Once upon a time, I know I read a history of Osborne Computer Company
("Hypergrowth," by Adam Osborne and John Dvorak - I've got a copy around
here somewhere.) I remember distinctly that they were the hit of Computer
Faire in 1981, and went bankrupt in September of '83.
Thanks to my sharp-eyed wife, I now have an Osborne Vixen, the OCC-4.
The motherboard and copyright notice in the documentation are clearly
labeled 1984. I thought they'd already slipped beneath the waves by then.
Can someone enlighten me on the End of Osborne?
Thanks!
-- Bill Sheehan
On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:24:13 -0400, CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com
wrote:
>>You know, 20 years after I first put an IMSAI together I still reach in
>>them today to wiggle around the front panel and YIKES!!. I just never,
>>ever learn!
>>I never fried any hardware due to the 120VAC, just me. (Once a
>>screwdriver ended up in the wall.)
I've gotten pliers flung across the room; screwdrivers welded. Not
to mention that uncomfortable tingling feeling in my arm :-).
Rich
--------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Cini
Vice President
Congress Financial Corporation
1133 Avenue of the Americas
30th Floor
New York, NY 10036
212-545-4402 / 212-840-6259 (fax)
rcini(a)congressfinancial.com
>
> What I'm curious about is why these korean products must be "crap". It
> doesn't take much skill to make a case or to make and test a power
supply.
>
When you have an unskilled and underpaid workforce, using inferior
materials and processes, that's the ONLY kind of product you can produce.
>
> On the other hand, these crap cases are getting bought up like hot cakes
> because there's nothing better, and there's no reason to make them higher
> quality. That's modern c(r)apitalism for you...
>
There are better products available. It's just that most consumers can't
justify buying the more expensive products.
One of the problems in the computer industy is the pace of the technology
and the speed at which products depreciate. Because of this, computer
systems (PCs in particular) have become very short term investments.
How many people or companies believe their PCs will last for more than a
few years?
Would you spend $400 for a case and PS that's powering a 386? I certainly
wouldn't. Unless of course it is critical to my business or my welfare.
Now a harder question. Would you spend $400 for a case and PS that's
powering a new Zeon 550? I wouldn't... Just remember, todays Zeon 550 is
tomorrows 386.
In contrast, the opposite thing is happening in the automobile industry.
People are realizing that a car is a long term investment and the higher
quality (price) is easily justified. There's a lot more $40,000 cars being
sold than $7,000 cars.
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
Does anyone have any sort of info on this thing? I just picked one up at a
garage sale for $1. The guy I bought it from had no info about it. He said
it was in the basement of his house when he bought the house...
The case is about 6" high by 15" wide. It has a 1.2 MB 5.25" floppy and a
ST-225 HD in it. It has a 286-10 CPU in it, but when "turbo" (it's software
controlled - "boost.exe" makes the computer beep then lights a green LED on
the front)is on, it clocks at 13.5 MHz (QADiagnostics). There is a 3.5" bay
that's the same height as a 5.25" floppy (anyone have a drive that'll fit in
here?), and the three LED's (green, red, green - power, HD, turbo) aren't
labeled. The cover over the HD bay is odd, too. It's frosted. Whenever
the computer's on, the green HD light can be seen through it, sort of like
the old Olivetti had.
The cards that it has are a standard MFM controller (although in a
non-standard place - it's set back About 1" from the back of the case, and
about 1" to the right of the card cage, and the ''tail" on the card's
mounting bracket goes through a hole in the motherboard)/ There's also a
standard CGA/composite video card, and an ARCnet LANcard. It has a BNC coax
connector on it.
As my luck would have it, though the "arcnet" directory was empty. All the
directories were empty but the DOS directory, and they all appear to have
hidden files, because I can't remove them.
The case is also made from a surprisingly heavy gauge of steel. All the
metal is about 1/32" thick, and it weighs about as much as a 5170 AT.
Anyone have any info on this? what it was mainly used for? Maybe a
keyboard to match? :)
ThAnX,
///--->>>
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
Back in the '70's, and maybe into the early '80's, the rule of thumb was to
multiply manufacturing cost by 4 to estimate the minimum retail price of a
piece of electronic gear. I don't know how to estimate the cost of the
components any better than has already been done here, but I would imagine
that Todd Fischer is collecting orders as a means of estimating the
potential for his product along with paying for tooling and other
non-recurring costs.
I'm relieved that his product is, as yet, vaporware, because I personally
don't see the benefit in having a 22-slot mainframe with a power supply of
the sort describe on the IMSAI web site, just as I'm having trouble with the
notion that people would pay $1k for a box with a front panel and little
else. Based on the notion that SOME people will, I don't see his price as
excessive for what it might be. I do have the sense that the WHAT is still
TBD.
There's no shortage of S-100 mainframes from what I've seen. I see three or
four every year for about $25, which nearly compensates the consignee for
the space they take up. I have about six which I 'd happily give up. That
would still leave me plenty.
The original notion I remember seeing was to have the IMSAI "look" wedded to
a current generation Pentium class processor. I don't see a niche for that,
however.
All we can do is wait and hope Todd Fischer comes to what more of would
consider to be his senses and reshapes his intended product. It is HIS,
though . . .
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: imsal 2
>> And, could the "mainframe" actually cost that much?? Switches:
>>22@$5=$110. PS=$50. Backplane=$75. Sheetmetal=$250. FP=$100. Maybe I have
a
>>warped idea of what this stuff costs, but I was expecting a lower number.
>
>Multiply the above numbers by a factors of 1.5 or so, and you're about
>in the right ballpark (though the real factor is much closer to 4 for
>the power supply - $50 won't buy anything but a way-too-dinky transformer.)
>I did a similar calculation when deciding whether I could sell my "TIMSAI"
>as a commercial product, and came up with a street price for it (with
>very similar production costs) that would have to be close to $2000-$3000
to
>justify the effort.
>
>--
> Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
> Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
> 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
> Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
OK, since I'm trying to cover all bases trying to find an answer I guess
I'd best send a message to the list.
I'm trying to install Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP package on a mutant PDP-11/73
with a DEQNA ethernet controller (though have tried a DELQA). However, I
seem to be stuck, and I can't figure out what the error code I'm getting
is. Depending on how I start it, I get one of the following two error
codes:
Board initialization failed!. Error code=3
netinit() failed
Board initialization failed!. Error code=11
netinit() failed
Are the error codes documented anywhere? I've tried going through some of
the source without any luck. I'm at a loss here as I know for a fact that
the DEQNA, transceiver and network cableing are all good.
Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
-----Original Message-----
From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: imsai 2
>> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:44:06 -0600
>> Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
>> From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com>
>> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>> Subject: Re: imsai 2
>> X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>
>> Tony, we have stores like that too, such as "CompUSA" or Circuit City.
Even
>> though their prices are often outrageously high for the "add-ons" such as
>> mice or cables, their system prices are normally in line with other
stores.
>> They have a replacement parts/upgrade components counter where things
like
>> CPU fans, video boards, etc. are sold, but you have to bring your
>> information with you. What you get there is not reliable.
>
>Those "upgrades" and loose boards on display are generic type no
>different from no-brands except for branded ones upgrade boxes.
>
>>
>> The thing that's insulting is that the prices of these items vary so
wildly
>> that one dares not to rely on being able to afford even a simple add-on
>> without first knocking over the liquor store down the street.
>
>Not how I shop. I pick out a specific brand and few models then shop
>around with that limited specifics for good price and warrenty.
>Example Asus MEL-M, one shop has it for 150 CDN 1 yr. Other shop
>has it for few dollars less and 1 year manufacter plus 2yr extra.
>So on. Beauiful board and works well on linux and winblows 95 upgrade
>ver after patched the chipset driver into winblows. :-) I own 3
>other boards by Asus. To others, sorry to hear about sucker
>problems. I think it's the wholesaler thing passing sick ones onto
>unsuspecting users. Happened on 2 occasions, once w/ asus from a
>little known vendor (sick parallel port), and once with tyan board
>from a vendor that poofed right afterwards who we contacted refused
>to resolve this problems. Their claims tested it it's fine! BULL!
>
I have a particular problem with ASUS, dating back to their '486 days which
removed them forever from my list. Whats more, their motherboards without
processor cost more than the ones I have used for some time with. I've
never seen anyone willing and able (some are willing, but not many) to
enforce the warranty.
>
>> I saw an ad a couple of days ago while shopping for motherboards, and
found
>> a "bare bones" system consisting of a motherboard, CPU (300 MHz K6)
>> enclosure, floppy drive, and power supply, for $100. This was nationally
>Snip!
>
>That barebone thing, I smell rat, avoid!
>
... and what, exactly, is wrong with the "barebone thing" pray tell? Last
time I bought barebones systems I got enough for a whole law firm. The
motherboards have been replaced for upgrades, but the boxes, drives,
keyboards, etc, are still in place.
>
>> Now, in today's high-volume, fast-paced market, I doubt there's any need
for
>> one to worry about the power supply wearing out before his hardware
becomes
>> obsolete. (These days that's when you can't even give it away any more
or
>> about a year, whichever comes first.) The cheapo fans and PSU's we've
been
>> kicking around generally last longer than that, and those fellows who
have
>
>Bzzt! I have seen 2~4 generation upgrades done in same old cases
>so can't be stated simply. Some even started out as 386 box even
>smattering of XT or 286 vinage! All those boards that came out of
>them are perfectly functional and resold on cosignment as used parts
>for other users on very small budget to upgrade their even older
>machines. Average age for a case after 4th upgrade is around 6 years
>old.
>
People in an office don't want the same old PC (remember we're looking at
the outside) they've had for more than a year.
>
>I have the cute 286 case holding 16X cdrom, Pentium 100, 'T2P4 etc
>etc and it still bears the label '286' for fun to pick on people who
>saw that case 'running' winblows. :-) Took me long time to find
>that style I liked.
>
>Wizard.
>
>> Dick
>
I have extra copies of the following available.
These are all probably for a Pro 350, if there is
any machine dependency, and are all circa version
2.0 of P/OS. The software for the last version
(3.2) is available at ftp.update.uu.se.
Hard Disk System
For Beginners
User's Guide
User's Guide Supplement
Command Language User's Guide
PRO/Sight User's Guide
A few miscellaneous "Installation Manuals" for options.
If any is interested, let me know. I'll send these to
anyone who'll pay postage plus a small packaging fee,
total to be determined, but probably not more than $10.
Dave
<Of course small transformers such as in some wall warts would be a pain!
<-Dave
Well I've done far smaller. Like those .5"x.4" miniature audio cores.
those are a pain as you have to find the smallest guage that will give the
ampere/turns and core flux plus fit!
Very much on topic item!
Sent off EMAIL to IMSAI.NET... As most know I've been looking for a manual
for my IMP-48 8048 board. Got a really nice response. Seems they didn't sell
many, like maybe some 300 of them and that is why they are so scarce(as are
the Docs). Oh and I'm not selling it, send gold bullion directly too... ;)
Allison
In a message dated 08/19/1999 11:37:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
edick(a)idcomm.com writes:
> ... and what, exactly, is wrong with the "barebone thing" pray tell? Last
> time I bought barebones systems I got enough for a whole law firm. The
> motherboards have been replaced for upgrades, but the boxes, drives,
> keyboards, etc, are still in place.
You were very lucky.
What is wrong is that many cutthroat operators put these "barebones" systems
together with faulty cpus/motherboards . . . since you're going to take it
home and add some other components, if you have a problem with the system
it's easy for the seller to blame any problems on components you didn't buy
>from him or her:
"The barebones system you sold me crashes all the time."
"Let me see it . . . oh, you have these other parts in it . . . that's the
problem."
"But they're standard parts, and if you check them out you'll see they're
properly installed."
"Sorry, those parts are not compatible with the high-quality components in
the system you bought from us. And that crummy software you installed is
bound to cause problems. But we'll be glad to check it out for $$$ per hour."
This is one of the oldest cons in the world: Sell something the buyer has to
modify in order to use, then shift responsibility onto the buyer by blaming
problems on buyer modifications. Then charge them out the ass.
Glen Goodwin
0/0
