On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:52:31 -0800 (PST), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
wrote:
> What is a recommend source for inexpensive pink antistatic foam rolls
or
> bags? I've looked in several industrial supply catalogs, like Consolidated
> Packaging, but want to see if there is a better price out there.
>>How about Dumpster Behind An Electronics Manufacturing Plant, Inc.? Look
>>around your area for computer stores, electronics firms, etc. Usually
>>they have a lot of anti-static bags and stuff that they've thrown away.
You know, with all of the collecting that I have done, I have never gone
dumpster diving. I guess that I'm afraid of my embarassment if I get cought.
You know, if someone thought that I was an industrial spy or something.
Who's going to believe that I was just looking for pink foam!
[ Rich Cini/WUGNET
[ ClubWin!/CW7
[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[ Collector of "classic" computers
[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/
<================ reply separator =================>
Er....
I'm freelancing for a US magazine that wants a story (provisionally called
"Rusty Iron") about mainframe collecting and mainframe rescues. Naturally
the deadline's Friday 11/20.
I know there have to be some outlandish stories here and would greatly
appreciate seeing them, either here or in mail, with an eye to arrangement
for publication.
tia,
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
Well, I found a place that supposedly is still selling RD54s, plus a ton of
other stuff for old DEC machines. (they want $200 for an RD54).
see http://www.agoraco.com/cgi-bin/dbshow.cgi
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Jason Willgruber" <roblwill(a)usaor.net> wrote:
>I'm also looking for either the 3.5" floppy for the //c, or a
>5.25" floppy for the Mac (the 3.5 for the //c would be better).
>The drives don't necessarily have to Apple brand, as long as
>they'll work.
From: Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu>
>Does it have any mention of the Commodore TV Game series?
No, Cameron, it dosen't. Sorry...
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
Sam Ismail[SMTP:dastar@ncal.verio.com] writes:
>On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, John Foust wrote:
>> Better yet, convince them that they should sell them on eBay.
>Hey, yeah. Then we can all get 5 for a buck a piece.
Rare! 480 data recorders, dutch auction.
It just occured to me (duh) why epay is a sellers market, it's
because it's a sellers market. I mean, people get into bidding
wars. OBVIOUS but I just noticed *TWO* Dec. 1977 Byte mag's
(Star Trek Cover) for sale - now if I can just get those two
sellers into a price *cutting* war.... ;)
Chuck
cswiger(a)widomaker.com
Hey gang,
I just got my MicroPDP-11/73 running this morning! It works quite well it
seems.
'RSX-11M-PLUS v3.0 BL24D 512.KW SYSTEM:"GOOFY "' is the introductory
line.
Regarding documentation: I have a full set of RSX-11M (non-Plus) manuals
for version 4.2 plus a small Pocket Reference for RSX-11M (non-Plus) ver.
3.1. How close is the RSX-11M-non-Plus 4.2 manuals to RSX-11M+ ver 3.0?
I have absolutely no hardware docs though :(, so I have to depend upon
Sunsite, etc. and you folks.
Anyway, next task is how to get past the user name and password problem.
There recently was a discussion here regarding breaking into an MVII
running VMS. (Watch for a future msg regarding my unsuccessful attempt at
running up my MVII this morning)
Can anybody describe a way to do this under RSX-11M+ v3.0? Of course, there
*may* be something about this in my RSX-11M manuals but please suggest
about which volume! It will take some time for me to get used to where
stuff is in that 'Orange Wall'. VMS and RT-11 are also OSes I will likely
get into and I have most of a 'Grey Wall' for VMS 5.4 and all of RT-11 4.2.
And I need to get back into the IBM 9370 'Wall' sometime too. Sheesh, wish
I had a photographic verbal memory or even something close!
I'm using this PeeCee as a terminal. The simple communications program I
use can capture all text sent from/to the uPDP. After I type-in the time
and date the remains of a rather long script is run and the '>' prompt is
all I get after the dust settles. No users are logged-in and I believe MCR
is the CLI running.
If anybody wants I can email an attached text file of the text lines
displayed while the machine is starting up and running the script. This
should show all the script contents as they're run. I shouldn't post it
here unless a big bunch of folks want to see it. Perhaps I could be
enlightened as to what all is going on while those 80-90 or so lines are
scrolling up the screen.
It has an earlier model processor module: KDJ11-AB (M8192-YB). So I don't
have the fancy bootROM the newer models have as mentioned in the Micronotes
Tim Shoppa pointed us to a day or two ago. Therefore, it is stone quiet
until RSX is started from the disk. Had me wondering if this machine was
dead until I found the correct one of the eight terminal ports and the
right baudrate :)
It has a Syquest cartridge drive. I know absolutely nothing about Syquest
except what I've recently seen here (they're now a dead company somebody
said.) The drive is a model SQ 312RD. Anybody fill me in on the specs, etc?
Carts available???
Any other tape/cartridge drive available I should replace this with? I have
an Emulex TC02 controller in this box, no tape drive at all though. Don't
even know if the Emulex board works as there's no cartridge to try the
Syquest with. Is there a Pertec-formatted tape drive which can hang off the
Emulex which is half-height, 5.25" form (to replace the Syquest)? Software
drivers??
I have no other way to back the system up at this time (floppies are
probably out of the question because of quantity needed and huge PITA-factor)
Yes, as I mentioned some months ago, I would be asking 'newbie' questions
about some of this load of DEC gear I got. So here I go . . . more
questions to come on this and other stuff as I get time. . .
Thanks much, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 Chuck McManis wrote:
>My understanding of MO drives was the the servo tracks were optical (and
>thus very dense and accurate) but the data tracks were still magnetic with
>a conventional read/write/erase head.
No. The old "floptical" drives (made by Insite?) were I believe like that. Of
course this method doesn't have any greater data integrity than a floppy disk.
(What follows is really an oversimplification.)
Magneto-optical drives use, as the name suggests, both magnetic and optical
effects to read and write data. A layer within the media contains magnetically
sensitive elements. When this layer is heated to its "Curie point", about 200
degrees C, the polarity of the magnetic elements can be changed by an external
magnetic field from the drive head.
To write data, the laser heats up the target areas of the disk, and the
magnetic field is applied to record all 0s. On the next revolution of the
disk, the magnetic field is changed, and the laser heats up only those areas
which are to have 1s recorded.
This magnetic field does not have to be localised, so there is no magnetic head
in contact with the disk surface. Because the written polarity is "frozen into"
the disk, MO disks are not susceptible to magnetic fields as magnetic media
are.
To read data from the disk, the laser is used at a low power. Depending on the
magnetic polarity, the polarity of the laser light reflected from the disk is
rotated a few degrees either way. This rotation is called the Kerr effect. The
drive detects this, and thus determines whether a 0 or 1 was read.
"LIMDOW" media uses a slightly different method, which enables writes to occur
with no erase pass.
On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 Stephen Dauphin wrote:
>I'm not sure if the magnetic head in an MO bears any relation to the
>heads of other magnetic media drives. The reason for this thought is the
I don't think it does; the magnet is not used for reading, and its purpose is
to generate a magnetic field whose polarity only changes at a per-disk-
revolution scale, not a per-bit-written scale.
>each tiny heated spot is extremely small. It also doesn't have to be
>particualrly well targeted so I would think the head can be large, coarse
>and not particularly close to the platter.
That's right.
>I also gather it is not a fluctuating magnetism but simply a single
>direction attraction or repulsion. You need the two states, one to zero
>the section of disk and the other to write the bits that will be ones.
True. Even for LIMDOW media (which allows for improved write speed since no
erase pass is needed) the magnetic field polarity is constant over the whole
revolution.
>partition and initialize just like hard disks using hard disk formatting
>software. Or maybe they really don't do the format part. I notice, after
>pulling the shutter back, that the platter has small radial marks,
>seemingly corresponding to sectors. The disks also come with a fixed
>number of bytes per sector. Anybody know?
You can format them, both high level and low level providing you use the
appropriate software. If you have a Fujitsu drive, check their web site as
driver s/w and OEM manuals are available there. There is also free Mac MO
driver s/w at the Pinnacle Micro web site.
A low-level format allows you to tell the drive to rescan the disk surface and
map out any bad blocks using a sector slipping algorithm. This is normally
done at the factory. However, a very old disk may have more blocks mapped out
over time due to dust. After cleaning the disk, you could reformat it to be
able to access these blocks again. (Not that this really matters, e.g. a 640MB
disk has over 2000 spare blocks, so bad blocks don't actually reduce the
amount of data you can store -- but blocks found bad during use cannot be
remapped by sector slipping, so access to these is slower.)
MO disks have a fixed sector size; that's what the radial marks are for. For
3.5" disks this is either 512 bytes (for 128MB, 230MB and 540MB disks) or 2048
bytes (for 640MB disks). Unlike some hard disks, it is not possible to change
the sector size by doing a low-level format.
The data "density" of 540MB and 640MB disks is the same, the difference in
capacity being due to the different sector sizes. The same goes for 2.3GB vs
2.6GB 5.25" disks etc.
Another good thing about MO is that it is backwards-compatible, e.g. on my
640MB drive I can read and write 128MB, 230MB and 540MB disks.
>I guess they are cleanable. The disk seems to be made of a polcarbonate
>plastic. A manual cleaning doesn't look too easy as you would have to
Fujitsu and other manufacturers make cleaning kits for both drive and disks.
The disk cleaning kit holds the shutter back, and you turn a knob to revolve
the disc inside while wiping with a cloth.
I recently bought a dual-purpose MD/MO disk cleaning kit; cost was about the
equivalent of US$5. For the drive itself, you just put a special disk in the
drive and after about 10 seconds the drive spits it out.
>They are a little slow but faster than a diskette. Best read throughput I
>get is about 500Kb per second and when writing, the pace is about half
640MB drives are significantly faster than that, and modern units have a 2MB
cache which can speed up reads and writes significantly. Some 5.25" drives
have 4MB cache.
Data transfer rate for the current generation of 640MB 3.5" drives with
540/640MB disks is 2.8-4.7MB/s, random seek time 28ms. You'll achieve near
that for reading. Writing may be 1/3 of this unless you use LIMDOW media
and/or disable the automatic write-verify feature.
>that. One thing I do like is the lack of noise. Except for the fan, mine
>are dead silent and I have been contemplating whether I can eliminate
>that. Anybody know how hot would be too hot for the drive and disk?
Proper cooling is a good idea for MO drives, though you could always try
disabling the fan. The drive should shut itself down if the temperature gets
too high -- indeed you can interrogate the drive to determine what the problem
is; see the OEM manuals. Operating drive temp should be between 5 - 45 degrees
C.
-- Mark
This was sent to the list owners rather than the list itself. Original
sender was Xerox860(a)aol.com .
--
Rebekah Skiver Client Services
bskiver(a)cac.washington.edu Computing & Communications
206-543-8121 Box 355670, University of Washington
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Xerox860(a)aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:59:40 EST
To: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: 860
Hi. I am patent atty, and have 7 working 860's.
There were two types, one with a thick cable to the printer, and the printer
was a HY-TYPE II, not a 630.
A newer version used a small cable, DB 25 collector on the rear of the
printer, and the cable could be disconnected easily. This is a Diablo 630 Pl.
If you have the earlier version with the HY-TYPE II printer, I suggest that
you do your computing with the printer disconnected, as it seems as if a
design problem causes the l2 volt board to go. We have ordered a number of
replacement boards for our machines, and if the printer is not connected, the
supply stays put properly, and you can create, backup, initialize, and do what
ever else you wish.
XEROX does not help on this unit. Most of the employees don't even know what
an 860 is. I do not have a good fix for this supply problem, aside from
pulling the plug on the printer, which is, of course, a terrible idea. The
problem does not exist with the later versions using the thin cable to the 630
Diablo printer.
Indicentally, a good reference on printers is available from The Printer
Works, out in California. E mail me if you wish, because the address is at my
office.
I have a few spare operator manuals which I can send, if you are interested.
The machine is a fantastic piece of technology.
Kind regards. Ken Lehmann. 5 Kent Rd., Easton, CT tel. 203.372.7695.
