26 Sep
2014
26 Sep
'14
1:01 p.m.
Hi all --
I have the opportunity to pick up a Ridge 32/330, which looks like a pretty
interesting 32-bit server/workstation from the mid-80s. It looks seriously
cool, but I'm a bit hesitant to jump on it since it's a pretty large
machine (well, relatively speaking...) that I haven't been able to find
much information about. I have a few *other* interesting machines that are
basically doorstops due to lack of media and documentation, I'm not sure I
need another to add to that category :).
What say you, O Internet Collective?
Thanks,
Josh
26 Sep
26 Sep
1:54 p.m.
I'd grab it; I don't see much information available about it, but that line
of machines appears to use some kind of odd, proprietary CPU? Looks like
they were real expensive when new. Probably won't see another one too soon.
How big is it? I'd at least grab the boards out of it, if you could.
Best,
Sean
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all --
I have the opportunity to pick up a Ridge 32/330, which looks like a pretty
interesting 32-bit server/workstation from the mid-80s. It looks seriously
cool, but I'm a bit hesitant to jump on it since it's a pretty large
machine (well, relatively speaking...) that I haven't been able to find
much information about. I have a few *other* interesting machines that are
basically doorstops due to lack of media and documentation, I'm not sure I
need another to add to that category :).
What say you, O Internet Collective?
Thanks,
Josh
2:41 p.m.
On 9/26/14 1:01 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Hi all --
I have the opportunity to pick up a Ridge 32/330, which looks like a pretty
interesting 32-bit server/workstation from the mid-80s. It looks seriously
cool, but I'm a bit hesitant to jump on it since it's a pretty large
machine (well, relatively speaking...) that I haven't been able to find
much information about. I have a few *other* interesting machines that are
basically doorstops due to lack of media and documentation, I'm not sure I
need another to add to that category :).
What say you, O Internet Collective?
Thanks,
Josh
Grab everything you can get for it, I have the software and docs as well
as lots of spare boards. I've got one of the original Ridge 32's.
27 Sep
27 Sep
12:40 a.m.
On 9/26/2014 2:41 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/26/14 1:01 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Very cool. I'll definitely grab it, then. Thanks!
- Josh
Hi all --
I have the opportunity to pick up a Ridge 32/330, which looks like a
pretty
interesting 32-bit server/workstation from the mid-80s. It looks
seriously
cool, but I'm a bit hesitant to jump on it since it's a pretty large
machine (well, relatively speaking...) that I haven't been able to find
much information about. I have a few *other* interesting machines
that are
basically doorstops due to lack of media and documentation, I'm not
sure I
need another to add to that category :).
What say you, O Internet Collective?
Thanks,
Josh
Grab everything you can get for it, I have the software and docs as well
as lots of spare boards. I've got one of the original Ridge 32's
9:52 p.m.
On 9/27/2014 12:40 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:
On 9/26/2014 2:41 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
Update: With the help of some very er, um... helpful friends I got the
Ridge back to my place this afternoon, and it's now resting
comfortably. I put up an album of pictures here (small as of right now):
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/117997069161125071032/albums/60639768122…
I don't yet have the keys so I can't open the CPU cabinet, but hopefully
I'll get them later this week and post pictures. The machine has no
graphics hardware, and includes an external cabinet for storage (holding
a Cipher 9-track drive and a Fujitsu Eagle). There's some sign of rodent
activity in the storage cabinet (mostly on one of the Eagle's PCBs) but
peeking into the CPU cabinet with the top lid removed, things look OK.
Looks like it's time to get some 20A outlets installed in the basement...
- Josh
On 9/26/14 1:01 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Very cool. I'll definitely grab it, then. Thanks!
- Josh Hi all --
I have the opportunity to pick up a Ridge 32/330, which looks like a
pretty
interesting 32-bit server/workstation from the mid-80s. It looks
seriously
cool, but I'm a bit hesitant to jump on it since it's a pretty large
machine (well, relatively speaking...) that I haven't been able to find
much information about. I have a few *other* interesting machines
that are
basically doorstops due to lack of media and documentation, I'm not
sure I
need another to add to that category :).
What say you, O Internet Collective?
Thanks,
Josh
Grab everything you can get for it, I have the software and docs as well
as lots of spare boards. I've got one of the original Ridge 32's
10:03 p.m.
On 9/27/14 9:52 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
The machine has no graphics hardware
Graphics wasn't a common option. Will be interesting to see if it has ROS or Unix on
it.
Sadly, schematics were impossible to get even when they were new.
They were 10 MIP machines, when VAXen and 68K was 1 MIP.
11:02 p.m.
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:03 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
Sadly, schematics were impossible to get even when
they were new.
Anything custom in it? Or just a lot of 74S/AS/F?
There seems to be surprisingly little surviving information about any
of the Superminis, including Pyramid and SEL/Gould.
28 Sep
28 Sep
7:21 a.m.
On 9/27/14 11:02 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:03 PM, Al Kossow <aek
at bitsavers.org> wrote:
No customs. If I can dig up a reasonable resolution camera I'll shoot some
board pictures (they're big)
Considering how many superminis CHM has in the collection, there is a disappointing
lack of software and documentation for them here. I'm sure it was the usual thing
where
the hardware sat in storage until someone got sick of looking at it, and they never
bothered to save anything else. That was how I ended up with all the Ridge boards,
they showed up at a scrapper and had no idea what they were.
A rear shot of the CPU cabinet would be nice to see. I forgot that it was quite common
to attach a graphics terminal to them through a DR-11W style dual 40 pin interface.
Ridges were used a lot for LSI design with the VTI cad tools.
It would also be interesting if there is an Ethernet interface on it.
The 1985 and 86 processor and hardware reference manuals in pdf/ridge on bitsavers is
about
all that ever existed on the hardware.
Sadly, schematics were impossible to get even
when they were new.
Anything custom in it? Or just a lot of 74S/AS/F?
10:48 a.m.
On 9/28/2014 7:21 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/27/14 11:02 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
I've added some pictures to the rear of the cabinet to the album:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/117997069161125071032/albums/60639768122…
I do appear to have have an Ethernet interface. And peering in through
the back I can see that there's also an SMD drive in the CPU cabinet,
underneath the power supply.
I'm relatively new to SMD -- what would it take to make images of these
drives? Is it similar to MFM drives where the controller dictates the
format/encoding and so you need a matching controller to read them, or
could I, say, pick up an SMD controller for one of my Sun workstations
and go to town?
Also -- any advice on firing up the Eagle? I've cleaned up the rodent
detritus and there appears to be no actual damage, despite a PCB being
covered in droppings. Aside from unlocking the heads, any precautions I
should take?
Thanks,
Josh
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:03 PM, Al Kossow
<aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
No customs. If I can dig up a reasonable resolution camera I'll shoot
some
board pictures (they're big)
Considering how many superminis CHM has in the collection, there is a
disappointing
lack of software and documentation for them here. I'm sure it was the
usual thing where
the hardware sat in storage until someone got sick of looking at it,
and they never
bothered to save anything else. That was how I ended up with all the
Ridge boards,
they showed up at a scrapper and had no idea what they were.
A rear shot of the CPU cabinet would be nice to see. I forgot that it
was quite common
to attach a graphics terminal to them through a DR-11W style dual 40
pin interface. Sadly, schematics were impossible to get even
when they were new.
Anything custom in it? Or just a lot of 74S/AS/F?
Ridges were used a lot for LSI design with the VTI cad tools.
It would also be interesting if there is an Ethernet interface on it.
The 1985 and 86 processor and hardware reference manuals in pdf/ridge
on bitsavers is about
all that ever existed on the hardware.
11:29 a.m.
On 9/28/14 10:48 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:
I'm relatively new to SMD -- what would it take to
make images of these drives? Is it similar to MFM drives where the controller dictates
the format/encoding and so you need a matching controller to
read them
I've heard conflicting stories about that. Some people claim everyone used the same
ECC code on SMD (msg from someone from Prime to be
about that on comp.sys.prime a long time ago)
What I'd do is stick another SMD drive on there and install a fresh stand-alone system
from tape (I've got cartridge tape images of the sw)
Once everything is stable, try adding one of the original disks as a second drive.
It's likely that the cartridge tape roller has gone to goo, though, and probably the
capstan on the Cypher.
I don't think there's much you can do other than unlocking the heads on the eagle
as far as prep.
2:20 p.m.
On 9/28/2014 11:29 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/28/14 10:48 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Sounds good -- I'd love copies of the software. Any idea what density
the tapes are? (I have yet to open this thing to see what the drive is,
since I don't have the keys yet. I have heard rumor that some software
and documentation will accompany the keys, I'll let you know what that
is...)
I'm relatively new to SMD -- what would it
take to make images of
these drives? Is it similar to MFM drives where the controller
dictates the format/encoding and so you need a matching controller to
read them
I've heard conflicting stories about that. Some people claim everyone
used the same ECC code on SMD (msg from someone from Prime to be
about that on comp.sys.prime a long time ago)
What I'd do is stick another SMD drive on there and install a fresh
stand-alone system from tape (I've got cartridge tape images of the sw)
Once everything is stable, try adding one of the original disks as a
second drive.
It's likely that the cartridge tape roller has gone to goo, though,
and probably the capstan on the Cypher.
Definitely. I'll be rebuilding these before I attempt anything.
I don't think there's much you can do other than unlocking the heads
on the eagle as far as prep.
I powered it up this morning; the fan spins up and the DC voltages seem
to be OK, everything lights up. When I flip the Start switch I hear the
motor start relay click, and that's it. 40 seconds later the Fault lamp
comes on. So the logic is running but the motor isn't. I think I'll
probably table this until I get the Ridge doing something interesting,
unless anyone has any quick things to try...
- Josh
9:51 p.m.
On 9/28/2014 4:10 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/28/14 2:20 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Thanks.
Managed to get the CPU cabinet open from the inside; with the top cover
off it's possible to remove the tape drive assembly. Afterwards, the
lock mechanism is exposed though a bit tricky to get to. Took some
pictures of the CPU/Memory boards, I'll do the I/O tomorrow (lots of
cables to sort through.) Board pictures have been uploaded to the
album, they turned out pretty well for cellphone shots without any sort
of stabilization; most of the IC labels are readable...
- Josh
Any idea what density the tapes are?
Should be 60mb
29 Sep
29 Sep
6:28 a.m.
On 9/28/14 9:51 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Took some pictures of the CPU/Memory boards, I'll
do the I/O tomorrow
WFE is "Wallflower Execute"
Wallflower was the middle generation design. Headwall was the last one. There was an LSI
CPU
in the works, but it never happened.
Wallflower and Headwall are both terms used with ridges.
I need to dig around and find my Ridge web page in my backups from the spies.com days..
7:38 a.m.
Wow, cool, thanks for posting those.
That CPU really is built mostly out of discrete components which is
something you don't see everyday, especially on this vintage of machine..
Not a single Am2901 in sight! What are all the larger ICs on the WFE and
WFF boards? ROMs? They look like Signetics parts? Maybe there's some 74181s
in there? Knowing it's a 32-bit CPU, that block of 8 large ICs on the WFE
board looks suspicious... Sorry if silly question, I can't get the pics on
Google Plus to zoom.
Best,
Sean
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/28/2014 4:10 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 9/28/14 2:20 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Thanks.
Managed to get the CPU cabinet open from the inside; with the top cover
off it's possible to remove the tape drive assembly. Afterwards, the lock
mechanism is exposed though a bit tricky to get to. Took some pictures of
the CPU/Memory boards, I'll do the I/O tomorrow (lots of cables to sort
through.) Board pictures have been uploaded to the album, they turned out
pretty well for cellphone shots without any sort of stabilization; most of
the IC labels are readable...
- Josh
Any idea what density the tapes are?
Should be 60mb
26 Sep
26 Sep
2:54 p.m.
On 9/26/14 1:01 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Hi all --
I have the opportunity to pick up a Ridge 32/330, which looks like a pretty
interesting 32-bit server/workstation from the mid-80s.
bit of history
Ridge was formed by ex-HP folks from the 3000 division. One of the main guys was
John Sell, who was one of the microcode gurus on the 3000, the designer of the
3000/40 CPU and one of the architects of PowerPC at Apple.
Ridge's claim to fame was being the first 32 bit "RISC" computer.
In quotes, because it is a microcoded machine.
They wrote their own operating system (ROS), later there was a System V
port done by Bull. The 330 uses a second-generation processor board.
press release
http://books.google.com/books?id=-pFmhH5Yv1AC&pg=RA1-PA73&lpg=RA1-P…
I worked with a lot of ex-Ridge hardware guys through the 90's at Apple.
28 Sep
28 Sep
7:50 a.m.
On 9/26/14 2:54 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
Ridge's claim to fame was being the first 32 bit
"RISC" computer.
In quotes, because it is a microcoded machine.
Also, it was advertised as the first COMMERCIAL RISC computer.
First mention I can find is
Basart, Folger
"Ridge 32 Architecture -- A RISC Variation"
Proceedings of the IEEE International Conference on Computer Design
Nov 3, 1983
Ridge was founded in 1980, the fizzled out around 1986/7 when
MIPSco, Sun and others got traction in the IC RISC processor
market.
Three people from Ridge were founders of NCD in 1988, and
a bunch of hardware people including Hugh Martin and John Sell
came to Apple around that time. Funny that I can remember when
people started based on what buildings they were in (and how
new the offices were at the time).
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17 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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aek＠bitsavers.org -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
scaron＠umich.edu -
spacewar＠gmail.com