5 Jan
2017
5 Jan
'17
5:22 a.m.
From: Klemens Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with
cheap burning spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
Noel
5 Jan
5 Jan
5:36 a.m.
We have a similar common name for it being 'brand spiritus'.
It's basically 90% - 92% alcohol, with the rest being methanol and water
and it's color is blue-ish.
Ed
--
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On Thu, January 5, 2017 14:22, Noel Chiappa wrote:
From: Klemens
Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning
spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black
traces from
occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide
coating with this
torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After
poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's
the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
Noel
9:23 a.m.
On 1/5/17 8:36 AM, E. Groenenberg wrote:
We have a similar common name for it being 'brand
spiritus'.
It's basically 90% - 92% alcohol, with the rest being methanol and water
and it's color is blue-ish.
Ed
--
In the past from the local print and painting supplier "De-natured alcohol"
Usually in a pint or gallon can (this is USA). I also buy Lacquer thinner,
Acetone, Ethanol (99.4pure) and MEK in the same form all powerful
solvents and better than 99% pure.
Rubbing alcohol is ok save for its isopropanol plus water (either 70% or
91%).
The latter 91% is safe for many uses and is water clear it leaves no
residue
(however one must assure its dry after).
There is also Rubbing Alcohol that is ethanol plus water with an added
denaturant
(toxic) to render it safe for skin use and not for drinking.
GC chemicals supplies two different residue free solvent cleaners.
My favorite head cleaner was banned in many places Xylene, takes curd
off like no tomorrow. May melt the user too.
As to cleaning and repairing the drum... DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING UNTIL
YOU ARE SURE of the process to be applied. That applies to solvents, wipes,
and all. Use gloves! Test solvents near an edge or other area that is
not critical.
Allison
Ik email, dus ik besta.
BTC : 1J5fajt8ptyZ2V1YURj3YJZhe5j3fJVSHN
LTC : LP2WuEmYPbpWUBqMFGJfdm7pdHEW7fKvDz
On Thu, January 5, 2017 14:22, Noel Chiappa wrote:
From:
Klemens Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning
spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black
traces from
occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide
coating with this
torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After
poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's
the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
Noel
6 Jan
6 Jan
6:11 a.m.
>The latter 91% is safe for many uses and is water
clear it leaves no residue
>(however one must assure its dry after).
And what type of microscope did you use to determine there is no residue ?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:23 AM, allison <ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote:
On 1/5/17 8:36 AM, E. Groenenberg wrote:
We have a similar common name for it being 'brand spiritus'.
It's basically 90% - 92% alcohol, with the rest being methanol and water
and it's color is blue-ish.
Ed
--
In the past from the local print and painting supplier "De-natured alcohol"
Usually in a pint or gallon can (this is USA). I also buy Lacquer thinner,
Acetone, Ethanol (99.4pure) and MEK in the same form all powerful
solvents and better than 99% pure.
Rubbing alcohol is ok save for its isopropanol plus water (either 70% or
91%).
The latter 91% is safe for many uses and is water clear it leaves no residue
(however one must assure its dry after).
There is also Rubbing Alcohol that is ethanol plus water with an added
denaturant
(toxic) to render it safe for skin use and not for drinking.
GC chemicals supplies two different residue free solvent cleaners.
My favorite head cleaner was banned in many places Xylene, takes curd
off like no tomorrow. May melt the user too.
As to cleaning and repairing the drum... DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING UNTIL
YOU ARE SURE of the process to be applied. That applies to solvents, wipes,
and all. Use gloves! Test solvents near an edge or other area that is not
critical.
Allison
Ik email, dus ik besta.
BTC : 1J5fajt8ptyZ2V1YURj3YJZhe5j3fJVSHN
LTC : LP2WuEmYPbpWUBqMFGJfdm7pdHEW7fKvDz
On Thu, January 5, 2017 14:22, Noel Chiappa wrote:
From: Klemens Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning
spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black
traces from
occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide
coating with this
torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After
poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's
the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like
it
might be acetone?
Noel
1:47 a.m.
On Thu, 5 Jan 2017, E. Groenenberg wrote:
We have a similar common name for it being 'brand
spiritus'.
It's basically 90% - 92% alcohol, with the rest being methanol and water
and it's color is blue-ish.
German "Spiritus", as it's called here, usually is 94% ethanol, 1-2%
butanone and water. Surely no methanol as this is lethal. Also no dye.
Spiritus is a clear and highly volatile liquid. It's also very cheap, a
one liter bottle is around 2 Euros.
Christian
5 Jan
5 Jan
5:55 a.m.
On 05/01/2017 13:22, Noel Chiappa wrote:
From: Klemens
Krause
> We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with cheap burning spirit
> and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
> head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this torture. First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume
this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
I'm sure it's not ! :-) He'll mean the sort of alcohol used in a spirit
burner. The UK equivalent is "methylated spirit" - primarily ethanol
but with a (un)healthy dose of methanol to make it unfit to drink (and
hence exempt from excise duty) plus pyridine (and small amounts of other
things) to give it an unpleasant taste and odour, and some methyl purple
dye to make it obvious at a glance. Denatured alcohol, in other words.
I don't think the German (EU) version has the dye although it does
contain IPA and MEK. For cleaning, because of that dye, isopropyl
alcohol (IPA, isopropanol) is often a better choice in the UK.
In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is mostly denatured ethanol (though
"isopropyl rubbing alcohol" is mostly IPA), but always contains other
chemicals as well. Either should do for cleaning a disk.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
6:43 a.m.
DEC (branded, made by Texwipe) cleaning pads contained 99% isopropyl
alcohol. The most important part was being non abrasive.
I would consider using Texwipe or other brands of non abrasive
materials before I even though about a solvent.
I remember a disk being being cleaned with common paper towels, when
that person was done you could see the scratches all over the platter.
At one time the system I ran had over 200 packs in use.
Another thing to watch out for is the two halves of some if not all
were screwed together with self tapping screws. When you take
them apart bit of plastic may come out of the holes or fall off the
insides of the screw threads. That plastic if gets between the platter
and head will not be to the heads advantage.
BTW watch out for the filter cartridge seals disintegrating,
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 5:55 AM, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 05/01/2017 13:22, Noel Chiappa wrote:
From: Klemens Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning
spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black
traces from
occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide
coating with this
torture. First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I
assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After
poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's
the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
I'm sure it's not ! :-) He'll mean the sort of alcohol used in a spirit
burner. The UK equivalent is "methylated spirit" - primarily ethanol but
with a (un)healthy dose of methanol to make it unfit to drink (and hence
exempt from excise duty) plus pyridine (and small amounts of other things)
to give it an unpleasant taste and odour, and some methyl purple dye to make
it obvious at a glance. Denatured alcohol, in other words. I don't think
the German (EU) version has the dye although it does contain IPA and MEK.
For cleaning, because of that dye, isopropyl alcohol (IPA, isopropanol) is
often a better choice in the UK.
In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is mostly denatured ethanol (though
"isopropyl
rubbing alcohol" is mostly IPA), but always contains other chemicals as
well. Either should do for cleaning a disk.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
10:06 a.m.
Another thing to watch out for is the two halves of
some if not all
were screwed together with self tapping screws. When you take
them apart bit of plastic may come out of the holes or fall off the
insides of the screw threads. That plastic if gets between the platter
and head will not be to the heads advantage.
I seem to recall that one of the RK05 manuals warned that when re-fitting
said screws you should always put them in, turn them anticlockwise
until the threads engage and then tighten them clockwise. Just
screwing them in not only risks (as ever) stripping the thread in the
plastic housing, but also the action of cutting the new thread may
cause bits of plastic to break loose and they might (will!) end up
where they shouldn't
-tony
3 Apr
3 Apr
6:33 a.m.
Another thing to watch out for is the two halves of
some if not all
were screwed together with self tapping screws. When you take
them apart bit of plastic may come out of the holes or fall off the
insides of the screw threads. That plastic if gets between the platter
and head will not be to the heads advantage.
Ah, oh.... How should that get between
the heads and the platter? It's
nearly impossible to get something of substantial size into that gap.
Look at the RK05 manual (and pack bag): It's the *really* small stuff
that gets into the wrong place.
Normal dust from the paper you used for cleaning (and from your working
environment) is kicked off the platter by the head. Makes funny sounds.
My procedure: Clean the disk, load it, manually visit the whole surface
with the heads. If it crashes or clinging does not go away soon,
reclean. If the disk has become silent and is running nicely, I give the
heads a "quick brutal cleaning": Towel with IPA, between the heads, load
heads onto the towel, move towel until heads clean. Must be done
carefully...
I once had an RC05 disk crashing. With an awful noise and a white stripe
on the disk. After cleaning, both heads and disks were fully functional
again. But I have also seen packs which look perfect but either keep
making heavy sound or having data errors.
Philipp
11:25 a.m.
>Ah, oh.... How should that get between the heads
and the platter?
If it can happen it will. It did. I had saved up three or four cartridges
for future repair. I was told such work should be done by
(someone not so expensive) so off they went to one of the manufacturing
repair techs. I was busy a few weeks later and did
not do my usual look inside. Spun up the RK05 and data errors all over the
place. Pulled the cart, did a head inspection and
there was a not the usual black/dark brown streak on the head. Go get the
box of Texwipes, etc and pull out the RK, but the
head just did not feel smooth, if you have done such a cleaning a dozen
times you get to know the feeling when you know
things are flat again. So time to take the cartridge apart. Its screws
needed very little torque, as in a couple pretty much
fell out. Yep the inside was full of plastic shards. Later found out the
tech used an air screwdriver to put the screws back.
Anyway, I put a DO NOT USE sticker on the door and called DEC, yep .. the
head had to be replaced. For years I kept
it on my desk as a reminder that maybe the department who keep the
compressors, pumps, wirewrap machines etc
running was not a way to save money.
Exact details somewhat fuzzy since this was like 1976
-pete
On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 6:33 AM, Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Another thing to watch out for is the two halves of some if not all
were screwed together with self tapping screws.
When you take
them apart bit of plastic may come out of the holes or fall off the
insides of the screw threads. That plastic if gets between the platter
and head will not be to the heads advantage.
Ah, oh.... How should that get between the heads and the platter? It's
nearly impossible to get something of substantial size into that gap.
Look at the RK05 manual (and pack bag): It's the *really* small stuff that
gets into the wrong place.
Normal dust from the paper you used for cleaning (and from your working
environment) is kicked off the platter by the head. Makes funny sounds.
My procedure: Clean the disk, load it, manually visit the whole surface
with the heads. If it crashes or clinging does not go away soon, reclean.
If the disk has become silent and is running nicely, I give the heads a
"quick brutal cleaning": Towel with IPA, between the heads, load heads onto
the towel, move towel until heads clean. Must be done carefully...
I once had an RC05 disk crashing. With an awful noise and a white stripe
on the disk. After cleaning, both heads and disks were fully functional
again. But I have also seen packs which look perfect but either keep making
heavy sound or having data errors.
Philipp
5 Jan
5 Jan
7:23 a.m.
On Jan 5, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Pete Turnbull <pete at
dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 05/01/2017 13:22, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I recognized "burning spirit" by its Dutch analog, and yes, it means denatured
ethanol.
I would suggest avoiding these blends of random chemicals made with no real concern for
purity. You need a liquid here that will evaporate cleanly, leaving behind neither oily
residue nor solids. I see no reason to believe that denatured alcohol or rubbing alcohol
are made to those standards.
paul
From:
Klemens Krause
> We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with cheap burning spirit
> and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
> head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this torture. First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I
assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
I'm sure it's not ! :-) He'll mean the sort of alcohol used in a spirit
burner. The UK equivalent is "methylated spirit" - primarily ethanol but with a
(un)healthy dose of methanol to make it unfit to drink (and hence exempt from excise duty)
plus pyridine (and small amounts of other things) to give it an unpleasant taste and
odour, and some methyl purple dye to make it obvious at a glance. Denatured alcohol, in
other words. I don't think the German (EU) version has the dye although it does
contain IPA and MEK. For cleaning, because of that dye, isopropyl alcohol (IPA,
isopropanol) is often a better choice in the UK.
In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is mostly denatured ethanol (though
"isopropyl rubbing alcohol" is mostly IPA), but always contains other chemicals
as well. Either should do for cleaning a disk. 
7:49 a.m.
91% IPA works fine.
99% is better though i'm skeptical it really is
https://www.quora.com/When-is-70-isopropyl-rubbing-alcohol-better-than-91
> In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is mostly
denatured ethanol (though "isopropyl rubbing alcohol" is mostly IPA), but always
contains other chemicals as well.
https://www.lewisu.edu/academics/biology/pdf/isopropanol_91.pdf
IPA
Water
7:51 a.m.
My error did mean to say 90% just got a bit too wound up with so many
suggestions that could destroy the coating.
On Jan 5, 2017 7:49 AM, "Al Kossow" <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
91% IPA works fine.
99% is better though i'm skeptical it really is
https://www.quora.com/When-is-70-isopropyl-rubbing-alcohol-better-than-91
> In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is
mostly denatured ethanol (though
"isopropyl rubbing alcohol" is mostly
IPA), but always contains other
chemicals as well.
https://www.lewisu.edu/academics/biology/pdf/isopropanol_91.pdf
IPA
Water
7:56 a.m.
> In the US, "rubbing alcohol" is mostly
denatured ethanol (though "isopropyl$
Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a bottle of "rubbing
alcohol" that was anything but isopropanol-and-water. But I'm more
Canadian than US.
I would suggest avoiding these blends of random
chemicals made with no real $
Or, more precisely, with _different_ concern for purity. For rubbing
alcohol you want to avoid biologically active contaminants, but
dissolved solids per se don't matter. Here, you care about dissolved
solids but don't much care about things that might be biologically
active, as long as they evaporate without residue.
Which leads me to tentatively suggest gasoline (West Pondian) / petrol
(East Pondian), since it seems to me that will go to some lengths to
avoid fouling engines with residues. And it's available pretty much
universally, and relatively cheaply.
Or am I wrong about it not leaving even trace residues?
Of course, anyone with distillation equipment could distil any of these
to get something with less residue. But not everyone has chem-lab
glassware.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:07 a.m.
The cleaning procedure in the laboratory I used to work in for removing
organics from silicon wafers was typically acetone, then isopropanol, then
ethanol, then a deionized water rinse and nitrogen dry. We did use piranha
solution on occasion when it was particularly caked on (like really old
photoresist). When I cleaned an ST-4051 in the lab, I skipped the acetone.
That worked quite well; the drive worked just fine after that (and a
low-level format).
Kyle
8:11 a.m.
The method I use for RL02 packs (not sure if similar), is:
- remove platter from pack
- rinse it down with tap water
- apply some Simple Green to a microfiber cloth
- wipe the entire platter with that cloth
- rinse by wiping with a 2nd cloth wet with distilled water
- let dry 24 hours
John
8:59 a.m.
On 5 January 2017 at 17:11, js at cimmeri.com <js at cimmeri.com> wrote:
- apply some Simple Green to a microfiber cloth
I may be the odd one out here, but what on Earth is "Simple Green?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZFuKHXa7w
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
9:04 a.m.
On 1/5/2017 11:59 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 5 January 2017 at 17:11, js at cimmeri.com<js at
cimmeri.com> wrote:
Ever heard of Soylent Green? Same
stuff, but with more water added. :)
- J.
- apply some Simple Green to a microfiber cloth
I may be the odd one out here, but what on Earth is "Simple Green?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZFuKHXa7w
9:21 a.m.
http://simplegreen.com/downloads/SDS_EN-US_SimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf
not something I would think of using on a disk surface
On 1/5/17 8:59 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 5 January 2017 at 17:11, js at cimmeri.com <js
at cimmeri.com> wrote:
- apply some Simple Green to a microfiber cloth
I may be the odd one out here, but what on Earth is "Simple Green?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZFuKHXa7w
9:22 a.m.
It's very mild and has been aluminum
safe for me (think, aluminum wheels on
cars).
As Allison taught me, the oxide surface
on platters / drums is just a form of
inactive RUST.. and therefore,
unaffected by water (no, the water
doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
- J.
On 1/5/2017 12:21 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
http://simplegreen.com/downloads/SDS_EN-US_SimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf
not something I would think of using on a disk surface
On 1/5/17 8:59 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 5 January 2017 at 17:11, js at
cimmeri.com<js at cimmeri.com> wrote:
- apply some Simple Green to a microfiber cloth
I may be the odd one out here, but what on Earth is "Simple Green?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZFuKHXa7w
9:30 a.m.
On 1/5/17 9:22 AM, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
As Allison taught me, the oxide surface on platters /
drums is just a form of inactive RUST.. and therefore, unaffected
by water (no, the water doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
The interface between the aluminum platter and the steel sector ring
would be a really bad thing to get water into.
9:47 a.m.
On 1/5/2017 12:30 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/5/17 9:22 AM, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Yeah, if you let it sit there long
enough, but wiped dry (and let to sit to
dry further), it's not going anywhere.
- J.
As Allison taught me, the oxide surface on
platters / drums is just a form of inactive RUST.. and therefore, unaffected
by water (no, the water doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
The interface between the aluminum platter and the steel sector ring
would be a really bad thing to get water into.
10:07 a.m.
On 1/5/17 12:30 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/5/17 9:22 AM, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Simple Green is a earth safe (Eco)
detergent with a PH of 8.5 to 9.5.
Safe for many things
as a mild great and organic residue remover. Used that or Woolite for
washing aluminum
aircraft for decades.
Water is not the hazard, allowing it to remain without drying is as it
promotes corrosion.
Pure water (non-ionic) is mostly inactive.
FYI: Decades ago I used to do radio repair for the maritime set and a
salt dunked radio
that was still dripping from its dunking in salt water was immediately
without prejudice
immersed in clean water. It was then again immersed in new fresh clean
water. The goal
was to remove the salt and then DRY (in a 160 degree Fahrenheit oven)
the unit before
active corrosion could take over. It was usually successful if the unit
hadn't remained
submerged for more than a few hours or allowed to sit around for more
than a few
hours as if it it electrolytic corrosion from dissimilar metals would
take over and kill it.
It was also effective on intermittent marine gear that had gotten flaky
As Allison taught me, the oxide surface on
platters / drums is just a form of inactive RUST.. and therefore, unaffected
by water (no, the water doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
The interface between the aluminum platter and the steel sector ring
would be a really bad thing to get water into. from salt tracking
on the board over time.
Allison
10:12 a.m.
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 1/5/17 9:22 AM, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
I seem to remember that at least some RK05 packs have a piece of foam inside the
hub (no idea what for, and it doesn't seem to be the Evil Foam that
turns to dust
or gunge). Get that soaked with water and you will have some interesting effects
when you spin up!
-tony
As Allison taught me, the oxide surface on
platters / drums is just a form of inactive RUST.. and therefore, unaffected
by water (no, the water doesn't cause it to start rusting further).
The interface between the aluminum platter and the steel sector ring
would be a really bad thing to get water into.
3:24 p.m.
On 01/05/2017 12:22 PM, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
It's very mild and has been aluminum safe for me (think, aluminum
wheels on cars).
This question of whether Simple Green was aluminum safe came up in the
aircraft world a few years back and the answer turned out to be that
some ingredient in there is mildly corrosive to aluminum. Not badly so
and if you managed to flush it off with water then no problem but if a
bit of cleaner were to weep into a crack and not get get cleaned off
then over time it might be a problem. Not too long after that Simple
Green came out with a new formulation, Simple Green Extreme or something
like that, that *was* aluminum safe. So look for the Simple Green
that's sold for cleaning airplanes if you're cleaning around aluminum.
Dave
4:15 p.m.
On 01/05/2017 03:24 PM, David Bridgham wrote:
This question of whether Simple Green was aluminum
safe came up in
the aircraft world a few years back and the answer turned out to be
that some ingredient in there is mildly corrosive to aluminum. Not
badly so and if you managed to flush it off with water then no
problem but if a bit of cleaner were to weep into a crack and not get
get cleaned off then over time it might be a problem. Not too long
after that Simple Green came out with a new formulation, Simple Green
Extreme or something like that, that *was* aluminum safe. So look
for the Simple Green that's sold for cleaning airplanes if you're
cleaning around aluminum.
Freon TF works well on everything. Too bad it's not available.
Is it still used for aircraft electronics?
--Chuck
5:13 p.m.
On 01/05/2017 07:15 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 01/05/2017 03:24 PM, David Bridgham wrote:
> This question of whether Simple Green was aluminum safe came up in
> the aircraft world a few years back and the answer turned out to be
> that some ingredient in there is mildly corrosive to aluminum. Not
> badly so and if you managed to flush it off with water then no
> problem but if a bit of cleaner were to weep into a crack and not get
> get cleaned off then over time it might be a problem. Not too long
> after that Simple Green came out with a new formulation, Simple Green
> Extreme or something like that, that *was* aluminum safe. So look
> for the Simple Green that's sold for cleaning airplanes if you're
> cleaning around aluminum.
Lots of ifs, mights, and maybes. My knowledge is
from actually owning
and maintaining a Cessna since 1979 and so far that has not been an issue.
FYI often cleaning the bird is good no matter what you use as salt spray
and
other things it can be exposed to are far worse. Like acid rain and soot
from fires.
Freon TF works well on everything. Too bad it's not available.
Is it still used for aircraft electronics?
No its been obsoleted. There are many other similar but not fluorinated
hydrocarbons that are preferred and also good old soap and water.
Allison
--Chuck
10:44 p.m.
On 01/05/2017 05:13 PM, allison wrote:
No, it's been banned. "Obsoleted" to me carries the implication that
there's something better. TF was banned under the Montreal Protocol not
for its toxicity, but for the ozone-depletion characteristic of the
stuff when it was released into the atmosphere. Same goes for most
chlorinated refrigerants.
HCFC-225 had been an adequate substitute, but that was phased out in
2015. Too bad--it was almost as good as a cleaner.
Techspray (and NASA and a bunch of other outfits) have proposed some
possible alternatives;
https://www.techspray.com/t-ak225ban.aspx
If these were my packs, I'd drop them a line and see what they recommend
for the specific application.
FWIW, I buy my denatured ethanol from the paint store--it's about as
water-free as it's possible to get, usually with some methanol commonly
added as a denaturing agent, although other substances can be used.
This was a practice started in 1906 so that manufacturers could be
exempted from alcohol taxation.
During Prohibition, the government, responding to a higher moral
standard, reformulated the denaturing agents, making them even more
lethal. The result was dramatic--in 1928, 700 people died in New York
alone from consumption of industrial alcohol. Oddly, the 18th amendment
only forbade manufacture, sale and transportation of alcohol.
Consumption was still perfectly legal.
Paint-store alcohol is free of water because it's commonly used as a
shellac solvent/carrier. Any appreciable amount of water results in a
cloudy finish.
FWIW,
Chuck
Freon TF works
well on everything. Too bad it's not available.
Is it still used for aircraft electronics?
No its been obsoleted. There are many
other similar but not
fluorinated hydrocarbons that are preferred and also good old soap
and water.
6 Jan
6 Jan
4:32 a.m.
On 01/05/2017 08:13 PM, allison wrote:
Lots of ifs, mights, and maybes. My knowledge is
from actually owning
and maintaining a Cessna since 1979 and so far that has not been an issue.
Yup, that's just how the discussion in the aircraft community went. One
group would point out that Simple Green contained chemicals known to
corrode aluminum while another group would say they'd been using the
stuff on their airplanes and hadn't noticed any problems. Then the
company came out with Simple Green Extreme, promoting it as being safe
for aircraft though never actually saying, as far as I saw, that the
regular Simple Green wasn't safe.
8:15 a.m.
New subject: Cleaning things (was Cleaning RK05 packs (Was: LGP-30 Memory Drum Update))
On 01/06/2017 07:32 AM, David Bridgham wrote:
On 01/05/2017 08:13 PM, allison wrote:
I see that as the maker responded to a perceived problem and did their
marketing!
The bottom line is its seriously off topic and likely not an issue.
To get on topic over the years I've used a number of things deemed bad
with full success.
An example was a few Altair era board with green crud plus dirt from the
prior holder storing them.
The green crud was the gold over copper plated contacts without nickel
over copper. I decided
to keep them and ran them through the dishwasher with the usual
dishwasher caustic cleaner
(cascade) and the oven dry them. They came out looking better than
factory and it even cleaned
the contacts. They tested fine and I stripped the damaged gold and
re-plated the contacts with
electroless tin (didn't have the materials for nickel then gold) and
sill have them. Back then the
locals on the board told me the boards would be ruined.
When doing repairs or restoration the person/organization doing it needs
to fist have goals, then
process, and the skills to implement them and maybe even mitigate side
effects. What process
they use and can apply is dependent on available materials and the
available skills. Our advantage
now is is world wide near instant communication to ask what is best,
easy, fast, or cheap.
I envy the chance to restore a LGP-30 or for that fact play with one.
Many of the things I remember
mid sixties on are now gone or were rare then. Like small desk sized
drum computers using transistors
or first generation IC (RTL and RDTL).
Allison
Lots of ifs, mights, and maybes. My knowledge
is from actually owning
and maintaining a Cessna since 1979 and so far that has not been an issue.
Yup,
that's just how the discussion in the aircraft community went. One
group would point out that Simple Green contained chemicals known to
corrode aluminum while another group would say they'd been using the
stuff on their airplanes and hadn't noticed any problems. Then the
company came out with Simple Green Extreme, promoting it as being safe
for aircraft though never actually saying, as far as I saw, that the
regular Simple Green wasn't safe.
5 Jan
5 Jan
9:47 a.m.
On 1/5/17 10:56 AM, Mouse wrote:
Many are possible in the local apothecary (aka drug store in
local lingo).
ISO70% + water
ISO91% + water
Ethanol (denatured)+ water
Then there are products with oil of wintergreen (green color) and other
additives
and are identified on label.
Generally there are no solids in
the first three and are safe for
cleaning gear
is the materials are not affected by the alcohol in use.
> In the US,
"rubbing alcohol" is mostly denatured ethanol (though "isopropyl$
Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a bottle of "rubbing
alcohol" that was anything but isopropanol-and-water. But I'm more
Canadian than US. I would
suggest avoiding these blends of random chemicals made with no real $
Or, more
precisely, with _different_ concern for purity. For rubbing
alcohol you want to avoid biologically active contaminants, but
dissolved solids per se don't matter. Here, you care about dissolved
solids but don't much care about things that might be biologically
active, as long as they evaporate without residue. Which leads me to tentatively suggest gasoline (West
Pondian) / petrol
(East Pondian), since it seems to me that will go to some lengths to
avoid fouling engines with residues. And it's available pretty much
universally, and relatively cheaply.
NO! Highly flammable and contains a laundry
list of things. Good
enough for cleaning
an engine of oil (with great care). Oddly Kerosene (aka paraffin) can
be had as (K1 crystal)
highly refined. Again it can acquire impurities from the source but can
also be purchased
in small containers for camp stoves and lamps.
Or am I wrong about it not leaving even trace
residues?
There is what was called "white gas" that was pure petrol
extracts
without additives.
These days if you see it its for camp stoves and lights and not cheap.
Of course, anyone with distillation equipment could
distil any of these
to get something with less residue. But not everyone has chem-lab
glassware.
Or the temperature controls to not render unsafe(highly flammable)
lighter gasses
Allison
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
6:40 a.m.
isopropyl alcohol works. TFE is better, if you have some stashed.
If you can find them anywhere, Texwipe made a plastic wand that looks like
a tongue depressor with a slit down the middle and a lint free sleeve
called the Texsleeve (tx300 sleeve, tx800 wand) that you would use to clean heads
Minor head crashes leave a tar-like residue that you need to remove. A pack inspector
is a handy thing to have (spinle with microscope and illuminator on the rack and pinion)
to look for surface damage.
On 1/5/17 5:22 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
From: Klemens
Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
Noel
2:18 p.m.
"A pack inspector is a handy thing to have (spinle with microscope and
illuminator on the rack and pinion)"
Can you post a picture of this critter? Is it something we could 3D print?
Thanks,
Marc
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
isopropyl alcohol works. TFE is better, if you have
some stashed.
If you can find them anywhere, Texwipe made a plastic wand that looks like
a tongue depressor with a slit down the middle and a lint free sleeve
called the Texsleeve (tx300 sleeve, tx800 wand) that you would use to
clean heads
Minor head crashes leave a tar-like residue that you need to remove. A
pack inspector
is a handy thing to have (spinle with microscope and illuminator on the
rack and pinion)
to look for surface damage.
On 1/5/17 5:22 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
spirit
From:
Klemens Krause
> We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way: with cheap burning > and paper towels. ... We rubbed away
thick black traces from
occasional
> head crashes and we never removed the
oxide coating with this
torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After
poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no
little by the fact that it's
the
name of a band, and also a term in World of
Warcraft :-), it seems like
it
might be acetone?
Noel
6 Jan
6 Jan
1:13 a.m.
We use 6"x6" clean room rated wipes (I think they were either Berkshires or
Kimwipes) from Grainger and 99% isopropyl alcohol from Fry's. Won't scratch, free
of microscopic dust and lint, and 99% alcohol will leave no drying marks (it's
typically the last rinse in IC manufacturing). May cost you a bit. Wipe your work area
before and use clean room gloves.
Marc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 5, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Al Kossow <aek at
bitsavers.org> wrote:
isopropyl alcohol works. TFE is better, if you have some stashed.
If you can find them anywhere, Texwipe made a plastic wand that looks like
a tongue depressor with a slit down the middle and a lint free sleeve
called the Texsleeve (tx300 sleeve, tx800 wand) that you would use to clean heads
Minor head crashes leave a tar-like residue that you need to remove. A pack inspector
is a handy thing to have (spinle with microscope and illuminator on the rack and pinion)
to look for surface damage.
On 1/5/17 5:22 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
From:
Klemens Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
Noel
11:59 p.m.
Here is the exact reference for the clean room wipes:
Berkshire DURX 670
Item #: DR670.0404.10
4"x4" (10cm x10 cm)
Non-woven Polyester/Cellulose
And isopropyl alcohol we use is 99.9%, not just 99 as I said.
Marc
-----Original Message-----
We use 6"x6" clean room rated wipes (I think they were either Berkshires or
Kimwipes) from Grainger and 99% isopropyl alcohol from Fry's. Won't scratch,
free of microscopic dust and lint, and 99% alcohol will leave no drying
marks (it's typically the last rinse in IC manufacturing). May cost you a
bit. Wipe your work area before and use clean room gloves.
Marc
On Jan 5, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Al Kossow <aek at
bitsavers.org> wrote:
isopropyl alcohol works. TFE is better, if you have some stashed.
If you can find them anywhere, Texwipe made a plastic wand that looks
like a tongue depressor with a slit down the middle and a lint free
sleeve called the Texsleeve (tx300 sleeve, tx800 wand) that you would
use to clean heads
Minor head crashes leave a tar-like residue that you need to remove. A
pack inspector is a handy thing to have (spinle with microscope and
illuminator on the rack and pinion) to look for surface damage.
5 Jan
5 Jan
8:48 a.m.
The method I've used very successfully for unknown packs is:
1) I first mount the pack in a drive that has a good absolute filter,
and has had the head load disabled, and spin it for a few hours. If the
pack shows any sign of excessive vibration, it is probably no good or
requires more serious attention. This process moves a bunch of air
through the pack, removing any loose dust.
2) I then take the pack apart, in a relatively dust-free space. Inspect
the platter for any obvious damage that may make it unusable, such as
warping, mis-centered on hub (caused by being dropped), divots in the
platter surface or signs of serious head crash(e.g., oxide gone). I
set the platter assembly on a lint-free cloth and cover with another
lint free cloth.
3) I first use a vacuum cleaner with a light brush attachment to vacuum
loose dust out of the pack case. Then I use a sink with a sprayer head
and warm soapy water to thoroughly clean the plastic parts of the disk
pack, and rinse thoroughly with clear water. I use dried compressed air
to blow out all the moisture, and then set the pack parts aside on a
lint-free cloth to dry out thoroughly, usually for 24 hours
4) I use 3M LCD monitor cleaning pads (which are lint-free by nature) to
wipe the platter surfaces to remove excess oxide and remaining dust. I
use a light pressure. Any areas that are clearly discolored get extra
treatment. I wipe in a circular (spiral) motion from the hub outward to
the edge of the platters. It's a little tedious from a handling
perspective, juggling the platter with one hand, and managing the wiping
with the other. I end up using quite a few of the wipes, as they get
dirty pretty fast.
5) I use a bright flashlight to spot any remaining dust and canned air
to dislodge any that I find. If air doesn't work, then I use more wipes
to remove any that I can see.
6) Once over with canned air to blow off any remaining dust.
7) Quickly reassemble the patter into the pack casing
8) Spin the pack again for a few hours with no head load.
9) Cross fingers, put in a "live" drive, spin it up, and hope for no bad
noises.
Based on Klemens' method, this is probably being overly cautious, but
it's worked well for me.
Rick Bensene
6 Jan
6 Jan
10:27 a.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
Rick Bensene <rickb at bensene.com> wrote:
1) I first mount the pack in a drive that has a good
absolute filter, and
has
had the head load disabled, and spin it for a few
hours.
Speaking of spinning up a pack without loading the heads, can anyone tell
me how to do this on an RL01/2 drive?
Thanks,
Bob Armstrong
5:25 p.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
On Jan 6, 2017, at 1:27 PM, Robert Armstrong <bob
at jfcl.com> wrote:
I don't know a specific answer, but one would think unplugging the power to the head
actuator coils would do the job.
paul
Rick Bensene <rickb at bensene.com> wrote:
1) I first mount the pack in a drive that has a
good absolute filter, and
has
had the head load disabled, and spin it for a few
hours.
Speaking of spinning up a pack without loading the heads, can anyone tell
me how to do this on an RL01/2 drive?
8:08 p.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
one would think unplugging the power to the head actuator coils ...
One might think that, and that plan works for an RK05, but an RL02 is
smarter. Unless the heads go on cylinder within a few seconds of the head
load signal, the drive logic just faults and spins down again. Not very
useful... What's needed is a way to stall or fake out the drive startup
state machine logic.
Bob
7 Jan
7 Jan
1:42 a.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
On 07/01/2017 04:08, Robert Armstrong w#rote:
I haven't done this for a while, but I think it might work if you also
disable the SK TO (Seek Timeout) signal on the main logic board, and
maybe also POS SIG (Position Signal).
There are several setup and adjustment procedures that require one to
move the heads by hand, including right back onto the loading ramp.
You'd do this with the cover open, the logic board swung up and resting
on its clip at the back of the drive, and with the amplifier box turned
to a vertical position sitting on its right-hand supports. The
procedures require the above signals to be disabled, and the servo drive
(the single inline connector under the amplifier box) to be
disconnected. However, they all start by pressing LOAD and allowing the
heads to load at least as far as the loading area at the outside edge of
the disk before disconnecting the servo drive; I can't remember if the
heads actually go beyond that into the area where the data tracks are.
How you disable the signals depends on the version of the main logic
board - there are three different types, all described in the pocket
service guide.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
Paul Koning
<paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
one would think unplugging the power to the head actuator coils ...
One might think that, and that plan works for an RK05, but an RL02 is
smarter. Unless the heads go on cylinder within a few seconds of the head
load signal, the drive logic just faults and spins down again. Not very
useful... What's needed is a way to stall or fake out the drive startup
state machine logic. 
8:44 a.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
On Jan 7, 2017, at 3:42 AM, Pete Turnbull <pete at
dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 07/01/2017 04:08, Robert Armstrong w#rote:
I haven't done this for a while, but I think it might work if you also disable the SK
TO (Seek Timeout) signal on the main logic board, and maybe also POS SIG (Position
Signal).
There are several setup and adjustment procedures that require one to move the heads by
hand, including right back onto the loading ramp. You'd do this with the cover open,
the logic board swung up and resting on its clip at the back of the drive, and with the
amplifier box turned to a vertical position sitting on its right-hand supports. The
procedures require the above signals to be disabled, and the servo drive (the single
inline connector under the amplifier box) to be disconnected. However, they all start by
pressing LOAD and allowing the heads to load at least as far as the loading area at the
outside edge of the disk before disconnecting the servo drive; I can't remember if the
heads actually go beyond that into the area where the data tracks are.
How you disable the signals depends on the version of the main logic board - there are
three different types, all described in the pocket service guide.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
What is the best way to approach evaluating old RL02 Packs for cleaning? Does anyone have
experience opening up all the little plastic tabs on the covers?
I have a large stash of RL02?s that I had planned to backup. I was planning on just
doing a visual inspection on each before loading.
The only disassembly information I have found uses the proverbial hammer -
http://williambader.com/museum/vax/43rl02topremoval.jpg
<http://williambader.com/museum/vax/43rl02topremoval.jpg>
Jerry
Paul
Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
one would think unplugging the power to the head actuator coils ...
One might think that, and that plan works for an RK05, but an RL02 is
smarter. Unless the heads go on cylinder within a few seconds of the head
load signal, the drive logic just faults and spins down again. Not very
useful... What's needed is a way to stall or fake out the drive startup
state machine logic. 
9:29 a.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
On 1/7/2017 11:44 AM, Jerry Weiss wrote:
What is the best way to approach evaluating old RL02
Packs for
cleaning? Does anyone have experience opening up all the little
plastic tabs on the covers? I have a large stash of RL02?s that I had
planned to backup. I was planning on just doing a visual inspection on
each before loading. The only disassembly information I have found
uses the proverbial hammer -
http://williambader.com/museum/vax/43rl02topremoval.jpg
<http://williambader.com/museum/vax/43rl02topremoval.jpg> Jerry
With mine, in a darkened room, I shone a flashlight in perpendicularly
to reveal what debris was on the platter surface. In all cases of the
few packs I had to process, there was a light coating of dust on the
platters, so I disassembled the pack and washed as previously posted.
For me, they had to be dust free before use.
They were not hard to diassemble, but there was a trick to the handle
part (which I forget).
- J.
10:01 a.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
On 07/01/2017 16:44, Jerry Weiss wrote:
What is the best way to approach evaluating old RL02
Packs for
cleaning? Does anyone have experience opening up all the little
plastic tabs on the covers? I have a large stash of RL02?s that I had
planned to backup. I was planning on just doing a visual inspection
on each before loading.
That part is easy. Turn it upside down, and for each of the tabs,
insert a small (1/4") flat-blade screwdriver into the rectangular hole
by each tab, turn it so that the side moves away from the bottom cover
sufficiently, then slip a smaller screwdriver into the gap between the
side and the bottom cover, and lever it up slightly. Repeat until you
have all the tabs undone and the bottom cover lifts off.
That lets you at the lower surface. I can't remember how to take the
platter out; IIRC it involves dong something to the cover on the handle.
I just use a torch to look at it, through the side.
I wouldn't worry about a little fine dust. It's not an RK05 and they're
very robust. I once had one make a wierd noise when spun up - the
"ting" did sound a little like an RK05 head crash. It turned out a
spider had decided it was a good warm dry place to live, but all I had
to do was clean the rest of the spider off the head.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
10:22 a.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
On 07/01/2017 18:01, Pete Turnbull wrote:
That part is easy. Turn it upside down, and for each
of the tabs,
insert a small (1/4") flat-blade screwdriver into the rectangular hole
by each tab, turn it so that the side moves away from the bottom cover
sufficiently, then slip a smaller screwdriver into the gap between the
side and the bottom cover, and lever it up slightly. Repeat until you
have all the tabs undone and the bottom cover lifts off.
That lets you at the lower surface. I can't remember how to take the
platter out; IIRC it involves dong something to the cover on the handle.
I just use a torch to look at it, through the side.
A little refresher (experimentation) later...
Take the cover (the part with the slide) off the handle. Inside you'll
see a white bar with two inset steel pins that hold the hooks that hold
the platter hub. The handle pivots on plastic parts at each side; take
them out. That lets you slide the whole handle, when it's in the down
position, about 1/4" towards the edge. Do that, making sure the white
plastic bar moves with the handle, and it will release the pins from the
hooks and the platter will fall out (so do this with it resting on a
safe surface - NOT in the lid, or the hub's magnets will stick it to the
lid).
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
6 Jan
6 Jan
9:46 p.m.
New subject: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 6:27 PM, Robert Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
Speaking of spinning up a pack without loading the
heads, can anyone tell
me how to do this on an RL01/2 drive?
I am pretty sure you unplug the positioner motor from the DC power supply
PCB. You have to remove the latter (4 corner screws and a plastic cover
that identifies the testpoints) and it's a 2 pin plug on the underside
(component side) of the board.
-tony
1 Apr
1 Apr
2:01 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning RK05 packs
On Jan 5, 2017, at 8:48 AM, Rick Bensene <rickb at
bensene.com> wrote:
The method I've used very successfully for unknown packs is:
1) I first mount the pack in a drive that has a good absolute filter,
and has had the head load disabled, and spin it for a few hours.
I?m getting to the point in my RK05 restore where I?m about ready to try spinning up a
pack so I can work through the various offline dynamic checks. I have a pretty clean
looking pack to start with (has been stored in plastic bag, etc) that doesn?t have any
particularly valuable data (just an RKDP backup, according to the label, and I have the
original as well). But I thought it?d be prudent to give it a clean first anyway just in
case.
In step one of the process quoted above, is it enough to put the toggle on the servo amp
board in the down position to disable head load? Or is it best to disable head load in
some other way (e.g. jumpers on the backplane, or disconnecting any particular cables?)
thanks!
?FritzM.
2:53 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning RK05 packs
BTW, have you replaced the emergency head retract batteries and/or allowed
them to reach full charge?
Marc
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Jan 5, 2017, at 8:48 AM, Rick Bensene
<rickb at bensene.com> wrote:
The method I've used very successfully for unknown packs is:
1) I first mount the pack in a drive that has a good absolute filter,
and has had the head load disabled, and spin it for a few hours.
I?m getting to the point in my RK05 restore where I?m about ready to try
spinning up a pack so I can work through the various offline dynamic
checks. I have a pretty clean looking pack to start with (has been stored
in plastic bag, etc) that doesn?t have any particularly valuable data (just
an RKDP backup, according to the label, and I have the original as well).
But I thought it?d be prudent to give it a clean first anyway just in case.
In step one of the process quoted above, is it enough to put the toggle on
the servo amp board in the down position to disable head load? Or is it
best to disable head load in some other way (e.g. jumpers on the backplane,
or disconnecting any particular cables?)
thanks!
?FritzM.
3:23 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning RK05 packs
On Apr 1, 2017, at 2:53 PM, Marc Howard <cramcram
at gmail.com> wrote:
BTW, have you replaced the emergency head retract batteries and/or allowed them to reach
full charge?
Yes, have done replacement. Haven?t put a charge on them yet, but figured running the
drive for a couple hours with disabled head load I could de-dust my first candidate pack
while simultaneously charging the batteries.
cheers,
?FritzM.
2 Apr
2 Apr
6 p.m.
New subject: Cleaning RK05 packs
The first two packs I opened up for cleaning had foam around the inside of the hub. If it
is decaying like the rest of the foam DEC used this seems like it could be a problem
inside the packs?
I haven?t seen this discussed before in any of the RK05 pack cleaning threads. Do folks
usually leave this be, or remove it?
cheers,
?FritzM.
5 Jan
5 Jan
9:05 a.m.
On 01/05/2017 07:22 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I'd be very careful with acetone, it tends to dissolve a lot
of things, like maybe the binder in the coating.
Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) and pure ethanol are the things
I've seen used to clean magnetic media.
if there is a spot that is not actually used (maybe other
parts of the gouged tracks) you could test various solvents
with a Q-tip to make sure they don't cause damage.
Jon
From: Klemens
Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
9:38 a.m.
>you could test various solvents with a Q-tip to
make sure they don't cause damage.
And a week later after the binder had decomposed what are you going to do ?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 01/05/2017 07:22 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I'd be very careful with acetone, it tends to dissolve a lot of things, like
maybe the binder in the coating.
Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) and pure ethanol are the things I've seen used
to clean magnetic media.
if there is a spot that is not actually used (maybe other parts of the
gouged tracks) you could test various solvents with a Q-tip to make sure
they don't cause damage.
Jon
From: Klemens Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning
spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black
traces from
occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide
coating with this
torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After
poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's
the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
10:21 p.m.
On 01/05/2017 11:38 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
That's why you test in a non-critical area, and then let it
sit for a while to make sure it doesn't cause slow
deterioration. And, of course, with a general idea of the
material (plated nickel vs. oxide/epoxy) you can select
solvents that are known to not attack that material.
Jon
> you could
test various solvents with a Q-tip to make sure they don't cause damage.
And a
week later after the binder had decomposed what are you going to do ?
3:49 p.m.
On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 08:22:05 -0500 (EST)
jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) wrote:
I'm sure I've discussed cleaning packs on this list before, but here
goes again :)
I've cleaned a LOT of RL02 and RK05 packs. Both are relatively easy to
clean, but patience is definitely a virtue.
1) I clean the external surface of the pack with a damp cloth to
eliminate dirt and dust. Then I dry off any dampness with a clean, dry
cloth.
2) I open (unscrew or unclip depending on the model) the pack and
carefully set the screws (if any) in a clean (dust free) plastic box.
3) I examine the pack surface for crashes - and if there are visible
"hits" or "groves" in the pack, I discard it immediately.
4) Assuming the surface is good, I then use Lint Free Professional
Swabs saturated with Pure Anhydrous Isopropyl Alcohol (99.953% pure) to
clean the entire surface of the disk.
5) If there are any dirt buildup spots (NOT the result of a crash), I
use Lint Free Professional Chamois Swabs, saturated with the above
Alcohol, to gently clean up the spot. BTW, in my experience, this step
is rarely required.
6) After cleaning, I use a Lint Free Texwipe to GENTLY clean the entire
surface of any dust or other particulate.
6) I then clean all of the internal casing using Texwipe and the
above alcohol.
7) I re-assemble the disk and examine it for any dust particles with a
bright LED flashlight. If there are any visible dust particles, I use a
filtered air supply to blow away the dust.
NOTE: When replacing screws in packs, be super careful not to tighten
the screws too hard. Tightening too much can strip the plastic threads
and introduce plastic particulate on to the disk.
I've cleaned over 40 RL0x and RK05 packs using this method - and all
have subsequently worked perfectly.
NOTE: All of the above products are available online or at any
electronic supply house. The Pure Anhydrous Isopropyl Alcohol on the
container says: "For cleaning fiber optics, semi-conductors, contacts,
magnetic tape, medical equipment and other electronic devices. Zero
residue". Cost here in Silicon Valley is about $8 for 1 Litre.
Lyle
--
73 AF6WS
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
From: Klemens
Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap
burning spirit and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black
traces from occasional head crashes and we never removed the
oxide coating with this torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in
the details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight
translation into English of some German term, but not knowing
German... :-) After poking around with Google for a while (hampered
no little by the fact that it's the name of a band, and also a term
in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it might be acetone?
3 Apr
3 Apr
6:37 a.m.
On 01/05/2017 02:22 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
In Germany, "burning spirit" is 96% ethanol + something that tastes
awfully + some water. No other kinds of alcohol involved as far as I
know. Some people are able to remove the awful taste in the lab.
I usually use 100% IPA to wash my RK05 packs...
I don't let acetone get near my stuff. It probably will remove the
laquer. Nice prep if you want to apply a new coating to your disk.
I do it like Klemens: Scrub, scrub, scrub. The black spots MUST be
removed. Important not to lay the disk onto a hard or somehow grain
contaminated surface while scrubbing.
BTW: The RK05 manual explicitly warns from WATER on the disks. You
should not spit (i.e. blow!) onto the surfaces as water is said to
dissolve the coating.
Philipp
From: Klemens
Krause
We clean our RK05 disks in a very robust way:
with cheap burning spirit
and paper towels. ... We rubbed away thick black traces from occasional
head crashes and we never removed the oxide coating with this torture.
I am about to get a large batch of RK05 packs, so I am interested in the
details of this.
First, what is 'burning spirit'? (I assume this is a straight translation
into English of some German term, but not knowing German... :-) After poking
around with Google for a while (hampered no little by the fact that it's the
name of a band, and also a term in World of Warcraft :-), it seems like it
might be acetone?
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