- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > From the KDJ11-E module user's guide ... the solder-side of the CD > fingers is left unpopulated, but for the +5 and ground pins. > The only PMI compatible option then would be the KTJ11-B UNIBUS adapter. I forget how the -11/84-94 backplane is wired (it's wierd - the QBUS CD slots are bussed together in a group, they're not in pairs like an ordinary Q/CD backplane - but I forget the fine details), but how does the PMI get from the CPU to the KTJ11, then? I know on the same backplane, it supports PMI memory cards with the KDJ11-B. And speaking of the KDJ11-B, I just looked at one, and _it_ doesn't have any lands on the C/D connectors, side 2, either! Probably because the PMI only uses side 1 lands: https://gunkies.org/wiki/Private_Memory_Interconnect#Pinout Given that the KDJ11-E can do master-slave cycles through the KTJ11-B (to read UNIBUS device registers), it has to be able to do master-slave cycles on the PMI. What I don't know is whether, on a 2MB KDJ11-E, it will try and send memory reads for locations > 2MB out the PMI, or whether all reads below the UNIBUS address space (in 22-bit address terms) are sent to the local memory _only_. Someone with a 2MB KDJ11-E should try it... Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Seeking paper tape punch

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 08:24 PM 2/21/2022, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote: >Consumer-grade CNC stencil cutters are fine at cutting plastic sheet and should be ok with film stock. >My ptap2dxf (latest version 1.3) will produce output to cut tapes for ... Meaning the Cricut kind of device? Clever! So it works for short sections? Has anyone ever made a Cricut style cutter that has a continuous feed of tape? Why did you pick AutoCAD DXF as compared to Adobe Illustrator? At 07:02 PM 2/21/2022, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >I understand there is a group called "Green keys" -- ham radio operators who use old "teletype" machines -- which in that community means wny sort of keyboard telex-type machine, not necessarily made by Teletype Co. though US ones often are. 5 bit machines are common in that crowd, some 8 bit machines also appear. I haven't participated, but I would think that you might find pointers to options there. GreenKeys mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net They can be very helpful. They tend to focus on other non-33 teletypes. The list can be a good place to find out about people selling or giving away equipment, though. The collectors of the heavy, older, machined teletypes tend to shake their heads at the high prices and popularity of the light-duty cheaper punched-metal 33s. You might find someone giving away a bulky heavy ASR 28 that handles 5-level tape... https://www.telegramcableco.com/teletype-model-28-asr.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_28 Less common to find them giving away a 33 because the computer nuts will pay $xxx to $x,xxx for them. - John

4 years, 1 month

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PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Bill Gunshannon > Just wish I could get some PMI memory for that 93. ?? The KDJ11-E in the -11/93 comes with a minimum of 2MB on the CPU card. That's enough for almost 16 maximum-sized processes (assuming they aren't sharing program texts - almost double that, if they are). Does one really need more than that for vintage retro use? Besides, the on-board memory operates at full speed (same as cache memory on the KDJ11-B); even if you added PMI memory, the KDJ11-E has no cache, so it would be a _lot_ slower than the on-board memory. Noel PS: Can people _please_ trim messages they are replying to, so we don't all have to scroll down past a bunch of irrelevant drek? Thank you.

4 years, 1 month

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Installing an operating system on an 11/83

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ? I have built an 11/83 in a BA23 box. ? It has a KDJ-11B, 2mB PMI memory, an RQDX3 with an RX50 attached, Plus a CMD CQD 220A Disk controller with a digital RH18A 2Gig SCSI drive attached. Diag sees drive as RA82. It boots and runs the diag disk and XXDP+ just fine. I do not have install distributions for any of the 11/83 operating systems. Daily driver system is a Windows 10 PC. So how do I install an operating system? Suggestions please. Thanks Rod

4 years, 1 month

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Seeking paper tape punch

by fedorkow＠mit.edu

[apologies if this is a dup, but I didn't see it coming back in any of the cctalk digests] Greetings CC-Talk, ? I've been working on a low-budget project to help to introduce students to history of computing through material we have from MIT's 1950's Whirlwind project.? The activity would have more of a hands-on feel if we could use actual paper tape. ? A simple reader is easy enough, but a punch is a bit harder.? We don't need anything "authentic", or fast, or high performance, just something fairly reliable. ?? If anyone can suggest where to find such a machine, could you let me know?? Fanuc PPR, GNT 4601/4604, and the DSI NC-2400 have been cited as possible candidates, but I don't see anything that looks like a good match on ebay. ? Thanks! /guy fedorkow

4 years, 1 month

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Seeking paper tape punch

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

> On Feb 21, 2022, at 6:07 PM, Guy Fedorkow <fedorkow at mit.edu> wrote: > > hi Paul, > Yes, I should have said -- I'm looking for a machine that can punch under control of a computer. > Whirlwind actually used seven-bit Flexowriters for reading and punching (along with a high-speed reader later on), but I think it would be even harder to find fresh seven-level tape even if a seven bit machine turned up. > I actually have been using a BRPE on loan from another contributor to this list, but it's time to return the unit, so I've started to look for alternatives. > I assume something like an ASR-33 would do the trick, although a machine without keyboard and printer might have fewer moving parts to go wrong. But I don't see many plausible choices on ebay. > If anyone can suggest other sources, I'll poke around The nice thing about an ASR33 (or other hardcopy terminal with reader/punch like a TT model 15) is that you can interface them to a computer rather easily, just hook up a UART with appropriate driver/receiver circuitry. RS232 to 20 mA (or 60mA for a Model 15) isn't totally trivial but it certainly is no big deal. And those slow machines actually have the nice benefit that it's easy for people to see the action, and to get some understanding at a gut level of how slow computers were in those days. I understand there is a group called "Green keys" -- ham radio operators who use old "teletype" machines -- which in that community means wny sort of keyboard telex-type machine, not necessarily made by Teletype Co. though US ones often are. 5 bit machines are common in that crowd, some 8 bit machines also appear. I haven't participated, but I would think that you might find pointers to options there. As for 7 bit tape media: I found out in the past year or so that there actually was such a thing as paper tape of width designed for 7 tracks, but a lot of "7 bit" paper tape work actually used 1 inch wide tape, i.e., what is normally considered 8 bit tape. For example, the Flexowriters on which I did my first programming at TU Eindhoven used a 7-bit code but on 8 bit tape. paul

4 years, 1 month

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VAX9000 unearthed

by mark.kahrs＠gmail.com

I heard Butler Lampson once exclaim that ECL design was in some ways easier than TTL. If you terminated every line, you get controlled impedances with controlled edges. This was the design philosophy for the Dorado.

4 years, 1 month

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More VT52 HV

by fritzm＠fritzm.org

So, having pulled the CRT now , I was surprised to see that the ground braids seem to be held against the aquadag by only the pressure from a couple foam blocks! In my unit these aged foams are deformed and brittle. This would seem a good thing to add to the check list for looking at these? I wonder if this explains why many of these I encountered back in the day in university terminal rooms and such were suffering from HV ?snaps?? I had always assumed it was just dust / grime / spilled cokes? :-) Also, after a closer look, I?m surmising the red goo around the anode cap to be dielectric grease put there on purpose, and not degradation of the cap itself. ?FritzM.

4 years, 1 month

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rotron caravel fan used in DEC and other cabinets

by useddec＠gmail.com

Does anyone have a video or printed procedure they can send me or point me somewhere that could help? Thanks, Paul

4 years, 1 month

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rotron caravel fan used in DEC and other cabinets

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Vincent Slyngstad > I had to replace one of those recently Where did you source the replacement? I need a few. Thanks! Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> Neither the KD11-E nor the KD11-EA has built-in termination and pull-ups > ... I haven't yet checked, but it may be the only PDP-11 CPU of which > that is true Also the KD11-D of the -11/04. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

So, I've made what I think is a significant discovery about the -11/34: > 1B _is_ necessary, but can be provided anywhere on the bus; most > UNIBUS/QBUS CPU [pullups] have it built in I was wrong. Neither the KD11-E nor the KD11-EA has built-in termination and pull-ups (those are both done with one set of components). I haven't yet checked, but it may be the only PDP-11 CPU of which that is true Without _something_ doing the latter of the above, the UNIBUS won't function at all. (The UNIBUS signal lines mostly operate as negative-logic wired-OR; the pull-ups float it high for '0', and any board pulls it low to send a '1'. No pull-ups, then..) This is almost certainly the reason that the manual calls for the use of either an M9301 ROM or M9312 ROM (which include bus termination) at the start of their UNIBUS, in slot 3 or 4 of the CPU's backplane. (The M7859 of the KY11-LB doesn't have pull-ups either; so in a system with a set of KD11-E/EA cards, and a KY11-B, and nothing else, the KY11-B won't be able to examine UNIBUS locations - even though in a system with _just_ a KY11-B, and one of M9301/M9302/M9312, and NO KD11-E/EA, the KY11-B _can_ do UNIBUS operations.) A system with just an M9302, and no M9301/M9312, will _probably_ work, even though the UNIBUS is only terminated at one end (see my previous post, about QBUS termination on one end only); the M9302 will provide the pull-ups needed for the UNIBUS to function (above). I have also made a number of interesting discoveries about the SACK turnaround; I'll put them in a reply to Fritz's message. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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SGI Indigo keyboard / mouse / converter wanted

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

Hi all, A friend of mine has just acquired an Indigo (R4k with XZ graphics option), but of course it's the usual story and the keyboard/rodent had been lost. In absence of the genuine items they'd still be happy with a USB converter (at least for the time being), but it seems those are difficult to come by at present, too. Does anyone happen to have a surplus converter suitable for these machines, and/or keyboard/rodent? (according to sgistuff keyboard is p/n 9500801 and mouse p/n 9150800) [side note: they mentioned a USB converter, but I'm pretty sure years ago someone had implemented an adapter to PC-friendly PS/2 parts, too. I'm sure something like would do the trick, too] thanks, Jules

4 years, 1 month

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jay Jaeger > SACK turnaround capability so that the machine doesn't hang accessing > an address that doesn't respond on the UNIBUS. Umm, I think you're mixing up i) grant timeouts and ii) master-slave timeouts. All PDP-11 CPUs have master-slave timeout handling; after a short delay (10usec or so) with no SSYN (UNIBUS) or BRPLY (QBUS), they resume processing, and take an immediate trap. Most OS's (UNIX, for sure) use this when they are sizing memory. Grant timeouts are less well-documented. I think most CPUs deal with this (not receiving a SACK 'fairly quickly' in response to a grant); I think they basically just ignore t, and keep processing. (That is because there are legitimate causes for not having a grant ackknowledged; e.g. if a device is requesting an interrupt, and then just as the CPU sends out a grant, the device is reset, the device won't respond to the grant, since it's no longer trying to do an interrupt.) The 'SACK turnaround' I think is only used with system health verification; the system wants to make sure that the grant lines aren't broken anywhere. (That's because _if_ a grant line is broken, devices downstream of the break can no longer do interrupts, which generally _will_ hang the overall system, when interrupts don't work as usual.) To do this, the CPU sends an _un-requested_ grant out (on startup), and the SACK turnaround circuitry on the terminator turns it around and sends it back to the CPU; when the CPU sees that, it knows the grant line has no break. It probably caused more problems than it caught, which is my guess as to why no QBUS machine has/uses it. The -11/34 (not the /34A) has something unusual for grant timeouts, but I forget the details. I'll look it up. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Red Hat Linux 7.2 for Alpha

by me＠larbob.org

Try these: https://mirror.rqsall.com/misc/rh-alpha/7.2/ Larkin

4 years, 1 month

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VAX9000 unearthed

by ioerg.hoppe＠gmail.com

Hi, my computer club c-c-g.de could acquire the remains of a VAX9000 ! The machine ran at the GWDG computing center in G?ttingen, Germany, around 1993. Parts of it were in stock of their museum for 20+ years. See lots of hires-pictures at https://c-c-g.de/fachartikel/359-vax-9000-ein-starker-exot (scroll to the bottom for a slide show). Joerg

4 years, 1 month

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I have a PDP-11/24. I have never got very far with it because of power supply problems which I am hopeful will be resolved soon. Looking at the technical manual, it describes an M9312 bootstrap/terminator module. The machine did not come with one of these. I am not sure how the machine could have been useful without it. It did work briefly before the PSU failed and I remember getting a console prompt. So, is the M9312 essential to ever get this machine to boot up an operating system? Thanks Rob

4 years, 1 month

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DEC AXV11-C analog board

by dj.taylor4＠comcast.net

I have one of these and would like to use it, however it appears to only partially work.? Here is what I have found that works and what doesn't: 1. CSR and DBR are present and operational. 2. Jumpers set to 'factory'. 3. D/A portion works, can deposit codes in ODT and see voltages out on DAC pins that change depending on the octal value deposited in CSR+4 or +6. 4. A/D portion returns full scale code, either 3777 (2's compliment) or 7777 (offset binary) whether in the input is open or shorted to gnd. I think the problem is that the A/D inputs are not exactly protected and damage has occurred to this portion in the past. Does anyone have any info on the A/D module?? Who made it?? Can you open it up?? Does XXDP have a test for this? Doug

4 years, 1 month

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Free Stuff - Pleasanton, Calif.

by bpettitx＠comcast.net

I'm downsizing. Have to get rid of everything. The driveway is filled systems test equipment, components, parts, books, etc. Several thousand TTL chips prototyping boards. Come out and take what you. Junk Bees will be here on Tuesday for what is left. Call 925-998-9968 for directions.

4 years, 1 month

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rob Jarratt > is the M9312 essential to ever get this machine to boot up an operating > system? Interesting question. I don't have my -11/24 running yet, so this reply is theoretical, not tried in practice (and as we all know, the difference between theory and practice is even larger in practice than it is in theory), but here goes. The M9312 basically provides two things: 1) UNIBUS termination, and 2) boostrap ROM. To further subdivide the former, it provides 1A) analog termination (i.e. a resistance at the end of a transmission line that prevents reflections of signals passing down the otherwise un-terminated transmission lines of the bus), 1B) pullups (so those transmission lines normally float at roughly 3V, unless actively driven by one of the boards plugged into the bus) and 1C) 'SACK turnaround' (a start-up 'safety check' where an un-requested - and thus 'un-grabbed' by any device - bus grant from the CPU on start-up is 'turned around' by the terminator; this verifies that the grant lines are un-broken between the CPU and the terminator - e.g. by someone forgetting to plug in a grant jumper). 1A is not _absolutely_ necessary; this can be seen in small QBUS systems (the QBUS is, at the analog level, sort of identical to the UNIBUS; this an be seen in the use of the same transceiver chips, such as 8641's, on both) which can get away without 1A in small configurations. Whether it's needed on your -11/24 is hard to predict, theoretically; the easiest thing is to just try it and see. Note: it may 'work' without it, but not be as _reliable_ as with it. 1B _is_ necessary, but can be provided anywhere on the bus; most UNIBUS/QBUS CPUs have it built in, and so does the KDF11-U of the -11/24: see pg. of MP01028. 1C is required by _some_ UNIBUS CPUs (ISTR that the -11/04 won't run without it), but the KDF11's in general don't; e.g. the -11/23 definitely runs without it. The KDF11-U might have outboard circuitry to require it, but I'm too lazy to grovel over the prints to see. Easiest to just try it and see. For 2, it all depends on what you're booting from. E.g. the RK11 has a simple enough bootstrap that you can just enter it manually (although it gets old after a while - I remember re-'programming' (think 'soldering iron' :-) a castoff BM-792 someone gave us for our -11/40 so I wouldn't have to). But if you're loading it over the console serial line, e.g. with PDP11GUI, you don't need any ROM bootstrap - the built in console ODT will be enough. You can also load a bootstrap that way; I was booting off the QSIC RK11 with a boostrap loaded over the console serial line; that was faster than the bootstrap in the BDV11. This requires finding - or writing - a bootstrap, which for later DEC mass storage controllers is not trivial. YMMV. TLDR version - probably not! Noel

4 years, 1 month

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KK11-A cache for -11/34A on eBait

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Anyone want a KK11-A: https://www.ebay.com/itm/275173894774 US$200 sounds like a lot, I know, but KK11-A'S and FP11-A's are going for that much; an FP11-A just went for US$250. And KK11-A's are rare; this is he first one in a while. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rob Jarratt > I suspect some of the other cards that were in the machine might do the > necessary termination stuff. Different answers for each part of the functionality. 1A and 1C fundamentally have be at the end of the bus, physically. So, unlikely; since _other_ cards aren't, generally, designed to go there. 1B could be anywhere, but I've basically never seen anything but a CPU or a terminator with 1B functionality - probably in part because the same physical components uually do both 1A and 1B. (Oddball exception: M981 UNIBUS jumper, in the -11/40 - but that's 'sort of' part of the CPU.) 2, yes. E.g. the KT24 UNIBUS map has sockets to hold bootstrap PROMs. (Compatible with the M9312's.) Others, too; e.g. the KTJ11-B UNIBUS adapter (although that is not seen in an -11/24). Maybe others, but I can't recall off the top of my head. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Testing H745 Regulators

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I am trying to test a couple of H745 regulators with a DC bench PSU and I am having some problems with testing them. My bench PSU is a twin unit so I can supply the +15V required as well as the "AC" input using 20VDC from the other half of the bench PSU. The problem is that I don't think the bench PSU can supply enough startup current to allow the regulator to run. It can only supply 5A max. I have seen with the H744s that if I put too big a load on them, then they can't start because of the heavy startup current required. I can start them with a lower load and then add load once the regulator is running without breaching the current limit of the PSU. With the H745s I have tried reducing the load to see if I can get them to start, but a 10R load appears to be too much and the regulators draw the full 5A without outputting -15V. I have two H745s, both exhibit the same behaviour. I suppose they could both have the same fault, but I am inclined to think that perhaps they need a higher startup current than I can supply. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks Rob

4 years, 1 month

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ID these DEC floppy disks

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

Hey all! While going through floppies I found these and was wondering what they were. Only clue in Google was someone asking in 1997 same thing. BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1 BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2 BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3 BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4 Any ideas? The first one does not have a write protect tab, the others do. There is also one other disk I found CZMX4E0 Micro 11 Maint RX50 4 On this one the write protect flag was torn off (was on from factory and removed) C

4 years, 1 month

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HP 2100S Power Supply Disassembly Tips

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hey all -- I've had this HP 2100S mini sitting on the bench for a bit, waiting, and I wanted to go through the power supply and test/reform the capacitors this past weekend. The processor service docs cover getting the supply out (which is slightly cumbersome) and I have that step done. But neither the processor docs nor the power supply service docs seem to cover how one disassembles the supply itself. (Has a really thorough guide to how the thing works though, that I'm hoping I won't actually have to use anytime soon.) There are a lot of parts in this unit, and I'm not seeing a method to the madness. The capacitors are fairly easy to *get to* but actually removing them for testing / replacement seems to be another matter entirely. Anyone out there done this before and have any advice? Thanks! - Josh

4 years, 1 month

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Red Hat Linux 7.2 for Alpha

by p.gebhardt＠ymail.com

Hi Ben, >? I can't seem to find this anymore.? I have seen a few mentions that there is a "wrapper" installer that is necessary to install 7.2 on an ES47/ES80 >machine, and I'm hoping that it was archived or mirrored some place... Back then in 2016, I also looked for these images for my ES80 machine on the HP site and tried to find ftp mirrors, but all I found were broken links. I would be happy, too, if anybody has a copy of these installation sets. Cheers, Pierre

4 years, 1 month

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VCF Swap Meet in Wall, NJ Sat, Feb 26 - Vintage Computers, Amateur Radio, TV, Radio, other Tech

by jeffrey＠vcfed.org

*The vintage Computer Federation will be having their 3rd swap meet.* *Saturday, February 26, 2022* *8AM to 2PM* *ADDRESS*: *Indoor swap Meet* InfoAge Science and History Museums (Camp Evans) 2201 Marconi Road, Wall, NJ 07719 Buildings 9010-D, 9032-A, 9001 *GPS location*: Google Maps <https://goo.gl/maps/YiEnhJAtffHTnfn8A> *Satellite Map*: *Street Map*: *EMAIL*: swapmeet at vcfed.org *PHONE*: 732-722-5015 *Flyer:* 2022-VCF-Swap-Meet-Flyer <https://vcfed.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/VCF_Swap_Meet_2_26_2022_LQ_…> *Website*: https://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-swap-meet/ *VENDOR COST* is per space. First space is $20, each additional space is $10. This time it is an *indoor* swap meet. *Bring your own table!* Table isn?t required, but recommended. A space is considered a 6 by 3 foot area (the general size of a table). *Vendor setup at 7AM.* *FREE GENERAL ADMISSION!* *SEND PAYMENT TO*: paypal at vcfed.org (FRIENDS AND FAMILY OPTION) Write in the note section: [your name] VCF Swap Meet 2/26/2022 Number of spaces: *Click HERE for Swap Meet Vendor Signup* <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfplnIROL-TTJ3qNkIo45mTelGNY3QCaFi…> * Reservation doesn?t guarantee sales. * The Vintage Computer Federation is only providing a space, vendors must bring their own tables. * In case of inclement weather, money paid will be refunded. * All items that you bring must be taken with you. No items are to be left behind. * Bathrooms on site * Limited food and drink options available. The same info can be found here: https://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-swap?meet <https://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-swap-meet> *EMAIL*: swapmeet at vcfed.org *AFTER THE SWAP MEET, COME VISIT OUR VCF MUSEUM @ INFOAGE!* We are open from 12PM to 5PM: https://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-museum The Vintage Computer Federation Museum is located nearby the swap meet and is part of InfoAge Science and History museums. InfoAge and VCF Museums are open every Saturday, Sunday and Wednesday from 12PM to 5PM InfoAge museums: infoage.org.

4 years, 1 month

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Red Hat Linux 7.2 for Alpha

by ben＠huntsmans.net

Hi guys- Is anyone aware of an archive or mirror of HP / Compaq's Red Hat Linux 7.2 for Alpha download site: ftp://ftp2.compaq.com/pub/linux/RedHat/7.2-alpha/release-isos/ And the update site: ftp://ftp2.compaq.com/pub/linux/RedHat/7.2-alpha/updates/ I can't seem to find this anymore. I have seen a few mentions that there is a "wrapper" installer that is necessary to install 7.2 on an ES47/ES80 machine, and I'm hoping that it was archived or mirrored some place... Thanks in advance! -Ben

4 years, 1 month

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DECTape head problem

by go＠aerodesic.com

In debugging my DECtape interface lashup, I found that one of my head has two open windings.? Specifically, one channel has an open 'ground' with the other two lines apparently the full winding of the channel.? The second channel failing has no continuity between any of the three lines.? I have tested the other head and it has all the requisite continuity so I'm hoping I can at least get a single spindle running. Visual inspection of the head 'suggests' it might be caused by the age-old 'wire stress' of being captured within a polyester resin and then finally snapping due to internal stress.? I see lots of internal stress cracks on this head so I'm probably toast on this one. Are there documents on how the heads are made?? I.e. number of turns of number X wire; cap of X micros etc.? I'm not (yet) seriously entertaining the idea of rebuilding this head, but it looks pretty low tech.? These heads are Western Magnetic heads without a model number (only serial number 19976 - don't know the other head S/N as I haven't removed it yet.) And the look to be hand made... Has any ever attempted repair of one of these? -Gary

4 years, 1 month

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Varian 620/L backplane netlist?

by mark.kahrs＠gmail.com

I realize this a rare bird indeed, but would anyone just happen to have a Varian 620/L backplane netlist hanging around? Unless I missed it, the schematics on bitsavers do *not* have it.

4 years, 1 month

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AlphaServer ES47 partitioning

by ben＠huntsmans.net

Hey guys- Anyone on here know much about the Marvel boxes? I've had one for years but never had much time to fiddle with it. I'm looking at the partitioning features. In particular, the manual says: Hard partitions must be on 2P boundaries Tru64 only supports hard partitions However, I can confirm that you can definitely create a hard partition with a single CPU. This got me thinking, and I dug a little deeper into the MBM CLI. The manual seems to suggest that this is the case, but says that the operating system won't work correctly in that configuration. Anyone know why not? When you create a hard partition, you specify what type of subpartition the hard partition can contain. The manual says that only "soft" partitions are officially supported, but the CLI also allows you to create subpartitions of type "firm" and "semi-firm". Does anyone know what "firm" and "semi-firm" partitions do differently than soft partitions? And does Tru64 work with any of that, or is all of that OpenVMS-specific stuff? Also, on a side note, I don't suppose anyone here has a rail kit for an ES47 or ES80 they'd like to sell, or an I/O drawer... Many thanks in advance! -Ben

4 years, 1 month

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More switchmode power supply grief - Cisco IGS router

by cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie

I have a Cisco IGS router which hasn't worked for a long time. When I was last using it several years ago, it occasionally crashed and restarted. This turned out to be due to a poor contact on a connection in the cable going from the output of the power supply to the main board. I cleaned the contact more than once but it was difficult to make it good enough to ensure reliability. When I switched it on more recently, it was completely dead, no LEDs, no fan noise, no anything. I put it in the naughty pile and it sat there for a few years before I got around to looking at it. Today I finally managed to check it out. The ceramic F4A mains input fuse beside the power switch on the back panel had blown. When I opened it up, I found a POWER-ONE MAP80-4000 power supply. The main chopper transistor labelled Q1 on the PCB is almost a dead short. It is a large plastic packaged FET mounted on a piece of aluminium which is in turn screwed to the case for heatsinking. Unfortunately, there are no markings on it so I have no idea what to replace it with :-( As Q1 is shorted across all three terminals, whatever drives it may be damaged too :-( After finding screw heads hidden under the label, I managed to extract the PCB from the case and found some corrosion underneath, possibly from leaking electrolytic capacitors :-( There are lots of data sheets available for this power supply on the web but they concentrate on the specifications for the unit and don't say anything about the components :-( There are also lots of people offering to sell power supplies like this for way more than I am interested in spending on this project :-( I could replace the power supply with a different one, however, I don't have anything to hand that will fit in the approx 5-6cm headroom :-( Anyone have any suggestions? Regards, Peter Coghlan.

4 years, 1 month

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WTB: DEC VSXXX-AA Mouse or Compatible

by lists＠glitchwrks.com

All, I'm looking for a DEC VSXXX-AA "hockey puck" mouse or compatible for a VAXstation 3100. Thanks, Jonathan

4 years, 1 month

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Vintage computers Swap-meets in Knoxville region

by peveep＠gmail.com

Between the 30th of March and the 20th of April. I am a computer collector from England and specialise on computer artefacts >from the 1940s to the 1970s. and would love to attend one of these when visiting my son in TN. Many thanks, peter vp

4 years, 1 month

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TTL substitute for DTL

by cclist＠sydex.com

I've got a piece of gear here with a bad MC858P used as a bus driver--terminated in 220/330 ohms at the far end. Given that old DTL is a hit-or-miss proposition, I'm proposing to substitute a 7438 OC buffer. Pinout's the same, as is Vcc. Before I get out the soldering iron, any "don't do it" thoughts? --Chuck

4 years, 1 month

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Wanted: Pinout IDT 49C402 PGA84

by holm＠freibergnet.de

Hi, I have 4 pcs. IDT49C402 Bit Slices, it is no problem to find a datasheet for that chip..but it is an problem to find the pinout for the PGA84 Package. In all Datasheets that I've found only DIP68, LCC/PLCC68 PGA68 and CERQUAD68 are listet.. Has anyone a databook newer than 1989 where the PGA84 Pinout is listed? TIA, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Goethestrasse 15, 09569 Oederan, USt-Id: DE253710583 info at tsht.de Fax +49 37292 709779 Tel +49 37292 709778 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

4 years, 1 month

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PDP-11/34 CPU PROMS

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Warner Losh > Do those chips have ROM numbers on them? I have updated the: https://gunkies.org/wiki/KD11-E_CPU https://gunkies.org/wiki/KD11-EA_CPU articles with the DEC part numbers for the i) microcode and ii) instruction decode PROms. That's not all the PROMs on the Control card - there are effing bazillions of the damned things (I suspect they used them to reduce the amount of random logic, so the CPU'd fit on two boards) - but it's most of them. I have yet to triple-check them, so there might still be transcription error or two. > From: Rod Smallwood > I am sure somebody will come up with the actual images either the > original files or derived from what we have. I wouldn't be too sure of that; silence so far. I have reached out to Mike Douglas, to ask where the microcode dump on DeRamp came from: perhaps the originator can help with the missing bits. (Although perhaps I should ask Al K; BitSavers also has the dump, and it's older, so perhaps that copy came >from the originator.) > We have narrowed the problem down. > Its the instruction decode ROM's that are the issue. > The images of those are whats needed. All of them? Or is just one failed? I'm wondering if you've just had a single one lose a bit or two; that's somewhat common in old PROMs. The chip you reported as failing (E111) almost certainly couldn't have taken out an instruction decode PROM, it's nowhere near them. I ask because we have absolutely nothing on those PROM's contents. With the microcode PROMs, we at least have the contents in symbolic form (see pg. 15 of MP00082; alas, we don't seem to have the KD11-EA equivalent of Table 7-15 >from EK-FP11A-TM-002), but for all the instruction decode PROMs - nada. Absolutely nothing. But if they're _mostly_ there, with the partial contents, and a description of the failure mode (e.g. 'SETC doesn't set the C bit'), we might be able to work out what bit got dropped. Failing that, someone's going to have to volunteer to unsolder a set, and read them out - at least, I assume that's what would have to be done. Perhaps a logic analyzer could be attached to an instruction decode ROMwhile the CPU ran diagnostics, and eventually a complete readout of the contents accumulated. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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PDP-11/34 CPU PROMS

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

>>> On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 6:18 PM Rod Smallwood wrote: >>> On the M8266 CPU control board a defective 7404 (E111) has killed a >>> bunch of the PROMs holding the microcode. That's pretty astonishing; I've heard of PROMs dropping bits over time, but I'm a bit amazed to hear of a failure in a TTL gate (the 74S04 is a hex inverter; its gates are on pg. 7 of the M8266 prints - they produce uPC03-08) taking out a bunch of other gates connected to it. >> On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 7:04 PM Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote: >> I found >> https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/011-Digital%20Equipment%20Corporat… >> which has the source code... >> >> But I couldn't find the tools to use these files to create microcode >> images. Actually, the "m8266_ucode.v.txt" there seems to actually be the program that produced the symbolic dump (which is also available at: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1134/m8266_ucode.out.txt) It looks like the program is in VHDL or something like that, but it doesn't seem to have the actual microcode (was it stored/defined in another VHDL file?); that raises the question of where the actual microcode that it was dumping was. It might be worth inquiring of Mike Douglas (he runs the DeRamp site) to find out where the files in "mfe_archive" came from; perhaps the source has, or knows of, the file which "m8266_ucode.out.txt" was a symbolic dump of - maybe >from a complete KD11-EA simulation in VHDL? If that's not possible,it would be trivial to extract the PROM contents (well, partial contents - see below) from the "m8266_ucode.out.txt" file; each uword entry starts with the lines: ***** PDP-11/34a micro code word for MPC = 000 ***** (MSB is left, indented fields generated by expansion ROMs) micro word........ = 0000 0111 1100 0000 1100 1000 1010 0001 0000 0000 1110 0000 from ROM: E105 E103 E104 E100 E98 E97 E99 E106 E107 E108 E109 E110 The address of each uword is the "MPC = xxx" line; the contents of the 12 PROMs, at that address, are given on the "micro word........ = " line (the PROMs are 4 bits wide). If someone explained what format they needed as input for burning new PROMs, I could easily (like an hour) write a small portable program (using StdIO only, so it could be compiled and run on _anything_) that read that file in, and spat out the 12 PROM files. (Most of the dump could be ignored - all the data that's needed is in that one line.) BUT (and this is why it would be good to get back to the source of that file), that's not a complete M8266 ucode PROM dump. The KD11-EA has a uword address space 1 bit larger than the KD11-E - almost certainly to support floating point instructions; the KD11-EA adds 'uPC 09' (although looking its source at the top of pg. 7 of the prints, I don't quite grok how it is generated - maybe it's fed back through J2 from the FP11-A when one is plugged in). Anyway, uword addresses run up to 02000 in the KD11-EA, and the last uword in that dump is 0777. Interestingly, according to the flow charts of the 'basic' KD11-E/EA ucode in the prints (indexed and annotated here: https://gunkies.org/wiki/KD11-E/EA_microcode in full), they stop at 0757 - but the dump (in "m8266_ucode.out.txt") contains uwords that are 'supposed' to be blank (per the flow charts), as well as above 0757. So that dump must have been prepared from a copy of the 'new' KD11-EA PROMs - the ones including the floating point ucode. (Note that the FP11-A _also_ contains ucode, intended to control the stuff on the FP11-A; but the floating point instructions _also_ use the KD11-A for some stuff - e.g. fetching operands from main memory. Only the ucode address space is shared.) > From: Warner Losh > There's a small chance that the tools.tar.gz link on > http://www.ak6dn.com/PDP-11/M9312/ has these, but that's for a > different module so who knows. Right, a _completely_ different card - a boot PROM, not a CPU; totally un-related - and by a different person (Don North). But just for completeness, I looked in "tools.tar.gz", and it's just bootstrap PROM stuff. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Retro Chip Tester Pro, done!

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

You may recall that, a few weeks ago, I requested parts help (shopping baskets) for the Retro Chip Tester Pro that I got for Christmas. Well, today's mail brought the last few parts and I have finished and tested it. Wow! The only thing that it doesn't do is slice bread. It's great. I've put up a few pictures here: http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/images/RCTPro/ I got the 4008 and 1702 adapters with it, but I'm pretty sure that I will get the rest over the next month or so. This is the latest HW version with the latest release software. Bill S. PS: Thanks to everyone that helped with parts. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

4 years, 1 month

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DECTape head problem

by amp1ron＠gmail.com

> So it sermsdectape heads are special. I don?t think Dec would have the desire to make them internally so they probably contractef with a company already set up to do that. Who were the big tape head manufacturers at that time? Does anyone know? A photo of the back of a TU56 DECtape head can be seen at https://www.pdp8online.com/tu56/pics/head_label.shtml?small . The head has a label on it that reads: Western Magnetics Glendale Calif. Record 7282 I've never seen a TU56 in person and have no idea if they have separate read, write, and erase heads or some other combo. The "Record" notation on the above head's label hints to me this might be a write head. I found that and other DECtape photos at https://www.pdp8online.com/tu56/tu56.shtml . -- Ron

4 years, 1 month

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DECTape head problem

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 20:55:31 +0000 > From: Wayne S <Wayne.Sudol at hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: DECTape head problem > > So it serms dectape heads are special. I don?t think Dec would have the > desire to make them internally so they probably contractef with a company > already set up to do that. Who were the big tape head manufacturers at that > time? Does anyone know? > We have one from Applied Magnetics Corporation, maybe the one in Goleta, CA. -- Michael Thompson

4 years, 1 month

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DECTape head problem

by go＠ao-cs.com

On 2/8/22 14:14, Wayne S via cctech wrote: > Searched a lille bit for Western Magnetics. Here?s a site that has some surplus heads, even a western magnetics onebut probably not the correct one. There is a corporate charter record for Western Magnetics in Minnesota dated 1964. Maybe this is the same company. There?s also a tape head from Michigan Magnetics. Maybe a merged company? > > https://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/magnetic-tape.html > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 8, 2022, at 13:05, Ron Pool via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > ? > So it sermsdectape heads are special. I don?t think Dec would have the desire to make them internally so they probably contractef with a company already set up to do that. Who were the big tape head manufacturers at that time? Does anyone know? > > A photo of the back of a TU56 DECtape head can be seen at https://www.pdp8online.com/tu56/pics/head_label.shtml?small . > The head has a label on it that reads: > Western Magnetics > Glendale Calif. > Record > 7282 > > I've never seen a TU56 in person and have no idea if they have separate read, write, and erase heads or some other combo. The "Record" notation on the above head's label hints to me this might be a write head. > > I found that and other DECtape photos at https://www.pdp8online.com/tu56/tu56.shtml . > > -- Ron > > Thanks.? Hadn't seen the Minnesota information.? Found some references but not actual company info.? Did find a reference somewhere it Canada, but I couldn't tell if it was original or successor company.? At any rate, no web presence nor telephone numbers found (yet.) I've dealt with the SurplusSales (of Nebraska) many times.? His prices are usually pretty high (not obscene, but just not 'surplus' prices I'm used to.)? However, he is a first-rate dealer and when he says something is so, you can count on it.? Never had problem with anything I was willing to *PAY* for.? I scanned the list you provided and found only a few 'digital' devices, unfortunately.? I suspect from 7 and 9 track mag tape drives.? I will scan his site and send him a ping so he'll be on? the lookout. -Gary

4 years, 1 month

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PDP-11/34 CPU PROMS

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ???????? Jerry Walker and I have an 11/34 under restoration. We have run into a bit of a problem. On the M8266 CPU control board a defective 7404 (E111) has killed a bunch of the PROMs holding the microcode. Does anybody have or can get images of the PROMs on this board so replacement devices an be programmed. Rod

4 years, 1 month

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Need 8mm or DLT-II tape?

by van.snyder＠sbcglobal.net

I have many 8mm tapes. A few are new. First comers get new ones. I have a few 8mm cleaning cassettes I have about a dozen DLT-II tapes. I have a Quantum DLT-II drive with wide SCSI LVD/SE interface I have some Ultrium LTO fibre-channel SCSI drives that were removed >from a tape-mounting robot several years ago. I never used them in my computers. The mounting bracket for one was modified to have an internal power supply -- which might be inadequate. ?I have one LTO tape. I have a 5.25" floppy drive. Yours for the price of shipping, or local pickup OK. Van Snyder van.snyder at sbcglobal.net La Crescenta, CA

4 years, 1 month

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DECTape head problem

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

> On Feb 8, 2022, at 5:14 PM, Wayne S via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Searched a lille bit for Western Magnetics. Here?s a site that has some surplus heads, even a western magnetics onebut probably not the correct one. There is a corporate charter record for Western Magnetics in Minnesota dated 1964. Maybe this is the same company. There?s also a tape head from Michigan Magnetics. Maybe a merged company? > > https://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/magnetic-tape.html Those all look like audio heads, nothing even vaguely resembling a DECtape head. paul

4 years, 1 month

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Anyone live in Minneapolis?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Steve at oldcomputers.net > There are some vintage tablets in Minneapolis (Eden Prarire) that would > like, but the seller will not ship. > Any help? When dealing with eBaiters who can't/won't ship, I have had good luck with PakMail (http://www.pakmail.com/); for a usually reasonable fee, they will go pick something up, package it properly, and ship it. In my experience with them, the shipping cost may not have been the absolute lowest possible I could have secured had I been on the spot, looking around, but.. I wasn't on the spot, looking around. And they went to the person's house, picked the thing up, and shipped it. Noel

4 years, 1 month

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Anyone live in Minneapolis?

by steve＠oldcomputers.net

There are some vintage tablets in Minneapolis (Eden Prarire) that would like, but the seller will not ship. Any help? You will have to pay, pick up, and ship. I would do it for you! Thanks- Steve in CA

4 years, 1 month

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DECTape head problem

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

> On Feb 8, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Wayne S via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Since so many audio tape players and computer magtape units were made it would stand to reason that there has to be a stash somewhere of tape heads and it?s just a matter of finding where they are. > Are there any part numbers on the dectape heads? The schematics are bound to show DEC part numbers, but how those translate into supplier part numbers is anyone's guess. Or perhaps they were made internaly by DEC? In any case, DECtape heads are unusual. Computer tapes are normally 1/2 inch wide (a few old tape drives had different widths, like the 14 track 1 inch CDC tape). But DECtape and LINCtape are 3/4 inches wide, with 10 head positions. Audio tapes are unlikely to be helpful; consumer reel to reel tape is 2 tracks (interleaved for when you flip over the reel?) 1/4 inch; professional decks might have 8 tracks or more on 1/2 or 1 or 2 inch wide tape, but I don't remember ever seeing 3/4 inch wide audio or instrumentation heads. paul

4 years, 1 month

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DECTape head problem

by go＠ao-cs.com

On 2/7/22 12:48, Marc Howard via cctech wrote: > The problem would be the non-standard track size and number of tracks. > However if at least one of the head's paired tracks is good you could > potentially cut the drive current in half and double the read amplitude and > just use one track for the affected channel. > > Marc > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:33 PM Wayne S via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> > wrote: > >> I?ve often wondered if the tape heads from consumer tape devices such as >> cassette or 4-8 track tape players could be used or be made to be used as >> replacements. Anybody ever try that? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Feb 7, 2022, at 11:51, Michael Thompson via cctech < >> cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: Further, the DECTape had various track-to-track spacing.? Between the the Mark track and the first data track on both edges, the spacing is at a little less than twice that between the mark and timing tracks or between each set of data tracks.? Put a different way, the track spacing is: T.M..D.D.D.D.D.D..M.T The magnetic poles of each head is roughly 1mm wide with about .8 mm spacing heads? The '..' in the above means there is about 1.4mm spacing (between 'M and D' and 'D and M', for example - the measurements are crude, so I could be off 20% or more.) I've searched the documents I have (many from bitsavers) and haven't yet spied a specification for the head design.? I suppose if I could determine the head 'gap' and knowing the magnetic flux required of the tape (with proper margins) and knowing the stated impedance of the head and drive current, I could figure out how many turns of some size wire is required (looks to be at least as small as #40). Back when I was a bit younger and less experienced (and didn't know it was impossible,) I actually 'repaired' (for some definition of 'repair') an old 1/4 inch tape head.? But all I did was pull some wire off the coil and delicately soldered a tap to this wire.? It worked ok for a couple of years but was obviously failed again from rough handling.? Fortunately it was 'easy' since there wasn't a bunch of clear epoxy in the way ;-)? I'm not sure today I would have the temerity to even try. Hoping one will show up someday and I can make a deal as to complete my unit. Thanks to all who have replied. -Gary

4 years, 1 month

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DECTape head problem

by bitwiz＠12bitsbest.com

I wonder if there are any professional audio multi-track recorders that match the tape width, number of tracks and tack pitch and have the necessary frequency response. On 2/7/2022 3:05 PM, Marc Howard via cctech wrote: > 8 track tapes use 1/4" wide tape. Most 8 track units use heads with only > two tracks implemented. There was a stepper solenoid that moved the head > down (or up after all 4 stereo programs were played). Growing up in the > 60s you never forget things like listening to In-A-Gadda-Da_Vida fade in > the middle of the drum solo and a loud "klunk-klunk" sound and the song > resuming. > > Some true 8 track heads were made for mastering pre-recorded tapes and > maybe for consumer recorders. > > Marc > > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:51 PM Michael Thompson via cctech < > cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> DECtapes have 5x redundant tracks. If you could find an 8-track head that >> had the same track pitch, and maybe track width, you could read the tape >> but lose redundancy on the Mark and Timing tracks. That probably would not >> work with a marginal DECtape. >> >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 3:33 PM Wayne S <wayne.sudol at hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I?ve often wondered if the tape heads from consumer tape devices such as >>> cassette or 4-8 track tape players could be used or be made to be used as >>> replacements. Anybody ever try that? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Feb 7, 2022, at 11:51, Michael Thompson via cctech < >>> cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> From: Gary Oliver <go at aerodesic.com> >>>>> Subject: DECTape head problem >>>>> >>>>> In debugging my DECtape interface lashup, I found that one of my head >>>>> has two open windings.? Specifically, one channel has an open 'ground' >>>>> with the other two lines apparently the full winding of the channel.? >>>>> The second channel failing has no continuity between any of the three >>>>> lines.? I have tested the other head and it has all the requisite >>>>> continuity so I'm hoping I can at least get a single spindle running. >>>>> >>>>> Has any ever attempted repair of one of these? >>>>> >>>>> -Gary >>>>> >>>> At the Rhode Island Computer Museum we found several DECtape heads on >>> TU55 >>>> and TU56 drives with open connections. A volunteer got one head X-Rayed >>> so >>>> we could see the solder joints between the tiny wires for the head >> coils, >>>> and the larger twinax wires that go to the relay board. We couldn't see >>> any >>>> damage to the wires or solder joints. >>>> >>>> We tried heating the potting material to soften it, and digging it out >> to >>>> get to the solder joints. While digging at the potting material you >> can't >>>> see the tiny wires, so they will likely get damaged. >>>> >>>> We considered using a solvent to remove the potting material, but >> thought >>>> that it would eat the enamel off the head coil wires and damage them >>> beyond >>>> repair. >>>> >>>> So far we haven't found a way to repair the heads. >>>> >>>> Michael Thompson >> >> -- >> Michael Thompson >>

4 years, 1 month

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