test-drb October 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

175 participants
1141 discussions

Marketing (was Re: Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I think that the amount of marketing necessary is related to the quality and value of the product itself. After all, if a computer is reeealy good, only a simple demonstration is necessary and it will be bought. If the product is nothing new, then $150m will be spent making it successfull. >> >> > Perhaps I'm cynical, ... >> > But I maintain that what determines the course of the industry is NOT the >> > quality of the technology, but the marketing. How else do you explain >> > the successes of IBM, MS, etc.? Surely not due to their superior >> > quality?!? >> >> No, not the "M" word! We just had a "marketing" thread and the term was >> tossed around like it was this magical thing that was responsible for >> everything that couldn't be explained by technical merit. > >It doesn't explain everything, but you'd be a fool to think marketing is >not responsible for at least 50% of a product's success (and that's being >conservative). > >> First of all, IBM can hardly be called successful. *In spite* of all the >> "marketing" they did, Taiwanese with no marketing at all were able to >> completely erode their PC market share. > >Let me get this straight...you're saying IBM can hardly be called >successful? This must be a typo. > I have seen several who think IBM is a failure. Once, I was at a computer store with another person, getting a computer repaired. THe other person asked the tech 'So, do you think Apple will survive?' The answer was quick: 'Sure, IBM survived, didn't it?' I asked her what she meant. She said, 'Well, their entire PS/2 line was killed off'. For one thing, the PS/2 shows that with great marketing and technology, a product can still fail. Secondly, it would appear that in most people's minds, everything before the PC is a haze. >where they did today. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

25 years, 9 months

Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >> < So, is Columbus less important because the Vikings reached the Americas >> < before him? Or is it only important that most of the lasting effects >> < descend from Columbus? > >Columbus is a superb analogy for this thread! Not that the results >necessarily match, but that MANY related issues are also present. > >Columbus is the "canonical" discoverer, in spite of the Vikings, or even >the previously existing "colonists" who had been living there for a LONG >time ever since coming over the Bering straits? Well, that 'canonicity' of this is beginning to change. >Likewise, the Intel 4004 is the "canonical" first microprocessor, in >spite of other previous units that might or might not meet various >definitions. Unlike the columbus question, most people neither know nor care who made the first microprocessor or what serial number it was. Just about every m.p. is considered first by _someone_. >> . . . >> Better put, the vikings were here. Columbus told the world two things, >> it's not flat and there are great riches in the east. Somewhere in ther >> is the difference in those explorations goals. > >Since FEW have ever heard anything about this other than TOTAL BS in school, >it bears looking at some of the distortions. What is taught in school is >even less accurate than would be a history of computers by MS, IBM, >Intel, or Apple. In line with the use of it as an analogy, it is useful >to look at how distorted it has become, and realize that the same thing >happens quite quickly in fields such as ours. It happens in all fields. It will always happen. We're doing it now. There is nothing new under the sun. >but quite costly. > >Columbus did NOT tell the world that it wasn't flat. By the time of >Columbus, that was well known and accepted by all educated people. The >only ones who still thought that it was flat are now paying dollars per >minute for telephone psychic readings. Although there were some fears of >dangers, sailing off the edge was NOT taken seriously as a possibility by >anybody with any education. As a matter of fact, the Romans knew that the world was round. The knowledge was lost for about 8 centuries. >it was just too far going that way. Even the diameter and circumference >of the earth had been reasonably accurately computed (showing that the >shortest route to the Indies was still to the east). > >But Columbus had an inaccurate, wrong, crackpot theory that the earth was >about one third the size that had been calculated. Thus, he was convinced >that it WOULD be shorter going west. There are a lot of other issues >involved with his funding, etc. Never knew that. All progress is made by unreasonable men... >He set off, and lo and behold, encountered land somewhere near to where >the Indies would have been if he had been right about his 1/3 size theory. > >BTW, his very first recorded words about the existing inhabitants were: >"a good source for slaves". > >> An aside to this is while Intel is currently the apparent successful >> leader en masse we still don't know how it will play over time yet to >> come. There have been near reversals in the past and it would only take >> the next design leap to change the current course. Also the industry is >> only 30 years old in a century where we are still developing fundemental >> technologies. > >Perhaps I'm cynical, ... >But I maintain that what determines the course of the industry is NOT the >quality of the technology, but the marketing. How else do you explain >the successes of IBM, MS, etc.? Surely not due to their superior >quality?!? Well, IBM really had very little competition. DEC and Data General were quite successful too. But, since IBM was already around making typewriters and card punchers, it was already firmly established in the market. Did NCR ever venture into mainframes and minis, BTW? I have seen a nicely designed AT clone of theirs. > >And progressive improvement in hardware ... Only among people who submit to marketing and not quality. >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

25 years, 9 months

RQDX2 & 3 jumpers

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 11, 10:46, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: Re: RQDX2 & 3 jumpers > Bruce Lane spoke: > > I've posted jumper and cabling details of the RQDX2 and RQDX3 to my web > Great! This answers some of my questions. Now to show what an ingrate I > am, does anyone have any info on the following jumpers: > > W12..W17 These set the starting "logical unit number" for board, as a binary number (W12=LSB, W17+MSB). If you have multiple RQDXn boards, you'd typcally set the second card to start with LUN 4, the third with LUN 8, etc. Jumper out = 0, jumper in = 1. > W23 -- I think this is for what kind of cabinet that the card is in. No, it controls the HEADSEL 3 and REDUCWRTI signals. W23 has 4 posts numbeerd 1..4. Factory setting is 1-2 jumpered on early firmware, 1-2 and 3-4 for version 2 firmware (ROMs 23-243E5/23-244E5) or later. Alternatively, you can jumper 2-3, which has the effect of connecting HEADSEL 3 to pin 9 of J1, and REDUCWRTI to pin 22. That allows you to use hard drives with more than 8 heads. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 9 months

SCO Unix (Older version)

by kyrrin＠jps.net

FWIW, I've listed an older version of SCO Unix up on Haggle. The URL is: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201787290 Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

25 years, 9 months

RQDX2 & 3 jumpers

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I've posted jumper and cabling details of the RQDX2 and RQDX3 to my web site. With apologies for the lousy navigational interface (no Next/Previous keying yet), anyone who needs to can find it at: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin Follow the link tagged 'TechLinks' and scroll down near the bottom of the page. The info is in multiple .GIF files. Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

25 years, 9 months

dishwasher + mainboards

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

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25 years, 9 months

dishwasher + mainboards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Okay, I just ran the mainboard to my 64 through the dishwasher. Does an < know what the material between the metal noise shield and the board is, < why it expanded during dishwashing? And if it will shrink again as it < cools and dries? I didn't run the thing through the dry cycle either. Fishpaper as some call it. It's a thick stiff paper put ther to prevent shorts. If you put it in with the shield in place you will have to remove it and dry it, maybe replacing the paper. A useable replacement is manila (72 or144lb card stock). < It is VERY clean... :) You still have to dry it out well! Allison

25 years, 9 months

MAC Portables (The BIG ones)

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: Are there any of you out there looking for these beasts? I know somebody who's got a 5120 and a 5126. He's asking $50 each (too high in my opinion), but the price ought to be negotiable. I know he also has at least one power brick, and an NOS portable battery charger (M0275). Send me personal e-mail if there is any interest. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

25 years, 9 months

FW: FREE HP3000

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Just passing this on.... Reply to the fellow who wrote the orig. NG message! Found this in comp.sys.hp.hardware: >From: Alec Gagne <alec(a)eclipsesystems.com> >Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp.mpe,comp.sys.hp.hardware,comp.sys.hp >Subject: FREE HP3000 >Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:14:27 -0700 > >Free, to a good home! > > HP3000 Series 37 Mini Computer > Series 37 CPU > 1 Meg RAM > 7 Ports (6 ATP and 1 ADCC) > 2 HP7945 55 MB Disk Drives > 3 HPIB cables > 1 HP9144 1/4 inch Tape Drive w/about 10 tapes. > 1 HP Cabinet with internal rails > 1 HP2392A 14 inch Terminal & Keyboard > > ( About the size of a Full Tower PC but twice as thick ) > >The machine loads to MPE V-Delta-5 (Version G.B3.05) operating system >I have the an original OS load tape. > >Everything is in GOOD condition, and it runs! I used it as a >development machine for writing COBOL code up until last year. > >I tried to sell it, but nobody was interested. The computer junk >dealers will "take it off my hands" for scrap. I would rather give >it away to someone/anyone who needs it/wants it or just wants to >learn about it, than have it scapped for parts. > >The only loop hole is you have to come pick it up. It is heavy and >expensive to ship, and I don't particularly want to haul it down to >the UPS office. > >I am in San Jose California. >First come first serve, limited quantity (1). > > >Regards > >Alec > > >-- >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eclipse Systems -- Business & Public Sector Solutions Since 1989 > P.O. Box 53435 San Jose, California 95153 USA (408) 362-1651 > http://www.eclipsesystems.com > > Provider of CrimeStar -- http://www.CrimeStar.net >-------------------------------------------------------------------- Happy HP collecting! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

25 years, 9 months

Fairchild Channel F (was: Re: Corrections to trivia)

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Hi I could pick one up for you if you want, there's on that has been around a thrift store here for some time now. They want $25 for it but I can negotiate. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >Speaking of which... how common are the Channel Fs? I picked up several >cartridges for one some time ago, but I've never seen the actual unit. >I've only seen ads for them in old magazines. > >-- >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > >

25 years, 9 months

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test-drb October 1998