- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"John B" <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > I saw an HP mini at a local warehouse.... > > Here is what I saw/what I have been told: > > It is an HP-2 (is there such a thing)? Maybe. More likely there are more digits, like 2116, 2114, 2115, 2100, 21MX, 21xx.... Most of the HP1000 CPUs have 21xx numbers as well. The 1000 line was, originally, a bundle of a 2100-family computer with HP's RTE real-time executive; eventually HP silk-screened "1000" on the front instead of "21MX", but the actual model number of the processor (the tag on the back) was still 21xx. There were also the HP2000 time-shared BASIC systems, built out of one or two 2100-family processors. 2100-family processors also found their way into all sorts of big HP test and measurement systems in the very late 1960s and 1970s. For example (note these URLs are *temporary*): http://www.reanimators.org/tmp/8322.jpg - scan of a photo of an 8580B automatic spectrum analyzer; the box at the top of the left rack is an HP2100A. http://www.reanimators.org/tmp/8324.jpg = scan of a drawing of an 8541A automatic network analyzer; the top of the right rack is what an HP2116 looks like, and underneath that would appear to be a drawer, a filler panel, a paper tape reader, and a paper tape punch. (Trimmed 90-some lines of quoted irrelevant text -- c'mon folks, you can use your editors too....) -Frank McConnell

26 years, 6 months

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RRD42 and TKZ50

by classiccmp＠mrynet.com

> Anybody know where I can pick up a DEC RRD42 scsi cd-rom drive, a > TKZ30 tape cartridge drive, and a few TK50 tapes to go with said drive? > I may just try to resurrect this VAX and replace the two 105mb HDs with > a single 1-gig unit... regarding the CD, this was posted here recently: http://www.vramp.net/dec.htm > > I'm also in need of a serial cable that has the funny "offset rj11" plug > on one end and a standard DB25 on the other... so any pointers will be > appreciated. > > Bill Using a 3-pair phone cable and filing down the tab is what I use for my *Stations. Has always worked just fine for me that way with the standard H8571 DB25 adapters on the other end too. Regards, --skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans -----

26 years, 6 months

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No subject

by whdawson＠mlynk.com

index listname

26 years, 6 months

2
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pdp8/11 console cable pinouts

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > I assume your packs are all 16 sector ones. The PDP8 uses those, while > the PDP11 uses 12 sector packs (which, alas, are a lot more common). Indeed, it's true. I'd even trade two-for-one to get some 16-sector packs. Would it be worth the experiment to butcher a 12-sector pack into a 12-sector pack and reformat it? 12 sectors = 30 degrees, 16 sectors = 22.5 degrees. The idea would be to patch over eight of the slits on the 12 sector pack and cut 12 new ones (by bisecting the circle several times). I haven't disassembled an RK05 in years (the last time was in 1988 when my boss pointed me at two pallets of drives and asked me to get two working units out of the pile - I got four working and carted home the scrap) - the sensor that detects the slits in the pack is optical, not hall-effect, right? Just a thought. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 6 months

8
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FS/FT: Tektronix 6130 Workstation

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

In the ever on-going attempt to consolidate space in the garage and related warehouse spaces (read that - pay less rent!) I'm offering up another random piece that is lurking about and is not a major item of interest to me. A Tektronix 6130 workstation (circa 1984). I'm not horribly familiar with it, but I'll tell you what I know about it. (going from a Tek brochure) 32016 CPU, 32-bit display list processor, 32081 Floating Point Processor, 1MB memory, 360kb 5.25 diskette drive, 20Mb hard drive, dusl RS-232 interface, IEEE-488 interface, LAN interface, UNIX derivitive operating system (Utek?). Known hardware in the warehouse includes: CPU chassis, console display, graphics display (color I believe), keyboard, (at least one) box full of extra boards and parts, asstd. docs and manuals... I think (but don't hold me to this) I recall seeing a mouse and diskettes somewhere but I'll have to go digging. It was reportedly operational when it came to me a couple of years ago. I've never tried to start it up. This may be a pre-production or engineering model just judging from some of the tags/ID plates (or lack thereof) ...and what do I want from this??? Something interesting that fits in more with my primary interests (PDP-8 stuff is good, or check the 'wish list' on my web pages), or enough of a $$ offer to make it worth my while. (over and above shipping costs, unless you are going to pick it up) B^} So...? -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

26 years, 6 months

1
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IBM 360/370 emulation?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Anyone know where I can get my hands on an emulator of an IBM 360/370? Always wanted to meet one, and I'm curious. (Taking a shortish rest from working on the '10. I'm into paging and such now and it's giving me fits.) Failing that, anyone know where to get documentation so I can hack one up after I'm done fighting with E10? Altavista search turns up junk matches (resumes and such) and a couple emulators that have disappeared. -------

26 years, 6 months

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WTD: Mostek Z-80 reference booklet

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I've got a scanned version on my web site; I think it's in the classic computers section under documentation. It's there somewhere, scanned at high enough resolution to be printed and be able to read the tiny little text... >Apropos the post earlier today, from the person with a Z-80 reference card >to give away ... > >Does anyone have a spare Mostek Z-80 reference booklet? These were the >tiny little booklets, that (among other applications) Radio Shack packaged >with either T-Bug, or with the Editor/Assembler (for the TRS-80 Model 1). >I used to have one a long time ago, but can't seem to find it anymore. > >--Pat. > > > Bill Richman incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)

26 years, 6 months

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WTD: Mostek Z-80 reference booklet

by pat＠transarc.ibm.com

Apropos the post earlier today, from the person with a Z-80 reference card to give away ... Does anyone have a spare Mostek Z-80 reference booklet? These were the tiny little booklets, that (among other applications) Radio Shack packaged with either T-Bug, or with the Editor/Assembler (for the TRS-80 Model 1). I used to have one a long time ago, but can't seem to find it anymore. --Pat.

26 years, 6 months

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IBM system 36

by mee＠deep.lai.phkk.fi

I like to know what processor is on IBM system 36 (5363) and maximum memory capasity. Other information is also welcome. Tnx

26 years, 6 months

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Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> If you like the big thingys, the old PC (not AT) Keyboard was quite >> ok (I'm using some still today on Pentium class machines :), but the > >Could you explain how you get around the incompatibilities of the pre-AT >keyboard circuit? At one point (oh, almost ten years ago now) small "adapters" were readily available for a few tens of bucks to let you use true blue IBM PC keyboards on machines expecting AT keyboards. I haven't seen these being sold for many years, but they must occasionally turn up at the usual outlets. Personally, I don't really like the IBM PC keyboards, I'm far more agile with a VT100 or DEC LK201 at my fingertips :-). >ON-Topic_analogy: The phrase "SINGLE-Density" never existed until the >marketing people started calling MFM "DOUBLE-Density". Good point. When did IBM introduce MFM "double-density" MFM 8 inch floppies? I'm guessing 1975 or 1976, based on samples I have here. The DEC RX02 was just a little bit later, IIRC. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 6 months

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TRW Report

by wsmith＠gj.com

> Well... pitiful is a good word. I went sort of from curiosity >and also because it was the first TRW in the new venue. Could you let me know where the new venue is, and the date for the next one? Thanks. Wayne

26 years, 6 months

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Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's.

by foxnhare＠jps.net

> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:21:56 GMT > From: "David Vohs" <netsurfer_x1(a)hotmail.com> > > Here is a varied list of computers (and computer-related things) that were > either famous or infamous for various reasons > > First, the infamous ones > > Computer with the worst keyboard: (tie) Sinclair ZX-81/Timex Sinclair 1000 & > IBM PC Jr. I agree with the other respondents, the original PET keyboard is hard to type on period. At least on the PC-jr you had decent spacing. Later pet keyboards were a vast improvement but not the best. Atari 400 could also be on the list, but the touch sensors were better then Sinclair's. > Computer with the slowest disk drive: Commodore 64(C). A sad tale goes with that distinction, it is capable of much better speed but certain marketing/design choices were made for the wrong reasons. :( > Most infamous computer by price: Apple Lisa. I remember seeing that in a computer store, $10,000, wow! had nice demos, though. > And now the famous ones > > Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. > Computer with the best speech synthesizer: TI-99/4A. There are sooo many, I would have to suggest the "Alien Voicebox" (Atari and Commodore VIC/64) that sythesiser has (software controllable) pitch/speed and is able to SING! ;) Amiga was good. As for Commdore 64 voice sythesisers I can list SAM, Easy Speech, VoiceMaster, Votrax, Alien Voicebox, Commodore's, and a couple magazine projects.. > Most famous "vaporware" computer: Xerox Alto. Vaporware should reflect something that was promised but never saw the light of day. I would put the Commodore 8-bit LCD in the running, man did I WANT one of those! > Computer with the best sound hardware: (tie) TI-99/4A & Commodore 64(C). Yep, Amiga also should be on the list. > Computer with the coolest pitchman: William Shatner. (VIC-20) Even though I hate IBM I thought the chaplinesque hobo was nice. > Computer with the coolest case design: TI-99/4A. (The case reminds me of a > Delorean. Remember those?) I liked the Atari 800, pop open expansion bay, four joystick ports (in the front no less!) > Computer with the best introductory commercial: Apple Macintosh. ("On > January 24, Apple will introduce Macintosh. And you will see why 1984 won't > be like "1984"".) I agree. Here are some more: Most imfamous sales life: Mattell Aquarius and Coleco Adam. Most famous Sales life: Commodore 64(c) estimated 17 million sold for one model. Least Innovative initial release: IBM PC (only really new features were the price tag and the logo) Most overrated antique: MITS Altair (surely not as unique as some, and way more production than others) Most infamous bug-box: TRS-80 (earned the nickname Trash-80 for all the service work needed), second possibly the original PET (the original ROMs were pretty buggy) Most infamous Computer Monitor: Osborne 1 with it's 4" (?) black & white display. -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-2400 baud Commodore 8-bit page at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011

26 years, 6 months

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I need 72 pin parity simms

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Well, another christmas spend repairing and upgrading all my siblings and nephews computers. Very relaxing, actually. And I get to use up all the junk I buy over the year at onsale.com ;) But, my nephews need more ram in their computer. It spends most of its time thrashing virtual memory onto a slow bigfoot hard drive ;) If anyone has some 72 pin parity simms they want to get rid of, I could sure use them. I would need either 4 8Meg simms, or better (ie, 2 16 meg or 32 meg simms would also be great). I have dozens of 4 meg simms, but the motherboard (genuine IBM) only has 4 simm slots... -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

26 years, 6 months

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PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (wasRe:Oscilloscopes)`)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>So what you are saying is I can post most versions of every OS and state >that they may only be used on Supnik's emulator. I guess it will be up to >the honest end-user. No... only those OSes which are covered by the license (regardless of how restrictive it is) should be made available for general download. Please do NOT make later copies (in the case of RT, copies later than V5.3) available because if you do, it demonstrates to Mentec that we (the hobbyist community) might not be able to be trusted with what they have made available, which might make them less likely to remove the restrictions. The current restrictions are: 1) Only those operating systems and layered products earlier than specific releases (in the case of RT, V5.3) 2) For us ONLY on the accepted emulators (Supnik and Viking, possible Charon). 3) The license does NOT grant the right to use the software on REAL HARDWARE. So, please adhere to the terms of the license which has been arranged with Mentec/DEC/Compaq or there may not be another one (or the current one could be withdrawn). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 6 months

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RK03/RK05 rotation sensors (was Re: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > Would it be worth the experiment to butcher a 12-sector pack into a > 12-sector > > I assume you mean 'into a 16 sector pack'. Um... yeah. :-\ > According to the RK05 printset, the sensor is, indeed optical. The Diablo > model 30 (RK02/RK03) sector transducer is a coil + magnet assembly > according to the manual. That was what I was concerned about. I _used_ to have an RK03, but it got away from me over ten years ago (I think it succumbed to the basement flooding that ruined a bunch of my stuff way back when, including a Datapoint Beehive Terminal). I still have the Diablo-to-DEC-tape-cable adapters. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 6 months

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Lamp panels (was Re: PRS01 paper tape)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > However, I have found the RK11-C prints (actually while looking for the > RK05 prints to answer your other question). This gives the pinout of the > 'indicator' connectors. > > Here are the pinouts (most of page 23 in my prints). Thanks, Tony. This one goes in my archives at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/ -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 6 months

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For Free: Reference Cards

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

I have the following, in envelopes, ready to mail to the first person to request them: Z80 Processor Reference Card (Original Blue Folding) MicroPro Wordstar 3.0 Reference Card I will not, however, send them to the same person unless only one person responds. Please send name and address to me. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead

26 years, 6 months

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OT?: Illegal Transmitters

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<able to pull through. The federal bastards tried anything to bankrupt me.. <even by taking any lose change they could find the day during the raid. The FCC is like the IRS in that you have to fight them under buearcratic law in their court. talk about stacked deck. I don't doubt any of this as I've been in communications/rf for over 30 years and seen a bit. It torques me some as I've bought a few of their kits (Aircraft radio and SW radio) as they were handy for my apps (nothing illegal) and dirt cheap. Allison

26 years, 6 months

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Help IDing MicroVAX 3100

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>From the sticker on the back: <Model: DV-31BAB-A <Serial: WF94205462 VAXserver3100 M20 <Top row (installed cards? from left to right): <far left: looks like a small Centronics-type port, has this logo above it: < <--------------------- <| ---> | <| (4 - 11) | <| <--- | <--------------------- Optional extra serial port expander (yes ports 4-11). <Any idea of what exactly I've got? I know its a MicroVAX, I just dont know <how fast, how old, etc. it's a 3100 series from very late 89 through 92ish. They run VMS well and are not too slow (2.4VUP minimum). Most have dual scsi controller (SCSI-I) and are decently solid. <Anybody interested in this thing? I'm not in the mood to collect <VAXen at this point and time.. If no one jumps that is closer I'm interested. Allison

26 years, 6 months

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OT?: Illegal Transmitters

by edick＠idcomm.com

Does anybody really believe this unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of prattle? The key difference between this and normal "news" is that real stories don't have to mask the names of the participants. While it's possible, stupid as our government is, it's not likely that a legitimate source of legitimate news would report a legitimate story in this way, with oblique references to what should be in the lead, and masked references to individuals and businesses likely to sue. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:15 PM Subject: OT: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters >At 02:09 PM 12/27/99 -0800, Marvin wrote: >> >>While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at >>gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem >>collecting some computers. >> >>http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html >> >>For those of you who are html impaired, the subject concerns raids carried >>out on a number of small businesses making electronic kits including Ramsey >>Electronics and Super Circuits. The subject in question appears to be >>equipment that could be used for wiretapping. > > So what else is new? Gun owners have had to put with this kind of >harrasment and rediculous interpetation of the laws for years. > > Joe > >> >

26 years, 6 months

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PDP-10 Freeware Archive now has correct date stamps listed

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

It only took a little bit of effort (notably abandoning the Unix date/time stamp, which doesn't go before 1-Jan-1970 UTC, and switching to a system without so much lossage) to get the date stamps on the PDP-10 freeware archive entries at http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ to be correct. Now, if you go and look at a directory in the TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 categories, you will see the original date/time stamps as on the DECUS library tapes. Take a look at http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/lib10/0003/ for an example. Thanks to a couple of old-timers who persuaded me that I really shouldn't list the creation dates on these files as being 1999, when this can be off by over thirty years :-) Enjoy! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 6 months

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OT?: Illegal Transmitters

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 9:03 PM Subject: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters > > >Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >> Does anybody really believe this unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of >> prattle? The key difference between this and normal "news" is that real >> stories don't have to mask the names of the participants. > >I generally do not post what I consider to be "unsubstantiated and >uncorroborated sort of prattle." The reports may well be biased, but I also >received via email a forwarded letter from John Ramsey, owner of Ramsey >Electronics describing what happened. It does describe what happened as an >armed raid. > >Check out the Ramsey web site, and you will see more about what happened. One of my companies was raided like this in 1996. I will give John Ramsey a call tomorrow. I lost over $460K to fight the battle.. a won... barely. First thing anyone should do is release anything and everything on the internet when something like this happens, and start the press before a media ban is put on the case (like mine).With my contacts, and lawyers I was able to pull through. The federal bastards tried anything to bankrupt me.. even by taking any lose change they could find the day during the raid. I hope John kicks them back. If I wasn't so busy with the load I just got I would throw up a server in Ireland or somewhere and post some very serious high tech transmitters I had to design back in '94. It is possible to take a chunk back out of them... I hope he does it. john http://www.pdp8.com/ >

26 years, 6 months

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Help IDing MicroVAX 3100

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I just picked up a MicroVAX 3100, and need help IDing it, and possibly figuring out what its worth.

26 years, 6 months

1
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TRW Report

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well... pitiful is a good word. I went sort of from curiosity and also because it was the first TRW in the new venue. Not more than 50 sellers showed up... in 15 years I've never seen so few people... but what did I expect? Marvin showed up and had the temerity to actually *sell* some things, whereas I don't think I turned ten dollars the whole day. Nick Oliviero dropped by bearing a most pleasant Xmas gift: a nice RX50 for my uVAX II. Thanx Nick! I, as fate would have it, found a very rare music synthesiser/sequencer combo, [an Oberheim OB-SX and DSX] and bought same... there went all my cash, so I packed up and left before 11:00... as many were doing. The first one in January promises to be a much better attended Affaire. At least the music stuff works.. I have it hooked up in the studio and it's just like 1978... but I'd sure look goofy in bell bottoms and colored glasses... so we'll leave it at that. A pleasant New Year to all of you whose calendar rolls over in the next few days.. I am planning a quiet Evening at Home..... vicarious revelry for me! Cheers and K3WL n3W y3Ar d00dZ! 2K RulEZ!!! wE ArE AlL El!Te... WaReZ 4 aLL.... if you can call a 25-year-old version of Kermit "warez"... ;) Cheerz John

26 years, 6 months

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OT?: Illegal Transmitters

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, since the technology's there to make a detonator out of one of these just as it's there to use a cell-phone to fire a device, I suppose they could be concerned, but the way this information is presented at the '2600' site is quite different from the way it's presented at the Ramsey site. We may NEVER know what really happened. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:45 PM Subject: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters > > Umm, I guess you didn't read Ramsey's web pages. > > http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/scstore/sitepages/hobby/fedpage2.htm > > -Dave McGuire > >On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: >>Does anybody really believe this unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of >>prattle? The key difference between this and normal "news" is that real >>stories don't have to mask the names of the participants. >> >>While it's possible, stupid as our government is, it's not likely that a >>legitimate source of legitimate news would report a legitimate story in this >>way, with oblique references to what should be in the lead, and masked >>references to individuals and businesses likely to sue. >> >>Dick >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:15 PM >>Subject: OT: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters >> >> >>>At 02:09 PM 12/27/99 -0800, Marvin wrote: >>>> >>>>While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at >>>>gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem >>>>collecting some computers. >>>> >>>>http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html >>>> >>>>For those of you who are html impaired, the subject concerns raids carried >>>>out on a number of small businesses making electronic kits including >>Ramsey >>>>Electronics and Super Circuits. The subject in question appears to be >>>>equipment that could be used for wiretapping. >>> >>> So what else is new? Gun owners have had to put with this kind of >>>harrasment and rediculous interpetation of the laws for years. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>>> >>>

26 years, 6 months

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Lamp panels (was Re: PRS01 paper tape)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > Those lamp panels (144 lamps IIRC) are fun. They're used on other DEC > > > peripherals as well -- the RK11-C can take one (where it displays most of > > > the registers, etc). > > Yes, of course. The input signals are all TTL level... and the panel is just > driver transistors and lamps. You could use (e.g) ULN2803 chips to drive > lamps... I probably have a schematic of the panel in the DX11 prints. OK... so fabrication isn't a big deal, but knowing which cable pins get named what is. I mean there's disk registers of various types, but just sticking a gross of bulbs on the end of a cable protruding from the backplane will result in some pretty interesting, but random lights. If your DX11 prints surface, cool. No need to go digging. I'm a long way off >from resurrecting the RK11-C. I have an RKV11-D that I'll use first, to scan and backup my tower of RK05 packs. I know I've got RT-11 v4 on RK and v5 on RL disks; it's just a matter of slapping together a system with RL drives, RK drives and getting an RL drive on my MicroVAX again for easy data transfer ($ BACKUP/PHYSICAL...) OTOH, I finally landed a DEQNA, but have no idea how I'd use it under a non-UNIX PDP-11 OS (like RT-11 or RSX), but that's a different topic for a different day. This is TTY month. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 6 months

2
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Help!!! I need a Shugart SA455 floppy drive

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I need a Shugart SA-455 drive to replace the one that died in my Z-100. Does anyone have one they can spare? Joe

26 years, 6 months

1
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Datasheet needed

by aek＠spies.com

"> Who can help me with a (copy of) a datasheet of the Burr-Brown > digtal to analog converter type DAC80-CBI-I and/or the DAC90BG? " www.spies.com/arcade/schematics

26 years, 6 months

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Lamp panels (was Re: PRS01 paper tape)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > Those lamp panels (144 lamps IIRC) are fun. They're used on other DEC > peripherals as well -- the RK11-C can take one (where it displays most of > the registers, etc). I've seen those mentioned in the appropriate handbooks. I even have an RK-11C that would be much easier to debug (not to mention more fun) with a panel of blinkenlights. Presumably, one could be fabricated with easier-to-find lamps than the DEC originals (at least, _I_ only have a handful of spares). -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 6 months

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OT: Happy Holidays

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> > Ah, yes, but I'm going to somebody else's house to drink _their_ > > fancy booze and eat their fancy food (sushi, yum!) next week. My > > party is *next* year. Maybe we'll show Stanley Kubrik's movie to > > get the party rolling. ;-) > > Which one ? > "Death Race 2000" this year, "2001 - A Space Odyssey" next year. ;-) Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 6 months

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OT: Happy Holidays

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

As we wind down to the end of the year, I wish everyone good health, good hunting, and good deals! --Chuck

26 years, 6 months

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PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (wasRe:Oscilloscopes)`)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

<snip> >> Also, what are the current licensing issues with RT11, RSX, and RSTS? A few >> list members have offered to help me read in all the different versions so I >> can post them on the Internet. > >Still very much licensed, I'm afraid. There is a bobbyist license that >applies to (I believe) Supnik's emulator _only_ for some versions of >these OS's, but there's no affordable license to run them on real hardare >or other hardware. > >-tony > > So what you are saying is I can post most versions of every OS and state that they may only be used on Supnik's emulator. I guess it will be up to the honest end-user. john http://www.pdp8.com/

26 years, 6 months

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FW: DECstation systems and parts for sale

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Found on Usenet, CC'd to both CLASSICCMP and the port-pmax section of Netbsd.org. If you want a cheap(?) DECStation, give this fellow a shout. Thanks much. Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:54:23 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: Super User <root(a)water.vramp.net> >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: DECstation systems and parts for sale >>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:54:23 GMT >>Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com >>Lines: 6 >>Message-ID: <s6f2tfeoh458(a)corp.supernews.com> >>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse(a)supernews.com >>X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970309; i386 FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE] >>Path: news1.jps.net!cyclone.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!remarQ70!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!water.vramp.net!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.dec:1313 >> >>We retired a small pile of DECstation machines and would like to find >>good homes for them. A complete list of items is at www.vramp.net/dec.htm. >>All prices very negotiable. >> >>Bob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

26 years, 6 months

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OT: Happy Holidays

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote: > >In a message dated 12/24/1999 2:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > > >> The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. > > > >Right on! > > Maybe so, but the party "starts" next weekend. :=) Ah, yes, but I'm going to somebody else's house to drink _their_ fancy booze and eat their fancy food (sushi, yum!) next week. My party is *next* year. Maybe we'll show Stanley Kubrik's movie to get the party rolling. ;-) -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 6 months

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IBM 360 and 370 control panels available

by jdykstra＠nortelnetworks.com

Data Sales in Savage, Minnesota has a number of 360 and 370 control panels available. During my search this morning, I found panels from several Model 30's, a Model 25, a Model 44 and a Model 65. They also have a number of 370 panels, although I can't quote models--those machines are after my time :-) Condition varies widely--email me for what I remember about a particular panel. Contact info: Jim Breckner, site manager, (612) 890-9047, <jim(a)lineserve.com>. Please mention my name if you contact them--I would like to go back and take some photos of other IBM gear they've got, and they're more likely to tolerate the inconvenience if I'm bringing them some business. Other than that, I have no relationship to these people. NOTE--These panels are from machines that have already been scrapped, many more than two decades ago. I too would have liked to see these machines in running condition, but given their size, power and air conditioning requirements, etc., I doubt that there would have been very many takers. Does anyone know of any intact and running System 360's? How about System 370's? ---- John Dykstra jdykstra(a)nortelnetworks.com Principal Software Architect voice: +1 651 415-1604 Nortel Networks fax: +1 612 932-8549

26 years, 6 months

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FW: VAXstation KVM switching

by baileyj＠whitlock.com

Hello, My name is John Bailey and I am an integtrator of data projection and display systems in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina. I noticed this board on a search for VAX info and thought you might be able to help with a problem I'm working on. I need to control several VAXstation 4000.60 machines with a single keyboard/mouse/monitor. The environment is a telecom network management center with limited space per operator. Do you have any suggestions or know of any hardware that would accomplish this? The regulars (Black Box, Cybex) are no help. If not, do you know if the machines will operate without a keyboard and mouse (once booted), or support multiple connects and disconnects of keyboard and mouse while operating. Any advice greatly appreciated, John B.

26 years, 6 months

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PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 26, 19:55, John B wrote: > DX-36X (looks to be a straight-8 to IBM 360 interface) More than likely. One of my friends has one complete DX-11 (Unibus-to IBM-channel interface, built from Flip Chips, in a fair-sized rack) and one incomplete, in pieces, for spares. They were in use between 11/34's and an Amdahl until about 4 or 5 years ago. One has LEDs, the other incandescent lamps. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 6 months

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PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:27 PM Subject: Re: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`) >> Another thing I did not know was that there are 5 different PDP-8e >> maintenance manual sets: Preliminary (3), Processor (3), Internal Options >> (3), External Options (3) and Lab-8/e (1). > >Interesting... > >I thought the PDP8/e maintenance manual was 3 volumes. Volume 1 was the >CPU (and core IIRC). Volume 2 was internal options (EAE, Memory >extension/timeshare, EPROM board, etc) . Volume 3 was external options >(disks/tapes/terminals/etc). And then a separate Lab 8/e manual for the >realtime I/O boards. > >Are you saying you have a 3-volume set for the CPU, another 3 volume set >for internal options, etc? If so, Wow!. The single volume CPU manual >contains an incredible amount of useful info, so a 3-volume set must be >wonderful. and... what version of the *standard* three volume set do you have? Do you have the 1.25" thick volume 3 or the 1/2" thick volume 3? Other volumes are "maintenance training manuals" (1,3), 2,3, and 1,2.. Seems DEC only intended certain manuals to go to the public [1,2,3]. I have 2 versions of each set with maintenance trainers to bring me a current running total of 5 sets of PDP-8/E maintenance guides. I have so many other weird manuals and options I am hoping you, Alison, or Megan have heard of them: A 1964 PDP-8P (all transistor).. I have prints. DeCastro designed it. Could be the straight-8 but I doubt it. DX-36X (looks to be a straight-8 to IBM 360 interface) RSX-11B, RSX11-C ..before RSX-11D was released. Here's a real weird one (I'll put up pictures soon): A TU56 that does not look like a TU56.. No "unit number switch". Only On/Off, -> , <- ,nothing else. Two drives. Standard DECtape, NO CARDS inside. The entire drive electronics are on an external backplane. NO, it doesn't look like a TU-55 either. Most useful stuff to me so far are the Microfiche and Internal Tech Notes for my 8/S. The tech notes identify a few hundred different common problems with the 8/s and how to fix them... many from internal DEC engineers. I also have these for the 8,8/i, and 8/l. I wonder if Dag only got hardware? I am certainly receiving a lot of internal stuff. Also, what are the current licensing issues with RT11, RSX, and RSTS? A few list members have offered to help me read in all the different versions so I can post them on the Internet. john http://www.pdp8.com/ > >-tony >

26 years, 6 months

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HP guru needed!

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

I saw an HP mini at a local warehouse.... Here is what I saw/what I have been told: It is an HP-2 (is there such a thing)? It has a high speed paper tape unit on it. It has a disk interface box (about 5" high). I have not seen the CPU as it was not in a position to see it's front panel. I tried a search but get 5000 HP-2 laserjet webpages. Any help/ideas/pictures would be appreciated. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 9:03 PM Subject: Re: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (wasRe:Oscilloscopes)`) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:27 PM >Subject: Re: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was >Re:Oscilloscopes)`) > > >>> Another thing I did not know was that there are 5 different PDP-8e >>> maintenance manual sets: Preliminary (3), Processor (3), Internal Options >>> (3), External Options (3) and Lab-8/e (1). >> >>Interesting... >> >>I thought the PDP8/e maintenance manual was 3 volumes. Volume 1 was the >>CPU (and core IIRC). Volume 2 was internal options (EAE, Memory >>extension/timeshare, EPROM board, etc) . Volume 3 was external options >>(disks/tapes/terminals/etc). And then a separate Lab 8/e manual for the >>realtime I/O boards. >> >>Are you saying you have a 3-volume set for the CPU, another 3 volume set >>for internal options, etc? If so, Wow!. The single volume CPU manual >>contains an incredible amount of useful info, so a 3-volume set must be >>wonderful. > > >and... what version of the *standard* three volume set do you have? Do you >have the 1.25" thick volume 3 or the 1/2" thick volume 3? Other volumes are >"maintenance training manuals" (1,3), 2,3, and 1,2.. Seems DEC only intended >certain manuals to go to the public [1,2,3]. I have 2 versions of each set >with maintenance trainers to bring me a current running total of 5 sets of >PDP-8/E maintenance guides. > >I have so many other weird manuals and options I am hoping you, Alison, or >Megan have heard of them: > >A 1964 PDP-8P (all transistor).. I have prints. DeCastro designed it. Could >be the straight-8 but I doubt it. >DX-36X (looks to be a straight-8 to IBM 360 interface) >RSX-11B, RSX11-C ..before RSX-11D was released. >Here's a real weird one (I'll put up pictures soon): A TU56 that does not >look like a TU56.. No "unit number switch". Only On/Off, -> , <- ,nothing >else. Two drives. Standard DECtape, NO CARDS inside. The entire drive >electronics are on an external backplane. NO, it doesn't look like a TU-55 >either. > >Most useful stuff to me so far are the Microfiche and Internal Tech Notes >for my 8/S. The tech notes identify a few hundred different common problems >with the 8/s and how to fix them... many from internal DEC engineers. I also >have these for the 8,8/i, and 8/l. > >I wonder if Dag only got hardware? I am certainly receiving a lot of >internal stuff. > >Also, what are the current licensing issues with RT11, RSX, and RSTS? A few >list members have offered to help me read in all the different versions so I >can post them on the Internet. > > > >john > >http://www.pdp8.com/ > > > > > >> >>-tony >> > >

26 years, 6 months

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PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)`)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:00 AM Subject: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)` >--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: >> Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > <snip> I still have this pr/s01 >20mA portable papertape reader, but I still know nothing about it, especially >baud rate. I haven't yet hauled a 'scope out to the place the -8's are at. >That's one of the next steps. > >-ethan Now that I have microfiche/paper schematics,maintenance manuals, etc.. to every DEC board/device ever made I actually found all the manuals to your PRS01 paper tape reader.. I fact, I have a strong feeling I will be getting a few. Please post back the exact model number as that will tell me the baud rate. They made two models: "A" version which is 20mA 300 baud. and a "B" version which is 20mA 2400 baud. I can post pinouts for the group if needed once I get the full model number. OT: so far I found two more PDP-16s, RSX-11B,C - papertape??, (I thought the first version was "D"), and about a million other things I won't even try to list right now. I have also learned the art of stacking DEC handbooks 50 high... Another thing I did not know was that there are 5 different PDP-8e maintenance manual sets: Preliminary (3), Processor (3), Internal Options (3), External Options (3) and Lab-8/e (1). Finally, found a pile more of PDP-1 software including Spacewars (with both patches) and OPSYS :-) john http://www.pdp8.com/

26 years, 6 months

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PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)`)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>I still have this pr/s01 >>20mA portable papertape reader, but I still know nothing about it, >>especially >>baud rate. I haven't yet hauled a 'scope out to the place the -8's are at. >>That's one of the next steps. >They made two models: "A" version which is 20mA 300 baud. and a "B" version >which is 20mA 2400 baud. I can post pinouts for the group if needed once I >get the full model number. Mine started out life as the 300 baud version, but was "field modified" to 2400 baud by changing some of the timing capacitors. (No crystals here, the baud rate is set by a capacitor and tweaked with a variable resistor.) It was also "field modified" to RS-232 by adding a small circuit board to the 0.1"-pitch header inside. (That was done by me!) The circuitry inside is really quite simple, just plain old TTL and some optocouplers for the 20mA interface. What *I* like about the PR/S01 is: 1. Very portable, down to the carrying handle on the end :-). 2. It doesn't use a bulb, but instead a small array of infrared LED's for scanning. For those who've had to deal with loose bulb connections or dead bulbs while in the field, this is a *real* godsend. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 6 months

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PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)`)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:00 AM > I still have this pr/s01, 20mA portable papertape reader > Now that I have microfiche/paper schematics,maintenance manuals, etc.. to > every DEC board/device ever made I actually found all the manuals to your > PRS01 paper tape reader.. I fact, I have a strong feeling I will be getting > a few. Please post back the exact model number as that will tell me the baud > rate. Will do. > They made two models: "A" version which is 20mA 300 baud. and a "B" version > which is 20mA 2400 baud. I can post pinouts for the group if needed once I > get the full model number. Great. One odd thing about the prs01 is that the outermost pin on one of the two connectors is in use. It is a no-connect to either the terminal or the interface card (which uses the middle six pins out of eight, IIRC). Thanks, John. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 6 months

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Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Computer with the worst pitchman: Bill Cosby. (TI-99/4A) >Again, Atari. Remember all those Alan Alda commercials in the 80's? As long as we're talking about desktop Micros, why not Dick Cavett and his pitches for the Apple ][ ? And then there are the mid-80's Radio Shack ads featuring Bill Gates... Tim.

26 years, 6 months

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Help with CQD 220A/TM

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I have the manual here. I will try to remember to scan the appropriate pages this weekend and will forward the URL. Don't be bashful to remind me if I forget. Is there anything in besides the switch settings you would like? Dan -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Fine <jhfine(a)idirect.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 8:32 PM Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM >Does anyone know or know where I can find the Dip >switch settings for this host adapter? I have a friend who >needs some help. The last time he tried: >http://www.cmd.com/ >he was able to get the Dip switch settings, but now they seem >to restrict the site to specific users. Can anyone help?

26 years, 6 months

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Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's.

by netsurfer_x1＠hotmail.com

Here is a varied list of computers (and computer-related things) that were either famous or infamous for various reasons First, the infamous ones Computer with the worst built in hard drive: the ICT hard drive in the early models of the IBM-AT. Computer with the worst system architecture: TI-99/4A. (doubly interpreted BASIC? c'mon TI!) Computer with the worst keyboard: (tie) Sinclair ZX-81/Timex Sinclair 1000 & IBM PC Jr. Computer with the worst pitchman: Bill Cosby. (TI-99/4A) Computer with the most limitations: Timex Sinclair 1000/Sinclair ZX-81. Slowest computer: COM-X 35. Computer with the slowest disk drive: Commodore 64(C). Heaviest laptop computer: Apple Macintosh Portable. Most infamous computer by price: Apple Lisa. And now the famous ones Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. Computer with the best speech synthesizer: TI-99/4A. Most famous "vaporware" computer: Xerox Alto. Computer with the best sound hardware: (tie) TI-99/4A & Commodore 64(C). Computer with the coolest pitchman: William Shatner. (VIC-20) Computer with the coolest case design: TI-99/4A. (The case reminds me of a Delorean. Remember those?) Computer with the best introductory commercial: Apple Macintosh. ("On January 24, Apple will introduce Macintosh. And you will see why 1984 won't be like "1984"".) This is all that I can think of. If you can add some more categories or correct some of the entries, please do so! After all, the above entries are only based on opinion (namely my own). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 6 months

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Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>Computer with the best speech synthesizer: TI-99/4A. > Dunno 'bout that... how about the Digitalker as used on some S-100 systems? You'll note that his definition of "computer" didn't include S-100 systems (probably because they don't have integral video...). But if we have to talk about the "best" speech synthesizer of the day, I'd vote for the original DECtalk (often confused with a VT240 base!) These are still in continuing commercial use at the far end of those applications where you dial in to check your bank balance, etc. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 6 months

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Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Here is a varied list of computers (and computer-related things) that were >either famous or infamous for various reasons (Bunch of IBM PC - TI-99/4 - Timex/Sinclair - Apple - Commodore - RS stuff deleted for brevity). Replace "computer" with "desktop microcomputer with keyboard and video display" and I'll agree that your list makes sense. (Though the Alto doesn't quite fit that category.) Unfortunately your list completely neglects the non-desktop micros, especially those without integral video, minis, and mainframes... Tim.

26 years, 6 months

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RC 702

by rachael_＠gmx.net

Hi I have just got a old Danish build computer from 1979, it was build by Regne Centralen. I got it including a RC 722 keyboard and a RC 752 monitor. It`s based on a Z80a with 64 Kb and two fullsize 5 1/4" floppy drives build by YE in Japan. I did not get any discs with it and no one seems to remember it here in Denmark, so I was hoping that somehow some of this machines has made it outside Denmark, so if anyone knows something about this machine please step foreward. Regrads Jacob Dahl Pind

26 years, 6 months

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Time is relative

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/25/1999 1:25:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, foxvideo(a)wincom.net writes: > Now what I would like some of you scientific types to explain to me is how > folks living in the years 'BC' designated them. They couldn't say "this > year is 45 BC'" because they didn't know when it was going to happen. Time is relative. The Egyptians had their own calendar, it would be 5XXX now. I rather like the Mayan interlocking circles. Their calendar was more accurate than ours. It is also interesting that it had a start time that preceded their own culture. I suspect that for most of humanity that the stars and the night sky has held a far greater position in ones life than now. We used to live a lot closer to earth's cycles. The seasons and passing of years generate their own calendar. We, in Oregon, are going through a long term cycle of heavier rainfall, more than 18 years long. People seem to forget this is a 'cycle' in the dry years. I wonder what the native American cultures called "EL Nino"? I am sure it was a segment of their calendar. Mediterranean metalsmiths(in Rhodes, 86BC) built a differential geared calculator for calculating the positions of the sun and moon, with eclipses, multiple years and more. Here is a URL which may have appeared on this list before. http://www.math.utsa.edu/ecz/ak.html <A HREF="http://www.math.utsa.edu/ecz/ak.html">Gears from the Greeks</A> I hope this qualifies as "on topic" Many cultures instituted their own calendars. Western civilization has instituted the current calendar, mostly for commercial purposes. Since most people have adopted it, the current calendar would be hard to change. This is the same problem with the millennium change. I like the British Observatory's statement. The idea of a year of celebration sounds like a lot of fun, I hope to do my share. Paxton

26 years, 6 months

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OT: Happy Holidays

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/24/1999 2:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. Right on! Glen 0/0

26 years, 6 months

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