14 Dec
2017
14 Dec
'17
8:23 a.m.
From: William Degnan
1) the console rom does not go in any of the 4
bootstrap slots, these
should be empty for now. There is a special console rom slot.
Just to clarify, by "slot", you don't mean 'backplane slot', you
mean 'socket
(on the card)', right?
Also, note that the console/diagnostic ROM is a different size (bit-wise; I'm
not sure about the physical package) from the bootstrap ROMs.
6) possibly the only switch to worry about now is the
power on auto
jump to console switch.
I'd leave that, too, until we get the software console to run when started
manually - at the moment, the ROM's not working, so that switch is irrelevant.
Noel
14 Dec
14 Dec
8:59 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Yes of course bad choice of words. The console ROM socket is separate from
the 4 bootstrap ROM sockets.
From: William
Degnan
1) the console rom does not go in any of the 4
bootstrap slots, these
should be empty for now. There is a special console rom slot.
Just to clarify, by "slot", you don't mean 'backplane slot', you
mean
'socket
(on the card)', right?
Also, note that the console/diagnostic ROM is a different size (bit-wise;
I'm
not sure about the physical package) from the bootstrap ROMs.
Yes but if it's on and when you power up the system no @ sign appears at
the terminal that says it's not autostarting the console. At least knowing
what to expect (off or on) is what's important.
As I said, the 11/04 has specific wire jumper settings. Such as W8. These
must be correct for the CPU, the UNIBUS must be in a non DC LO AC LO, etc.
I went through all this with my 11/40 (not 04) and it was a great way to
learn about and diagnose the machine function.
b
6) possibly the only switch to worry about now is
the power on auto
jump to console switch.
I'd leave that, too, until we get the software console to run when started
manually - at the moment, the ROM's not working, so that switch is
irrelevant.
10:46 a.m.
I have it working now.? I had to go into XP settings for the comm port.
@L<spc>777<cr>
@E<spc><cr>
000777 173200 165212 000777
So, next is to hook up to the RL02.? I will start a new thread for that.
On 12/14/2017 7:23 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
--
Sincerely,
John Welch
281-353-4706 Home
713-725-7017 Cell
:qw
From: William
Degnan
1) the console rom does not go in any of the 4
bootstrap slots, these
should be empty for now. There is a special console rom slot.
Just to clarify, by "slot", you don't mean 'backplane slot', you
mean 'socket
(on the card)', right?
Also, note that the console/diagnostic ROM is a different size (bit-wise; I'm
not sure about the physical package) from the bootstrap ROMs.
6) possibly the only switch to worry about now is
the power on auto
jump to console switch.
I'd leave that, too, until we get the software console to run when started
manually - at the moment, the ROM's not working, so that switch is irrelevant.
Noel
10:59 a.m.
New subject: RL02 hook up to 11/04
Now that I have the 11/04 running the next step is to hook up to the RL02.
I need to run a cable from the M7762 to one of the connectors on the
back of the RL02.? I have cabling stripped from a 11/04.
Is there a terminator that goes on the other connector on the RL02? The
machine that was stripped actually was a RL01, I hope the cable is the
same and if not someone will be able to advise me on that.
Do I need to set any jumpers on the M7762?
Are there any other things I should do the the RL02 prior to plugging it
into the wall and powering it on?
Sincerely,
John Welch
2:02 p.m.
New subject: RL02 hook up to 11/04
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:59 AM, John Welch via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Now that I have the 11/04 running the next step is to
hook up to the RL02.
Excellent.
I need to run a cable from the M7762 to one of the
connectors on the back of
the RL02. I have cabling stripped from a 11/04.
Is there a terminator that goes on the other connector on the RL02?
There should be. You will need one. RL02 cabling and terminators is
a frequent topic here. The terminator is identical for the RL01/RL02
and RK06/RK07. The round cables are not (one has all the pairs, one
has enough pairs for its controller but not the other, but the pairs
they have in common are identically placed).
The
machine that was stripped actually was a RL01, I hope the cable is the same
and if not someone will be able to advise me on that.
There is no difference between RL01 and RL02 cabling and you can mix
them on the same controller at the same time. I did this myself when
I owned an 11/23 w/RLV11 and an RL01 (borrowed from my PDP-8/a) and my
boss loaned me an RL02 that we used to transport data/code to/from the
customer site (our datafiles were over 5MB so I _needed_ an RL02 and
they were a couple of grand back then).
Do I need to set any jumpers on the M7762?
Typically, the RL11 gets set for the primary CSR (I don't remember
without checking the docs how the vector is set), and unless you want
to put a second RL11 in the same machine (unusual), you pretty much
never change the jumpers.
Are there any other things I should do the the RL02
prior to plugging it
into the wall and powering it on?
Before first power-on? Depends on how long it's been since it was
last powered up (PSU checkout and such). The thing you'll want to do
before using it is to open the lid and check for the head lock before
mounting a pack and putting it online. Do notice if all your
lightbulbs work. I rarely use WRITE LOCK, so I borrow that bulb if
any of the others burn out.
Do wipe down the cartridge area with a lint-free wipe (I have a pack
of kimwipes I bought for such purposes) moistened with some IPA
(isopropanol / 1,2propanol) Get any loose dust off the interior
surfaces.
-ethan
2:10 p.m.
New subject: RL02 hook up to 11/04
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:59 AM, John Welch via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Now that I have the 11/04 running the next step is to
hook up to the RL02.
I need to run a cable from the M7762 to one of the connectors on the back
of the RL02. I have cabling stripped from a 11/04.
Is there a terminator that goes on the other connector on the RL02? The
machine that was stripped actually was a RL01, I hope the cable is the same
and if not someone will be able to advise me on that.
Do I need to set any jumpers on the M7762?
Are there any other things I should do the the RL02 prior to plugging it
into the wall and powering it on?
Sincerely,
John Welch
Assuming you have a bridge adapter that goes between the flat cable and the
drive cable. The bottom drive port should be terminated if you're not
connecting to a 2nd drive. Here is how I learned what I needed:
http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html
Bill
2:18 p.m.
New subject: RL02 hook up to 11/04
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:10 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:59 AM, John Welch via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The ROM part number should be 751A9, if you're using a 9312, that's the
ROM
for the RL01/RL02. The command is DL0 or DL1. If you use "DL" it assumes
drive 0. You can boot off of any drive however. You can install the ROM
in any slot.
Bill
Now that I have the 11/04 running the next step
is to hook up to the RL02.
I need to run a cable from the M7762 to one of the connectors on the back
of the RL02. I have cabling stripped from a 11/04.
Is there a terminator that goes on the other connector on the RL02? The
machine that was stripped actually was a RL01, I hope the cable is the same
and if not someone will be able to advise me on that.
Do I need to set any jumpers on the M7762?
Are there any other things I should do the the RL02 prior to plugging it
into the wall and powering it on?
Sincerely,
John Welch
Assuming you have a bridge adapter that goes between the flat cable and
the drive cable. The bottom drive port should be terminated if you're not
connecting to a 2nd drive. Here is how I learned what I needed:
http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html
Bill
2:20 p.m.
New subject: RL02 hook up to 11/04
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:18 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:10 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
Sorry...any of the 4 bootstrap ROM sockets. (not slot *banging head
against cabinet*)
b
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:59 AM, John Welch via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The ROM part number should be 751A9, if you're using a 9312, that's the
ROM for the RL01/RL02. The command is DL0 or DL1. If you use "DL" it
assumes drive 0. You can boot off of any drive however. You can install
the ROM in any slot.
Bill
Now that I have the 11/04 running the next step
is to hook up to the
RL02.
I need to run a cable from the M7762 to one of the connectors on the
back of the RL02. I have cabling stripped from a 11/04.
Is there a terminator that goes on the other connector on the RL02? The
machine that was stripped actually was a RL01, I hope the cable is the same
and if not someone will be able to advise me on that.
Do I need to set any jumpers on the M7762?
Are there any other things I should do the the RL02 prior to plugging it
into the wall and powering it on?
Sincerely,
John Welch
Assuming you have a bridge adapter that goes between the flat cable and
the drive cable. The bottom drive port should be terminated if you're not
connecting to a 2nd drive. Here is how I learned what I needed:
http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html
Bill
5:29 p.m.
New subject: RL02 hook up to 11/04
Thanks!
I have everything ready to go..... Except is the flat Berg cable keyed??
The connector for the terminal had "AB" and "UUVV" marked.? This cable
has a black strip on one side and it has "0" on the flat face on one end.
On 12/14/2017 1:20 PM, william degnan wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:18 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com
<mailto:billdegnan at gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:10 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com <mailto:billdegnan at gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:59 AM, John Welch via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>> wrote:
Now that I have the 11/04 running the next step is to hook
up to the RL02.
I need to run a cable from the M7762 to one of the
connectors on the back of the RL02.? I have cabling
stripped from a 11/04.
Is there a terminator that goes on the other connector on
the RL02? The machine that was stripped actually was a
RL01, I hope the cable is the same and if not someone will
be able to advise me on that.
Do I need to set any jumpers on the M7762?
Are there any other things I should do the the RL02 prior
to plugging it into the wall and powering it on?
Sincerely,
John Welch
Assuming you have a bridge adapter that goes between the flat
cable and the drive cable.? The bottom drive port should be
terminated if you're not connecting to a 2nd drive.? Here is
how I learned what I needed:
http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html
<http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html>
Bill
The ROM part number should be?751A9, if you're using a 9312,
that's the ROM for the RL01/RL02. The command is DL0 or DL1.? If
you use "DL" it assumes drive 0.? You can boot off of any drive
however.? You can install the ROM in any slot.
Bill
Sorry...any of the 4 bootstrap ROM sockets.? (not slot *banging head
against cabinet*)
b
--
Sincerely,
John Welch
281-353-4706 Home
713-725-7017 Cell
:qw
7:08 p.m.
New subject: RL02 hook up to 11/04
If the flat cable from the controller is plunged in backwards, you will
just get a "fault" indicator on the drive to light up.
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:29 PM, John Welch via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Thanks!
I have everything ready to go..... Except is the flat Berg cable keyed?
The connector for the terminal had "AB" and "UUVV" marked. This
cable has
a black strip on one side and it has "0" on the flat face on one end.
On 12/14/2017 1:20 PM, william degnan wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:18 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com
<mailto:billdegnan at gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:10 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com <mailto:billdegnan at gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:59 AM, John Welch via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>> wrote:
Now that I have the 11/04 running the next step is to hook
up to the RL02.
I need to run a cable from the M7762 to one of the
connectors on the back of the RL02. I have cabling
stripped from a 11/04.
Is there a terminator that goes on the other connector on
the RL02? The machine that was stripped actually was a
RL01, I hope the cable is the same and if not someone will
be able to advise me on that.
Do I need to set any jumpers on the M7762?
Are there any other things I should do the the RL02 prior
to plugging it into the wall and powering it on?
Sincerely,
John Welch
Assuming you have a bridge adapter that goes between the flat
cable and the drive cable. The bottom drive port should be
terminated if you're not connecting to a 2nd drive. Here is
how I learned what I needed:
http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html
<http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html>
Bill
The ROM part number should be 751A9, if you're using a 9312,
that's the ROM for the RL01/RL02. The command is DL0 or DL1. If
you use "DL" it assumes drive 0. You can boot off of any drive
however. You can install the ROM in any slot.
Bill
Sorry...any of the 4 bootstrap ROM sockets. (not slot *banging head
against cabinet*)
b
--
Sincerely,
John Welch
281-353-4706 Home
713-725-7017 Cell
:qw
10:01 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
Is there a simple cluedge to convert the indicator light on RL02 from
one number to another?? My RL02 has the "2" and I likely need to change
that to a "0"
Also, I want to examine the contents of the RL02 and hopefully transfer
them to the PC to run on SIMH.? Is the windows version of VTServer [
http://home.windstream.net/engdahl/vtserver.htm ] the right tool for
this job?
Sincerely,
John Welch
15 Dec
15 Dec
12:33 a.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
thers 3d printer files for that i forget where
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:01 PM, John Welch via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Is there a simple cluedge to convert the indicator
light on RL02 from one
number to another? My RL02 has the "2" and I likely need to change that to
a "0"
Also, I want to examine the contents of the RL02 and hopefully transfer
them to the PC to run on SIMH. Is the windows version of VTServer [
http://home.windstream.net/engdahl/vtserver.htm ] the right tool for this
job?
Sincerely,
John Welch
2:31 a.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
You can simply boot with thr commanf
@ DL2
PDPGUI is a great tool to build actual disks from a simh rl02 image. This
way you can test first, get it working, then transfer via m7856 and m9312.
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Dec 15, 2017 12:33 AM, "Adrian Stoness via cctalk" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
wrote:
thers 3d printer files for that i forget where
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:01 PM, John Welch via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Is there a simple cluedge to convert the
indicator light on RL02 from one
number to another? My RL02 has the "2" and I likely need to change that
to
a "0"
Also, I want to examine the contents of the RL02 and hopefully transfer
them to the PC to run on SIMH. Is the windows version of VTServer [
http://home.windstream.net/engdahl/vtserver.htm ] the right tool for
this
job?
Sincerely,
John Welch
2:36 a.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
From: Adrian Stoness via cctalk: Thursday, December 14, 2017 9:33 PM
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:01 PM, John Welch via cctalk
wrote:
> Is there a simple cluedge to convert the indicator light on RL02 from one
> number to another? My RL02 has the "2" and I likely need to change that
to
> a "0"
thers 3d printer files for that i forget where
Mine are available here:
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
It's a fairly finicky print. Fine detail and cantilevered thin pins that need
to be straight and reasonably strong.
Shapeways does a fine job printing them for about $4, though.
Vince
9:15 a.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Mine are available here:
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
It's a fairly finicky print. Fine detail and cantilevered thin pins that
need to be straight and reasonably strong.
I printed out one on a FormLabs Form1+. Came out very nicely.
Shapeways does a fine job printing them for about $4,
though.
I don't know that it was much cheaper when I did it - the resin is $125/liter.
The advantage of Shapeways is you can have it made out of something
less brittle than FormLab resin. My part will work, but I wouldn't
want to drop it - the legs would probably shatter.
-ethan
9:38 a.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
vtserver does indeed work for transferring RL02 contents to a binary image,
suitable for use with SIMH or E11 or whatever. Be advised, it takes a
*long* time, even on a 11/73 with the serial port turned up to 38400 bps.
Thanks,
Jonathan
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Vincent Slyngstad via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Mine are available here:
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
It's a fairly finicky print. Fine detail and cantilevered thin pins that
need to be straight and reasonably strong.
I printed out one on a FormLabs Form1+. Came out very nicely.
Shapeways does a fine job printing them for about
$4, though.
I don't know that it was much cheaper when I did it - the resin is
$125/liter.
The advantage of Shapeways is you can have it made out of something
less brittle than FormLab resin. My part will work, but I wouldn't
want to drop it - the legs would probably shatter.
-ethan
1:34 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:38 AM, systems_glitch
<systems.glitch at gmail.com> wrote:
vtserver does indeed work for transferring RL02
contents to a binary image,
suitable for use with SIMH or E11 or whatever.
Yep. I backed up the RD52 in a new-to-me MicroPDP-11 and it took hours.
Be advised, it takes a *long*
time, even on a 11/73 with the serial port turned up to 38400 bps.
Has anyone done any console serial port hacking for speed on Qbus or
Unibus? On something integrated like a KDF11-B it might not be so
easy, but maybe a DLV11J or a DL11W?
I'd think hitting 115200 would be really sweet, if everything can keep
up. Totally worth some experimentation to see what part gives out at
ludicrous speed.
-ethan
1:40 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:38 AM, systems_glitch
<systems.glitch at gmail.com> wrote:
My method of creating images of several RL02 disks was to set up a
PDP-11 system running 2.11BSD with an RL02 controller and Ethernet
interface, then 'dd' the disks to image files on the local system and
then FTP the image files out to a modern system. Still seemed slow,
but not as slow as a serial port connection.
vtserver does indeed work for transferring RL02
contents to a binary image,
suitable for use with SIMH or E11 or whatever.
Yep. I backed up the RD52 in a new-to-me MicroPDP-11 and it took hours.
Be advised, it takes a *long*
time, even on a 11/73 with the serial port turned up to 38400 bps.
Has anyone done any console serial port hacking for speed on Qbus or
Unibus? On something integrated like a KDF11-B it might not be so
easy, but maybe a DLV11J or a DL11W?
I'd think hitting 115200 would be really sweet, if everything can keep
up. Totally worth some experimentation to see what part gives out at
ludicrous speed.
-ethan
1:49 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
It's on my list of things to do -- you can run external clock into DL11 and
DLV11-J style connectors, and IM6402 UARTs are supposed to go up to 2 mbit,
so somewhere between 38400 and 2 mbit should be possible. I believe it'll
require external RS-232 transceivers due to the design of the ones used on
various DEC boards. As you say, whether or not the bus/CPU can keep up is
another matter! Figure if I can get any real improvement out of it, I'll
lay out a board and provide high-speed kits.
Anyone know of a 40-pin UART with a FIFO? :)
Thanks,
Jonathan
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:38 AM, systems_glitch
<systems.glitch at gmail.com> wrote:
vtserver does indeed work for transferring RL02
contents to a binary
image,
suitable for use with SIMH or E11 or whatever.
Yep. I backed up the RD52 in a new-to-me MicroPDP-11 and it took hours.
Be advised, it takes a *long*
time, even on a 11/73 with the serial port turned up to 38400 bps.
Has anyone done any console serial port hacking for speed on Qbus or
Unibus? On something integrated like a KDF11-B it might not be so
easy, but maybe a DLV11J or a DL11W?
I'd think hitting 115200 would be really sweet, if everything can keep
up. Totally worth some experimentation to see what part gives out at
ludicrous speed.
-ethan
1:51 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
This would be the Right Way. I've got my PDP-11/73 set up for that, I still
need to build the kernel driver for the Ethernet interface and get TCP/IP
going. I have dozens of RX02 floppies to work through, much faster than
serial, and the vtserver `rx` driver has a bug in it anyway where it
continues reading past the end of the media (not harmful to the disk/drive,
but you have to sit there and watch it).
Thanks,
Jonathan
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Ethan Dicks via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
My method of creating images of several RL02 disks was to set up a
PDP-11 system running 2.11BSD with an RL02 controller and Ethernet
interface, then 'dd' the disks to image files on the local system and
then FTP the image files out to a modern system. Still seemed slow,
but not as slow as a serial port connection.
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:38 AM, systems_glitch
<systems.glitch at gmail.com> wrote:
> vtserver does indeed work for transferring RL02 contents to a binary
image,
suitable
for use with SIMH or E11 or whatever.
Yep. I backed up the RD52 in a new-to-me MicroPDP-11 and it took hours.
Be advised, it takes a *long*
time, even on a 11/73 with the serial port turned up to 38400 bps.
Has anyone done any console serial port hacking for speed on Qbus or
Unibus? On something integrated like a KDF11-B it might not be so
easy, but maybe a DLV11J or a DL11W?
I'd think hitting 115200 would be really sweet, if everything can keep
up. Totally worth some experimentation to see what part gives out at
ludicrous speed.
-ethan
2:20 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
From: Ethan Dicks: Friday, December 15, 2017 6:15 AM
I hear there are less brittle resins these days, but yeah. If the resin
is like the resin print from Shapeways, I'd even worry that a bit of
torque inserting or removing it would snap off a pin.
The sintered nylon from Shapeways, on the other hand, is tough,
only a few bucks, and minimal hassle (except for the wait). Even
comes out in translucent white :-).
Are there another print vendors/technologies folks have had luck
with with small, finely detailed replacement parts?
Vince
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Vincent Slyngstad via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Yeah, I think a resin printer should handle the detail nicely.
Mine are available here:
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
It's a fairly finicky print. Fine detail and cantilevered thin pins that
need to be straight and reasonably strong.
I printed out one on a FormLabs Form1+. Came out very nicely. Shapeways does
a fine job printing them for about $4, though.
I don't know that it was much cheaper when I did it - the resin is $125/liter.
The advantage of Shapeways is you can have it made out of something
less brittle than FormLab resin. My part will work, but I wouldn't
want to drop it - the legs would probably shatter.
2:22 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:49 PM, systems_glitch
<systems.glitch at gmail.com> wrote:
It's on my list of things to do -- you can run
external clock into DL11 and
DLV11-J style connectors, and IM6402 UARTs are supposed to go up to 2 mbit,
so somewhere between 38400 and 2 mbit should be possible.
Good to know the IM6402s will go that fast.
I believe it'll
require external RS-232 transceivers due to the design of the ones used on
various DEC boards.
Yeah... that's kinda why I was thinking of hacking a DLV11J or
DL11-W... I have a number of each of those and have no problems making
multiple changes for the purposes of media slurping. They are common
boards and hacking 1-2 of them isn't going to increase scarcity.
A side-effect of modding the DLV11J could be high-speed TU58 emulation...
Figure if I can get any real improvement out of it,
I'll lay
out a board and provide high-speed kits.
I'm available for any experimentation, etc. I have plenty of
mid-range PDP-11 hardware for this sort of experimentation.
Anyone know of a 40-pin UART with a FIFO? :)
I do not, but it would have to be a transparent FIFO - that was one of
the problems with the 8250/16550 was the host code had to know about
the FIFO, so the 16550 worked fine as a 8250 but also supported the
16-byte FIFO that drastically cut interrupt overhead. I do not know
of any material enhancements to the IM6402 in any subsequent chips.
-ethan
2:57 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
Van: Ethan Dicks via cctalk<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Verzonden: vrijdag 15 december 2017 19:34
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<mailto:cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Onderwerp: Re: RL02 to PC image
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:38 AM, systems_glitch
<systems.glitch at gmail.com> wrote:
vtserver does indeed work for transferring RL02
contents to a binary image,
suitable for use with SIMH or E11 or whatever.
Yep. I backed up the RD52 in a new-to-me MicroPDP-11 and it took hours.
Be advised, it takes a *long*
time, even on a 11/73 with the serial port turned up to 38400 bps.
Has anyone done any console serial port hacking for speed on Qbus or
Unibus? On something integrated like a KDF11-B it might not be so
easy, but maybe a DLV11J or a DL11W?
I'd think hitting 115200 would be really sweet, if everything can keep
up. Totally worth some experimentation to see what part gives out at
ludicrous speed.
-ethan
I have not yet had time to build/test it, but a few months ago there
was an RL01/RL02 emulator project on VCF. You need a PDP-11
with RL11 controller. The RL0x emultor connects to the RL11
just as an RL01/RL02 disk drive and you can assign it any drive
number (0 - 3).
But what is really nice is that the emulator cooperates with
real RL drives. So, you can have one real RL0x drive and up
to 3 ?emulated? RL drives. The storage is a flash card.
The RT-11) command .COPY DL0:*.* DL1: works (where #0 is real,
and #1 is flash).
After the copy you pull the flash card and copy it on a PC.
5:06 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
I have not yet had time to build/test it, but a few months ago there
was an RL01/RL02 emulator project on VCF. You need a PDP-11
with RL11 controller. The RL0x emultor connects to the RL11
just as an RL01/RL02 disk drive and you can assign it any drive
number (0 - 3).
But what is really nice is that the emulator cooperates with
real RL drives. So, you can have one real RL0x drive and up
to 3 ?emulated? RL drives. The storage is a flash card.
The RT-11) command .COPY DL0:*.* DL1: works (where #0 is real,
and #1 is flash).
After the copy you pull the flash card and copy it on a PC.
I still need to build mine....
b
9:59 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
I thought about doing this with an FTDI FT245, which is a parallel to USB FIFO device that
looks like a USB serial port to the USB-side host. USB protocol will manage all the ?flow
control? and so the PDP can write to it as fast as it can.
We did a similar thing on Heathkit H89 and H8 machines, replacing an 8250 UART with the
FT245 and then rolling some code on the Heath side to send and receive files to a PC
host.
--
Chris Elmquist
On Dec 15, 2017, at 12:49 PM, systems_glitch via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
It's on my list of things to do -- you can run external clock into DL11 and
DLV11-J style connectors, and IM6402 UARTs are supposed to go up to 2 mbit,
so somewhere between 38400 and 2 mbit should be possible. I believe it'll
require external RS-232 transceivers due to the design of the ones used on
various DEC boards. As you say, whether or not the bus/CPU can keep up is
another matter! Figure if I can get any real improvement out of it, I'll
lay out a board and provide high-speed kits.
Anyone know of a 40-pin UART with a FIFO? :)
Thanks,
Jonathan
On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:38 AM, systems_glitch
> <systems.glitch at gmail.com> wrote:
>> vtserver does indeed work for transferring RL02 contents to a binary
> image,
>> suitable for use with SIMH or E11 or whatever.
>
> Yep. I backed up the RD52 in a new-to-me MicroPDP-11 and it took hours.
>
>> Be advised, it takes a *long*
>> time, even on a 11/73 with the serial port turned up to 38400 bps.
>
> Has anyone done any console serial port hacking for speed on Qbus or
> Unibus? On something integrated like a KDF11-B it might not be so
> easy, but maybe a DLV11J or a DL11W?
>
> I'd think hitting 115200 would be really sweet, if everything can keep
> up. Totally worth some experimentation to see what part gives out at
> ludicrous speed.
>
> -ethan
>
16 Dec
16 Dec
6:10 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
On Friday (12/15/2017 at 07:57PM +0000), Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
I have not yet had time to build/test it, but a few months ago there
was an RL01/RL02 emulator project on VCF. You need a PDP-11
with RL11 controller. The RL0x emultor connects to the RL11
just as an RL01/RL02 disk drive and you can assign it any drive
number (0 - 3).
But what is really nice is that the emulator cooperates with
real RL drives. So, you can have one real RL0x drive and up
to 3 ?emulated? RL drives. The storage is a flash card.
The RT-11) command .COPY DL0:*.* DL1: works (where #0 is real,
and #1 is flash).
After the copy you pull the flash card and copy it on a PC.
I am interested in this. Does anyone have a reference/link to the thread
on "VCF"? Searching for most of these terms has not found me anything...
In fact, searching for ANYTHING on VCF finds me nothing. Curious.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
6:15 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Chris Elmquist via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Friday (12/15/2017 at 07:57PM +0000), Henk Gooijen
via cctalk wrote:
Chris,
I looked for the thread and I can't find it either. It's almost like
someone deleted old threads, or achieved them. I will check into it.
Bill
I have not yet had time to build/test it, but a few months ago there
was an RL01/RL02 emulator project on VCF. You need a PDP-11
with RL11 controller. The RL0x emultor connects to the RL11
just as an RL01/RL02 disk drive and you can assign it any drive
number (0 - 3).
But what is really nice is that the emulator cooperates with
real RL drives. So, you can have one real RL0x drive and up
to 3 ?emulated? RL drives. The storage is a flash card.
The RT-11) command .COPY DL0:*.* DL1: works (where #0 is real,
and #1 is flash).
After the copy you pull the flash card and copy it on a PC.
I am interested in this. Does anyone have a reference/link to the thread
on "VCF"? Searching for most of these terms has not found me anything...
In fact, searching for ANYTHING on VCF finds me nothing. Curious.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
6:18 p.m.
New subject: RL02 to PC image
On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 6:15 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Chris Elmquist via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58077-DEC-RL01-RL02-disk-emulator…
Bill
On Friday (12/15/2017 at 07:57PM +0000), Henk
Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
Found it
I have not yet had time to build/test it, but a few months ago there
was an RL01/RL02 emulator project on VCF. You need a PDP-11
with RL11 controller. The RL0x emultor connects to the RL11
just as an RL01/RL02 disk drive and you can assign it any drive
number (0 - 3).
But what is really nice is that the emulator cooperates with
real RL drives. So, you can have one real RL0x drive and up
to 3 ?emulated? RL drives. The storage is a flash card.
The RT-11) command .COPY DL0:*.* DL1: works (where #0 is real,
and #1 is flash).
After the copy you pull the flash card and copy it on a PC.
I am interested in this. Does anyone have a reference/link to the thread
on "VCF"? Searching for most of these terms has not found me anything...
In fact, searching for ANYTHING on VCF finds me nothing. Curious.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
2415
days inactive
2417
days old
27 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
jcwelch＠hal-pc.org -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
systems.glitch＠gmail.com -
tdk.knight＠gmail.com -
useddec＠gmail.com -
v.slyngstad＠frontier.com