- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jonas＠otter.se

On Thu, 10 May 2012 10:40:08 -0400, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Jonas Otter<jonas at otter.se> wrote: >> > On ?Wed, 9 May 2012 09:04:07 -0700, "Michael Holley"<swtpc6800 at comcast.net> >> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I was told the load from hard disk was page fault the swapped the desired >>> >> data back into memory. >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] >>> >> On Behalf Of Tom Uban >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 5:33 AM >>> >> >>> >> One note on the PDP-11/03 booting the VAX-11/780, the PDP-11/03 first >>> >> loads the microcode into the VAX-11/780, thereby defining the machine's >>> >> higher level of operating code, then a bootstrap to load from a particular >>> >> hard disk or tape is run. On most PDP-11s, the microcode is stored in >>> >> ROMs or is hard wired. >>> >> >> > VMS always loads a program by page faulting it into memory. That mechanism >> > would AFAIK not work for booting, because the whole paging software, disk >> > drivers etc would have to be loaded and initialized first. I don't remember >> > offhand what it says in the VMS internals book about booting, but I could >> > look it up. > I, too, would have to look up details, but from what I remember about the 11/730 > (which has an 8085 as a front-end processor, not a PDP-11, but AFAIK, the > general principles still apply), the FEP loads VMB.EXE from the console medium > (RX01 for the 11/780, TU58 for the 11/730) into VAX main memory then kicks the > processor into run mode. > > The 11/750 is a different beast - it has native boot ROMs and no FEP (there's > an A-D selector switch, and there are several common arrangements of boot > ROMs, including for third-party disk controllers) > > -ethan According to the VMS Internals book, SYSBOOT (secondary bootstrap, loaded after VMB) sets up the system page table. SYSBOOT loads EXE$INIT and transfers control to it. EXE$INIT then does all the work of setting up page tables, loading the paging subsystem and turning on memory management. So it appears that no paging in of anything can occur until at least EXE$INIT has done its work. /Jonas

14 years, 1 month

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PDP-11/35 (And: It's good to be back)

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-05-10 02.53, Seth Morabito<lists at loomcom.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > > First I'd just like to say it's good to be back. I think I first joined > Classiccmp in 1998-ish, and I've been on-again off-again as time and > life has permitted participation in the hobby. Following a very long > time spent off the list, it's really good to finally be back. I've > missed this place a lot. [...] Hi Seth. Long time no see indeed. Nice to hear you're getting some usable computers again. ;-) Johnny

14 years, 1 month

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More photos from VCF East 8

by jonas＠otter.se

On Wed, 9 May 2012 09:04:07 -0700, "Michael Holley" <swtpc6800 at comcast.net> wrote: > I was told the load from hard disk was page fault the swapped the desired > data back into memory. > > Michael Holley > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Tom Uban > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 5:33 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: More photos from VCF East 8 > > One note on the PDP-11/03 booting the VAX-11/780, the PDP-11/03 first loads > the microcode into the VAX-11/780, thereby defining the machine's higher > level of operating code, then a bootstrap to load from a particular hard > disk or tape is run. On most PDP-11s, the microcode is stored in ROMs or is > hard wired. > VMS always loads a program by page faulting it into memory. That mechanism would AFAIK not work for booting, because the whole paging software, disk drivers etc would have to be loaded and initialized first. I don't remember offhand what it says in the VMS internals book about booting, but I could look it up. /Jonas

14 years, 1 month

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VCFeast, H960s, and module cleaning.

by mross666＠hotmail.com

First I'm popping my head above the parapet for the first time in a while; ancient computer ventures *have* been proceeding at the Corestore, but less so in the past due to pressures of other activities. Hopefully I'll be much more active again starting now or soon! I had a great time exhibiting the 'live restoration' of one of my pdp-15s at VCFeast; put some names to faces and had a good time all round. We got from a machine in bits which hadn't been powered on in 15 years, to an operational 11/05 front-end, and a -15 CPU which passed smoke-test and had a working console. We failed to make the most optimistic scenario of toggling in short programs due to a dodgy memory box power supply. Not bad for a few hours work. Next time I'll reserve more space, I won't arrive late, and I'll put up barriers and a 'do not feed the hacker' sign! Couple of questions occurred to me as a result of this exercise. If something is just a bit mucky from years of service/storage, I'll give it a good clean but otherwise keep it as original as possible, with a patina of age. But if something is really ratty, especially with evidence of corrosion, I like to refurbish it completely to as near as-new shiny condition as possible, in every part and detail. With that in mind: 1. I have a good number of ratty old H960s with flaking paint & rust, mostly just in the bases. My projected 'refurbish' technique would involve drilling out the rivets holding the verticals to the bases and tops, shot-blasting/wire-brushing/otherwise-abrading all the old paint and rust back to smooth bare metal, and repainting them to give shiny like-new H960s. Does anyone know the exact size and spec of the rivets that hold an H960 together? Does anyone have any relatively shiny near-new H960s spare/for sale? (I know someone who might, I'm talking to him already!) 2. From time to time I've seen discussion of cleaning techniques for circuit boards here, specifically DEC modules, mostly the M-series flip-chip stuff. Was there ever any final conclusion as to the best way to cosmetically clean them? I've seen accounts of washing them in (?soapy?) water, rinsing, and leaving them in sun to dry. Is that really safe? Thoughts on other cleaning techniques? 3. When cosmetically refurbishing/repainting power supplies - H7420 etc. - does anyone have any good and valid suggestions for reproducing the DEC lettering and legends printed on the power supply? Photograph it and make some kind of transfer or sticker perhaps? How would one go about that? Thanks folks Mikehttp://www.corestore.org

14 years, 1 month

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FFS: HP2932a dot matrix printheads

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I have three printheads for the HP 2932a dot matrix printer. They're free for shipping. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

14 years, 1 month

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Dilog DQ614 Controller and RT11..

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> I have some cards here I want to build a PDP11 from, at the current > that's something around an KDF11-A CPU (22bit). > Currently I have problems with some Dilog Controller, this is an DQ614 > that emulates 4 RL02 Drivers out of two 20MB MFM disks (Microcience HH725). > I can install and successfully boot RT11SB.SYS and RT11FB.SYS but not > RT11XM oder RT11XB. XXDP2.5 is working fine. > Nowhere in the Dilog Documentation is something mentioned about 18 or 16 > bit addressing limitations of that controller, the pinout clearly has 22 > bits. > (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/) > I have an RQDX3 with 2 TEAC FD55-GFR-184 Floppies on this system too, I > can boot RT11XM oder RT11XB (same files!) from there fine... > If I try that from DL0 or DL1 I'll always get a trap to the ODT (0002), > regardless if I use the Dilogs own Bootloader or that from an 11/53 or an > 11/73 CPU. Which version RT11XM? If you boot RT11XM from the RQDX3, can you read/write (as a data disk) from DQ614 DL: ? Tim.

14 years, 1 month

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More stuff - Goldendale Wa.

by jimpdavis＠gorge.net

I forgot to mention a Radio shack/ tandy model 4 and color 2, TI 99/4A in box, piles of old hard and floppy drives, motorola 68K multibus? 520/1040 3 atari ST parts machines... Thanks, Jim.

14 years, 1 month

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TI-99/4A in PA

by fraveydank＠gmail.com

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/sys/3002690385.html Unopened, $50. Near Philadelphia (Montgomery County, PA). Just in case anyone wants it (I don't). - Dave

14 years, 1 month

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WTD: 16-bit SCSI PC Card

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

Does anyone have a spare 16-bit SCSI PC C ard (PCMCIA) adapter and dongle they would be willing to part with? I have an Adaptec 1460D card, but it has an 8-bit SCSI data path, and I need a card with a 16-bit data path to use with an old Nikon slide scanner that I have. Please reply directly to me at feldman.r at comcast.net . Thanks, Bob

14 years, 1 month

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EPROM and EEPROM Programmers

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I have some back-burner projects that will one day need me to start burning EPROMs and EEPROMs. I can't justify the cost of the big professional things costing hundreds of pounds. At the moment I know I will need to program a 27C1024 EPROM (40 pin DIP) and a 28C256 EEPROM (28 pin DIP), but it would be nice to have something that can handle a reasonable variety of devices. I believe the Willem programmer may be suitable, it is certainly affordable, would that fit the bill? It seems to come from Thailand, although there seem to be all sorts of sources on ebay, so I am not sure what the genuine source really is. I am also not averse to buying secondhand, ebay or otherwise, if I can get something that is going to be more generally useful than the Willem. Any advice welcome. Thanks Rob

14 years, 1 month

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discrete transistor computer

by rickb＠bensene.com

Tim wrote: > In the late 60's and 70's, radio shack sold some little one-bit-flip-flop boards > with lamps. Each flip flop was a little square of circuit board. > > There may have been other logic functions available one-to-a-board. I'm > pretty sure they were discrete transistors for the most part (even the round > package SSI Motorola RTL typically had two gates or flip flops per package.) > > You could buy multiples and configure them as a counter, and I'm pretty sure > they could be wired as a shift register too. > > May have been "Archerkit" brand name. Or "Pbox" brand name although > what I remember were not Pbox's but circuit boards. > > I tried using websearches to find pictures or docs, but the Googles, they do > nothing! > I built something like this when I was probably something like 12 or 13 years old. I was purchased at Radio Shack as a kit. It was a four bit binary counter, with incandescent lights as on the Q outputs, (though discrete transistor drivers), and a photoresistive cell or pushbutton switch as the trigger. With the photoresistor as the trigger, when you waved your hand in front of the photocell, it would increment the counter, which was pretty cool. I distinctly remember the RTL IC's made by Motorola in the black plastic "blob" packages. I have vague recollection of the project being a mother board that had four small circuit boards that had the flip flop chip, transistor driver, and lamp (perhaps these were the boards that Tim mentioned). The mother board had a photocell, a toggle switch, and a momentary action switch with de-bouncing circuitry. You could trigger the counter with the photocell, or the momentary action switch. I think the thing ran off a 9V battery if I remember correctly. The photocell didn't have very fast response time, but I do remember putting it in front of a fan in a dark room with a flashlight shining through the fan blades, and made the counter go pretty fast. I think that I eventually damaged the chips by trying to make the thing count BCD rather than binary by adding some gating. That was the end of it. It was fun building and tinkering with, and educational. It was my first exposure to integrated circuits.

14 years, 1 month

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More photos from VCF East 8

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

More photos from VCF East 8 http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=466 Here is a link to the session materials Kelly L and I used for our workshop, Introduction to Vintage Software Restoration. http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=467

14 years, 1 month

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Dilog DQ614 Controller and RT11..

by holm＠freibergnet.de

Hi, I have some cards here I want to build a PDP11 from, at the current that's something around an KDF11-A CPU (22bit). Currently I have problems with some Dilog Controller, this is an DQ614 that emulates 4 RL02 Drivers out of two 20MB MFM disks (Microcience HH725). I can install and successfully boot RT11SB.SYS and RT11FB.SYS but not RT11XM oder RT11XB. XXDP2.5 is working fine. Nowhere in the Dilog Documentation is something mentioned about 18 or 16 bit addressing limitations of that controller, the pinout clearly has 22 bits. (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/) I have an RQDX3 with 2 TEAC FD55-GFR-184 Floppies on this system too, I can boot RT11XM oder RT11XB (same files!) from there fine... If I try that from DL0 or DL1 I'll always get a trap to the ODT (0002), regardless if I use the Dilogs own Bootloader or that from an 11/53 or an 11/73 CPU. Does someone here know of that problem? Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741

14 years, 2 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 105, Issue 10

by mross666＠hotmail.com

> Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 01:08:08 -0400 > From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: More photos from VCF East 8 > Message-ID: > <CAALmimkv-r06X-W2GAB9VS1_NLpiDB-kACijtzOB3JS7tC6NYQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:27 PM, B Degnan <billdeg at degnanco.com> wrote: > > More photos from VCF East 8 > > http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=466 > > You wrote: > > "Mike Ross' exhibit consisted of a PDP 11/05 used to interface with > a PDP 15, in two racks. He demonstrated restoration techniques for > attendees. I am not sure exactly what you call this console, there is > no "PDP 15" on the panel, but I assume it's some kind of I/O device > that complements the (not pictured) PDP 11/05 used to presumably > bootstrap this thing." > > That _is_ the PDP-15 front panel - if you look, there are 18 data bits. > The PDP-15 CPU was the large spread of M-series cards on the > backplane above this front panel. Its memory was in a black box below > (and not there for much of the weekend). The PDP-11/05 is self-contained > and does the same job as the PDP-11/03 in a VAX-11/780 or the PDP-11 > in various models of PDP-10. In each case, the PDP-11 boots from its > own ROMs to start up enough code to feed the larger processor. In the > case of the VAX-11/780, the PDP-11/03 has one RX01 floppy drive. I > don't know what this PDP-11 uses, but there must be some local mass > storage that's part of the scheme. Yes and no. On a pdp-15, the 11/05 is more a front-end than a console/bootstrap processor; it doesn't need to load microcode or any such thing. Any pdp-15 can start up from paper tape (there's usually a reader/punch immediately above the -15 console, was not installed at VCF) - heck, there's even a dedicated 'Read-in' switch on the console which initiates that boot. On the -15 I exhibited, the mass storage *did* rely on the -11; an RK11 talked to two RK05s (also not taken to VCF to make system easier to handle), and a Unichannel 15-to-Unibus interface gives the -15 direct access to the RK subsystem in 18-bit mode. On my other pdp-15, mass storage is all native; it has an RP15 (disk) and TC59 (tape) controller. That system had an 11/40 front-end, but it was only used for communications devices. It's a much bigger restoration project as I only got hold of it after it had been deinstalled; quite a few cables cut, and every single -11 compatible component (the 11/40, power supplies etc) had been robbed by the site engineer for spares. > Many I/O devices of the day did have blinkenlights indicators (usually installed > at the top of the rack), but not this many control switches. The RP15, TC59, and FP15 all have a good crop of blinkenlights. What I really want to get hold of is a TC15 DECtape control! > Message: 26 > Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 06:10:39 -0700 (PDT) > From: Gene Buckle <geneb at deltasoft.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: VCF East pictures > Message-ID: > <alpine.LFD.2.00.1205090608490.11705 at grumble.deltasoft.com> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Tue, 8 May 2012, Mike Loewen wrote: > > > > > http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/VCF-East2012/ > > That PDP-15 console is just a thing of beauty. *sighs* Would it be bad form to admit at this point that I have two of them? :-D Mike

14 years, 2 months

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Need a PDP-8/I Bootable DECtape

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> Those new fangled IC's just aren't reliable. I only needed to repair > 14 processor board plus one power supply board in my straight 8. > Do you have any idea why so many? I didn't have to repair that many > in my 8/I though didn't record the actual count. The system sat in an uncontrolled environment for many years. There was lots of corrosion on the boards. Some of the leads on the ICs were so rusted that you could pry them off the board. We replaced LOTS of 7474 and 7400 ICs, and quite a few 7410, 7420, and 7440 ICs. There were all kinds of interesting failure modes. > The only OS I know that will run in 4k is disk monitor system (it does > run on dectape only systems despite the name). I saw that, read the manual, and couldn't believe that a disk operating system would run with just a DECtape. > The paper tape images needed to build it are here. > http://www.pdp8online.com/ftp/software/paper_tapes/ Got them now. > See in the readme DEC_D8* files. Start with SBAF then use the load > and save command for the other programs as desired. ?I tested with an > emulator that the DF32 PIP works with DECtape. We will give it a try if we successfully format a tape. > I recently built it for my DF32 so if you need more help I can provide. I > can build a DECtape using an emulator and my PDP-8 but I can't test it > since I don't have a TD controller. The TC01 controller doesn't have any ICs, so it just worked. Thanks for the help. -- Michael Thompson

14 years, 2 months

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VCF-East?

by david＠classiccomputing.com

>> VCF-East is this weekend, and it's shaping up to be QUITE an event! >> Who's going? > > I'm going *and* exhibiting ! It will be the best VCF ever ! There will be > all those great lecturers, workshops, exhibits, etc ! And I get to learn how > to troubleshoot and repair my C64 ! Super great weekend ahead ! Grumble, grumble, snarl . . . get off of my lawn! ; ) Best, David Greelish, Computer Historian President, Atlanta Historical Computing Society - Author, "The Complete Historically Brewed" - "Classic Computing Show" podcast - "Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer" audiobook podcast - "Retro Computing Roundtable" podcast - "Not Another Apple Podcast" ClassicComputing.com | atlhcs.org

14 years, 2 months

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Pertec hard disk

by cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de

Hi, I'm looking for information (cabling, jumper settings) for a Pertec 8" SMD drive, model DX332 (full model number: DX332-2-D-01). Christian

14 years, 2 months

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Tek tube

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

Can someone please look up in your Tek manuals: Is the tube in the 4010 a number 154-0624-11? Need to know today? -- Will

14 years, 2 months

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WHY? (Was: What's the point of USB keyboards+mice)

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

On 6 May 2012 at 14:22, Fred Cisin wrote: > WHY is the keyboard (and mouse) connector on the BACK? > WHY was the power switch at the back? ?(I loved the PS/2 bellcrank > linkage to put a power switch at the front with a long rod to the > back!) For my first PC/XT clone computer, I built my own case. I put the?floppies and power switch on the front and all of the ports on the side (the expansion cards ran from side-to side rather than front-to-back). Much easier to get to the cords that way and there were no wir es sticking out the front. Bob

14 years, 2 months

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A little humor from my school

by fraveydank＠gmail.com

Some of you will find this amusing, anyway. This is a verbatim quote >from our *current* graduate CS handbook: The department?s computing facilities include Sun and Silicon Graphics workstations, SGI Crimson and SPARC servers, and high performance graphics workstations (SGI Indigo2, Onyx Reality Engine2). The Office of Information Technology has over 400 workstations for general student use and several high-end machines including a Silicon Graphics Challenge XL 20 processor system. UMBC?s Imaging Research Center also provides high-end graphics support including production quality input/output devices and production software (Wavefront, Softimage, and Alias). While these are cool machines, I did see some of them at VCF East this past weekend. I'm pretty sure the school doesn't have them anymore. I guess weeding out old info isn't a top priority. :-) - Dave

14 years, 2 months

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WTB: Signetics 2650 Evaluation board PC1001

by pinball＠telus.net

Does anyone have one of these animals? I am trying to reproduce an old video game that was based on it and figured it might be easier with the Eval. board. Thanks, John Robertson Vancouver, BC, Canada

14 years, 2 months

2
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Module recognition time! Again.

by peter＠vanpeborgh.eu

Guys, Does anyone recognise this transistor module, presumably from a 60s computer? Many thanks, peter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110840435635?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p39… || | | | | | | | | Peter Van Peborgh 62 St Mary's Rise Writhlington Radstock Somerset BA3 3PD UK 01761 439 234 || | | | | | | | |

14 years, 2 months

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SCO Unix manuals available

by kelly＠catcorner.org

I have copies of the SCO manauls available. About 40 pounds worth of OS and development system stuff. This is all pre-OpenServer stuff. It is SCO UNIX 3.2v4.0 They are located in Wantage NJ. Come and get them or pay me to ship them. If anyone is iterested let me know, or they go the the recyclers. Kelly

14 years, 2 months

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Need a PDP-8/I Bootable DECtape

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

The RICM has the processor of their PDP-8/I functional after replacing or repairing 38 Flipchip modules and the core stack. We have lots of Dectapes that originally held data from a PDP-11, but nothing that is bootable on the 8/I. We tried the TC01 bootstrap with one of the PDP-11 tapes. It moves the tape to the first block and then gets a TIM (Timing Error), so the TC01 and the TU55 is at least partially alive. Can anyone supply a Dectape that would be bootable on this 4k machine, or tell us the procedure for making a bootable Dectape? http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/pdp-8-i -- Michael Thompson

14 years, 2 months

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[NO REWARD WHATSOEVER] Looking for IBM, ANSI, and Sun doc

by microcode＠zoho.com

I figured I should ask now while everybody is in a helpful mood :-) Does anybody have scans of any or all of the following? IBM 01. MVS/ESA Component Diagnosis and Logic: EXCP Processor (LY28-1477) 02. LY28-1487 03. LY28-1488 04. LC28-1166-5 05. SA22-7085-0 System/370 Extended Architecture Principles of Operation 06. SA22-7085-1 System/370 Extended Architecture Principles of Operation 07. SA22-7200 System/370 Enterprise Systems Architecture Principles of Operation ANSI American National Standards Institute ANSI X3. 74-1987 (PL/I Subset G) Sun UltraSPARC-IIIi Programmer's Reference Manual which is referenced here: http://hg.genunix.org/onnv-gate.hg/file/48f2dbca79a2/usr/src/lib/libcpc/spa… and here: http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E19683-01/816-1681/6m83631lh/index.html although without any pointers or links. I have the U/S IIIi User's Manual but this does not seem to be the one the above doc is referencing. No reward except my gratitude and promise to search my archives for my pals in need! However Al is making it pretty tough to have anything unique! Many thanks to Al for running bitsavers and everybody for contributing. I hope archive.org sticks around long enough for us to scrounge whatever is left on Sun but it's getting thin. I haven't been able to get to the open firmware site on playground.sun.com and the official site is running a business on openfirmware and isn't exactly giving out doc. So much for open. Thank you.

14 years, 2 months

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What's the point of USB keyboards+mice = Re: EPROM and EEPROM

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Sat, 5 May 2012 21:24:19 +0100 (BST), ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >>> And why is this a Good Thing? My point is that it's to be exptected that >>> a modern PC will have a keyboard and mouse connected to it. Why does it >>> make any difference to the used if those can be connected to 2 of the USB >>> ports or to 2 specific connectors for them? >> >> You've already asked that. > > Yes, and I still haven't received an answer. > >> >> NOW imagine that a whole bunch of unforeseen devices - printers, >> cameras, touch sensitive tablets, disks, modems, e-book readers, 'pen' >> drives, portable audio players, ... - arrives. Are they meant to use >> PS/2? Are they supposed to have individual connectors? USB is no more a >> silly idea than RS-232 is. > > That is NOT WHAT I AM ASKING ABOUT. I sam specifically considering only > keyboards and mice. I happen to think that USB is a useful interface in > some situations, for example for external memory devices. That doens't > mean I have to think it's the best interface for all applications no > matter what marketroids may claim. Consider the computer in front of me. There is a keyboard, a mouse, a trackball, and a Wacom Inkling all plugged in and active using USB. How do you do that with only two ports? I use the trackball and occasionally the tablet. Another user uses the mouse and the tablet. All without unplugging and plugging the various devices... ->CRC

14 years, 2 months

1
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seattle jabber

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I was wondering if there's anyone in Seattle who wants to meet up and talk about random stuff. I'm up here from Bakersfield for an interview. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

14 years, 2 months

4
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DEC Professional 350 Fault

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

The DEC Pro 350 I got came without a monitor, cable or keyboard. When I power it up the diagnostic LEDs on the back all come on. The docs I have suggest this means a system board error. However, I am not sure if this is because there is no monitor or keyboard attached. Might this behaviour be expected if I don't have anything connected to the video connector? I tried connecting a terminal to the serial port just in case something happened there, but I don't see anything. Does the Pro 350 use the serial port as any kind of console port by any chance? I suspect not. I am trying to identify what cable I need. I think it is a BCC02, but if it is a colour machine it would be a BCC17, but I don't know how to tell if this is a colour machine or not. There also seems to be a BCC03 cable used on Rainbows, anyone know if that would work? Regards Rob

14 years, 2 months

3
3
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GlobalView for X

by bojan89m＠aim.com

Hi Mike, I know that's old stuff, but I like. Do you know where I can find GlobalView for X, because links on corestore are so dead. If you still have it I would be thankful if you can send it to me. Thank on future answers and actions. Best regards

14 years, 2 months

1
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VCF-East?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

VCF-East is this weekend, and it's shaping up to be QUITE an event! Who's going? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

14 years, 2 months

6
5
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MicroSD: one good ripoff deserves another / Iomega Zip's

by jonas＠otter.se

Tony Duell wrote: > Well, I'd rather pay more for some good enegineering, like > differential > inputs and outputs (which will reduce common-mode noise signals for > good > engieerign reasons that I can understand) that pay for good-lated > fuses, > carpet groudnign clips, special mains cables, etc that have no > science or > engineering behind them. > Note that merely having differential inputs and outputs doesn't solve all problems, you have to know what to do with them as well: http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/balanced/balanced.htm (Douglas Self is or was the head designer at Soundcraft and is a well known writer on audio, he has written a lot in Wireless World/Electronics World) /Jonas

14 years, 2 months

2
1
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Wanted: Apple Keyboard Encoder MM5740AA/E

by pye＠mactec.com.au

On May 2, 2012 at 11:18 AM Pete Rittwage <peter at rittwage.com> wrote: >> Any interest in an module that replicates the /E functionality? >> >> (or, maybe there is already such a thing) >> >> Jim >> >> >> -- >> Jim Brain >> brain at jbrain.com >> www.jbrain.com >> > > Not quite yet. Mike Willegal has done pin mappings to use an AVR as a > drop-in replacement, but hasn't written any software yet. Would Vince Briel's Super Encoder do this function? http://www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?p=343 Chris

14 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Pictures of an KDF11-BF??

by holm＠freibergnet.de

Hi, I've got an BA23 Box with an M8190-AB lately (from Henk, special thanks to you!). The M8190-AB should be an KDJ11-BB 11/73 CPU. I have an MSV11-JE (M8637-E) PMI Memory Card too and I'm wondering if I can use them thogether.. As far as I've read it should be possible if I put the memory below the CPU, using it as plain Q-BUS memory this way. Can anyone confirm this? What will happen if I put the Memory board at top in the PMI Order? What are the differences from the KDJ11-BB to the KDJ11-BF? Are there pictures to look at somwhere on the net? All I have found for KDJ11-BF with google is exactly looking like my 11/73 CPU Board.... Kind Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741

14 years, 2 months

4
10
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EPROM and EEPROM Programmers

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

> Eric Smith wrote: >> ? ?Bill Sudbrink wrote: >> > Data sheet claims pin compatibility with 2732. >>> >> It claims that it is "pin compatible with existing ROMs and >> EPROMs (8K, 16K, 32K and 64K)", but that does not include the >> 2732, and their reference to 32K and 64K was only in regard to >> ROMs. > >> The TMS2532 is most definitely *not* pin compatible with 2732 http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue11/69_1_ROM_EXPANSION_FOR_THE_CO… The 2532 _is_ pin-compatible for reading in a PET socket that's expecting a 2332 masked-programmed ROM. I've had several 2532s in my PET 2001N-32 (US version of the 3032) since the late 1970s, no adapter. These days, it's easier to build an adapter than find real 2532s. -ethan

14 years, 2 months

3
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EPROM and EEPROM Programmers

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message: Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:46:30 -0400 From: Keith Monahan <keithvz at verizon.net> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: EPROM and EEPROM Programmers > I want something that connects to my computer like all my other devices. > Something that does not require anything special. > A USB eeprom burner that I can use on any of my current desktop/laptop > computers is what I want. ---- Well, by golly, then that's what you should get; lots of them out there! I generally find that when I have a round hole it's easier to find a round peg instead of complaining about the corners on the square ones ;-) I actually find an RS-232 serial interface the most flexible in terms of machines I can connect it to, including through a USB <> serial adapter if necessary. I take it that "*all* your other devices" must be less than 15 years old then, so what brings you to the Classic Computer List? ;-) Ironic that folks on the "Classic" computer list don't even have a machine with a serial or parallel port; I built programmers for both my PET and my AIM65, not much more than a connector and a socket since like many classics there were lots of available I/O pins, but from this discussion about programmers it seems that actually _using_ a classic computer for something useful isn't very common... m

14 years, 2 months

2
1
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Wanted: Apple Keyboard Encoder MM5740AA/E

by peter＠rittwage.com

> Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 19:30:22 -0500 > From: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Wanted: Apple Keyboard Encoder MM5740AA/E > Message-ID: <4FA0801E.3060107 at jbrain.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 5/1/2012 12:43 PM, Pete Rittwage wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> I apologize if this isn't the place for this... >> >> These come up on eBay every so often, but they are untested or I miss >> them. Does anyone have any spares of this old chip? I've got an old >> Apple II that I'd like to use the regular keyboard instead of a PS/2 >> adapter. >> >> I purchased some of the "C" variant (MM5740AA/C) some time back, but >> they >> have a different key mapping than the Apple computers. If someone needs >> those I can post for free or trade. I have no idea what keyboard they >> were used in. >> >> - >> Pete Rittwage >> Augusta, GA, USA >> > Any interest in an module that replicates the /E functionality? > > (or, maybe there is already such a thing) > > Jim > > > -- > Jim Brain > brain at jbrain.com > www.jbrain.com > Not quite yet. Mike Willegal has done pin mappings to use an AVR as a drop-in replacement, but hasn't written any software yet. - Pete Rittwage C64 Preservation Project http://c64preservation.com

14 years, 2 months

2
2
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fyi... ebay changed all the computer categories

by legalize＠xmission.com

Not sure when they did this, but they changed a bunch of categories in the computers section. So if you had saved searches, check them to make sure they are still finding the correct things. For instance, I had a search for dials boxes and button boxes. A new item was listed (sgi dials box) that this search used to find, but doesn't find anymore because the category it was searching no longer exists. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org> The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

14 years, 2 months

1
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another HP2100 on govliquidation

by shumaker＠att.net

The 2 HP 2100's from GovLiquidation arrived a few weeks ago in incredible shape (after waiting some 8 weeks for DLA to decide I'm OK to acquire a weapon system component.....) Anyway, for anyone interested. there's another one listed - this time in Oklahoma. The title shows it as an "HP 21005 microprogramming systems computer" but it's clearly the HP 2100s mini in the photos! Event ID is 10728 Item No is 1510 Unit appears in good shape and already has a heavy duty shipping carton.

14 years, 2 months

14
32
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Wanted: Apple Keyboard Encoder MM5740AA/E

by elson＠pico-systems.com

Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 13:43:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Pete Rittwage" <peter at rittwage.com> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Wanted: Apple Keyboard Encoder MM5740AA/E Message-ID: <52999.10.2.0.194.1335894210.squirrel at rittwage.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hi guys, I apologize if this isn't the place for this... These come up on eBay every so often, but they are untested or I miss them. Does anyone have any spares of this old chip? I've got an old Apple II that I'd like to use the regular keyboard instead of a PS/2 adapter. I purchased some of the "C" variant (MM5740AA/C) some time back, but they have a different key mapping than the Apple computers. If someone needs those I can post for free or trade. I have no idea what keyboard they were used in. I have an MM5740AAC/N which I used to keep an industrial control working. It hasn't been turned on in 13 years, but ought to still be good. The key codes are in the data sheets, which ought to still be searchable online. I made an adaptor board that plugs into the MM5740 socket and recodes for the funny char sequence that that particular machine used. It uses a 2732 as the code translator. Jon

14 years, 2 months

1
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Wanted: Apple Keyboard Encoder MM5740AA/E

by peter＠rittwage.com

Hi guys, I apologize if this isn't the place for this... These come up on eBay every so often, but they are untested or I miss them. Does anyone have any spares of this old chip? I've got an old Apple II that I'd like to use the regular keyboard instead of a PS/2 adapter. I purchased some of the "C" variant (MM5740AA/C) some time back, but they have a different key mapping than the Apple computers. If someone needs those I can post for free or trade. I have no idea what keyboard they were used in. - Pete Rittwage Augusta, GA, USA

14 years, 2 months

2
1
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EPROM and EEPROM Programmers

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:19:44 -0700, Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> wrote: > CRC wrote: >> and also failed until he looked at the schematics for his unit and >> found yet another pin out for what appeared to be a 2716 equivalent. >> The PROMs in question are NEC2316 about which information is unobtainium. > > I think you're referring to the NEC ?PD2316E, which isn't a PROM. It's a > masked ROM. NEC's masked ROM business came from their acquisition of > Electronic Arrays, and the NEC ?PD2316E was originally the EA8316E, so > you can find data in either an EA databook, or an early NEC databook, > such as the 1982 NEC Catalog. Nope - It's a windowed, ceramic chip with the markings clearly NEC2316... ->CRC

14 years, 2 months

2
1
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Gone extinct

by jchausler＠earthlink.net

No software for a 6809??? What about FLEX and UniFLEX from TSC for an OS and Stylograph for a word processor not to mention Dynacalc for a spreadsheed and numerous BASIC's, editors, assemblers, disassemblers, diagnostic tools, etc. I still have a 6809 system which runs FLEX with both Stylograph and Dynacalc and many other things running with two 8 inch and two 5 1/4 inch floppies just fine... 73, Chris Hausler >> Home computing never took off until the software industry exploded. >> There are tons of computer models like the ADAM and my Timex 2068 that >> never went anywhere because there was little software available for the >> masses. Plenty of people had computers before the 80's, they just tended >> to write their own software as needed. > >I tend to think the lack of floppy disk with a real OS , killed the 8 >bitters >out there. I was just looking at some old mags from the 80's,PC DOS and >CP/M was it for general purpose OS's. I wanted to get a 6809 machine >back then, but I could not find software to with the hardware. >Ben.

14 years, 2 months

2
1
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Gone extinct

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

I came across some interesting reading the other day in a library book that I'm sorry I can't remember its name. It essentially said: Can one subscribe to the theory that vintage computers, such as the Coleco ADAM, went extinct because they used cassette drives where one spent more time finding information and recording such which greatly slowed down processing thereby defeating the purpose of electronic computing? I?m not sure if this applied to floppy drive systems but computing never really took off until hard drives came along in the 16-bit world, i.e., the mid-80s! Classic computing aficionados, particularly on this site, may have a different take on things. Murray--

14 years, 2 months

21
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OT: cipher machine on Ebay Hagelin

by jws＠jwsss.com

pricy, at $7,000, but for such a machine that is cheap. HAGELIN C-362 CIPHER MACHINE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160783096486 May be a bit off the classic computing theme, however the deciphering equipment is classic cmp. thanks Jim

14 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

EPROM and EEPROM Programmers

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:18:24 -0400, "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink at verizon.net> wrote: > > Eric Smith wrote: >> Bill Sudbrink wrote: >>> Data sheet claims pin compatibility with 2732. >> >> No, the TMS2532 doesn't make any such claim. > > Interesting. Thanks for the correction. > >> It claims that it is "pin compatible with existing ROMs and >> EPROMs (8K, 16K, 32K and 64K)", but that does not include the >> 2732, and their reference to 32K and 64K was only in regard to >> ROMs. > > So, the 2532 predates the 2732? Interesting that they revised > the data sheet until 1982 without clearing that up. > >> The TMS2532 is most definitely *not* pin compatible with 2732 > > I see that now. I must remember that data sheets are at least > partially products of the marketing departments. Sigh... > > Bill S. To totally confuse the situation, the TMS2716 in not compatible with the Intel 2716 whereas the TMS2516 is, The TMS2732 is industry standard whereas the TMS2532 is not. This goes back to the time when the industry was sorting out what was going to be standard - one should be extremely careful when choosing, changing, or programming PROMs of this vintage. I just went through a learning process with a piece of failed HP test gear where a PROM failed. The unit had 2716 equivalents. I borrowed a friend's unit and attempted to read his PROMs and failed. An individual on the HP equipment list attempted to do the same and also failed until he looked at the schematics for his unit and found yet another pin out for what appeared to be a 2716 equivalent. The PROMs in question are NEC2316 about which information is unobtainium. -> CRC

14 years, 2 months

3
3
0 0

discrete transistor computer

by elson＠pico-systems.com

A while ago somebody mentioned thinking about building a discrete transistor computer. I ran across the link again of the one I saw (only online) http://www.6502.org/users/dieter/mt15/mt15.htm With all SMT, he packs the boards very closely, performance is of course not so great with discrete junction transistors running in saturation. Jon

14 years, 2 months

8
9
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ibm funky 3 1/2 inch disk

by stefan.skoglund＠agj.net

i have one of the IBM:made minidisk ? (looks a bit like a normal 3-1/2 inch floppy) drives. Any source for disks ?

14 years, 2 months

3
4
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EPROM and EEPROM Programmers

by fraveydank＠gmail.com

On Apr 30, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Dave Wade wrote: >> I have some "TMS2532" chips. Any suggestions on how to program them (I >> have a project in mind that will need these or a similar device) > > Data sheet claims pin compatibility with 2732. I would start there. Er. Electrically compatible, *maybe*, but the pinout is different enough that they're definitely not interchangeable. Defender uses a bunch of 2532s, which is unfortunate because they're a lot harder to find than 2732s. If you're looking to get rid of 'em, I'll gladly take them off your hands for a reasonable price. For new projects, find some 2732s; they're a lot easier to find (and thus cheaper) and enjoy wider programmer support. - Dave

14 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Subject: Re: Gone extinct; From: Fred Cisin <cisin@xenosoft.com>

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012, Murray McCullough wrote: > I came across some interesting reading the other day in a library book> that I'm sorry I can't remember its name. It essentially said: Can one> subscribe to the theory that vintage computers, such as the Coleco> ADAM, went extinct because they used cassette drives where one spent> more time finding information and recording such which greatly slowed> down processing thereby defeating the purpose of electronic computing? Now I'm wodering, could the conveniently non-attributed "came across some interesting reading" question may not have been disingenuous, and somewhat rhetorical? I have never considered the Coleco Adam to have ANY historical significance, and tend to assume that any mention of it is an attempt at comprehensive completeness, or personal fondness. Yet, it turns out that C. Murray McCullough is the author of a history about microcomputers. On the cover of it, he gives Adam a position of greater importance than the others that he mentions: ADAM (in ORANGE, the others are in white) APPLE II TRS-80 MODEL I ZENITH HEATHKIT In the index (I could not get Amazon's "Look Inside" to show me any of the text past the Preamble, which doesn't get to the time of microcomputers),He has 25 entries for "Adam", enormously disproportionate (12 for "Commodore" PLUS 6 for "COMMODORE", 2 for TRS-80, . . . ) Dare I guess what Murray's first computer was? (Baby duck syndrome?) Nevertheless, the writing style looks intersting, and I may seek out a copy. "JPL (Job Control Language)"??!? ************************************************************************************ With unlimited stars in the universe so there seems to be an unlimited opinion on when things started & where & by whom in the microcomputer universe. (There is no consensus on what a microcomputer is!) Corporations, individuals protect valuable information and certain knowledge that is never made public. We can only hope that inaccurate information from these sources doesn?t occur. I came across the book in the Toronto Reference Library and I seldom get there because of the distance from my farm. I did not copy the name of the book or authour down and this is a serious error on my part. There was no disingenuosity on my part and in no way was it my intention to denigrate the book or authour. A reasoned argument around mustered facts, as was present in this book as far as this reader was concerned, cannot easily be dismissed nor ignored. I did write a book on the history of microcomputers ? A Historical Research Guide to the Microcomputer. ( Many thanks for mentioning it. ) It was on the early years of micro-computing up to the arrival of the IBM PC. I?ve been a member of the (Coleco)ADAM computer convention organization since 1989 and this was why I highlighted the computer in my book. I do indeed have a personal fondness for a computer Coleco abandoned and was taken up by die-hard followers. [ BTW my first computer was the Heathkit which I spent many an hour assembling, debugging and trying like the devil to get working! And what an expensive computer to buy in Canada. ] As Grumpy Ol? Fred wrote -> Because we have an interest in the computers that existed before y'all cared and/or we REALIZE that we came in late, and we're INTERESTED in what had already been happening. OR we're just a bunch of old farts who wish that we could go back half a century. <- To be involved in the early years of micro-computing I consider myself privileged but possibly cognition and memory are getting fuzzy. It?s not a reason to justify what I?ve written, errors committed, but may explain it as an excuse! Murray--

14 years, 2 months

1
0
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EPROM and EEPROM Programmers

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

On 30/04/2012 20:34, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Dave Wade wrote: >> I have some "TMS2532" chips. Any suggestions on how to program them (I >> have a project in mind that will need these or a similar device) > Data sheet claims pin compatibility with 2732. I would start there. > > My Willem, when powered correctly and strapped for 2732 seems to do > a 21 volt VPP. The TMS2532 data sheet says it wants 25. I don't know > if you can get away with that or not. You may want to spring for some > 27c32 chips. They have a 12.5 volt VPP and I've done lots of them on > my Willem. > > Bill S. > Thanks Bill, The clone Willem's look cheap enough to buy one to experiment with, even in the UK. I think I might just order one and give these a whirl. Dave

14 years, 2 months

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