Hello Tony:
In a message dated 6/30/99 8:32:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
> Well, the PERQ was a sideline of the main development, it's true. But
> yes, alas....
>
> Of course a PERQ is (IMHO) a lot more pleasant to use and a lot more
> stable than some modern OSes I could name...
I _will_ name them -- I work with Windows 9x every day, and it's a horrible
travesty, a poor excuse for an operating system. It saddens me to see that
people accept this crap. I get better error report codes from my ZX81.
"Illegal operation," indeed!
> But for graphics operations, it's painful. You start in sync. After that
> you have to count every microcycle so that you know exactly when a memory
> address or control word has to be generated. There is no synchronisation
> logic here. ]
Whew! And I thought counting Z80 t-states was bad . . .
> I've long been of the belief
> that software developers should be forced to use a machine at least one
> 'generation' behind that in normal use at the time. If their code is
> useable on that, it should be useable on the public's machines :-)
Right on! Those clowns in Redmond are using 550 MHz P-IIIs with 256 MB RAM,
you can count on it! Ever try loading Win 95 on a 25 MHz 386 with a 17 ms
hard drive and 4 MB RAM?
> I think the PC would have hit the workplace anyway, and
> most of the mainstream applications would be much the same.
Without a doubt.
> I don't want to belittle the cheap home computers and their place in
> computer history. But equally I don't want other machines to be forgotten
> either.
Likewise.
> In other words the local-ish second-hand computer shop tries to sell that
> at that price. Mind you their prices are a little strange - CBM 64 :
> \pounds 25.00. CBM P500 : \pounds 10.00. BBC micro : \pounds 1.00. Go
figure.
Why do the Brits hate the BBC Micro?
> However _now_ you have a lot more choices :
>
> 'Modern PC, running 'standard' applications'. Not that education _about
> computers.
Breaks my heart every day to see a 200+ MHz PC turned into a limping dog by
what is represented to the unsuspecting public as a "multitasking operating
system." I'll never again do any major programming on a PC, unless the OS is
non-Windows or I am completely destitute.
> 'Early 80's home micro'. As educational as ever. Yes, you can still learn
> a lot packing progams into 1K or whatever.
I learn from my ZX81 & 2068 every week.
> '1970s Minicomputer/Workstation'. Again as educational as ever. The point
> is, these machines are now affordable. You can have a real PDP8 on your
desk.
Now, I have no -- none -- experience with anything bigger than a PC, but IIRC
C & Unix were developed on a PDP-8 (or was it an 11???). I _am_ a C fanatic
so these have some historical interest for me. Can you really have one on a
desktop? Is the CPU smaller than a Toyota? Are 8" floppies still available?
Please advise, as this may be my next foray into collecting, if I can find
one and move it without a forklift . . .
A newbie collector thanks you very much for your help,
Glen Goodwin
0/0
P.S.: Isn't it rather sad that a micro-maker (Compaq) wound up buying DEC
_and_ Tandem?
In a message dated 6/30/99 7:34:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, elvey(a)hal.com
writes:
> I doubt these people are just buying these things
> to spray paint them, green and red, to use as lawn ornaments.
Wow! Sounds to me like the perfect application for a C64 ;>)
Glen Goodwin
0/0
In terms of pure cool, and collectability, I always felt
that the DG AViiON would be a great addition to any collection.
Cool Points:
1. The ultimate Orphan. One of a small handfull of machines
to use Moto's 88000 CPU chipset.
2. DG's been encouraging its customers to 'upgrade' to their
newer Intel offerings, so 'obsolete' hardware can be had
fairly cheap.
3. Runs DG/UX (subspecies of UNIX). Can't get much cooler
than that.
4. Came in double, and quad CPU configurations.
Mondo cool.
Caveats:
1. Make sure you get the software with it, as replacements
are hard to come by, and ludicrously expensive.
2. Make sure you get the keyboards, mice, crt, etc. These were
unique to the AViiON, IIRC.
3. No free operating system available for it (no LINUX or *BSD).
Bummer.
Just my $.02.
Jeff
On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:51:46 +0100 "Peter Pachla"
<peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> Can anyone point me at some sources of information on Data General,
> NeXT and/or
> Philips (minis).
>
> I'm looking to round off my collection by adding something from one
> or more of
> these product lines but know little about them so I don't really
> know what to
> look out for.
>
> In particular I've heard mention of a DG MicroNOVA which sounds like
> it might
> fit the bill in terms of size.
>
> TIA.
>
>
> TTFN - Pete.
>
> --
> Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
> Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers
> (esp DEC)
>
> peter.pachla(a)virgin.net |
> peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk |
> peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk |
> www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk
> --
>
>
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--- CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote:
> I'm a little uncertain why it's causing any hostility. As Kai pointed
> out, there's thousands of historic and interesting computers and
> peripherals hitting the dumpster every day, and if increased public
> awareness causes some of these machines to be saved, so much the better.
>
> Admittedly, most of the machines getting tossed aren't necessarily
> in anyone's "top 100 collectible" list, but that doesn't make them any less
> interesting IMHO.
Case-in-point: just today, a friend is collecting half-a-dozen machines from
a local high-school that's closing. He thought they were PS/1's, but from
his description, they might be PC-AT's (he's not a collector). He found out
about them when he was there to bid on shop equipment. The workmen told him
that if someone didn't pick them up today, they were going to "throw them
out"... out in this case is literally - out the second story window into an
industrial dumpster.
I asked him to grab these for me, sight unseen, just because I might be able
to scavenge the disk drives (if 360K) for my Kaypro, not because these are
likely to be any "Top 100" list. Even commodity hardware is work rescuing
if only to keep the older stuff going. I have a small box of 5Mb and 10Mb
drives for that same reason.
I was amazed/disgusted at the $510 Mac 512K, though, mostly at the seller for
not exactly lying, but not fully representing the truth. Caveat Emptor.
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Hi,
> The second PA-RISC machine from HP. The HP-UX version is
>the HP 9000/850. The MPE (not UNIX) version is the HP 3000/950.
>So, if it says 950, it started life as an MPE machine....
I don't suppose anyone in the UK is dumping one of these?
I used to support several of these machines in a previous job and would love to
add one to my collection.
TTFN - Pete.
--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
Not to mention HP certified(!) MPE/ix system operator....
peter.pachla(a)virgin.net |
peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk |
peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk
--
On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 06:41:58 -0400 Steve Robertson
<steverob(a)hotoffice.com> writes:
> Acording to the current ADAC catalog:
>
> Q-Bus compatible products
>
> 1664ATTL
>
> 64 line TTL compatible input/output card. Can provide any
> combination of
> inputs and outputs in increments of 8 by jumper control. All outputs
> latched. Program control interface included. Can drive at least 12'
> of
> cable. Can sink 20ma on each output. Size 8-1/2 X 5".
>
> list $515
^^^ Yeek!
Oh well. If anyone needs/wants this, my offer stands, as
I sure as hell can't use it; and I'm not in this for the $$$.
Jeff
>
> Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
>
>
> jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com wrote:
> >
> > This is an adac corp. model 1664ATTL double-wide
> > board. I have no idea what buss this is for,
> > but I think it is some kind of data aquisition
> > thingie.
> >
> > Have no idea if it works; anybody want it?
> > $3 plus postage.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
___________________________________________________________________
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>>an idiot. People pay money for something because they want it. So, you're
>>basically upset that somebody wants it more than you do?
>
>I agree that this is not a legitimate thing over which to become angry,
>but there is an issue that this is driving the prices up, out of reach of
>people who can handle these machines, and into the reach of people who
>want to encase them in plastic and put them into their 500 sq.ft. living
>room. This is causing some hostility.
I'm a little uncertain why it's causing any hostility. As Kai pointed
out, there's thousands of historic and interesting computers and
peripherals hitting the dumpster every day, and if increased public
awareness causes some of these machines to be saved, so much the better.
Admittedly, most of the machines getting tossed aren't necessarily
in anyone's "top 100 collectible" list, but that doesn't make them any less
interesting IMHO.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
It was also marketed as the Victor 9000.
> ----------
> From: Pete Joules[SMTP:peter@joules.enterprise-plc.com]
> Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 6:25 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: What is a Sirius?
>
> Just been offered one. Has anyone any idea what it is?
>
> Regards
> Pete
>
>Now, I have no -- none -- experience with anything bigger than a PC, but
>IIRC C & Unix were developed on a PDP-8 (or was it an 11???). I _am_ a C
>fanatic so these have some historical interest for me. Can you really
>have one on a desktop? Is the CPU smaller than a Toyota? Are 8"
>floppies still available?
Almost... C and Unix were originally developed (as far as *I* know)
on a pdp-7, and later on a pdp-11.
As for size, it depends on model and peripherals... For example, the
8/I I used in high school was one 6' rack and an ASR33 and it had no
peripherals other than the ASR33 (we read everything in via low-speed
reader and punched tape at the TTY speed).
I now have a pdp-8/e (with no peripherals) and it could sit on a desk
(though it would take up a significant percentage of the surface).
Tomorrow I'll be getting an old DECmate (the one in a VT terminal)
and a couple of 8" floppy drives...
> Please advise, as this may be my next foray into collecting, if I can
>find one and move it without a forklift . . .
Check out the -8s on my collection page to get an idea of size (of
systems with peripherals -- remember, the cabs are 6' high).
http://world.std.com/~mbg/home_systems.html
>P.S.: Isn't it rather sad that a micro-maker (Compaq) wound up buying
>DEC _and_ Tandem?
Yes...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
(Formerly with DEC for ~20 years)
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Not exactly. While 12 * 15 is 180, there are heat issues and such that
probably limit the supply to 8 to 10 amps with a margin for overload.
--Chuck
At 09:44 PM 6/30/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I am risking the effects of that famous quote, "Better to be thought a
>fool..."
>
>I have a 15V DC powersupply that has no other rating on its sticker than
>180 watts. Now, with my [extremely] limited knowledge, I did the simple
>math and worked out that I could safely pull 12 amps out of this
>PS...am I right? Does it really work this way?
>
>Aaron
>
