- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Functional programming - Re: NetBSD's i386 support, was Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems

by seefriek＠gmail.com

From: Jason Howe <jason at smbfc.net> > > On Thu, 6 Jun 2013, Toby Thain wrote: > > > On 06/06/13 11:02 PM, Mouse wrote: > >> FP is an important tool, both for the sake of the tasks it _is_ a good > >> fit for and for the sake of the mind expansion learning it produces (in > >> those who do manage to get their heads around it). > > > > It's simple to teach and use. > > > This is a joke, right? > > It really is a different way of thinking that's not easy for some folks to > pick up. I'm interested to hear your your approach which makes > functional programming simple and easy. > It's not completely a joke. I live in that world these days. We've definitely found that folks whose foundation is in procedural languages (or assembly, and I count myself solidly in that crowd) have much more difficulty wrapping our brains around FP paradigms. Not all of them...some folks are just naturals and pick it right up, but it involves letting go of a lot of habits. The insult when I was coming up was "nice, you can write Fortran in C (or Pascal)". Now it's "nice, you can write C in Scheme/Python/Ruby" (and, no, I'm not interested in going down the rabbithole of whether you think Python and Ruby are FP "enough"). However, for folks coming to it fresh(er), and in particular from other disciplines (mathematics, biology, social sciences, etc.) they don't seem to have nearly as hard a time dealing with the abstractions FP brings to problem solving. For these folks, the higher level abstractions map more closely to how they're looking to solve problems, and they're getting remarkable, world impacting results (See: bioinformatics and python). Things I perhaps could, but would not want, to try and solve in C. But I wouldn't want them to write an OS. So....not just right tool for right job, but right mind/approach/adaption for right job. KJ

13 years

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286/SLT and HDDs

by brain＠jbrain.com

Good news, after dremeling the Dallase RTC and performing minor surgery to add an external coin cell battery, the 286/SLT is not complaining at me on boot. Double bonus, the 21.4MB HDD looks to be operational and boots to DOS Triple bonus, the diag disk I made works, and cleaned up all of the errors from not having a battery for so long. Quadruple bonus, I've temporarily connected a 40GB 2.5" drive, fdisked (to 528MB), formatted, and booted off said drive (regular 3.5" drives suck too much power and just overwhelmed the little PSU in the machine, even newer 160GB eco-models.) So, my questions: Is there any value in keeping the larger drive in the unit? I would like to install Windows 3.1, DOS, some utils, etc., and I don't know if all that will spill out of 21MB or not. If the larger drive is in the unit, what would be suggestions on accessing the rest of the disk? I assume DOS will never see more than 528MB, since I had to tell the BIOS it was a COMPAQ drive type 42, which is 528MB. I thought maybe Windows could see the rest of the space once out of real mode, or maybe using the DOS from Win95 and formatting FAT32 might help. I remember there being drive extenders at some point, but I never used one (thankfully, all of my machines understood LBA). Thoughts appreciated. Permanently replacing the 21MB drive means doing some soldering on the little funky power cable used in the unit, so I'd rather not mess with it unless there is some value to the additional space. Still, regardless, it lives, and research suggests the external KB connector is XT, so I can use this to test an AT->XT converter project I wanted to implement. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

13 years

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SCSI to IDE (S2I) prototype PCBs have arrived!

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi! Thanks! Sorry for the many delays. I am very behind on projects and appreciate your patience. Here is the latest information on the free/open source SCSI to IDE and SD converter. Thanks to Wayne and other builders, the early prototype is working and can emulate a Seagate ST125N 20MB SCSI-1 hard drive. In theory, the S2I should be able to emulate almost any SCSI-1 device so this is really just a "proof of concept" indicating it can and does work. We are looking for additional builders to participate in the project to help expand the capabilities of the S2I device. Especially those with legacy SCSI-1 machines willing to build and test the S2I board. http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/page/62549548/S2I%20Firmware%20Status http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=SCSI2IDE There are five (5) of the bare S2I PCBs available. The PCBs are gratis with the understanding the builder will build and test the S2I prototype board. Do you want a bare S2I PCB to build and test a prototype S2I? If so please send me your shipping address. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

13 years

1
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FORTH fans rejoice

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 11:33:55 -0700 > Subject: Re: FORTH fans rejoice > On 6/6/13 11:39 PM, Nigel Williams wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:51 AM, Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> New scans have been posted at our document archive of the Interactive >>> Computer Systems OmniFORTH manuals, as well as those for its >>> predecessor, fig-FORTH: >>> >> >> Great work! >> >> are you or is anyone tracking down the seminal FORTH implementations >> and creating a repository for preservation? >> >> >> > I'm not signing up for this, but CHM did just get a rather large donation > of > FORTH docs and a couple of the LSI FORTH boxes, to go along with about > three > boxes of docs that I bought at the last west coast VCF. > My introduction to Forth was being a member of the IEEE-1275 Open Firmware committee. I was more than a little surprised at my first meeting when the chairman, Mitch Bradley, started singing the Open Firmware Song<http://www.openfirmware.org/ofwg/misc/ofwsong.au> . -- Michael Thompson

13 years

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Old - HP 1000 Series Servers RTE - A990, A900, A700, A600, A400 - L, E, M, F servers

by jesse＠cypress-tech.com

Hello, I'm Jesse at Cypress Tech, this is a quick intro... Our company sells HP 1000, 3000, 9000, and Itanium series hardware. If anyone out there is still supporting HP 1000 and needs a supplier of parts, we can help. We have a large volume of HP 1000 parts and servers. below is a link to a site that I set up to HP 1000 series hardware hp1000 (.) us Thank you Jesse Dougherty Cypress Technology Inc jesse at cypress-tech (.) com

13 years

2
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Kobo Aura HD

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello. I have an Aura, and I have to say that the display is very good, really better if compared to Kindle PW, or Kobo Glo. And another planet respect the older 800x600 panels. The reader itself is very good for the price, it was a very good choice I think. An a good reason to take it amongs ereaders is the possibility to tweak it very easily (standard linux inside, removable internal microSD to avoid risk of bricking it, easy access to root filesystem, very well supported processor). I'm waiting to see some good application to read PDFs (with row/column mode and text reflow) ported to it. Andrea

13 years

2
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odd ball video cables

by sales＠elecplus.com

MD Sisk and Associates 781.837.6198 michael.sisk at verizon.net These guys have VGA to BNC, RCA to BNC, etc. Good people to deal with. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 (830)792-3400 phone (830)792-3404 fax AOL IM elcpls _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6390 - Release Date: 06/06/13

13 years

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a decent selection of easy to learn coding programs, starting with programs for the very young

by sales＠elecplus.com

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/how-why-teach-your-kids-code-6C10153222?li te <http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/how-why-teach-your-kids-code-6C10153222?l ite&lite=obnetwork> &lite=obnetwork _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6390 - Release Date: 06/06/13

13 years

1
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HP 9000 A500 system

by a.carlini＠ntlworld.com

There's one of these sitting at work (in the UK, near Reading) awaiting disposal. I've no idea how much interest there would be in something like this. It has an asset tag so I can't just take it, I may have to fill out some paperwork. I already have one but if someone else wants one, let me know in the next day or two (I think it's going out the door next week). AFAIK it's been powered off on the a shelf for the last 5 years at least. I've salvaged the HDD but I'll put that back in if someone is prepared to take the system. I suspect that it would be too heavy to ship (unless you have quite big pockets), and I'm not sure where I'd be able to find any sort of reasonable packaging. Antonio arcarlini at iee.org

13 years

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several OLD cables available (BC08J-10, etc)

by trash3＠splab.cas.neu.edu

Hi I have six people interested in the cables. Two responded within 30 minutes. The winner is Dave McGuire. I'll contact him as soon as I get some more free time. Thanks, Joe Heck

13 years

1
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defective floppy drives for cheap

by sales＠elecplus.com

Qty 50+ defective 5.25" drives, $2.50 plus shipping (1.2MB) Qty 20+ defective 5.25" drives, $3.00 plus shipping (360K) Qty 100+ defective 3.5" drives, $1 plus shipping (no 720K only, all are 1.44MB) Qty 20+ defective dual 5.25" and 3.5" floppy drives, 1.2 and 1.44MB, $3.50 plus shipping Problems range from won't read, won't format, won't eject properly, etc. May be missing bezels. Count on them not being cleaned up! The problems may be as simple as the drives are older than the equip we currently have to test them on, so there may be a mis-match in compatibility. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 (830)792-3400 phone (830)792-3404 fax AOL IM elcpls _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6390 - Release Date: 06/06/13

13 years

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eBook readers (was Re: [cctalk] OLD V NEW (Was: Old UNIX Systems)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:42 PM, ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote: > On 6/4/2013 5:36 PM, Liam Proven wrote: >> Mind-expanding stuff, isn't it? > > No. Ebook readers need to be 8x10. Then I could say Mind Expanding. > I could read my PDF's rather than carry around walls of books. Agreed. I am using a 7" e-paper reader for books, but it doesn't quite have enough dots to handle legibly displaying full-sized magazine scans. My requirements aren't onerous - I should be able to view a 2Kx3K image without zoom-in magnification tricks on something I can fit in my coat pocket. I would also like it to cost under $100. WiFi not required, touch screen not required, _color_ not required. I like the e-paper and I really like days between charging the device. I would just like a few more dots to display small text legibly. On the other end of the scale, I'd love an e-paper screen for C-sized (11"x17") drawings I could prop up and refer to while I was repairing DEC equipment. Even if it had a max resolution of 150dpi (though 300dpi would be ideal), it would be useful. -ethan

13 years

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Available S-100 PCBs

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi! Here is an update on available S-100 board PCBs! I've sent out many of the PCBs and they are almost gone. There are seventeen (17) of the S-100 IDE V2 reorder PCBs and one (1) S-100 LAVA PCB available. http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/IDE%20Board/My%20IDE%20Card.htm http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/Lava-10%20Board/LAVA-10%20Board .htm The S-100 PCBs cost the same as before ($20 each).? However due to unforeseen extreme price increases in shipping by USPS I am forced to change shipping costs. Shipping in the US will be $3 for a single PCB and $2 for each additional PCB.? Shipping internationally will be $10 for a single PCB and $3 for each additional PCB.? This is for the bare basics USPS first class postage with no tracking or insurance.? The builder assumes all risk of delivery as per usual arrangement. I apologize for the large price increase on shipping but this is out of my hands.? The USPS is in dire financial trouble and is raising prices on shipping.? It affects us all and is most unfortunate.? These boards are provided "at cost" so there is no margin to absorb any shipping price increases.? I have to pass them along. If you would like one or more S-100 PCBs please send a PayPal to LYNCHAJ at YAHOO.COM Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

13 years

1
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CP/M on DECmate (was Re: Stuff for rescue in Las Vegas)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan at snarc.net> wrote: > Someone contacted me about stuff for sale/rescue in Las Vegas... > >>> DecMate II with CP/M board.... I was just reading about this product last night in the manual for installing an XPU into the DECmate. The XPU has both a Z-80 and an 8086. I have the DECmate, I have the XPU and manual and test disk. What I don't have is any CP/M or DOS disks for it. I can write RX50s and have pre-formatted blanks. Is there anywhere I can go to get disk images for DECmate CP/M and/or DOS? -ethan

13 years

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several OLD cables available (BC08J-10, etc)

by trash3＠splab.cas.neu.edu

I have a total of 8 BC08 cables, and two SYKES cables. I'm cleaning out. Anybody want them for the postage? Two sets of BC08 cables made up as follows: 3 cables, BMB, BAC and AC1 labels, flipchip external bus cable connector Separate cables: 2 cables, labeled CONN1 and CONN2, also with a 4 and a 5 on them. Two other cables, markings of: SYKES 1005B0154 (on the paddle board) SYKES 1005A0155A (on the cable) one of them also has a label of M1621 IOX2 cable

13 years

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WANTED: 1970s DEC Catalogs or Price Lists

by bob＠jfcl.com

Can anyone point me to copies (online scanned documents would be fine) of the DEC Systems and Options Catalog pre 1980? Bitsavers has one from 1983, but I need something earlier. Price lists would be OK too - I'm not exactly sure when DEC started publishing the SOC. Thanks, Bob Armstrong

13 years

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Old C Code Headaches

by wlewisiii＠gmail.com

Lars & Diane: Thank you for the heads up on a.out vs ELF. The executable created by the original port still runs so there is still some support at that point so I'll go see what I can find in the system headers and perhaps I can figure out what I need to do that way. Toby: The reason to use 1.6.2 (or earlier had I been able to) was to get to an earlier version of GCC. 2.95 plays much more nicely with old code (-traditional actually works) unlike newer versions of it. I keep hoping that the various alternatives will catch up but for now it's still GCC. But you're right, I do need to see if I still have a copy of K&R "C" in the basement as it might help jog my memory. Thank you. William -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Alex White

13 years

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[cctalk] OLD V NEW (Was: Old UNIX Systems

by alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com

>> Yeah, good idea. I hesitate to mention my Dell Optiplex 760 > that's going on over 500 days... Running Linux > That's nothing. This *thread* will probably still be running by the time > you retire that system, with no increase in usefulness since it first > started. Alexandre Liked It!

13 years

1
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Canon BJ-250 problems

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

I have been having problems with the printer named in the subject line. It was working fine the other day and stopped halfway through printing something. I changed the ink cartridge, but it still doesn't work. It just beeps a few times after being switched on, with the0green light flashing. Any ideas?

13 years

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FS Cannon Micro film scanner Kent Wa. 75.00

by g-wright＠att.net

I have one of these that needs a new home. These work like a plain scanner through a PC or can print directly to a Printer. Has SCSI and Parallel ports. Does need a new lamp. Standard projector lamp. Local pick up only Info here. http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/office/micrographics/ms_400_500/micro… - Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright at att.net

13 years

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ancient marine electronics

by bthomas＠brothom.nl

I got this stuff at an auction for 12 euro. It's an Z80 based measuring device and a depth sounder transducer. You can see the pictures here: Although the Z80 based device is on-topic, I am particularly interrested to find out how to use the depth sounder. It has only 2 wires, so I assume it is some sort of element that is both an actuator and a sensor? Has anyone any info on this stuff? The transducer is a lowrance electronics TTH 1192-8.

13 years

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Old C Code Headaches

by wlewisiii＠gmail.com

So in a fit of insanity, I have a VM running NetBSD 1.6.2 (the earliest I can get to run for me under Virtual Box) that I'm trying to build the old Franz Lisp (from the 4.2BSD days) on. There was a port done by Jeff Dalton back in 1994 to i386 NetBSD .9 so there is a working executable but to get the libraries up to date requires a build. That is exposing a bunch of early '80's code that isn't working too well. Stuff like: lispval Ndumplisp() { register struct exec *workp; register lispval argptr, temp; register char *fname; extern int reborn; struct exec work, old; extern int dmpmode,usehole; extern char etext[], *curhbeg; int descrip, des2, ax,mode; extern int holesize; char tbuf[BUFSIZ]; long count, lseek(); pageseql(); pagsiz = Igtpgsz(); pagrnd = pagsiz - 1; #ifdef __NetBSD__ { /* Round the break up to a multiple of a page size */ int excess; excess = (long)sbrk(0) & pagrnd; if (excess > 0) sbrk(pagsiz - excess); } #endif /* dump mode is kept in decimal (which looks like octal in dmpmode) and is changeable via (sstatus dumpmode n) where n is 413 or 410 base 10 */ if(dmpmode == 413) mode = 0413; else if(dmpmode == 407) mode = 0407; else mode = 0410; workp = &work; workp->a_magic = mode; (and so on for much longer) Those structures aren't right & the workp-> pointers all give major complaints in GCC (dereferencing pointer to incomplete type) and it bombs out. My C is even rustier than I thought so it's driving me nuts trying to remember what's wrong. What I'm hoping is that someone can point me at is a good online reference or tool to old K&R C that I can hopefully restore my memories of what is going wrong in this and the other issues I'm sure will pop up. Thanks! William -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Alex White

13 years

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FMS computer

by seefriek＠gmail.com

From: Bert Thomas <bthomas at brothom.nl> > > Hi, > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertsfotos/8959539296/ > > This is an "FMS-5/88" computer. It looks like a VME-bus type of card, > but is completely Intel based with an 8088 and 8087. > > Does anyone know whether FMS is a similar to VME-bus? I had never heard > of FMS before. > > It think its brand is "grossenbacher elektronik", a Swiss company I think. > > Regards, > Bert > > > It looks too deep to be VME, at least standard VME. Perhaps deep enough to be Multibus II or VXI, but the interface logic doesn't look right. In all likelihood, though, it's their own thing. I've certainly made the mistake of picking up some odd bit thinking it might be VME only to find it was custom. DIN 41612 connectors got used in all sorts of things, particularly where reliability was a concern. KJ

13 years

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[cctalk] Old UNIX Systems

by seefriek＠gmail.com

> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > > On 06/04/2013 02:01 PM, Ken Seefried wrote: > > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > >> One would reasonably think so, but it generally doesn't work out that > > way. > > [rant deleted] > > > > I'm not sure what you are responding to with this, but it's certainly not > > related to what I wrote. > > Actually it was. > Perhaps in the sense that you got to my note and hit 'reply', but a rant about patching embedded systems, out-of-tree development and how everyone in management is stupid doesn't strike me as a reply to NetBSD dropping 803886 support because no one stepped up to take on the task. If that's a direct response, then all I can do is avoid eye contact, back slowly away and repeat "there's still no one, before or after support was dropped, for all the years that anyone could, who's taken on the job of keeping it in the tree, and that's the only reason it doesn't exist". I'm sure you'll find reason to dispute that, but I don't see taking the time to puzzle out the entrails of your inevitable reply for actual meaning. > > P.S. - While I get it's your standard dismissive > > line, > > It certainly isn't; I'd not treat you in that manner. That's why I > explained my point of view. > To be fair, you have a lot of standard dismissive lines: for Windows users, for people who don't much care about what processor their tool works on, for programmers who use a programming language you don't approve of, for management and a cornucopia of other ones. It is hard to keep track, but this is pretty clearly the one for people who you think don't understand embedded systems. We've seen it a lot in this thread. > > > it's a bad assumption that I don't have extensive experience with > > embedded systems and production operations. > > Likewise. > Well, given the frequency you feel the need to remind us, not like I could miss it. And, admittedly, I've not trotted out my experience to bludgeon anyone who disagrees with me. So, how could you possibly not lecture me like a schoolboy. So...point taken. KJ

13 years

2
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FMS computer

by bthomas＠brothom.nl

Hi, http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertsfotos/8959539296/ This is an "FMS-5/88" computer. It looks like a VME-bus type of card, but is completely Intel based with an 8088 and 8087. Does anyone know whether FMS is a similar to VME-bus? I had never heard of FMS before. It think its brand is "grossenbacher elektronik", a Swiss company I think. Regards, Bert

13 years

1
0
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Old - HP 1000 Series Servers RTE - A990, A900, A700, A600, A400 - L, E, M, F servers

by jesse＠cypress-tech.com

Hello, I'm Jesse at Cypress Tech, this is a quick intro... Our company sells HP 1000, 3000, 9000, and Itanium series hardware. If anyone out there is still supporting HP 1000 and needs a supplier of parts, we can help. We have a large volume of HP 1000 parts and servers. below is a link to a site that I set up with a link to an ebay site where I'm starting to post what HP 1000 hardware we have available. Its going to take me another 2-months to post all that we have so if you are interested in something that you dont see, feel free to ask me. www.hp1000.us We also sell all of the HP 9000, 3000, & Itanium servers, workstations, and related peripheral. We ship to any location in the World. Thank you Jesse Dougherty Cypress Technology Inc jesse at cypress-tech com www.cypress-tech.com

13 years

1
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[cctalk] Old UNIX Systems

by barythrin＠gmail.com

I haven't been in the semiconducter industry since the late 90s, nor was I involved with any design education but from what I saw the problems were size as you said and replacing equipment that can work on that new size transistor. Heat generated by the smaller footprint creates new problems. The metals used also can only be reliable to a certain extent with size, price, and heat. To be honest I'm pretty happy not needing to think on that scale. Last thing I read about was some sort of stacked design (although that was already the case so I'm not really sure the new aspect other than adding insulation in between layers which is also old technology). The comment on projecting displays, microsoft will likely start to publically support the already working xbox gesture thing (can't remember product name this minute) with windows. Its already had a driver created I think unofficially but I'm sure if they port it to pc it'll boost sales for both systems.

13 years

1
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bad engineers, was Re: NetBSD's i386 support, was Re: Old UNIX Systems

by barythrin＠gmail.com

I've often referred to programming to folks as a game. You have rules, and commands you give to get what you want to happen. The rest is sort of a game to put it together and get it to work right. Given I also don't finish most games and I'm not a career programmer :-) but the initial proof of concept stage for me is usually fun.

13 years, 1 month

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[cctalk] OLD V NEW (Was: Old UNIX Systems

by b4＠gewt.net

On 4 Jun 2013, at 21:13, "Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote: > > On 4 June 2013 23:29, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: >> On 06/04/2013 03:40 PM, Liam Proven wrote: >>>>>> Of course. But why I said what I said above, out of exasperation, is that >>>>>> you call architectures that are currently developed, sold, and used, and have >>>>>> been for decades, with no end in sight, "failures". That's insane. >>>>> >>>>> They went up against Intel. They used to come in a wide variety of >>>>> machines: low-end to high-end desktop, laptop, small server, big >>>>> server. >>>>> >>>>> They don't any more. Now they are high-end or nothing. >>>> >>>> ...which is where they belong. Sun *workstations* aren't needed anymore >>>> because cheap PeeCee hardware actually has usable graphics now. They didn't >>>> back then. They didn't "go up against Intel" at all...they owned that >>>> market, because of graphics capabilities, and when cheap PC hardware could do >>>> it, it did. >>> >>> OK, good. That's exactly the direction I wanted you to go. >> >> *sigh* You have more free time than anyone else I know. > > Yeah, I spend way too much time online. :( >> >>> So, my next >>> question is: what if (or more to the point,when) cheap PC hardware >>> delivers the same features & performance that SPARC and POWER do for >>> servers now? >> >> If and when something BETTER comes along, they will be displaced, of >> course. This is textbook first-year economics. > > OK, right. > >> But it has to be BETTER. > > The big question is, does it? > > Is Unix better than Lisp Machines were? Is Solaris better than Linux? > Are cheap x86 Linux servers better than SPARCs with Solaris or > RS/6000s with AIX? Is Unix better than OpenVMS? Is running your own > servers better than outsourcing it to the "cloud"? > > I would not answer an unambiguous "yes" to any of these. > > "Better" is a composite, which comes out of lots of factors - in this > context, fitness for purpose; performance; power usage; cooling > requirements; expected service life; and of course, the big one and > increasing, cost. > > At the end of the day, in most thing, cost tends to win out. > >> Clueless outfits will buy the cheap crap, just as >> they do now, and just as they always have, since it has been available. > > Sure, yes. > >> But >> where build quality and reliability matters, you won't see any eMachines (or >> similar) sitting on rackmount shelves in datacenters anytime soon. > > No. But these days, they're absolutely full of Dells. Dell is not a > byword for quality in my mind; is it to you? > > Google, of course, run more servers than anyone anywhere, and they, > famously, use bare generic motherboards in specially-designed trays in > racks and design their systems for very high redundancy and > failure-tolerance. They've run the numbers and found this is the most > economical option. > > Few are brave enough to follow them, not yet - but more and more > businesses are finding it economical to just rent capacity on demand, > in the cloud, and they have no real idea what their workloads are > running on. It could be quality kit, it could be bare boards in a rack > drawer. You don't know, but if the price is right, you buy it. And I will laugh when the "cloud" companies go under or lose all of their data. ;) > > I'd love to run Sun x86 workstations, or Macs, as my PCs, but I can't > afford to. I have PCs to earn me money, not as a hobby, so I run the > absolute cheapest kit I can and try to make sure that I always have at > least one other fallback box to go back to in the event of a system > failure. A fallback PC desktop, a Mac too, a fallback notebook, etc. > > Cheaper. > >> Do not attempt to "lead" me in this manner again. It is childish and >> petty, and it is a waste of your time and mine. Up until now I've derived >> *some* degree of enjoyment from our debates...but when you start acting like >> your predictions are automatically foregone conclusions, and then you try to >> "lead" people in this way, it just becomes little more than infuriating. > > I should not have said anything. I have been trying to learn to > improve my debating style, but I find it unexpectedly difficult. I > qualified as a TESOL (TEFL) teacher in February and in so doing I > learned an awful lot about presentation techniques and so on. Some of > them I find have application in every day life. > > Your approach to conversation and debate, Dave, is /exceptionally/ > confrontational and quickly and easily turns hostile. You are very > fast to get personal, to go for the "hey buddy, I've been doing this > for years, don't you try to tell me" response. > > I was thus trying something different, something I got from Dale > Carnegie - rather than telling you what my view was, to try to draw > you out and get you to go to the same place on your own, because as > far as I can tell, you are the sort of person who will instantly > rebuff anything you're just told, just by innate reaction, even if it > is actually something that you personally would normally agree with. > > You are possibly the most in-your-face person on this whole list, and > I was trying to avoid provoking your very common "I know better than > you so STFU" style of response. Instead, by admitting what I was > doing, I've evoked it a different way. That's a shame and I have blown > it. :?( > >> Of course that may be what you're going for. But your writing is good >> enough, and your OPINIONS are well-thought-out enough that I'm sure you're >> not a complete idiot...so I doubt you're just so bored as to spend your time >> riling people up on mailing lists. So I guess I just don't know what to make >> of you and your motivations. > > I don't really have any single identifiable set. I'm interested in > classic computing and I find this list to be one of the most > interesting places to read that I am regularly on. I find a lot of > stuff out here. Some of it, occasionally, is even useful. I've also > met a few people IRL, which has been a great extra bonus - they've all > been fascinating chaps & I enjoyed meeting them. > >>>> Be careful; that "niche" is where a lot of heavy lifting gets done. >>> >>> Yes indeed. It's turning into a commodity market, which tends to mean >>> lowest-common-denominator kit. >> >> Except where it matters. > > Not sure about that. I am seeing a general overall trend towards > commoditisation in all aspects of computing, and I do mean all. If > there are exceptions - and I am not saying that there are not - then > they are in areas that I don't know about. But there are lots of > those! > >>>> We'll >>>> see what happens in 5Y, and I suspect (and hope) that you and I will be there >>>> to discuss it, but those machines have been there for a very long time, and I >>>> don't see them going anywhere. >>> >>> Not overnight, no. But I foresee gradual shrinkage. A slow death, just >>> like Itanium. >> >> That may very well be. But if it does happen, it's a long way off. My new >> Core i7 Quad is now JUST able to keep up with my eight-year-old Sun V480 that >> I just decomissioned. At almost three times the clock rate. > > Fascinating. For what kind of workloads? What do you ascribe this to? > >> If anything >> causes "slow death" anytime soon, it's not likely to be PeeCees. It might be >> ARM, but that'd be a ways off too, for that level of performance. > > I bought into ARM in about 1989 because at that time the > price:performance was absolutely unrivalled. My ?800 2nd-hand > Archimedes A310 was /considerably/ faster than the top-of-the-range > machine my work sold at the time, an IBM PS/2 Model 70 386DX desktop > running at 25MHz with /secondary cache/ (woo!). > > The PS/2 cost about ?10,500 excluding optional extras such as a > keyboard and a copy of MS-DOS 3.3. > > Over 10? the price (OK, new versus used, but still, around that new vs > new) and somewhere around a quarter down to an eighth of the > performance. And the PS/2 didn't have a 386 in, so we're not including > FP, just plain integer performance. An 8MHz ARM2 with slow DRAM ran > *rings* around an 80386DX with cache and expensive quick RAM. > > So, yeah, back then, ARM was a performance king. At the time - I did > check, but I am not sure of my prices >25y later - the next box I > could find with integer performance similar to my Archie was a Sun > workstation costing well over ?20,000, possibly up to ?30K or even > ?40K. > > We sold Apple kit, too. We had a Mac II. It wasn't even in the ring. > The IIx that replaced it was closer and the IIfx got competitive. :?) > It was about ?15K, I think. > > But the 486 closed the gap, the Pentium equalled contemporary ARMs, > the Pentium Pro edged ahead in some tasks and around the time that the > Pentium II came out, Acorn gave up and closed down its workstation > division. Great shame. The specialist chipset, graphics, sound and OS > were just too expensive to develop and build. > > Doubly sad because on price:performance of just the CPU+RAM subsystem, > ARM still kicked Intel's butt. Or in performance:Watt, too, but that > was not an issue back then, of course; notebooks didn't really exist > yet, just clunky low-powered things like the GRID or Mac Portable. > > ARM is in the ascendant now because performance:Watt is becoming a > decisive factor, and the humble Raspberry Pi shows that it can still > score in price:performance too. But in raw performance, it hasn't got > a hope and I don't think it ever will again. > >> Or we could just wait and see. I'll keep doing it, and you keep writing >> about it. > > Well, that's the plan! > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven > MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven > Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 >

13 years, 1 month

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Stuff for rescue in Las Vegas

by evan＠snarc.net

Someone contacted me about stuff for sale/rescue in Las Vegas. I have no connection to the person and no details beyond what's in this message. Contact: Lou (grandieri at gmail.com) He wrote: >> DecMate II with CP/M board. I will have to cable it up, it been sitting in my garage for about 20+ years now. It was in excellent working condition when I last used it last. May need some dusting on the inside, wipe down outside. ? Pre-formatted RX-50 Disks. Boxed sets of all software & Manuals?for DecMate II, CP/M Software & Manuals,?Boxed Training Discs ? IBM PC (aftermarket XT, DOS, monochrome display?) -?Gently used, works, has dial-up modem ? IBM PS/2 (8086 with Intel speed chip added, DOS)?- Like New ? Diablo 1640 Daisy Wheel Printer (Serial?cable, external keyboard with cable added)?- Like New Diablo 1650?Daisy Wheel Printer (Serial Cable, with built-in keyboard) - Like New Diablo Maint.?and Operator Manuals, various font daisy wheels, extra parts, extra boards, extra power supply, tractor feed, pin feed platen?- all new ? Zentec Zyphyr ZMS-35 Smart Computer Terminal - Like New ? Panasonic Senior Partner Portable (with Manuals,?built-in printer and 2 -?5 1/4 " Drives, DOS OS, mono screen - color output) - Like New. http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/panasonic-sr-partner/

13 years, 1 month

1
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Still looking for a VT100 keyboard

by earl＠retrobits.com

Hi everybody, I've got two VT100 terminals, but only one keyboard. I'd love to have a keyboard for the second unit. If anyone has one they'd part with for a reasonable price, please drop me a line. I understand there are a few VT1xx models that had compatible keyboards. Thanks! - Earl

13 years, 1 month

7
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NRI-832 info

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- Another long shot, but does anyone here happen to have a copy of the NRI-832 assembly manual? I just acquired an 832 (see http://www.oldcomputermuseum.com/nri_832.html for more info) and it looks like assembly on itwas never completed. It's mostly there but I'm missing the 128front panel switches + PCB and so a future project will be to rebuild this portion to get the machine running. I have the technical reference and the schematicssoI should be able to make a replacement without too much issue (just a lot of soldering). I don't know if the assembly manual has PCB layouts, but if it does it'd be nice to have so I can attempt to fabricate a replacement that looks more authentic. Anyone have any idea how many of these kits were produced? It's a very early computer kit (contemporary of the Kenbak-1) so I can't imagine that there are too many of these floating around. Looking forward to getting this running and seeing what kind of fun I can have writing programs with 16 bytes of ROM and 16 bytes of RAM :). Thanks as always, - Josh

13 years, 1 month

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cctech Digest, Vol 118, Issue 4

by cruff＠ruffspot.net

On Jun 3, 2013, Tony Duell wrote: > I didn;'t reverse-engineer the 85 because the service manual is already > avaialble. It's called the 'assembly level' service manual, but it does > include full scheamtics (but no step-by-step comonnet level > troubelshooting). I didn't realize that, I'd never read through all the war to the rear! There are nice wave form and voltages indicated at various points in the circuits, which should make troubleshooting easier.

13 years, 1 month

2
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[cctalk] Old UNIX Systems

by seefriek＠gmail.com

From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > One would reasonably think so, but it generally doesn't work out that way. [rant deleted] I'm not sure what you are responding to with this, but it's certainly not related to what I wrote. P.S. - While I get it's your standard dismissive line, it's a bad assumption that I don't have extensive experience with embedded systems and production operations.

13 years, 1 month

2
1
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Odd printer cable

by jon＠jonworld.com

Folks, I found an HP C6680-80003 printer/parallel cable. It's normal, 25 pins at one end, and "mini-Centronics" at the other. I've never heard of it until I found it in my "basket of cables" and I have no idea where it came from! Is anyone interested in it? FFS from 46219. -Jon

13 years, 1 month

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cctech Digest, Vol 118, Issue 4

by cruff＠ruffspot.net

> On Mon, 3 Jun 2013, Mike Loewen wrote: > Silly question, but have you actually looked at the belts? On my > 9895A, both belts had fallen off, due to rough handling. Yes, I have the top cover off, and can see the belt is in place and the floppy medium is turning until the head loads, and starts turning again when the head unloads. I'll have to measure the length around the pulleys and order one up.

13 years, 1 month

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[cctalk] Look at CUA

by cubexyz＠gmail.com

People may not be aware that a lot of the ideas for Motif/CDE and Windows and later versions of MSDOS actually came from IBM's Common User Access. Not everything came from CUA, but a good chunk of it did. Microsoft's windows 95 didn't invent all that. The task bar itself appeared earlier in Arthur OS, I think it was back in 1987. Even Amiga's Workbench had a lot of the GUI elements although in a more primitive form. Did the KDE guys make their DE look a lot like win95? Yeah, I think they did. So did IceWM and probably other ones. Icewm has a lot of differences though, it's a lot more light-weight. But even with KDE 3.5.X there's a bunch of things that are different from win95... On 6/3/13, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote: > On 3 June 2013 19:55, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: >> On 06/03/2013 02:41 PM, Liam Proven wrote: >>>> I live in a VERY high-tech >>>> area and even I don't see stuff like that given away. (well, actually, >>>> thinking about that a bit more...There are "clueful" people around >>>> here; >>>> stuff like C2D machines are more likely to be found running Linux or >>>> NetBSD >>>> around here.) >>> >>> It's rare and I got lucky. Also, I think some people recognise my name >>> from my written stuff. >> >> Hey, whatever it takes! >> >>> (Pimps new article: >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/03/thank_microsoft_for_linux_desktop_f… >>> ) >> >> Very well-written as always, but this time I couldn't get past the >> first >> paragraph. I have great difficulty imagining a day when I could do my job >> on >> a tablet. > > Then don't. > > Imagine it's a laptop. Imagine it's a dual-head desktop with 24" > displays. Whatever it takes. > > For now, the old form-factors will stick around, but in a decade, if a > "PC" is a flexible A4 tablet, the thickness and weight of thick card, > which connects wirelessly to its peripherals and is driven by touch, > speech and the view from its multiple cameras, I submit that few will > prop it in a stand and drive it from a keyboard. But some will, and I > am sure that for them it will be perfectly possible - possibly driving > a tiled array of large screens which are the thickness (and > approximate power-draw) of paper and similarly can be rolled up for > transport or storage. > > Computers are shrinking and using less power. This is more or less a > fact of life. They are not going to remain humming beige desk-side > boxes; those are already in decline, have been for a few years now, > and it's steepening. > >> The press (as a whole) really needs to understand that "what sells best >> in >> department stores" does not define the entirety of, or even a significant >> part of, society's computing activities. Everything is WAY too tainted >> by >> journalists' personal (and sometimes myopic) points of view, something >> that >> journalism is, well, sorta supposed to be about not doing. > > You're right. In businesses, increasingly, the beige boxes are being > replaced by graphical terminals to OS instances running in VMs on > remote hosts. > >> But either way...fantastic writing, as always. > > Thank you. > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven > MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven > Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 > >

13 years, 1 month

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Another original Apple I sells for an insane amount

by tothwolf＠concentric.net

Vintage Apple-1 Sells for Record $671,400 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/25/vintage-apple-1-sells-for-record-6… Whoever bought the thing from Mr. Hatfield earlier this year really should be ashamed of himself. I for one hope someone out there could at least send Mr. Hatfield one of the Apple I replicas.

13 years, 1 month

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My Epson TF-20 booting (but not on YouTube)

by fjkraan＠xs4all.nl

On 2013-05-31 20:50, ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Have you looked at the hardware and the system tracks on the disk? This > thing, for all it claims to be the disk drive for the HX20, etc, is > actually a full Z80-based computer running something very close to CP/M > (!). I often wonder how hard it would be to use it as such (there's a > second serial poot too, if you need it). Yes. fasinating. I am trying to disassemble it, but started with the boot ROM. The TFDOS as it is called, will be next. As it has everything; enough RAM, disk controller, serial port, there should be no reason why it should not work. I might try it, maybe even before retirement ;-). With the information in "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook" it should be no problem. > > -tony > Fred Jan

13 years, 1 month

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DEC collectors--input needed

by sales＠elecplus.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:DEC_hardware If I send this entire list to the recyclers to watch out for, which items on this list of 73 things are NOT wanted? Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 (830)792-3400 phone (830)792-3404 fax AOL IM elcpls _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6369 - Release Date: 05/30/13

13 years, 1 month

10
11
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HP C8000 HP-UX

by mnusa2＠hotmail.com

Hello to all HP-UX fans. I got one HP C8000 but my 2003 HP-UX 11i.v1 CD fails to install. Can anybody inform me where to get the proper version? HP workstations are licensed to run HP-UX so that should not be an issue as far as I know. Download of image would be all that is needed. BR, Matti > From: cctalk-request at classiccmp.org > Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 118, Issue 2 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 06:28:54 -0500 > > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > cctalk at classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctalk-request at classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: OT: rubber drive belts (Jules Richardson) > 2. Re: MSBBC - Re: Next box with 1991 web page(s) password > protected (Liam Proven) > 3. Re: UK, Scotalnd, and Ireland reyclers (Sander Reiche) > 4. Re: DEC collectors--input needed (Sander Reiche) > 5. Re: [cctalk] Re: DEC collectors--input needed (Dave McGuire) > 6. Re: DEC collectors--input needed (Philipp Hachtmann) > 7. Re: Atari Dump to be excavated? (Martin Goldberg) > 8. Re: Still looking for a home - RA81 parts (Alan Perry) > 9. Re: Atari Dump to be excavated? (Liam Proven) > 10. Re: Atari Dump to be excavated? (mc68010) > 11. Casetek 1018 rails wanted (TeoZ) > 12. Re: [cctalk] Re: pdp11/93 mod (Jules Richardson) > 13. Re: Spec of Motorola 7339 Transistor (Tony Duell) > 14. Re: OT: rubber drive belts (Tony Duell) > 15. Re: My Epson TF-20 booting (but not on YouTube) (Tony Duell) > 16. Re: My Epson TF-20 booting (but not on YouTube) (Fred Jan Kraan) > 17. RE: Spec of Motorola 7339 Transistor (Robert Jarratt) > 18. Re: OT: rubber drive belts (Chuck Guzis) > 19. Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems (Tothwolf) > 20. Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems (Jochen Kunz) > 21. Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems (Mouse) > 22. Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems (Cory Smelosky) > 23. Re: Another original Apple I sells for an insane amount > (randy at randy.kindig.name) > 24. HP-85A/B display and power supply schematics? (Craig Ruff) > 25. Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems (Tothwolf) > 26. Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems (Mouse) > 27. Re: pdp11/93 mod (Holm Tiffe) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 11:12:12 -0500 > From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: rubber drive belts > Message-ID: <51AA1D5C.70908 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > On 05/31/2013 10:29 AM, Rich Cini wrote: > > I get my belts at turntableneedles.com. They have a wide selection of belts and a good cross reference. > > > > Oh, and they carry turntable needles too. > > :-) Thanks, they look useful. This is an old Admiral unit (good ol' 70's > styling, and dreadful internal build quality!) and things are hampered by > the fact that they seemed to re-use the model number for a later turntable, > making searches difficult. > > Because the drive pulley is crowned I can't use their string method, but > I'll be able to get calipers on the pulleys and work out the belt length > using their diameters and distance between them. > > cheers > > J. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 18:14:22 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: MSBBC - Re: Next box with 1991 web page(s) password > protected > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCEQ8NLotH1MAhzHYmVx=LBTYdzZp0N8piMOv4m_rUYP9Q at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > On 25 May 2013 02:48, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote: > > On 24/05/13 9:18 PM, Liam Proven wrote: > >> > >> On 25 May 2013 02:09, Toby Thain<toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote: > >>> > >>> The BBC has been thoroughly infiltrated by ex-Microsoft executives, in a > >>> very quiet takeover that few Britons have apparently noticed. > >> > >> > >> > >> I heard - today, actually - that the ex-'Softie boss just got fired. > >> There's some hope. > >> > > > > There isn't just one, but that's a start. :) > > True enough, but as you say... :?) > > "BBC abandons ?100m digital project" > "John Linwood, the BBC's chief technology officer, has been suspended." > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22651126 > > Also see: > http://www.cio.co.uk/news/cio-career/bbc-cto-john-linwood-suspended-over-10… > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven > MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven > Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:21:16 +0200 > From: Sander Reiche <sander.reiche at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: UK, Scotalnd, and Ireland reyclers > Message-ID: > <CACStewYDiS1GPpgKbr+z-zzj4bWHT3s+X1fGqatQmp3G=4tbVg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Do you know of any companies like this in the Netherlands that might be > persuaded as well? > > Kind regards, > > Sander Reiche > the Netherlands > > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus < > sales at elecplus.com> wrote: > > > For those of you looking for recyclers in the UK where you might be able to > > scrounge, or ask them to save interesting bits, please take a look at this > > company. They caught my interest because they exclusively employ > > disabled/disadvantaged workers. Nice to see a company that helps others > > out! > > > > About Haven Recycle > > Haven Recycle is a social enterprise based in Glasgow which runs a Waste > > Electrical & Electronic Equipment (WEEE) recycling and asset recovery > > operation. We are part of the Rehab Recycle group, servicing a number of > > large public and private sector organisations including Dell, Microsoft and > > the NHS. > > > > The services we offer include removal and disposal of all waste electrical > > equipment, secure data destruction both on and off site, office clearouts, > > asset recovery and re-marketing. We will seek to achieve maximum value from > > your waste material, with the absolute minimum going to landfill. The aim > > being wherever possible to reuse, and recycle all Waste Electrical and > > Electronic Equipment. All work undertaken is fully compliant with all > > relevant legislation, and carried out to the highest possible standards > > demanded by the market. > > > > While operating as a business, Haven Recycle is also a social enterprise; > > our unique attribute being that the majority of our highly skilled and > > comprehensively trained workforce comprises of disabled and disadvantaged > > adults. We carry out ongoing programmes of training and integration to > > ensure that all our work is carried out to the highest possible standards > > demanded by the market, and our impressive client list is a testament to > > this. As such our customers can contribute significantly to their Corporate > > Social Responsibility (CSR) simply by engaging Haven Recycle as a supplier. > > Specialties > > WEEE Recycling, Asset Recovery, Information Security Management, Corporate > > Social Responsibility, Data Destruction - on & off site, CESG Approved Data > > Erasure - on & off site, ISO 9001 accredited, ISO 14001 accredited, SEPA > > Waste Management License: WML/L/1099035 > > . Headquarters 6 - 8 Watt Road Hillington Park Glasgow, G52 4RY > > United Kingdom > > . Website http://www.havenrecycle.co.uk > > . Industry Renewables & Environment > > . Type Nonprofit > > . Company Size 11-50 employees > > . Founded 1946 > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > > Alex Charlie Anthony Money > > Director > > Reclaim Services > > Phone:+44( 0 )162-2236205 / + 44 (0) 1 622 766 300 > > Fax: 0704 301 8422 > > Charlie at reclaim-uk.com / amoney at reclaim-uk.com > > AOL/ICQ IM: AnthonyLM1 > > MS IM: Anthony at reclaim-uk > > Skype: AnthonyMoney > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > > Steven Martin > > Sales > > Sims Recycling Solutions > > Phone: 01387723011 > > steve.martin at simsmm.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > _______________ > > Grace Spillane > > Sales Executive > > WiseTek Solutions Ltd. > > Skype Online Number: +353 (0)1 4433958 > > Tel: +353 (0)21 4556940 > > Tel: +353 (0)21 2353790 > > Skype Name: gracewisetek > > Web: www.wisetek.ie > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________ > > Anthony Watmore > > TechniMove Recycles LTD > > Phone: 00 44 7949 752252 > > sales at tmoverecycles.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > _______________ > > A2C Services Ltd. > > E mail : rod.neale at a2c.co.uk > > MSN IM : rod1111 at hotmail.com > > AOL IM : A2C SERVICES > > Skype: rodneale > > Tel: +44 (0)1730 890232 > > Fax: +44 (0)1730 890233 > > A2C Services Ltd, Snatch House, Farnham Road, Liss, Hampshire, England GU33 > > 6JZ > > Website Address: www.a2c.co.uk > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6369 - Release Date: 05/30/13 > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:28:16 +0200 > From: Sander Reiche <sander.reiche at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: DEC collectors--input needed > Message-ID: > <CACStewagAo2R5r47VD86Hox=qOcv47OosgPKEs1wYxLgWv16-w at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > > > a really low-end VAXstation 3100 > > > Hey, watch it, buddy! ;) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 14:35:17 -0400 > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: DEC collectors--input needed > Message-ID: <51AA3EE5.9010808 at neurotica.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 06/01/2013 02:28 PM, Sander Reiche wrote: > >> a really low-end VAXstation 3100 > > > > > > Hey, watch it, buddy! ;) > > Them's FIGHTIN' WORDS! > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 20:38:03 +0200 > From: Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: DEC collectors--input needed > Message-ID: <51AA3F8B.5080505 at hachti.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Am 31.05.2013 19:53, schrieb Tom Gardner: > > > Not on the list are the RP01, RP02 and/or RPR02 disk drives made by Memorex > > for DEC. > > Oh: Does anybody have some cartridges for my RP02 and RP03 drives?!? > > Regards, > > Philipp > > > > > -- > > > Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Philipp Hachtmann > Buchdruck, Bleisatz, Spezialit?ten > > Alemannstr. 21, D-30165 Hannover > Tel. 0511/3522222, Mobil 0171/2632239 > Fax. 0511/3500439 > hachti at hachti.de > www.tiegeldruck.de > > UStdID DE 202668329 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 07:18:41 -0500 > From: Martin Goldberg <wgungfu at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Atari Dump to be excavated? > Message-ID: > <CAE5DTME_YvSkyP4_Qr2LU-q1eB28bXXX+0KkJaZ-z1FV==pWdQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > This is a non-issue publicity stunt. We already cleared that up in our > book "Atari Inc. - Business Is Fun" released last fall, going by > direct interviews and actual internal documents. > > There were never thousands of ET games buried in Alamorgodo, that's a > myth that sprung up later and was also never once mentioned by the > actual press articles of the time. The dump there was simply a > clearing out of Atari's Texas manufacturing plant as it transitioned > to automated production methods and a focus on personal computer > manufacturing. It had previously been one of the main plants for > manufacturing of game cartridges and other hardware, and game > manufacturing was being moved overseas to China. > > As part of the transition the unused cartridge stock of a group of > titles (not just E.T.), console parts and computer parts were all > dumped there in New Mexico. It was covered in detail by the Alamogordo > press at the time as well, and is just such a non-mystery that I'm > surprised by all this. > > > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:46 PM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote: > > > > "This week, Canada-based game developer Fuel Industries got approval > > from the city of Alamogordo, New Mexico, to excavate the site of the > > so-called Atari Dump -- a desert landfill where the famous video > > game manufacturer Atari buried hundreds of tons of broken and > > outdated merchandise in 1983." > > > > <http://westerndigs.blogspot.com/2013/05/new-mexicos-atari-dump-midden-of-vi…>http://westerndigs.blogspot.com/2013/05/new-mexicos-atari-dump-midden-of-vi… > > > > - John > > > > > > -- > Marty > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 09:05:11 -0700 > From: Alan Perry <aperry at snowmoose.com> > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Still looking for a home - RA81 parts > Message-ID: <51AA1BB7.8080503 at snowmoose.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 5/31/13 6:21 AM, Michael Thompson wrote: > > Is the optical sensor still on the bottom of the HDA? > > The RICM has a bunch of RA81 drives that don't generate the pulses from the > > spindle sensor. > No, the HDA was stripped bare. > > I do have the spindle. > > I also have 3 RA82s and another RA81 (that goes to Dave McGuire once we > figure out how to get it there without hurting it (within his budget)). > > alan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:37:32 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Atari Dump to be excavated? > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCEM3O8feL260CWpJyG1AcVjC4QwPJeKE9p+poXgm4J5+w at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > On 1 June 2013 13:18, Martin Goldberg <wgungfu at gmail.com> wrote: > > This is a non-issue publicity stunt. We already cleared that up in our > > book "Atari Inc. - Business Is Fun" released last fall, going by > > direct interviews and actual internal documents. > > > > There were never thousands of ET games buried in Alamorgodo, that's a > > myth that sprung up later and was also never once mentioned by the > > actual press articles of the time. The dump there was simply a > > clearing out of Atari's Texas manufacturing plant as it transitioned > > to automated production methods and a focus on personal computer > > manufacturing. It had previously been one of the main plants for > > manufacturing of game cartridges and other hardware, and game > > manufacturing was being moved overseas to China. > > > > As part of the transition the unused cartridge stock of a group of > > titles (not just E.T.), console parts and computer parts were all > > dumped there in New Mexico. It was covered in detail by the Alamogordo > > press at the time as well, and is just such a non-mystery that I'm > > surprised by all this. > > > Please bottom-quote. It's dead easy in Gmail, even in "new compose" - > just press Ctrl-A to "select all" then trim & reply beneath. > > Anyway, reading between the lines, it seems clear where all those ETs > went, anyway. > > Area 51. > > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven > MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven > Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 12:43:06 -0700 > From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Atari Dump to be excavated? > Message-ID: <51AA4ECA.4050909 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 6/1/2013 5:18 AM, Martin Goldberg wrote: > > This is a non-issue publicity stunt. We already cleared that up in our > > book "Atari Inc. - Business Is Fun" released last fall, going by > > direct interviews and actual internal documents. > > > > There were never thousands of ET games buried in Alamorgodo, > <snip> > > > > As part of the transition the unused cartridge stock of a group of > > titles (not just E.T.), console parts and computer parts were all > > dumped there in New Mexico. > > > So, there were or there weren't ET cartridges and such dumped there ? > Are you only arguing the number of ET cartridges ? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 15:44:20 -0400 > From: "TeoZ" <teoz at neo.rr.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Casetek 1018 rails wanted > Message-ID: <68B744A8C55A499AA0E3D73A550A938D at TeoPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Anybody in the US happen to have spare drive rails for a Casetek 1018 case? The 3.5? ones are model 1018205 and the 5.25? ones are 1018202. If so let me know what you have an how much you want for them. > > Thanks > > TZ. > > P.S. I hate custom mounting rails in cases. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 14:50:50 -0500 > From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: pdp11/93 mod > Message-ID: <51AA509A.7070307 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > On 05/30/2013 01:25 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > >> An F11 chipset clocked at 16GHz...it'd turn into a fireball. ;) > > > > Nah. Just cool it with superfluid helium. > > Run it in a bath of whale oil. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:24:40 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Spec of Motorola 7339 Transistor > Message-ID: <m1UirPy-000J4ZC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Don't worry, I wouldn't be so rash as to short the fuses. I know Farnell > > have them but I don't currently have enough to warrant an order from them, > > for one of the fuses Farnell only had US stock. I could pop into RS in the > > I am suprised about that. I thought the fuses in a Model 33 were all common > types that you coudl get almost anywhere. What is this difficult-to-get one? > > > morning to save on shipping (can't remember if they open Saturday morning, > > can't check now because their web site seems to be down for maintenance). I > > did look at Maplin as well but they did not have what I need. I'll take a > > look at Cricklewood too > > ricklewood are useful to me becuase they're near enough for me to go > there and pick u pthe bits I need. Very useful when I've run out of > 74LS00s or something. I am not sure I;d use them for mail orde -- not > that I don't trunt them, I certainly do, but if I am going to go to the > toruble of making and order nad waiting for it to come I might as well go > to Farnell. > > -tony > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:57:36 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: rubber drive belts > Message-ID: <m1Uirvq-000J4eC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Because the drive pulley is crowned I can't use their string method, but > > I'll be able to get calipers on the pulleys and work out the belt length > > using their diameters and distance between them. > > Reminds me of soemthing I wrote i nthe HPCC magazine when I described how > to repair the HP9810/HP9820 internal card reader. The belt on that is a > simpe O-rign running on grooved pulleys > > Toe find the size of the O-ring, I said that a practical person would run > a bit of string round the pulleys, mark it and measure it. A calculator > hacker would measure the diameter of the pulleys and the spacing between > the spinles and use the belt length program in the HP67 or HP41 > Mechancial Engnieering Pac. As I then went on to say, I am both, so I > did both. Fortuantely the answeres agreed to within the accuracy of the > measurements. Even more fortuately that size of O-ring works in the reader. > > -tony > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:31:36 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: fjkraan at xs4all.nl (Fred Jan Kraan) > Cc: cctech at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My Epson TF-20 booting (but not on YouTube) > Message-ID: <m1UirWg-000J4cC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > > On 2013-05-31 20:50, ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > > > > > > Have you looked at the hardware and the system tracks on the disk? This > > > thing, for all it claims to be the disk drive for the HX20, etc, is > > > actually a full Z80-based computer running something very close to CP/M > > > (!). I often wonder how hard it would be to use it as such (there's a > > > second serial port too, if you need it). > > > > Yes. fasinating. I am trying to disassemble it, but started with the > > boot ROM. The TFDOS as it is called, will be next. > > I asusme you have a dump of the boot ROM? If not I think I can find it. > > > As it has everything; enough RAM, disk controller, serial port, there > > should be no reason why it should not work. I might try it, maybe even > > before retirement ;-). With the information in "The Programmer's CP/M > > Handbook" it should be no problem. > > It should eb fairly easy. There's absolutely nothign custum on there. All > standard chips, easy to get data sheets for them. A schematic exists, so > figurign ot uthe addresses of the I/O devices is not hard either. > > I have never looked, there is that second serial port at TTL levels (th > TXDB and RSDB piads on the serial daughterboard). Does anything ever come > out of there in normal operation? > > -tony > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 23:12:25 +0200 > From: Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl> > To: Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > Cc: cctech at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My Epson TF-20 booting (but not on YouTube) > Message-ID: <51AA63B9.40203 at xs4all.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 2013-06-01 21:31, Tony Duell wrote: > > >> > >> Yes. fasinating. I am trying to disassemble it, but started with the > >> boot ROM. The TFDOS as it is called, will be next. > > > > I asusme you have a dump of the boot ROM? If not I think I can find it. > > Yes, I have it: > http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/comp/tf20/TFX.zip > > > > > It should eb fairly easy. There's absolutely nothign custum on there. All > > standard chips, easy to get data sheets for them. A schematic exists, so > > figurign ot uthe addresses of the I/O devices is not hard either. > > > > I have never looked, there is that second serial port at TTL levels (th > > TXDB and RSDB piads on the serial daughterboard). Does anything ever come > > out of there in normal operation? > > Only this evening I realized, based on your remark on the extra serial > port, that channel A is used for both host (HX-20) and 2nd TF-20 and > channel B is not used. So connecting my TTL-to-USB to the TXDB and RXDB > and boot the TF-20: alas no output or any reaction to Enter, Esc or Ctrl-C. > By now I know the boot ROM does initialize channel B, but does not write > to it. Apparantly TFDos doesn't either. > > > > -tony > > > > Fred Jan > > P.S. The boot ROM disassembly so far: > http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/comp/tf20/TFX.asm > > P.P.S.S. The movie I made of the SD-321 voice coil on the exerciser: > http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/comp/tf20/sd-321_stepping.mpeg > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 22:28:17 +0100 > From: "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Spec of Motorola 7339 Transistor > Message-ID: <00d001ce5f0e$f0418650$d0c492f0$(a)ntlworld.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > > Sent: 01 June 2013 20:25 > > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Spec of Motorola 7339 Transistor > > > > > Don't worry, I wouldn't be so rash as to short the fuses. I know > > > Farnell have them but I don't currently have enough to warrant an > > > order from them, for one of the fuses Farnell only had US stock. I > > > could pop into RS in the > > > > I am suprised about that. I thought the fuses in a Model 33 were all > common > > types that you coudl get almost anywhere. What is this difficult-to-get > one? > > I just realised that perhaps Maplin do have some of what I want, it is that > they aren't listed as 32mm, but as 1.1/4. But they don't have the 375mA one > (although my machine actually had a 315ma one, but Maplin don't have that > either), the nearest is 250mA. > > Regards > > Rob > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 17:35:32 -0700 > From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: OT: rubber drive belts > Message-ID: <51AA9354.8080407 at sydex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > If you're looking for small quantities of replacement belts, check out > the eBay seller "isellprojectorbelts". He's got quite an inventory. > > If it's a "price is no object" affair, try > > http://www.bpbincorporated.com/about.htm > > Their minimum order is about $125, but they can make belts to order. > > --Chuck > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 22:27:09 -0500 (CDT) > From: Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems > Message-ID: > <alpine.DEB.2.00.1306012207170.2493 at brioche.invalid.domain> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Sat, 1 Jun 2013, Liam Proven wrote: > > On 30 May 2013 21:19, Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> wrote: > > > >> Memory wise, the kernel isn't /too/ bad, but userspace stuff, both > >> memory and disk wise, modern Linux distributions are /terrible/. > > > > Not *all* of them. Have you tried TinyCore? > > > > http://www.tinycorelinux.net/ > > > > The base system is about 12MB: > > http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tinycore > > > > There's a text-only 8MB version: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Core_Linux > > It isn't quite what I'm looking for. I've yet to find a currently > maintained Linux distribution that does what I need and isn't bloated in > userspace. I'm looking more for what a Linux distribution once was in the > late 1990s, with full (advanced) networking support, plus normal network > services, and still have a small userspace footprint (and low memory > usage). A GUI is non-essential and for both space and security reasons > (note all the recent X and X-libraries security bulletins) and I'd prefer > to be able to leave it out completely in many applications. > > Are there /any/ currently maintained Linux distributions out there these > days that are geared towards embedded use where they don't blindly assume > multiple GB of memory and drive space? Surely I'm not the only one looking > for something like this? > > The lack of i386 support with TC isn't very encouraging, either (they > state i486 as a minimum, which is the same as modern Debian, et al.) I > have boxes upon boxes of i386 stuff and I'd hate to at some point have to > create a separately maintained fork of the Linux kernel just to keep them > supported (everything from Intel 80386SX-16 to AMD 386DX-40, with and > without FPUs). The idea of using either an obsolete (and likely > unmaintained) Linux kernel or MS-DOS on them isn't terribly appealing. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 09:28:00 +0200 > From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems > Message-ID: > <20130602092800.442600524b1bb31be2b5584f at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 22:27:09 -0500 (CDT) > Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> wrote: > > > I'm looking more for what a Linux distribution once was in the > > late 1990s, with full (advanced) networking support, plus normal network > > services, and still have a small userspace footprint (and low memory > > usage). A GUI is non-essential and for both space and security reasons > > (note all the recent X and X-libraries security bulletins) and I'd prefer > > to be able to leave it out completely in many applications. > What you are looking for is NetBSD. > \begin{troll} > NetBSD is the reference implementation of The Unix Paradigm. > > Linux used to be a free Unix for Unix enthusiasts. > Today it is a bad Windows (MacOS X) surrugate for point and drool lusers. > \end{troll} > ;-) > -- > > > \end{Jochen} > > \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/} > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 03:59:48 -0400 (EDT) > From: Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems > Message-ID: <201306020759.DAA12793 at Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >> I'm looking more for what a Linux distribution once was in the late > >> 1990s, [...] > > > What you are looking for is NetBSD. > > Maybe. In particular, if you want 386 support, you'll be stuck with > older versions. (Mind you, I personally don't see anything wrong with > that; I run 1.4T on those of my machines which don't need something > newer for hardware-support reasons.) > > > \begin{troll} > > NetBSD is the reference implementation of The Unix Paradigm. > > Troll indeed. :-) > > I'd say it _once was_ the reference etc. It's been headed downhill for > a long time, though; I now see it as trying to take on Linux at its own > game (desktop market share), and, of course, losing - and, in the > process, alienating the user base its former strengths attracted. > > /~\ The ASCII Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2013 08:04:00 -0000 > From: "Cory Smelosky" <b4 at gewt.net> > To: Mouse <mouse at rodents-montreal.org> > Cc: cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems > Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306020403470.3310 at maelona> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, Mouse wrote: > > > > >>> I'm looking more for what a Linux distribution once was in the late > >>> 1990s, [...] > > > >> What you are looking for is NetBSD. > > > > Maybe. In particular, if you want 386 support, you'll be stuck with > > older versions. (Mind you, I personally don't see anything wrong with > > that; I run 1.4T on those of my machines which don't need something > > newer for hardware-support reasons.) > > > >> \begin{troll} > >> NetBSD is the reference implementation of The Unix Paradigm. > > > > Troll indeed. :-) > > > > I'd say it _once was_ the reference etc. It's been headed downhill for > > a long time, though; I now see it as trying to take on Linux at its own > > game (desktop market share), and, of course, losing - and, in the > > process, alienating the user base its former strengths attracted. > > Yup...it's very unfortunate. :( > > > > > /~\ The ASCII Mouse > > \ / Ribbon Campaign > > X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org > > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > > -- > Cory Smelosky > http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff > http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 17:37:05 -0400 > From: randy at randy.kindig.name > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Another original Apple I sells for an insane amount > Message-ID: > <d9aa1ab1717005f12ad09c9c3e411e20.squirrel at mail.randy.kindig.name> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > Unsubscribe please > > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Another original Apple I sells for an insane amount > > From: "Brent Hilpert" <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > > Date: Sun, May 26, 2013 1:26 pm > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > More interesting than the Apple I IMO is the SCELBI-8H listed on the > > > same site: > > > > > > http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/17377290_scelbi-8h-mini- > > > computer-1973 > > > > > > Looks like it was sold on the same auction day. If anybody sees what > > > it went for it would be interesting to hear. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 16:34:14 -0600 > From: Craig Ruff <cruff at ruffspot.net> > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Subject: HP-85A/B display and power supply schematics? > Message-ID: <1ACF2BED-CFA5-443C-BC71-A0EC342FC599 at ruffspot.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Has anyone managed to create schematics for the display and power supply for the HP-85A/B? I don't know yet if Tony's schematics for the 87 are applicable or possibly close enough for these boards. > > I have both an 85A and 85B with identical display issues, which I expect are due to old capacitors causing poor voltage regulation and/or ripple. The pincushion test looks pretty good, except for a bit of vertical displacement (think low amplitude waves) on the horizontal lines. The second issue is when a lot of white is being displayed (i.e. reverse video), there is a distinct narrowing in the scan line width in the top inch or so, with the narrowest at the first scan line. Then there is a gradual widening towards the bottom, with the lowest scan lines ending up off the sides of the phosphor. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 04:55:23 -0500 (CDT) > From: Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems > Message-ID: > <alpine.DEB.2.00.1306020425590.2493 at brioche.invalid.domain> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 22:27:09 -0500 (CDT) > > Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> wrote: > > > >> I'm looking more for what a Linux distribution once was in the late > >> 1990s, with full (advanced) networking support, plus normal network > >> services, and still have a small userspace footprint (and low memory > >> usage). A GUI is non-essential and for both space and security reasons > >> (note all the recent X and X-libraries security bulletins) and I'd > >> prefer to be able to leave it out completely in many applications. > > > > What you are looking for is NetBSD. > > \begin{troll} > > NetBSD is the reference implementation of The Unix Paradigm. > > > > Linux used to be a free Unix for Unix enthusiasts. > > Today it is a bad Windows (MacOS X) surrugate for point and drool lusers. > > \end{troll} > > ;-) > > Meh, I think not. I'm trying to cut down on the number of different > platforms I have to maintain, not add another. ippool also wouldn't really > be a suitable replacement for the way I use ipset, and the idea of trying > to use pf in place of ebtables and iptables for bridge-mode firewalling is > very unappealing. In fact, if I had to switch to something else, I'd > probably go with OpenBSD (which I already use for other stuff) over NetBSD > given OpenBSD's hardware support. > > I plan to stick with Linux for most embedded applications, but the > widespread assumption by many userspace "developers" that everyone has 4GB > or 8GB of ram and a 2TB hard drive isn't helping anyone except help > hardware companies sell newer gear year after year. > > Right now there seems to be a gap in the market for a Linux distribution > tailored for small/embedded systems which is also easy to maintain/update > with a halfway decent package management system. I have nothing against > pkgsrc, Ports, etc, but when you are dealing with lots of different > systems, and especially those with limited CPU/memory/storage, compiling > everything from scratch (as with Gentoo) just isn't a viable solution. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 06:40:47 -0400 (EDT) > From: Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems > Message-ID: <201306021040.GAA10348 at Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > [W]hen you are dealing with lots of different systems, and especially > > those with limited CPU/memory/storage, compiling everything from > > scratch (as with Gentoo) just isn't a viable solution. > > I don't see why not; it's how I set up my own machines. > > ...well, I don't know how limited your "limited" is. I have a few > machines too small to self-host; those, I simply don't run a > full-fledged OS on. Perhaps this stance simply reflects a gap in my > computer collection, the sort of thing for which 256K or 512K of RAM is > a reasonable memory load - I don't really have anything between the > really tiny machines with the likes of 256 bytes of RAM and 8K of flash > and full-blown machines with 16 or 32 megs of RAM and at least a few > gigs of disk. > > /~\ The ASCII Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 12:42:47 +0200 > From: Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: pdp11/93 mod > Message-ID: <20130602104246.GA51212 at beast.freibergnet.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > allison wrote: > > > On 05/30/2013 03:09 AM, Holm Tiffe wrote: > > >Roe Peterson wrote: > > > > > >>Does anyone have information regarding modifying a pdp11/93 cpu to run > > >>at 20Mhz? It's been mentioned on a couple of web pages, but I can't > > >>seem to find details. > > >> > > >>Thanks! > > >> > > >> > > >>-- > > >There isn't much of detail to tell, simply replace the 18Mhz Xtal > > >against a 20Mhz one, but be warned, the CPU isn't the only limiting > > >factor for the speed, the Gate Arrays and the FPU are also involved. > > >Maybe you toast them while overclocking.. > > > > > >I've changed th 15Mhz Xtal from an 11/73 CPU to 18Mhz to get a 11/83.. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >Holm > > The biggest thing with that kind of speedup is first its a trivial > > amount and > > the other is if you go too far system reliability will be poor and show > > up as > > unexpected crashes with known solid software (data errors). > > > > That said I've pushed the clock on 11/23 board once too see and the 13mhz > > clock was wound up to 25mhz using a external source. I started seeing > > errors above 18mhz but they were random, seems bus timing and memory > > timing all had to be happy and I was pushing the margins. I eventually > > put in a clock module for 15.8mhz as I had one. For that it was a modest > > speed up as the 11/23 is slower to start with. > > > > Generally overclocking is problematic because the system timing is based > > on it > > and there may be items other than the CPU that have lower limits. > > > > Allison > > Yes. In my case I've changed the older J11 to one of the last available > revisions (-09?) to be at least sure that it meets the specifications. > I don't had another FPU Chip so the FPU and the Gate Arrays are the 15Mhz > Versions. Tested the entire Machine with all available Test Programms on > xxdp to be sore the entire system works as expected...no error so far.. > > Regards, > > Holm > > -- > Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, > Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 > www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741 > > > > End of cctalk Digest, Vol 118, Issue 2 > **************************************

13 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

9895A motor belt?

by cruff＠ruffspot.net

I have just got around to testing my 9895A with two drives. One drive works fine, the second fails to spin the floppy when the heads load. My guess is that the belt is stretched, and I don't yet know if there is sufficient adjustment available to take up the slack. Does anyone know the specs of these belts and where one might obtain a replacement? A search on the HP part number does not turn up much.

13 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Spec of Motorola 7339 Transistor

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I am trying to find out some information about this transistor from my ASR33 Teletype. Ideally a datasheet to tell me what kind of transistor it is, and even better any information on whether it has a modern equivalent. This page: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/167680-vintage-transistors-6.html suggests it might be a 2N176, but I am not sure. Anyone have any information, old datasheets or anything else that may help? Thanks Rob

13 years, 1 month

5
15
0 0

HP-85A/B display and power supply schematics?

by cruff＠ruffspot.net

Has anyone managed to create schematics for the display and power supply for the HP-85A/B? I don't know yet if Tony's schematics for the 87 are applicable or possibly close enough for these boards. I have both an 85A and 85B with identical display issues, which I expect are due to old capacitors causing poor voltage regulation and/or ripple. The pincushion test looks pretty good, except for a bit of vertical displacement (think low amplitude waves) on the horizontal lines. The second issue is when a lot of white is being displayed (i.e. reverse video), there is a distinct narrowing in the scan line width in the top inch or so, with the narrowest at the first scan line. Then there is a gradual widening towards the bottom, with the lowest scan lines ending up off the sides of the phosphor.

13 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Timex TS1000 for shipping

by doc＠vaxen.net

Hi, I'm doing a bunch of spring cleaning and will be offering stuff up as I go. Free & cheap will get pimped on ClassicCmp. Some of the things I think are valuable will go straight to Ebay. Anyhow, I have a TS1000 and a bunch of program cassettes, but no way to test them. The doorstop itself ran the last time I plugged it in. I'd say less than $10 shipping in the lower 48 from Austin Texas. Of course if you come get it, you go to the head of the class. Doc Shipley

13 years, 1 month

1
1
0 0

pdp11/93 mod

by roe＠liveblockauctions.com

Does anyone have information regarding modifying a pdp11/93 cpu to run at 20Mhz? It's been mentioned on a couple of web pages, but I can't seem to find details. Thanks! -- <http://www.liveblockauctions.com> Roe Peterson / Director of Research & Development O. 306.523.4005 / C. 306.501.6802 *Help Desk: 1.877.694.6100 / 306.694.6100* <http://www.liveblockauctions.com/index.php?p=FAQs>

13 years, 1 month

9
13
0 0

OT: rubber drive belts

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

I seem to collect more bits of vintage hi-fi equipment than I do computers these days (they're much easier to find around here)... Anyway, I've got an early-'70s receiver with a built-in 8-track deck where its drive belt has turned to black goo in the same way that QIC drive pinch rollers often seem to do (and oh how that stuff gets everywhere). Exact part replacements by manufacturer / model are unsurprisingly unavailable - but I expect that the belt material is the same composition as that used for e.g. floppy drive spindle belts (or at the very least, floppy drive belt material would work nicely). So... I could measure the pulley diameters and spacing, but does anyone know of somewhere that sells such belts by length/width rather than "this is a belt for xyz"? (and, if such a place even exists, do I need to correct for belt stretch, or is that factored into the sizing already?) cheers Jules

13 years, 1 month

7
7
0 0

Casetek 1018 rails wanted

by teoz＠neo.rr.com

Anybody in the US happen to have spare drive rails for a Casetek 1018 case? The 3.5? ones are model 1018205 and the 5.25? ones are 1018202. If so let me know what you have an how much you want for them. Thanks TZ. P.S. I hate custom mounting rails in cases.

13 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Debugging Programs under RT-11

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

Does anyone reading this list still write code to be run under RT-11? When a program has a bug, what do you use to find the problem? For debugging programs, SD: seems the most efficient way, especially when a Mapped Monitor is being used. Alternatively, ODT (VDT when Multi-terminal Support is included in the RT-11 monitor) can be LINKed into the program. Recently, I have been considering enhancements to the SD: variant, SDHX.SYS, which would reduce the Low Memory required along with adding an additional feature which is part of Ersatz-11. Specifically, SET PCLOG ON requests the Ersatz-11 emulator to save the addresses of the last 64 instructions that were executed. The the command SHOW PCLOG displays all 64 addresses at the users request. I would appreciate a response from anyone still writing and debugging programs that run under RT-11 and which debug package is being used along with the advantages and disadvantages that have been found. One big advantage of SDHX.SYS (actually all of the SD: variants) is that the user can request an automatic display of all of the register contents every time that a breakpoint occurs. The display occurs at the top of the screen each time the breakpoint takes place. The VT100 escape codes are then used to scroll down the screen and display each instruction in turn as it is about to be executed. One big disadvantage of SDHX.SYS is that it freezes the system completely, including the clock interrupts. The big advantage of VDT is that other jobs are able to continue running, but no other information is easily available when the program is stopped at a breakpoint. I would appreciate any response. Jerome Fine

13 years, 1 month

7
6
0 0

DEC collectors--input needed

by sander.reiche＠gmail.com

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > a really low-end VAXstation 3100 Hey, watch it, buddy! ;)

13 years, 1 month

2
1
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