25 Sep
2014
25 Sep
'14
8:12 a.m.
From: Jay West
Ensure that if you ever no longer wish to keep the
machine that it
winds up in the hands of another collector
This all seems eminently reasonable, but I had one question/clarification,
about the above: what about museums?
In other collecting fields I am aware of (Asian art, old racing cars, steam
locomotives) there are a range of opinions about giving things to museums. (I
personally don't have any strong feelings / axes to grind either way on these
issues, merely raise them as I know there is debate on them in other field.)
One issue with museums is that a lot of their holdings are stored out of
sight, never to be seen by the ordinary public, and in that case, they might
as well be with a collector who can enjoy them, and show them.
The other issue (only with the cars and locos) is that some museums have a
strict 'conserve it exactly as it was' policy, and since these things were
intended to be _used_, an old race car/loco that's been 'stuffed and mounted
on a plinth' (as the phrase goes in loco preservation) is akin to a zoo full
of stuffed and mounted animals.
Yes, using them can cause them to wear out (although there are rare counter-
examples - John Harrison's sea-going clocks H1 through H3 are allowed to run,
as their bearings, etc are thought to have indefinite life-times - which is
not the case with H4, his first chronometer, which is displayed stopped), and
also, to get one running may require replacement of some parts (although one
can always save the old parts, for historical purposes).
Like I said, I can see both sides - just wondered what the feeling was about
this.
Noel
25 Sep
25 Sep
9:02 a.m.
Noel wrote...
This all seems eminently reasonable, but I had one question/clarification,
about the above: what about museums?
You do what you wish. Once the deal is handed over to you it's your baby. My
only concern is that it not wind up scrapped or in a landfill. For my own
personal preference, I'd say get it to a collector rather than a museum, but
if you can't find a collector - museum is far better than landfill.
J
3:27 p.m.
I had written...
if you can't find a collector - museum is far
better than landfill.
To which AEK responded...
Thanks. That make a crappy day even more special.
Sorry if that came across poorly. Let me be a little more specific. If it is
a common system that I know many people have, I'd rather it get into a
collectors hands than anywhere else. But, you can be quite sure that if any
opportunities came across to me that were for something rare/unique and
likely to be of interest to a museum, you can be sure I'd contact you first
before posting it to the list. Give me some credit :)
2:53 p.m.
From: Jay West
Ensure that if you ever no longer wish to keep
the machine that it
winds up in the hands of another collector
This all seems eminently reasonable, but I had one question/clarification,
about the above: what about museums?
In other collecting fields I am aware of (Asian art, old racing cars, steam
locomotives) there are a range of opinions about giving things to museums. (I
personally don't have any strong feelings / axes to grind either way on these
issues, merely raise them as I know there is debate on them in other field.)
One issue with museums is that a lot of their holdings are stored out of
sight, never to be seen by the ordinary public, and in that case, they might
as well be with a collector who can enjoy them, and show them.
The other issue (only with the cars and locos) is that some museums have a
strict 'conserve it exactly as it was' policy, and since these things were
intended to be _used_, an old race car/loco that's been 'stuffed and mounted
on a plinth' (as the phrase goes in loco preservation) is akin to a zoo full
of stuffed and mounted animals.
What is worse to me is that many museums seem to regard all exhibits as
being pieces of fine art and conserve them accordingly. One 'horror
picture' I saw (relating to a major London musuem) showed some of the
workers handling parts of a prototype electornic device wearing
disposable rubber gloves. Yes, fingerprint oils and sweat do damage
objects. But ESD is a much worse problem for MOS ICs (which I happen to
knwo this deviec was full of). And yet they did nothign about that (no
wrist straps, etc0. In fact the gloves probably made it worse.
Mind you, I was in siad museum a few weeks ago. I happeneed to see one of
the memebers of staf refittign the covers on a one-of-a-kind device afte
cleaning them. The convers were fixed with slot-head screws and some
quater-turn catches. The former h fitted with a swiss army knife, the
screwdriver blade of which was not the rifght size and was burring the
heads. The latter should have been locked with a square-section key (I do
not know if straight or tapered). Instead he jammed a blade of the swiss
army knife diagonally across the sqare hole and used that to turn it.
And this was on a device of which only one wa ever made. I take more care
on relatively common devices.
Yes, using them can cause them to wear out (although there are rare counter-
examples - John Harrison's sea-going clocks H1 through H3 are allowed to run,
as their bearings, etc are thought to have indefinite life-times - which is
not the case with H4, his first chronometer, which is displayed stopped), and
also, to get one running may require replacement of some parts (although one
can always save the old parts, for historical purposes).
I find that last part particularly silly for mas-produced machines which
have been used and which were obtaiend by the museum ofter they were
taken out of service, Machines (be they computers or vehicles) which ahve
been in sue will ahve had parts replaced. To insist that no more parts
arerplaced after the museum gets the artefact -- to freeze it at that
moment in time -- seems to have no real justification.
It saddnes me to see wodnerful pieces of machinery (be they clocks,
computers, steam engiens, etc) that never run. THey were meant to be used.
Like I said, I can see both sides - just wondered what the feeling was about
this.
I've nbeen flamed for it before, I wil lbe flamed again. But I will never
let any part of my colelction go to a museum.
-tony
3:45 p.m.
On Sep 25, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That tells me they are not in fact conserving it as if they were pieces of fine art.
Instead, what you describe is an establishment that is, plain and simple, incompetent ?
unfit to pretend to be a museum at all. Or at least, they hire people who are utterly
unqualified for the job and who should make fish & chips instead.
Job #1 of conservatorship is to understand what is required to conserve the thing you?re
told to conserve. If you don?t know that conserving electronic devices requires ESD
safety practices, you?re too stupid to work there, it?s that simple.
...
What is worse to me is that many museums seem to regard all exhibits as
being pieces of fine art and conserve them accordingly. One 'horror
picture' I saw (relating to a major London musuem) showed some of the
workers handling parts of a prototype electornic device wearing
disposable rubber gloves. Yes, fingerprint oils and sweat do damage
objects. But ESD is a much worse problem for MOS ICs (which I happen to
knwo this deviec was full of). And yet they did nothign about that (no
wrist straps, etc0. In fact the gloves probably made it worse.
Mind you, I was in siad museum a few weeks ago. I happeneed to see one of
the memebers of staf refittign the covers on a one-of-a-kind device afte
cleaning them. The convers were fixed with slot-head screws and some
quater-turn catches. The former h fitted with a swiss army knife, the
screwdriver blade of which was not the rifght size and was burring the
heads. The latter should have been locked with a square-section key (I do
not know if straight or tapered). Instead he jammed a blade of the swiss
army knife diagonally across the sqare hole and used that to turn it.
The same point I made above applies here, only more so. This is no different from someone
?restoring? a painting with a paint roller. (That apparently did happen, at a major
museum in Holland, 20 or so years ago. Big scandal. The museum claimed to have done
nothing wrong.) Again, if someone thinks ?conserving? something means damaging it by the
use of wrong tools, that person doesn?t have enough functioning brain cells to sweep the
floors in that place.
Especially when the tools in question are readily available for very small sums of money ?
it?s not as if you had to get them custom made. (And of course, if you work on museum
pieces, you DO have to be prepared to get tools custom made if necessary!)
paul
5:51 p.m.
IIRC the painting was restored by an American citizen, who was a so called restoration
expert..
The museum was pressed not to make a point of it. The painting Who's afraid of red and
blue was restored by Goldreyer, who was presented by the widow of Newman to restore the
painting. The museum was afraid for the financial claims when they made the documents
about the restoration public.
-Rik
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: "Paul Koning" <paulkoning at comcast.net>
Verzonden: ?25-?9-?2014 22:41
Aan: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Onderwerp: Re: FYI - terms of "equipment available" emails
On Sep 25, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That tells me they are not in fact conserving it as if they were pieces of fine art.
Instead, what you describe is an establishment that is, plain and simple, incompetent ?
unfit to pretend to be a museum at all. Or at least, they hire people who are utterly
unqualified for the job and who should make fish & chips instead.
Job #1 of conservatorship is to understand what is required to conserve the thing you?re
told to conserve. If you don?t know that conserving electronic devices requires ESD
safety practices, you?re too stupid to work there, it?s that simple.
...
What is worse to me is that many museums seem to regard all exhibits as
being pieces of fine art and conserve them accordingly. One 'horror
picture' I saw (relating to a major London musuem) showed some of the
workers handling parts of a prototype electornic device wearing
disposable rubber gloves. Yes, fingerprint oils and sweat do damage
objects. But ESD is a much worse problem for MOS ICs (which I happen to
knwo this deviec was full of). And yet they did nothign about that (no
wrist straps, etc0. In fact the gloves probably made it worse.
Mind you, I was in siad museum a few weeks ago. I happeneed to see one of
the memebers of staf refittign the covers on a one-of-a-kind device afte
cleaning them. The convers were fixed with slot-head screws and some
quater-turn catches. The former h fitted with a swiss army knife, the
screwdriver blade of which was not the rifght size and was burring the
heads. The latter should have been locked with a square-section key (I do
not know if straight or tapered). Instead he jammed a blade of the swiss
army knife diagonally across the sqare hole and used that to turn it.
The same point I made above applies here, only more so. This is no different from someone
?restoring? a painting with a paint roller. (That apparently did happen, at a major
museum in Holland, 20 or so years ago. Big scandal. The museum claimed to have done
nothing wrong.) Again, if someone thinks ?conserving? something means damaging it by the
use of wrong tools, that person doesn?t have enough functioning brain cells to sweep the
floors in that place.
Especially when the tools in question are readily available for very small sums of money ?
it?s not as if you had to get them custom made. (And of course, if you work on museum
pieces, you DO have to be prepared to get tools custom made if necessary!)
paul
26 Sep
26 Sep
3:49 p.m.
What is worse to me is that many museums seem to regard all exhibits as
being pieces of fine art and conserve them accordingly. One 'horror
picture' I saw (relating to a major London musuem) showed some of the
workers handling parts of a prototype electornic device wearing
disposable rubber gloves. Yes, fingerprint oils and sweat do damage
objects. But ESD is a much worse problem for MOS ICs (which I happen to
knwo this deviec was full of). And yet they did nothign about that (no
wrist straps, etc0. In fact the gloves probably made it worse.
That tells me they are not in fact conserving it as if they were
pieces of fine art. Instead, what you describe is an establishment that is, plain and simple, incompetent ? unfit to pretend
to be a museum at
all. Or at least, they hire people who are utterly unqualified for the
job and who should make fish & chips instead.
I am wondering why you want to cvause an outbreak of food poisoning here :-)
Job #1 of conservatorship is to understand what is required to
conserve the thing you?re told to conserve. If you don?t know that
conserving electronic devices requires ESD safety practices, you?re too
stupid to work there, it?s that simple.
I am not sure they _did_ know that :-(Certainly the descriptions o nthe
exhibits do not demonstate much techncial knowledge.
Mind you, I was in siad museum a few weeks ago. I happeneed to see one of
the memebers of staf refittign the covers on a one-of-a-kind device afte
cleaning them. The convers were fixed with slot-head screws and some
quater-turn catches. The former h fitted with a swiss army knife, the
screwdriver blade of which was not the rifght size and was burring the
heads. The latter should have been locked with a square-section key (I do
not know if straight or tapered). Instead he jammed a blade of the swiss
army knife diagonally across the sqare hole and used that to turn it.
The same point I made above applies here, only more so. This is no
different from someone ?restoring? a painting with a paint roller.
(That apparently did happen, at a major museum in Holland, 20 or so years ago. Big scandal. The museum claimed to have
done nothing
wrong.) Again, if someone thinks ?conserving? something means damaging
it by the use of wrong tools, that person doesn?t have enough
functioning brain cells to sweep the floors in that place.
FWIW, I feel the 'swiss army knife' and 'Leatherman' type tools are very
sueful in an emergency. But the screwdriver pladeas are no way a complete
range of sizesm and they are not as comfortable to use and a normal
screwdervier (read : if you don't feel comforatable holdign the tool you
are more likely to let it slip out of the screw slot).
i would expect somebody working in a museum to have the right size
screwdriver for such work (specially ground if necessary).
Especially when the tools in question are readily available for very
small sums of money ? it?s not as if you had to get them custom made.
(And of course, if you work on museum pieces, you DO have to be prepared
to get tools custom made if necessary!)
I have no idea id the square key tool is easy to get, I do know that any
machinist could make one in a few minutes on a millign machine. And
that's what I would do. This si not exactly complicated...
Said musuem, apparently, once had an excellent mechcnail workshop for
making demonstation models nad repairing exhibits. I ahve no diea if it
sill exists, my guess is that it doesn't.
-tony
9:02 p.m.
On Sep 26, 2014, at 3:49 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
My original statement could be misinterpretted. I did not mean to say
that conserving fien art is trivial, or not important, or anyhting like
that.
My point is hat the whole purpose of a piec of fine art is to give
pleasure by its visual appearance. And thus its appearance is very
important. That is wha tneeds ot be preserved. But a computer (or a
clock, or a steam locomotive, or...) real purpose is to operate. Yes,
many a beautiful to look at too. So while protectign tha appearanec of
such artefacts is important, IMHO it come second to preserving them in an
operational state. Which means to me that anti-static precautions are
more important t han preventign fingerprints on the PCBs.
Indeed. Though the barbarian practices you describe later also violate elementary ?don?t
make it ugly? principles.
True. :-)
I?m not surprised. But that?s precisely the point. If you don?t know what X is, you?re
not qualified to run an X museum.
OUch!.
Regular hardware store screwdrivers, and those found on swiss army knives, are rotten
tools because they are wedges. Proper screwdrivers are found in clockmaker/watchmaker and
gunsmith supply shops. I have such a set that I use whenever I can, because it can?t slip
out of the slot. There?s a nice set available from Brownell?s in the USA, about 6 width
at 4 thickness choices each.
Indeed, and square key tools are readily available, at least if they are the Robinson
pattern. I once picked up a ?security bits? tool set, 100 bits for $10 or so. Not strong
at all but good enough for occasional use, and it included oddball stuff like triwing
(like Phillips but 3-fold symmetry instead of 4-fold). If you run into Bristol spline (in
1950s electronics like the Collins 51-J) it gets a little harder, but those too are still
available at modest prices. And as you point out, any tool you could possibly want is
easy to make with a bit of machining.
paul
What is worse to me is that many museums seem to regard all exhibits as
being pieces of fine art and conserve them accordingly. One 'horror
picture' I saw (relating to a major London musuem) showed some of the
workers handling parts of a prototype electornic device wearing
disposable rubber gloves. Yes, fingerprint oils and sweat do damage
objects. But ESD is a much worse problem for MOS ICs (which I happen to
knwo this deviec was full of). And yet they did nothign about that (no
wrist straps, etc0. In fact the gloves probably made it worse.
That tells me they are not in fact conserving it as if they were
pieces of fine art. Instead, what you describe is an establishment that is, plain and simple, incompetent ? unfit to
pretend to be a museum at
all. Or at least, they hire people who are utterly unqualified for the
job and who should make fish & chips instead.
I am wondering why you want to cvause an outbreak of food poisoning here :-)
Job #1 of conservatorship is to understand what is required to
conserve the thing you?re told to conserve. If you don?t know that
conserving electronic devices requires ESD safety practices, you?re too
stupid to work there, it?s that simple.
I am not sure they _did_ know that :-(Certainly the descriptions o nthe
exhibits do not demonstate much techncial knowledge.
Mind you, I was in siad museum a few weeks ago. I happeneed to see one of
the memebers of staf refittign the covers on a one-of-a-kind device afte
cleaning them. The convers were fixed with slot-head screws and some
quater-turn catches. The former h fitted with a swiss army knife, the
screwdriver blade of which was not the rifght size and was burring the
heads. The latter should have been locked with a square-section key (I do
not know if straight or tapered). Instead he jammed a blade of the swiss
army knife diagonally across the sqare hole and used that to turn it.
The same point I made above applies here, only more so. This is no
different from someone ?restoring? a painting with a paint roller.
(That apparently did happen, at a major museum in Holland, 20 or so years ago. Big scandal. The museum claimed to
have done nothing
wrong.) Again, if someone thinks ?conserving? something means damaging
it by the use of wrong tools, that person doesn?t have enough
functioning brain cells to sweep the floors in that place.
FWIW, I feel the 'swiss army knife' and 'Leatherman' type tools are very
sueful in an emergency. But the screwdriver pladeas are no way a complete
range of sizesm and they are not as comfortable to use and a normal
screwdervier (read : if you don't feel comforatable holdign the tool you
are more likely to let it slip out of the screw slot).
i would expect somebody working in a museum to have the right size
screwdriver for such work (specially ground if necessary).
Especially when the tools in question are readily available for very
small sums of money ? it?s not as if you had to get them custom made.
(And of course, if you work on museum pieces, you DO have to be prepared
to get tools custom made if necessary!)
I have no idea id the square key tool is easy to get, I do know that any
machinist could make one in a few minutes on a millign machine. And
that's what I would do. This si not exactly complicated?
27 Sep
27 Sep
4:54 p.m.
i would expect somebody working in a museum to have the right size
screwdriver for such work (specially ground if necessary).
Regular hardware store screwdrivers, and those found on swiss army
knives, are rotten tools because they are wedges. Proper screwdrivers are found in clockmaker/watchmaker and gunsmith supply
shops. I have
such a set that I use whenever I can, because it can?t slip out of the
slot. There?s a nice set available from Brownell?s in the USA, about 6
width at 4 thickness choices each.
THat sounds useufl. I'll bet it has a price to match, though (not that i
object ot paying money for good tools)
Especially when the tools in question are readily available for very
small sums of money ? it?s not as if you had to get them custom made.
(And of course, if you work on museum pieces, you DO have to be prepared
to get tools custom made if necessary!)
I have no idea id the square key tool is easy to get, I do know that any
machinist could make one in a few minutes on a millign machine. And
that's what I would do. This si not exactly complicated? 100 bits for $10 or so. Not strong at all but good
enough for
occasional use, and it included oddball stuff like triwing (like
Phillips but 3-fold symmetry instead of 4-fold). If you run into
There's also Torq (not Torx) which is like phillips but with the 'wings'
offset to as to bcontinuations of the sides of a cetral square. And
several others, of course.
I have a reasonable set of such bits made by Wera. The nice reather
(apart form the fact that they are good steel) ias that the bit shank is
quite long and a sutiabel diameter for the tip. So they will work on
screw down the bottom of deepish holes. THis set only cotnains one flat
screwdrifer, but the sides fof the tip are paralell, not a wedge. I wish
I could get more sizes of thsoe, perhaps I can if I look around..
Bristol spline (in 1950s electronics like the Collins
51-J) it gets a
little harder, but those too are still available at modest prices. And
Bristol spline also turn up in classic computers. I've come across them
in the Friden flaxowriter and in the monitor section of the IBM 5155
(portablePC). Thsoe tools are very hard to find in the UK. I've yet to
find a tool shop (as opposed to a wrb site, etc) that's even heard of them.
And yes, I don't use the wrong tool here either. Allen hex != Bristol
Spline != Torx. The butchers an use 3/32" allen kesy on classic macs.
I'll use the right tool.
as you point out, any tool you could possibly want is
easy to make with
a bit of machining.
In th case (pun intended) of the museum, the catcvhes took a square key
abotut 5/16" on a side, much larger than any Robertson tool. It looked as
thoguh the old 'carriage key [1]' migher have fitted it. In any case, it
would not be hard to make one.
[1] Used to opening bits of publc transprot vehicles, like trains and
buses. Like the cover behind the destination blind on a Routemaster (I
should not know this). The square seciton spidnle fro ma UK door handle
is about the same ziae (a little smaller), something that many schoolboys
discovers (and then caused problems as a result.
AS yet I don';t ahv a set of the 5-pointed torx-like tools, althoguh I
have found suppliers of them. Soemthign I've not seen for sale are
triangulr screwdries (or bits), although I have come across screws with a
triagualr recessin ion the head. That was one time I had to make a tool
to get something apart.
-tony
9:02 p.m.
On Sep 27, 2014, at 4:54 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
...
I just looked up the set I have, at Brownell?s. $74 for the 22-bit set, more for the full
44-bit set which is also out of stock, strangely enough. More than I expected. I
inherited mine.
are found in clockmaker/watchmaker and gunsmith
supply shops. I have
such a set that I use whenever I can, because it can?t slip out of the
slot. There?s a nice set available from Brownell?s in the USA, about 6
width at 4 thickness choices each.
THat sounds useufl. I'll bet it has a price to match, though (not that i
object ot paying money for good tools) ...
Yes, I saw those too. And clutch, robinson of several sizes, pozidriv, ?tamper torx? and
?tamper allen? (which are drilled in the center to clear a pin in the center of the
screw?s recess), and some more.
100 bits for $10 or so. Not strong at all but
good enough for
occasional use, and it included oddball stuff like triwing (like
Phillips but 3-fold symmetry instead of 4-fold). If you run into
There's also Torq (not Torx) which is like phillips but with the 'wings'
offset to as to bcontinuations of the sides of a cetral square. And
several others, of course. ...
They are still an off the shelf item here: Xcelite brand, available from Stanley Supply
(formerly Jensen Tools) among others.
paul
Bristol spline (in 1950s electronics like the
Collins 51-J) it gets a
little harder, but those too are still available at modest prices. And
Bristol spline also turn up in classic computers. I've come across them
in the Friden flaxowriter and in the monitor section of the IBM 5155
(portablePC). Thsoe tools are very hard to find in the UK. I've yet to
find a tool shop (as opposed to a wrb site, etc) that's even heard of them.
28 Sep
28 Sep
5:24 p.m.
are found in clockmaker/watchmaker and gunsmith supply
shops. I have
such a set that I use whenever I can, because it can?t slip out of the
slot. There?s a nice set available from Brownell?s in the USA, about 6
width at 4 thickness choices each.
THat sounds useufl. I'll bet it has a price to match, though (not that i
object ot paying money for good tools) Yes, I saw those too. And clutch, robinson of several
sizes,
pozidriv, ?tamper torx? and ?tamper allen? (which are drilled in the
center to clear a pin in the center of the screw?s recess), and some more.
Yes, I think I have most, if not all, of thsoe. In the UK, finding
inch-size tmaperproof hex is much harder than finding metric ones.
Tamperproof Torx is common, lthrough the smaller sizes are hard to find.
There's slos 'System Zero' which is designed to be almost impossible to
remvoe without the right tools. The bolt head is a frustrum of a cone (so
a self-lockign wrench ('Mole wrench' over here) will just spring off. It
has 6 little slots in it, the tool is a bit like a femal bristol spline.
I relaly must get a set of thsoe 5-pointed Torx-a-likes...
[Bristol spline tools]
They are still an off the shelf item here: Xcelite brand, available
from Stanley Supply (formerly Jensen Tools) among others.
The Xcelleite set is the onyl one Iv'e seen in the UK (and the one I
have). Even so, it's not common. Yes, you can get it by mailorder. But
tool sops (siuch as still exist :-() and DIY stores don't keep it
(there's a good chance such places will have that set of 30
'tamperproof bits).
-tony
29 Sep
29 Sep
11:38 a.m.
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Wiha makes some wonderful screwdrivers and bit sets - and their flat blade
screwdrivers are of the proper non-wedge type. They're very durable, high
quality and actually quite inexpensive for such good tools. A couple years
ago I bought a bit set containing common Phillips, flat and Torx bits, for
less than $20. They are, quite possibly, the best bits I've ever used. They
fit the screws precisely, don't slip, and I've been using them for work
daily and I have yet to even begin to wear them out. The #2 Phillips, the
most common tool I use, is still perfect, despite countless uses.
It's amazing how much easier certain things are with a screwdriver that
fits so well. The three black screws inside a LaserJet 4x50 that hold the
swing plate assembly in place are a prime example. They're in tight, and
are a fairly soft metal - very commonly stripped, and can be difficult to
remove in the confines of the printer. With the Wiha driver, they come
right out without even thinking about it.
-Ian
are found in
clockmaker/watchmaker and gunsmith supply shops. I have
such a set that I use whenever I can, because it can?t slip out of the
slot. There?s a nice set available from Brownell?s in the USA, about 6
width at 4 thickness choices each.
THat sounds useufl. I'll bet it has a price to match, though (not that i
object ot paying money for good tools)
26 Sep
26 Sep
3:51 p.m.
On 9/25/2014 12:53 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Err, no. message on this list, particualrly if they contain errors,
typos, or flames, will be KEPT for eternity.
-tony
FWIW, at least one book I have on antique clocks
says basically 'never
give anythign to a museum'. It will probably jsut be lost for eternity.
Don't send to any, on this LIST; It will be lost for Eternity. :)
7:55 p.m.
On 9/26/2014 1:51 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
I suppose you have a DEAL with the DEVIL to keep spare SOULs for
Eternity too.
Ben.
On 9/25/2014 12:53 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Err, no. message on this list, particualrly if they contain errors,
typos, or flames, will be KEPT for eternity.
-tony
FWIW, at least one book I have on antique clocks
says basically 'never
give anythign to a museum'. It will probably jsut be lost for eternity.
Don't send to any, on this LIST; It will be lost for Eternity. :)
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