test-drb July 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

154 participants
898 discussions

Zuses (Was: Re: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In

by franke＠sbs.de

> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:33:09 PDT > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > From: "Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Zuses (Was: Re: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM' >> [About first Computers/Zuses] >>Big ? Hmm. The Z1 could be described as a desktop computer, >>since Zuse (and his friends) bulid it on his parents kitchen >>table - but it tool up the whole table. > More questions, then: > What did they do? I guess they couldn't have been that powerful if the > ENIAC took up a whole building... The Z1 for shure, but compared to the ENIAC, the Z3 had a comprehensive calculating speed. One problem is the different technologie used - ENIAC used a 10 digit fixed point decimal system, while Zuse already used binary floating point like todays computers. The ENIAC could do 14 fixed point multiplication per second, while the Z3 did (only) 0.3 floating point. Its the old thing of big money vs. no money - or government fund projects vs. private - for the ENIAC, upenn had (almost) unlimited government money, while Zuse didn't get any singe cent - so he had to use junk telephone relais instead of new one, and this also is the reason why he used a relais system istrad of tubes - he just couldn't aford it - It's the same in all ages - if you don't have to count every transistor, byte, megabyte (M$) you'll use everything available. (The ENIAC-on-a-chip project also took 174,569 transistors to rebuild the function :) Zuse: >After the War was finally over, news of the University of Pennsylvania ENIAC machine went all round the world - "18,000 tubes!". We could only shake our heads. What on earth were all the tubes for? Schreyer and I parted company after the War. At that time it was prohibited to develop electronic equipment in West Germany.< They had plans for a 2000 tubes computer around 1937, but didn't get the money, since the authorities belived that the war wouldn't need it, because the planned two year development would be to late ... Helmut Schreyer had build a small experimental machine for calculating 10 Digit numbers with something around 100 tubes, running in 1944. Not a complete comuter - more like a calculator. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

26 years, 5 months

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin

by mbg＠world.std.com

Yes, the DCT11 (t-11) is a single chip... it has no memory management (except for a strange implementation on one of the vax line... Venus, I think...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 5 months

DEC/X11 Fiche

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, inquiring minds want to know. I just got a large pile of microfiche today, and in it is a stack an inch thick or better with a header of DEC/X11, and dates between about 1973 and 1981. I've a strange feeling it's got something to do with XXDP. It looks to all be source code, I would guess in assembly language (I've not taken a decent look at it yet). What on earth is this stuff? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 5 months

DEC/X11 Fiche

by mbg＠world.std.com

Diagnositic programs for the pdp-11. If you have no use, I wouldn't mind them... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 5 months

DEC/X11 Fiche

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 30, 22:22, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: DEC/X11 Fiche > OK, inquiring minds want to know. I just got a large pile of microfiche > today, and in it is a stack an inch thick or better with a header of > DEC/X11, and dates between about 1973 and 1981. I've a strange feeling > it's got something to do with XXDP. It looks to all be source code, I > would guess in assembly language (I've not taken a decent look at it yet). > What on earth is this stuff? It's the stuff I've been looking for for ages :-) If it's an inch thick, you only have a small part of it. But it is the listings of (some of) the XXDP diagnostics. It's common to refer to these so you can see what the setup options etc are for the various diagnostics. IIRC, a complete PDP-11 set took up most of a microfiche file box. Wasn't this stuff also on-line at Digital once upon a time? Names like STARS and TIMA come to mind too (my spelling might be wildly wrong, of course). What happened to all that information? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

Win NT 3.5 Workstation FS/Trade

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I have a full copy of Windows NT workstation 3.5 that was opened but never used to get out of my way. Any offers, cash or trades? I'm sure someone in this list has a need for it. More info email me direct please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

26 years, 5 months

OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 1, 0:41, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Re[2]: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macin > > optional. You'd also need to allow the T-11 processor. > > Isn't the T11 a single chip? The one in my York Box certainly seems to be > a simple 40 pin plastic DIL package. Exactly! :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

Gone! I'm gone! (Temporarily)

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Oh, I'll be back. I'm simply going to unsubscribe until I get back from my annual scrounging trip to the Bay Area. Given that I've seen as many as 60+ messages/day, and I'll be gone for (effectively) ten days, I would prefer not to come home to 600+ messages! Have a fun and safe Fourth of July! I shall return!! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 5 months

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test-drb July 1998