William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote:
> Lots of the stuff I have seen allows a user to insert an external clock -
> this can be handy for testing in the real world. Providing the clock is no
> big deal. Sure, it would be nice to get a dead-on clock for a T1, but as
> long as you keep the circuit private, the clock can be fairly sloppy.
Thanks for jogging my memory about that, I guess I've been in denial
about this stuff for a while. Yeah, if you're just running over a direct
cable (which is what I was thinking about) you'd be OK doing this.
> > Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs?
>
> Yes, some people on this list get connected this way (T1s that run a whole
> 20 feet, CSU to CSU, with no frame in between). A horrible kludge in a
> production environment, in my opinion, but it worked for quite a few
> years. Recently someone at ANS suggested that we use a T3 the same way,
> but he ended up being tarred and feathered.
Umm...why were you doing this? I can understand it for testing and as
a crude but expensive bandwidth limiter.
> > If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd
> > have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be
> > some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper,
> > but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem?
>
> Differences as in losses due to the long run? That is what the Line Build
> Out option is for (on most CSUs). T1s, with thier twisted pair,
> differential design, tend to be pretty tough.
No, I was thinking about differences in ground potential between the
two buildings, static electricity, lightning strikes, that sort of
thing. All the canonical reasons why you wouldn't want to pull
Ethernet coax through that conduit.
-Frank McConnell
On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, I wrote
] Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be
] at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs,
] for the cost of postage.
] ...blah, blah, blah...
To which there were several replies...
......................................................................
Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> wrote:
] > ... The consensus seems to be that they need some associated
] > equipment to do the dialing.
]
] The "associated equipment" is nothing more than a regular phone.
] ...
Can you tell me how to do that? An earlier reply (from Bill Pechter?)
said I needed a "dataphone", and would dial with that and then press
a "data" switch. I have neither a dataphone nor a data switch...
I did try mucking around with the "talk" switch and an ordinary telephone,
but couldn't get any interesting behavior out of them. (Ie: I connected
the "telco" socket on the modem to the phone line from the wall, and
then the telephone into "telset" on the modem. I also tried connecting
both the modem and the telephone to the wall via a "Y" adapter. Did I
miss some obvious thing? I don't now remember which setup gave what
results, but in the cases when I could actually dial out and get a
carrier, I couldn't get the modem to do anything about it.)
......................................................................
Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com> wrote:
] > ... None respond to the Hayes "AT" command set, and each has a ...
] have you tried thr Racal Vadic command set, and do they have to be AT
] command compatible? I have a box stashed out in the storage building with
] a bunch of old modems, 300/1200/2400 types and all externals. I'll have
] to dig fo them this weekend (along with the Commie stuff I was supposed
] to get last weekend) and see what there is and let you know. What exactly
] are you planing to do with the modems and what speed do you need?
I've never even heard of the Racal Vadic command set, although I do
recognize the name as an old modem manufacturer. Hints would be welcome.
I don't have any real need for these modems, except that they are old
computer stuff, and were on their way to a land fill. I snagged 'em
mainly thinking that somebody on this list might be interested in them.
I could easily picture them on a shelf next to a Vax, happily chugging
away. (And for that purpose, I might hang onto one of them for myself.
But that leaves three taking up floor space.)
] > Similarly, I've got a Sytek 2532 Packet Communications Unit, with...
] Almost sounds like a multiplexer unit.....someone has a boat without an
] anchor out there.
:-)
Well, one man's anchor is another man's treasure, right? We aren't
hanging around on this list because we only like the fastest compustuff.
Anybody with a basement full of old computers might very well want some
old networking stuff to glue them together with.
As for me, I don't even have a basement. But I am off to a good start;
I have stuff to populate one.
......................................................................
Jack Peacock <peacock(a)simconv.com> wrote:
] Bill Yakowenko wrote:
] > There are two BellSouth 212A's, and two similar modems by Penril.
] From my experience with Penril modem the best thing you can do is send
] them to the dumpster. ...
What, no warm fuzzy nostagic feelings for these? :-)
How about this, slap a 56K modem inside the shell, maybe even wire up
the front-panel LEDs appropriately, and amaze your friends. It all
depends on what kind of thrill you're after.
......................................................................
BTW, if I come across more junk like this, should I continue to post
it here, or should I just list it on that web page and assume that
interested parties will find it?
Cheers,
Bill.
Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be
at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs,
for the cost of postage.
There are two BellSouth 212A's, and two similar modems by Penril.
None respond to the Hayes "AT" command set, and each has a handful
of pushbutton switches on the front, as per my previous post.
Power supplies are all internal; they each have an ordinary 120v
line cord. The consensus seems to be that they need some associated
equipment to do the dialing. Because of this, I have no idea if
they work or not. They are each maybe 1' x 1' x 2", but not very
heavy. (That size is an estimate from memory, and might be off by
a bit).
I doubt they are useful in any modern setup, but they might be
regarded as classics. If nobody here wants them, they return to
the dumpster from which they came. My apartment now has negative
space available, if you know what I mean.
Similarly, I've got a Sytek 2532 Packet Communications Unit, with
about half a dozen boards in it. This is a rack-mount beastie, and
weighs like it, so it could be expensive to ship. Still, if you
want it, or any of the boards from it, let me know. Like the modems,
I have no way to test it, and no idea whether or not it works. But
I'd be thrilled to get it out of the trunk of my car. :-)
And maybe this is a good time to mention my "for trade" web page,
containing a list of compu-junk that needs a good home. It is at
this URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/fortrade.html
Cheers,
Bill.
Since I rediscovered a B500 in my junk some weeks ago,
I'm searching for information. Until now i could trace
nothing in the web or any magazine from that time.
The Computer in question is a Commodore B500, Basicly
a CBM II LP. I am not talking about the P500. The mobo
is technicaly the same than the CBM 610 (B128) but a
different layout (only some lines) and a (lower) part#.
Also the Version/Part#'s of the kernal/basic EPROMS are
lower than any known (to me) B128/B256/6x0/7x0 type.
The mobo and all chips are dated to 1982 - again way
before any other CBM II I know. AFAIR the CBM II line
was introducted in 1983.
Any Info would be usefull.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
I finally got back to working on my PDP-11/44, and finished cleaning it up
yesterday. So now I'm ready to start testing stuff.
Which brings me to my question, I went ahead and plugged the TU-58 drives
in to see if they would give any indication of life. Not a thing. Do they
have to be plugged into the line (serial I think), or have a tape in them
before they will show any signs of life?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
I have an unused and unregistered copy, complete, of Zenith Data
Systems/Heath Company's "Breakthrough Timeline" which appears to be
a
timeline creator/project manager. It has the original box, manuals,
key
template, registration certificate and the original 5.25" 360k
floppies
(still in the envelope). From scanning the manual it's roughly
1986/87
vintage and should run on most any machine from 8086/8088 up
through our
present array of hardware.
Really good condition visually too, might be good as part of a
collection.
Need $12 for it which includes mailing in the 48 CONUS states.
First
come, first serve. Email me direct for info.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
< > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my gues
< > is you need to take a very light cut...
<
< With a very sharp cutting tool!
You don't cut it you grind it! If done on a lathe you turn the rubber
part and run a high speed grinder against it. It's insures it will be
concentric and gives a smooth surface.
the alternate is to spin the tire and work against a hard surfaced
abrasive board.
< > As a kludge, and to ensure it is concentric with the spindle, why not
< > the drive motor ? Put the oversize tyre on the spindle, get the motor
< > turning (a knowledge of how the drive operates, and the interface
< > signals, helps), and take a light cut over the surface with a sharp kn
< > blade.
disconnect the motor and power it from a supply rather than risk cooking
the drive electronics.
< Rather dependent upon the drive. In many, the tyre is rather
< inaccesible, and then there is the risk of jamming things up with rubber
< dust/shavings.
that is an issue too. the solution is to demount the moter and work off
drive.
Allison
I have for sale (or trade in some cases) the following items which may
be of interest to those looking for a second machine, a utility machine,
or just something cheap to tinker with...
*PS/2 Model 30 (2 floppy unit, no HDD)- 8088 mani unit/no ram - $15 +
shipping
*PS/2 Model 30's - 8088 main unit/no ram - $20 each + shipping
*PS/2 Model 30-286's - 286 main unit/no ram - $25 each + shipping
*PS/2 Model 50Z's - 286 main unit/no ram - $25 each + shipping
*PS/2 Model 55SX's - 386SX main unit/no ram - $30 each + shipping
*PS/2 Model 56SLC's - 486 main unit/no ram - $120 each + shipping (SCSI
drive)
*PS/2 Model 57SLC (1 only) - 486 main unit/no ram - $150 + shipping
(SCSI drive)
*PS/2 Model 65's - 386SX tower unit/no ram-$45 each + shipping (some
SCSI types)
*PS/2 Model 80's - 386DX tower unit/no ram-$50 each + shipping (some
SCSI types)
*IBM 5150 "PC" and 5160 "XT'" - inquire. Available w or w/o monitor or
keyboard
*IBM 5170 "AT"'s - 286 workhorse main unit, contents vary - inquire
Above are case, power supply, motherbd, floppy, hard drive, applicable
controller(s) in great shape but without memory. Memory will be obtained
by buyer or available with unit for a little more. All have built in VGA
video, serial, parallel, mouse and keyboard ports. Hard drive sizes
vary. All are tested and in great physical and electronic condition.
Also available:
*PS/2 Model 55SX motherboards - complete/no ram - $10 each + shipping
*MCA 16/4 token ring cards - long and short - $5 each or 3 for $10 (plus
shipping)
*MCA 3270 adapters BNC type - long and short - 5 for $10 plus shipping
*Cases for many IBM machines, power suppiles, etc. drop a note with your
needs
Many other parts, cards and items for IBM and other brand machines.
Discounts may apply to multiple purchases, mixed or same. Please
inquire.
Shipping is generally by USPS parcel post but UPS may be used upon
request. Payment by cashier's check or money order, no personal checks
please. COD only with prior approval and incurs additionl COD charges.
Info on each model's specs and pictures can be obtained at
http://members.tripod.com/~ps2page/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, all:
Another crazy project...
While working on my old-DOS decompilation project, I've found that it
would be handy to have some sort of ICE hardware/software to watch the
boot-up sequence, examine specific registers, test code fragments, etc.,
without crashing my PeeCee. I've been using Debug and testing code fragments
to watch changes in the registers.
Can anyone point me to a GNU/shareware software-based ICE program, much
like NuMega's Soft-ICE Windows, that can do this for DOS? Is it even
possible to use a software-based ICE in this instance (because it's before
DOS boots).
How about this...how about a virtual PC running under OS/2 or Windows
NT? It would have to be re-bootable (without crashing the host operating
system) and support hot-key break-to-debugger. Sort of like a cross between
the vMac Macintosh emulator and WDEB386 (the Windows Kernel debugger). It
would be odd to emulate an 8088 on a Pentium 233MMX...hmmm...sounds like a
project.
Any thoughts???
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
>I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a
>rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs,
>switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s
>are becoming turtle highways. How about running a T1 line between the
>house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite
>suprising.
>
>Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond
>ethernet/token thing cards?
I'm not sure anything beyond ethernet would strictly be considered
'classic', but I have a set of DS5000/200s connected via FDDI.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
So I've captured a few new machines - now all I have to do is figure out what to do with them.
1. Fortune 32/16 - System, seperate SCSI tape drive, no HD. No software. Help!
2. 7 (count 'em, 7) Wang systems. I'll have model numbers &such tomorrow (something along the lines
of PC-02). Only three monitors, only one keyboard. Two 5 1/4 flopies per, no software. Any help
would be a start. Most have Network cards of some kind - is this ethernet? Each has two BNC
connecters. Almost looks like a daisy-chain system of some kind.
--
J. Buck Caldwell
Engineer - Technical Support - Webmaster
Polygon, Inc. email:buck_c@polygon.com phone: (314) 432-4142
PO Box 8470 http://www.polygon.com/ fax: (314) 997-9696
St. Louis, MO 63132 ftp://ftp.polygon.com/ bbs: (314) 997-9682
I've seen them in computer magazines (Computer Shopper) for $15-20. You
may also be able to try a computer show.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Poesie <poesie(a)geocities.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: laptop IDE drives & homebuilt connectors...
> Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 10:50 PM
>
> I know I've seen these, but would anyone have some suggestions as to
> how to go about building a little board to connect laptop IDE drives to
> standard PC IDE interfaces? I gather it would just involve lining up the
> pins, and adding in some power. I have seen them for 20$ US in stores,
> but my searches as of late have uncovered nothing. anybody do this on a
> regular basis? all suggestions welcomed.
>
> -Eric
>
>
I know I've seen these, but would anyone have some suggestions as to
how to go about building a little board to connect laptop IDE drives to
standard PC IDE interfaces? I gather it would just involve lining up the
pins, and adding in some power. I have seen them for 20$ US in stores,
but my searches as of late have uncovered nothing. anybody do this on a
regular basis? all suggestions welcomed.
-Eric
< Which brings me to my question, I went ahead and plugged the TU-58 drive
< in to see if they would give any indication of life. Not a thing. Do t
< have to be plugged into the line (serial I think), or have a tape in the
< before they will show any signs of life?
One thing to check first. Has the drive roller turned to goo? the tend
to age badly and turn into a sticky mess. I have a fix however.
If that is ok with the cover off whatch the action of the led on the
controller board. If show activity all is good.
generally, if the drive roller is good you can count on the rest.
Allison
I've got one of these machines in a closet downstairs. It has a QIC tape
drive, a bunch of DB9 serial ports, and a bunch of Z80 processors. Does
anybody here know anything about these boxes?
thanks
rob
I realize this is off topic, but in case anyone is interested
www.onsale.com is selling these for $349.00 of course the one I just got
came to $386.46 when you add in shipping.
They've got a 1.44Mb floppy, 16Mb of RAM, 2Mb video card, 233Mhz processor
and some other things. It doesn't sound like they've got a hard drive,
keyboard, or mouse, adn there is no monitor. Still I gather it's a fairly
good price, and a bunch of people in the DEC newsgroups are picking them up
(I gather they still have about 25 to sell). The best part is this model
is supposedly able to run OpenVMS (Alpha), WinNT, Linux, and DEC Unix.
Now all I've got to do is save up for a copy of OpenVMS for the Alpha :^)
On the downside RAM looks to be spendy for these suckers.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
A while back there was a thread re an Archive board ID but I've been unable to
find it in my archives. It seemed at the time similiar to a card I have.
It's an 8 bit card with a 25 pin F port and a 50 pin internal; it's got an FCC
ID # EAX6GP-SC400S which I haven't checked yet since most of the time
they're useless. Someone had written 102 A in marker pen.The most important
chip is one labelled Archive PT and at the bottom 8517A. It has an E-Prom
m5l2764k , another 64 pin chip has 4 numbers , the top one is R6511AQ and the
bottom one is 8439 (always had trouble identifying chips based on labelling).
It has IRQ stencilled jumpers 2-7 and 5 is jumpered. It has DRQ (DMA ?) 1,2,3
, DACK 1,2,-3 with 1 jumpered on 1 and 3(1), another set of 7 jumpers labelled
A3-A9. There are 5 LEDs labelled DS1-DS9. There's a couple of other jumpers and
the rest is mostly low powered Schotskys.
Anyone with any idea on what this is ?
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, 1 August 1998 13:17
Subject: Re: BART and PDP8's?
>
>< A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that
>< BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the
>< San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems.
><
>< Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring
>< some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon
>
>THey are real and used to control signs and a few other things. Not
>likely in the near future from what I've heard.
>
>Allison
>
Down here in Tasmania, Australia all the traffic lights are still controlled
by pdp 11/43s.....
*Desie*
On another point, I was lent a Wangtek 5099EN11 drive, which seems to have
a QIC-36 interface (and the Sun won't talk to it), is there anyway of
getting this drive to emulate a QIC-02 interface? (jumper?)
Cheers
Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Maftoum
Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia
Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au
OK... if you want a -really- basic 3100/M38, get in contact with this
guy. I think he may be disappointed when he finds out what the boxes are
worth in the real world.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On 2 Aug 1998 03:49:05 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote:
>>From: meozzy(a)aol.com (MeOzzy)
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
>>Subject: DEC 3100/m38 FS:
>>Lines: 11
>>Message-ID: <1998080203490500.XAA12383(a)ladder01.news.aol.com>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
>>X-Admin: news(a)aol.com
>>Date: 2 Aug 1998 03:49:05 GMT
>>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.14.7.19!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!144.212.95.13!nntprelay.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
>>
>>FS: Dec 3100/M38 No hard, keyboards or mouse,
>>
>>MAKE OFFER
>>
>>QTY : 5
>>
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>Email only!!!!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
Greetings all;
Looking for some information on a new find. A Data I/O Tape Perforator.
It's an 8 level, desktop paper tape punch with LED data display (one LED
for each channel), and apparently a parallel interface of some type, altho
the connector looks somewhat similar to an IEEE-488 connector. However
looking at the logic board in the thing pretty much rules out a '488
interface. (not nearly enuf smarts on the board)
So... I'm seeking some info on this thing, most specifically with regard
to the interface. And before you ask, there is no 'model' number shown on
the unit. The ID plate on the back just says "tape perforator".
Looked at the Data I/O web site, and found nothing (big surprise... not!)
So before I break down and call them to find that no one has any clue as to
what I'm asking (sarcasm flag) about, I figured I'd try here.
Any help?
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
If anyone can help this guy out, please respond to him directly.
Thanks.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Sat, 01 Aug 1998 15:23:13 -0700, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote:
>>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,vmsnet.pdp-11
>>From: Dann Lunsford <dann(a)greycat.com>
>>Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 15:23:13 -0700
>>Subject: RT-11 V4 Manual Set
>>Message-ID: <35c39c52$1$qnaa$mr2ice(a)news.calweb.com>
>>X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.47 b47
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: bigphred.greycat.com
>>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: bigphred.greycat.com
>>X-Trace: 1 Aug 1998 15:53:10 +0700, bigphred.greycat.com
>>Organization: "CalWeb Internet Services Inc. Your affordable ISP."
>>Lines: 25
>>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: news.calweb.com
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!calwebnntp!calwebnnrp!bigphred.greycat.com
>>Xref: blushng.jps.net alt.sys.pdp11:290 vmsnet.pdp-11:359
>>
>>I've reached about as far as I can with my little 11/23+ system, and I
>>need help. Does anyone have a *complete* doc set for RT-11 V. 4 that
>>they don't need or are thinking of throwing out? Or know someone who
>>has? I would like to give it a good home, where it could feel useful
>>again. All I have is fragmentary (very!) HT-11 stuff, and a couple of
>>version 3 manuals. I've figured out some things by reading the source,
>>and just trying things based on what the V3 stuff says (Managed to
>>sysgen a new system that way), as well as excavating long buried
>>memories, but that takes way too long, and is fraught with peril :-).
>>Would Mentec still have the doc for V4 for sale (I know, call 'em. It's
>>Saturday here, can't call till Monday.)? Somehow, I doubt it.
>>
>>Anyway, I'm willing to pay a reasonable price and (of course) shipping.
>>If you have a set, let me know, please? Email preferred; don't wish to
>>spam the froup.
>>
>>TIA.
>>
>>Dann L.
>>--
>>Dann Lunsford * The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil *
>>dann(a)greycat.com * is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero *
>>"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
>>"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
> Believe it or not there are still many people out there with old
(ancient) rotary dial telephones.
Hey, I still have one, in my computer room (ex-spare bedroom) at home.
It's not so ancient, anyway, it's worked for the last 30 years, probably
good for another 30. The bell is disconnected so it doesn't ring, an
excellent feature.
Jack Peacock
I am unsubscribing for about three weeks while I go away. I don't
want to bounce messages all over the place
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Ok,
Sorry about the delay, I got busy with work and didn't get around to
working on the Sun unti tonight :)
I cleaned the heads with some isopropyl alcohol tonight, but to no avail,
I still get the dreaded 96A0 error, I'm beginning to suspect the tapes,
however it doesn't matter what tape I put in, it gives exactly the same
error, so unless all 4 SunOS tapes have had it, it may be the drive.
Further to the error codes, a tape with write protect off gives 86A0 error
:)
Thanks
Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Maftoum
Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia
Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au
< Also don't forget that NEC was pushing the V20s as cheap replacement
< for the Intel 8088s. So TRS may have switched to the V20s. The V20 is al
< faster and uses less power than the 8088. Big factors in a battery powe
< laptop. Later Intel sued NEC and blocked the sale of V20 and V30s so TR
< may have had to switch back to 8088s.
Intel sued and attempted to block. They would loose and V20 deliveries
were never interrutped to sales to new design ins were slowed.
The original V20 was Nmos like the 8088, though lower power. The cmos
parts were later.
Allison
Found on Usenet. If you want anything on the list, get in touch with the
fellow directly.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:18:50 GMT, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote:
>>From: mrussel1(a)twcny.rr.com (MikeR)
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro
>>Subject: FS Mv2 parts
>>Message-ID: <35c25061.1888220@news-server>
>>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235
>>Lines: 9
>>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:18:50 GMT
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: d185cee18.twcny.rr.com
>>NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:18:50 EDT
>>Organization: TWC Road Runner
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!24.92.226.83!newse1.twcny.rr.com!not-for-mail
>>
>>
>>1-Tk50 controler
>>1-8 line comms card
>>1-RQDX3 controler
>>1-KA630 cpu card
>>2-4meg memory cards
>>
>>Make offer on part or all cards listed.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
< Allison, does the TK50Z bare drive have a 50-pin connector as compared
< with a lesser (26-pin) connector on the non-SCSI drives?
The actual drive is the TK50. There is a scsi bridge to make it a tk50z.
< Aside from the drive and a power supply, what does the pizza box contain
What are we talking about a tk50z in a ba42 box?
Allison
< On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote:
<
< > A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet tha
< > BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of th
< > San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems
< >
< > Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring
< > some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime so
Below is the header for a program to do several things. A contact, it
make be severely dated and verification.
This was gotten off one of the PDP-8 archive sites, it was over a years
ago so I've forgotton which one though I know most are still there.
below the program header is further information on PDP-8s from PDP8-lovers
list.
Allison
/***********************************************************************/
/* */
/* Program: PAL (BART version) */
/* File: pal.c */
/* Author: Gary A. Messenbrink <gary(a)netcom.com> */
/* */
/* Purpose: A 2 pass PDP-8 pal-like assembler. */
/* */
/* PAL(1) */
/* */
/* NAME */
/* pal - a PDP/8 pal-like assembler. */
/* */
/* SYNOPSIS: */
/* pal [ -d -l -p -r -x ] inputfile */
/* */
/* DESCRIPTION
You can get information about the pdp8-lovers mailing list by sending an
email message to pdp8-lovers-info(a)zach1.tiac.net or by sending email to
pdp8-lovers-request(a)zach1.tiac.net with just the word "info" in the body.
You can get the most recent version of the PDP-8 FAQ from:
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/alt.sys.pdp8ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/dec-faq
ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt.sys.pdp8
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8/docshttp://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/dec-faq/top.htmlhttp://www.smartpages.com/bngfaqs/alt/sys/pdp8/top.htmlhttp://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/dec-faq/.html
Well.... I suppose it's one form of computer you might
not think of collecting... anyone collect bosch d and l
jet-tronic fuel injector "computers"? They were used, among other places,
in 1970s VWs to improve emissions and power. Hah! how's THAT for a tie
back to topic? :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds
>Exxxactly! I guess now we can all get back to computer topics, like how to
install
>a terminal in a VW beetle or something <G>
>
>Jim wrote:
>
>> Okay at the risk of serious off topic... the schwimwagon was built for
service
>> in World War Two by VW. It had snorkels on the exhaust and on the air
intake
>> for both the carb and the fan (air cooled engine) and a propeller shaft
>> off the main pully and through the bumper.
>> --
>> Jim Strickland
>> jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>--
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Russ Blakeman
> RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
> Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
> Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
> Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
> ICQ UIN #1714857
> AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
> * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
At 11:08 PM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> Or was some mistake made at the factory (they ran
>> out of V20 chips?) and an Intel chip was put in this one? Does anyone else
>> have a 1400 with an Intel 8088? It this computer possibly worth more than
>> the one with the V20 (I doubt it)?
>
>Part substitutions like this are very common, especially with very similar
>parts like the 8088 and V20. Sometimes manufacturers run into problems
>getting the chips they need, and often have to take far more drastic
>measures, like coming up with kludge boards, piggybacking parts, hacking
>up the traces, etc., just because vendor A is saying "12 weeks" and
>customer is saying "next week", all for a $4.00 part.
Also don't forget that NEC was pushing the V20s as cheap replacements
for the Intel 8088s. So TRS may have switched to the V20s. The V20 is also
faster and uses less power than the 8088. Big factors in a battery powered
laptop. Later Intel sued NEC and blocked the sale of V20 and V30s so TRS
may have had to switch back to 8088s.
Joe
I want one...I'll pay shiping and the $4.98...PLease email me with info...
Thanx
Michael Sunbear(*)
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Attention Collectors . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>What is a multispeed anyway? Is it a turbo XT? How much does it
>weigh?
>
>
>>
>>If anyone really wants one of these I can pick two up (unknown
>condition)
>>at a local thrift store for $4.98 each and ship it at your cost.
>>
>>Sam Alternate e-mail:
>dastar(a)siconic.com
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>>Ever onward.
>>
>> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
>> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>> [Last web page update: 07/26/98]
>>
>>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
Does anyone have a copy of the "MOS Technology KIM-1 Manual" (the
instruction manual that came with the KIM-1) that they would be willing to
copy for me? I'd be more than willing to reimburse for copying costs.
Thanks.
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
I use the industrial "pallet racking" available from Home Depot. I think
that they cost me around $50-60 per set (4 shelves), but they have a claimed
capacity of 1500lbs/shelf. The shelf material is MDF (medium-density
fiberboard), and is very strong. I feel very secure that these shelves would
be standing long after I'm gone.
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
Aw crud! I didn't mean to send this to the list :)
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dellett, Anthony [mailto:Anthony.Dellett@Staples.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 11:08 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: Looking for S-100 Systems
>
>
> Definately. I have seen you on the classicmp mailing list. Sorry about
> sounding like a bonehead with the PDP/11 boot problem. It's
> not my bag.
>
> Tony Dellett
> --
>
> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:48:56 Tim Shoppa wrote:
> >In article <6p2mi9$1jg$1(a)nnrp1.dejanews.com> you write:
> >>I'm looking for a few old S-100 systems from my old high
> school days.
> >>Specifically:
> >>
> >>Cromemco S-100 systems (Z2 mostly)
> >
> >I have a Z2 and several Z3 systems, all located in Bethesda MD.
> >Interested?
> >
> >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) (301-767-5917)
> >
>
The experience I've had was in the apartment where I live, where it
is best to make stuff as opposed to buying it because it is difficult
to fit storebought things as efficiently. And it probably looks
better. Plywood is probably not the best shelving material; I don't
know much about this stuff, but wouldn't solid wood be stronger?
>> drill the appropriate holes, and insert bolts in strategic locations.
>> That gorilla rack will probably cost more.
>
>Um, not really. I built a nice 8' x 2' 4-shelf plywood rack and it
ended
>up costing me $80 in lumber and supplies, plus a night to hammer it all
>together. I got twice the space a Gorilla rack would have given me but
at
>eight times the hassle.
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 07/26/98]
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Don't know about that, but when I worked in Silicon Valley for a well known
microprocessor manufacturer, one of our pieces of state of the art
lithography equipment was controlled by micro pdp-11s. We had to put them
on their own ethernet segment because the regular segments were so busy the
PDP ethernet cards would interupt the machines to death. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Seth J. Morabito <sethm(a)loomcom.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 8:47 PM
Subject: BART and PDP8's?
>Hey folks,
>
>A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that
>BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the
>San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems.
>
>Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring
>some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon?
>
>-Seth
>--
>"It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth J. Morabito
> You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm(a)loomcom.com
>
At 05:57 PM 7/30/98 -0700, Bruce wrote:
>
> Check my web page under http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin/calswap.html. I have
>Weird Stuff (and most of the other Bay Area stores) listed.
>
>Thanks for this list and reviews. I just noticed all the places I wrote
down have a 4xx street address, for example Excess Soln's in San Jose.
More incentive to visit the bay area.
-Dave
At 10:31 30-07-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:
>
>> So, I guess my question is, how to others store their collection? Keep in
>> mind that I'm in San Francisco, and that Earthquakes are an issue. Thanks!
>
>Unfortunately, mine is all stored in big heaps, one unit stacked upon the
>next. I have little things like laptops and cables and crap like that in
>boxes to make them stackable. Big things like S-100 and PDP boxen are
>stacked about 5 or 6 feet high with an unstackable terminal to cap it off.
>Little things are crammed into whatever nooks and crannies are left over.
>Things like ASR33's are always a problem. I had shelf space at one point
>but it is now taken up by the all-in-one systems like the PETs and Lisa
>and some terminals. Now all the shelf space is crammed.
>
>Its a nightmare.
Amen brother! I'm STILL trying to get all the accumulation of 'stuff' moved
out of our old house into the newer house. 21 years worth of 'stuff'. Two
weekends ago, a work colleague and I spent 4 hours on that Saturday
afternoon moving only *part* of my library. That work consisted of two full
loads in my wife's Jeep Cherokee and our friend's Ford Ranger SUV. Books
and old magazines are really heavy to move up two flights of stairs. I
think we got maybe a third of the library moved. We were almost dead after
that. Bev and I have been making small trips in the evenings after supper
to take the antique radio collection and tools over to the house and we're
making a little bit of headway at that. If we had originally hauled
_everything_ over in one or two shots, stuff would be piled up in such a
manner I could not ever sort and arrange it properly.
I guess the lesson learned here for us is to consider what we keep and pass
on to someone else stuff we really should not.
Another lesson is _don't_ pack it in so danged tight that if we do have to
move (or more regrettably, have to pickup after an earthquake or flood)
that the moving task is nearly impossible to do. Also, I cannot find stuff
that I _know_ I had put away in the pile.
I can't believe all the crap I'm dragging out that I squirrelled away over
the last two decades. A part of it is actually heading for the dumpster and
most of you would certainly agree if you see it.
>
>I don't recommend this sort of storage arrangement. I don't know where
>anything is and couldn't get at it anyway even if I did. But it allows me
>to store the massive amounts of computer junk I have until I can find a
>suitable space to do it justice.
Agreed re: not recommended! I thought we could find a house with more
space for my stuff but nothing that was an affordable price came up for us
around here. The new place is just a little bit smaller, now I'm having to
sort out stuff to sell, swap or otherwise get rid of. As I said before,
some of the old computer stuff I need to divest will be mentioned to you
folks first.
>
>What I recommend to Roger is to first, add an extra support to your
>shelves, and make sure you are anchoring them properly with drywall
>anchors (if you are mounting the shelves to drywall). Then, pack your
>laptops and such inside boxes with some foam in between. That way, if
>there is another episode, or an earthquake hits and the computers fall, at
>least they will be moderately protected from damaging each other when they
>hit the floor. You also might want to consider getting some netting to
>prevent the boxes from falling in the first place (in an earthquake at
>least). I imagine this would cost some bucks but maybe Target has a good
>net material cheap in the garden section. Try Home Depot for ideas also.
Good suggestions. The other msg in this thread mentioned chicken wire as a
netting-type material too. Although we don't have a real earthquake problem
in Western NY State we still do feel them once in a while. Tornados and
blizzards are the natural problems we have to deal with more often.
I do make sure my shelves are tied to a wall, rafters/floor joists above
them or simply themselves together in a mutually supportive manner just in
case. If a moderately Big One ever occurred out here, we would be in great
trouble as the earth deep down is quite solid and even small local quakes
would hurt us more. That Madrid Fault in the Midwest is being watched with
a wary eye by some earthquake specialists at the Eathquake Center at the
University of Buffalo. Jamestown is sitting on the same tectonic plate. We
even feel a jiggle from 3.5 quakes that hit 400 or more miles away out east
of here. I know what a 3.6 is as I sat in the dinning room of my best
friend and her husband's house up in Orinda, California when one hit in
August, '87 centered about 10 or 20 miles away. I really hope and pray that
you folks on the Left Coast are not hurt by any nasty quakes that occur.
Regards,
--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
> Of course, you might as well buy pipe and strong wood from home depot
> drill the appropriate holes, and insert bolts in strategic locations.
> That gorilla rack will probably cost more.
You'd be hard pressed to beat the price and still have it look good.
I forget if they were $79 or $89, I got some dirty looks by climbing
on on that was at floor level to see how stiff they were. They are.
Allison
> Jason,
>
> Missed the boat completely, Go to the
> http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm
> and follow the links for that L40 memory hacking. It says:
> "Selfmade memory modules for L40, TP350 and TP710T."
> You can use the standard true parity 70ns or faster and have someone
> setup the jumper pads as shown or you have the required soldering
> skills and stuff to pull that off.
>
> I had to do that for my compaq 4/33i, nec 386/33i and ibm
> motherboard. Every one worked on those pair of generic true parity
> simms I had resetted the jumpers to proper settings as shown.
>
> That pair of simms I gotten was generic standard parity 70ns 4MB with
> incorrect jumper setup on them! Cost? under $50 new for two.
>
> Jason D.
>
THANK YOU!!!!
I have a pile (well, 3) of 4MB parity SIMMS from a Gateway 2000 in my
basement.
ThAnX,
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
< A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that
< BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the
< San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems.
<
< Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring
< some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon
THey are real and used to control signs and a few other things. Not
likely in the near future from what I've heard.
Allison
Not sure if this got thru. If it repeats my apologies.
A while back there was a thread re an Archive board ID but I've been unable to
find it in my archives. It seemed at the time similiar to a card I have.
It's an 8 bit card with a 25 pin F port and a 50 pin internal; it's got an FCC
ID # EAX6GP-SC400S which I haven't checked yet since most of the time
they're useless. Someone had written 102 A in marker pen.The most important
chip is one labelled Archive PT and at the bottom 8517A. It has an E-Prom
m5l2764k , another 64 pin chip has 4 numbers , the top one is R6511AQ and the
bottom one is 8439 (always had trouble identifying chips based on labelling).
It has IRQ stencilled jumpers 2-7 and 5 is jumpered. It has DRQ (DMA ?) 1,2,3
, DACK 1,2,-3 with 1 jumpered on 1 and 3(1), another set of 7 jumpers labelled
A3-A9. There are 5 LEDs labelled DS1-DS9. There's a couple of other jumpers and
the rest is mostly low powered Schotskys.
Anyone with any idea on what this is ?
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Found on Usenet. If anyone of our UK readers is interested, I'd suggest
getting hold of the person before they turn it into a rabbit hutch. ;-)
<snip>
On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:40:24 +0100, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote:
>>From: stuart <s.d.birchall(a)surveying.salford.ac.uk>
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp11
>>Subject: Free, PDP11 cpu, UK
>>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:40:24 +0100
>>Organization: university of salford
>>Lines: 8
>>Message-ID: <35C1E568.A1C3D157(a)surveying.salford.ac.uk>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: ruby.construct-it.salford.ac.uk
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I)
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!uunet!in3.uu.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!demeter.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!peer.news.bb.u-net.net!u-net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!ananke.salford.ac.uk!not-for-mail
>>Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.sys.dec:2429 alt.sys.pdp11:288
>>
>>Hi,
>>I have a fully loaded PDP11/45 cpu, to give away, Manchester area, UK.
>>No PSU, but blower units still in place. Make good restoration
>>project, or rabbit hutch.
>>Thanks.
>>Stu
>>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
I don't know if this is worthy of being a Classic Computer, yet (it's 8 yrs
old), but here it goes:
I have a PS/2 L40 sx laptop. It has 2MB onboard RAM, and a 60 MB HD. I
was wondering if anyone had any expansion RAM, or knew where I could get
some for a low price. It has "planar sockets". They look like standard
72-pin SIMM sockets, but Non-parity won't work, parity won't work, and not
even PS/2 RAM works in it. I guess it needs a special type of RAM that was
made by IBM especially for this computer.
ANY information is appreciated!!!
ThAnX,
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
