21 Jun
2014
21 Jun
'14
3:41 a.m.
On Thu Jun 19 10:28:44 CDT 2014, Zane Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
If you burned your own PAL yourself and you didn't secure the PAL (or
does a PAL16L8 even have a security fuse?) then even if the known PAL
Fuse Map was lost I would assume that it could just be read back from
the PALs on the boards you have, along with dumping the firmware
EPROMs as well.
-Glen
The person that burned the PAL's is the person that had the fire.
Zane
I have had some progress in this matter:
I got a reply to the letter I sent to folks at tdsys.com. The gentleman had
forwarded to the designer of the Viking series of adapter boards and to the
lady that was working with configuration of products. He had not yet go a
reply from them.
I also checked how the address decoding PAL is connected and I now
understand that it has two outputs, connected to another PAL chip and then
16 inputs. These 16 inputs are the 4 jumpers and also BDAL02-BDAL12 and
also the BBS7 signal. Looks quite reasonable being an address decoding
chip. I more or less presume that the reason for two outputs is that one is
for disk and one is for tape. I have to verify that by reverse engineer the
actual content of the PAL using a small arduino board.
You mention that there is a special way of accessing the configuration
menu. It make sense since when I examine the board more carefully I
discover a small serial EEPROM that might be used for storing the
configuration. It would be really interesting to get more info about how to
access this secret menu! Anyone else out there that knows about this?
I have the cab kit for it. It has a DB25 connector as well as a 50 pin male
IDC connector. But there is also pads for a 10 pin connector that seems to
be for the second serial port. What is the use for this second serial port?
The board has a Signetics SCN2681 DUART chip so it definitely has two
serial ports.
Regarding versions of the firmware. My firmware is 4.0 :
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/Viking_Q_B_A4.0.bin
Zane, Pontus: What is your version?
Mattis Lind
On Jun 19, 2014, at 8:14 AM, Glen Slick <glen.slick
at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 7:53 AM, Zane Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Yes, yes, and yes. I did this 15+ years ago, you're making me feel
old. :-(
>>
>> You need the following:
>> 1. A high enough version of the EPROM
>> 2. A PAL Fuse Map for burning a PAL that will allow the board to act as
a
QDT controller (Disk and Tape)
>> 3. A special cable that allows you to connect
a Serial Terminal
>> 4. Instructions on how to get into the hidden menu to configure the
board
>>
>> I should have #4, but I have no clue as to where it is. The person I
knew
that had #2 lost that data in a fire years ago. I seem to recall
hearing about someone jury-rigging #3, I used the pr\
oper cable and bulkhead plate.
28 Sep
28 Sep
2:40 p.m.
A late reply to this thread, sorry about that.
On 06/21/2014 12:41 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
I have had some progress in this matter:
Good news, any other progress since June?
I have the cab kit for it. It has a DB25 connector as
well as a 50 pin male
IDC connector. But there is also pads for a 10 pin connector that seems to
be for the second serial port. What is the use for this second serial port?
The board has a Signetics SCN2681 DUART chip so it definitely has two
serial ports.
I'm missing the CAB kit for my boards, they only have a 50 pin connector
at the edge of the board. Can that be plugged in to a 50 pin SCSI disk
right away? Or do I need to make some modifications or find a CAB kit?
Zane, Pontus: What is your version?
Ok, So I've finally dug my boards out. I found three of them!
1. VIK/QDT, PAL: VIK-DT, ROM: Q/B A3.7
2. VIK/QTO, PAL: VIK-TO, ROM: Missing sticker :(
3. Missing Sticker, PAL: VIK-DT: ROM: Q/B A4.3
Just to verify, QDT is Disk and Tape, QTO is Tape Only and QDO would be
Disk Only?
And if the PAL note is any indication #3 in the list might be a QDT?
I also found some other interesting cards, two Viking UTO, which I
interpret as Unibus Tape Only. Would these be possible to convert to
accept disk?
In another box was a CMD CDU-720/T. A Unibus scsi tape controller, same
question here, can you coax it to talk to disks?
Mattis: If you want you can borrow and dump the 4.3 ROM if you like.
/P
11:28 p.m.
2014-09-28 23:40 GMT+02:00 Pontus <pontus at update.uu.se>:
A late reply to this thread, sorry about that.
On 06/21/2014 12:41 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
No really. Haven't got around really using the disk / controller combo for
some real work yet. But it could dump disk content when using serial
console. And the address was available when accessing it from ODT.
I have had some progress in this matter:
Good news, any other progress since June?
I have the cab kit for it. It has a DB25 connector as well as a 50 pin
The Viking card has two UART serial ports on the DB50 connector which is
split out by the cab-kit. It would be very easy to do your own. And without
the cab kit you cannot talk to the board which is very useful to do. The
pins used for the serial ports are 20,22, 28,30.
As far as I understand these signals normally are ground signals. I guess
that the RS232 drivers has some kind of protection on the outputs and could
handle the short circuit to ground which would happen if you connect the
drive directly.
Here is the manual:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/TD_Systems_Inc_-_9…
, page 5 describe the connector.
male
IDC connector. But there is also pads for a 10 pin connector that seems to
be for the second serial port. What is the use for this second serial
port?
The board has a Signetics SCN2681 DUART chip so it definitely has two
serial ports.
I'm missing the CAB kit for my boards, they only have a 50 pin connector
at the edge of the board. Can that be plugged in to a 50 pin SCSI disk
right away? Or do I need to make some modifications or find a CAB kit?
Zane, Pontus: What is your version?
Ok, So I've finally dug my boards out. I found three of them!
1. VIK/QDT, PAL: VIK-DT, ROM: Q/B A3.7
2. VIK/QTO, PAL: VIK-TO, ROM: Missing sticker :(
3. Missing Sticker, PAL: VIK-DT: ROM: Q/B A4.3
Just to verify, QDT is Disk and Tape, QTO is Tape Only and QDO would be
Disk Only?
And if the PAL note is any indication #3 in the list might be a QDT?
QDT is the disk tape, yes. Conversion between different models is a matter
of accessing the serial console and enter a magic word and then a code for
the type of board. The PAL is pure address decoding so you could have QDT
enabled while the PAL is QTO for example.
I also found some other interesting cards, two Viking UTO, which I
interpret as Unibus Tape Only. Would these be possible to convert to accept
disk?
I think that the software / PAL is identical in these two. It is just a
matter of the bus interface logic that differs. Go ahead and try! I am
sorry I have no ability to program GAL / PALCE chips at the moment.
In another box was a CMD CDU-720/T. A Unibus scsi tape
controller, same
question here, can you coax it to talk to disks?
I don't really know. But I have a CDU-720/M board which we could try to
copy the firmware from.
Mattis: If you want you can borrow and dump the 4.3 ROM if you like.
Yes, that would be nice!
/P
29 Sep
29 Sep
1:15 a.m.
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 08:28:07AM +0200, Mattis Lind wrote:
I'll put it on the TODO list, any reason you think a new PAL is needed
on this board but not the qbus one?
Again, I'll put it on the TODO list. I must one of my UNIBUS machines
runnable first.
Lets work something out further on, I'm rather swamped now.
/P
The Viking card has two UART serial ports on the DB50
connector which is
split out by the cab-kit. It would be very easy to do your own. And without
the cab kit you cannot talk to the board which is very useful to do. The
pins used for the serial ports are 20,22, 28,30.
Ah, yes that is simple enough.
As far as I understand these signals normally are
ground signals. I guess
that the RS232 drivers has some kind of protection on the outputs and could
handle the short circuit to ground which would happen if you connect the
drive directly.
I think I'll go ahead and try to see if its working, perhaps make a cut
in the ribbon cable and leave them floating just to be sure?
Here is the manual:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/TD_Systems_Inc_-_9…
, page 5 describe the connector.
Thank you!
QDT is the disk tape, yes. Conversion between
different models is a matter
of accessing the serial console and enter a magic word and then a code for
the type of board. The PAL is pure address decoding so you could have QDT
enabled while the PAL is QTO for example.
Now I'm confused, Zane explicitly said that a new PAL is required, did
come to some other conclusion?
I also found
some other interesting cards, two Viking UTO, which I
interpret as Unibus Tape Only. Would these be possible to convert to accept
disk?
I think that the software / PAL is identical in these two. It is just a
matter of the bus interface logic that differs. Go ahead and try! I am
sorry I have no ability to program GAL / PALCE chips at the moment. In another box
was a CMD CDU-720/T. A Unibus scsi tape controller, same
question here, can you coax it to talk to disks?
I don't really know. But I have a CDU-720/M board which we could try to
copy the firmware from. Mattis: If you
want you can borrow and dump the 4.3 ROM if you like.
Yes, that would be nice!
4:41 a.m.
2014-09-29 10:15 GMT+02:00 Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at update.uu.se>:
I'll put it on the TODO list, any reason you think a new PAL is needed
on this board but not the qbus one?
Some of the QBUS cards already were QDT, those are not requiring a new PAL.
But the QTO need a new PAL, likewise the UTO need a new PAL.
Again, I'll put it on the TODO list. I must one of my UNIBUS machines
runnable first.
Lets work something out further on, I'm rather swamped now.
/P
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 08:28:07AM +0200, Mattis Lind
wrote:
Well. I was unclear. You need the PAL to make it look like a QDT from the
QBUS / UNIBUS. It is only handling the address decoding. I did investigate
the PAL and how it was connected. There were two outputs that ended up in
some other PAL. I think this is "Disk"-select and "Tape"-select wires.
So
the removable PAL is used to on the QTO only enable the "Tape" signal while
on the QDT enable both of them, but for different addresses.
But the controller itself would happily work fine as a QDT while the PAL is
a QTO.
The Viking card has two UART serial ports on the
DB50 connector which is
split out by the cab-kit. It would be very easy to do your own. And
without
the cab kit you cannot talk to the board which is
very useful to do. The
pins used for the serial ports are 20,22, 28,30.
Ah, yes that is simple enough.
As far as I understand these signals normally are
ground signals. I guess
that the RS232 drivers has some kind of protection on the outputs and
could
handle the short circuit to ground which would
happen if you connect the
drive directly.
I think I'll go ahead and try to see if its working, perhaps make a cut
in the ribbon cable and leave them floating just to be sure?
Here is the manual:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/TD_Systems_Inc_-_9…
, page 5 describe the connector.
Thank you!
QDT is the disk tape, yes. Conversion between
different models is a
matter
of accessing the serial console and enter a magic
word and then a code
for
the type of board. The PAL is pure address
decoding so you could have QDT
enabled while the PAL is QTO for example.
Now I'm confused, Zane explicitly said that a new PAL is required, did
come to some other conclusion?
> I also found some other interesting cards,
two Viking UTO, which I
> interpret as Unibus Tape Only. Would these be possible to convert to
accept
disk?
I think that the software / PAL is identical in these two. It is just a
matter of the bus interface logic that differs. Go ahead and try! I am
sorry I have no ability to program GAL / PALCE chips at the moment. In
another box was a CMD CDU-720/T. A Unibus scsi tape controller, same
question here, can you coax it to talk to disks?
I don't really know. But I have a CDU-720/M board which we could try to
copy the firmware from. Mattis:
If you want you can borrow and dump the 4.3 ROM if you like.
Yes, that would be nice!
8:42 a.m.
On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Pontus <pontus at update.uu.se> wrote:
In another box was a CMD CDU-720/T. A Unibus scsi tape controller, same
question here, can you coax it to talk to disks?
The CMD CDU-720/TM firmware version B2A is available on the archive of
the CMD website.
https://web.archive.org/web/19961226090740/http://www.cmd.com/ftproot/pub/d…
The manual lists three different versions of the CDU-720 CSR decode PAL:
CDU-720/TM - P72008A in U102
CDU-720/M - P72009A in U102
CDU-720/T - P72010A in U102
If it works the same as the CMD CQD-220 then simply replacing the
CDU-720/T firmware with the CDU-720/TM firmware is not sufficient by
itself, you also need to replace the CSR decode PAL.
On the CMD CQD-220 the CSR decode PAL has separate decode output pins
for the MSCP and TMSCP addresses. On the /TM version both outputs
could be driven true for the appropriate addresses. On the /T and /M
versions one of the outputs would always be driven false. If the CMD
CDU-720 uses the same scheme for the CSR decode PAL it shouldn't be
too difficult to reverse engineer the decode PAL for a CMD CDU-720/TM.
I have a CMD CDU-720/M that I could look at to give this a try
sometime.
-Glen
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chd＠chdickman.com -
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pontus＠update.uu.se