11 May
2009
11 May
'09
2:22 a.m.
---------------Original Message:
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:22 -0400
From: Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org>
Subject: Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?
On Sunday 10 May 2009, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Likewise, I'm starting to get tired of the sense
of entitlement and
whining behaviors you've had on display lately over when people here
don't provide you with what you need, or fast enough.
I'm not sure how you whine over an email, but I thought that the point
of mailing lists was to talk to other people, and in part to get help
on things that you don't understand or don't know.
If I posted a question here every time I hit the most
minor of snags,
I would EXPECT some people to get annoyed with me.
I'm pretty sure that not eveyone here has the same knowledge or skill
set, so what's minor to you is probably not to other people that have
no knowledge of it.
In any case, I've learned that IT people can't communicate well, and can
be a pain in the ass to deal with because we generally have bad
interpersonal skills. You can do a lot of hard work and try to please
people here, but you still get yelled at for doing a "disservice"
or "not a good enough job". Even if you work out your differences, it
wears down on you over time.
It's dumb arguments like this one that drive people like me away from
this community.
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
************************ Reply:
What dumb argument? Yes, one of the points of a list like this is to ask
for and give help, but even in this day and age concepts like "please" and
"thank you" and showing appreciation instead of complaining and taking
others and their contributions for granted still have some value.
The OP asked for information and help about 22disk and IMD and despite
the denigrating tone of his questions the authors of both of these programs
took the time to answer his questions at length and in detail, enabling him
to resolve his issues, and apparently someone on this list also took the
time to send him the TD disks that he asked for.
What are his final words on the issue? Appreciation for those people and
this list which gave him access to them?
No, now that he got what he needed from the list he tells us, "I'm getting
real, real tired of the tone on this list and will probably take a break from
any posting here. Now I'm beginning to understand why folks like Sellam left."
Not surprising; as I recall some people were also annoyed by Sellam's rude
and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to see *him* leave.
If Chuck and Dave and the person who sent the disks had the same attitude
and had left the list (and, considering the crap that Dave has had to put up
with in the past I wouldn't blame him at all) then OP would still be staring
at his 820 paperweight.
When someone suggests to OP that his negative tone and attitude might
annoy some people who might then be less eager to help him next time,
then that might be seen as an opportunity to improve those "bad interpersonal
skills" that you mention, instead of evoking a defensive response...
m
11 May
11 May
12:44 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
************************ Reply:
M H Stein wrote:
What dumb argument? Yes, one of the points of a list like this is to ask
for and give help, but even in this day and age concepts like "please" and
"thank you" and showing appreciation instead of complaining and taking
others and their contributions for granted still have some value.
The OP asked for information and help about 22disk and IMD and despite
the denigrating tone of his questions the authors of both of these programs
took the time to answer his questions at length and in detail, enabling him
to resolve his issues, and apparently someone on this list also took the
time to send him the TD disks that he asked for.
What are his final words on the issue? Appreciation for those people and
this list which gave him access to them?
No, now that he got what he needed from the list he tells us, "I'm getting
real, real tired of the tone on this list and will probably take a break from
any posting here. Now I'm beginning to understand why folks like Sellam left."
Not surprising; as I recall some people were also annoyed by Sellam's rude
and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to see *him* leave.
If Chuck and Dave and the person who sent the disks had the same attitude
and had left the list (and, considering the crap that Dave has had to put up
with in the past I wouldn't blame him at all) then OP would still be staring
at his 820 paperweight.
When someone suggests to OP that his negative tone and attitude might
annoy some people who might then be less eager to help him next time,
then that might be seen as an opportunity to improve those "bad interpersonal
skills" that you mention, instead of evoking a defensive response...
m
---------------------------
Nice to know at least one person gets what I was trying to say!
I thought that there are two CCTalk lists: CCTalk for on *and* off topic posts, and
CCTech for only on-topic posts. Therefore, I don't get why a few people have posted
or emailed me insulting and provocative messages trying to push me around about what or
what not to read and post (eg. Gordon). I only take posting orders from list moderators
or owners. I'd been following the Xerox thread as I have some knowledge about it, but
began to have reactions to how the OP Steven was utilizing the membership-at-large.
I've only posted two "reactions" emails -- the few others were either
on-topic, jokes, or explanation-of-jokes.
I'm acquainted with this OP. I typically enjoy his posts in other groups, and have
helped him out before, even once by testing video equipment he mailed to my house. So
why my reactions?
Putting aside Steve for a moment, once in awhile, I witness an OP come along and take
these mailing lists and online groups for granted.. treating the really wonderful and
astonishingly knowledgeable and smart people of these groups as *only*
"resources" to do their bidding. There are "regulars" of this kind of
behavior, and then there are those who just occasionally forget their manners due to
excitement or having a rough time in life.
Further, at these times, the "resources" are seemingly expected to drop
everything they're doing like they're some help desk, and respond ASAP for
whatever is needed since the OP's particular project is of the greatest import and
urgency. Lastly, after the OP has usually managed to guilt-induce or otherwise garnish
an incredible outpouring of help from the "resources," almost without fail the
OP then expresses little to no appreciation! What??!
Every time I witness this pattern, it amazes me. Well, I know it's not my job to
protect memberships, but dammit, if something bothers me, I don't see why I
shouldn't say something. Feedback between humans is essential for growth, period.
Here's an example: if women had never told me how incredibly stupid I was being with
them in my 20's and early 30's, I'd have never matured. I'd still be
pining away as one girlfriend after another leaves me, without knowing why. Luckily, a
few women were brave enough to slam me with the truth. It eventually hit home, I slowly
grew up, and women stopped leaving me as quickly or at all (unless I wanted them to..
lol).
Back to OP Steve. His approach (on this particular topic *only*) warranted feedback,
plain and simple. He was coming across as spoiled, impatient, humourless, and bad moody.
Not in every post. But in enough. "The real real tired of tone on list"
comment was last straw for me. A huge outpouring of help, one little comment from me
trying to encourage him to push himself a little harder, and now the TONE of this entire
list is TIRING? Well, to that implied FU, FU too!
My resultant comments, as Battle politely and privately pointed out to me, perhaps should
have been emailed privately. Maybe I goofed, or maybe the feedback has more impact if
it's public. Who knows.
If an OP is going to denigrate the whole group and pack up their toys and go home just
because ONE guy gives them a smidgeon of feedback they find unpleasant, despite the
vastly greater benefits they derived, then maybe that's just what they need to do.
It's their call whether they want to shoot themselves in the foot or not.
Human interaction IS MESSY. It's always got good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant,
elegance and sloppiness. I say, deal with it, listen to it, learn from it, be thankful
it's there at all.
jS
1:37 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
Wow, I wish I had as much time to waste complaining about pointless
issues as you guys. Then I'd actually have time to work on my
hobbies...
Pat
On Monday 11 May 2009, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
************************ Reply:
M H Stein wrote:
What dumb argument? Yes, one of the points of a list like this is to
ask for and give help, but even in this day and age concepts like
"please" and "thank you" and showing appreciation instead of
complaining and taking others and their contributions for granted
still have some value.
The OP asked for information and help about 22disk and IMD and
despite the denigrating tone of his questions the authors of both of
these programs took the time to answer his questions at length and in
detail, enabling him to resolve his issues, and apparently someone on
this list also took the time to send him the TD disks that he asked
for.
What are his final words on the issue? Appreciation for those people
and this list which gave him access to them?
No, now that he got what he needed from the list he tells us, "I'm
getting real, real tired of the tone on this list and will probably
take a break from any posting here. Now I'm beginning to understand
why folks like Sellam left."
Not surprising; as I recall some people were also annoyed by Sellam's
rude and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to
see *him* leave.
If Chuck and Dave and the person who sent the disks had the same
attitude and had left the list (and, considering the crap that Dave
has had to put up with in the past I wouldn't blame him at all) then
OP would still be staring at his 820 paperweight.
When someone suggests to OP that his negative tone and attitude might
annoy some people who might then be less eager to help him next time,
then that might be seen as an opportunity to improve those "bad
interpersonal skills" that you mention, instead of evoking a
defensive response...
m
---------------------------
Nice to know at least one person gets what I was trying to say!
I thought that there are two CCTalk lists: CCTalk for on *and* off
topic posts, and CCTech for only on-topic posts. Therefore, I don't
get why a few people have posted or emailed me insulting and
provocative messages trying to push me around about what or what not
to read and post (eg. Gordon). I only take posting orders from list
moderators or owners. I'd been following the Xerox thread as I have
some knowledge about it, but began to have reactions to how the OP
Steven was utilizing the membership-at-large. I've only posted two
"reactions" emails -- the few others were either on-topic, jokes, or
explanation-of-jokes.
I'm acquainted with this OP. I typically enjoy his posts in other
groups, and have helped him out before, even once by testing video
equipment he mailed to my house. So why my reactions?
Putting aside Steve for a moment, once in awhile, I witness an OP
come along and take these mailing lists and online groups for
granted.. treating the really wonderful and astonishingly
knowledgeable and smart people of these groups as *only* "resources"
to do their bidding. There are "regulars" of this kind of behavior,
and then there are those who just occasionally forget their manners
due to excitement or having a rough time in life.
Further, at these times, the "resources" are seemingly expected to
drop everything they're doing like they're some help desk, and
respond ASAP for whatever is needed since the OP's particular project
is of the greatest import and urgency. Lastly, after the OP has
usually managed to guilt-induce or otherwise garnish an incredible
outpouring of help from the "resources," almost without fail the OP
then expresses little to no appreciation! What??!
Every time I witness this pattern, it amazes me. Well, I know it's
not my job to protect memberships, but dammit, if something bothers
me, I don't see why I shouldn't say something. Feedback between
humans is essential for growth, period. Here's an example: if women
had never told me how incredibly stupid I was being with them in my
20's and early 30's, I'd have never matured. I'd still be pining
away as one girlfriend after another leaves me, without knowing why.
Luckily, a few women were brave enough to slam me with the truth. It
eventually hit home, I slowly grew up, and women stopped leaving me
as quickly or at all (unless I wanted them to.. lol).
Back to OP Steve. His approach (on this particular topic *only*)
warranted feedback, plain and simple. He was coming across as
spoiled, impatient, humourless, and bad moody. Not in every post.
But in enough. "The real real tired of tone on list" comment was
last straw for me. A huge outpouring of help, one little comment
from me trying to encourage him to push himself a little harder, and
now the TONE of this entire list is TIRING? Well, to that implied
FU, FU too!
My resultant comments, as Battle politely and privately pointed out
to me, perhaps should have been emailed privately. Maybe I goofed,
or maybe the feedback has more impact if it's public. Who knows.
If an OP is going to denigrate the whole group and pack up their
toys and go home just because ONE guy gives them a smidgeon of
feedback they find unpleasant, despite the vastly greater benefits
they derived, then maybe that's just what they need to do. It's
their call whether they want to shoot themselves in the foot or not.
Human interaction IS MESSY. It's always got good and bad, pleasant
and unpleasant, elegance and sloppiness. I say, deal with it,
listen to it, learn from it, be thankful it's there at all.
jS
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
2:31 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
It's a separate thread now so you don't have to waste time reading it.
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
Wow, I wish I had as much time to waste complaining
about pointless
issues as you guys. Then I'd actually have time to work on my
hobbies...
Pat
2:50 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
Don't worry, I didn't.
On Monday 11 May 2009, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
It's a separate thread now so you don't have
to waste time reading
it.
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
> Wow, I wish I had as much time to waste complaining about pointless
> issues as you guys. Then I'd actually have time to work on my
> hobbies...
>
> Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
1:52 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 11:44 -0500, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Not surprising; as I recall some people were also
annoyed by Sellam's rude
and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to see *him* leave.
Sellam didn't post obscene messages to people off-list.
Gordon
2:44 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
Not
surprising; as I recall some people were also annoyed by Sellam's rude
and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to see *him* leave.
Sellam didn't post obscene messages to people off-list.
Gordon
3:08 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 13:44 -0500, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
I welcome your opinions, Gordon, but unless you're a list moderator or
owner, you are not entitled to rudely, insultingly, and stupidly give
orders to me on or off list. Since that's what you did, on-list, you
were (logically enough) rewarded with my hand-crafted, colorful,
"sanctioned by Dick Chaney" language, off-list (where it belongs).
I'm somewhat surprised you think it's acceptable to respond to acerbic
humour with obscene language.
Kids these days...
Gordon
Not surprising; as I recall some people were also
annoyed by Sellam's rude
and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to see *him* leave.
Sellam didn't post obscene messages to people off-list.
Gordon
3:29 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
I welcome your
opinions, Gordon, but unless you're a list moderator or
owner, you are not entitled to rudely, insultingly, and stupidly give
orders to me on or off list. Since that's what you did, on-list, you
were (logically enough) rewarded with my hand-crafted, colorful,
"sanctioned by Dick Chaney" language, off-list (where it belongs).
I'm somewhat surprised you think it's acceptable to respond to
acerbic
humour with obscene language.
Kids these days...
Gordon 
3:36 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Yep. I'm still a kid. Plus I'm a kid with Lyme disease... which
very
unfortunately leads to fits of "Lyme rage" with very little provocation.
A characteristic of "Lyme rage" is an epithetically loose tongue. But
hey, if it's good enough for Dick Chaney, it ought to be good enough for
anyone! ;-)
*plonk*
Peace... Sridhar
I welcome
your opinions, Gordon, but unless you're a list moderator
or owner, you are not entitled to rudely, insultingly, and stupidly
give orders to me on or off list. Since that's what you did,
on-list, you were (logically enough) rewarded with my hand-crafted,
colorful, "sanctioned by Dick Chaney" language, off-list (where it
belongs).
I'm somewhat surprised you think it's acceptable to respond to
acerbic
humour with obscene language.
Kids these days...
Gordon 
12 May
12 May
12:13 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
Yep. ?I'm still a kid. ?Plus I'm a kid with
Lyme disease... which very
unfortunately leads to fits of "Lyme rage" with very little provocation.
I have been Lymed twice, but am only half the prick I used to be.
Don't make excuses.
--
Will
12:33 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
William Donzelli wrote:
It's not an excuse.. it's a factor. Don't dictate my experience.
Your
experience is not mine.
Yep. I'm
still a kid. Plus I'm a kid with Lyme disease... which very
unfortunately leads to fits of "Lyme rage" with very little provocation.
I have been Lymed twice, but am only half the prick I used to be.
Don't make excuses.
--
Will
1:12 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
William Donzelli wrote:
Sorry to inform you of this, Will, but apparently, you're still the
whole prick.
It's not
an excuse.. it's a factor. Don't dictate my experience. Your
experience is not mine.
A chorus of deer ticks sings out "plonk".
--
Will "I have been Lymed twice, but am only half the prick I used to be."
1:29 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
On 12 May 2009 at 12:12, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Gentlemen, please! You're not chimpanzees.
Will "I
have been Lymed twice, but am only half the prick I used to
be."
Sorry to inform you of this, Will, but apparently, you're still the
whole prick. 
1:38 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
On May 12, 2009, at 1:29 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Gentlemen, please! You're not chimpanzees.
Speak for yourself!
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Will "I have been Lymed twice, but am only half
the prick I used to
be."
Sorry to inform you of this, Will, but apparently, you're still the
whole prick.
2:03 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
Dave McGuire wrote:
On May 12, 2009, at 1:29 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Gentlemen, please! You're not chimpanzees.
Speak for yourself!
LOL. Good one, Dave.
Will "I have been Lymed twice, but am only half
the prick I used to
be."
Sorry to inform you of this, Will, but apparently, you're still the
whole prick.
2:12 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
On May 12, 2009, at 2:03 PM, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Speak for yourself!
LOL. Good one, Dave.
[big toothy grin]
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
> Will
"I have been Lymed twice, but am only half the prick I
> used to
> be."
Sorry to inform you of this, Will, but apparently, you're still the
whole prick.
Gentlemen, please! You're not chimpanzees. 
3:54 p.m.
New subject: List behavior
On Tue, 12 May 2009 13:03:14 -0500, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
.... a lot of anonymous crap to this list.
Who is js at cimmeri.com ?
I see once in the past he signed an email as Josh.
He uses a network solutions mailserver but there is no webpage for cimmeri.com.
I thought this was a "real name" required list, or am I mistaken ?
It has been years since I looked for/at the FAQ so I may be delusional about its
exsistance or contents :)
I have always assumed that if for "other reasons" one did not use a their real
name in the email header,
then it should be used as a signiture at the end of the message.
In my mind jS has not meet that basic level of Netiquette making further comment or
contact off subject.
Back under my rock ....
The other Bob
4:28 p.m.
New subject: List behavior
I used to know a woman at work who had a valid email address
<firstname>(a)<surname>.co.uk and I too assumed it was based around a website
www.<surname>.co.uk , which turned out to be a non-existant site.
I'm sure those who know more about emails could find out where it actually comes
from.
Just my $0.02
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
--- On Tue, 12/5/09, Bob Bradlee <caveguy at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Bob Bradlee <caveguy at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: List behavior
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Date: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009, 8:54 PM
On Tue, 12 May 2009 13:03:14 -0500, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
.... a lot of anonymous crap to this list.
Who is js at cimmeri.com ?
I see once in the past he signed an email as Josh.
He uses a network solutions mailserver but there is no webpage for cimmeri.com.
I thought this was a "real name" required list, or am I mistaken ?
It has been years since I looked for/at the FAQ so I may be delusional about
its exsistance or contents :)
I have always assumed that if for "other reasons" one did not use a
their real name in the email header,
then it should be used as a signiture at the end of the message.
In my mind jS has not meet that basic level of Netiquette making further
comment or contact off subject.
Back under my rock ....
The other Bob
4:53 p.m.
New subject: List behavior
Andrew Burton wrote:
I used to know a woman at work who had a valid email
address <firstname>(a)<surname>.co.uk and I too assumed it was based around a
website www.<surname>.co.uk , which turned out to be a non-existant site.
I'm sure those who know more about emails could find out where it actually comes
from.
Just my $0.02
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
I used to know a dancer at a strip club who had a
valid domain
<(a)domain.extension> and I too assumed it meant she had an email address,
webpage, ftp site, gopher and archie servers, and WHOIS information...
all of which turned out to be "non-existant."
I'm sure this means that she was really a part of a terrorist cell
organization, and that those here who work in the FBI, CIA, or NSA could
*and should* find out who she actually is.
Just my $0.01.
Regards,
John S.
js at cimmeri.com
11:10 p.m.
New subject: List behavior
In article <200905121955.n4CJt34o043417 at keith.ezwind.net>,
"Bob Bradlee" <caveguy at sbcglobal.net> writes:
I thought this was a "real name" required
list, or am I mistaken ?
What is a "real name" anyway? Unless you're going to require
certification of identities through a trusted third party who will
issue a cryptographic key with which all posters must sign their
messages, your hopes for a "real name" are pointless.
At one point I psoted with my full name. Then some crank who didn't
like me disagreeing with him on a politics list decided to leave a
message on my home answering machine threatening me with bodily harm.
After that I took all indicators of my name off my messages for a
while. At one point another net.crank insisted he didn't have to take
my position seriously because I wouldn't post with my "real name", as
you assert in your message about js at cimmeri.com. To satisfy such
troglodytes, I put my "real name" as Phil McRevis (say it out loud to
get the joke). Having been satisfied that he "knew" my "real name",
he then began to discuss the points of discussion with "Phil".
At some later date I reverted to my real (ha!) first name and left
Phil McRevis behind, but the point was made that insisting on
someone's "real name" is a pointless exercise on the net.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
13 May
13 May
1:51 a.m.
New subject: List behavior
Richard wrote:
"Phil McRevis behind"
Inspired punnery, or accident? Well played, in either case.
My sister used to work for a newspaper. Some of the local morning DJs on radio in the
area used to call in phony stories to the papers to see if they could get them published.
My sister's paper was hit with an article about, erm, YOU, Phil McRevis, and your golf
partners, Craven Moorehead and Haywood Jablomie. Mr. Jablomie, age 69, of course,
apparently got a hole-in-one.
Warren
12 May
12 May
2:11 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 12 May 2009 at 12:12, js at cimmeri.com wrote:
Gentlemen, please! ?You're not chimpanzees.
<strangelove>Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is
classiccmp!</strangelove>
-Seth
Will
?"I have been Lymed twice, but am only half the prick I used to
be."
Sorry to inform you of this, Will, but apparently, you're still the
whole prick.
6:32 a.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Sellam didn't post obscene messages to people off-list.
As the recipient of some of them, I beg to differ.
I almost left the list for that reason.
Warren
8:37 p.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?)
Rumor has it that Gordon JC Pearce may have mentioned these words:
On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 11:44 -0500, js at cimmeri.com
wrote:
{sarcasm}
No, he did that on-list for all to see!
{/sarcasm}
Yes, I'm kidding.
Laterz,
"Merch"
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
_??_
(?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
_)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
Not surprising; as I recall some people were also
annoyed by Sellam's rude
and insulting attitude and language and not entirely sorry to see *him*
leave.
Sellam didn't post obscene messages to people off-list. 
12:09 a.m.
New subject: List behavior (spinoff from Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Telediskformat?)
I find myself searching for the worm can lid.
5530
days inactive
5532
days old
30 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk -
caveguy＠sbcglobal.net -
cclist＠sydex.com -
dm561＠torfree.net -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
js＠cimmeri.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
legalize＠xmission.com -
lists＠databasics.us -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
sethm＠loomcom.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com -
zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com