test-drb November 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

211 participants
749 discussions

Just picked up a HUGE PDP-8I and PDP-15 and .....

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

Well Chris... not too hard of a find. I bought everything from one member here! (I usually buy most of my systems from factories. Kevin Stumpf of (www.unusual.on.ca) sold me: PDP-8/S PDP-15 PDP-8I (and this baby is mint...... I plugged it in and every bulb worked and it's real happy!) About a 1000 flip chips All the manuals and docs, software.. even 5 trays of PDP 5,5/8 decus programs... Nova-2 Nova-3 A skid full of PDP 8, PDP 11, and Nova spares and parts and docs... None of them were running or had been plugged in. All of them came from McMaster University LAST YEAR! I have to hand it to Kevin. He did not miss a SINGLE piece of documentation or software. I don't think he ever really expected to sell all of it. I bought the 8/S first. (How we got in contact is really funny. I just finished scrapping an 8/E and emailed him about his Keronix mini.. for some reason I liked the way the 8/S looked in the picture on his website). I then picked up a Nova 2, then the Nova 3, then finally he agreed to sell me EVERYTHING he had left in Dec/Data General (PDP-15, PDP-8I).. (A good 14' UHAUL truck full.) The 8/S is fully restored. I am adding the DF32 and AX08 next week to it (finally, oscilloscope video games!). The 8I was well cared for by a DEC employee. It came from McMaster Hospital (section of the university). I was amazed when I got home how many goodies were inside. DF32, Sykes 8", 24K core, and many processor peripherals, flip chip extenders, racks of spare cards plugged into new backplanes - original flip chip single sided stuff). It was modified to run TSS/8, though it did run OS/8, disk monitor, and a bunch of other stuff. I powered up the 8I and it worked perfectly..BUT HAHAHAH... Common DEC guys!! a PC0 is NOT aligned the same way as a PC04.. This PC01 was set up wrong and did not work... ... It does now :-) I hope to have the 8I running OS/8 by next week. PDP-15, serial #49 - looks like it is plug and play... filled with toys... Kevin Stumpf did an amazing job of moving this equipment safely and ensuring it was not subjected to any bad weather. Me: I am still hurt from the move (Off work).. My Internet was down for 5 days as my new toys damaged some of my Internet stuff. I got most of the equipment and docs out of our living room. I took a bunch of pictures I will have online tonight.... I still have to go in and clean out a couple of plants filled with PDP-8s/IBM before the New Year.... ugh,.... I met William Donzelli at Kevin's the last time I was there. He bought the IBM System 3... he was moving the HDs in his mini van (yikes!). It looks like McMaster bought minis and peripherals from DEC as soon as they came out (judging by the serial numbers). -----Original Message----- From: Chris Kennedy <chris(a)mainecoon.com> To: dylanb(a)sympatico.ca <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 2:50 PM Subject: Re: Just picked up a HUGE PDP-8I and PDP-15 and ..... >Hi John, > >John B wrote: > >[details of an incredible haul, deleted] > >> Bought a large box of Nova core memory/FPU >> >> I picked up around 10 core memory planes and tons of Nova 2/3 spares. > >On behalf of the other DG collectors on the list, I can only >offer congratulations tinted with the slightest trace of envy :-) >A Nova FPU is a rare beast indeed. > >An incredible find, and a job well done. > >Best regards, >Chris > >-- >Chris Kennedy >chris(a)mainecoon.com >http://www.mainecoon.com >

25 years, 1 month

FS or Trade in Socal: Vector Graphic / COMPAL System

by elmo＠hotpop.com

I have a Vector Graphic "COMPAL" system (I guess they merged?) built into a Soroc-looking terminal. It has a Z80, Flashwriter, disk controller, PIO/SIO, and 64K Ram cards, but no floppy. Boots to ROM monitor. Keyboard and is in excellent condition, case cosmetics good. I acquired in my quest for a Soroc or LSI terminal, not knowing it was S-100. Now that I have my new (beige, ugh) ADM-3a, there is no more room at the counter for Compal. $100 OBO, or trade, will deliver in greater LA county area. Eliot

25 years, 1 month

Computers and other hardware containing the 8008 microprocessor

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . one version of the story, according to Adam Osborne, in his book (3-volume set) on microcomputers, was that Datapoint paid for the development of the 8008 for use in this jewel, then concluded that it wasn't fast enough, so now Intel had a paid-for 8-bit version of their 4004, which Osborned didn't say was what this was, but one might see a connection, nonetheless. Dick -----Original Message----- From: John Lewczyk <jlewczyk(a)his.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Computers and other hardware containing the 8008 microprocessor >< <! Datapoint 2200 (architecture was the model for the 8008, was built >< < using LSI, not an 8008) > >< This sounds bogus. the 8008 model was the 4004 (stretched data paths). >< The 8008 model was clearly unlike most minis of the time with the internal >< (to the CPU) return address stack or limited depth. >< >< Allison > >My information concerning the Datapoint 2200 is from a posting in >CPSR-HISTORY (the link I have to the archive is now dead, anybody have a >good link to that archive?) by the Chief Tech Officer at Datapoint from 1969 >to 1984, Vic Poor, who was directly involved in the Intel 8008 project. I >also have a copy of the excellent book "The Microprocessor: A Biography" by >Michael S. Malone, which describes the development of the 4004 and 8008 >Intel. > >There is lots of misinformation on the web, where you possibly got the >impression that that 8008 was a 4004 with a streched data path. The 8008 >was a very different design, actually an implementation of a Datapoint >architecture designed by Vic and Harry Pyle of Datapoint (then CTC, or >Computer Terminal Corporation), which was a bit-serial computer design. >Both Intel and TI were contracted to design the chip, but Intel couldn't >deliver on time (also maybe too slow?) and TI's product was doa ("its noise >margin was so poor it could not be used commercially"), so Datapoint used >the design it had already implemented using MSI chips and put out their >"Datapoint 2200". Anybody got one of those? All the Intel micoprocessors >up through the Pentium III have their roots in this design. That is were >the real data path stretching has occurred! :-) > >Interestingly, the notion that "Intel only got into the microprocessor >business to sell its memory chips" was at least in part based on the 8008 >project. According the Vic Poor, they only took on the cpu chip project in >order to keep the memory business with Datapoint! Some in Intel thought >that the market for microprocessors was too small and that the real money >was in volume production of memory chips! > >John > >jlewczyk(a)his.com >

25 years, 1 month

Computers and other hardware containing the 8008 microprocessor

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<So far this is the list of 8008 based computers that have been made aware <of: < <1973 "Micral" by R2E (later merged with Bull) Made in France <1973 "Intellec-8" by Intel (development system) Intel also had the MCS-8, more of an SBC and not connector compatable with MCS-8. <1974 "Scelbi-8H" by Scelbi Consulting (kit and assembled) <1974 "Mark-8" by Jon Titus in Radio Electronics 7/74. Plans and PC boards <only. <1974 "008A Microcomputer Kit" RGS Electonics. Plans and all parts, <? PopTronics (Popular Electronics?) <-- Does anyone know anything about Poptronics (Popular Electronics!) didn't do any 8008 designs. The first micro in their pages was the altair (8080). You also forgot the control-8 (may be wrong on the name) that DEC produced. It was a small 8008 based 1 or two board set for controller apps. Also there was Control Data Systems of Natick (MA) that produced the L-Series modules which were 8008 ram, rom, IO, CPU for industrial control use. <! Datapoint 2200 (architecture was the model for the 8008, was built < using LSI, not an 8008) This sounds bogus. the 8008 model was the 4004 (stretched data paths). The 8008 model was clearly unlike most minis of the time with the internal (to the CPU) return address stack or limited depth. Allison

25 years, 1 month

Computers and other hardware containing the 8008 microprocessor

by jlewczyk＠his.com

< <! Datapoint 2200 (architecture was the model for the 8008, was built < < using LSI, not an 8008) < This sounds bogus. the 8008 model was the 4004 (stretched data paths). < The 8008 model was clearly unlike most minis of the time with the internal < (to the CPU) return address stack or limited depth. < < Allison My information concerning the Datapoint 2200 is from a posting in CPSR-HISTORY (the link I have to the archive is now dead, anybody have a good link to that archive?) by the Chief Tech Officer at Datapoint from 1969 to 1984, Vic Poor, who was directly involved in the Intel 8008 project. I also have a copy of the excellent book "The Microprocessor: A Biography" by Michael S. Malone, which describes the development of the 4004 and 8008 Intel. There is lots of misinformation on the web, where you possibly got the impression that that 8008 was a 4004 with a streched data path. The 8008 was a very different design, actually an implementation of a Datapoint architecture designed by Vic and Harry Pyle of Datapoint (then CTC, or Computer Terminal Corporation), which was a bit-serial computer design. Both Intel and TI were contracted to design the chip, but Intel couldn't deliver on time (also maybe too slow?) and TI's product was doa ("its noise margin was so poor it could not be used commercially"), so Datapoint used the design it had already implemented using MSI chips and put out their "Datapoint 2200". Anybody got one of those? All the Intel micoprocessors up through the Pentium III have their roots in this design. That is were the real data path stretching has occurred! :-) Interestingly, the notion that "Intel only got into the microprocessor business to sell its memory chips" was at least in part based on the 8008 project. According the Vic Poor, they only took on the cpu chip project in order to keep the memory business with Datapoint! Some in Intel thought that the market for microprocessors was too small and that the real money was in volume production of memory chips! John jlewczyk(a)his.com

25 years, 1 month

RT11 V5.7 + RA92 = ?

by truthanl＠oclc.org

-----Original Message----- From: Megan [mailto:mbg@world.std.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 10:24 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: RT11 V5.7 + RA92 = ? >for a nice writeup of how the rules work). Unfortunately the RT-11 >developers chose to ignore these rules in picking their "default" second >CSR for RT-11, but of course you could choose to follow these rules >by ignoring the SYSGEN-suggested secondary (and tertiary and whatever >comes after) DU CSR's. Okay, as one of the developers involved with RT-11 at the time the DU handler was first developed after we actually got some prototype MSCP controllers, I have to respond... At the time we got the controllers, the primary address had already been defined, but the secondary and subsequent addresses were assumed to be allocated out of the floating CSR and floating vector areas. It wasn't until some later time that it was decided that the secondary and subsequent addresses were to be fixed and had a certain algorithm for determining. By that time, SYSGEN had already been modified. It was decided that 1) for backwards compatibility and 2) since the addresses can be changed with SET CSRn and VECn, SYSGEN wouldn't be changed. We didn't ignore the defaults, there were none at the time to ignore. Finally, there is the problem of the SBC-11/21[+], where the 'standard' MSCP address is actually in a pre-allocated area, so it has to be located elsewhere (176150)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 1 month

RX02 switch settings and RX8E bootstrap needed

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

Thanks Kevin and Tony. Just what I was looking for. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

25 years, 1 month

Convergent Technologies

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Mike, The Convergent machines did indeed run an OS called CTOS, though usually they weren't seen as Convergent machines. After Sperry-Univac and Burroughs merged into Unisys in 1986, they bought Convergent and continued selling the machines. The ones labeled Convergent ran CTOS, while others were labeled Burroughs and ran BTOS, which was really the same darn thing. However, these machines were OEMed very frequently, which is why I say it's unusual to see them labeled as Convergent. Those early machines were termed "Miniframes" , i.e. small mainframes. Later on, Convergent became one of the billions of clone PC makers, which didn't last long, and then Unisys discontinued use of the brand name. I have no clue what kind of CPU the things have, but if you want to get rid of them... ;p Anyways, I hope my little rant was at least somewhat informative. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

25 years, 1 month

RX02 switch settings and RX8E bootstrap needed

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

*Somewhere* I have the docs for this, but can someone please post the settings in an RX02 drive for the various modes? Plus, I'm *this close* to getting my PDP-8/e back on its feet (with the MS8 hex memory board for now - core later). I only have an MR8-E for the TD8E bootstrap, not for RX8-E. Can someone please post the floppy boot code to toggle in? Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

25 years, 1 month

RA81 questions.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Well, since the RA92 is OOC until I figure out how to kludge a fix, I guess i get to either go back to the RA81 or give up. (I have no other disks.) Anyway, when I last left it, the RA81 was complaining of seek errors, the panel lights had all burned out, and it was making scary noises. If I reformat the drive (Will RT11 do this?) will it rewrite the positioner information, or is that permanently written from the factory? The RA81 is really really heavy, and sucks a lot of amps, and I really don't know if it'll fit in the cabinet, so I really don't want to try playing with it unless it's saveable. So, questions are, is there any way to fix the disk short of a new HDA, can I replace the panel lights with LEDs, and can RT-11 format it? -------

25 years, 1 month

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test-drb November 1999