3 Dec
2016
3 Dec
'16
12:51 p.m.
Putting this out there for those hopefully in the know.
I have been acquiring date-correct ICs and parts for my Mark-8 project,
which is years down the line. I'm planning to build it on very carefully
replicated clone boards, based off my originals. For my purposes, I'm
trying to keep ICs early 1975 or earlier.
Most Mark-8s that I've seen have P1101a plastic encapsulated RAMs. Most are
Intel brand, but I've seen some that I think might be National or
something.. they just say P1101A on top.
The only source other than ebay that I have are those big chip vendors like
Summit. And the problem with them is they aren't always precise about date
codes. The P1101A, because they were produced for years, have a wide range
of codes and the places I prospected them from couldn't guarantee 75 or
prior.
To my surprise, I found a few places had C1101A. They are white ceramic,
gold legs. They have a 'batch code' of F1268. I got 16 of them for $14
each. I was going to get 32, but Summit also surprised me with 5 1973
vintage Signetics n8263s @ $25 each. I hadn't been able to find any
pre-1980 so I snatched those.. but that put me beyond a budget where I could
buy 32. I figured I'd buy 16 chips for now and then buy another 16 the next
month.
Now of course, the chip houses have turned tables on me. They want $48 per
chip instead of $14 like last time. And checking around, that seems to be
uniform. Now, I'm not averse to paying that, though it will sting. But I
want to make sure my assumptions are correct.. that these white vintage ICs
are in fact pre-76. Can anyone confirm that? The info out there is a
little vague.
And would it be totally out of place for C1101as to be on a Mark-8? Could a
hobbyist have had a source for them, beyond having some lying around?
3 Dec
3 Dec
10:30 p.m.
I'm not sure I know how to decode Intel's date codes.
I was looking at some of the old parts I got from a friend that
was proto types from the lab.
I have a C8008-1 with F5000, a 31013 with 0587 and
a 1101 with 776.
I know the 31013 couldn't have been 1987 because
neither he nor I were working for Intel by then.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Brad H
<vintagecomputer at bettercomputing.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2016 12:51:35 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: Intel C1101A
Putting this out there for those hopefully in the know.
I have been acquiring date-correct ICs and parts for my Mark-8 project,
which is years down the line. I'm planning to build it on very carefully
replicated clone boards, based off my originals. For my purposes, I'm
trying to keep ICs early 1975 or earlier.
Most Mark-8s that I've seen have P1101a plastic encapsulated RAMs. Most are
Intel brand, but I've seen some that I think might be National or
something.. they just say P1101A on top.
The only source other than ebay that I have are those big chip vendors like
Summit. And the problem with them is they aren't always precise about date
codes. The P1101A, because they were produced for years, have a wide range
of codes and the places I prospected them from couldn't guarantee 75 or
prior.
To my surprise, I found a few places had C1101A. They are white ceramic,
gold legs. They have a 'batch code' of F1268. I got 16 of them for $14
each. I was going to get 32, but Summit also surprised me with 5 1973
vintage Signetics n8263s @ $25 each. I hadn't been able to find any
pre-1980 so I snatched those.. but that put me beyond a budget where I could
buy 32. I figured I'd buy 16 chips for now and then buy another 16 the next
month.
Now of course, the chip houses have turned tables on me. They want $48 per
chip instead of $14 like last time. And checking around, that seems to be
uniform. Now, I'm not averse to paying that, though it will sting. But I
want to make sure my assumptions are correct.. that these white vintage ICs
are in fact pre-76. Can anyone confirm that? The info out there is a
little vague.
And would it be totally out of place for C1101as to be on a Mark-8? Could a
hobbyist have had a source for them, beyond having some lying around?
4 Dec
4 Dec
2:57 a.m.
On 12/3/2016 10:30 PM, dwight wrote:
I'm not sure I know how to decode Intel's date
codes.
I was looking at some of the old parts I got from a friend that
was proto types from the lab.
I have a C8008-1 with F5000, a 31013 with 0587 and
a 1101 with 776.
I know the 31013 couldn't have been 1987 because
neither he nor I were working for Intel by then.
Dwight
I might have contact that can get hold of Intel folks and others. Also
have some people who know the intel coding to some degree who were IC
schlockers. They may have forgotten it all though.
thanks
Jim
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Brad H
<vintagecomputer at bettercomputing.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2016 12:51:35 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: Intel C1101A
Putting this out there for those hopefully in the know.
I have been acquiring date-correct ICs and parts for my Mark-8 project,
which is years down the line. I'm planning to build it on very carefully
replicated clone boards, based off my originals. For my purposes, I'm
trying to keep ICs early 1975 or earlier.
Most Mark-8s that I've seen have P1101a plastic encapsulated RAMs. Most are
Intel brand, but I've seen some that I think might be National or
something.. they just say P1101A on top.
The only source other than ebay that I have are those big chip vendors like
Summit. And the problem with them is they aren't always precise about date
codes. The P1101A, because they were produced for years, have a wide range
of codes and the places I prospected them from couldn't guarantee 75 or
prior.
To my surprise, I found a few places had C1101A. They are white ceramic,
gold legs. They have a 'batch code' of F1268. I got 16 of them for $14
each. I was going to get 32, but Summit also surprised me with 5 1973
vintage Signetics n8263s @ $25 each. I hadn't been able to find any
pre-1980 so I snatched those.. but that put me beyond a budget where I could
buy 32. I figured I'd buy 16 chips for now and then buy another 16 the next
month.
Now of course, the chip houses have turned tables on me. They want $48 per
chip instead of $14 like last time. And checking around, that seems to be
uniform. Now, I'm not averse to paying that, though it will sting. But I
want to make sure my assumptions are correct.. that these white vintage ICs
are in fact pre-76. Can anyone confirm that? The info out there is a
little vague.
And would it be totally out of place for C1101as to be on a Mark-8? Could a
hobbyist have had a source for them, beyond having some lying around?
3:42 a.m.
On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 11:30 PM, dwight <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I know how to decode Intel's date
codes.
Many years ago I heard from a not-necessarily-reliable source that Intel
used lot numbers rather than date codes, so without access to Intel
internal records, it wasn't possible to determine the manufacturing date.
6:51 a.m.
I should note that the 1101 I have is a ceramic, non-A part as well.
I've heard the same thing, Eric. Date codes are not dates.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Eric Smith <spacewar
at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 3:42:49 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 11:30 PM, dwight <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I know how to decode Intel's date
codes.
Many years ago I heard from a not-necessarily-reliable source that Intel
used lot numbers rather than date codes, so without access to Intel
internal records, it wasn't possible to determine the manufacturing date.
3:29 p.m.
The supplier (a different one from the one I first used) that quoted me on
C1101A for the second round sent me a picture.. exact same 'lot' or 'job'
number as the ones I have. So perhaps even that may not be meaningful?
What are the odds I'd hit the exact same dates from two different suppliers?
I'm thinking it's *fairly* safe to assume white ceramic is pre-76, at
least.. but yeah.. might be impossible to ever really know. I'm just
wondering why the price jumped to $40+ each all of a sudden!
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of dwight
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:52 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
I should note that the 1101 I have is a ceramic, non-A part as well.
I've heard the same thing, Eric. Date codes are not dates.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Eric Smith
<spacewar at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 3:42:49 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 11:30 PM, dwight <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure I know how to decode Intel's date
codes.
Many years ago I heard from a not-necessarily-reliable source that Intel
used lot numbers rather than date codes, so without access to Intel internal
records, it wasn't possible to determine the manufacturing date.
6 p.m.
On 12/4/2016 3:29 PM, Brad H wrote:
The supplier (a different one from the one I first
used) that quoted me on
C1101A for the second round sent me a picture.. exact same 'lot' or
'job'
number as the ones I have. So perhaps even that may not be meaningful?
What are the odds I'd hit the exact same dates from two different suppliers?
I'm thinking it's*fairly* safe to assume white ceramic is pre-76, at
least.. but yeah.. might be impossible to ever really know. I'm just
wondering why the price jumped to $40+ each all of a sudden!
Brad,
a very large number of schlock IC sellers all communicate with each
other. They all have a continuous stream of wants or needs that they
exchange. but they make their own prices. The probability is that you
may have hit the original stocking guy with your first query. Querying
any others will result in them looking at the wants that others shared,
or buys, and he saw someone else had it and quoted you the same info.
I know this happens as I know two guys who trade in all manner of stock
all the time like this and have for 35 to 40 years.
thanks
Jim
6 Dec
6 Dec
4:26 a.m.
I do notice these "schlock" IC sellers actually raise the price the more
"hits" they get on an item. So your shopping around will actually make the
price worse and my even cause your earlier vendors to raise their price when you finally
do place an order.
corey cohen
u??o? ???o?
On Dec 4, 2016, at 9:00 PM, jim stephens <jwsmail
at jwsss.com> wrote:
On 12/4/2016 3:29 PM, Brad H wrote:
The supplier (a different one from the one I first used) that quoted me on
C1101A for the second round sent me a picture.. exact same 'lot' or
'job'
number as the ones I have. So perhaps even that may not be meaningful?
What are the odds I'd hit the exact same dates from two different suppliers?
I'm thinking it's*fairly* safe to assume white ceramic is pre-76, at
least.. but yeah.. might be impossible to ever really know. I'm just
wondering why the price jumped to $40+ each all of a sudden!
Brad,
a very large number of schlock IC sellers all communicate with each other. They all have
a continuous stream of wants or needs that they exchange. but they make their own prices.
The probability is that you may have hit the original stocking guy with your first query.
Querying any others will result in them looking at the wants that others shared, or buys,
and he saw someone else had it and quoted you the same info.
I know this happens as I know two guys who trade in all manner of stock all the time like
this and have for 35 to 40 years.
thanks
Jim
8:46 a.m.
I kind of thought that might be a possibility. I might just let things lie for a while..
I was concerned about stock disappearing, didn't think about price tripling. Not sure
I want to spend $1400 for 1K of RAM on a clone. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Corey Cohen
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
I do notice these "schlock" IC sellers actually raise the price the more
"hits" they get on an item. So your shopping around will actually make the
price worse and my even cause your earlier vendors to raise their price when you finally
do place an order.
corey cohen
u??o? ???o?
On Dec 4, 2016, at 9:00 PM, jim stephens <jwsmail
at jwsss.com> wrote:
On 12/4/2016 3:29 PM, Brad H wrote:
The supplier (a different one from the one I first used) that quoted
me on C1101A for the second round sent me a picture.. exact same 'lot' or
'job'
number as the ones I have. So perhaps even that may not be meaningful?
What are the odds I'd hit the exact same dates from two different suppliers?
I'm thinking it's*fairly* safe to assume white ceramic is pre-76, at
least.. but yeah.. might be impossible to ever really know. I'm just
wondering why the price jumped to $40+ each all of a sudden!
Brad,
a very large number of schlock IC sellers all communicate with each other. They all have
a continuous stream of wants or needs that they exchange. but they make their own prices.
The probability is that you may have hit the original stocking guy with your first query.
Querying any others will result in them looking at the wants that others shared, or buys,
and he saw someone else had it and quoted you the same info.
I know this happens as I know two guys who trade in all manner of stock all the time like
this and have for 35 to 40 years.
thanks
Jim
9:28 a.m.
On 12/6/2016 8:46 AM, Brad H wrote:
I kind of thought that might be a possibility. I
might just let things lie for a while.. I was concerned about stock disappearing,
didn't think about price tripling. Not sure I want to spend $1400 for 1K of RAM on a
clone.:)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Corey Cohen
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts<cctech at classiccmp.org>
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
I do notice these "schlock" IC sellers actually raise the price the more
"hits" they get on an item. So your shopping around will actually make the
price worse and my even cause your earlier vendors to raise their price when you finally
do place an order.
corey cohen
u??o? ???o?
Most of these guys will deal. I don't know if you have approached
them
with a story or with an offer, but you can usually get them to make a
deal. If you have details on it, contact me and I'll send you my
friend's contact info and see if he can get you something if your own
efforts fail. I've known him now for 40 years and find him to be one of
the "good guys".
I spent a lot of time in his office when the fax machine would fire 2 or
3 times a minute and have a pile of 100 or 200 pages of wants or haves
backed up he's have to look at. Wading thru that and making money is
why they are so weird in pricing and dealing.
He would always treat me fair though when I had something as he knew my
needs weren't for a deal that could ultimately yield a huge payback, and
I'd be restoring some old equipment. Some don't care just want a buck.
You need to realize most people who will buy schlock parts will most
likely be repairing a board for some alphabet agency or entity who
probably is having to pay $1000 or $2000 / board to get back in
business, with ancient unobtaininum parts on board. There is a lot of
this going on that isn't out there unless you are in the business, or
unless you see the $5000 odd board for the old DEC box and wonder why
the hell they are so expensive.
I've had some people with really high prices respond in the last year to
reasonable offers for some rare stuff when I tell them what I plan to do
with it.
Thanks
jim
9:34 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim stephens
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:28 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
On 12/6/2016 8:46 AM, Brad H wrote:
I kind of thought that might be a possibility. I
might just let
things lie for a while.. I was concerned about stock disappearing,
didn't think about price tripling. Not sure I want to spend $1400 for
1K of RAM on a clone.:)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Corey
Cohen
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts<cctech at classiccmp.org>
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
I do notice these "schlock" IC sellers actually raise the price the more
"hits" they get on an item. So your shopping around will actually make the
price worse and my even cause your earlier vendors to raise their price when you finally
do place an order.
corey cohen
u??o? ???o?
Most of these guys will deal. I don't know if you have approached
them with a story or with an offer, but you can usually get them to make a deal. If you
have details on it, contact me and I'll send you my friend's contact info and see
if he can get you something if your own efforts fail. I've known him now for 40 years
and find him to be one of the "good guys".
I spent a lot of time in his office when the fax machine would fire 2 or
3 times a minute and have a pile of 100 or 200 pages of wants or haves backed up he's
have to look at. Wading thru that and making money is why they are so weird in pricing
and dealing.
He would always treat me fair though when I had something as he knew my needs weren't
for a deal that could ultimately yield a huge payback, and I'd be restoring some old
equipment. Some don't care just want a buck.
You need to realize most people who will buy schlock parts will most likely be repairing a
board for some alphabet agency or entity who probably is having to pay $1000 or $2000 /
board to get back in business, with ancient unobtaininum parts on board. There is a lot
of this going on that isn't out there unless you are in the business, or unless you
see the $5000 odd board for the old DEC box and wonder why the hell they are so
expensive.
I've had some people with really high prices respond in the last year to reasonable
offers for some rare stuff when I tell them what I plan to do with it.
Thanks
jim
Thanks Jim.. I did try some negotiation with the three suppliers I contacted but no flex
at all. I'm suspecting they're all going to the same source and said source has
decided to maintain the price where it is.
Lesson here is if you're buying these things at all, get em all at once. :)
I don't *have* to have C1101A -- almost all Mark-8s I've seen were done with
P1101A, and the only diff with C1101A is the encapsulation as far as I know.. I just went
with C1101A because it was more certain they'd be over a certain age, and now that I
have a bunch it'd be nice to keep it consistent. I don't think I even have to
build out to a full 1K to have a running Mark-8.. but it'd be nice.
11:27 a.m.
On 12/6/16 11:46 AM, Brad H wrote:
I kind of thought that might be a possibility. I
might just let things lie for a while.. I was concerned about stock disappearing,
didn't think about price tripling. Not sure I want to spend $1400 for 1K of RAM on a
clone. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Corey Cohen
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
I do notice these "schlock" IC sellers actually raise the price the more
"hits" they get on an item. So your shopping around will actually make the
price worse and my even cause your earlier vendors to raise their price when you finally
do place an order.
corey cohen
u??o? ???o?
> On Dec 4, 2016, at 9:00 PM, jim stephens <jwsmail at jwsss.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 12/4/2016 3:29 PM, Brad H wrote:
>> The supplier (a different one from the one I first used) that quoted
>> me on C1101A for the second round sent me a picture.. exact same 'lot' or
'job'
>> number as the ones I have. So perhaps even that may not be meaningful?
>> What are the odds I'd hit the exact same dates from two different suppliers?
>>
>> I'm thinking it's*fairly* safe to assume white ceramic is pre-76, at
>> least.. but yeah.. might be impossible to ever really know. I'm just
>> wondering why the price jumped to $40+ each all of a sudden!
> Brad,
> a very large number of schlock IC sellers all communicate with each other. They all
have a continuous stream of wants or needs that they exchange. but they make their own
prices. The probability is that you may have hit the original stocking guy with your
first query. Querying any others will result in them looking at the wants that others
shared, or buys, and he saw someone else had it and quoted you the same info.
>
> I know this happens as I know two guys who trade in all manner of stock all the time
like this and have for 35 to 40 years.
>
> thanks
> Jim
Considering the first 1101s I ever bought in the early 70s were around
12-14$ each in small volumes (24-48).
By the mid 1975s they had dropped to a buck or so as there were faster
and denser parts. But then the first 2102s
cost me about 14$ in early 74 so that was the way it was.
Allison
2714
days inactive
2717
days old
11 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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ajp166＠verizon.net -
AppleCorey＠optonline.net -
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jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
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vintagecomputer＠bettercomputing.net