< better. Plywood is probably not the best shelving material; I don't
< know much about this stuff, but wouldn't solid wood be stronger?
No. Plywood is laminated wood veneers and has a strength that exceeds
solid boards of the same dimension. It also has the advantage of oriented
grain for each layer and available with finished surfaces. A cheaper
material is OSB, oriented strandboard the high strength upper class cousin
of flake board.
The idea of glued up (laminated) woods is quite old and has always been
used where strength is a primary concern. It can be used to get grain
and layers that have differing color as well.
Very strong shelves can be made up using 1x3 stock and plywood combined
with 2x4 or 2x6 uprights. The problem is good quality wood has gotten
expensive.
Allison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 'joant(a)cadence.com' [mailto:joant@Cadence.COM]
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 2:11 PM
> To: Dellett, Anthony
> Subject: Re: PDP boot problems
>
>
> Thus spake Allison:
> > I have both S100 systems and PDP-11s so I can be a translator and
> > relationship mediator...;)
>
> Thanks, Allison :)
>
> > MXV21??? do you mean RXV21?
>
> Yes, I do. My mistake. Tony called CRDS and confirmed that it's
> supposed to be a drop-in replacement.
>
> > Also in PDP-11s interrupts are "shared", actually daisy chained via
> > request grant on the backplane. if the cards are not in sequencial
> > slots in the grant chain then things don't work.
>
> Will confirm this. What happens if the cards are placed as:
>
> M8186 MXV11
> RXV21
>
> I'm guessing this won't work, but it was one of the alternate
> orderings
> I had been using. I can't remember well enough as to how the
> backplane
> was wired...though I do remember that if you're going to skip
> slots, you
> need to use teeny bus grant continuity cards :) (That's for
> a later date.)
>
> > the tests work if... all them jumpers on the MXV11s are correct.
>
> Shoot. I was afraid of this. I'm going to have to rip all of the
> jumpers out that are non-standard and start over again.
>
> > ODT runs without interrutps so it can only mean that the
> > console addresses
> > are real but the interrupts may be wrong.
>
> Verification of the interrupt jumpers showed them to be at the
> correct addresses when I checked this morning, but I'll double-check
> tonight (under a BRIGHT lamp with my VOM) and verify them.
>
> > Thost can contain one of four groups of software, DEC rom ODT
> > and boots,
> > Customer programs, DIAGnostics or CRD ODT/boot code.
>
> Right. I'm pretty sure that ONE of these cards as the correct loader
> for the FC202, but I've lost track as to which is which. I'll pull
> the PROMs for the time being, and will eventually read them in on
> my PROM programmer to figure out what the hell they do.
>
> > The bus config is unlikely a problem, the MXV11 addessing for
> > ram can be.
>
> Again, the config was set to Ram bank 0 last I checked on
> this particular
> card, but I can't be 100% sure. I'll check first thing when
> I get home...
>
> Thanks for your help, Allison! I now know where to focus my efforts.
>
> -Joan
> --
> - Joan Sarah Touzet | So grey is not the color I
> expected -
> - joant(a)cadence.com | On someone who's so often
> touched by grace -
> - joyce.eng.yale.edu/~joant| But always she's the spectre of
> uncertainty -
> - I still love OS/2. | I first endured, then faded,
> then embraced... -
>
If you suspect it's a dead keyboard, I can prolly be talked into sending
you one of my spares.
> > Problem: I just noticed the C64 seems to have these
> dead keys '5, 7, 9,
> >and 0'. Looks to me like a dead bit on the keyboard
> controller, but I must
> >confess to ignorance on the internal details of how the C64
> accepts key
> >presses. Can anyone give an overview, and would anyone know
> of a fix?
> >
>
Here's more info on the PDP boot problem. Since my girlfriend knows more
about it than I do, I'll let her explain :).
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joan Sarah Touzet [mailto:joant@Cadence.COM]
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 9:27 AM
> To: anthony.dellett(a)staples.com
> Subject: Forward for your mailing list
>
>
> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm sorry for my boyfriend's post lacking details on my PDP
> setup; he's
> not familiar with these systems, and was hoping there was a simple
> answer (and a simple configuration!) for dead PDP-11/23s.
> Unfortunately, no such thing ever exists... ;) (So I'm the QBus
> person, and he's the S-100 bus person. You can imagine the fights we
> have over dinner.)
>
> Anyway, all joking aside, this is a PDP-11/23 system. It's installed
> in a Charles River Data Systems backplane & enclosure, which
> contains 2
> 8" drives which I believe are double sided. (I'll open the case this
> weekend to confirm, and to CLEAN!) The system has been stripped down
> to only the essential modules: a KDF-11A (PDP-11/23 CPU with FPU
> installed, M8186), an MXV-11 multifunction serial/32K memory card with
> local refresh (M8047-CA), and a Charles River Data Systems
> FC-202 drive
> controller board. I currently have the backplane configured as such:
>
> M8186
> M8047
> FC202
>
> With no documentation on the FC202, it's hard to know whether it is
> trying to share an interrupt with the M8047, but I've been told it's a
> dropin replacement for the MXV21, so I've placed it as such. FYI, the
> backplane is quad high, with 8 rows of slots.
>
> I have been trying to boot RT-11SJ v5 from drive 0 using the RX02
> single and double density bootloaders, as well as the RX01 bootloader
> on the off-chance that these are single-sided drives. One of two
> things happens:
>
> 1) After RS/340, R7/1000, P the run light comes on, drive 0's busy
> light comes on
> (and it sounds like it seeks to Track 0) but the system hangs
> there. In this
> case, the RUN light stays lit until I send BREAK or front-panel
> toggle from ENBL
> to HLT. This happens in less than 1/2 a second. I don't hear
> any additional
> seeking from the drive.
>
> 2) After RS/340, R7/1000, P the run light comes on momentarily,
> drive 0's busy
> light comes on (and seeks to Track 0), the run light
> extinguishes, and I'm
> dumped to ODT somewhere around 1104. (The address can vary.)
> This happens in
> less than 1/2 a second.
>
> I am unconvinced that the drive is actually returning a media error
> this quickly. I've also let the system sit in state 1 for the
> approximate time I remember it took these systems to boot (30
> seconds?
> It's been 18 years...) but no kumquat.
>
> I've also entered some of the diagnostic programs I've found in the
> Microcomputer & Memories books I've got floating around (1981, 1982
> editions). Most of the tests pass. The ones that don't are
> tests like
> the "continuous stream of ASCII characters to the console prompt" and
> the "press a key, create an interrupt, and halt the program" ones.
> After trying multiple CPU and MXV11-CA modules, and still seeing the
> same erroneous behavior, I'm beginning to suspect that those programs
> don't quite work as indicated. I haven't gathered up the gumption to
> bother debugging them by hand yet.
>
> Oh, and in case you're wondering, I have the CPU module jumpered to
> power-on into ODT, and the MXV11-A module is pretty much at
> the factory
> defaults. Some of the MXV11-As that I have, have boot PROMs installed
> in them, and so the PROM address jumpers may be different than those
> listed as factory defaults, but everything else is "by the book."
>
> One final note -- this system and enclosure were working a few years
> ago in an expanded configuration (with 3rd party memory add-on modules
> I've since removed, as well as a bunch of Analog Devices-powered A/D
> boards, and an RGB Peritek video board) so I'm pretty sure
> that the bus
> is configured for a /23 already, instead of for an LSI/2 or something.
>
> Any ideas? My current plans for the weekend involve taking the
> enclosure apart and cleaning the drives within an inch of their lives,
> then trying to boot again using the RX02 bootloaders. I'm starting to
> run out of ideas.
>
> -Joan Touzet (go ahead and reply to the list, I can read it just fine
> through the archives page :P )
> ---
> - Joan Sarah Touzet | So grey is not the color I
> expected -
> - joant(a)cadence.com | On someone who's so often
> touched by grace -
> - joyce.eng.yale.edu/~joant| But always she's the spectre of
> uncertainty -
> - I still love OS/2. | I first endured, then faded,
> then embraced... -
>
>
At 11:15 AM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> 3.5" 20MB Hard Disk Drive (T3100/20)
>> JVC : JD3824ROTO
>> Number of heads: 4
>> Number of cylinders: 612
>
>Roger, those numbers don't sound right. At the very least, that should
>be a 30mb drive. But with the number of sectors that they are packing
>onto a disk these days, it would doubtless be much higher.
Wasn't that the same number of heads & cylinders as an ST-225? But that
was MFM and this is "2-7 RLL", so I think you're right, RLL oughta give you
30mb... But, that's straight from Toshiba's specs file for the T3100 &
T3100/20.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
OK, this isn't even funny anymore. I replaced the keyboard, and the
thing works fine. The problem is that the cable leading to the
display was damaged, and the backlight ceased to work. So, I decided
to bypass the cable (only one trace). This was fine, but I tried to
solder the wire I was using directly to a pin of the surface-mounted
ribbon cable connector (the output, that connects to the circuit
board inside the display panel). Of course, i bridged four of the
pins. I have no desoldering tools of any kind, but I doubt it would
help much. The solder got into little crevices between the pins and
onto the circuit board itself. I guess this board is non-essential,
but is there any way I could un-bridge this stuff?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 10:12 PM 7/30/98 -0700, you wrote about Pereos Tapes:
>I was in Tokyo recently and saw a store selling the (Sony) cartridges
>(about the size of a quarter) for about 1600 yen (around $14 at the
[...]
>Alas, I don't remember the store, but it was one of the seven-floor
>monsters in central Akihabara.
Ah well, since it was only yesterday that I was finally sure I'd be able to
go to Denver on holiday, Tokyo is a pipe dream for me... (like England,
Southern Africa, etc. <sigh>)
But, all is not lost. I found a guy who has a few; I'm getting 5 for $25
plus shipping. Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
just cement the blocks together....
----------
> From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds
> Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 12:04 PM
>
> In the case of the original inquiry, I think mother nature moves them for
him,
> whether he wants them moved or not. Needs something for the San Fran
climate...
>
> Jason Willgruber wrote:
>
> > Here's how I store my "stuff": I keep my collection in my basement, so
I
> > have made shelves out of cement blocks and 2x4's (like the outdoor
flower
> > displays at WalMart), and then I put 1/2" plywood on top of the 2x4's
and
> > screw it down with drywall screws.
> > If you feel that you need extra strength, you can lay the 2x4's on
edge,
> > and then screw the plywood on. Yes, this method may be a bit heavy,
but
> > how often are you going to move them?
> > --
> > -Jason
> > (roblwill(a)usaor.net)
> > ICQ#-1730318
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Charles E. Fox <foxvideo(a)wincom.net>
> > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds
> > > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 8:34 AM
> > >
> > > At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some,
> > > >according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden
one
> > of
> > > >the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was
> > there
> > > >and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still...
> > > >
> > > >Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the
> > GRiD's
> > > >is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get
at
> > > >Target for $8 on sale.
> > > >
> > > >So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection?
Keep
> > in
> > > >mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue.
> > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
>
> --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Russ Blakeman
> RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
> Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
> Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
> Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
> ICQ UIN #1714857
> AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
> * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Here's how I store my "stuff": I keep my collection in my basement, so I
have made shelves out of cement blocks and 2x4's (like the outdoor flower
displays at WalMart), and then I put 1/2" plywood on top of the 2x4's and
screw it down with drywall screws.
If you feel that you need extra strength, you can lay the 2x4's on edge,
and then screw the plywood on. Yes, this method may be a bit heavy, but
how often are you going to move them?
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Charles E. Fox <foxvideo(a)wincom.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds
> Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 8:34 AM
>
> At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >The other day I was mucking around in the room I store most (some,
> >according to my girlfriend 8^) of my collection, and all of a sudden one
of
> >the shelves holding a bunch of Toshibas, collapsed. Luckily, I was
there
> >and was able to keep them from crashing to the floor, but still...
> >
> >Upon closer inspection, it looks like the shelf with (some of) the
GRiD's
> >is about ready to go as well. These are those metal shelves you get at
> >Target for $8 on sale.
> >
> >So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep
in
> >mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue.
Thanks!
> >
> >
Hello.
I am looking for a Tandy 2800HD Laptop. Just the plain 2800 with the EGA
display. I am willing to trade either a 14" color EGA, 14" color VGA, or
14" color XGA monitor for it. The VGA and EGA monitors will come with a
video board. The XGA works with the XGA/2 video adapter for a PS/2.
I am also looking for old laptop cases - the big kind that a Tandy 1400
will fit in.
ThAnX,
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
PS>>If anyone wants to make me an offer for the monitors, I am willing to
sell them for the right price.
