5 Nov
2016
5 Nov
'16
7:02 a.m.
I'm making arrangements to have four (mini-)supercomputers from the
1980's shipped to me. In the mean time, I'm trying to find out what I
can about these systems, so this is a fishing expedition.
The systems are:
* Convex C1-XP
* Convex C1-XL
* Intel iPSC/860
* Ardent Titan
Pictures of these can be found on my website, at
http://www.vaxbarn.com/index.php/collection/27-odd/76-four-supercomputers
(click on the thumbnails to see a larger version)
I'd like to get in touch with anyone who knows anything about these
machines, as well as anyone who may have documentation, but I also
have two specific questions:
- Can anyone identify the tape drives shown in the pictures? I believe
the one in the Intel iPSC/860 is an Exabyte 8mm one, but the ones used
on the Convex and the Ardent are a mystery to me.
- Does anyone know what the SRM (System Resource Manager) for the
iPSC/860 physically looks like? Does it look like a PC, and does it
say Intel on the front?
Reason I'm asking is that I'm getting these out of an estate, and I
need to tell them what to look for.
Thanks,
Camiel.
5 Nov
5 Nov
7:37 a.m.
let me see if I can get this scanned this morning
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102719961
you also REALLY want to get any docs and tapes/disks out of there
finding software is going to be extremely difficult
On 11/5/16 7:02 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
- Does anyone know what the SRM (System Resource
Manager) for the
iPSC/860 physically looks like? Does it look like a PC, and does it
say Intel on the front?
7:48 a.m.
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
let me see if I can get this scanned this morning
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102719961
That would be awesome!
you also REALLY want to get any docs and tapes/disks
out of there
finding software is going to be extremely difficult
Yes, I realize that; the difficulty lies in directing them in what to
look for; "anything that says Intel, Ardent, or Convex on it" is a
good beginning, but the more specific I can be in what I ask for, the
higher the chance it'll turn up.
Camiel.
On 11/5/16 7:02 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
- Does anyone know what the SRM (System Resource
Manager) for the
iPSC/860 physically looks like? Does it look like a PC, and does it
say Intel on the front?
8:29 a.m.
there are no useful pictures in the brochures
it appears the SRM is integrated into the cabinet and controls 16 nodes
https://www.nas.nasa.gov/assets/pdf/techreports/1991/rnr-91-001.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20010619235148/http://www.npac.syr.edu/nse/hpcc…
since the original appears to be gone
Paul Pierce was archiving information on these systems. We have a little in the CHM
collection, not a whole
lot on the PSC/860
I have a manual set for the Paragon. It is in silver slipcases
On 11/5/16 7:48 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Al Kossow <aek at
bitsavers.org> wrote:
let me see if I can get this scanned this
morning
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102719961
That would be awesome!
you also REALLY want to get any docs and
tapes/disks out of there
finding software is going to be extremely difficult
Yes, I realize that; the difficulty lies in directing them in what to
look for; "anything that says Intel, Ardent, or Convex on it" is a
good beginning, but the more specific I can be in what I ask for, the
higher the chance it'll turn up.
Camiel.
> On 11/5/16 7:02 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
>
>> - Does anyone know what the SRM (System Resource Manager) for the
>> iPSC/860 physically looks like? Does it look like a PC, and does it
>> say Intel on the front?
>
8:34 a.m.
never mind, that was just for diagnostics
the srm is described further down. it's a 386 running Sys V
it is likely to be either one of their 310 series multibus boxes with
a Wyse terminal, like the iPCS-2, which had a 286 or their 386 clone AT
box
On 11/5/16 8:29 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
there are no useful pictures in the brochures
it appears the SRM is integrated into the cabinet and controls 16 nodes
8:44 a.m.
found a picture of a later generation machine
http://dooki.com/supercomputers/intel/intel.ipsc860.4_i860_40mhz.gif
On 11/5/16 8:34 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
never mind, that was just for diagnostics
the srm is described further down. it's a 386 running Sys V
it is likely to be either one of their 310 series multibus boxes with
a Wyse terminal, like the iPCS-2, which had a 286 or their 386 clone AT
box
On 11/5/16 8:29 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
there are no useful pictures in the brochures
it appears the SRM is integrated into the cabinet and controls 16 nodes
8:52 a.m.
Thanks, that is really helpful; chances are that the box will look similar.
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
found a picture of a later generation machine
http://dooki.com/supercomputers/intel/intel.ipsc860.4_i860_40mhz.gif
On 11/5/16 8:34 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
never mind, that was just for diagnostics
the srm is described further down. it's a 386 running Sys V
it is likely to be either one of their 310 series multibus boxes with
a Wyse terminal, like the iPCS-2, which had a 286 or their 386 clone AT
box
On 11/5/16 8:29 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
there are no useful pictures in the brochures
it appears the SRM is integrated into the cabinet and controls 16 nodes
8:46 a.m.
I have some Paragon tapes, which I didn't manage to recover fully:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k-ccRPWd1TCIGU5wMKTSff-lZns2BIBIYz2IhZwof…
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1wdKJgu8hbkd_1Se3epo10MZt4hWTjNK6kLifHoV9…
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tNanwmBqRs9P7Wm0cs69G0LbQa6CtRp6XMi6xYBmP…
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
never mind, that was just for diagnostics
the srm is described further down. it's a 386 running Sys V
it is likely to be either one of their 310 series multibus boxes with
a Wyse terminal, like the iPCS-2, which had a 286 or their 386 clone AT
box
On 11/5/16 8:29 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
there are no useful pictures in the brochures
it appears the SRM is integrated into the cabinet and controls 16 nodes
10:06 a.m.
apparently, these are links only Chrome understands
they are pictures of intel cartridges
are the tapes physically still in tact?
On 11/5/16 8:46 AM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:
I have some Paragon tapes, which I didn't manage
to recover fully:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k-ccRPWd1TCIGU5wMKTSff-lZns2BIBIYz2IhZwof…
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1wdKJgu8hbkd_1Se3epo10MZt4hWTjNK6kLifHoV9…
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tNanwmBqRs9P7Wm0cs69G0LbQa6CtRp6XMi6xYBmP…
1:26 p.m.
AFAIR only 2 or 3 survived due to bad tape cartridge belt
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 7:06 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
apparently, these are links only Chrome understands
they are pictures of intel cartridges
are the tapes physically still in tact?
On 11/5/16 8:46 AM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:
I have some Paragon tapes, which I didn't
manage to recover fully:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k-ccRPWd1TCIGU5wMKTSff-
lZns2BIBIYz2IhZwofwTrteTiFCPsppZLBX7zxxEuH81P4zM7XQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
1Se3epo10MZt4hWTjNK6kLifHoV9Z9EUXwtJXurEHEmyuE1xXZ53Jc2bVUfd
w=w1920-h1200-rw-no
p6XMi6xYBmPuZ4l6tltQB1DngzVwrXUe3LmFfzc_aDJQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
1:33 p.m.
The tape belts can be replaced. As long as the tape was not physically damaged
it is worth spending time on recovering these, especially the SysV tape and the tools
I just checked in the CHM catalog, and we have almost nothing for the Intel hypercubes
though we have almost every model of machine.
On 11/5/16 1:26 PM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:
AFAIR only 2 or 3 survived due to bad tape cartridge
belt
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 7:06 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
> apparently, these are links only Chrome understands
> they are pictures of intel cartridges
>
> are the tapes physically still in tact?
>
>
> On 11/5/16 8:46 AM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:
>> I have some Paragon tapes, which I didn't manage to recover fully:
>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k-ccRPWd1TCIGU5wMKTSff-
> lZns2BIBIYz2IhZwofwTrteTiFCPsppZLBX7zxxEuH81P4zM7XQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1wdKJgu8hbkd_
> 1Se3epo10MZt4hWTjNK6kLifHoV9Z9EUXwtJXurEHEmyuE1xXZ53Jc2bVUfd
> w=w1920-h1200-rw-no
>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tNanwmBqRs9P7Wm0cs69G0LbQa6CtR
> p6XMi6xYBmPuZ4l6tltQB1DngzVwrXUe3LmFfzc_aDJQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
>>
>
>
>
1:57 p.m.
All other tapes are far beyond repair, they are physically damaged
I double checked what I have been able to dump successfully:
iPSC/860 Extensions Software R3.3
iPSC/860 Extensions Software R3.3.1
iPSC/860 Optional Software R3.3.1
There were two more tapes - fortran compilers and forge software - also
damaged.
In case you are interested I've uploaded the dumps afterpeople.com/i860
I hope I've been useful.
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
The tape belts can be replaced. As long as the tape
was not physically
damaged
it is worth spending time on recovering these, especially the SysV tape
and the tools
I just checked in the CHM catalog, and we have almost nothing for the
Intel hypercubes
though we have almost every model of machine.
On 11/5/16 1:26 PM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:
AFAIR only 2 or 3 survived due to bad tape
cartridge belt
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 7:06 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
> apparently, these are links only Chrome understands
> they are pictures of intel cartridges
>
> are the tapes physically still in tact?
>
>
> On 11/5/16 8:46 AM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:
>> I have some Paragon tapes, which I didn't manage to recover fully:
>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k-ccRPWd1TCIGU5wMKTSff-
> lZns2BIBIYz2IhZwofwTrteTiFCPsppZLBX7zxxEuH81P4zM7XQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1wdKJgu8hbkd_
> 1Se3epo10MZt4hWTjNK6kLifHoV9Z9EUXwtJXurEHEmyuE1xXZ53Jc2bVUfd
> w=w1920-h1200-rw-no
>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tNanwmBqRs9P7Wm0cs69G0LbQa6CtR
> p6XMi6xYBmPuZ4l6tltQB1DngzVwrXUe3LmFfzc_aDJQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
>>
>
>
>
2:08 p.m.
check out
http://mightyframe.blogspot.com/2015/08/qic-24-tape-data-block-format-decod…
he may be willing to try recovering what still exists on the tape
like I say, what is there is pretty important to recover.
On 11/5/16 1:57 PM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:
All other tapes are far beyond repair, they are
physically damaged
I double checked what I have been able to dump successfully:
iPSC/860 Extensions Software R3.3
iPSC/860 Extensions Software R3.3.1
iPSC/860 Optional Software R3.3.1
There were two more tapes - fortran compilers and forge software - also
damaged.
In case you are interested I've uploaded the dumps afterpeople.com/i860
6:34 p.m.
Around 1985, Tony Anderson of Intel gave me a tour of the Intel Scientific
Computers operations at their Oregon facility. At the time they were
building the 80286-based iPSC/1. Seemed like pretty neat stuff.
That was where I learned that one shouldn't stick one's hands into a
computer while wearing metal jewelry (rings, watches, etc.), even if only
low voltages are present. Fortunately I didn't have to learn it the hard
way.
6 Nov
6 Nov
9:19 a.m.
The tapes are already spoken few weeks ago and they will travel to US. I
will share whatever is able to be recovered.
On Saturday, November 5, 2016, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
check out
http://mightyframe.blogspot.com/2015/08/qic-24-tape-data-
block-format-decoding.html
he may be willing to try recovering what still exists on the tape
like I say, what is there is pretty important to recover.
On 11/5/16 1:57 PM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:
All other tapes are far beyond repair, they are
physically damaged
I double checked what I have been able to dump successfully:
iPSC/860 Extensions Software R3.3
iPSC/860 Extensions Software R3.3.1
iPSC/860 Optional Software R3.3.1
There were two more tapes - fortran compilers and forge software - also
damaged.
In case you are interested I've uploaded the dumps afterpeople.com/i860
2 Apr
2 Apr
11:37 p.m.
Hi, Plamen & Al,
I'm just catching up on some of these past threads involving QIC
cartridges. What ever became of these Paragon tapes? Were you able to
read them and archive the contents?
Thanks all,
-AJ
http://QICreader.com
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Plamen Mihaylov <plamenspam at afterpeople.com>
wrote:
I have some Paragon tapes, which I didn't manage
to recover fully:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k-ccRPWd1TCIGU5wMKTSff-
lZns2BIBIYz2IhZwofwTrteTiFCPsppZLBX7zxxEuH81P4zM7XQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1wdKJgu8hbkd_
1Se3epo10MZt4hWTjNK6kLifHoV9Z9EUXwtJXurEHEmyuE1xXZ53Jc2bVUfd
w=w1920-h1200-rw-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tNanwmBqRs9P7Wm0cs69G0LbQa6CtR
p6XMi6xYBmPuZ4l6tltQB1DngzVwrXUe3LmFfzc_aDJQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
--
Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/
never mind, that was just for diagnostics
the srm is described further down. it's a 386 running Sys V
it is likely to be either one of their 310 series multibus boxes with
a Wyse terminal, like the iPCS-2, which had a 286 or their 386 clone AT
box
On 11/5/16 8:29 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
there are no useful pictures in the brochures
it appears the SRM is integrated into the cabinet and controls 16 nodes
3 Apr
3 Apr
2:57 a.m.
Hello AJ, Al,
It took me a while, but I finally shipped the tapes to Raymond Stricklin.
I also have SunOS 2.0 tapes:
http://afterpeople.com/images/Image%20(30).tif
http://afterpeople.com/images/Image%20(31).tif
Al, check if these have been already images, if not I'll mail them to AJ.
BR,
Plamen
On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 9:37 AM, AJ Palmgren via cctech <
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi, Plamen & Al,
I'm just catching up on some of these past threads involving QIC
cartridges. What ever became of these Paragon tapes? Were you able to
read them and archive the contents?
Thanks all,
-AJ
http://QICreader.com
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Plamen Mihaylov <
plamenspam at afterpeople.com>
wrote:
--
Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/
I have some Paragon tapes, which I didn't
manage to recover fully:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k-ccRPWd1TCIGU5wMKTSff-
lZns2BIBIYz2IhZwofwTrteTiFCPsppZLBX7zxxEuH81P4zM7XQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1wdKJgu8hbkd_
1Se3epo10MZt4hWTjNK6kLifHoV9Z9EUXwtJXurEHEmyuE1xXZ53Jc2bVUfd
w=w1920-h1200-rw-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tNanwmBqRs9P7Wm0cs69G0LbQa6CtR
p6XMi6xYBmPuZ4l6tltQB1DngzVwrXUe3LmFfzc_aDJQ=w1920-h1200-rw-no
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
>
> never mind, that was just for diagnostics
>
> the srm is described further down. it's a 386 running Sys V
>
> it is likely to be either one of their 310 series multibus boxes with
> a Wyse terminal, like the iPCS-2, which had a 286 or their 386 clone AT
> box
>
> On 11/5/16 8:29 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
> > there are no useful pictures in the brochures
> >
> > it appears the SRM is integrated into the cabinet and controls 16
nodes
11:18 a.m.
On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 9:37 AM, AJ Palmgren via cctech <
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi, Plamen & Al,
I'm just catching up on some of these past threads involving QIC
cartridges. What ever became of these Paragon tapes? Were you able
to read them and archive the contents?
I'm probably showing my age (again), but "QIC" and
"Supercomputers" just
seems to be about as related as "Chateau Margaux" and "Cheez Whiz".
If one is spending millions on a supercomputer, why would anyone want to
put software for it on a QIC cart?
--Chuck
11:23 a.m.
On Mon, 3 Apr 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I'm probably showing my age (again), but
"QIC" and "Supercomputers" just
seems to be about as related as "Chateau Margaux" and "Cheez Whiz".
If one is spending millions on a supercomputer, why would anyone want to
put software for it on a QIC cart?
Because it holds more than an Exatron Stringy Floppy? (the obvious second
choice for high reliability storage)
12:28 p.m.
________________________________________
From: cctalk [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk [cctalk
at classiccmp.org]
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 2:23 PM
To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Supercomputers, fishing for information
On Mon, 3 Apr 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I'm probably showing my age (again), but
"QIC" and "Supercomputers" just
seems to be about as related as "Chateau Margaux" and "Cheez Whiz".
If one is spending millions on a supercomputer, why would anyone want to
put software for it on a QIC cart?
Because it holds more than an Exatron Stringy Floppy? (the obvious second
choice for high reliability storage)
__________________________________________
Don't bite that tongue plunged deeply into your cheek.
The Exatron was at best a joke. Of course, better than most options of
the time but still anythng but reliable.
bill
1:29 p.m.
I'm
probably showing my age (again), but "QIC" and "Supercomputers" just
seems to be about as related as "Chateau Margaux" and "Cheez Whiz".
If one is spending millions on a supercomputer, why would anyone want to
put software for it on a QIC cart?
Because it holds more than an Exatron Stringy Floppy? (the obvious second
choice for high reliability storage)
1:49 p.m.
On 04/03/2017 01:29 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:
I'm almost afraid to see if the one Jim Battle
sent me a long time
ago still works.
This points up to a common misunderstanding among vendors, I think. I
question the use of QIC for *archival* storage; it certainly was less
expensive than other comparably-sized media to deploy.
For *distribution*, where the cart is essentially a short-term affair
(until it can be copied to archival storage), it does make sense.
--Chuck
11:44 a.m.
On Mon, 3 Apr 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 9:37 AM, AJ Palmgren via cctech
<
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Dammit Chuck, not while I'm drinking coffee! :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Hi, Plamen & Al,
I'm just catching up on some of these past threads involving QIC
cartridges. What ever became of these Paragon tapes? Were you able
to read them and archive the contents?
I'm probably showing my age (again), but "QIC" and
"Supercomputers" just
seems to be about as related as "Chateau Margaux" and "Cheez Whiz".
12:07 p.m.
On Mon, 3 Apr 2017, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I'm probably showing my age (again), but
"QIC" and "Supercomputers" just
seems to be about as related as "Chateau Margaux" and "Cheez Whiz".
If one is spending millions on a supercomputer, why would anyone want to
put software for it on a QIC cart?
Well, I have two larger boxes filled with QIC tapes for our former NEC
SX-4 (the original SW distribution and all patches, updates, etc.).
Christian
8:31 p.m.
On April 3, 2017 1:18:31 PM CDT, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 9:37 AM, AJ Palmgren via cctech
<
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The OS for the ETA -10 was installed from QIC tape because you put it in through an Apollo
DN3000 or similar service unit... pretty sure that was THE way to get 'er done on
that machine.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Hi, Plamen & Al,
I'm just catching up on some of these past threads involving QIC
cartridges. What ever became of these Paragon tapes? Were you able
to read them and archive the contents?
I'm probably showing my age (again), but "QIC" and
"Supercomputers"
just
seems to be about as related as "Chateau Margaux" and "Cheez Whiz".
If one is spending millions on a supercomputer, why would anyone want
to
put software for it on a QIC cart?
--Chuck
10:05 p.m.
On 04/03/2017 08:31 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
The OS for the ETA -10 was installed from QIC tape
because you put it
in through an Apollo DN3000 or similar service unit... pretty sure
that was THE way to get 'er done on that machine.
Hmmm, on the STAR (CYBER 200), it was loaded from the MCU drum.
But yeah, those stations were expensive, so I can understand using a
commodity workstation. Did the Apollo ever have a 1/2" tape unit on it?
--Chuck
5 Nov
5 Nov
8:50 a.m.
Hi Al,
I think you're mixing up the SRM (one per system) with the unit
service module. According to this document
http://www.par.univie.ac.at/publications/download/ipsc860.pdf, it's an
Intel SYP301. That appears to be an Intel 386 motherboard.
Camiel
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
there are no useful pictures in the brochures
it appears the SRM is integrated into the cabinet and controls 16 nodes
https://www.nas.nasa.gov/assets/pdf/techreports/1991/rnr-91-001.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20010619235148/http://www.npac.syr.edu/nse/hpcc…
since the original appears to be gone
Paul Pierce was archiving information on these systems. We have a little in the CHM
collection, not a whole
lot on the PSC/860
I have a manual set for the Paragon. It is in silver slipcases
On 11/5/16 7:48 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Al Kossow <aek
at bitsavers.org> wrote:
let me see if I can get this scanned this
morning
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102719961
That would be awesome!
you also REALLY want to get any docs and
tapes/disks out of there
finding software is going to be extremely difficult
Yes, I realize that; the difficulty lies in directing them in what to
look for; "anything that says Intel, Ardent, or Convex on it" is a
good beginning, but the more specific I can be in what I ask for, the
higher the chance it'll turn up.
Camiel.
> On 11/5/16 7:02 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
>
>> - Does anyone know what the SRM (System Resource Manager) for the
>> iPSC/860 physically looks like? Does it look like a PC, and does it
>> say Intel on the front?
> 
8:36 p.m.
On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 3:37 AM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
let me see if I can get this scanned this morning
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102719961
you also REALLY want to get any docs and tapes/disks out of there
finding software is going to be extremely difficult
Jim Austin now has my Convex C220 and he took a bunch of manuals and
tapes I retrieved with the system. I *think* I was also able to supply
him with the root password...!
http://www.computermuseum.org.uk/fixed_pages/convex_c220.html
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
10:03 a.m.
- Can anyone identify the tape drives shown in the
pictures? I
believe the one in the Intel iPSC/860 is an Exabyte 8mm one, but the
ones used on the Convex and the Ardent are a mystery to me.
All three look to me like QIC drives using DC600 cartridges. For the
Convexen this also makes sense, because we had a C240 at work in the
90s, and software distribution tapes for it were on DC600 carts. (I
have a box of them I need to image.)
De
2:30 p.m.
I can take the Titan off your hands if you like, I have really wanted this machine. I am
serious, and with $$.
Here is some things for you if you decide to keep it and turn me down.
A great book, all about its development and includes technical details about the Titan
bus, and an intro By Gordon Bell:
The "Architecture of Supercomputers, Titan, a Case Study" Daniel P. Siewiorek,
Philip Jonathan Koopman, Jr. ISBN 0-12-643060-8
This was sort of a promotional book, the sales guys would give this out to customers, also
a complete shelf of documentation.
Their target market was scientific visualization, they had Stellar jumping into this also,
so it was West Coast vs East coast and their was not enough market anyway, even as sexy as
scientific visualization was at the time. They merged, then failed as Stardent. Silicon
Graphics hung on for bit longer with the movie industry, then they fell too. (Note that
Google HQ is the SGI building, I find it disgusting that they put pink flamingos around
the Jurassic Park dino statue.)
The key software on the Ardent is Advanced Visualization System, AVS, an Ardent product
that survived and still exists today. It is a graphical data-flow type application, much
like Labview or GNURadio are two examples that come to mind. You wire up function blocks
to process and create the visualization stream, then the last key element is their
Dore' (Dynamic Object Rendering Environment) that does all the wow factor graphics in
realtime. There was a knob box too, for XYZ or manipulating the data.
The Ardent roadshow had 'FLAG' as a demo with the knob box, you could adjust
windspeed and direction, lighting also to see a fully rendered finite element model of a
cloth flag waving in the wind in realtime. Pretty impressive for the late '80s.
When it all crashed Kubota came in for the rescue (a tractor company???!!! wha? )
The spun out one more machine based on Intel's 'Cray on a chip' the i860. I
saw one of these, it was a desktop uinit, and reminded me of SGI's Indy.
Dore' is still out there and released to public domain, it was one of the
'ports' in FreeBSD. I did get it up and running with the 'Flag' demo.
I hope you get yours up and running on the real hardware.
Randy
________________________________
From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Camiel Vanderhoeven
<iamcamiel at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2016 7:02 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Supercomputers, fishing for information
I'm making arrangements to have four (mini-)supercomputers from the
1980's shipped to me. In the mean time, I'm trying to find out what I
can about these systems, so this is a fishing expedition.
The systems are:
* Convex C1-XP
* Convex C1-XL
* Intel iPSC/860
* Ardent Titan
Pictures of these can be found on my website, at
http://www.vaxbarn.com/index.php/collection/27-odd/76-four-supercomputers
Four Supercomputers -
VAXBARN<http://www.vaxbarn.com/index.php/collection/27-odd/76-four-super…
www.vaxbarn.com
Hopefully, if all goes well, I will soon be the owner of three four 1980's
(mini-)supercomputers, although I'm not 100% sure exactly what they are (more on that
when ...
(click on the thumbnails to see a larger version)
I'd like to get in touch with anyone who knows anything about these
machines, as well as anyone who may have documentation, but I also
have two specific questions:
- Can anyone identify the tape drives shown in the pictures? I believe
the one in the Intel iPSC/860 is an Exabyte 8mm one, but the ones used
on the Convex and the Ardent are a mystery to me.
- Does anyone know what the SRM (System Resource Manager) for the
iPSC/860 physically looks like? Does it look like a PC, and does it
say Intel on the front?
Reason I'm asking is that I'm getting these out of an estate, and I
need to tell them what to look for.
Thanks,
Camiel.
6 Nov
6 Nov
8:44 a.m.
I'm making arrangements to have four
(mini-)supercomputers from the
1980's shipped to me. In the mean time, I'm trying to find out what I
can about these systems, so this is a fishing expedition.
The systems are:
* Convex C1-XP
* Convex C1-XL
* Intel iPSC/860
* Ardent Titan
Pictures of these can be found on my website, at
http://www.vaxbarn.com/index.php/collection/27-odd/76-four-supercomputers
(click on the thumbnails to see a larger version)
Wow! I don't know too much about Convex, but when I was younger I would go
to NASA auctions trying to pick up SGI hardware, smaller supercomputers
and ion laser systems. There was a Convex system at one of the earlier
auctions I went to (NASA Langley in Hampton Virginia.)
The thing is, I don't remember it being a "mini" supercomputer at all. It
had the same gold decor that your images show, but it was large! Big
cabinets!
Like many of my peers here, I'm kind of a data hoarder so I just looked
and sho' nuff I still have the pictures I took with an early digital
camera at that NASA auction of the Convex that was up for sale:
http://imgur.com/Pqr7dJ4
http://imgur.com/hbyZ9pV
August 26, 2000!
Anyways, I didn't think I'd ever hear of any of those systems again.
Kudos!
9:03 a.m.
On 11/6/16 8:44 AM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
The thing is, I don't remember it being a
"mini" supercomputer at all. It had the same gold decor that your images show,
but it was large! Big cabinets!
But smaller than the Crays of the era.
If it doesn't run on 400Hz, it's a 'mini' supercomputer.
CHM was really into collecting this sort of iron in the late 90's
as they were all getting scrapped.
9:18 a.m.
But smaller than the Crays of the era.
If it doesn't run on 400Hz, it's a 'mini' supercomputer.
Hmmm I knew the earlier Crays often had motor generator setups and such
but I thoght that was just for power filtering and maybe flywheels for
ups setups. Didn't know they were 400hz! Odd!
CHM was really into collecting this sort of iron in
the late 90's
as they were all getting scrapped.
Don't know that person off the top of my head. I owned a Maspar MP2 at one
point (small!) and have owned some Cray J90 series (heavy.) I still think
large SGIs are the friendly "supercomputer." In my travels there is a guy
named James who has/had a verrrrry nice Cray collection. Haven't talked to
him in a few years though hope he is doing well. He had some of the 6000
pounders IIRC.
--
Ethan O'Toole
9:53 a.m.
On 11/6/16 9:18 AM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
In my travels there is a guy named James who
has/had a verrrrry nice Cray collection. Haven't talked to him in a few years though
hope he is doing well. He had some
of the 6000 pounders IIRC.
Supercomputer collectors are like the mainframe collectors, they like to keep a low
profile other than the
Cray-Cyber folks in Munich.
I don't know what they do for software. We tried getting it with the last Cray we got,
and got nowhere getting it released.
7 Nov
7 Nov
8:46 a.m.
Supercomputer collectors are like the mainframe
collectors, they like to keep a low profile other than the
Cray-Cyber folks in Munich.
Those guys are cool, and I appreciate them putting notes online. My Crays
had their hard disks removed and destroyed (came from high side / govt
contractor / nuclear engineering for war machines.) When it came to trying
to get info to re-install the OS I found that every collector I could find
with a working machine -- it came to them with the OS installed and
everything :-)
I have Unicos for the J90 series but I'm not 100% sure the release and
stuff I have is compatible with my machine. It kernel panics on install
boot -- could be a config thing or it could be the binaries I have are for
some other version / iteration / etc.
I worked around a number of Cray employees as well and they had no idea.
I don't know what they do for software. We tried
getting it with the last Cray we got, and got nowhere getting it released.
Yep, I hit the same thing. Cray was willing to write me permission to use
though -- they faxed me document saying I was okay to run my system and
such but they obviously weren't going to fork over the OS. At this point
Cray had already switched hands and was out of the custom computer
business and in the PC cluster business I think.
I wouldn't be surprised if Unicos like IRIX has licensed components in it
and they can't distribute it even with it being old.
I was just in California / Silicon Valley for work and got to hang with
some ex-SGI people that are friends of friend and I was asking them what
happened to all the SGI documentation and stuff on the proprietary
graphics systems and such -- any chance of it ever being cleared for
release / does it still exist / etc. I think one of the guys might of
mentioned you! But he talked as if much of that documentation was gone.
--
Ethan O'Toole
8:57 a.m.
On 11/7/16 8:46 AM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
I think one of the guys might of
mentioned you! But he talked as if much of that documentation was gone.
Yup, all dumpstered by the company formerly known as Rackable
What survives is in the hands of collectors. They worked hard to save what
was still left at the end.
SGI was just as brutal to Cray. Scorched earth to their archives a decade before.
9:09 a.m.
Yup, all dumpstered by the company formerly known as Rackable
What survives is in the hands of collectors. They worked hard to save what
was still left at the end.
SGI was just as brutal to Cray. Scorched earth to their archives a decade before.
Ugh. To be fair, I even know CEOs today of companies making tech products
that don't really like to look at the past or live in it -- they see
themselves as focused on the future.
Still a shame they couldn't of at least shelved documentation and source.
At the time of it's disposal it probably didn't seem relevant, and perhaps
it isn't so much outside of those of us with nostalgia for the systems we
grew up around or ones we dreamed of messing with.
Also, when I was younger (I didn't really participate in any of this hands
on) I used to hang out in some IRC channels and remember seeing source
code tarballs get passed around to things like SunOS, Solaris and IRIX. I
guess they were leaked from companies with partner source code license
contracts or insecure systems. Mostly used either as trophies or people
looking for more security vulnerabilities (independent unauthorized source
code audit I guess you would call it.) Right as it would happen you would
see a bunch of new CERT advisories from some random group and it was like,
"Yep, they're digging through that source tarball floating around." Those
source tarballs are likely to still be out there somewhere.
6 Nov
6 Nov
10:46 a.m.
On 11/06/2016 09:18 AM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
Not at all--that goes back at least to the 1960s. Consider the CDC
mainframes--MG sets providing 3-phase 400Hz power to variac-regulated
3-phase fullwave rectifier setups. The ripple frequency is 2400Hz and
has a very high DC component.
This is a very sensible arrangement, as the power supplies need not be
tailored to a specific line voltage or frequency.
I'm somewhat surprised that no one talks much about cooling systems on
supercomputers, be it forced air or liquid nitrogen. Both Cray and CDC
spent a fair amount of time and money on getting cooling to their big
machines.
How about cooling towers for the chilled water supply?
--Chuck
But smaller
than the Crays of the era. If it doesn't run on 400Hz,
it's a 'mini' supercomputer.
Hmmm I knew the earlier Crays often had motor generator setups and
such but I thoght that was just for power filtering and maybe
flywheels for ups setups. Didn't know they were 400hz! Odd! 
10:57 a.m.
On 11/06/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 11/06/2016 09:18 AM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
Not at all--that
goes back at least to the 1960s. Consider the CDC
mainframes--MG sets providing 3-phase 400Hz power to variac-regulated
3-phase fullwave rectifier setups. The ripple frequency is 2400Hz and
has a very high DC component.
All 370's ran off 415 Hz 3-phase power. The mid-sized ones
had the motor-generator set built into the back of the
machine. The 415 Hz (regulated) power was transformed to
low voltage and run through an inductor-input filter and
then series pass regulated. They had a circuit they called
an "electronic capacitor" that pulled extra current through
the inductor during the voltage peaks, so the inductor
carried enough current during the voltage valleys. This
reduced the ripple current on the capacitor banks.
The 360s ran off single-phase 120 V 2500 Hz power, produced
by a "converter-inverter" unit in the back, that converted
utility 3-phase power to DC, then inverted it with an SCR
inverter. This made the DC power supplies in the machine
quite small. Since they ran off regulated 2500 Hz power,
they dropped only a very small voltage across the
series-pass transistor.
Jon
But
smaller than the Crays of the era. If it doesn't run on 400Hz,
it's a 'mini' supercomputer.
Hmmm I knew the earlier Crays often had
motor generator setups and
such but I thoght that was just for power filtering and maybe
flywheels for ups setups. Didn't know they were 400hz! Odd! 
10:30 p.m.
The Convex C38xx as well the Fujitsu VPP used isolation transformers.
Luckily I was able to save the Transformer for my C3880.
Am 06.11.2016 um 19:57 schrieb Jon Elson <elson at
pico-systems.com>:
On 11/06/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 11/06/2016 09:18 AM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
Not at all--that
goes back at least to the 1960s. Consider the CDC
mainframes--MG sets providing 3-phase 400Hz power to variac-regulated
3-phase fullwave rectifier setups. The ripple frequency is 2400Hz and
has a very high DC component.
All 370's ran off 415 Hz 3-phase power. The mid-sized ones had the
motor-generator set built into the back of the machine. The 415 Hz (regulated) power was
transformed to low voltage and run through an inductor-input filter and then series pass
regulated. They had a circuit they called an "electronic capacitor" that pulled
extra current through the inductor during the voltage peaks, so the inductor carried
enough current during the voltage valleys. This reduced the ripple current on the
capacitor banks.
The 360s ran off single-phase 120 V 2500 Hz power, produced by a
"converter-inverter" unit in the back, that converted utility 3-phase power to
DC, then inverted it with an SCR inverter. This made the DC power supplies in the machine
quite small. Since they ran off regulated 2500 Hz power, they dropped only a very small
voltage across the series-pass transistor.
Jon
But
smaller than the Crays of the era. If it doesn't run on 400Hz,
it's a 'mini' supercomputer.
Hmmm I knew the earlier Crays often had
motor generator setups and
such but I thoght that was just for power filtering and maybe
flywheels for ups setups. Didn't know they were 400hz! Odd!
7 Nov
7 Nov
8:59 a.m.
All 370's ran off 415 Hz 3-phase power. The
mid-sized ones had the
motor-generator set built into the back of the machine. The 415 Hz
(regulated) power was transformed to low voltage and run through an
inductor-input filter and then series pass regulated. They had a circuit
they called an "electronic capacitor" that pulled extra current through the
inductor during the voltage peaks, so the inductor carried enough current
during the voltage valleys. This reduced the ripple current on the capacitor
banks.
The 360s ran off single-phase 120 V 2500 Hz power, produced by a
"converter-inverter" unit in the back, that converted utility 3-phase power
to DC, then inverted it with an SCR inverter. This made the DC power
supplies in the machine quite small. Since they ran off regulated 2500 Hz
power, they dropped only a very small voltage across the series-pass
transistor.
Jon
Am I getting this right?
So they take AC turn it to DC then turn it back to high frequency AC
then turn it back to DC to drop the need for larger capacitors to keep
the DC clean?
Pretty wild.
Anyone run any of this stuff at home / light commercial clubhouses?
--
Ethan O'Toole
10:25 a.m.
On 11/07/2016 10:59 AM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
Yes, that's how the 360's (at least mid-range) were set up.
You could tell, the converter-inverter was INSANELY loud, at
a massively piercing audio frequency. The key was that this
one unit gave regulated AC power to all critical power
supplies in the system, so they could skimp on regulation on
the individual power supplies.
It actually didn't work so well, if you had crummy power,
which we had a bad case on at Washington University in the
70's - 80's. They had 4160 V cables buried all over campus,
fed from one transformer at the power plant. These cables
were in concrete "conduits" which had water leaks. So the
wires, with 4160 V on them, were essentially sitting in
muddy water all the time, and corona discharges broke down
the insulation. We had one of these cables fail every
couple months, with a massive power dip for a few seconds
before the fuses cleared. But, for weeks before the big
POP, they would be arcing and flashing, which drove the 360
crazy. A small dip would cause things like control store
parity errors, main store parity errors or just system
power-on resets. They got a Dranetz analyzer, and could
correlate more than half the machine crashes with a power
glitch. They got some big Digital Power Systems
ultra-isolation transformers, but I really don't think they
helped much, as the problem was momentary dips. (Later,
shielded cables came in, these have a layer of copper mesh
over the main insulation, so there is no AC field present on
the outside of the cable. As far as I know, the original
shielded cables are still in there, once they got all the
old unshielded stuff out, these problems just stopped
happening.)
All 370's
ran off 415 Hz 3-phase power. The mid-sized
ones had the motor-generator set built into the back of
the machine. The 415 Hz (regulated) power was
transformed to low voltage and run through an
inductor-input filter and then series pass regulated.
They had a circuit they called an "electronic capacitor"
that pulled extra current through the inductor during the
voltage peaks, so the inductor carried enough current
during the voltage valleys. This reduced the ripple
current on the capacitor banks.
The 360s ran off single-phase 120 V 2500 Hz power,
produced by a "converter-inverter" unit in the back, that
converted utility 3-phase power to DC, then inverted it
with an SCR inverter. This made the DC power supplies in
the machine quite small. Since they ran off regulated
2500 Hz power, they dropped only a very small voltage
across the series-pass transistor.
Jon
Am I getting this right?
So they take AC turn it to DC then turn it back to high
frequency AC then turn it back to DC to drop the need for
larger capacitors to keep the DC clean?
Pretty wild.
Anyone run any of this stuff at home / light
commercial
clubhouses?
We tried to get a 370/145 running at a guy's house. That
had the 17 KVA motor generator set in the back (WAY more
than a 145 needed, but they apparently used one MG set for a
range of machines). But, he only had 60 A 240V single-phase
service, and we couldn't even spin up the MG set with no
load. We built a static phase converter, but the imaginary
current was over 60 A. Well, NO SURPRISE, if we'd just read
the nameplate we would have known it was a fool's errand.
The 3-phase line current on the thing was about 55 A, per
3-PHASE LINE, so running it off SINGLE-PHASE, the line
current would HAVE to be 1.7 X that much, wouldn't it? OF
course!
We should have just scrapped the original 415 Hz power
supplies and got our hands on a bank of 5V supplies and
adapted them. The thing ran off +1.2 and -3 V supplies at
390 A, although I think that was for the max configuration,
this one had minimal internal memory, so should have been less.
Jon
10:41 a.m.
I wonder if LCM has ever measured the power draw of each of their big machines?
On 11/7/16 10:25 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
We tried to get a 370/145 running at a guy's
house. That had the 17 KVA motor generator set in the back (WAY more than
a 145 needed, but they apparently used one MG set for a range of machines). But, he only
had 60 A 240V single-phase
service, and we couldn't even spin up the MG set with no load. We built a static
phase converter, but the imaginary
current was over 60 A. Well, NO SURPRISE, if we'd just read the nameplate we would
have known it was a fool's errand.
The 3-phase line current on the thing was about 55 A, per 3-PHASE LINE, so running it off
SINGLE-PHASE, the line current
would HAVE to be 1.7 X that much, wouldn't it? OF course!
11:04 a.m.
Yes, that's how the 360's (at least mid-range)
were set up. You could tell,
the converter-inverter was INSANELY loud, at a massively piercing audio
frequency. The key was that this one unit gave regulated AC power to all
Wild!
We tried to get a 370/145 running at a guy's
house. That had the 17 KVA
motor generator set in the back (WAY more than a 145 needed, but they
apparently used one MG set for a range of machines). But, he only had 60 A
240V single-phase service, and we couldn't even spin up the MG set with no
load. We built a static phase converter, but the imaginary current was over
60 A. Well, NO SURPRISE, if we'd just read the nameplate we would have known
it was a fool's errand. The 3-phase line current on the thing was about 55 A,
per 3-PHASE LINE, so running it off SINGLE-PHASE, the line current would HAVE
to be 1.7 X that much, wouldn't it? OF course!
We should have just scrapped the original 415 Hz power supplies and got our
hands on a bank of 5V supplies and adapted them. The thing ran off +1.2 and
-3 V supplies at 390 A, although I think that was for the max configuration,
this one had minimal internal memory, so should have been less.
Ah yea, the laser show geeks IIRC would run full 200A household service
just to get 30A 3phase off of rotary converters. A used diesel generator
set might be another option, or if you're REALLY lucky getting 3 phase
from the utility without paying crazy (probably only
going to work if
you're next to commercial user that already has 3ph step down
already in
place.)
Hmmm it shouldn't be that hard in this day and age to come up with that
kind of current assuming switchers would be clean enough. I have a home
use LED video screen I assembled/am finishing from Chinese modules that
runs on 480 amps @ 5vdc, power supplies set me back maybe $300 or less.
Could probably adjust them down or get similar units or higher quality
stuff from surplus (Pioneer Magnetics, etc)
--
Ethan O'Toole
11:23 a.m.
On 11/07/2016 11:04 AM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
Hmmm it shouldn't be that hard in this day and age
to come up with
that kind of current assuming switchers would be clean enough. I have
a home use LED video screen I assembled/am finishing from Chinese
modules that runs on 480 amps @ 5vdc, power supplies set me back
maybe $300 or less. Could probably adjust them down or get similar
units or higher quality stuff from surplus (Pioneer Magnetics, etc)
A lot depends on location. If you're out in a rural area and serviced
by a Rural Electric Cooperative (REC), it's pretty easy, although there
are the initial costs for the cable, distribution box and transformer.
Farm equipment such as hay dryers tend to be 440V 3-phase, so it's not
something out of the ordinary.
Similarly, if you've got space in a commercial/industrial section of
town, 3-phase power almost goes along without mention. Office buildings
and warehouses tend to have 3-phase service.
Of course, this is US practice. If you were, say, in Germany, 3-phase
power is pretty standard for residential service--the only concern is
the current-carrying capacity.
But if you're a suburban resident living on Mulberry Street, anything
but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
--Chuck
5:59 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
But if you're a suburban resident living on
Mulberry Street, anything
but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
Oh, you can get it -- but be prepared for a large hassle.
A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his backyard shop,
among other toys. After he was laid off from his aerospace job doing
machining it was how he made his living. He was a very handy person
to know :-)
mcl
8:31 p.m.
On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck Guzis
wrote:
I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill and
Sheldon lathe) and run them each off a properly-sized VFD.
2-phase in, 3-phase out, plus variable speed and dynamic
braking.
Jon
But if you're a suburban resident living on
Mulberry Street, anything
but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
Oh, you can get it -- but be
prepared for a large hassle.
A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his backyard shop,
among other toys. After he was laid off from his aerospace job doing
machining it was how he made his living. He was a very handy person
to know :-)
mcl
8 Nov
8 Nov
8:47 a.m.
On 11/07/2016 10:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
And, of course, that is really SINGLE-PHASE power on 2
wires, just to save anybody the trouble of correcting my error.
Jon
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck
Guzis wrote:
I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill
and Sheldon lathe) and run them each off a properly-sized
VFD. 2-phase in, 3-phase out, plus variable speed and
dynamic braking.
Jon
But if you're a suburban resident living on
Mulberry
Street, anything
but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
Oh, you can get it -- but be
prepared for a large hassle.
A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his
backyard shop,
among other toys. After he was laid off from his
aerospace job doing
machining it was how he made his living. He was a very
handy person
to know :-)
mcl
9:08 a.m.
On Nov 8, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Jon Elson <elson at
pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 11/07/2016 10:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for the IBM 4331 gear. I haven?t quite
added up the power requirements yet but I?m guessing its going to be in the 10-15kVA
range. Since the power to all of the gear is really split between 3 loads (string of 4
3340 drives, 3803 control unit + 2 3420 tape drives and 2821 control uint + 1403 printer +
2540 card reader/punch) I need to figure out if it?s best to have one big converter or 3
smaller ones. It?s unlikely that I?d be running all of the peripherals at once. The 4331
itself runs off of single phase 220v.
TTFN - Guy
On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
And, of course, that is really SINGLE-PHASE power on 2 wires, just to save
anybody the trouble of correcting my error.
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck
Guzis wrote:
I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill and Sheldon lathe) and
run them each off a properly-sized VFD. 2-phase in, 3-phase out, plus variable speed and
dynamic braking.
Jon
But if you're a suburban resident living on
Mulberry Street, anything
but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
Oh, you can get it -- but be
prepared for a large hassle.
A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his backyard shop,
among other toys. After he was laid off from his aerospace job doing
machining it was how he made his living. He was a very handy person
to know :-)
mcl
9:22 a.m.
On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr <ggs
at shiresoft.com> wrote:
A VFD is a good option and may be quite economical if you get one of the low cost simple
ones. I have one (3 hp model for my lathe) that cost only a bit over $100, though the
price has gone up since. (Westinghouse TECO brand.) VFDs specified for single phase
input tend to stop around 3 hp, as far as I have seen. Rumor has it that higher power
units will also work (possibly with some derating) even though they claim to be 3 phase
input, when you feed them just one phase on 2 of the 3 wires. I haven't tried that
(but it matches how my VFD is connected).
The other option is a "rotary converter". Basically that's a 3 phase motor
connected to one phase power (with a start and run capacitor); it generates the missing
phase roughtly in dynamotor fashion. Those can be built (articles on the web) or bought
from machinery supply companies such as Enco; they show models up to 20 hp, i.e., about 15
kW. When I was looking into converters, I found VFDs to be the less expensive option.
The instant reverse and variable frequency features were also attractive for lathe use;
for powering computers that would not apply. Well, not unless you need 400 Hz for your
Cyber 6600 -- in which case you'd need to check the VFD will go that high, not all
do.
Given that you have a number of smaller devices and that not all might need to run,
several smaller converters sounds like a good option, especially if that gets you into the
"economy VFD" range.
paul
On Nov 8, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Jon Elson <elson
at pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 11/07/2016 10:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for the IBM 4331 gear. I haven?t
quite added up the power requirements yet but I?m guessing its going to be in the 10-15kVA
range. Since the power to all of the gear is really split between 3 loads (string of 4
3340 drives, 3803 control unit + 2 3420 tape drives and 2821 control uint + 1403 printer +
2540 card reader/punch) I need to figure out if it?s best to have one big converter or 3
smaller ones. It?s unlikely that I?d be running all of the peripherals at once. The 4331
itself runs off of single phase 220v. On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
And, of course, that is really SINGLE-PHASE power on 2 wires, just to save
anybody the trouble of correcting my error.
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck
Guzis wrote:
> But if you're a suburban resident living on Mulberry Street, anything
> but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
Oh, you can get it -- but be prepared for a large hassle.
A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his backyard shop,
among other toys. After he was laid off from his aerospace job doing
machining it was how he made his living. He was a very handy person
to know :-)
mcl
I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill and Sheldon lathe) and
run them each off a properly-sized VFD. 2-phase in, 3-phase out, plus variable speed and
dynamic braking.
Jon
9:33 a.m.
On Nov 8, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Paul Koning <paulkoning
at comcast.net> wrote:
Yea, that?s what I?m struggling with. The issue is that the control units power the
devices that are connected to them (from what I can tell), so I have to power the entire
string as one unit. The same goes for the 3340?s - the entire string is powered as a
unit. The string of 3340?s need ~5kVA (I don?t know how that translates to HP). I?m
still trying to figure out the requirements for the other strings.
TTFN - Guy
On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr
<ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
A VFD is a good option and may be quite economical if you get one of the low cost simple
ones. I have one (3 hp model for my lathe) that cost only a bit over $100, though the
price has gone up since. (Westinghouse TECO brand.) VFDs specified for single phase
input tend to stop around 3 hp, as far as I have seen. Rumor has it that higher power
units will also work (possibly with some derating) even though they claim to be 3 phase
input, when you feed them just one phase on 2 of the 3 wires. I haven't tried that
(but it matches how my VFD is connected).
The other option is a "rotary converter". Basically that's a 3 phase motor
connected to one phase power (with a start and run capacitor); it generates the missing
phase roughtly in dynamotor fashion. Those can be built (articles on the web) or bought
from machinery supply companies such as Enco; they show models up to 20 hp, i.e., about 15
kW. When I was looking into converters, I found VFDs to be the less expensive option.
The instant reverse and variable frequency features were also attractive for lathe use;
for powering computers that would not apply. Well, not unless you need 400 Hz for your
Cyber 6600 -- in which case you'd need to check the VFD will go that high, not all
do.
Given that you have a number of smaller devices and that not all might need to run,
several smaller converters sounds like a good option, especially if that gets you into the
"economy VFD" range. On Nov 8, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Jon Elson <elson
at pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 11/07/2016 10:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for the IBM 4331 gear. I haven?t
quite added up the power requirements yet but I?m guessing its going to be in the 10-15kVA
range. Since the power to all of the gear is really split between 3 loads (string of 4
3340 drives, 3803 control unit + 2 3420 tape drives and 2821 control uint + 1403 printer +
2540 card reader/punch) I need to figure out if it?s best to have one big converter or 3
smaller ones. It?s unlikely that I?d be running all of the peripherals at once. The 4331
itself runs off of single phase 220v. On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>> But if you're a suburban resident living on Mulberry Street, anything
>> but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
> Oh, you can get it -- but be prepared for a large hassle.
>
> A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his backyard shop,
> among other toys. After he was laid off from his aerospace job doing
> machining it was how he made his living. He was a very handy person
> to know :-)
>
> mcl
>
I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill and Sheldon lathe) and run them
each off a properly-sized VFD. 2-phase in, 3-phase out, plus variable speed and dynamic
braking.
Jon
And, of course, that is really SINGLE-PHASE power on 2 wires, just to save
anybody the trouble of correcting my error.
9:39 a.m.
On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 09:33:37 -0800
Guy Sotomayor Jr <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
Here's a "conversion" website:
http://ncalculators.com/electrical/kva-conversion.htm
Cheers,
Lyle
--
73 AF6WS
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
On Nov 8,
2016, at 9:22 AM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
wrote:
Yea, that?s what I?m struggling with. The issue is that the control
units power the devices that are connected to them (from what I can
tell), so I have to power the entire string as one unit. The same
goes for the 3340?s - the entire string is powered as a unit. The
string of 3340?s need ~5kVA (I don?t know how that translates to
HP). I?m still trying to figure out the requirements for the other
strings. On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr
<ggs at shiresoft.com>
wrote:
A VFD is a good option and may be quite economical if you get one
of the low cost simple ones. I have one (3 hp model for my lathe)
that cost only a bit over $100, though the price has gone up
since. (Westinghouse TECO brand.) VFDs specified for single phase
input tend to stop around 3 hp, as far as I have seen. Rumor has
it that higher power units will also work (possibly with some
derating) even though they claim to be 3 phase input, when you feed
them just one phase on 2 of the 3 wires. I haven't tried that (but
it matches how my VFD is connected).
The other option is a "rotary converter". Basically that's a 3
phase motor connected to one phase power (with a start and run
capacitor); it generates the missing phase roughtly in dynamotor
fashion. Those can be built (articles on the web) or bought from
machinery supply companies such as Enco; they show models up to 20
hp, i.e., about 15 kW. When I was looking into converters, I found
VFDs to be the less expensive option. The instant reverse and
variable frequency features were also attractive for lathe use; for
powering computers that would not apply. Well, not unless you need
400 Hz for your Cyber 6600 -- in which case you'd need to check the
VFD will go that high, not all do.
Given that you have a number of smaller devices and that not all
might need to run, several smaller converters sounds like a good
option, especially if that gets you into the "economy VFD" range. On Nov 8, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Jon Elson <elson
at pico-systems.com>
wrote:
On 11/07/2016 10:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>>> But if you're a suburban resident living on Mulberry Street,
>>> anything but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
>> Oh, you can get it -- but be prepared for a large hassle.
>>
>> A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his
>> backyard shop, among other toys. After he was laid off from
>> his aerospace job doing machining it was how he made his
>> living. He was a very handy person to know :-)
>>
>> mcl
>>
> I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill and
> Sheldon lathe) and run them each off a properly-sized VFD.
> 2-phase in, 3-phase out, plus variable speed and dynamic braking.
>
> Jon
>
And, of course, that is really SINGLE-PHASE power on 2 wires,
just to save anybody the trouble of correcting my error.
I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for the IBM
4331 gear. I haven?t quite added up the power requirements yet
but I?m guessing its going to be in the 10-15kVA range. Since the
power to all of the gear is really split between 3 loads (string
of 4 3340 drives, 3803 control unit + 2 3420 tape drives and 2821
control uint + 1403 printer + 2540 card reader/punch) I need to
figure out if it?s best to have one big converter or 3 smaller
ones. It?s unlikely that I?d be running all of the peripherals at
once. The 4331 itself runs off of single phase 220v.
9:55 a.m.
On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr <ggs
at shiresoft.com> wrote:
...
The classic formula is 1 hp = 750 W. But there's more to the picture. Motors draw a
steady state current based on the power demanded from them, and the hp rating shows the
max that they are designed for. But when starting they draw much more current.
http://www.vfds.com/blog/vfd-buying-guide has a pile of good information, including more
about the use of single phase input. It's clearly an accepted practice, and yes,
there's derating involved.
Given that your devices are partly motor loads, but certainly not entirely, the startup
surge is likely to be modest by motor controller standards. So the key question would be
the steady state current vs. what the controller is rated for.
paul
A VFD is a good option and may be quite economical if you get one of the low cost simple
ones. I have one (3 hp model for my lathe) that cost only a bit over $100, though the
price has gone up since. (Westinghouse TECO brand.) VFDs specified for single phase
input tend to stop around 3 hp, as far as I have seen. Rumor has it that higher power
units will also work (possibly with some derating) even though they claim to be 3 phase
input, when you feed them just one phase on 2 of the 3 wires. I haven't tried that
(but it matches how my VFD is connected).
...
Given that you have a number of smaller devices and that not all might need to run,
several smaller converters sounds like a good option, especially if that gets you into the
"economy VFD" range.
Yea, that?s what I?m struggling with. The issue is that the control units power the
devices that are connected to them (from what I can tell), so I have to power the entire
string as one unit. The same goes for the 3340?s - the entire string is powered as a
unit. The string of 3340?s need ~5kVA (I don?t know how that translates to HP). I?m
still trying to figure out the requirements for the other strings.
6:24 p.m.
On 11/08/2016 11:55 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
The
classic formula is 1 hp = 750 W. But there's more to the picture. Motors draw a
steady state current based on the power demanded from them, and the hp rating shows the
max that they are designed for. But when starting they draw much more current.
Well, actually, motors draw a fairly constant current, and
the phase angle between current and the applied voltage
changes with load. At idle, a motor draws almost pure
lagging current (phase almost 90 degrees lagging the
voltage) and at full load the current is nearly in phase
with the voltage. So, the POWER draw changes with load, but
the line current changes much less!
Jon
6:21 p.m.
On 11/08/2016 11:33 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote:
Yea, that?s what I?m struggling with. The issue is
that
the control units power the devices that are connected to
them (from what I can tell), so I have to power the entire
string as one unit. The same goes for the 3340?s - the
entire string is powered as a unit. The string of 3340?s
need ~5kVA (I don?t know how that translates to HP). I?m
still trying to figure out the requirements for the other
strings. TTFN - Guy
Just a warning, you MUST NOT power electronics from a VFD!
(In theory, you can do it with a VERY effective filter, but
I've never heard of anybody having success with it.) They
produce high frequency square waves at 400 V, and will do
great damage to electronic loads. They work great for
motors, although the HF square waves can cause noise issues
in sensitive electronics like tape and disk drives.
Jon
11:51 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Koning
Sent: 08 November 2016 17:22
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Supercomputers, fishing for information
I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for the IBM 4331 gear. I
haven?t quite added up the power requirements yet but I?m guessing its
going to be in the 10-15kVA range. Since the power to all of the gear is really
split between 3 loads (string of 4 3340 drives, 3803 control unit + 2 3420 tape
drives and 2821 control uint + 1403 printer + 2540 card reader/punch) I need
to figure out if it?s best to have one big converter or 3 smaller ones. It?s
unlikely that I?d be running all of the peripherals at once. The 4331 itself runs
off of single phase 220v.
Not sure how familiar with the 4331 you are, but from what I remember, the microcode
checks devices at poweron and may get itself in a tizz
If peripherals are not powered on...
Dave
On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr
<ggs at shiresoft.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 8, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/07/2016 10:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>> On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
>>> On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>>>> But if you're a suburban resident living on Mulberry Street,
>>>> anything but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
>>> Oh, you can get it -- but be prepared for a large hassle.
>>>
>>> A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his backyard
>>> shop, among other toys. After he was laid off from his aerospace
>>> job doing machining it was how he made his living. He was a very
>>> handy person to know :-)
>>>
>>> mcl
>>>
>> I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill and Sheldon
lathe)
and run them each off a properly-sized VFD. 2-phase in, 3-phase out,
plus variable speed and dynamic braking.
>>
>> Jon
>>
> And, of course, that is really SINGLE-PHASE power on 2 wires, just to save
anybody the trouble of correcting my error.
A VFD is a good option and may be quite economical if
you get one of the low
cost simple ones. I have one (3 hp model for my lathe) that cost only a bit
over $100, though the price has gone up since. (Westinghouse TECO brand.)
VFDs specified for single phase input tend to stop around 3 hp, as far as I
have seen. Rumor has it that higher power units will also work (possibly with
some derating) even though they claim to be 3 phase input, when you feed
them just one phase on 2 of the 3 wires. I haven't tried that (but it matches
how my VFD is connected).
The other option is a "rotary converter". Basically that's a 3 phase
motor
connected to one phase power (with a start and run capacitor); it generates
the missing phase roughtly in dynamotor fashion. Those can be built (articles
on the web) or bought from machinery supply companies such as Enco; they
show models up to 20 hp, i.e., about 15 kW. When I was looking into
converters, I found VFDs to be the less expensive option. The instant
reverse and variable frequency features were also attractive for lathe use;
for powering computers that would not apply. Well, not unless you need 400
Hz for your Cyber 6600 -- in which case you'd need to check the VFD will go
that high, not all do.
Given that you have a number of smaller devices and that not all might need
to run, several smaller converters sounds like a good option, especially if that
gets you into the "economy VFD" range.
paul
12:09 p.m.
On Nov 8, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm
at gmail.com> wrote:
I?ll cross that bridge when I get to it. ;-) With the exception of the 3340?s
(which are directly attached to the 4331), I?m wondering how the microcode would know
since the other peripherals are connected through control units which are on the
bus-and-tag bus. I would expect that an OS that was gen?d for all of the peripherals
might get weird (or not) if it didn?t find the peripherals but I?ll happily deal with that
when I get that far.
I still have to physically get the system here. I poked around it this past weekend
(where is currently stored). I did get all of the docs, tapes, 3340 packs, etc and that
filled up my (large) pickup truck?it was a lot of stuff.
TTFN - Guy
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Koning
Sent: 08 November 2016 17:22
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Supercomputers, fishing for information
I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for the IBM 4331 gear. I
haven?t quite added up the power requirements yet but I?m guessing its
going to be in the 10-15kVA range. Since the power to all of the gear is really
split between 3 loads (string of 4 3340 drives, 3803 control unit + 2 3420 tape
drives and 2821 control uint + 1403 printer + 2540 card reader/punch) I need
to figure out if it?s best to have one big converter or 3 smaller ones. It?s
unlikely that I?d be running all of the peripherals at once. The 4331 itself runs
off of single phase 220v.
Not sure how familiar with the 4331 you are, but from what I remember, the microcode
checks devices at poweron and may get itself in a tizz
If peripherals are not powered on?
On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr
<ggs at shiresoft.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 8, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/07/2016 10:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>> On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
>>> On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>>>> But if you're a suburban resident living on Mulberry Street,
>>>> anything but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
>>> Oh, you can get it -- but be prepared for a large hassle.
>>>
>>> A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his backyard
>>> shop, among other toys. After he was laid off from his aerospace
>>> job doing machining it was how he made his living. He was a very
>>> handy person to know :-)
>>>
>>> mcl
>>>
>> I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill and Sheldon
lathe)
and run them each off a properly-sized VFD. 2-phase in, 3-phase out,
plus variable speed and dynamic braking.
>>
>> Jon
>>
> And, of course, that is really SINGLE-PHASE power on 2 wires, just to save
anybody the trouble of correcting my error.
12:51 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy
Sotomayor Jr
Sent: 08 November 2016 20:10
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Supercomputers, fishing for information
Not sure how familiar with the 4331 you are, but from what I remember,
the microcode checks devices at poweron and may get itself in a tizz
If peripherals are not powered on?
I?ll cross that bridge when I get to it. ;-) With the exception of the 3340?s
(which are directly attached to the 4331), I?m wondering how the microcode
would know since the other peripherals are connected through control units
which are on the bus-and-tag bus. I would expect that an OS that was gen?d
for all of the peripherals might get weird (or not) if it didn?t find the
peripherals but I?ll happily deal with that when I get that far.
Having checked out the operators guide here:-
http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/content/computing/IBM/Mainframe/Hardware/Sys…
it looks like the 4331 does not have a full IO config, but later models like the 4381 have
a definition of all the attached devices in the microcode so they can check everything is
working before you IPL the machine.
The physical planning manual for 43xx machines is in the above folder so you can check the
power needs of each device..
On Nov 8, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Dave Wade
<dave.g4ugm at gmail.com>
wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul
> Koning
> Sent: 08 November 2016 17:22
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Supercomputers, fishing for information
>
>
>> On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr <ggs at shiresoft.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 8, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/07/2016 10:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2016 07:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 11:23:58AM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>>>>>> But if you're a suburban resident living on Mulberry Street,
>>>>>> anything but single-phase is pretty much out of the question.
>>>>> Oh, you can get it -- but be prepared for a large hassle.
>>>>>
>>>>> A former neighbor had a 440V 3-phase Italian lathe in his
>>>>> backyard shop, among other toys. After he was laid off from his
>>>>> aerospace job doing machining it was how he made his living. He
>>>>> was a very handy person to know :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> mcl
>>>>>
>>>> I have two 3-phase machines in my shop (Bridgeport mill and
>>>> Sheldon
> lathe) and run them each off a properly-sized VFD. 2-phase in,
> 3-phase out, plus variable speed and dynamic braking.
>>>>
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>> And, of course, that is really SINGLE-PHASE power on 2 wires, just
>>> to save
> anybody the trouble of correcting my error.
>>>
>>
>> I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for the IBM 4331
>> gear. I
> haven?t quite added up the power requirements yet but I?m guessing
> its going to be in the 10-15kVA range. Since the power to all of the
> gear is really split between 3 loads (string of 4 3340 drives, 3803
> control unit + 2 3420 tape drives and 2821 control uint + 1403
> printer + 2540 card reader/punch) I need to figure out if it?s best
> to have one big converter or 3 smaller ones. It?s unlikely that I?d
> be running all of the peripherals at once. The 4331 itself runs off of single
phase 220v.
I still have to physically get the system here. I poked around it this past
weekend (where is currently stored). I did get all of the docs, tapes, 3340
packs, etc and that filled up my (large) pickup truck?it was a lot of stuff.
Take care with the Microcode disks. The CPU and many controllers
TTFN - Guy
12:45 p.m.
I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for
the IBM 4331
gear. I haven?t quite added up the power requirements yet but I?m
guessing its going to be in the 10-15kVA range. Since the power to all
of the gear is really split between 3 loads (string of 4 3340 drives,
3803 control unit + 2 3420 tape drives and 2821 control uint + 1403
printer + 2540 card reader/punch) I need to figure out if it?s best to
have one big converter or 3 smaller ones. It?s unlikely that I?d be
running all of the peripherals at once. The 4331 itself runs off of
single phase 220v.
I keep thinking about moving my J90 series box from Norfolk storage up to
Northern Virginia -- I've been tempted to ping some of the lower tier data
centers to see if they have space that can't be filled due to changes in
technology. Maybe I could beg to get a low rent on some space to store the
system and have the three 220v connections to fire it up once in a while
and try to get the OS installed again. I have no idea if it could happen.
The facility I work in probably wouldn't do it but it's a bit more modern.
Some of the older ones can't use all of the space because the density of
hardware climbed so much that there isn't enough power/cooling to match.
--
Ethan O'Toole
6:18 p.m.
On 11/08/2016 11:08 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote:
I?m looking to have to do something to get 3-phase for
the
IBM 4331 gear. I haven?t quite added up the power
requirements yet but I?m guessing its going to be in the
10-15kVA range. Since the power to all of the gear is
really split between 3 loads (string of 4 3340 drives,
3803 control unit + 2 3420 tape drives and 2821 control
uint + 1403 printer + 2540 card reader/punch) I need to
figure out if it?s best to have one big converter or 3
smaller ones. It?s unlikely that I?d be running all of the
peripherals at once. The 4331 itself runs off of single
phase 220v. TTFN - Guy
This is tricky stuff. Motor VFDs produce 400 V square
waves
of varying duty cycle, so unless you built a very good
filter, you couldn't feed that to a a lot of these devices.
Possibly you could rewire all that stuff to run the
electronics off single-phase power, and use VFDs for the
3-phase motors. I know the tape drive vacuum blowers and
1403 printer had 3-phase motors in them. Likely the 3340's
do, too. I'm guessing some of those control units may have
run off single-phase, with the supplies balanced across
different phases. That was fairly common for stuff that
didn't draw massive amounts of power. Sounds like QUITE a
project!
Jon
7 Nov
7 Nov
5:56 p.m.
On 11/07/2016 01:04 PM, ethan at 757.org wrote:
Hmmm it shouldn't be that hard in this day and age to come
up with that kind of current assuming switchers would be
clean enough. I have a home use LED video screen I
assembled/am finishing from Chinese modules that runs on
480 amps @ 5vdc, power supplies set me back maybe $300 or
less. Could probably adjust them down or get similar units
or higher quality stuff from surplus (Pioneer Magnetics, etc)
Switching supplies
can be as clean as you need them to be,
just a matter of proper filtering.
Jon
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