23 Jan
2019
23 Jan
'19
6:20 p.m.
I learn something? new? then... when? ?was? palladium?used?? ?was it? around in? the?
2100? hp? days or? was this? ?used? later?? ?and? I had not heard of? it?
Ed#In a message dated 1/23/2019 6:47:02 PM US Mountain Standard Time, paulkoning at
comcast.net writes:
palladium
24 Jan
24 Jan
8:28 a.m.
On 01/23/2019 08:20 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
I learn something new then... when was palladium
used? was it around in the 2100 hp days or was this used later? and I had
not heard of it?
If palladium was used, it was in VANISHINGLY small
quantities. Many circuit boards use palladium to seed the
plating in the plated-through holes. But, the amounts there
are in the micrograms for a whole board. I suspect if
palladium was used in multilayer caps that it was used for
the same purpose, a wash over the surface of the capacitor
material, allow it to dry and then electroplate with the
desired electrode material. They'd probably use a couple
milligrams at most on each layer of a capacitor sheet, which
would eventually be cut up into hundreds of thousands of caps.
Some high-value MLCs can have 20 layers or so, so that would
be milligrams * 20 / 100,000.
Not a hell of a lot of palladium would be in an entire board
full of them.
Jon
9:01 a.m.
I know folks get bent out of shape over board scrap listings, but like Will
said, there's actual money in those boards. It's my opinion that it
benefits the hobby to have scrappers listing stuff on eBay rather than just
putting them in the next Gaylord to go to the gold refiner guy. Of course,
I'd still rather have the whole machine get saved, but this stuff *is* junk
to 99% of the population.
I buy a lot of board scrap, both online and from clients, to either recover
parts for reuse, or to refurb boards (if they're in good enough shape). A
lot of it really is otherwise junk (boards from low volume custom
applications, stuff that's had catastrophic failures, etc.) and the scrap
guys for the most part don't really know the difference between "really is
junk" and "is something people want and will pay money for."
Jay, if you're really willing to pay out $300 for the one board, I'll see
if I can't acquire this lot of scrap too. I have no personal interest in HP
stuff, so anyone else wanting some is free to buy it. I won't try and get
it unless folks here are wanting to split it up though.
Thanks,
Jonathan
On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 11:29 AM Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 01/23/2019 08:20 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
If palladium was used, it was in
VANISHINGLY small
quantities. Many circuit boards use palladium to seed the
plating in the plated-through holes. But, the amounts there
are in the micrograms for a whole board. I suspect if
palladium was used in multilayer caps that it was used for
the same purpose, a wash over the surface of the capacitor
material, allow it to dry and then electroplate with the
desired electrode material. They'd probably use a couple
milligrams at most on each layer of a capacitor sheet, which
would eventually be cut up into hundreds of thousands of caps.
Some high-value MLCs can have 20 layers or so, so that would
be milligrams * 20 / 100,000.
Not a hell of a lot of palladium would be in an entire board
full of them.
Jon
I learn something new then... when was
palladium used? was it
around in the 2100 hp days or was this used later?
and I had not
heard of it?
9:02 a.m.
Good, older MLCCs can be up to 3 or 4 percent Palladium by weight.
Modern-ish ones can be zero, but are often maybe 0.1 percent.
It adds up. Remember, Palladium is *heavy*, ceramic is not.
--
Will
On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 11:29 AM Jon Elson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 01/23/2019 08:20 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
I learn something new then... when was
palladium used? was it around in the 2100 hp days or was this used later? and
I had not heard of it?
If palladium was used, it was in VANISHINGLY small
quantities. Many circuit boards use palladium to seed the
plating in the plated-through holes. But, the amounts there
are in the micrograms for a whole board. I suspect if
palladium was used in multilayer caps that it was used for
the same purpose, a wash over the surface of the capacitor
material, allow it to dry and then electroplate with the
desired electrode material. They'd probably use a couple
milligrams at most on each layer of a capacitor sheet, which
would eventually be cut up into hundreds of thousands of caps.
Some high-value MLCs can have 20 layers or so, so that would
be milligrams * 20 / 100,000.
Not a hell of a lot of palladium would be in an entire board
full of them.
Jon 
9:28 a.m.
On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 11:03 AM William Donzelli via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Good, older MLCCs can be up to 3 or 4 percent
Palladium by weight.
Modern-ish ones can be zero, but are often maybe 0.1 percent.
I just checked - spot Palladium price is $44/g. If you take 1 lb of
these older MLCCs and recover 4% by weight of Palladium from that, you
get $800, gross. No idea what the extraction process costs, so no
idea of the net profit, but that's the current math on the collection
side.
-ethan
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