10 Dec
2006
10 Dec
'06
8:21 p.m.
I've imaged the first of (many) RK05 packs. Here's what I've done so
far (these were done first because they were either cleaned or because
they were still sealed in the *original* DEC shipping boxes):
* PDP-11 F-77/RSX V4.0 (DEC Distribution media)
* RMS-11 V1.8/RSX-11M V3.2 (DEC Distribution media)
* RSX-11M V3.2 AUTOPATCH 1/2 (DEC Distribution media)
* RSX-11M V3.2 AUTOPATCH 2/2 (DEC Distribution media)
* RT11 V4.0 MUBASIC V2 (handwritten label)
* XXDP RKDP PKG #1 (handwritten label)
I'll be putting these up on my website in the next few days (the images
will have been gzip'd to save space and reduce bandwidth).
To wet your appetites, here are some of the other "high" value packs
(these are all DEC Distribution media unless otherwise noted):
* EDU-DECAL (DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CA1 AUTHOR LANGUAGE SYSTEM)
* RSTS V6C RK System 1 of 3 (handwritten)
* RMS-11K/RSX-11M V1.5
* DECNET-11M/S V3.1 1/2
* XXDP Diags RKDP PKG #2 (handwritten)
* CVZZDU0 LSI-11 DKDP+ DIAG PKG
* DECNET-11M/S V3.1 2/2
* RSX-11M AUTO-PATCH REV-D
* RSX11S V2.1
* CTS-300/DIS V1
* SORT-11 V01
* XXDP RKDP DIAG PKG 1
* XXDP RKDP DIAG PKG 2
* XXDP RKDP DIAG PKG 3
* F4/IAS-RSX V2.2
* DECNET-11M/S V2.0 1/2
* RSX11M V3.1 MCRSRC
* RSX11M V3.1 FCPDMP
* MUMPS V04 (handwritten)
* F4-PLUS/RSX V3.0
* DIBOL-11 SOURCE RELEASE 4 (Typed label)
* RSX-11M V3.2 EXC SRC BIN
* COBOL/RSX11M/IAS V4
* COBOL/RSX11M/IAS V3.1 BIN
* DECNET-11M/S V3.1 NET 1/2
I have to clean each of these packs before I image them since they
weren't kept in the original shipping boxes. I also have 170+
additional packs that have all handwritten labels, but weren't as
interesting as what I've already listed. Cleaning a pack takes about 20
minutes (including disassembly and reassembly) so don't expect these to
be done quickly.
Except for the two packs that I've cleaned myself (above), I'm not sure
if the contents of the packs match what the labels indicate. I've also
discovered that DEC distribution packs (at least the ones I've read so
far) only format the first 202 cylinders (vs a max of 203 cylinders).
--
TTFN - Guy
10 Dec
10 Dec
8:26 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs (was: RK05 images)
In article <457CB284.4070406 at shiresoft.com>,
Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> writes:
[...] Cleaning a pack takes about 20
minutes (including disassembly and reassembly) so don't expect these to
be done quickly.
Just out of curiosity, what's your procedure for cleaning them?
Is there a similar procedure that should be done for RL01 disk packs?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
11 Dec
11 Dec
1:13 a.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs (was: RK05 images)
On Sunday 10 December 2006 19:47, William Donzelli wrote:
The 8th Printing (Third Edition) of the RK05 maintenance manual has in section
5.3.8 "Cartridge Cleaning Procedure". It's quite detailed and explains how
to
discern regular wear from different types of real damage; lots of details of
how to clean, etc. (I looked at an earlier edition of the manual - and that
section was not present.)
I have cleaned many RL0x and RK05 packs - and never had a disk crash or loss
of data as a result of cleaning.
For those of us who have replaced heads on RL0x drives - cleaning a pack is in
contrast a very simple procedure. I never use any pack I obtain from a third
party without cleaning it before use.
Do follow the instructions in the maintenance manual.
I always use absolute isopropal alcohol (i.e., 99.95%) and lint free pads,
etc. to clean packs - in as clean an environment as possible.
Cheers,
Lyle
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
Mountain View, CA
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
Just out of
curiosity, what's your procedure for cleaning them?
The proper procedure is to pay $50 for one of the legacy disk vendors
to clean them correctly.
3:05 a.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
William Donzelli wrote:
Yea, and with 200+ packs...that's $10,000+...I think
I'll do it myself.
--
TTFN - Guy
Just out of
curiosity, what's your procedure for cleaning them?
The proper procedure is to pay $50 for one of the legacy disk vendors
to clean them correctly. 
10:25 a.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs (was: RK05 images)
On Dec 10, 2006, at 10:47 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Wow, how nicely self-sufficient!
Unless those legacy disk vendors employ true old-timers to handle
their disk cleaning services, chances are good that people here know
more about RK05s than they do. I buy KimWipes by the case on
eBay...I'll clean my own damn packs, thank you. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Cape Coral, FL
Just out of
curiosity, what's your procedure for cleaning them?
The proper procedure is to pay $50 for one of the legacy disk vendors
to clean them correctly. 
2:29 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs (was: RK05 images)
Just out of curiosity, what's your procedure
for cleaning them?
The proper procedure is to pay $50 for one of the legacy disk vendors
to clean them correctly. 
3:01 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
Tony Duell wrote:
Now, the manuals for the RLs and RK06/07 specificially
warn against
cleaning the packs by hand. I would guess the higher bit density of
those drives implies a lower flying height of the heads, and thus more
likelyhood of a headcrash if you damaga the platter surface in cleaning.
However, I do wonder if it is possivle to do it youself, and if so, what
to do. Remmeber many of us have facilities, tools and equipment that
would not have been avaialbe to the average customer or even field service,
Now all this is starting to worry me. Is it possible that I've got away
with a hell of a lot in just assuming that my packs and RL02 drives are
good?
Gordon
4:38 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs (was: RK05 images)
In article <m1Gtqpp-000IzHC at p850ug1>,
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes:
Now, the manuals for the RLs and RK06/07 specificially
warn against
cleaning the packs by hand. [...]
Whats the density of an RL01 compared to an RK05?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
12 Dec
12 Dec
1:53 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs (was: RK05 images)
In article <m1Gtqpp-000IzHC at p850ug1>,
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes:
Twice as much data per surface (approximately), I have an idea it's about
the same number of cylinders (202 on the RK05, 256 on the RL01?) The RL02 is
twice as many cylinders as the RL01, otherwise everything's the same.
More importantly (for thsi) the flying height of the heads is half as
high on the RL's as on the RK05 according to the manual. The figures 100
microns for the RK05 and 50 microns for the RL01 spring to mind but I
might be mis-remembering them.
-tony
Now, the manuals for the RLs and RK06/07
specificially warn against
cleaning the packs by hand. [...]
Whats the density of an RL01 compared to an RK05?
2:25 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs (was: RK05 images)
In article <m1GuClO-000IzFC at p850ug1>,
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes:
More importantly (for thsi) the flying height of the
heads is half as
high on the RL's as on the RK05 according to the manual. The figures 100
microns for the RK05 and 50 microns for the RL01 spring to mind but I
might be mis-remembering them.
That's a good point, I should check the head height from my docs.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
11 Dec
11 Dec
3:13 a.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
Richard wrote:
In article <457CB284.4070406 at shiresoft.com>,
Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> writes:
See Lyle's reply below. It's not really that hard. I usually clean the
outside of the pack first to get as much crud off of the pack before I
split it open. I then remove the screws that hold the two halves of the
pack (every other one around...2 passes and all of the screws are out).
Since the pack is upside down to remove the screws I then remove the
bottom cover. At this point the platter can be removed. I use 99.9%
alcohol and lint free cloths. Having the platter exposed allows for
careful inspection of the surfaces. I'm *very* conservative about the
condition of the platter. I've rejected a number of platters already
because of scratches, groves, burnt oxide, etc. I then clean the inside
of the pack (usually just blow air). Reassembly is the reverse of
disassembly(tm).
[...] Cleaning a pack takes about 20
minutes (including disassembly and reassembly) so don't expect these to
be done quickly.
Just out of curiosity, what's your procedure for cleaning them?
Is there a similar procedure that should be done for
RL01 disk packs?
I have an automatic pack cleaner for RL01/02 packs.
--
TTFN - Guy
10:20 a.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
In article <457D1344.308 at shiresoft.com>,
Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> writes:
Really?! What's that look like? How did you come across one?
Do you have photos? :-)
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
Is there a
similar procedure that should be done for RL01 disk packs?
I have an automatic pack cleaner for RL01/02 packs. 
11:33 a.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
Richard wrote:
I have one for RK05 cartridges.
Very funny to see it in operation, a little arm with cleanin pads attached
to it move very slowely out and in while the disk spins at around 3 - 5 rpm.
Ed
In article <457CB284.4070406 at
shiresoft.com>,
Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> writes:
See Lyle's reply below. It's not really that hard. I usually clean the
outside of the pack first to get as much crud off of the pack before I
split it open. I then remove the screws that hold the two halves of the
pack (every other one around...2 passes and all of the screws are out).
Since the pack is upside down to remove the screws I then remove the
bottom cover. At this point the platter can be removed. I use 99.9%
alcohol and lint free cloths. Having the platter exposed allows for
careful inspection of the surfaces. I'm *very* conservative about the
condition of the platter. I've rejected a number of platters already
because of scratches, groves, burnt oxide, etc. I then clean the inside
of the pack (usually just blow air). Reassembly is the reverse of
disassembly(tm).
[...] Cleaning a pack takes about 20
minutes (including disassembly and reassembly) so don't expect these to
be done quickly.
Just out of curiosity, what's your procedure for cleaning them?
Is there a similar procedure that should be done
for RL01 disk packs?
I have an automatic pack cleaner for RL01/02 packs.
11:55 a.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
In article <24446.88.211.153.27.1165854839.squirrel at webmail.xs4all.nl>,
"Ed Groenenberg" <quapla at xs4all.nl> writes:
So as a user of modern hard drives this just sounds inredible to me.
I take it that older disk packs, while still fragile, are less
susceptible to minor surface abrasians caused by the cleaning pads
swiping the dirt off?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
I have an
automatic pack cleaner for RL01/02 packs.
I have one for RK05 cartridges.
Very funny to see it in operation, a little arm with cleanin pads attached
to it move very slowely out and in while the disk spins at around 3 - 5 rpm. 
1:20 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
Richard wrote:
So as a user of modern hard drives this just sounds
inredible to me.
I take it that older disk packs, while still fragile, are less
susceptible to minor surface abrasians caused by the cleaning pads
swiping the dirt off?
These older disk packs were NOT sealed units, and the bit density
is a lot lower than you see on modern disk drives. If you put
"magna-view" on those platters, you could probably read off the
data just using your eyeballs, or maybe a cheap magnifing glass,
when it isn't being used to fry ants.
The surface abrasions that a cleaning pad would make were
unlikely to cause any problems; while the hair, dirt, dust, bugs,
spider webs, flaking oxides, etc., that were frequently found
in drive packs, were a frequent cause of problems.
2:23 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
I have an
automatic pack cleaner for RL01/02 packs.
I have one for RK05 cartridges.
Very funny to see it in operation, a little arm with cleanin pads attached
to it move very slowely out and in while the disk spins at around 3 - 5 rpm.
4:18 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
I have an automatic pack cleaner for RL01/02 packs.
I have one for RK05 cartridges.
Very funny to see it in operation, a little arm with cleanin pads
attached
to it move very slowely out and in while the disk spins at around 3 - 5
rpm.
1:55 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
See Lyle's reply below. It's not really that
hard. I usually clean the
outside of the pack first to get as much crud off of the pack before I
split it open. I then remove the screws that hold the two halves of the
pack (every other one around...2 passes and all of the screws are out).
I don;t think it matters, since the outer casing performs no function in
aligning or even supporting the platter when the disk is in the drive,
but I;d undo them working 'across the centre'. That is, if the screws are
numbered 1 to 8 going round the pack (IIRC there are 8 screws), I'd undo
them in the order 1, 5, 3, 7, 2, 6, 4, 8
Since the pack is upside down to remove the screws I
then remove the
bottom cover. At this point the platter can be removed. I use 99.9%
alcohol and lint free cloths. Having the platter exposed allows for
careful inspection of the surfaces. I'm *very* conservative about the
condition of the platter. I've rejected a number of platters already
because of scratches, groves, burnt oxide, etc. I then clean the inside
of the pack (usually just blow air). Reassembly is the reverse of
disassembly(tm).
One thing that the manual mentions is that when you insert a screw, turn
it anticlockwise (counterclockwise) until you feel the threads engage and
then do it up. Not just to avoid stripping the threads if the screw cuts
a new thread in the plastic, but also to prevent debris from being
produced by cutting the thread.
Don't remove the platter from the hub. You'll lose the centring (which
can,, in therory, be set up using a clock gage with the ub mounted on the
drive's spindle, turned by hand), but you'll also lose the rotational
alingment between the data on the disk and the sector notches on the hub
(thse packs are hard-sectored).
And handle the disk by the hub. Handling by the edges is much more likely
to get grease from your fingers onto the platter surfaces.
-tony
4:49 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
Richard wrote:
In article <457CB284.4070406 at shiresoft.com>,
Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> writes:
Disassembling any pack I saw most usually resulted in a destroyed
drive. The packs
even at $1000 ea were way cheaper than the drives, so if any cleaning
required something
approaching disassembly of the stack, you tossed it (and let some
classiccmp collector
like me hoard it for 20+ years then sell it on ebay as "unknown NOS" or
such :-)
anyway, I bought a pack inspector which has a number of spindles, which
can release
the cover, and allow the pack to be moved manually with precision, and
it also has
two mirror units which will allow you to view the surface w/o any
disassembly.
There is no motor, only manual moving of the pack, but they did have a
catch which
allows you to have a reference when you pass the same place in the
rotation, other than
that it free spins. There is also a light source, and another
attachment that allows you to
mount a micrometer with a feeler to check for out of round, or bent
platters.
when I had a pack cleaned, they used this sort of unit in a clean room
to clean and
certify the pack (in the early 80's time frame).
Jim
[...] Cleaning a pack takes about 20
minutes (including disassembly and reassembly) so don't expect these to
be done quickly.
6:02 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning disk packs
RK05' s are fairly easy to clean. I cleaned a couple of 'em for my 11/23
with some texwipes and 97% isopropyl alcohol.
DEC used to have techsleeves that went over the top of a plastic applicator
and I also used them when saturated with alcohol -- to clean the RK05 packs.
Never had a problem on my packs... also did the RK05F pack.
Bill
On 12/11/06, jim stephens <jwstephens at msm.umr.edu> wrote:
Richard wrote:
In article <457CB284.4070406 at
shiresoft.com>,
Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> writes:
Disassembling any pack I saw most usually resulted in a destroyed
drive. The packs
even at $1000 ea were way cheaper than the drives, so if any cleaning
required something
approaching disassembly of the stack, you tossed it (and let some
classiccmp collector
like me hoard it for 20+ years then sell it on ebay as "unknown NOS" or
such :-)
anyway, I bought a pack inspector which has a number of spindles, which
can release
the cover, and allow the pack to be moved manually with precision, and
it also has
two mirror units which will allow you to view the surface w/o any
disassembly.
There is no motor, only manual moving of the pack, but they did have a
catch which
allows you to have a reference when you pass the same place in the
rotation, other than
that it free spins. There is also a light source, and another
attachment that allows you to
mount a micrometer with a feeler to check for out of round, or bent
platters.
when I had a pack cleaned, they used this sort of unit in a clean room
to clean and
certify the pack (in the early 80's time frame).
Jim
[...] Cleaning a pack takes about 20
minutes (including disassembly and reassembly) so don't expect these to
be done quickly.
6413
days inactive
6414
days old
21 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
gordon＠gjcp.net -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
kth＠srv.net -
lbickley＠bickleywest.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pechter＠gmail.com -
quapla＠xs4all.nl -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com