test-drb August 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

161 participants
565 discussions

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> ...I have yet to hear even a rumour of a 4054 surviving... > > Well, I can do better than just a rumour... Go here: > > http://www.computergarage.org/Garage/jcgm-mic.shtml > > and scroll down toward the bottom of the page... (things are fairly > alphabetical) > > Then the things that came with it that are not shown yet... Plotter, > printer, docs, tape libraries, ROM cartridges, etc... > > And by the way... It runs! B^} You lucky beggar! Hey! Didn't I say that when you announced the find? My memory must be going. Get the technical manuals from Tek - "Technical Data" and "Parts List and Schematics". Expensive - expect to pay $300 the pair - but worth it. Invaluable for repairs, and I have had to do several of those since I got my machine (mostly PSU failures). I can get you part numbers for the manuals if this will help. 4054A is the nicest of the 4050 series. 4054 has the large screen and A signifies faster GPIB and extended BASIC... Philip.

26 years

Tektronix 4051 or 4052

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

A week or two ago, Monty McGraw wrote: > I bought a Tek4051 while in the USAF in 1978. I developed several programs > using the 4051 for data collection and reduction. > > I would like to find one, probably for the nostalgia, I still have the my > old program listings. > > I saw the recent thread on the EXEC command, I figured out the EXEC command > and wrote a couple of 6800 assembly language programs (play music, dump the > ROMs to the printer, etc). As I recall the format of the command was EXEC > A$, where the string was typically read from the tape as a single file. Monty, you wonderful person! I will have to try this on my 4052. For this, if I ever find a 4054, you will get first refusal on my 4052 :-) Joe Rigdon had written: >> Good Luck! I only know of two 4051s and only one 4052. I have one of >>the >>4051s. None of them are for sale. Are you looking for one to collect or >>what? They are definitely rare. I know of two of each, the other 4052 being in the Dutch Computer Museum, but I heard rumours at VCF last year that another 4052 had been sold recently - I hope it was to a collector who will take care of it. I have yet to hear even a rumour of a 4054 surviving... Philip.

26 years

Modcomp Classic news

by hansp＠digiweb.com

Well my request for info on the Modcomp Classis did not result in much! One resonse to a usenet post netted someone who still runs one. Anyways, the guy that gave us the Modcomp found the complete maintenance doc set! So now I have the schematics, theroy of operation manuals, diagnostoic manuals - the works. One happy camper here is going to bring up that classic computer real soon now.... Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc>

26 years

[OT] Used Exabyte wanted

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I'd like to pick up a used Exabyte 85xx 8mm SCSI tape drive at a good price. An 8505 would be great, a 8500 would be OK, a robo-library would be nice at a nice price. I'd rather buy from someone I "know" than from eBay. - John

26 years

PL/I

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

IBM still offers PL/I programming tools: http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=18253… Just thought it was interesting. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/17/99]

26 years

semantics (was Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc))

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> Just to add grist for the mill, I'd point out that people now are, perhaps >> erroneously, calling recorded program material for your stereo and your TV >> 'software' as well. Now, I would call a CD or a CDROM firmware, since you >> can't really change it, but who's splitting hairs . . . > > Ah, the question of when is software software. If you want to get > really precise, I would argue that it is "stored data" when it is on > the CDROM. It does not become software until it is relocated and > available for execution in the processors address space. If you can > step a program counter (or instruction pointer or whatever you call it > on a particular architecture) across it, then it is either software or > firmware. Otherwise: If it is on paper, it is a "listing". If it is > on paper tape, it is a "dump". Etc. Of course, this opens up the > question of just what are interpreted language and p-code programs? Definitely software. Just because the program counter that steps through the code is in fact a variable in a program, rather than a register on a chip, doesn't make the code any less software. In fact, a good interpreter will probably have the program counter in a processor register if the processor has enough of these. FWIW, I would call a cd-rom a storage medium (everyone who says "a storage media" go and wash your mouths out). The code that is stored on it is software if it represents instructions for a computer. I would include embedded data (like messages the program might print) to be part of the "software", even though (you hope) they are not stepped through by the program counter. I'm not sure where you draw the line on this one - is a separate message file (a man file, for example) still software? A ROM chip is hardware. The program in it is software. Because it is stored in a ROM chip it is _also_ firmware. (IMHO). Philip.

26 years

imsai 2

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 08/18/1999 10:20:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick(a)idcomm.com writes: > The unfortunate fact, Tony, is that here in the U.S, because people are > accustomed to paying <$25 for a case with power supply (250 Watts is the > rating) including shipping, it's hard to get vendors to stock replacement > fans of any sort, let alone good and quiet ones. Man, that's a fact. Our wholesaler sells cases with (crap) 250 watt power supplies for US$20, 250 watt (crap) power supplies by themselves for $19, and (crap) replacement fans for $15. Can anyone provide a clue as to why this is so? Basic economics suggests that it costs a *lot* more to produce a case w/psu than a psu alone -- likewise for the psu vs. the fan . . . Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years

imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's those hard drives that cause those common PSU failures! If you plug them in while the PSU is running, you'll see why someone made the remark that switchmode power supplies don't like switching loads. I know . . . I do it too, but it's one of the most frequently ignored cautions. Dick -----Original Message----- From: LordTyran <a2k(a)one.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 7:27 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> >The typical peecee PSU that you usually see in consumer stuff is not >> >that good. More like it's rated 180W max load constaniuous or so >> >for a typical 200W PSU. > >If you're lucky. I just bought (and returned) a POS PC with a 75 watt >(rated) PSU. No joke. I like to put a nice, 300W PSU in all the computers >that I build beacuse they're really not the much more expensive... and a >lot cheaper than replacing a lot of hard drives.. > >Kevin >

26 years

imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

-----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 9:20 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:54:21 -0600 >> Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >> From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >> Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >> >Ship! > >> WHile I've only had about half a dozen motherboards die over the years, I've >> got a 55-gal drumful of dead power supplies, on most of which the fan is >> what failed. In many cases, the fan fails and then the supply gets hot and >> dies. > >Snip! > >The typical peecee PSU that you usually see in consumer stuff is not >that good. More like it's rated 180W max load constaniuous or so >for a typical 200W PSU. >If one have a Astec, SPI any decent quality make with ball bearing >fan, count on it that it will keep working and working and fewer >problems, mystery rebootings etc. > So what does one of these PSU's with a fan that lasts cost? > >We also have seen one or two blow out most of guts in peecee by a bad >quality PSU made by Evermax model. And few ATX PSUs in row that it >acted like reset button that resets machine by simply push on that >bottom pan where circuit board is. Those PSUs were only few months >old. (!!) This one I think was also by Enermax or one other I >forgot. Most of old out of warrenty PSUs were caught early with >gummed or worn out fans and we simply replaced it with sunon ball >bearing fan type. And on other items we solved this problems by only >selling ONE BRAND, Aceropen for cases and cdrom drives. Seems that >two items Acer shines well. > >That 55 gal drum of that PSUs, I bet all were sleeve bearing fans and >low quality overall. Also capacitors all dried up in some, blown >switchers, diode network. Blown out main transformer is thankfully >rare. > > Well . . . let's see . . . fan = $40 in q1, power supply including fan = $33 in q1. . . cabinet, including power supply and fan = $22 in q1 . . . not hard to figure out which they were . . . and they're marked 230 or 250 watts, BTW. > >Wizard

26 years

Crapitalism (was No Good Stuff)

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 08/19/1999 12:48:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com writes: > Our wholesaler sells cases with (crap) 250 watt power > >supplies for US$20, 250 watt (crap) power supplies by themselves for $19, > and > >(crap) replacement fans for $15. > > I believe the technical term for this would be crapitalism. Thanks for the wonderful term. I'm hereby stealing it, er, adding it to my vocabulary. > >Can anyone provide a clue as to why this is so? Basic economics suggests > >that it costs a *lot* more to produce a case w/psu than a psu alone -- > >likewise for the psu vs. the fan . . . > > People who try to sell good fans have to charge $35 - $40 for them. You and > I might say, "Gee, that's a damn nice fan, here's your $35." but 90% of the > people walk in and say "Hey man! Why are you tryin to rip me off with this > fan price, I can buy a whole case including a fan for that price!" To which > your only response, "Go buy it then and get out of my shop!" Guess what. > You won't sell enough to stay in business. Its called crapitalism. We sell cheap stuff for the chintzers and high quality items for our more discriminating customers. When someone assumes that we are a rip-off outfit because we sell some expensive (translate: high-quality) items I have no problem telling them to go to Circuit City. But it's still frustrating trying to convince some knucklehead that the higher quality component will probably last longer than *they* will . . . > The weird thing is that sometimes good stuff comes through the pipe. Fry's > had an $18/case deal that turned out to have a really nice PSU and case > inside. Didn't last though :-(. Yeah, we get lucky once in a while, too . . . Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years

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test-drb August 1999