If anyone's desperate for an AT&T 6300, I saw one for $30. Dunno if it
works, or if it's complete, but it's there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 01:39 PM 2/2/98, you wrote:
> Does it say anything about what it's looking for or what port it expects
>to find it on?
Well, there's only one 25-pin RS232 port on the GRiD, the other serial port
is taken up by a 1200 baud modem (state of the art in 1985). I'm gonna try
to find a cheap one at the next hamfest to tinker with it. Who knows? Maybe
it'll work on the first try. (yeah, right)
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
< I had forgotten that I have a pile of VT 320s, will they work?
ANY vtXXX. A VT320 is ok too. It only has to be RS232 or 20ms interface
and not blockmode. Most of the latter terminals only do rs232/rs423
and 20ma was TTY or DECwriters.
< Sounds like just picking up old software is a waste of time and money.
<It's to be exactly right for the system that it's going on.
Pretty much the case back then or you had to know it was hackable.
< I wondered about using the drives out of an old Osborne model OCC 1 th
<I have.
They may work muost just pull the 360k drives from an XT.
< You're right. I have manuals for NS* CPM, CPM assembler, CPM
<interface, etc. I haven't had time to read all this stuff yet. I'm gla
<you told me that CPM will run on an 8080. I've seen some very old CPM
<stuff but I didn't think I could use it. But there is a chance.
It was never a question. I've been running CPM for 21 years and also
have a NS* horizon thats now 20 years old.
< Actually now that I know what I'm looking for, my NS* CPM manual says
<16K of Ram with an origin of 2000 Hex. I have a bunch of NS* manuals, I
V2.x and later it had to be 20k so that is v1.4 (likely from lifeboat
associates).
<like to find the NS* software that goes with them. BTW the NS* CPM book
<says that the NS* board is supposed to have a PROM on it that contains th
<IPL.
I did say it had a minimal boot.
Allison
<Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS?
<Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then
<transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate
<drivers?
Only if you want to kill both of them. Use the parallel port via laplink
or other software.
Technically it can be done via the bus if you created an interface card
to resolve the bus conflicts that would result from a direct connection.
Allison
< I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal
<I have are big HP things and I don't know if they would work with the
<Altair (too fast?, block mode instead of character mode?)
The hp thing would not work. Try and scrounge up a vt100 or other more
commonplace terminal vt100, vt220, heath/zenith h19, PC running Procomm
or other term program.
< I'm aware to the addresssing problems. Sounds like you have to
<re-address everything to match the program or else hack the programs to
<change all the device adresses, program loation etc.
That's putting it mildly. Some of the CUTS and tarbell format tapes
assumed you were using their monitor programs in rom. If you weren't,
zap, a whole lot of IO code was missing.
< I have a NS disk controller. I don't know if it has a IPL or how that
<has to be done. The manual I have doesn't say. I also need to find a
<Shugart SA 400 to go with NS controller. I know other drives are
<electrically compatable with the SA 400 but I don't know if the track
<spacing and other physical parameters are the same or not. If the physic
<parameters aren't the same then the media would not be compatable.
First you don't have the software manual or the hardware manuals as they
do explain that. The NS* controller has a minimal boot as part of the
hardware. If it's the single density controller it will work with an
8080, however if it's the later double density controller a z80 at 4mhz
is a must. The NS* OS has an area that must be configured to match the
IO in your system if it is not it will boot and hang. As to the disk your
not locked to the sa400 there are hundres of different drives that will
work. Sa400 was 35 tracks 48tpi single sided, any single sided drive
other than a few oddballs will be 48tpi. Most older 360k full or half
height drives will work as well despite being two sided.
< This is an 8080 machine. Will it run CPM? I thought that was for Z80s
Go back and read up on history. CP/M-80 ran on all 8080 systems with
a miimum of 20k ram starting at 0000h, a floopy disk system and some
kind ot terminal.
< Yes, I know. Bill Gates first commercial product.
First commercial hack done using borrowed time on his employers cpu.
Oh, he wan't that good it was Gates and Allen.
Allison
allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote:
> Gee Frank vt100 was not the only thing in the list.
Granted, on re-reading it (and thinking a bit) you did mention an
H19 and that is not a VT100-compatible or superset.
But what really got my attention was the statement that the HP
terminals won't work. They work just fine, providing you've got the
straps set right. And while you can set the straps so the terminal
starts in block mode I can't recall that being done ever in the last
20 years save by accident (typically user getting into config menus
and whacking buttons not knowing how to get back out, getting
frustrated, calling me to come out and reset the configuration).
And what was I really reacting to? Well, yeah, this is one of my hot
buttons from way back, and I apologize if I came across too strong.
> A terminal emulator on a PC was suggested as if you posted here it's a
> fair likelyhood you have a PC. I'd have suggested a MAC and term emulator
> but I don't know that space.
And as I said that's probably more functional. Quite frankly that's
one of the reasons I carry an HP palmtop and keep a couple of the
older HP Portable Pluses around: the former makes a tolerable LCD
VT100-alike and the latter do good VT100 and HP emulation (with
Reflection in ROM).
-Frank McConnell
allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote:
> < I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal
> <I have are big HP things and I don't know if they would work with the
> <Altair (too fast?, block mode instead of character mode?)
>
> The hp thing would not work. Try and scrounge up a vt100 or other more
> commonplace terminal vt100, vt220, heath/zenith h19, PC running Procomm
> or other term program.
Remember complaints about programmers thinking "all the world's a
VAX"? Now it's time to work on the ones who think "all the world's a
VT100."
I used to use an HP2645 as a terminal on a Compupro CP/M system, so
am sure it can be done. But it definitely depends on the expectations
of the software running on the computer. If it isn't assuming
anything more capable than a Teletype, things will be fine. If your
BIOS or other terminal I/O support wants the terminal to do ^S/^Q flow
control it will be disappointed (264xs don't, 262xs and later can be
configured to do so but don't by default). If your applications
expect the terminal to act like a VT100 by way of responding to VT100
or ANSI escape sequences (i.e. suffering from "all the world's a
VT100" disease) then the easiest thing to do is to get a VT100-alike
as Allison suggests.
All that said, if you want help getting the HP terminal working feel
free to ask. If you'd sooner use a terminal emulator on some other
computer, that's OK too and probably more functional.
-Frank McConnell
At 19:54 29/01/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Am I sure they're RJ11, no. They're physically the same jack with six
>live wires. But beyond that, how would I know???
Because DEC plugs are different from RJ11:
RJ 11= 4 pin; DEC=6
They share the same insertion size, but the DEC have "unplug key" not in the
center
as other RJ's
ASCII-SAMPLE I=========I I=========I
I ^^^^ I I ^^^^^^ I
I I I I
I-----i_i-I I---i_i---I
DEC RJ11
>Does Xenix see these when it loads or do I have to tell it?
You need its own device driver to let it go.
>(Xenix/at 2.2.1)
>
>Do you if they are compatible/similar to anything that might recognise
>the board and work it in today's UNIX world???
They were made for today's Unix world.
The problem is to find its own software.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ?
? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ?
? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ?
? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ?
? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
At 13:15 13-01-98 -0500, William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote:
>> Me too! But I think a 4381, say or even a 9370, would be easier to work
>> on.
>
>Getting a 9370 should not be a problem - they are dogs that really were
>not sucessful. I have seen quite a few in the scrap yards (none suitable
>for taking, however).
>
I'll agree it's no problem. I got the old 9370 from my company setting at
home. Paid an official $1 to act as a transfer of ownership. It's just
barely a classic now. Obsolete as heck -not too long after we paid $200k+
for it in '86/'87. Lot of Tylenol used to sooth aching back muscles when I
dragged it home piece-by-piece. (Should have seen the wife look at me...)
It's a dog, but nevertheless, something important in the line of S/370
lineage which I literally rescued from the dumpster.
Notably, it is said to be the first actual production unit sold. Don't
exactly recall complete serial number, but it probably is first since it is
something like xxx0001. Will get back to the list later with SN, etc. if
anybody interested in confirming this.
I need OS books (VSE, I think) and help in bringing her completely up.
Xerox, I believe, kept the OS manuals since they did all the software
maintenace under contract. IBM did hardware maintenance, of course. We used
the Xerox Business Management System (XBMS) product to run our company.
Have virtually all other hardware books and most periferal books safely at
home.
Heard that AIX could run on the 9370 under (I think) VM or something. Any
AIX and VM OS's around that I could scrounge for this iron??
Have tried to bring it up at home but, apparently, lack of certain
periferals it expects to see hung off the terminal ports causes the IPL to
quit before OS completely loads. Need a guru or present-day user to help
figure this out.
Any of you folks willing to help me with this project later in the year???
Wife and I just bought another house and will not be settled until
summertime or later. I'm making provisions during my rewiring of the house
to include a 30A double-pole breaker since the 9370 takes 230V, single
phase. Will duct the air coming out of the CPU to heat the house instead of
using the furnace (just kidding, but there's quite a few BTUs dumped outta
the thing and could keep the house above freezing in the winter at least.)
Will tell the list anything more on this machine if any interest.
Regards, Chris
-- --
=======================================================
Christian Fandt Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home
111 Harding Avenue +716-661-1832 -Office
Jamestown, New York Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax
14701-4746 USA email: cfandt(a)servtech.com
<I remember CUTS, but someone else mentioned 88-ACR and I'd never
Altair cassette interface which was narrow FSK at 300baud. The actual
board set was called 88-ACR and was a mits sio with a modified modem
board (tx/rx frequencies the same).
bell 103 uses differet tones for TX and recieve so for modem use it was
useless. It is however narrow FSK.
Allison
