8 Apr
2021
8 Apr
'21
5:13 a.m.
Dear all,
I am looking for a version of the VAXSET Software Engineering Tools to
run on (Micro)VMS 4.7. The oldest version I have found so far is
VAXSET010 which requires VMS 5.3 to run (this was on CSD 1991/05.)
VAXSET is a bundle of the following components (and more in newer
versions):
- CMS (Code Management System)
- LSE (Language Sensitive Editor)
- SCA (Source Code Analyzer)
- MMS (Module Management System)
- PCA (Performance Coverage Analyzer)
- DTM (DEC/Test Manager)
I have found versions of CMS and MMS seperately that run on VMS 4.x. If
anyone has old versions of the other components and is willing to share,
that would be much appreciated :-)
Cheers,
Malte
--
Malte Dehling
<mdehling at gmail.com>
16 Apr
16 Apr
6:11 a.m.
Dear all,
On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 02:13:58PM +0200, Malte Dehling wrote:
I am looking for a version of the VAXSET Software
Engineering Tools to
run on (Micro)VMS 4.7. The oldest version I have found so far is
VAXSET010 which requires VMS 5.3 to run (this was on CSD 1991/05.)
I was informed of a typo: the version I have is VAXSET100, so v10.0. I
am still looking for earlier versions (v8.0 already requires VMS 5.x.)
If anyone has an early 1990 (or older) Consolidated Software
Distribution CD: that should contain VAXSET v7.0 and I would love to
obtain a copy.
Or maybe someone still has an old VAXSET TK50 tape? I have working TK50
drives and am happy to pay a reasonable price and deal with tape baking
etc if needed.
Cheers,
Malte
--
Malte Dehling
<mdehling at gmail.com>
10:03 a.m.
On 16/04/2021 14:11, Malte Dehling via cctalk wrote:
I was informed of a typo: the version I have is
VAXSET100, so v10.0. I
am still looking for earlier versions (v8.0 already requires VMS 5.x.)
If anyone has an early 1990 (or older) Consolidated Software
Distribution CD: that should contain VAXSET v7.0 and I would love to
obtain a copy.
Or maybe someone still has an old VAXSET TK50 tape? I have working TK50
drives and am happy to pay a reasonable price and deal with tape baking
etc if needed.
Cheers,
Malte
I was going to tell you that I have an early CD that was obviously an
early CONDIST dated something like 1992, so you were unlikely to find a
pre-1990 CD set.
Just to check that my memory wasn't playing tricks I went and looked for
it. I stopped looking before finding int because I found
AG-MN36D-RE VMS Consolidated Software Disk May 1989
and
AG-NC67A-RE VMS Online Documentation Library May 1989
:-)
I'll check them out in SIMH later on tonight, but if they look suitable
I can probably make the ISOs available via dropbox or similar.
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
11:38 a.m.
Hi Antonio,
On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 06:03:45PM +0100, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
On 16/04/2021 14:11, Malte Dehling via cctalk wrote:
thanks a lot for checking, that looks great! I didn't even know _such_
early versions existed :-)
If anyone has an early 1990 (or older)
Consolidated Software
Distribution CD: that should contain VAXSET v7.0 and I would love to
obtain a copy.
Just to check that my memory wasn't playing tricks I went and looked
for it. I stopped looking before finding int because I found
AG-MN36D-RE VMS Consolidated Software Disk May 1989
and
AG-NC67A-RE VMS Online Documentation Library May 1989 I'll check them out in SIMH later on tonight, but
if they look suitable I
can probably make the ISOs available via dropbox or similar.
Whether VAXSET is on there or not, I would be very interested in ISOs of
both of these either way!
Cheers,
Malte
--
Malte Dehling
<mdehling at gmail.com>
17 Apr
17 Apr
12:15 a.m.
On Apr 16, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Malte Dehling via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Whether VAXSET is on there or not, I would be very interested in ISOs of
both of these either way!
If Antonio does not mind sharing them a bit more widely, I would also like to have ISOs of
them. I'm interested in running earlier VMS versions on my 11/730.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
https://www.nf6x.net/
8:53 a.m.
On 4/17/2021 2:15 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
I too would be interested if it is possible to get disk images of these two CDs.
--
John H. Reinhardt
On Apr 16, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Malte Dehling via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Whether VAXSET is on there or not, I would be very interested in ISOs of
both of these either way!
If Antonio does not mind sharing them a bit more widely,
I would also like to have ISOs of them. I'm interested in running earlier VMS versions
on my 11/730.
9:24 a.m.
On 17/04/2021 16:53, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk wrote:
On 4/17/2021 2:15 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
I too would be interested if it is possible to get disk images of
these two CDs.
I'll make them available to all.
May 1989 wouldn't load up at all in the DVD drive. When I looked at the
data side they were very badly scuffed.
July 1989 and November 1989 look better but don't read completely. I've
tried some CD cleaning solution I have and I've also tried a different
drive (and a different OS!).
I'll try them out on SIMH and if they're even partially useful, I'll
post them. They should be backup savesets, so it should be easy to tell
if those have been corrupted or not with BACKUP/ANALYSE.
If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data, I'm
all ears.
These came out of DEC and were probably dropped off in my cube (as the
group was being sold off to Cabletron) after years of kicking around and
being used as coasters etc.
The ones that I was on a subscription list were looked after and still
work :-) (but they're V6 onwards iirc).
I suppose that I should start to archive those too, but it will take
some time.
I should be able to resurrect my SIMH config tonight/tomorrow and then I
can test them and put them up somewhere.
Any thoughts about what to provide for each one? So far ...:
?the ISO (with SHA256 or similar)
?a scan of the CD
?a README with the CD title and whether it read error free or not: in
the latter case a dnesg snippet.
Anything else worth adding while I'm at it?
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
On Apr 16, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Malte Dehling via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Whether VAXSET is on there or not, I would be very interested in
ISOs of
both of these either way!
If Antonio does not mind sharing them a bit more widely,
I would also
like to have ISOs of them. I'm interested in running earlier VMS
versions on my 11/730.
10:03 a.m.
On Apr 17, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data, I'm all ears.
Do you have access to a Record Store that deals in used CDs? I know one of our local ones
used to have a machine for resurfacing CDs, at the time, I didn?t need to make use of the
service. Another option might be used Video Game stores.
Zane
10:57 a.m.
On 4/17/21 1:03 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
On Apr 17, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have used BonAmi to polish scratches on music CDs with
considerable success.
bill
If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data, I'm all ears.
Do you have access to a Record Store that deals in used CDs? I know one of our local
ones used to have a machine for resurfacing CDs, at the time, I didn?t need to make use
of the service. Another option might be used Video Game stores.
11:30 a.m.
On 17/04/2021 18:03, Zane Healy wrote:
On Apr 17, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>> wrote:
Thanks for that, I didn't realise that such a service even existed.
There's a GAME in the Westgate in Oxford and the GAME website mentions
CD cleaning for games, so I might call and check to see if they have the
machine. ?3 per disc, so it perhaps might be worth trying on one. When I
hold the CD up to the light there are definite pin pricks where I can
see the light shining through so I rather suspect that there are some
points that are unrecoverable. So maybe not.
I also happened across two youtube videos
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpcd-5fd9nY and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNV7mDfWuWI) where people do the same
sort of thing by hand. I happen to have some 3000 grit wet-and-dry
available. I might have a go at that too, although I think I should find
a data CD that I don't care about, rough it up and see if I can "unrough
it up". Pity I threw away all those AOL CDs years ago :-) Actually, I
suspect I have a number of duplicate MSDN CDs, so those might do for
experimentation.
So far I've just tried using dd to recover the data but perhaps I should
try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports an
unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data,
I'm all ears.
Do you have access to a Record Store that deals in used CDs? ?I know
one of our local ones used to have ?a machine for resurfacing CDs, at
the time, I didn?t need to make use of the service. ?Another option
might be used Video Game stores. 
12:29 p.m.
On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 11:35:41AM -0700, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 4/17/21 11:30 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
wrote:
I agree with the suggestion. I think it's worth trying this before
anything else. If anything can be read without further work, ddrescue
should do the trick. Of course it helps to test with different drives,
too, like you already did.
Sorry this turned into more work than expected, and thanks again for
your effort!
--
Malte Dehling
<mdehling at gmail.com>
So far I've just tried using dd to recover
the data but perhaps I should
try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports an
unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions?
ddrescue
12:33 p.m.
On 17/04/2021 19:35, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 4/17/21 11:30 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
wrote:
I guess I should've remembered that one, thanks!
So has this just lost ~3KiB? "pct rescued" suggests that it did quite
well. Does "bad areas" mean one bad sector (2048 bytes)?
$ ddrescue -r5 -v /dev/sr1 JUL89DIST.iso JUL89DIST.map
GNU ddrescue 1.23
About to copy 623247 kBytes from '/dev/sr1' to 'JUL89DIST.iso'
??? Starting positions: infile = 0 B,? outfile = 0 B
??? Copy block size: 128 sectors?????? Initial skip size: 128 sectors
Sector size: 512 Bytes
Press Ctrl-C to interrupt
???? ipos:? 623246 kB, non-trimmed:??????? 0 B, current rate:?????? 0 B/s
???? opos:? 623246 kB, non-scraped:??????? 0 B, average rate:?? 1303 kB/s
non-tried:??????? 0 B,? bad-sector:???? 4096 B, error rate:????? 73 B/s
? rescued:? 623243 kB,?? bad areas:??????? 1, run time:????? 7m 58s
pct rescued:?? 99.99%, read errors:?????? 49, remaining time:???????? n/a
????????????????????????????? time since last successful read:????? 5m 11s
Finished
This is what ls sees (I renamed the ISO to match what it actually is):
-rw-rw-r-- 1 antonioc antonioc 623243264 Apr 17 20:14
CDROM-AG-MN36E-RE-1989-07-VMS-CONDIST.iso
(That happens to be exactly the same result as dd).
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
So far I've just tried using dd to recover
the data but perhaps I
should try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports
an unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions?
ddrescue
12:55 p.m.
On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 08:33:59PM +0100, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
On 17/04/2021 19:35, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
That looks pretty good already! Can you try with "-b 2048 -d" for
direct disc access and maybe once more with "-R" for reverse?
Cheers,
Malte
--
Malte Dehling
<mdehling at gmail.com>
On 4/17/21 11:30 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
wrote:
I guess I should've remembered that one, thanks!
So has this just lost ~3KiB? "pct rescued" suggests that it did quite well.
Does "bad areas" mean one bad sector (2048 bytes)?
$ ddrescue -r5 -v /dev/sr1 JUL89DIST.iso JUL89DIST.map
GNU ddrescue 1.23
About to copy 623247 kBytes from '/dev/sr1' to 'JUL89DIST.iso'
??? Starting positions: infile = 0 B,? outfile = 0 B
??? Copy block size: 128 sectors?????? Initial skip size: 128 sectors
Sector size: 512 Bytes
Press Ctrl-C to interrupt
???? ipos:? 623246 kB, non-trimmed:??????? 0 B, current rate:?????? 0 B/s
???? opos:? 623246 kB, non-scraped:??????? 0 B, average rate:?? 1303 kB/s
non-tried:??????? 0 B,? bad-sector:???? 4096 B, error rate:????? 73 B/s
? rescued:? 623243 kB,?? bad areas:??????? 1, run time:????? 7m 58s
pct rescued:?? 99.99%, read errors:?????? 49, remaining time:???????? n/a
????????????????????????????? time since last successful read:????? 5m 11s
Finished
This is what ls sees (I renamed the ISO to match what it actually is):
-rw-rw-r-- 1 antonioc antonioc 623243264 Apr 17 20:14
CDROM-AG-MN36E-RE-1989-07-VMS-CONDIST.iso
(That happens to be exactly the same result as dd). So far I've just tried using dd to recover
the data but perhaps I
should try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports
an unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions?
ddrescue
18 Apr
18 Apr
2:59 a.m.
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 at 20:35, Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
ddrescue
Agreed.
Important note: `ddrescue` is the newer tool and is more modern than
either `dd_rescue` or `gddrescue`. They are *NOT* the same tools under
different names.
GNU ddrescue or just `ddrescue` It is the preferred choice and should
be tried first, but if you encounter problems you can try the older
`dd_rescue` or `gddrescue` if you wish.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/211578/whats-the-difference-between-ddrescu…
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
14 May
14 May
5:45 a.m.
At 12:03 PM 4/17/2021, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
Do you have access to a Record Store that deals in used
CDs? I know one of our local ones used to have a machine for resurfacing CDs, at the
time, I didn???t need to make use of the service. Another option might be used Video Game
stores.
In the USA, it is not uncommon that a public library would have
such a CD/DVD rescue machine, too. Ask a librarian.
- John
6:43 a.m.
On May 14, 2021, at 5:45 AM, John Foust via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
At 12:03 PM 4/17/2021, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
That?s an interesting point, they?d basically have to have one, at least in the same
system as they are. I forget that Libraries are more about optical discs than books these
days. :-( Of course I mainly forget that because I have more books on any topic that
interests me, than our local library system.
Zane
Do you have access to a Record Store that deals
in used CDs? I know one of our local ones used to have a machine for resurfacing CDs, at
the time, I didn???t need to make use of the service. Another option might be used Video
Game stores.
In the USA, it is not uncommon that a public library would have
such a CD/DVD rescue machine, too. Ask a librarian.
7:16 a.m.
On 14/05/2021 13:45, John Foust via cctalk wrote:
In the USA, it is not uncommon that a public library
would have
such a CD/DVD rescue machine, too. Ask a librarian.
It's moot now (until I come across the next one, I guess). But given the
cost and the fact that I have a 100% hit rate right now, I have to say
IBM (It's Better Manually) :-)
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
17 Apr
17 Apr
3:37 p.m.
On 04/17/2021 11:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to
recover data, I'm all ears.
If by the "data side" you mean the clear side the CD is read
from, those can be polished with toothpaste or plastic
polish. Modern CD/DVD drives are much better at reading
poor quality disks.
If the data layer is scratched, they are likely
unrecoverable. That is the side with the label on it, and
the data layer is only a few thousandths below the label.
Jon
18 Apr
18 Apr
10 a.m.
On 17/04/2021 23:37, Jon Elson wrote:
On 04/17/2021 11:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
wrote:
I'm using a seven year old DVD-RW drive and a similarly aged DVD-ROM
drive. The results are the same in either case.
If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data,
I'm all ears.
If by the "data side" you mean the clear side the CD is read from,
those can be polished with toothpaste or plastic polish.? Modern
CD/DVD drives are much better at reading poor quality disks.
If the data layer is scratched, they are likely unrecoverable. That is
the side with the label on it, and the data layer is only a few
thousandths below the label.
Two of them may well be completely unrecoverable. The others that I've
tried with 1989 date codes are 99+% recoverable so I'm hoping that the
missing sector or so doesn't upset ODS-2 too much. If I get the time,
I'll try them out tonight. The May 1989 CONDIST (and the Mar 1989
CONOLD) are both currently completely unreadable. I'll try one of them
in the GAME polishing machine, assuming they actually have a polishing
machine nearby. If there is no such machine nearby then I'll try the
3000 grit sandpaper as there's not really much to lose.
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
21 Apr
21 Apr
1:53 p.m.
I've managed to reconstitute my SIMH config and I've checked out a few
of the ISO files I managed to generate using ddrescue.
The Mar 89 CONOLD and May 89 CONDIST do not even show up as media under
Linux. If I get the chance I'll try out the Oxford GAME store polisher
for one at least of them. As a backup I'll dig out my 3000 grit
sandpaper and try that out.
I've only looked at a few CONDIST volumes and none of the corresponding
CONOLD volumes.
The oldest working one is the 1989 July CONDIST, which read 99.99% with
ddrescue. It mounts quite happily and I can see the directory. ANA/DISK
complains slightly:
[
$ ana/disk dua3:
Analyze/Disk_Structure for _VAX072$DUA3: started on 21-APR-2021 21:11:34.25
%ANALDISK-I-SHORTBITMAP, storage bitmap on RVN 1 does not cover the
entire device
%ANALDISK-I-OPENQUOTA, error opening QUOTA.SYS
-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file
]
There's never a QUOTA.SYS on a CDROM, so that's probably OK. Not sure
about the SHORTBITMAP (it's been a long time since I used VMS as my
daily driver and I've not had the chance to try an ISO that was read
with no errors, nor a real CDROM in a real CDROM drive on a real VAX).
Anyway, it looks like it is all there. However (and there's always a
"however") the VAXSET kit that started this all off is VAXSET*080* and
not the hoped for *070*. Interestingly the [.LINE] subdirectory does
contain some doc files but the [.KIT] directory is empty. I've included
the CD_CONTENTS.DAT below. From that you can see:
"VAXSET" **** N V8.0 SUB N Y VAXSET080 NO_BINARIES
which would suggest that the kit didn't ship although the SPD and so on
did. No idea why. Until I saw that I assumed that this was the one set
of files to get whacked, but that seems very unlikely. Especially since
the 1989 JUL AD CONDIST is the same.
I also ran up the MENU.EXE that is included and VAXSET is listed under
"New Products" and not "Updated Products". My interpretation would be
that it is not on any earlier CONDIST CDROMs. But it would be nice for
earlier ones to get flushed out and published!
Anyway, over the next few days I'll package up these early CDROMs and
put them up on either google drive or dropbox. I'll post a link here and
whoever wants them can grab them. If Al wants them for bitsavers that's
OK by me.
I plan to include the ISO, a README.TXT that explains that these are all
incomplete and I'll attach the ddrescue output, a scan of the CD, a
SHA256 of the files. I'll tar it up and compress with xz.
If anyone would prefer some other format or compression or whatever, I'm
open to suggestions.
Antonio
The list of kits on the 1989-07 CONDIST is:
[
$ type cd_contanets???? ents.dat
%LABEL CD_BIN_90403
%TYPE CONDIST
!
!JULY CONDIST
!------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
!PRODUCT NAME UPI INST VERSION KIT CH DIS ROOT SAVESET(S)
!
"AAF01/VMS SUBROUTINE LIBRARY" GEFR Y V2.0 SUB1 A Y AAF01020 AAF01020
"ADF01/VMS SUBROUTINE LIBRARY" 375 Y V4.0 SUB1 A Y ADF01040 ADF01040
"DEC GKS FOR VMS" 810A Y V4.0 SUB N Y DECGKS040 DECGKS040,DECGKSRTO040
"DEC GKS-3D FOR VMS" VFXE Y V1.0 SUB1 N Y DECGKS3D010 DECGKS3D010,DECGKS3DRT
"DECFORMS" VCH Y V1.0 SUB N Y FORMS010 FORMS010,FORMSTR010
"DECNET-VAX" **** N V5.1 SUB A Y NETVAX051 NO_BINARIES
"DECNET/SNA DATA TRANSFER FACILITY" VEBA Y V2.0 SUB1 A Y SNADTF020
SNADTFS020,SNADTFU020
"DECNET/SNA GATEWAY FOR CHANNEL TRANSPORT" VC9 Y V1.0 SUB2 A Y SNACSA010
SNACSA010
"DECNET/SNA GATEWAY FOR SYNCHRONOUS TRANSPORT" S01A Y V1.0 SUB2 A Y
SNACST010 SNACST010
"DECNET/SNA VMS 3270 DATA STREAM PROGRAMMING INTERFACE" **** Y V1.4 SUB
N Y SNA3270014 SNA3270014
"DECNET/SNA VMS 3270 TERMINAL EMULATOR" 454A Y V1.5 SUB N Y SNATE015
SNATE015
"DECNET/SNA VMS APPC/LU6.2 PROGRAMMING INTERFACE" 022A Y V2.1 SUB A Y
SNALU62021 SNALU62021
"DECNET/SNA VMS APPLICATION PROGRAMMING INTERFACE" 455A Y V2.3 SUB N Y
SNALU0023 SNALU0023
"DECNET/SNA VMS DISOSS DOCUMENT EXCHANGE FACILITY" 042A Y V1.4 SUB1 A Y
SNADDXF014 SNADDXF014
"DECNET/SNA VMS DISTRIBUTED HOST COMMAND FACILITY" 043A Y V1.2 SUB N Y
SNADHCF012 SNADHCF012
"DECNET/SNA VMS GATEWAY MANAGEMENT" 452A Y V2.0 SUB2 A Y SNAGM020 SNAGM020
"DECROUTER 2000" S03 Y V1.1 SUB1 A Y ROU011 ROU011
"DECSERVER 200 FOR VAX/VMS AND MICROVMS" Z06A Y V2.0 SUB A Y DS2020 DS2020
"DECSERVER 500/VMS" Z46 Y V1.1 SUB1 A Y DS5011 DS5011
"DECVOICE SOFTWARE" VFU Y V1.0 SUB A Y VOX010 VOX010
"DRX11-C/VMS DRIVER" S36 Y V6.0 SUB1 A Y DRX11C060 DRX11C060
"EXTERNAL DOCUMENT EXCHANGE WITH IBM DISOSS" **** Y V2.1 SUB1 N Y
EDEDIS021 EDEDIS021
"IEX-VMS-DRIVER" 519A Y V4.0 SUB1 A Y IEX040 IEX040
"IXV/VAXELN DRIVER" VG3A Y V2.0 SUB A Y IXVELN020 IXVELN020
"IXV11/VMS DRIVER" VHZA Y V2.0 SUB A Y IXV11020 IXV11020
"KMV1A MICROVAX DRIVER AND X.25 LINK LEVEL SOFTWARE" VCQA Y V2.0 SUB A Y
UWX25020 UWX25020
"KMV1A MICROVAX DRIVER" VCPA Y V2.0 SUB A Y UWDRV020 UWDRV020
"MICROVAX MIRA SWITCH CONTROL" **** Y V2.1 SUB N Y MRA021 MRA021
"MICROVAX/DRQ3B DEVICE DRIVER" 0APA Y V1.2 SUB A Y HX012 HX012
"MUXSERVER 100 REMOTE TERMINAL SERVER" VE4A Y V2.2 SUB2 A Y MSVAENG022
MSVAENG022
"PBXSERVER" **** Y V2.0 SUB A Y PBXSERVER020 PBXSERVER020
"REMOTE SYSTEM MANAGER SERVER VMS" B13 Y V2.1 SUB A Y RSMSRV021 RSMSRV021
"VAX 2780/3780 PROTOCOL EMULATOR" 111A Y V1.7 SUB A Y BSCPTP017 BSCPTP017
"VAX ACMS" 079A Y V3.0A SUB1 A Y ACMSDEV030 ACMSDEV030,ACMSRTO030,ACMSREM030
"VAX ADA" 056A Y V2.0 SUB N Y ADA020 ADA020,ADAHLP020
"VAX BASIC" 095A Y V3.3 SUB A Y BASIC033 BASIC033
"VAX BLISS-32 IMPLEMENTATION LANGUAGE" 106A Y V4.5 SUB A Y BLS32045 BLS32045
"VAX C" 015A Y V3.0 SUB N Y VAXC030 VAXC030
"VAX CDD/PLUS" 897A Y V4.1 SUB N Y CDD041 CDD041
"VAX COBOL GENERATOR" 365A Y V1.3 SUB A Y GEN013 GEN013
"VAX COBOL" 099A Y V4.2A SUB2 A Y COBOL042 COBOL042
"VAX COBOL/JAPANESE" **** Y V4.2 SUB1 N Y JCOBOL042 JCOBOL042
"VAX COPROCESSOR/RSX" **** Y V1.0 SUB N Y CPRSX010 CPRSX010
"VAX DATATRIEVE" 898A Y V4.2 SUB A Y DTR042 DTR042
"VAX DATATRIEVE/JAPANESE" 898J Y V4.2 SUB A Y JDTR042 JDTR042
"VAX DBMS" 915A Y V4.0 SUB A Y DBMS040 DBMDEV040,DBMRTO040
"VAX DEC/CMS" 007A Y V3.2 SUB N Y CMS032 CMS032
"VAX DEC/MAP" **** Y V2.1 SUB1 A Y MAP021 MAP021
"VAX DEC/MMS" VADA Y V2.5 SUB N Y MMS025 MMS025
"VAX DEC/TEST MANAGER" **** Y V3.0 SUB N Y DTM030 DTM030
"VAX DECISION EXPERT FOR VMS" VI2A Y V1.0 SUB N Y DEEX010 DEEX010
"VAX DECSCAN VMS AND ELN BITBUS DRIVERS" VCJA Y V2.0 SUB2 A Y IBQ020 IBQ020
"VAX DISTRIBUTED FILE SERVICE" VEQ Y V1.1 SUB2 A Y DFS011 DFS011
"VAX DISTRIBUTED NAME SERVICE" VERA Y V1.1A SUB1 A Y DNS011 DNS011
"VAX DISTRIBUTED QUEUING SERVICE" VENA Y V1.1 SUB1 A Y DQS011 DQS011
"VAX DSM" 130A Y V5.1 SUB N Y DSM051 DSM051
"VAX FMS" VD8A Y V2.4 SUB A Y VAXFMS024 VAXFMS024,FMSFDV024
"VAX FORTRAN" **** Y V5.2 SUB U Y FORT052 FORT052
"VAX KCT32" 128A Y V2.0 SUB A Y UK020 UK020
"VAX KMS11-BD/BE HDLC/BSC FRAMING SOFTWARE" 920 Y V2.0 SUB A Y YN020 YN020
"VAX KMS11-BD/BE X.25 LINK LEVEL SOFTWARE" 757A Y V2.0 SUB2 A Y YO020 YO020
"VAX LANGUAGE SENSITIVE EDITOR" 057A Y V2.3 SUB N Y LSE023 LSE023
"VAX NOTES" 960A Y V2.0 SUB U Y NOTES020 NOTES020
"VAX PASCAL" 126A Y V3.9 SUB A Y PASCAL039 PASCAL039
"VAX PERFORMANCE ADVISOR" VE5A Y V2.0 SUB N Y VPA020 VPA020
"VAX PERFORMANCE AND COVERAGE ANALYZER" 119A Y V2.1 SUB N Y PCA021 PCA021
"VAX PL/I" 114A Y V3.3 SUB N Y PLI033 PLI033
"VAX PRINTSERVER CLIENT SOFTWARE" 797 Y V2.1 SUB A Y LPS40C021 LPS40C021
"VAX PRINTSERVER SUPPORTING HOST SOFTWARE" 798 Y V2.1 SUB A Y LPS40S021
LPS40S021
"VAX PRODUCER INTERPRETER" **** Y V1.7 SUB N Y PRDINT017 PRDINT017
"VAX PRODUCER" **** Y V1.7 SUB N Y PRDUCR017 PRDUCR017
"VAX P.S.I. ACCESS" 061A Y V4.2 SUB1 A Y PSI_AC042 PSI_AC042
"VAX P.S.I." 071A Y V4.2 SUB1 A Y PSI042 PSI042
"VAX PUBLIC ACCESS COMMUNICATIONS" **** Y V1.2 SUB N Y VAXPAC012 VAXPAC012
"VAX REAL-TIME ACCELERATOR SOFTWARE" **** Y V2.0 SUB N Y VRTA020 VRTA020
"VAX RMS JOURNALING" **** N V5.1 SUB A Y RMSJNL051 NO_BINARIES
"VAX SOFTWARE PROJECT MANAGER" A82A Y V1.2 SUB N Y PM012 PM012
"VAX SOURCE CODE ANALYZER" VC6A Y V1.3 SUB N Y SCA013 SCA013
"VAX SPM" 850A Y V3.2 SUB A Y SPM032 SPM032
"VAX TEAMDATA" 741A Y V1.3 SUB1 A Y TDA013 TDA013
"VAX TEAMDATA/DANSK" **** Y V1.3 SUB A Y TDADANSK013 TDA013
"VAX TEAMDATA/DEUTSCH" ZKJ Y V1.3 SUB A Y TDADEUTSCH013 TDA013
"VAX TEAMDATA/ESPANOL" ZKK Y V1.3 SUB1 A Y TDAESPANOL013 TDA013
"VAX TEAMDATA/FRANCAIS" ZKL Y V1.3 SUB A Y TDAFRANCAIS013 TDA013
"VAX TEAMDATA/NORSK" ZKM Y V1.3 SUB A Y TDANORSK013 TDA013
"VAX TEAMINFO/SVENSKA" **** Y V1.3 SUB1 A Y TDASVENSKA013 TDA013
"VAX VOLUME SHADOWING" **** N V5.1 SUB A Y VMSSHD051 NO_BINARIES
"VAX WIDE AREA NETWORK DEVICE DRIVERS" **** Y V1.1 SUB1 U Y SYNC011 SYNC011
"VAX-11 RSX" 382A Y V2.4 SUB A Y RSX024 RSX024
"VAX/EDI (UK)" **** Y V1.0A SUB A Y VAXEDI010 VAXEDI010
"VAX/VMS COMPUTER INTEGRATED TELEPHONY APPLICATIONS INTERFACE" **** Y
V1.1 SUB N Y CIT011 CIT011
"VAX/VMS COMPUTER INTEGRATED TELEPHONY PBX SERVER" **** Y V1.1 SUB N Y
CITSR011 CITSR011
"VAX/VMS OPERATING SYSTEM" 001 N V5.1-1 SUB U Y VMSU2051 VMSU2051
"VAX/VMS OPERATING SYSTEM" 001 N V5.1-B SUB A Y VMSU1051
VMSU1051,VMSSB_CD051
"VAXCLUSTER CONSOLE SYSTEM" V01 Y V1.2 SUB A Y VCS012 VCS012
"VAXCLUSTER SOFTWARE" **** N V5.1 SUB A Y VAXCLU051 NO_BINARIES
"VAXIMAGE APPLICATION SERVICES FOR VMS" 892A Y V1.0 SUB A Y VIS010 VIS010
"VAXIMAGE SCANNING APPLICATION" VPFA Y V1.0 SUB A Y PSCAN010 PSCAN010
"VAXLAB SOFTWARE LIBRARY" **** Y V1.3A SUB A Y VSL013 VSL013
"VAXPC FOR VMS" **** Y V1.0 SUB N Y VAXPC010 VAXPC010
"VAXSET" **** N V8.0 SUB N Y VAXSET080 NO_BINARIES
"VMS WORKSTATION SOFTWARE" **** N V4.0 SUB A Y VWS040
VWS040,SIGHT040,VWSDEMO040,HCUIS040
"VMS WORKSTATION SOFTWARE" **** N V4.0A PTC A Y VWS040 VWSA040
"VMS WORKSTATION SOFTWARE/JAPANESE" A96J N V4.0 SUB A Y JVWS040 JVWS040
"VMS WORKSTATION SOFTWARE/JAPANESE" A96J N V4.0A PTC1 U Y JVWS040 JVWSA040
"VMS/JAPANESE" **** N V5.1 SUB1 U Y JVMS051 NO_BINARIES
"VMS/SNA" 362 Y V2.0 SUB U Y SNAVMS020 SNAVMS020
"VMS/ULTRIX CONNECTION (TM)" VHR Y V1.0 SUB1 A Y UCX010 UCX010
"X25ROUTER 2000" S02 Y V1.0 SUB2 A Y X25ROU010 X25ROU010
]
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
2:13 p.m.
Antonio Carlini wrote:
The oldest working one is the 1989 July CONDIST, which read 99.99% with
ddrescue. It mounts quite happily and I can see the directory. ANA/DISK
complains slightly:
[
$ ana/disk dua3:
Analyze/Disk_Structure for _VAX072$DUA3: started on 21-APR-2021 21:11:34.25
%ANALDISK-I-SHORTBITMAP, storage bitmap on RVN 1 does not cover the
entire device
%ANALDISK-I-OPENQUOTA, error opening QUOTA.SYS
-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file
]
There's never a QUOTA.SYS on a CDROM, so that's probably OK. Not sure
about the SHORTBITMAP (it's been a long time since I used VMS as my
daily driver and I've not had the chance to try an ISO that was read
with no errors, nor a real CDROM in a real CDROM drive on a real VAX).
I've just tried ANALYZE/DISK on VAXBINMAY931 which is the oldest I can
put a hand on right now and it gives exactly the same output as you got.
I plan to include the ISO, a README.TXT that explains that these are all
incomplete and I'll attach the ddrescue output, a scan of the CD, a
SHA256 of the files. I'll tar it up and compress with xz.
If anyone would prefer some other format or compression or whatever, I'm
open to suggestions.
ZIP is probably most commonly used for compressed archives on VMS. The
version of ZIP that runs on VMS can save VMS file attributes when told to so
that it doesn't lose important attributes for the installation kits like tar
would. (I only came across xz anywhere for the first time about a week ago...)
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
3:32 p.m.
On 21/04/2021 22:13, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:
I've just tried ANALYZE/DISK on VAXBINMAY931 which
is the oldest I can
put a hand on right now and it gives exactly the same output as you got.
Thanks ... that's reassuring. Individual savesets can be tested with
BACKUP/LIST or (more extensively) by extracting each BACKUP - that would
show up any errors.
ZIP is probably most commonly used for compressed archives on VMS.? The
version of ZIP that runs on VMS can save VMS file attributes when told
to so
that it doesn't lose important attributes for the installation kits
like tar
would. (I only came across xz anywhere for the first time about a week
ago...)
It's true that ZIP is probably the most common archiver on VMS (and I'm
sure it's on the various OpenVMS FREEWARE disks). That said, I expect
that most people making such images available for distribution (e.g.
bitsavers) are not running VMS. I'm planning to distribute an ISO plus
some extra bits, not the individual backup savesets, so attributes
shouldn't be a problem. I'd expect that anyone who wants to use this
stuff will run up SIMH and mount an ISO or possibly burn a CD-R and use
it that way. I might try zip (under Unix, so gzip) for fun, but I expect
that xz will beat it hands down for space. I guess an ISO could also be
accessed using LDDRIVER, although my main constraint back in the day was
always disk space.
I'm not going to try zip on OpenVMS because ... much as I love VMS, SIMH
on my laptop just isn't as fast as Linux on a Ryzen!
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
3:50 p.m.
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 09:53:26PM +0100, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
wrote:
I've managed to reconstitute my SIMH config and
I've checked out a few
of the ISO files I managed to generate using ddrescue.
The Mar 89 CONOLD and May 89 CONDIST do not even show up as media
under Linux. If I get the chance I'll try out the Oxford GAME store
polisher for one at least of them. As a backup I'll dig out my 3000
grit sandpaper and try that out.
I have to say I'm a little worried about the sandpaper... do you have a
spare CD to test the effect on? Another option might be to send the CD
to someone who does have a store nearby with a CD polisher. Either way,
I guess the first step would be to find out whether the Oxford GAME
store has one. Thanks again for your effort!
I've only looked at a few CONDIST volumes and none
of the
corresponding CONOLD volumes.
The oldest working one is the 1989 July CONDIST, which read 99.99%
with ddrescue. It mounts quite happily and I can see the directory.
[...]
Anyway, it looks like it is all there. However (and there's always a
"however") the VAXSET kit that started this all off is VAXSET*080* and
not the hoped for *070*. Interestingly the [.LINE] subdirectory does
contain some doc files but the [.KIT] directory is empty. I've
included the CD_CONTENTS.DAT below. From that you can see:
"VAXSET" **** N V8.0 SUB N Y VAXSET080 NO_BINARIES
which would suggest that the kit didn't ship although the SPD and so
on did. No idea why. Until I saw that I assumed that this was the one
set of files to get whacked, but that seems very unlikely. Especially
since the 1989 JUL AD CONDIST is the same.
VAXSET is just a combined package consisting of CMS, LSE, SCA, MMS, PCA,
and DTM. Here's a table of corresponding version numbers I've compiled
from various sources (likely not 100% correct):
|===
| VAXSET | v5.0 | v6.0 | v7.0 | v8.0 | v9.0 | v10.0
| CMS | v2.3 | v3.0 | v3.1 | v3.2 | v3.3 | v3.4
| LSE | v2.1 | v2.2 | v2.2 | v2.3 | v3.0 | v3.1
| SCA | v1.1 | v1.2 | v1.2 | v1.3 | v2.0 | v3.0
| MMS | v2.2 | v2.3 | v2.4 | v2.5 | v2.5 | v2.6
| PCA |?v1.2 | v2.0 | v2.0 | v2.1 | v2.2 | v3.0
| DTM | v2.2 | v2.3 | v2.3 | v3.0 | v3.1 | v3.2
| Release | 1987 | 1988 | 1988 | 1989 | 1990 | 1990
| Minimal VMS |?v4.4 | v4.6 | v4.6 | v5.1 | v5.3 | v5.3
|===
It looks like the individual components of VAXSET v8.0 are on the
1989-07 CONDIST even if VAXSET is listed as NO_BINARIES. While VAXSET
v8.0 requires VMS v5.1, I'm not sure about its components. Some of them
may run on (Micro)VMS 4.7.
I also ran up the MENU.EXE that is included and VAXSET
is listed under
"New Products" and not "Updated Products". My interpretation would
be
that it is not on any earlier CONDIST CDROMs. But it would be nice for
earlier ones to get flushed out and published!
That's entirely possible, I have no reason to believe VAXSET was on
earlier CONDIST CDs. Either way, I'm very interested in the older
CONDISTs, too! This one already contains a few other things I have been
looking for for a while.
Anyway, over the next few days I'll package up
these early CDROMs and
put them up on either google drive or dropbox. I'll post a link here
and whoever wants them can grab them. If Al wants them for bitsavers
that's OK by me.
I plan to include the ISO, a README.TXT that explains that these are
all incomplete and I'll attach the ddrescue output, a scan of the CD,
a SHA256 of the files. I'll tar it up and compress with xz.
If anyone would prefer some other format or compression or whatever,
I'm open to suggestions.
Maybe a ZIP file is easier for some people? Otherwise this sounds good!
Cheers,
Malte
--
Malte Dehling
<mdehling at gmail.com>
8 May
8 May
12:48 p.m.
On 18/04/2021 18:00, Antonio Carlini wrote:
I'm using a seven year old DVD-RW drive and a similarly aged DVD-ROM
drive. The results are the same in either case.
Life got in the way, as usual, but here are a few CDROMs to start with:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1c1ttR83wt5Y4z4O9DsFWtJgV-PdpHarS?us….
Hopefully those will be accessible to whoever wants them.
AG-MN36G-RE and AG-PASMA-RE are discs 1 and 2 of NOV-1989 CONDIST.
AG-NC67C-RE is the JUL-1987 CONOLD.
AG-NH36B-RE is Disc 1 of 2 of the JUL-1989 "VMS AD Software
Consolidation", which I think was some sort of experiment.
Two of them may well be completely unrecoverable. The
others that I've
tried with 1989 date codes are 99+% recoverable so I'm hoping that the
missing sector or so doesn't upset ODS-2 too much. If I get the time,
I'll try them out tonight. The May 1989 CONDIST (and the Mar 1989
CONOLD) are both currently completely unreadable. I'll try one of them
in the GAME polishing machine, assuming they actually have a polishing
machine nearby. If there is no such machine nearby then I'll try the
3000 grit sandpaper as there's not really much to lose.
I've no idea whether the nearby GAME store has a polisher, as they've
not replied to my queries and I've given up waiting. I'm going to try
2000/3000 grit sandpaper on the MAR-1989 CONOLD soon, so we'll see how
that goes (I picked up some rubbing compound today, which is needed for
the final stage).
I do have a few more early ones imaged, I just haven't scanned the CDROM
themselves, so as soon as I get that done (hopefully less than a month
this time!) I'll upload those and make a note here.
These are tar images compressed with xz. "-J" should expand them. There
is a sha256sum.txt file inside and a readme with details of the
extraction and the results of the ddrescue command. I think AG-PASMA-RE
read without error using dd.
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
9 May
9 May
2:23 p.m.
I've now uploaded: ag-mn36e-re.tar.xz, ag-nh37b-re.tar.xz and
el-cdrom-01-rev-L.tar.xz.
The full set now available are:
AG-MN36E-RE - VMS Consolidated Software Distribution? 1989-07 Disc 1 of 1
AG-NC67C-RE - VMS Online Documentation Library??????? 1989-07 Disc 1 of 1
AG-NH36B-RE - VMS AD Software Consolidation?????????? 1989-07 Disc 1 of 2
AG-NH37B-RE - VMS AD Software Consolidation?????????? 1989-07 Disc 2 of 2
AG-MN36G-RE - VMS Consolidated Software Distribution? 1989-11 Disc 1 of 2
AG-PASMA-RE - VMS Consolidated Software Distribution? 1989-11 Disc 2 of 2
EL-CDROM-01 - Digital Standards and Related Documents 1993-03-19 Rev L
I think that a fair bit (if not even all) of the Standards CDROM is
actually already available on bitsavers, but just in case, I've uploaded
it anyway.
If anyone wants to offer them a permanent home, that's fine by my (I
don't need the space on the google drive just yet, but I will have to
remove some images if I start to image a lot more (and I do seem to have
a fair few more).
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
10 May
10 May
2:05 a.m.
On Sun, May 09, 2021 at 10:23:19PM +0100, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
I've now uploaded: ag-mn36e-re.tar.xz,
ag-nh37b-re.tar.xz and
el-cdrom-01-rev-L.tar.xz.
The full set now available are:
AG-MN36E-RE - VMS Consolidated Software Distribution? 1989-07 Disc 1 of 1
AG-NC67C-RE - VMS Online Documentation Library??????? 1989-07 Disc 1 of 1
AG-NH36B-RE - VMS AD Software Consolidation?????????? 1989-07 Disc 1 of 2
AG-NH37B-RE - VMS AD Software Consolidation?????????? 1989-07 Disc 2 of 2
AG-MN36G-RE - VMS Consolidated Software Distribution? 1989-11 Disc 1 of 2
AG-PASMA-RE - VMS Consolidated Software Distribution? 1989-11 Disc 2 of 2
EL-CDROM-01 - Digital Standards and Related Documents 1993-03-19 Rev L
Thanks a lot, Antonio, these are very valuable to have!
If anyone wants to offer them a permanent home,
that's fine by my (I
don't need the space on the google drive just yet, but I will have to
remove some images if I start to image a lot more (and I do seem to
have a fair few more).
I think uploading them to archive.org would be a good long-term
solution. I can take care of it if you don't have an account.
Cheers,
Malte
--
Malte Dehling
<mdehling at gmail.com>
4:54 a.m.
On 10/05/2021 10:05, Malte Dehling wrote:
Thanks a lot, Antonio, these are very valuable to
have!
I've only checked a couple of them under SIMH, so it would be helpful to
know if I need to check my workflow or not.
I think uploading them to archive.org would be a good
long-term
solution. I can take care of it if you don't have an account.
Please do. Thanks.
In other news, I polished the MAR-1989 CONOLD, which looked very bad, to
start with. Amazingly it buffed up quite nicely and then read
surprisingly well:
[
$ ddrescue -r5 -v /dev/sr1 CDROM-AG-NC67A-RE-1989-03-VMS-CONOLD.iso
CDROM-AG-NC67A-RE-1989-03-VMS-CONOLD.map
GNU ddrescue 1.23
About to copy 205199 kBytes from '/dev/sr1' to
'CDROM-AG-NC67A-RE-1989-03-VMS-CONOLD.iso'
??? Starting positions: infile = 0 B,? outfile = 0 B
??? Copy block size: 128 sectors?????? Initial skip size: 128 sectors
Sector size: 512 Bytes
Press Ctrl-C to interrupt
???? ipos:? 205198 kB, non-trimmed:??????? 0 B,? current rate:?????? 0 B/s
???? opos:? 205198 kB, non-scraped:??????? 0 B,? average rate: 637 kB/s
non-tried:??????? 0 B,? bad-sector:???? 2048 B,??? error rate: 170 B/s
? rescued:? 205197 kB,?? bad areas:??????? 1,??????? run time:????? 5m 22s
pct rescued:?? 99.99%, read errors:?????? 25,? remaining time:???????? n/a
????????????????????????????? time since last successful read:????? 2m? 1s
Finished
]
So I went ahead and tried the CONDIST from MAY-1989. That too now can be
read, although it is proving a somewhat tougher nut to crack:
[
$ ddrescue -r5 -v /dev/sr1 CDROM-AG-MN36D-RE-1989-05-VMS-CONDIST.iso
CDROM-AG-MN36D-RE-1989-05-VMS-CONDIST.map
GNU ddrescue 1.23
About to copy 623247 kBytes from '/dev/sr1' to
'CDROM-AG-MN36D-RE-1989-05-VMS-CONDIST.iso'
??? Starting positions: infile = 0 B,? outfile = 0 B
??? Copy block size: 128 sectors?????? Initial skip size: 128 sectors
Sector size: 512 Bytes
Press Ctrl-C to interrupt
???? ipos:??? 5919 kB, non-trimmed:??????? 0 B,? current rate:?????? 0 B/s
???? opos:??? 5919 kB, non-scraped:?? 11127 kB,? average rate: 14694 B/s
non-tried:??????? 0 B,? bad-sector:??? 2843 kB,??? error rate:????? 85 B/s
? rescued:? 609276 kB,?? bad areas:????? 445,??????? run time: 11h 31m? 2s
pct rescued:?? 97.75%, read errors:???? 5884,? remaining time:? 5d 23h 43m
????????????????????????????? time since last successful read:????? 2m 45s
Scraping failed blocks... (forwards)??? ]
On the plus side, that's 97.75% more data than I had before :-) but the
"remaining time" looks like it could be the rest of the week (it varies
quite a bit).
I think, from reading the manual, that I can use CTRL-C and restart this
again later and it will pick up where it left off using the map file. Is
this right?
Are there any other options I should consider trying?
Another thought is that perhaps a shade more polishing might help. If I
polish the CDROM a little more and then resume the ddrescue, I think I
won't be any worse off than I am now, i.e. all existing data will still
be there and all I'll be risking is data that maybe would have
eventually read before but now may not read at all. Is that right?
Successful reads are now ~20m apart, so I suspect that the remaining
data will be quite difficult to recover.
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
16 Apr
16 Apr
10:24 a.m.
New subject: GNO and ORCA Pascal
Does anyone have any experience with GNO (the UnixLike shell for the Apple
2 GS)... particularly accessing GNO from Pascal.
I'm afraid I'm a Turbo Pascal kind of guy... so I don't really get it.
There are some of C libraries and C code and what have you... but I need to
use Pascal (what I am porting was written in Turbo Pascal)... which
compiles and links fine.
There are plenty of units that come with it to access things in GSOS, but
not under GNO because GNO was some sort of replacement for ORCA shell...
Thanks
Mark
5:53 p.m.
New subject: GNO and ORCA Pascal
I've recently moved and now have space to actually set up much of my
collection and I started with my Apple IIgs. Picked up all the Orca
languages and have begin playing around with them but am not an expert
with them by any means. There are others with more knowledge about them
I'm sure.
On 2021-04-16 12:24, John Many Jars via cctalk wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with GNO (the
UnixLike shell for the
Apple
2 GS)... particularly accessing GNO from Pascal.
I'm afraid I'm a Turbo Pascal kind of guy... so I don't really get it.
There are some of C libraries and C code and what have you... but I
need to
use Pascal (what I am porting was written in Turbo Pascal)... which
compiles and links fine.
There are plenty of units that come with it to access things in GSOS,
but
not under GNO because GNO was some sort of replacement for ORCA
shell...
I have looked at GNO/ME but haven't actually worked with it yet. My
understanding is where you can use it in place of the Orca shell, it
isn't a 100% compatible drop in replacement. You can run the Orca tools
and compilers and such from it without any trouble I believe.
What is it you are trying to do with it? I've been trying to think of
something that one would do in the language that would be specific to
the shell itself.
David Williams
www.trailingedge.com
17 Apr
17 Apr
2:09 a.m.
New subject: GNO and ORCA Pascal
0vv0
s. Picked up all the Orca
languages and have begin playing around with them but
am not an expert
with them by any means. There are others with more knowledge about them
I'm sure.
I started out (when I was a kid) on the PDP-11 at my dad's work (he was an
anthropologist at ASU and couldn't use a computer at gunpoint)... and then
convinced him to buy an Apple //e. I could never convince him to buy a GS.
So, I finally found one in England (moved here 21 years ago). Right now
it's just a ROM 3 base unit with no drives or memory expansion. I have all
that stuff on order but COVID is making shipping take forever... so for now
I'm playing with KEGS
I have looked at GNO/ME but haven't actually worked with it yet. My
understanding is where you can use it in place of the
Orca shell, it
isn't a 100% compatible drop in replacement. You can run the Orca tools
and compilers and such from it without any trouble I believe.
What is it you are trying to do with it? I've been trying to think of
something that one would do in the language that would be specific to
the shell itself.
I've managed to get ORCA Pascal to compile and link.. with a litlle help
from Kelvin Sherlock... but I don't want to annoy him too much.
The kernel for GNO provides preemptive multitasking. My friend and I wrote
a BBS in Turbo Pascal when we were kids... and it was fairly popular in
Phoenix Arizona for a while.
I wrote a new version of it in Ruby that's multithreaded and thus
multiuser... I've never really LIKED Ruby...
I also noticed that there isn't really a BBS program that is specific to
the GS... and certainly not one that is multi user. So, I'm going to
rewrite my multiuser BBS for it but in Pascal. This would be quite a bit
easier if I was into C.
I suspect that I'm going to have to write my own unit to talk to the
Kernel. In theory that shouldn't be too hard, as I have the source to the
compiler and the built in units for talking to the toolbox.
But, I don't believe in reinventing the wheel for things like this...
Take Care,
Mark aka John
David Williams
www.trailingedge.com
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
1076
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participants (13)
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a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
healyzh＠avanthar.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
john＠yoyodyne-propulsion.net -
johnhreinhardt＠thereinhardts.org -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mdehling＠gmail.com -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
nospam212-cctalk＠yahoo.com