Working PDP-11 with MSV11-PL, DLV11-J4, and DZV114. Currently $310.00
At least it's not entitled "L@@K! UBER-BUSTER L33T PUT3R".
Hopefully somebody will save this thing.
Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..."
-- BOFH #3
Jim wrote:
<< > What are you going to use the KayPro-10 for anyway in the 1999's ?
Allison Parent replied:
> Runs most of my Xasms, a few engineering models I use and makes a dandy
> terminal.
> I presume you really wanted that from the original author.
As mentioned when I started this thread, I have no direct experience with
CP/M based machines and am interested in checking out the territory, so to
speak ;>)
Jim wrote:
> I still have a Pakard Hell XT in my storage to figure out what to do with.
Allison replied:
> Sheesh, it's a computer, compute with it! REally use it for text
> processing where a gui is not the not setup. Install Minix and learn
> about OSs. >>
Right on, Allison! Seems to me you can learn _something_ potentially useful
>from just about any type of computer. It's also not hard to find some useful
function for a given piece of hardware. Someone dumped a 286 & 12" green
mono monitor at our store a few years back. Instead of throwing it out, I
spent a couple of afternoons patching together some C code, a few batch
files, and some other odds & ends and it's served us well as our cash
register ever since. It also cranks out our monthly state sales tax report,
and maintains our customer database. 52 MB hard drive, 24 MB free -- I
imagine we'll be using it every day for years to come.
Cost: $0.
I even have a couple of business apps (Tony Duell, don't gag ;>) which I run
on my Sinclair machines . . . just crank up the old imagination, Jim, and
surely you'll come up with some good use for that old "clunker."
Glen Goodwin
0/0
You wrote...
----->Almost all drives have an 'emergency retract' which is activated if
the
>power fails while the heads are loaded. Typically, this consists of a
>relay that drops out when the power fails that then connects a large
>capacitor, or more often a NiCd battery, to the voice coil. The head is
>rammed against the outer end stop, where it opens a microswitch,
>disconnecting the battery.
Yes, the power board does have a set of 3 nicads on it, and they are
definitely for retracting the heads in the event of a loss of AC power.
>Since this involves somewhat violent head movements, which are not good
>for the heads (or, indeed, for the positioner), many drives _don't_ use
>this to retract the heads on a normal unload. Instead they use the normal
>servo system. Certainly the DEC RK05 does this (I have just looked in the
>manual).
I haven't checked the schematics myself definitively, but, I heard from one
repair guy that it does not use the nicads for a normal unload, just for a
power fail unload.
>If it uses the servo system, first check the power supply voltages. Loss
>of one rail to the servo amplifier may mean the heads can move in one
>direction but not in the other. Then, insert a pack, spin up, with the
>covers removed. When the heads load, try to (gently) move them. They
>should appear to be locked over track 0 -- if the heads move slightly
>off-track, the servo system should pass a current through the voice coil
>to try to move them back. If there's a problem with the servo, you might
>find that the servo can move the heads towards the spindle (i.e.
>attmepting to force them away from the spindle has no effect) but that it
>can't move them away from the spindle (and thus if _you_ try to move them
>towards the spindle, it doesn't resist).
Now THAT's handy info. Thanks! I'll give that a shot tonight or tomorrow.
THANKS!
Jay West
-----Original Message-----
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
>These seemed to be the most common. However when ever asked my KayproII
>is an oddball. Apparently there lots of mods as mine has 2mb ramdisk,
>handyman roms and advent turborom plus the fron pannel from everyone I"ve
>spoken to is two HH drives vertical and acoording to some they should be
>horizontal.
Yes, I remember some aftermarket companies selling their own version of the
KayPro. I think I do remember one with vertical drives installed and
whatever else they did under the hood. There were a few that managed to get
four 1/2 height drives in there somehow.
I remember you either bought a KayPro and sent it to them or bought one they
had already modified.
I think most of the mods eventually became model changes by KayPro such as
the 1/2 height 360 K drives and a nifty little fold out rack on the bottom
to hold the machine at the proper angle. At first you were supposed to sit
the box on the back edge of the keyboard, but if it fell off while you were
reading or writing a disk, big problems.
What are you going to use the KayPro-10 for anyway in the 1999's ?
I still have a Pakard Hell XT in my storage to figure out what to do with.
Regards,
Jim
It's never wise to base a major buying decision on price alone--just ask a
Yugo owner
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
>As you say, things were changing fast. The 2X that I have came with both
>modem and Real Time Clock. IIRC, the RTC was a feature of the 10/84 also.
>
> - don
Yes, your 2X was (probably) originally a KayPro 4! The KayPro 4, now I
remember, originally added a modem and clock and more software (dBaseII I
think) to my cheaper original 2X. There was also a big thing being made
about the "inverse video" in 1984, which made it easier to read the WordStar
menus. I think the -84's all came with the new 360K double sided disc
drives. The -83 mostly had the 180K single sided drives.
Also, the 1984's were the first to come with WordStar and the other MicroPro
software bundled. In 1983, they shipped with PerfectWriter or something
like that. In July of 1984 I think I remember KayPro offered a KayPro 2,
with 2 double sided 360K disc drives and PerfectWriter software at about
$1200.
Then the 2x, which added the Micropro software bundle (WordStar, DataStar,
CalcStar, the graphics or inverse video display capabilities all for a song
at about $1500. ( The IBM PC was about $2500 then and you needed a display
and even had to purchase PC-Dos to go with it! KayPro was the first to
bundle operating systems and software with any machines I think. Well, the
Macintosh was out but it seemed to have severe memory shortage to me in
1984.)
After the KayPro 2x in the line came the Kaypro 4-84 with the 300 Bd modem
and dBaseII and something called a real time clock. That cost you close to
$2000 and I decided to leave it. For $500 I would type in my own dates until
I upgraded in 1993. I feel asleep once reading CompuServe at 300 Bd and
decided to let the modem go also. (I had to buy a Hayes 300 a year later
for $250 though.)
Next came the KayPro 10 with a 10 Mb hard drive that I couldn't fathom
anybody needing in 1984. Besides, a Kaypro 10 set you back almost $2800,
most of that increase was for that hard drive.
That line quickly was changed as the 4 became the 2x, and the 2x became the
2 again and they added a Kaypro 1 which only had one disk drive and a small
amount of software. They all were really the same machine as far as I could
tell. The differences only being the number of disk drives and the hard
drive in the -10.
I think the KayPro's were attractive to people like me as they came with all
the operating software you needed. It was all in one box that was real easy
to set up, and it worked. The price seemed cheap compared to what you got
with the IBM's and Apples.
At the time, if you bought an IBM or compatable, your second purchase was
the operating system, MS or PC DOS, and then WordStar for about $200.
I think KayPro's next machine was the 16, which was an IBM PC clone, in
about the middle of 1985.
I moved to Prescott, Arizona in 1988 and was surprised to see that there
were still KayPro dealers selling the cp/m KayPro's in small town America.
They had dissapeared off the shelves in Los Angeles long before then.
It is interesting to see how much you can remember about these things. I
might be wrong on some of it and would be interested in your corrections.
Regards,
Jim,
Any so-called material thing that you want is merely a symbol: you want it
not for itself, but because it will content your spirit for the
moment. --Mark Twain
If anyone is interested in copies of the following manuals please
contact me off list before the end of this week.
HP-71 Hardware IDS
HP-IL IDS volumes 1 and 2
Forth/Assembler IDS
Regards
_---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___-
Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue
<mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc>
Okay, remember that PBX? I may lose it today.
I dragged the thing in to work. But I forgot one minor thing:
They don't want it there.
So now, I have to move the thing out, and before I go home for the day.
Trying to convince my boss to let me keep it here is a lost cause.
My only two options are to get creative and find a way to save it fast,
or to pull the cards out (Those have mercury in them), save the doco, and
push it out by the dumpster & forgot I ever saw it. Obviously I'd hate
having to do that. But I can't take it home with me (My parents already
said no) and I can't get it back to SSI (The van I used before is no longer
available) and I'm asking for suggestions. I'd really hate having to know
that a perfectly good piece of gear is gonna have to be destroyed because
of a stupid mistake on my part.
Alternately: Anyone withing driving range of Peoria, IL want a PBX?
-------
Dear classic
Do you have any ideas about how I can find a replacement hard drive for a JTS
1.4 gig 3" hard drive for my EPS Technologies Apex 166 laptop. Both EPS and
JTS seem to be out of business.
David Searles
Jan133(a)aol.com
In a message dated 09/07/1999 1:20:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, donm(a)cts.com
writes:
> Given the choice, take the 10/84. It has somewhat improved graphics
> capability over the 10/83. Try to avoid the so-called U-ROM version,
> though. They were not the answer to a maiden's dreams as Kaypro hoped.
How can I identify the "U-ROM version?" What are it's problems?
Glen Goodwin
0/0
From: Wayne Smith <wsmith(a)gj.com>
>>> Do you need a K10-83 or a K10-84?
>
>>What is the difference in these two models? (83, 84 -- year of mfg.,
maybe??)
>
>I didn't see a direct answer to this. Does anyone know?
>
>
Truth is, as I remember buying a Kaypro in the Summer of 1984 in Los
Angeles, nobody did really know what the difference was :-) Yes, that is
1983 or 1984. The year of manufacture.
Things were changing fast. The Kaypro 84 added more graphics, (but you
still had basically none) a 25 line screen, which there was scant use for, a
double sided drive in the -10 and two of them in the 2, and more software,
DbII was added to the list, and the newer version of cp/m. 2.2G or
something. I think a 300 Bd modem was added to the -10 that year, but that
won't help you now :] Something about another serial port added around that
time I think also.
The true techies here know more than I. There was something about a better
ROM whatever, but that was mostly for the "graphics" as I remember and maybe
the double sided 360 k disk drives. Somebody was selling one aftermarket
anyway.
I think you would want to stay with the -84 model if you want to get some
work out of it.
If your interested, I bought the "Business Pack" in July of 1984 Which
included a remarked Brother daisy wheel printer and a KayPro 2X (2 double
sided 360k drives) no modem, (couldn't imagine what I would do with that)
all for only $1750. I thought it was the biggest bargain in the world
watching WordStar spell check and print out my reports. Saved me days of
work. I wore ear plugs while I printed out my work.
Hope that helps,
Jim,
???
~ <---- KayPro graphics
"You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his
tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand
this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they
receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."
-- Albert Einstein (When asked to describe radio)
