test-drb August 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

161 participants
565 discussions

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I dragged some extensions out and plugged into it, they work fine. I can bounce inside calls around pretty easily. The extensions appear to have been numbered in an arbitrary order though. I'm gonna read the DLP books and see if I can change that without the MAAP box. Also, as for the 6 loops on the console - That's 6 lines for the console itself. The console can have 6 conversations going on it at the same time. The PBX seems to be able to switch as many calls as you have outside lines for. It does use relays, if I opened the front cover and dialed I could hear it click as it completed the call. I also let it sit and run for about 5 hours while we played a card game upstairs and it worked fine after running awhile. (But after about 10 minutes I did get a minor warning because the CO wasn't talking to me, which makes sense...) The next fun things to do are reprogramming the system to some sane values AFA line numbering and the outgoing lines, then finding a way to back up the OS tape, and the trying to connect it to the world. -------

25 years, 4 months

Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc)

by edick＠idcomm.com

RIGHT! You have removable hard drives, as I do, and probably have non-removable PROMs (FLASH-types) as well. Now, what to we call this stuff? Back to my original comment about semantics, other parts of the electronics industry and other industries, are calling the content of CD's and tapes "software" as more and more similarity becomes apparent to the public. Additionally, the legal system has begun to see them in the same way. The devices which define our computers are becoming defined more and more by what we used to call software, though now perhaps we should call it firmware, and yet the simple boundaries I once understood to support these definitions now have become blurred by the movement of what used to be firmware into volatile media and of what used to be "software" into non-volatile media, e.g. the PCMCIA Flash-disks I mentioned. I don't think we'll have to wait long for a situation to arise, in which one links to a site on the web, is fed a download of configuration data which defines how the system on which one's running is to be defined, then reads the code which will be executed on the specifically configured "hardware" environment. Instead of the hardware defining how the software must be configured, the software will define the way in which the hardware addresses its requirements. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 6:08 AM Subject: RE: Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc) >> > > If you said that that computer had "hardware software" I would have >> > > to kill you ;-) >> > Firmware? >> Definitely firmware. You can grab it and remove it. It is >> plugged in. > >Well, I own a removable harddisk (plugged in) - >I can grap it and remove it - >so Win98 is firmware ? > >As we might see, the terms are not that fixed as >we would loke it (also a reason why I hate all >this denglish tems - already fuzy terms from a >foreign language used without knowledge of their >orgin nor any concept for genuine meaning :( ). > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist.

25 years, 4 months

imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

As was stated earlier, I must have been really lucky, because I go down to the lawfirm and upgrade their computers, usually every 18 months or so, usually in lots of 50. I've had disk drive problems, but those went away when WD stopped shipping their 31200 drives. Of the 18 I had there, after a year, the oldest had been replaced 4 times under warranty and the newest was on its 8th incarnation. That wasn't part of the "bare-bones" package. It was my first, and last, experience with LAN wiring, and I became pretty expert in maintaing Netware servers and installing Windows95. Their power supplies have failed at a less-than average rate, and the only problems have been with the monitors, which I didn't provide, though that's also been pretty minor. I don't normally do this sort of thing, but my lawyer, like other folks, knew I work in the computer-related electronics side of things, and was frustrated with his luck with the guys who specialize in outfitting businesses. Now that my legal problems have gone away, and they don't very badly want to pay my hourly rate, someone else is doing that stuff for them. Dick -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 11:11 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:12:24 EDT >> Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >> From: Glenatacme(a)aol.com >> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >> Subject: Re: imsai 2 > >> In a message dated 08/19/1999 11:37:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >> edick(a)idcomm.com writes: >> >> > ... and what, exactly, is wrong with the "barebone thing" pray tell? Last >> > time I bought barebones systems I got enough for a whole law firm. The >> > motherboards have been replaced for upgrades, but the boxes, drives, >> > keyboards, etc, are still in place. >> >> You were very lucky. > >Did number of parts belly up or get troublemaker big time and you had >to make lot of runs to that law business? > >True to every situation that we saw or heard about businesses and >buyers who dealt with a untruthworthy resellers / wholesalers. When >that happens and that place will tell themselves "We had that so much >troubles, that we'll blacklist that shop that barebones came from >there and buy everywhere else." And time goes by and that shop >finally finds out why you got blacklisted by rumor, from there people >spreads the reputation around. Reason is that shop didn't act in time >when problems crops up and move on to truthworthy sources for >computer stuff. Some worst ones will "swap" one for another equally >bad parts, some to be praised did something right and paid terrible >price to fix the troubles. > >> What is wrong is that many cutthroat operators put these "barebones" systems >> together with faulty cpus/motherboards . . . since you're going to take it >> home and add some other components, if you have a problem with the system >> it's easy for the seller to blame any problems on components you didn't buy >> from him or her: >> >> "The barebones system you sold me crashes all the time." >> >> "Let me see it . . . oh, you have these other parts in it . . . that's the >> problem." >> >> "But they're standard parts, and if you check them out you'll see they're >> properly installed." >> >> "Sorry, those parts are not compatible with the high-quality components in >> the system you bought from us. And that crummy software you installed is >> bound to cause problems. But we'll be glad to check it out for $$$ per hour." >> >> This is one of the oldest cons in the world: Sell something the buyer has to >> modify in order to use, then shift responsibility onto the buyer by blaming >> problems on buyer modifications. Then charge them out the ass. > >Exactly what happened with that tyan board flakiness and Asus >board parallel thing from these worthless resellers. They wanted the >money and gave the buyer the old bricks. > >Saw remarked CPUs for real >with my eyes. Looks like real thing but serial #'s didn't jibe with >original cpu maker's records with this actual markings. That was >from shop A. Tipoff: thickness when mounting heatsink to it. > >This story; here is it and this is true story with all identifiers >mangled. A instutition with very limited $ bought a machine from a >Shop A loaded with junk and old parts as new computer (major >illegal). Utterly unreliable and parts is of clones of clones >of mystious origin type like that russian wooden dolls. That machine >came in with unhappy instutition's owner to trustworthy Shop B. >Shop B smelled rat then made few calls around to major makers like >AMI bios to verify key items etc and police came in to pick up that >bits. Shop B footed the cost and trouble to rebuild a good machine >to even unhappy instutition owner who lost $ on that junk who wished >they didn't blown their savings on. > >Hope anyone don't get caught in between like this especially to any >resellers and owners. One other shady shop was ground into dirt and >new management but the sigma still from that past still lingers even >that reformed shop did ok years later. > >> >> Glen Goodwin >> 0/0 > >Wizard

25 years, 4 months

imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

Boy! I guess I WAS lucky. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Glenatacme(a)aol.com <Glenatacme(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 10:13 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >In a message dated 08/19/1999 11:37:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >edick(a)idcomm.com writes: > >> ... and what, exactly, is wrong with the "barebone thing" pray tell? Last >> time I bought barebones systems I got enough for a whole law firm. The >> motherboards have been replaced for upgrades, but the boxes, drives, >> keyboards, etc, are still in place. > >You were very lucky. > >What is wrong is that many cutthroat operators put these "barebones" systems >together with faulty cpus/motherboards . . . since you're going to take it >home and add some other components, if you have a problem with the system >it's easy for the seller to blame any problems on components you didn't buy >from him or her: > >"The barebones system you sold me crashes all the time." > >"Let me see it . . . oh, you have these other parts in it . . . that's the >problem." > >"But they're standard parts, and if you check them out you'll see they're >properly installed." > >"Sorry, those parts are not compatible with the high-quality components in >the system you bought from us. And that crummy software you installed is >bound to cause problems. But we'll be glad to check it out for $$$ per hour." > >This is one of the oldest cons in the world: Sell something the buyer has to >modify in order to use, then shift responsibility onto the buyer by blaming >problems on buyer modifications. Then charge them out the ass. > >Glen Goodwin >0/0

25 years, 4 months

Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc)

by mranalog＠home.com

Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:37:55 Bill Sudbrink said: >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-08/16/026l-081699-idx.html > >Fortunately, the article does not use that horrid phrase: > >"Software Program" > >AAARRRGGG!!! > >Why don't we get in the automobile car and drive ride to the >financial institution bank. There we can get some cash currency Bill, would you not call this an example of a hardware program? http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog/analogs2.jpg I would not feel comfortable saying that this computer is running software. In fact it's wired to calculate and graphically display the trajectory of a ball after it's dropped from a certain height, and bounces on the ground. In practice, the program had a bug in it or a computing element was not functioning right, because when the program ran it would crash just after the first bounce. Probably had to do with the acceleration or velocity changing to the negative direction. If the function of something can be changed, whether the change is in the sequence of bits recorded on a diskette, or the pivot point in a set of linkages, I would say that you are changing the programming of that machine. But that's just my perspective and opinion. Regards, --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ====================================================

25 years, 4 months

About to acquire an IBM 5360...

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Friday, August 20, 1999 7:23 AM, Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com [SMTP:Philip.Belben@pgen.com] wrote: > > > >> Finally, as I can seldom resist saying, the 5340 and 5360 have the > >> nicest floppy drive I've ever met. Twenty-three disks all in it at > >> once... > > > > So I have this carthridge I liberated from an abandoned 5360 that holds > > about 10 8" floppies. Does this get loaded into this 23-disk floppy > > drive? > > > Easy. You put the whole cartridge in. The drive takes two cartridges and three > loose disks. I seem to recall that the OS accepted designations for either > cartridge, both cartridges, any single disk, or all three single disks, and > there may have been a way of specifying a single disk within a cartridge (I can > look this up at home). > I don't remember the designations but, the larger (washing machine size) machines had the multidisk floppy drives. According to the documentation, you can specify a particular floppy in the carosel. Although, I don't recall the exact syntax. My system is the size of a 2-drawer file cabinet and weighs about 150 lbs (70KG for the rest of the world). Unfortunately, it does not have casters making it a PITA to move. It has a single 8" floppy that holds around 1MB of data. The drive seems pretty fast in relation to the rest of the machine. There are four twinax and four DB25 connectors on the rear. I have the console and printer hooked up to the first twinax connector and it works just fine. I got a modem and cables with the system but, haven't hooked it up. The cable has a DB25 connector so, it obviously plugs into one of the other ports. Don't know for sure but, I'm assuming they are normal RS232 connections? IMHO, this is one ugly OS! Later, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

25 years, 4 months

M7865 question.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>It reads 'Unibus 2 word out' on the back, and the DEC module field guide >doesn't provide with additional information. > >What is it used for ? It's a DR11-M, basically a 32-bit-wide parallel output port. It's complement is the DR11-L, a 32-bit-wide parallel input port. Compare these with the rest of the DR11-* series, which are generally both input *and* output. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

25 years, 4 months

About to acquire an IBM 5360...

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> Finally, as I can seldom resist saying, the 5340 and 5360 have the >> nicest floppy drive I've ever met. Twenty-three disks all in it at >> once... > > So I have this carthridge I liberated from an abandoned 5360 that holds > about 10 8" floppies. Does this get loaded into this 23-disk floppy > drive? Easy. You put the whole cartridge in. The drive takes two cartridges and three loose disks. I seem to recall that the OS accepted designations for either cartridge, both cartridges, any single disk, or all three single disks, and there may have been a way of specifying a single disk within a cartridge (I can look this up at home). In all cases except a single disk specified, when the machine got to the end of a disk, it would spit the disk back out into the cartridge (or disk slot), move the disk carriage up one space, and suck another disk into its innards to read or write it. A sort of jukebox mechanism, I suppose. I also recall it was pretty speedy, something like 4 cylinders a second, 20 seconds to read or write a whole diskette. Philip.

25 years, 4 months

Osborne History

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I don't know the exact connection, but there was an Osborne company with the same name and logo in Australia till recently. They seemed to have appeared about 1988 and were "rescued" and renamed by Gateway a few years back. I suspect it was just a case of the name and logo of the original company being sold. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 20 August 1999 20:10 Subject: Re: Osborne History >On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Bill Sheehan wrote: > >> Once upon a time, I know I read a history of Osborne Computer Company >> ("Hypergrowth," by Adam Osborne and John Dvorak - I've got a copy around >> here somewhere.) I remember distinctly that they were the hit of Computer >> Faire in 1981, and went bankrupt in September of '83. >> >> Thanks to my sharp-eyed wife, I now have an Osborne Vixen, the OCC-4. >> The motherboard and copyright notice in the documentation are clearly >> labeled 1984. I thought they'd already slipped beneath the waves by then. >> >> Can someone enlighten me on the End of Osborne? > >I think they actually lasted until about 1986. Their last ditch effort >was the Osborne III, which was simply a re-branded Morrow Pivot Portable >(aka the Zenith Z-{somesuchmodel}). > >Surprised me too. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/17/99] >

25 years, 4 months

About to acquire an IBM 5360...

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Chris, Joe and Steve between them managed to say: >> > I have an opprotunity to get an IBM 5360 (looks like a System/36 to >> >me) with a 5224 printer (heavy beast!) and a 5291-2 monochrome display. >> >Does anyone have any information on this, like how I can determine the >> >amount of DASD in it, how much RAM, and what I can do with it? [...] > There seem to be a BUNCH of variants of the 536X systems so it's hard to > predict what's gonna be inside. I think mine is an early example because it > will only support drives up to 60MB each. Currently, it has a 60MB and a > 30MB drive installed. I think some of the later models had drives in the > 1GB range but, I'm not positive of that. 5360 is the physically biggest system/36 - the size of a system/34 (5340). My experience is more with system/34 than system/36, but 60MB per drive sounds even lower than we had on our s/34 - must be a very early s/36 To return to Chris's question, I seem to recall some information appearing on the screen during boot. I think the terminal must be set to address 0 (or possibly 1 if 0 isn't valid) and stuck on the lowest-numbered twinax chain. It then will automatically be the console, and will display all this junk. FWIW our system/34 had 224K bytes of RAM of which one 2K block had died. Of disk space I think it had 256MB, but I can't remember if this was four drives or six. Big things with multiple platters, anyway. Finally, as I can seldom resist saying, the 5340 and 5360 have the nicest floppy drive I've ever met. Twenty-three disks all in it at once... Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk **********************************************************************

25 years, 4 months

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test-drb August 1999