11 Jun
2016
11 Jun
'16
5:53 a.m.
Hi
I have had some success in fixing a couple of TK tape drives.
They now load and unload every time you press the button.
SFSG now to talk to them from RT.
Using the diagnostics on the format (RX50) disk the Identify function
shows the drive and by inference its controller.
However its calls it MUX. I seem to remember under RT you needed to do
a SET or ASSIGN to link it to the driver.
Anybody know the correct syntax so I can init the tape and start to
read and write files to and from it.
Rod
11 Jun
11 Jun
11:14 a.m.
Rod Smallwood wrote:
I have had some success in fixing a couple of TK tape
drives.
They now load and unload every time you press the button.
SFSG now to talk to them from RT.
Using the diagnostics on the format (RX50) disk the Identify function
shows the drive and by inference its controller.
However its calls it MUX. I seem to remember under RT you needed to
do a SET or ASSIGN to link it to the driver.
Anybody know the correct syntax so I can init the tape and start to
read and write files to and from it.
I really don't understand the question.
Whenever I used either the TK50 or the TK70 under RT-11,
the device name was TU0: and no SET or ASSIGN was required
unless the CSR and / or VECTOR needed to be modified - which
never happened since the standard CSR / VECTOR was always OK.
By the way, while the TK50 is mostly reasonable in WRITE mode
and COPY operations, a COMPARE leaves a lot to be desired.
The TK70 solves that problem. If you must COMPARE with the
TK50, COPY the files(s) to a scratch disk first.
To initialize the tape for files:
INIT TU0:
COPY SY:*.SAV TU0:
I suggest you use the NOREWIND option between files if you
are writing more than one file per command. If you don't, you
will quickly realize why that option is preferred.
To initialize the take for a BACKUP:
INIT/BACKUP TU0:
You can check the results with:
DIR TU0:
Jerome Fine
12:05 p.m.
On Jun 11, 2016, at 10:14 AM, Jerome H. Fine
<jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
Wouldn?t this be a TMSCP device and use the MU handler?
If you have RT11 V5.x try the following commands
.sho dev:mu
Device Status CSR Vector(s)
------ ------ --- ????
MU Installed 174500 260
MU0: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 0
.load mu:
.sh dev:mu
Device Status CSR Vector(s)
------ ------ --- ---------
MU 122160 174500 260
MU0: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 0
INIT MU0:
Use MU0: in the examples instead of TU0: Jerome has above.
Jerry
Rod Smallwood wrote:
I have had some success in fixing a couple of TK
tape drives.
They now load and unload every time you press the button.
SFSG now to talk to them from RT.
Using the diagnostics on the format (RX50) disk the Identify function shows the drive and
by inference its controller.
However its calls it MUX. I seem to remember under RT you needed to do a SET or ASSIGN
to link it to the driver.
Anybody know the correct syntax so I can init the tape and start to read and write files
to and from it.
I really don't understand the question.
Whenever I used either the TK50 or the TK70 under RT-11,
the device name was TU0: and no SET or ASSIGN was required
unless the CSR and / or VECTOR needed to be modified - which
never happened since the standard CSR / VECTOR was always OK.
By the way, while the TK50 is mostly reasonable in WRITE mode
and COPY operations, a COMPARE leaves a lot to be desired.
The TK70 solves that problem. If you must COMPARE with the
TK50, COPY the files(s) to a scratch disk first.
To initialize the tape for files:
INIT TU0:
COPY SY:*.SAV TU0:
I suggest you use the NOREWIND option between files if you
are writing more than one file per command. If you don't, you
will quickly realize why that option is preferred.
To initialize the take for a BACKUP:
INIT/BACKUP TU0:
You can check the results with:
DIR TU0:
Jerome Fine
11:01 p.m.
Jerry Weiss wrote:
On Jun 11, 2016, at 10:14 AM, Jerome H. Fine
<jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
Rod
Smallwood wrote:
I have had some success in fixing a couple of TK tape drives.
They now load and unload every time you press the button.
SFSG now to talk to them from RT.
Using the diagnostics on the format (RX50) disk the Identify function shows the drive and
by inference its controller.
However its calls it MUX. I seem to remember under RT you needed to do a SET or ASSIGN to
link it to the driver.
Anybody know the correct syntax so I can init the tape and start to read and write files
to and from it.
12 Jun
12 Jun
6 a.m.
On 12/06/2016 04:01, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Wouldn?t this be a TMSCP device and use the MU handler?
If you have RT11 V5.x try the following commands
.sho dev:mu Device Status CSR Vector(s)
------ ------ --- ????
MU Installed 174500 260
MU0: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 0
.load mu:
.sh dev:mu
Device Status CSR Vector(s)
------ ------ --- ---------
MU 122160 174500 260
MU0: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 0
INIT MU0: Use MU0: in the examples instead of TU0: Jerome has above.
Jerry
Sorry about that - I apologize!! You are correct!!!!
Please substitute MU for TU.
Jerome Fine OK we are moving forward.
Drive is TK70
Interface card is a TQK70 controller
The cart is a TK50 as that's all I have.
The write protect slide is to write protect off.
Cart loads normally and activity light goes to on.
Write protect light is off
I can now get the INIT to start and ask init Y/N.
INIT starts but write protect light comes on
System halts on an I/O error
.sh dev:mu
gives
Device Status CSR Vector(s)
--------- -------- ---
----------
MU 122722 174500 260 254
Nearly there I think. I have loads of TK50 tapes to format.
Rod
Jerry Weiss
wrote:
On Jun 11, 2016, at 10:14 AM, Jerome H. Fine
<jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
> Rod Smallwood wrote:
I have had some success in fixing a couple of TK tape drives.
They now load and unload every time you press the button.
SFSG now to talk to them from RT.
Using the diagnostics on the format (RX50) disk the Identify
function shows the drive and by inference its controller.
However its calls it MUX. I seem to remember under RT you needed
to do a SET or ASSIGN to link it to the driver.
Anybody know the correct syntax so I can init the tape and start
to read and write files to and from it.
I really don't understand the question.
Whenever I used either the TK50 or the TK70 under RT-11,
the device name was TU0: and no SET or ASSIGN was required
unless the CSR and / or VECTOR needed to be modified - which
never happened since the standard CSR / VECTOR was always OK.
By the way, while the TK50 is mostly reasonable in WRITE mode
and COPY operations, a COMPARE leaves a lot to be desired.
The TK70 solves that problem. If you must COMPARE with the
TK50, COPY the files(s) to a scratch disk first.
To initialize the tape for files:
INIT TU0:
COPY SY:*.SAV TU0:
I suggest you use the NOREWIND option between files if you
are writing more than one file per command. If you don't, you
will quickly realize why that option is preferred.
To initialize the take for a BACKUP:
INIT/BACKUP TU0:
You can check the results with:
DIR TU0:
Jerome Fine
6:31 a.m.
On 12/06/2016 11:00, "Rod Smallwood" <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com>
wrote:
OK we are moving forward.
Drive is TK70
Interface card is a TQK70 controller
The cart is a TK50 as that's all I have.
The write protect slide is to write protect off.
Cart loads normally and activity light goes to on.
Write protect light is off
I can now get the INIT to start and ask init Y/N.
INIT starts but write protect light comes on
System halts on an I/O error
.sh dev:mu
gives
Device Status CSR Vector(s)
--------- -------- ---
----------
MU 122722 174500 260 254
Nearly there I think. I have loads of TK50 tapes to format.
I'm pretty sure the TK70 can only read TK50 tapes and not write to them...
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
7:15 a.m.
On 12/06/2016 11:31, Adrian Graham wrote:
On 12/06/2016 11:00, "Rod Smallwood"
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Thanks Graham
Now that sounds highly likely. Does the TK70 controller support the
TK50 drive perchance?
I have a TK 50 controller I can aways put that back in.
Ro
OK we are moving forward.
Drive is TK70
Interface card is a TQK70 controller
The cart is a TK50 as that's all I have.
The write protect slide is to write protect off.
Cart loads normally and activity light goes to on.
Write protect light is off
I can now get the INIT to start and ask init Y/N.
INIT starts but write protect light comes on
System halts on an I/O error
.sh dev:mu
gives
Device Status CSR Vector(s)
--------- -------- ---
----------
MU 122722 174500 260 254
Nearly there I think. I have loads of TK50 tapes to format.
I'm pretty sure
the TK70 can only read TK50 tapes and not write to them...
7:48 a.m.
On 12/06/2016 12:15, "Rod Smallwood" <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com>
wrote:
Thanks Graham
Now that sounds highly likely. Does the TK70 controller support the
TK50 drive perchance?
I have a TK 50 controller I can aways put that back in.
The TQK70 controller supports the TK50 drive, yes. If you're needing to bulk
erase it might be easier/quicker to get hold of a degausser then just init
before writing as necessary.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
Nearly there I think. I have loads of TK50 tapes to
format.
I'm pretty sure the TK70 can only read TK50 tapes and not write to
them...
8:54 a.m.
Adrian Graham wrote:
On 12/06/2016
12:15, "Rod Smallwood" <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Nearly there I think. I have loads of TK50 tapes to
format.
I'm pretty sure the TK70 can only read TK50 tapes and not write to them...
10:38 a.m.
On 12/06/2016 13:54, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
The TQK70 controller supports the TK50 drive, yes. If you're needing
to bulk
erase it might be easier/quicker to get hold of a degausser then just
init
before writing as necessary.
I seem to remember that Adrian is correct and that the TK70
controller does support the TK50 drive. However, my question
would be "WHY?" use the TK50 drive if you have a TK70 drive?
One answer would be if you had tapes already formatted as TK50
and you were only going to write small files.
Since the TK70 drive (with a TK70 controller) is so much better,
the better answer is to use the TK70 drive. However, as Adrian
pointed out, once a tape is formatted as a TK50 tape, the TK70
will NOT be able to write to that tape UNLESS you first bulk
erase the tape. Over a decade ago when I used the TK70 for
a few years as my primary backup drive, I did a bulk erase of
dozens of TK50 tapes and NEVER had a problem. Be VERY
careful with a bulk eraser which is under powered - they tend
to break very quickly if used for more than a few minutes.
Instead, I fortunately found an old voice coil from a speaker
that was powerful enough (about the size of my fist) and was
able to bulk erase TK50 tapes by repeatedly moving the voice
coil in a circular motion in contact with the plastic container of
the TK50 / TK70 tapes first on one side, then the other for
about 30 seconds. At that point, the tape could be INIT by
the TK70 and then both TK70 read and write operations were
possible.
What is VERY helpful is that it is possible to COMPARE
a BACKUP image file using BUP.SAV in RT-11 on a
PDP-11/83 in about the same time as writing the image
file - or about 7 minutes if I remember correctly for a full
32 MB image file of an RT-11 32 MB partition.
A word of caution. KEEP the head cleaner solution handy.
I used wooden Qtips and rarely kept the metal cover on
any more since the tapes shed so much that cleaning is
needed after less than an hour of TK70 usage. The actual
head cleaning is fast, only a minute or two.
If you have any more questions, please ask. Let us know
if you are successful.
How is the RX02 drive coming?
Are you still using the RD53 drive? I haven't heard of anyone
else being successful these days with an RD53 drive that has
not had a lobotomy (sticky bumper pad removed from the
head assembly).
Jerome Fine Hi Jerome
Firstly one important fact that I did not know. If you bulk
erase a TK50 you can turn it into a TK70 tape with an INIT.
Thank you I did not know that.
Secondly I have made a little discovery. We all know the tapes
go sticky and attach themselves to guide rollers etc.
Well its not always the tape. I have three instances of tapes
that would not feed or lace up where I got rid of the problem
without doing anything to the tape at all. In fact all
subsequent tapes have had no problems. It took 30 seconds and
apart from taking the metal cover off the back off the drive I
dismantled nothing.
If I am right and can run a load of tapes through the drive. Then
I'll say what I did. If I'm wrong then nobody will needlessly try my method.
I will say its not cleaning the heads or the EOT sensors. You
should do that any way.
Its clear the way to go is bulk erase TK50 tapes and then to use
the TK70 drive and controller.
Was there ever a UNIBUS TQK70 controller?
RX02 and a RX01 (I have one of each and a spare chassis)
I'll be back to them when this tape situation is sorted.
I had got to the stage where I could get commands through to the
drive electronics
RD53 - Yes out of a bag of scrap drives I managed to get the remains
of a bump stop out and replace it.
It produced one good drive which boots RT-11 every time.
Regards Rod
Adrian Graham
wrote:
On
12/06/2016 12:15, "Rod Smallwood" <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com>
wrote:
>
Nearly there I think. I have loads of TK50 tapes to format.
>
I'm pretty sure the TK70 can only read TK50 tapes and not write to
them...
Thanks Graham
Now that sounds highly likely. Does the TK70 controller support the
TK50 drive perchance?
I have a TK 50 controller I can aways put that back in.
11:19 a.m.
Rod Smallwood wrote:
Firstly one important fact that I did not know.
If you bulk
erase a TK50 you can turn it into a TK70 tape with an INIT.
Thank you I did not know that.
A bulk erase was the first thing that seemed to be the solution
since I had, fortunately, found a blank TK50 tape and was
able to use it to both read and write in a TK70. There was
a long discussion, probably a decade ago, about CompacTape,
supposedly just for the TK50, and CompacTapeII, supposedly
just for the TK70. From a Memorex internet site, probably over
10 years ago and long gone now, there was a table of all of the
physical characteristics of CompacTape. While the tapes for
even higher density drives were different, the physical properties
of CompacTape (I) and CompacTapeII were IDENTICAL!!!!
So that also gave me the confidence to use the CompacTape
media in the TK70 drives - which gave excellent results.
Let us know if you are finally successful with the TK70 drives
and tapes.
Secondly I have made a little discovery. We
all know the tapes
go sticky and attach themselves to guide rollers etc.
Well its not always the tape. I have three instances of tapes
that would not feed or lace up where I got rid of the problem
without doing anything to the tape at all. In fact all
subsequent tapes have had no problems. It took 30 seconds and
apart from taking the metal cover off the back off the drive I
dismantled nothing.
If I am right and can run a load of tapes through the drive.
Then I'll say what I did. If I'm wrong then nobody will needlessly try
my method.
I will say its not cleaning the heads or the EOT sensors. You
should do that any way.
It would be appreciated if you would state what you did in any case.
It is always helpful to know what has been tried and does not produce
a result since it can be ignored in the future.
Its clear the way to go is bulk erase TK50 tapes
and then to use
the TK70 drive and controller.
Was there ever a UNIBUS TQK70 controller?
I never used Unibus, so I never found out. YES!! Bulk
erase is easy and does work well.
RX02 and a RX01 (I have one of each and a spare
chassis)
I'll be back to them when this tape situation is sorted.
I had got to the stage where I could get commands through to the
drive electronics
I have an RX02 around which I have not used in a while. My
preference, if I need the RX02 hardware is to use the DSD 880/30
which has an RX03 drive which can also function as an RX02 and
also reads and writes RX01 media as well. My RX03 drive has
been modified by placing a DPDT switch into the detection circuit
for the single-sided vs double-sided sensors. That way, I can use
any RX02 floppy media as double-sided without having to punch
the extra holes. The DY.MAC device driver from V04.00 of RT-11
contained extra code to support double-sided operation, but that
code was no longer present with the V05.00 of DY.MAC when
it was released in 1983. So I added the code back and that
made the DYX.SYS device driver under RT-11 able to support
double-sided RX03 floppies. However, the boot code is still
a bit stupid and can't boot a monitor file which is partly at the
end of side 1 and continues onto side 2.
RD53 - Yes out of a bag of scrap drives I managed
to get the
remains of a bump stop out and replace it.
It produced one good drive which boots RT-11 every time.
I still have a few RD53 drives around which I stopped using.
I also converted a couple of Micropolis 1325 drives to
RD53 drives by adding jumper R7. I really don't use
my PDP-11/83 very much since Ersatz-11 is really so
much more convenient and my goal for RT-11 is only
software bug fixes and enhancements.
Jerome Fine
1 p.m.
On 12/06/2016 16:19, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Thanks Jerome
Rod
Rod Smallwood
wrote:
Firstly one important fact that I did not
know. If you bulk
erase a TK50 you can turn it into a TK70 tape with an INIT.
Thank you I did not know that.
A bulk erase was the first thing that seemed to be the solution
since I had, fortunately, found a blank TK50 tape and was
able to use it to both read and write in a TK70. There was
a long discussion, probably a decade ago, about CompacTape,
supposedly just for the TK50, and CompacTapeII, supposedly
just for the TK70. From a Memorex internet site, probably over
10 years ago and long gone now, there was a table of all of the
physical characteristics of CompacTape. While the tapes for
even higher density drives were different, the physical properties
of CompacTape (I) and CompacTapeII were IDENTICAL!!!!
So that also gave me the confidence to use the CompacTape
media in the TK70 drives - which gave excellent results.
Let us know if you are finally successful with the TK70 drives
and tapes.
Secondly I have made a little discovery.
We all know the
tapes go sticky and attach themselves to guide rollers etc.
Well its not always the tape. I have three instances of tapes
that would not feed or lace up where I got rid of the problem
without doing anything to the tape at all. In fact all
subsequent tapes have had no problems. It took 30 seconds and
apart from taking the metal cover off the back off the drive I
dismantled nothing.
If I am right and can run a load of tapes through the drive.
Then I'll say what I did. If I'm wrong then nobody will needlessly
try my method.
I will say its not cleaning the heads or the EOT sensors. You
should do that any way.
It would be appreciated if you would state what you did in any case.
It is always helpful to know what has been tried and does not produce
a result since it can be ignored in the future.
Its clear the way to go is bulk erase TK50
tapes and then to
use the TK70 drive and controller.
Was there ever a UNIBUS TQK70 controller?
I never used Unibus, so I never found out. YES!! Bulk
erase is easy and does work well.
RX02 and a RX01 (I have one of each and a
spare chassis)
I'll be back to them when this tape situation is sorted.
I had got to the stage where I could get commands through to the
drive electronics
I have an RX02 around which I have not used in a while. My
preference, if I need the RX02 hardware is to use the DSD 880/30
which has an RX03 drive which can also function as an RX02 and
also reads and writes RX01 media as well. My RX03 drive has
been modified by placing a DPDT switch into the detection circuit
for the single-sided vs double-sided sensors. That way, I can use
any RX02 floppy media as double-sided without having to punch
the extra holes. The DY.MAC device driver from V04.00 of RT-11
contained extra code to support double-sided operation, but that
code was no longer present with the V05.00 of DY.MAC when
it was released in 1983. So I added the code back and that
made the DYX.SYS device driver under RT-11 able to support
double-sided RX03 floppies. However, the boot code is still
a bit stupid and can't boot a monitor file which is partly at the
end of side 1 and continues onto side 2.
RD53 - Yes out of a bag of scrap drives I
managed to get the
remains of a bump stop out and replace it.
It produced one good drive which boots RT-11 every time.
I still have a few RD53 drives around which I stopped using.
I also converted a couple of Micropolis 1325 drives to
RD53 drives by adding jumper R7. I really don't use
my PDP-11/83 very much since Ersatz-11 is really so
much more convenient and my goal for RT-11 is only
software bug fixes and enhancements.
Jerome Fine 
2:18 p.m.
On 6/12/2016 12:00 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
On 12/06/2016 16:19, Jerome H. Fine
wrote:
Thanks Jerome
Rod
Trim on long bottom posts, please.
Especially if there's nothing
interesting added at the bottom.
- J.
Rod
Smallwood wrote:
Firstly one important fact
that I did not know. If you bulk
erase a TK50 you can turn it into a
TK70 tape with an INIT.
Thank you I did not know that.
A bulk erase was the first thing that
seemed to be the solution
since I had, fortunately, found a
blank TK50 tape and was
able to use it to both read and write
in a TK70. There was
a long discussion, probably a decade
ago, about CompacTape,
supposedly just for the TK50, and
CompacTapeII, supposedly
just for the TK70. From a Memorex
internet site, probably over
10 years ago and long gone now, there
was a table of all of the
physical characteristics of
CompacTape. While the tapes for
even higher density drives were
different, the physical properties
of CompacTape (I) and CompacTapeII
were IDENTICAL!!!!
So that also gave me the confidence
to use the CompacTape
media in the TK70 drives - which gave
excellent results.
Let us know if you are finally
successful with the TK70 drives
and tapes.
Secondly I have made a little
discovery. We all know the tapes go
sticky and attach themselves to
guide rollers etc.
Well its not always the tape.
I have three instances of tapes that
would not feed or lace up where I
got rid of the problem
without doing anything to the
tape at all. In fact all subsequent
tapes have had no problems. It
took 30 seconds and
apart from taking the metal
cover off the back off the drive I
dismantled nothing.
If I am right and can run a
load of tapes through the drive.
Then I'll say what I did. If I'm
wrong then nobody will needlessly
try my method.
I will say its not cleaning
the heads or the EOT sensors. You
should do that any way.
It would be appreciated if you would
state what you did in any case.
It is always helpful to know what has
been tried and does not produce
a result since it can be ignored in
the future.
Its clear the way to go is
bulk erase TK50 tapes and then to
use the TK70 drive and controller.
Was there ever a UNIBUS TQK70
controller?
I never used Unibus, so I never found
out. YES!! Bulk
erase is easy and does work well.
RX02 and a RX01 (I have one of
each and a spare chassis)
I'll be back to them when this
tape situation is sorted.
I had got to the stage where I
could get commands through to the
drive electronics
I have an RX02 around which I have
not used in a while. My
preference, if I need the RX02
hardware is to use the DSD 880/30
which has an RX03 drive which can
also function as an RX02 and
also reads and writes RX01 media as
well. My RX03 drive has
been modified by placing a DPDT
switch into the detection circuit
for the single-sided vs double-sided
sensors. That way, I can use
any RX02 floppy media as double-sided
without having to punch
the extra holes. The DY.MAC device
driver from V04.00 of RT-11
contained extra code to support
double-sided operation, but that
code was no longer present with the
V05.00 of DY.MAC when
it was released in 1983. So I added
the code back and that
made the DYX.SYS device driver under
RT-11 able to support
double-sided RX03 floppies. However,
the boot code is still
a bit stupid and can't boot a monitor
file which is partly at the
end of side 1 and continues onto side 2.
RD53 - Yes out of a bag of scrap
drives I managed to get the remains
of a bump stop out and replace it.
It produced one good
drive which boots RT-11 every time.
I still have a few RD53 drives around
which I stopped using.
I also converted a couple of
Micropolis 1325 drives to
RD53 drives by adding jumper R7. I
really don't use
my PDP-11/83 very much since
Ersatz-11 is really so
much more convenient and my goal for
RT-11 is only
software bug fixes and enhancements.
Jerome Fine
3:49 p.m.
On 12/06/2016 19:18, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
On 6/12/2016 12:00 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
..--.. I trimmed it to a one line answer. That's as short as I can go
On 12/06/2016 16:19, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Thanks Jerome
Rod
Trim on long bottom posts, please. Especially if there's nothing
interesting added at the bottom.
- J.
Rod
Smallwood wrote:
Firstly one important fact that I did not
know. If you bulk
erase a TK50 you can turn it into a TK70 tape with an INIT.
Thank you I did not know that.
A bulk erase was the first thing that seemed to be the solution
since I had, fortunately, found a blank TK50 tape and was
able to use it to both read and write in a TK70. There was
a long discussion, probably a decade ago, about CompacTape,
supposedly just for the TK50, and CompacTapeII, supposedly
just for the TK70. From a Memorex internet site, probably over
10 years ago and long gone now, there was a table of all of the
physical characteristics of CompacTape. While the tapes for
even higher density drives were different, the physical properties
of CompacTape (I) and CompacTapeII were IDENTICAL!!!!
So that also gave me the confidence to use the CompacTape
media in the TK70 drives - which gave excellent results.
Let us know if you are finally successful with the TK70 drives
and tapes.
Secondly I have made a little discovery.
We all know the
tapes go sticky and attach themselves to guide rollers etc.
Well its not always the tape. I have three instances of
tapes that would not feed or lace up where I got rid of the problem
without doing anything to the tape at all. In fact all
subsequent tapes have had no problems. It took 30 seconds and
apart from taking the metal cover off the back off the drive
I dismantled nothing.
If I am right and can run a load of tapes through the drive.
Then I'll say what I did. If I'm wrong then nobody will needlessly
try my method.
I will say its not cleaning the heads or the EOT sensors. You
should do that any way.
It would be appreciated if you would state what you did in any case.
It is always helpful to know what has been tried and does not produce
a result since it can be ignored in the future.
Its clear the way to go is bulk erase TK50
tapes and then to
use the TK70 drive and controller.
Was there ever a UNIBUS TQK70 controller?
I never used Unibus, so I never found out. YES!! Bulk
erase is easy and does work well.
RX02 and a RX01 (I have one of each and a
spare chassis)
I'll be back to them when this tape situation is sorted.
I had got to the stage where I could get commands through to
the drive electronics
I have an RX02 around which I have not used in a while. My
preference, if I need the RX02 hardware is to use the DSD 880/30
which has an RX03 drive which can also function as an RX02 and
also reads and writes RX01 media as well. My RX03 drive has
been modified by placing a DPDT switch into the detection circuit
for the single-sided vs double-sided sensors. That way, I can use
any RX02 floppy media as double-sided without having to punch
the extra holes. The DY.MAC device driver from V04.00 of RT-11
contained extra code to support double-sided operation, but that
code was no longer present with the V05.00 of DY.MAC when
it was released in 1983. So I added the code back and that
made the DYX.SYS device driver under RT-11 able to support
double-sided RX03 floppies. However, the boot code is still
a bit stupid and can't boot a monitor file which is partly at the
end of side 1 and continues onto side 2.
RD53 - Yes out of a bag of scrap drives I
managed to get the
remains of a bump stop out and replace it.
It produced one good drive which boots RT-11 every
time.
I still have a few RD53 drives around which I stopped using.
I also converted a couple of Micropolis 1325 drives to
RD53 drives by adding jumper R7. I really don't use
my PDP-11/83 very much since Ersatz-11 is really so
much more convenient and my goal for RT-11 is only
software bug fixes and enhancements.
Jerome Fine
4:41 p.m.
On 6/12/2016 2:49 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
On 12/06/2016 19:18, js at cimmeri.com
wrote:
I was referring to most of the repeated
material above your one line answer.
- J.
On 6/12/2016 12:00 PM, Rod Smallwood
wrote:
..--.. I trimmed it to a one line
answer. That's as short as I can go
On 12/06/2016 16:19, Jerome H. Fine
wrote:
Trim on long bottom posts, please.
Especially if there's nothing
interesting added at the bottom.
- J.
I still have a few RD53 drives
around which I stopped using.
I also converted a couple of
Micropolis 1325 drives to
RD53 drives by adding jumper R7. I
really don't use
my PDP-11/83 very much since
Ersatz-11 is really so
much more convenient and my goal
for RT-11 is only
software bug fixes and enhancements.
Jerome Fine
Thanks Jerome
Rod 
9:33 p.m.
On Jun 12, 2016, at 7:38 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Well its not always the tape. I have three
instances of tapes that would not feed or lace up where I got rid of the problem without
doing anything to the tape at all. In fact all subsequent tapes have had no problems. It
took 30 seconds and apart from taking the metal cover off the back off the drive I
dismantled nothing.
If I am right and can run a load of tapes through the drive. Then I'll say what
I did. If I'm wrong then nobody will needlessly try my method.
I will say its not cleaning the heads or the EOT sensors. You should do that any
way.
The metal tape path rollers are used as tachometers to make sure the tape is feeding at
the correct speed. If the tape drags over them, the firmware will consider the transport
jammed and abort. A drop or two of light machine oil over the axle has been enough to get
the rollers moving again on my TK50s where this failure mode has occurred.
There are multiple failure domains involved. Lubricating the feed roller spindles
doesn't solve the sticky tape problem.
ok
bear.
--
until further notice
13 Jun
13 Jun
3:04 a.m.
On 13/06/2016 02:33, r.stricklin wrote:
On Jun 12, 2016, at 7:38 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
We have a winner !!! yes that's what I did.
I had a small bottle of oil that came with my electric razor (Braun
pronounced Brown not Brawn)
It even had a fine nozzle. This is what you do.
Press each roller down (They are sprung) if they do not spring back up
quickly.
then press down again to reveal the top of the shaft.
One tiny drop only where the roller meets the shaft
Do not spin or press the rollers.
Of course it doesn't fix the sticky tape problem.
But it will stop good tapes going in the trash.
I have also been trying bulk erasing tapes and had partial success.
I used a six inch magnet that holds my mobile antenna onto the car.
On INIT it no longer says write protect but it still falls over after
about a minute.
Rod
Well its not always the tape. I have three
instances of tapes that would not feed or lace up where I got rid of the problem without
doing anything to the tape at all. In fact all subsequent tapes have had no problems. It
took 30 seconds and apart from taking the metal cover off the back off the drive I
dismantled nothing.
If I am right and can run a load of tapes through the drive. Then I'll say what
I did. If I'm wrong then nobody will needlessly try my method. I will say its not
cleaning the heads or the EOT sensors. You should do that any way.
The metal tape
path rollers are used as tachometers to make sure the tape is feeding at the correct
speed. If the tape drags over them, the firmware will consider the transport jammed and
abort. A drop or two of light machine oil over the axle has been enough to get the rollers
moving again on my TK50s where this failure mode has occurred.
There are multiple failure domains involved. Lubricating the feed roller spindles
doesn't solve the sticky tape problem.
ok
bear.
10:33 a.m.
Rod Smallwood wrote:
On 13/06/2016
02:33, r.stricklin wrote:
The metal tape path rollers are used as
tachometers to make sure the
tape is feeding at the correct speed. If the tape drags over them,
the firmware will consider the transport jammed and abort. A drop or
two of light machine oil over the axle has been enough to get the
rollers moving again on my TK50s where this failure mode has occurred.
There are multiple failure domains involved. Lubricating the feed
roller spindles doesn't solve the sticky tape problem.
ok
bear.
We have a winner !!! yes that's what I did.
I had a small bottle of oil that came with my electric razor (Braun
pronounced Brown not Brawn)
It even had a fine nozzle. This is what you do.
Press each roller down (They are sprung) if they do not spring back up
quickly.
then press down again to reveal the top of the shaft.
One tiny drop only where the roller meets the shaft
Do not spin or press the rollers.
Of course it doesn't fix the sticky tape problem.
But it will stop good tapes going in the trash. I have also been trying bulk erasing tapes and had
partial success.
I used a six inch magnet that holds my mobile antenna onto the car.
On INIT it no longer says write protect but it still falls over after
about a minute
I am holding in my hand a cylinder that is about 2 1/2" long
and about 2 3/4" in diameter. It probably weighs about
5 lb.. and if I remember correctly it was the voice coil
from an old speaker that was so badly damaged it no
longer worked. So a permanent magnet needs to be
fairly strong. I suggest that you might try to move your
magnet in a circular motion of about 4" in diameter while
toughing both large sides of the TK70 plastic container.
If you achieve partial success with a minute or two, then
maybe 5 minutes or even 20 minutes might be fully
successful although I would agree that 20 minutes for
every tape is too long. But it would at least prove that
the method works in principle.
Jerome Fine
12:20 p.m.
On 13/06/2016 15:33, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Thank you BOTH for that information. My experience
with TK70 media did not have that happen often enough
that I realized there was a problem. But I will try to
remember to check the rollers next time.
Thank you for your input I'll give it a bit longer.
R
Rod Smallwood
wrote:
On
13/06/2016 02:33, r.stricklin wrote:
The metal tape path rollers are used as
tachometers to make sure the
tape is feeding at the correct speed. If the tape drags over them,
the firmware will consider the transport jammed and abort. A drop or
two of light machine oil over the axle has been enough to get the
rollers moving again on my TK50s where this failure mode has occurred.
There are multiple failure domains involved. Lubricating the feed
roller spindles doesn't solve the sticky tape problem.
ok
bear.
We have a winner !!! yes that's what I did.
I had a small bottle of oil that came with my electric razor (Braun
pronounced Brown not Brawn)
It even had a fine nozzle. This is what you do.
Press each roller down (They are sprung) if they do not spring back
up quickly.
then press down again to reveal the top of the shaft.
One tiny drop only where the roller meets the shaft
Do not spin or press the rollers.
Of course it doesn't fix the sticky tape problem.
But it will stop good tapes going in the trash. I have also been trying bulk erasing tapes and
had partial success.
I used a six inch magnet that holds my mobile antenna onto the car.
On INIT it no longer says write protect but it still falls over after
about a minute
I am holding in my hand a cylinder that is about 2 1/2" long
and about 2 3/4" in diameter. It probably weighs about
5 lb.. and if I remember correctly it was the voice coil
from an old speaker that was so badly damaged it no
longer worked. So a permanent magnet needs to be
fairly strong. I suggest that you might try to move your
magnet in a circular motion of about 4" in diameter while
toughing both large sides of the TK70 plastic container.
If you achieve partial success with a minute or two, then
maybe 5 minutes or even 20 minutes might be fully
successful although I would agree that 20 minutes for
every tape is too long. But it would at least prove that
the method works in principle.
Jerome Fine
1:55 p.m.
On 13/06/2016 17:20, Rod Smallwood wrote:
On 13/06/2016 15:33, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Thank you BOTH for that information. My experience
with TK70 media did not have that happen often enough
that I realized there was a problem. But I will try to
remember to check the rollers next time.
Thank you for your input I'll give it a bit longer.
R
I just had a thought is the magnet in a microwave cooker magnetron
permanent or electro?
Back in 1960's the guy who I worked for had been in radar during the war.
We had several magnetrons about the place. They had a very strong
permanent magnet.
He always said when the Germans recovered a magnetron from a crashed
bomber they soon worked out how it oscillated at 10Ghz but making the
magnet was beyond them.
Rod
Rod
Smallwood wrote:
On
13/06/2016 02:33, r.stricklin wrote:
The metal tape path rollers are used as
tachometers to make sure
the tape is feeding at the correct speed. If the tape drags over
them, the firmware will consider the transport jammed and abort. A
drop or two of light machine oil over the axle has been enough to
get the rollers moving again on my TK50s where this failure mode
has occurred.
There are multiple failure domains involved. Lubricating the feed
roller spindles doesn't solve the sticky tape problem.
ok
bear.
We have a winner !!! yes that's what I did.
I had a small bottle of oil that came with my electric razor (Braun
pronounced Brown not Brawn)
It even had a fine nozzle. This is what you do.
Press each roller down (They are sprung) if they do not spring back
up quickly.
then press down again to reveal the top of the shaft.
One tiny drop only where the roller meets the shaft
Do not spin or press the rollers.
Of course it doesn't fix the sticky tape problem.
But it will stop good tapes going in the trash. I have also been trying bulk erasing tapes and
had partial success.
I used a six inch magnet that holds my mobile antenna onto the car.
On INIT it no longer says write protect but it still falls over
after about a minute
I am holding in my hand a cylinder that is about 2 1/2" long
and about 2 3/4" in diameter. It probably weighs about
5 lb.. and if I remember correctly it was the voice coil
from an old speaker that was so badly damaged it no
longer worked. So a permanent magnet needs to be
fairly strong. I suggest that you might try to move your
magnet in a circular motion of about 4" in diameter while
toughing both large sides of the TK70 plastic container.
If you achieve partial success with a minute or two, then
maybe 5 minutes or even 20 minutes might be fully
successful although I would agree that 20 minutes for
every tape is too long. But it would at least prove that
the method works in principle.
Jerome Fine
2:40 p.m.
On Jun 13, 2016, at 12:55 PM, Rod Smallwood
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
On 13/06/2016 17:20, Rod Smallwood wrote:
>
>
> I just had a thought is the magnet in a microwave cooker magnetron permanent or
electro?
Back in 1960's the guy who I worked for had been
in radar during the war.
We had several magnetrons about the place. They had a very strong permanent magnet.
He always said when the Germans recovered a magnetron from a crashed bomber they soon
worked out how it oscillated at 10Ghz but making the magnet was beyond them.
Rod
I suspect the working area in a magnetron is too small for this purpose, unless you break
it up.
A rare earth magnet savaged from a disk drive or a banned child toy (aka BuckyBalls) might
be more effective.
Jerry
14 Jun
14 Jun
7:19 a.m.
On 14/06/2016 4:40 AM, Jerry Weiss wrote:
When I worked on this gear, we kept a magnet assy from a CDC 9762 80mb
drive under the bench in a safe place, and used it to bulk-erase any
tapes as needed. The magnets from a RA81 failed cartridge are very small
and powerful, will do nicely. I keep a few in my workshop for gen duty
screw pickup, etc.
Lionel.
On Jun 13,
2016, at 12:55 PM, Rod Smallwood <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
On 13/06/2016 17:20, Rod Smallwood wrote:
>
> I just had a thought is the magnet in a microwave cooker magnetron permanent or
electro?
A rare earth magnet savaged from a disk drive or a banned child toy (aka BuckyBalls)
might be more effective.
Jerry
11:12 a.m.
On 14/06/2016 12:19, Lionel Johnson wrote:
On 14/06/2016 4:40 AM, Jerry Weiss wrote:
When I worked on this gear, we kept a magnet assy from a CDC 9762 80mb
drive under the bench in a safe place, and used it to bulk-erase any
tapes as needed. The magnets from a RA81 failed cartridge are very
small and powerful, will do nicely. I keep a few in my workshop for
gen duty screw pickup, etc.
Lionel.
I though I'd pursue the mag mount route
flipping the mount over shows a center puck like magnet made from a
metal and about an inch and quarter across.
Then there's a gap of a quarter of an inch and then an annular
ferrite ring about six inches across.
The central magnet seems the stronger of the two and a compact tape
cassette will stick to it.
So I'll rotate the cartridge through the magnetic field and see if that
erases it.
R
Anybody know what this is about?
MSCPCK-I-MU0-FW Rev level is 003/HW Rev level is 000
On Jun
13, 2016, at 12:55 PM, Rod Smallwood
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
On 13/06/2016 17:20, Rod Smallwood wrote:
>
> I just had a thought is the magnet in a microwave cooker magnetron
> permanent or electro?
A rare earth magnet savaged from a disk drive or a banned child toy
(aka BuckyBalls) might be more effective.
Jerry
12:20 p.m.
On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:12 AM, Rod Smallwood
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
?..
Anybody know what this is about?
MSCPCK-I-MU0-FW Rev level is 003/HW Rev level is 000
From the RT11 System Message Manual
-------------
?MSCPCK?I?MUn-FW Rev Level is nnn/HW Rev Level is nnn
Explanation: A command to run the TMSCP (Tape Mass Storage Communication Protocol)
Controller Checking Program (MSCPCK.SAV) in your startup command file checks your TMSCP
(MU) device controller (if present) and reports its revision level with this message. The
n is the MU unit number and the nnn is a 3-digit firmware or hardware revision level.
Reliable TK50 operation on Q-bus processors requires a controller of at least firmware
revision 4 and hardware revision 6.
User Action: If your configuration does not include a TMSCP device, you can disable the
command to run MSCPCK in your startup command file by editing that file and placing an
exclamation point (!) before the command (!R MSCPCK).
If the revision level is below firmware revision 4 and hardware revision 6, contact your
local Digital field service representative to get a revised TMSCP controller.
??????
12 Jun
12 Jun
11:24 a.m.
On 2016-06-12 06:54, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
I seem to remember that Adrian is correct and that the
TK70
controller does support the TK50 drive. However, my question
would be "WHY?" use the TK50 drive if you have a TK70 drive?
It is easier to exchange TK50 tapes than TK70?
TK50 is plenty of space for RT11?
;-)
Anyway, the TQK70 & TK50 combination I used a lot,
as the larger buffers on the TQK70 keep the tape streaming ...
Cheers
3032
days inactive
3035
days old
24 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
bear＠typewritten.org -
emu＠e-bbes.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
js＠cimmeri.com -
jsw＠ieee.org -
lionelj＠labyrinth.net.au -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk