test-drb October 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

216 participants
748 discussions

HELP! ( totally OT) - Hitachi Monitor problem

by edick＠idcomm.com

please see embedded remarks below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 12:21 PM Subject: Re: HELP! ( totally OT) - Hitachi Monitor problem >> >Hey _I'm_ the one that flames about not being able to get service >> >information for everything I own. Last time I ranted on about this you >> >pointed out a number of good reasons why such information might not be >> >available. >> > >> It's like getting the service manual for a car of the same vintage, except >> that when a car is this old, it's just starting to cause little problems and >> the third-party repair manuals are available everywhere. In the electronics > >ALthough to be fair, most of the 3rd party car shop manuals are a waste >of space. Having been caught out a couple of times, I now always work >from the factory manual. It costs a bit more, but... > Agreed, though the original from the mfg is normally only available during the first year or two of ownership. I have the Nissan manual for my Maxima, though it was nine years old before I needed it. Frankly, I bought a 3rd party manual only because I couldn't find the original. > >> business, there have never been really decent repair manuals from 3rd >> parties, except maybe for TV's, of which I've never had one break. >> Unfortunately, as the prices of these commodities drop, the level of >> expectation to which the vendors respond drops as well. These days, you can >> get a really decent 20" monitor for $400 or less. When it breaks, it's >> unlikely you'll get anyone to fix it for less than the price of a new one. > >Except that in a lot of cases the old (and expensive when new) monitor >(or whatever) is built a _lot_ better than the modern 'replacemnt' (and >it may well give better performance as well -- a lot of modern monitors >have terrible convergence, etc). > >I guess I'm strange, but I'd rather repair something that was once great >than replace it with something that could never be as good... > Yes, but new monitors these days have flat screens and are VERY sharp and VERY linear, unlike the large-screen multisync displays of yesteryear. The fixed frequency varieties which are so difficult to use for anything useful are the outgrowth of this. Instead of making an "average" monitor with the ability to sync at several sweep rates displaying appropriate resolutions, they made one which was VERY linear and VERY well focused and converged at a single frequency and let the boardmakers benefit from that. > >> >> If you want a schematic of a 7-year-old TV set, I doubt it's readily >> available either. I've never had a monitor repaired successfully by a > >Hmm... In the UK there were books produced every year of TV schematics. I >have an almost-complete set from 1952 to 1981 (!) -- these ones cover >radios, tape recorders, etc as well. And beleive-it-or-not, many public >libraries have at least some of them available. > >So finding the schematic of a 7 year old TV (which is not an old set >IMHO) would not be a big problem. > >There are also companies who sell copies of old service manuals, for just >about anything. I got the manuals for the Sony 'Rover' portable >reel-to-reel video recorder and camera a few months back. That thing is >over 25 years old, but there was no problem in getting a service manual, >although Sony could no longer supply it. > >Said company does sell computer (mostly home micro) and monitor service >manuals (I got the Sharp MZ80B manual + schematics from them). But >obviously they can only supply manuals if the manufacturer of the device >has produced them (and has given permission for them to be reproduced, I >guess). > >There are some books of computer monitor circuits available, and then >later they produced similar information on CD-ROM (basically just scans >of the manuals). I found the latter to be painful to use, but the former >are actually very useful. Even if your monitor isn't in there, there's >likely to be something that's similar. > >> "professional" working at an "authorized" repair center. I sent in a very > >I've never met a 'professional' who could repair anythign of mine. Why >do you think I fix everything myself :-)... > Hear! Hear! ... > >[...] > >> >Although it's hard to imagine anything particularly clever/unusual in a >> >standard colour monitor. Most monitors that I've worked on use pretty >> >much standard circuitry. >> > >> That's what puzzles me about the color displays I have sitting about. There >> aren't many that look even remotely similar beyond the most superficial >> observation. Not one has a flyback transformer, and all the >> current-generation multisync types use some encapsulated device about 4x6x1" >> or so to effect the power management functions. > >Hmm... In my experiece most single-freqeuncy monitors still use a >traditional flyback transformer. I say 'most' because there are one or >two that I have that use an independant EHT supply. > >As soon as you get to multiple scan rates (even just for EGA), it makes >life a lot easier if you separate the EHT generator and the Horizontal >output. EHT still comes from a 'flyback transformer' but it's not >connected to the HOT. It has its own driver transistor. Both the HOT and >the EHT-transformer output transistor are driven by the horizontal >oscillator but the supply to the output stage (normally) is separately >controllerd. This allows non-interacting EHT regulation and width >control, I guess. > I wish I knew as much about these things as you, but I've stuck with the circuits inside the computer, and allowed others, (obviously) to worry the problems with monitors. I learned at an early age, that punched and screwed chassis take skin of hands (or whatever else you have on their far side) as you try to get away from the "bite" of the HV lurking inside. > >No idea what modern multisync-with-power-save+... do. I've never had the >misfortune to have to really repair one. The couple I have fixed have had >obvious faults that I could sort out without a schematic and without >understanding how the unit really works. You know, faults like dry joints >on the CRT base. > Unfortunately those are commone enough to motivate even me to look inside. > >-tony >

25 years, 1 month

fwd: Old computer stuff

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Some potentially interesting stuff for rescue in the Utah area. Please reply off-list to the original poster -jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >From: pmarzolf(a)juno.com >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:11:22 -0600 >Subject: Old computer stuff >X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 >X-Status: > >I am the oldest programer still programming >in the basic language. > >Through the years of programing I have collected >alot of computer stuff. It starts with programes >written for LGP-30 in 1956. > >I can't find anyone except the dump for all this >stuff. I guess my problem is it is not on the >west coast. If you or you know any one that >would be interested I would like to hear from >them. > >Paul V Marzolf >2761 Morningside Dr. >Salt Lake City, Ut 84124 >Email >pmarzolf(a)juno.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

25 years, 1 month

Vt180, whats the story here?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Wrong... (I think). My memory may be hazy but... <The VT132 (and 131 I believe) both were capable of block mode. <The 132 (I thought) was a 102 with block mode, AVO and Printer port <capability. Might be right, though I thought that was the VT161/2. there were a lot of "flavors" of those. <The VT131 had Block mode, STP, AVO done the old way... All three <options and different roms. < <The 132 was a cost reduced 131 based on the 102 which came standard <with 24 lines of 132 (without AVO) -- It was built in the standard <VT102 logic board. Thats it. <The VT101 was a 102 without the AVO memory (I think) and was the bottom <of the line VT10x in cost. Yep! <I think the 102 and 132 allows hardware flow control like the VT220. Actually they all did. it was called restraint mode (pin 19 or 21) I'd have to look). <There were some interesting illegal (and legal) escape codes that did <interesting different bugs to the VT100, 101 and 102 based on their <setup settings. One of these bugs caused hell for VT102 and 101 users <when the EDT program slowed their scrolling down to a crawl back around <VMS 3.2 or so. Ah yep. Remember the fix, VT52mode. Then came the group that produced the Video SRM and later the printers SRMs (DEC STDs). the goal was to not break anything and have compatability that made sense for later products. Allison

25 years, 1 month

Vt180, whats the story here?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Could the VT103 supply handle the load of this stuff...? <Hmmm... Mine can... (not the standard part!) <Is Bernie still around? <I'd love to make ZCPR2 and ZCPR3 for the Rainbow available to the net <but I'd need his ok... Don't know. I've not been around DEC for 6 years. Didn't he copyleft those version of ZCPR (ZCPR was copyleft itself!). Allison

25 years, 1 month

DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I do. I always wanted to turn it into a semi-portable UNIX machine < <> It's a VT100 with a 4-slot Q-bus backplane inside (!). Actually it was 3 quad wide or 6 AB slots. <Some even had TU-58's in the front. Never. that was a PDT11/130 that was demoted to a Vt100 then had one of two possible backplanes installed. The 11/130 TU58 would ahve the board swaped out was it was the ONLY parallel version and the rest were serial. <> There's a paddleboard in <> the STP slot that links to 2 ports on a DLV11-J (4-port RS232) card in <> the backplane. < <*That* I don't have. :-( Not required just means different cables. The STP card interconneccted the VT100 but you could to that with a cable from the VT100 DB25 to a MXV11 or DLV11j just as easily. <> The VT100 becomes the console for whatever processor you <> stick in the Q-bus, while the connector on the back is a normal serial <> port, also on the Q-bus system... If you have that STP card. Otherwise it's just a console and you use a modem program to (VTcom, Vterm). <For compact systems, the MXV-11 also works with the paddle card - two port <and some memory. MXV11 x2 gets you 32kW, 4 serial ports and boot roms plus a cpu card is a system. The only other card would be a RXV11 or RXV21 (or similar) for a floppy. The TU58 if you have one of the cases with it uses a serial port and the MXV11s (x2) will certainly provide that. Another config is KDF11A (11/23 m8186), one or two 256k cards (q22), DLV11J (4 serial ports), M8212 (boot) and a RXV21 (or RQDX3). With Qbus 11s you can slice and dice it a lot of ways. Allison

25 years, 1 month

Unified e-mail address for Sellam Ismail

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Effective immediately I am shedding the <dastar(a)wco.com> e-mail address. My primary and sole e-mail address is now <sellam(a)siconic.com>. Please use <sellam(a)siconic.com> for all your future e-mails. Thank you. Sellam International Man of Intrique and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 1 month

Vt180, whats the story here?

by mdalene＠home.ctol.net

[This message has also been posted.] First a short summary, Something I have been giving for awhile, I got a free Vt180 terminal. AT least Thats what It says on the front. but on the back on the nameplate it says its aa Vt100-AA! I am wondering if the AVO and the Secondary Processor part (STP) was added later on. It works GREAT as a vt100 but I have ran into a few brick walls trying to find a EK-vt100-UG Vt100 Users Guide. I can order it from Digital/Compaq for $25 but I rather not dip into my grocery money for a technical manual. I have not found out anything on how to set the printer up on it. or how to use the Vt180 part of it. or for that matter, how do I RIP that OUT! if I cannot get a boot disk for it... its worthless anyway. Here is my questions. Please help me best you can here: 1. what is Advanced Video Option (AVO) and how do I use it? 2. If the STP is the VT180 part how do I REMOVE it! *if I want plain Vt100, while maintaining AVO) 3. How do I use a printer on a VT100 and how do I set printer baud rates and parity, Stop bits 3. What are the part numbers for the manuals I need for this sucker? I know of the EK-VT100-UG and the EK-VT100-RC but what do I need for the advanced video option? STP (VT180? part) 4. What is the Graphics option? can I still get one? is that for bit mapped graphics? howis it used? can the graphics be used via Linux with graphics display utility or a plotting program (gnupplot). 5. can any of this info be located on the internet? Do I need to go hungry by ordering over $200 in US dollars worth of manuals (I only get $686 each month due to my legal blindness, that goes for rent, Electric, Gas, phone and food. My rent is $350.00 btw. 6. who has the sticker (in sticker form) that goes on the bottom of the vt100 keyboard showing the setup B screen and I/O toggle possitions. 7. How do I make the Needed cable to connect to the external floppy drive unit? Db37 to Db25? what is the pinouts or wiring to make this cable. 8. Since it has Composite In and Composite out. Does it have a built in genlock allowing me to at least use the Vt100 to do titling and captions; then sending the output to a second Video Recording unit. if titleing is not possible, what is Composite video IN for?? I tried to find this info for over 2 weeks, on Webcrawler, Infoseeek, Lycos, Altavista, Lycos (ftp search), Ask Jeeves, hotbot and what I have gotten is very sketchy at best. All I really NEED at this time is a a copy of the needed manuals in either Postscript or PDF format. or good ole HTML.. Finding the pin outs of the Vt180 cable are non-existant, as is sources of Vt180 boot disk images. While we are on the issue of DEC stuff. Who has the full list of the Control Codes for the Rainbow 100's terminal mode? How come when I fire up CP/M Modem7 or 8? I can use the Previous Screen/Next Screen keys and yet in the ROM Vt100 emulation Neither key works? Is there a good program for CPM 86/80 that allows the use or the extraa keys to be sent to Linux? such as HELP, DO, HOME, Insert, Delete Next Screen and Previous Screen? what is the Ansi codes sent by these keys?? I need something that handles 9600 bps with proper flow control. the "Modem" program for CP/M does NOT seem to work well at 9600 as it drops characters often. -- A pearl of wisdom from the y2K newsgroups: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Y2K appears to be the Baby Boomers mid-life crisis, and it has the potential to be a dandy. -- Anonymnous -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- B'ichela

25 years, 1 month

Vt180, whats the story here?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<A VT125 is a STP board that is also called a Graphics processor board. It's not a STP board. the stp board is a little bord used to interconnet the two or (technically) a printer buffer board. The VT125 option ( have two) is a double board set that adds in like the VT180 card and is the same size overall as a VT100 card (that also has to be present). I know, the engineering group I was with was formerly the TERMINALS and PRINTERS people at DEC. Later it became two distinct groups. I still keep a hybrid VT100 that has VT125, VT180 and PDT11/130(the VT180 card and the PDT can be swapped in a moment as both would cook the PS nor woth the fit!) in the same case. Definately not factory but it allows me to have something that is a genuine VT100 for those times when nothing else will do. I think Bernie, me and a few odd people had real VT185s. They were scarce. The reason was the interconnect card (different STP card than plain VT100/VT180) was needed and I don't think it ever got to production. Allison

25 years, 1 month

DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org

> > > --- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > There's a thing called a VT103 (which I don't have :-(). > > I do. I always wanted to turn it into a semi-portable UNIX machine > > > It's a VT100 with a 4-slot Q-bus backplane inside (!). I've got an unused one sitting in the garage. I've got some docs somewhere on how to rewire the backplane for uVaxII's. > > There's a paddleboard in > > the STP slot that links to 2 ports on a DLV11-J (4-port RS232) card in > > the backplane. > > *That* I don't have. :-( Ah yesss... I'm not sure if there's one in mine. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check.

25 years, 1 month

DEC stuff is so cool! They were sneaky and smart!

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > There's a thing called a VT103 (which I don't have :-(). I do. I always wanted to turn it into a semi-portable UNIX machine > It's a VT100 with a 4-slot Q-bus backplane inside (!). Some even had TU-58's in the front. > There's a paddleboard in > the STP slot that links to 2 ports on a DLV11-J (4-port RS232) card in > the backplane. *That* I don't have. :-( > The VT100 becomes the console for whatever processor you > stick in the Q-bus, while the connector on the back is a normal serial > port, also on the Q-bus system... For compact systems, the MXV-11 also works with the paddle card - two ports and some memory. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

25 years, 1 month

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test-drb October 1999