test-drb April 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

122 participants
678 discussions

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Dunno when the 8X305 came out. I've seen them, and got the data sheets, <but never used one. Well after the 2901! it's far more complex. It was preceded by the 8x300 and the 3x305 was somthing like 1979-81. Allison

26 years, 9 months

eBay = Mkt Value? (was: my objection to recent postings)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:35 AM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >> As to whether prices on eBay represent what experienced, knowledgeable >> collectors will pay, that's another story. > >Exactly my point. I'd rather base valuations on what experienced, >knowledgeable collectors will pay. People who have a better idea of how My point too. There's a big difference in "market value" and "collector value". (Don't believe me, buy a "collectible" plate sometime, or coins >from a TV shopping channel.) Market value is what the average idiot will pay, at auction or elsewhere. Collector value is what an informed collector will pay, based on rarity, significance, etc. I've got books on disney, hot wheels/corgi/dinky/matchbox/etc., glassware, collectible board games, and so on (used to be in the business, kinda) and I am often amazed at what things sell for, at auction, at antique shows, in stores, as well as at garage sales, flea markets, and so on. Heck, Hake's is one of the biggest value setters in the US of pricing on Disney, politicals, advertising, and so on stuff, but still, a lot of collectors (me included) think their prices are inflated. Market value versus collector value. >> That's a tough call. Do you sell it to someone who will use it and >> appreciate it for what you paid for it, or do you put it on eBay so you can >> pay the property taxes? I haven't got an answer to that one yet. > >I do...sell it to me :) Ah, but... Say I'm a newbie to the group (and don't take this personally!), how do I know that if I sell you my //c LCD screen for $20, I won't see it listed on eBay next week with a starting bid of $400? And even though I know you wouldn't do that, I still not that easy. As an example, I've got two SE/30 motherboards, brand new, in the Apple Service boxes. I know some people here expressed interest in them, so I should probably offer them here, cheaply. The problem is, they're actually part of the Mac stuff allocated to my girlfriend's school. If I sold them on eBay, I might get enough to buy a complete, working IIci system to put into the classroom for the kids to use. What do I do? And even if they weren't going to the school, I wasn't able to take my dad and niece to Disneyland this year because I can't afford it. If I sold them on eBay, that would pay for part of a cheap trip to Dland. Like I said, tough call. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

26 years, 9 months

Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Here's an idea... How about making Friday the "classifieds section" day? You know, like the local newspaper. Although classifieds appear in newspspers daily, it seems that one day has many more than the others. This would reduce the daily FS/T traffic, but still enable people to trade stuff. I see ClassicCmp as a great resource, not only for information not available elsewhere, but also for physical equipment and software which is obviously no longer made or supported by the manufacturer. I also think that those on this list should give (and be given) first crack at something that one of us has for sale. We all know eachother, have dealth with eachother previously, and for the most part, know that "the check is good." Trading should continue, but maybe it should be aggregated and done on one day. Maybe Monday's the right day...maybe Friday. I don't know. Just my $0.02. Happy Holidays to all. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

26 years, 9 months

Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:49 AM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: > Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has >been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick to the e-mail list, and the real die-hards follow both, cross-posting stuff all the time. > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) ^ I am not a number, I am a free man! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

26 years, 9 months

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > Actually, it's all discrete TTL chips (74S181 ALUs, 74161's for the > program counter, etc). The KMC11 and DMR11 (a later version That's right 'ls181, a crude bit slice ALU. I remember there was a way to download microcode directly, the RSX driver supported it. None of those cool 2900 series slices were around yet, maybe even the 8x305 was still on the drawing board. I still have the AMD 2901 design book, heavy going but it tells you everything you ever want to know about building a CPU from scratch. I don't suppose anyone has some kind of system built from 2901 bit slices? Roll your own microcoded instruction sets? Jack Peacock

26 years, 9 months

by POLARIS＠VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU

Hello - could you add me to the list? Thanks, Dave Forsyth

26 years, 9 months

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by maynard＠jmg.com

Allison, this was private email, but I figure this may be actually of interest to the group. There's nothing here personal, or insulting anyway... OK. So Allison says the HEX bus 11/44 ran a BSD variant with networking. I would guess a Q-BUS CPU with memory management like the 11/23 and 11/73 line should run this BSD variant as well... what I want to know is, did the kernel fit into 64K in one segment, or did they spread the kernel across segment bounderies? If so, how? I mean, I could see overlays (in the kernel... blech!), but I don't remember the 11 supporting long long jumps... and address value was 16 bits, period. Still, I was never great at 11 assembly. Could someone here give a good detailed account of PDP-11 segment mapping support? Could my stack and register values be retained and follow while moving from segment to segment? And how the hell did you tell the memory manager you wanted to pop to another segment, anyway? The curious want to know.... --jmg > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:40:32 -0400 > From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) > To: maynard(a)jmg.com > Subject: Re: You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet) > > > < I find it tough to believe that a BSD kernel with networking > < fit into the 64K memory segments of the PDP11... The copy of > < Venix I ran on my 11/23 didn't support networking and the > < kernel most _definately_ fit into only one segment. > > Venix didn't, but IP and friends was developed on PDP11s! It definately > fit and was run on 11/44s and the like so it would fit on an 11/23. That's > not to say there wasn't whole lto a swapping goin on. > > Allison > >

26 years, 9 months

[OFF TOPIC?] Fixed Freq Monitor Questions

by maynard＠jmg.com

OK, This is mildly on topic. My monitor is an HP 1097C, making it at least 10 years old. However, I am using it with a modern PC, so that's where the 'on topic' issue gets a little iffy. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can answer this question. A pointer to a FAQ would be most welcome. These old monitors are Fixed frequency, unlike our modern monitors which multisync. The 1097C supports only a 78.125 khz Horizontal Scan Rate and a 72hz Vertical Refresh Rate. Now a couple of years ago I foolishly bought one of those cards by Mirage (www.mirage-mmc.com) which is supposed to be a 'fixed freq video card'. Actually, it's an OEM Diamond card, basically an S3/968 video processor with an IBM 52x RAMDAC - ala Diamond Stealth VRAM. The fixed Freq hacks are basically a resistor (and a jumper selection) to drive sync over green, and a homebrew PROM to skew the VESA frequencies for several video and text modes. It works, but Mirage hasn't been too helpful with getting a variety of XFree86 modelines, even though they claim to support Linux and XFree86. They give out _one_ modeline for 1280 x 1024, which they swiped from the XFree86 distribution in 'Monitors.txt'. For Windows and Dos, they give out a video driver which seems to work just fine. It will even display 320x200 full screen (Quake works great in DOS!), and boots to a functional 80x24 col text mode. How the hell do they do this? Here is how I'm calculating my video modes based in the XFree86VideoModes HOWTO (found in every Redhat 5 distribution): Dot Clock Per Second Total Horizontal Pixels Per Line = -------------------------- Horizontal Scanning Rate Since my refresh rate must be at 72hz to sync with the HP1097C: Dot Clock Refresh Rate = ------------------------------------------------- Horizontal Frame Length * Vertical Frame Length So, it's really more constructive to think of this as how many pixels _total_ do I need to display in order to get a 72 hz vertical scan rate with any arbitrary dot clock? In this case I need Dot Clock Total Pixels Per Frame (HFLxVFL) = ------------- Refresh Rate Since I know my Horizontal Pixels Per Line, I can use this to determine the number of vertical lines which will support a 72 hz refresh rate.... hmmm, this is where things get sticky. We'll start with a DCL of 10Mhz... 10Mhz Dot Clock 128 Horizontal Pixels = ----------------------------- 78125 hz Vertical Scan Rate 10 Mhz Dot Clock 138888 Total Pixels = --------------------------- 72 hz Refresh Rate 138888.88 Pixels 1085 Vertical Lines Per Frame = ----------------------- 128 Horizontal Pixels Sheesh! A (total) screen resolution of 128H x 1085V? What about a 20 Mhz dot clock? Well, after graphing the results I quickly observed this: S | T C | o R R | 128H 256H 384H 512H 640H 1728H ** T E E | x x x x x x A E S | 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V L N | | DCL ----+------+-------+-------+-------+------- [...] ----+----- 10 20 30 40 50 135 (** Perfect for a usful screen resolution of 1280x1024) So, based on this, I cannot get small or talored screen resolutions unless I am willing to accept wide borders and strange resolutions. Yet my card works....It does _not_ display this behavior... so I suspect my thinking is to blame. Will someone please correct me? Apologies if you consider this post off topic... J. Maynard Gelinas

26 years, 9 months

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > > 802.. eithernet was always 10mbit/s. The 1.5mhz stuff was > arcnet. They > are similar in that they are both bus topology using CSMA/CD > arbitration. > Not quite. Arcnet was not a CSMA/CD but token passing, more in common with Token Ring rather than Ethernet. Arcnet used a bus, but a token was passed along to each node and that node sent a packet only when it got the token. Whenever a new node came online the rest of the nodes would reconfigure and start the token over again. Collisions only occured when new nodes came on line the first time. IIRC it was Datapoint that first came up with Arcnet for their multi-user terminals. For a small number of static nodes the Arcnet throughput was actually quite good. Whereas ethernet is probabilistic for access, token passing is deterministic in that you are guaranteed a slice of bandwidth to every node. At a minimum you always had roughly 1/n of available bandwidth, where n was the number of nodes. Arcnet degraded in a linear fashion as nodes were added, but Ethernet degradation can approach geometric rates, as anyone knows when they see that collision light on the UTP hub go on solid. Also, Arcnet was 2.5Mbps. The original version used coax (not Ethernet thinwire! I think it was RG-92?) into hubs, later versions went to twisted pair. There was a 20Mbps follow-up from SMC (the primary chip maker for Arcnet) but it never caught on. Arcnet was a common networking standard for S-100 systems in the early to mid 80s, using MP/M and CP/NET from Digital Research. I think it was one of the first network transports supported by NetWare too. Jack Peacock

26 years, 9 months

Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sam, you have to understand that if people don't feel comfortable asking questions on this list, even if they are irrelevant, they won't ask anything at all. You can't intimidate people if you want them to deal with you. In response to the original question: the isolinear chips are supposed to be holographic memory, which is in the works, and will allow terabytes of storage in several cubic centimeters, just like on the Enterprise. The nanites have an advanced version of modern nanomachinery. I would think that .5 micron hard drives are easier in this case. As for the ancient storage, I think that was magnetic. Interestingly enough, the classic trek had almost nothing in the way of computers, though there were plenty of them out there in the '60s >"REALLY". > >Thanks in advance. > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Hotze wrote: > >> Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they >> use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short >> and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can >> transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing >> that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold >> entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, >> little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were >> microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >> ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >> intact. >> Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? >> Feasable? >> Thanks, >> >> Tim D. Hotze >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 04/08/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 9 months

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test-drb April 1998