< I don't think a Cincinati Millicron would hardly be considered a
<"Personal Computer" no matter what the number of owners.
That specific machine was about the same size as a PDP-8e and about 60
pounds. For that era that was very compact and light. But personal it
was as at that time it resided in my bedroom while I was trying to write
some simple code via asr33/ptape.
< The 5100 was IBM's first "Personal Computer" (their words). It had
<BASIC or APL or both!
The HP system predated it but, I may have the number wrong. It was
programmed in industrial BASIC.
Allison
I've got one in the basement... six-seven years ago, I even had it
fired up over DECnet, talking to Macs and Amigas over Ethernet.
Haven't gotten around to documenting it for my web page, though.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
But then where would the mac (toaster style) fit? Computer or system?
I am not sure the term computer to differenciate the box styles is adequate
since they are all basically "Computers" I guess what I'm trying to find is
a term to differenciate the packaging of computers.
Also consoles is used for video games that plugs on the TV and would cause
confusion.
System is a pretty broad designation that can describe a lost of things.
Am I getting picky or what? Maybe we need to invent some terms a la jargon
in order to differentiate the various types of packaging.
>For computers like the C-64, the TI-99/4a, Atari 800, etc. I call the CPU
>a "console". Basically, anything with an integrated CPU, keyboard and
>video output I call a console. I don't tend to think of things like the
>Apple ][ as "consoles" because they didn't use a TV as their monitor by
>default, which the above systems generally did (there goes my Apple ][
>bias again). But really, the Apple ][ fits my description of "console".
>
>The all-in-one dealies like the TRS-80 Model II/III and their ilk would
>be "computers" because they have all the basic adjuncts to define an
>entire computer in the most generic sense of the word (CPU, keyboard,
>display, storage).
>
>Piece-part systems like the IBM, I'd call "systems" because you have a
>system consisting of a CPU and peripherals, such as the keyboard, monitor,
>disk drives, perhaps a mouse...
>
>Also, things like a PDP or DG Nova would be "systems", but I think people
>prefer to refer to them as "mini's".
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
I meant by the original posting to try to gather a list of firsts. Any definitions of first are acceptable and if they can be extended to familly of hardware, software, packaging gimmicks etc. is OK.
What I found interesting in the question is more in the order of finding out how long an idea has been out there and how many categories can be found. I see a lot of questions about defining such and such term I guess it is more fun to find out what YOU understand by the words OS, Personal computer, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Francois Auradon <francois.auradon(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 6:18 AM
Subject: Firsts
Here's a questionthat is probably going to generate some passionate debates:
What are the firsts?
first video game
first TV video game
first personal computer (I think I know that one)
first portable computer
first laptop
first GUI
first OS
etc...
It would be interesting to compile a list of first with their date of appearance.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Francois Auradon.
Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon
At 11:13 PM 1/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>When I go back tomorrow, I'm going to try to pick up the HP IPC, Kaypro
>2000, and DG One I saw. (:
>
>
What were they wanting for the HP IPC? If you don't want it, I'll take
it off your hands. BE SURE to look around for any external HP disk drives!
Get an HP-IB cable or two if they have them but don't let them overcharge
you for them. A lot of people act like they're made of gold.
Joe
classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subj: Re: Firsts
Allison J Parent wrote:
>You missed calculators and there are rough catagories:
>
>First eletronic calc
>
>first pocket calc
>
>HP35 $700, the lowcost market breaker being the Bomar Brain.
>
>First programable calc
Then there is the "first solid state electronic calc" which I think goes to
the Busicom from Japan that employed the first production run of the intel
4000 chip set: the 4001 (2048 bit ROM), 4002 (320 bit RAM), 4003 (10 bit
shift register), and the 4004 (4 bit CPU). That chip set was shipped to
Busicom in March 1971 according to Michael S. Malone's "The Microprocessor:
A Biography" ISBN 0-387-94342-0 (which is not a great book: much content was
apparently largely dictated by the PR departments of a few Silicon Valley
companies and thrown together much as a newspaper article would be. It
nontheless contains some interesting photos and bibliographic references
and I think was the result of a rushed editorial deadline (why would a
publisher rush a history book?)).
><first OS
>
>This is real old likely in the late 40s early 50s and was likely a
>machine monitor system to load/save programs. Even the PDP-1 had an OS
>to timeshare multiple users. You may have to be more specific as to tthe
>type or style of OS as there are several and the appearance of each
>corosponds to emerging concepts in computing.
There are references to the operation of the IBM/Harvard Mark I (programming
loops were constructed by literally looping the input tape back on itself e.g.)
It could be argued that such an early machine was not a stored program computer
hence could not even support an OS. If however one does not limit oneself
to only software notions of OS then the "Start" button could be considered to
be an OS - implemented in hardware. I personally don't know much about the
early Sperry Rand or Manchester->Ferranti computers (first commercial computers)
since so much of the widely available literary records are dominated by IBM's
history, but certainly by the time of the IBM 705 (mid 50's) there were OSes.
Few of the early ones were time-sharing and many were not even "full-duplex".
Peter Prymmer
You missed calculators and there are rough catagories:
First eletronic calc
first pocket calc
HP35 $700, the lowcost market breaker being the Bomar Brain.
First programable calc
<first personal computer (I think I know that one)
If you mean PC (as in the IBM PC) then the answer is IBM. However if you
man pc as in personally owned computer, then you go back by maybe 10-20
years to things like old surplus missle computers, homebrewed systems and
PDP-8s and the like. Prior to the IBM abortion pc meant personally owned
and was not based on what it was but who owned it. Personally owned
computers was a new thing starting in the late 60s to early 70s. Around
72-73 it was possible to buy a used PDP-8 or CM2000 for a few thousand
dollars. I know in December of 72 I almost bought a Cincinati Millicron
CM2000 for the offered price of $2000(big bucks then) with 8k of core,
serial line card and 6port muxed serial card.
<first portable computer
Define portable as I'd seen totables in the late 70s. One very nice one
was an expanded EVK68 board in a classy wood case with a small crt and
keyboard.
One that comes to mind was the HP(5100?) complete packaged system with
tape for storage and basic and GPIB for external interface.
<first laptop
Not sure but it wasnt a dos based for sure. Tandy trs100 or the similar
NEC, Epson, and others.
<first GUI
Xerox PARC smalltalk
<first OS
This is real old likely in the late 40s early 50s and was likely a
machine monitor system to load/save programs. Even the PDP-1 had an OS
to timeshare multiple users. You may have to be more specific as to tthe
type or style of OS as there are several and the appearance of each
corosponds to emerging concepts in computing.
Allison
>I picked up an Amigo computer today from a thrift store. Now, this is
>something cool as I have never seen one before and it is an interesting
>design for its time.
>
>The CPU and CRT are in one unit. In fact, at first I thought this was
>simply a dumb terminal because normally when you had a computer with
>integrated CPU/CRT it was a lot bulkier than this one is. The motherboard
>on this is tucked right under the tube. It has a Z-80 CPU and a 6502 (I'm
>assuming the 6502 is for the video display). The keyboard is an IBM XT
>keyboard (same key layout) but it has a 1/4" phono plug that connects to
>the front of the CRT/CPU (just like the Apple Lisa keyboard). I also got
>a dual half-height disk drive unit for it and two boxes of 5.25" floppies
>with programs such as WordStar, Supercalc, etc. I got a couple CP/M
>master disks with it as well.
I have something called an Amigo, made (although the name is hard to
read) by Surwave. Mind you, it could well be a Surwave made by Amigo. :)
It also has the z80 and the 6502 on the mother board, but it is not an
all-in-one unit. Indeed, it looks a bit like the Aplle ][. I have done
what research that I could, and so far have learnt that it was a Korean
Apple ][ clone, that could run cp/m or Apple software. They were made in
the very early eighties, and were imported into Australia via a person
who still resides in Adelaide. I have tracked down some information
about him, but have yet to find the person himself. They were quite
popular here, but few survived - mine didn't, as it won't show anything
on the screen. I am considering getting it repaired, but I don't know
enough to do it myself.
Anyway, I imagine that your computer is another model by the same people
- try an Apple boot disk and see what happens. :)
If you want I can continue to try and track down the importer. I know he
stopped importing computers and went into the computer embroidery
business, which does give me something to work with, anyway. I had given
up as I had covered almost everyone I could find who had anything to do
with old Apples, but there are still a couple of loose leads. I'm sure he
would know about any other systems made by the company.
Adam.
This weekend, I decided to replace the rotting foam in my RK05 drives.
BTW, self-adhesive weather striping seems to fit well. Home Depot carries
one in white (3/8" square) that works for the disk pack air intake. There is
also a black one, 7/16" x 3/4" that works for the foam between the blower
motor and the card cage.
Anyway, I digress. When I finished replacing the foam, I made sure that
I vacuumed up any foam particles. I powered-up my 11/34a, and now neither
drive gives me an "On Cylinder" light.
AFAIR, inserting a disk pack and pressing "load" would produce a
distinctive hum, indicating that the spindle motor is starting. Now, I get
no hum. Looking inside, I don't see the spindle running. Also, for the first
time, one drive popped its circuit breaker. It's almost like both spindles
are stuck. They're not, though; I checked (While looking into the spindle
motor and spinning the disk spindle I can see the motor fan move.)
I did not disconnect any wires during this process. Any clues?
BTW, what's the little red switch on the power supply board for?
Thanks for the help, again.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
<a M9192? The list I have shows it as being a "DUAL HEIGHT CPU BRD", whic
<is "real" informative! According to the list I've got the 23's CPU's hav
<different numbers.
M8186 PDP-11/23 (KDF11A)
M8189 PDP-11/23 (KDF11B)
<
<They both have 256KW of 18-bit memory. This brings up an interesting
<question, how many bytes are there in in a Word when you're talking
<PDP-11's? Since it's 18 my guess would be 2 with parity bits.
Correct the extra are parity and it's always 2 8bit bytes to a 16bit word.
<SCD-RQD11/EC -- this one had 6 connectors for ribbon cables
I believe this is a distribution board for the RQDX1/2/3 floppy/hard disk
controllers.
<M8059-KP -- I believe it's 64k, is it for PDP?
256kb(128kw) parity memory.
<M3104 DHV11 -- It's got two ribbon connectors, by guess is it's for addi
<other terminals. I seem to have a pair.
These are terminal line controllers with silos and modem controls. Handy!
<Distributed Logic Corp. DQ342 -- no idea, two ribbon connectors
Unknown to me.
<Plessey P/N 70590-100A -- looks to be a RAM board
There were a lot of third part ram suppliers.
Allison
