test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

On 6/21/20 10:41 AM, Jon Elson wrote: > On 06/20/2020 09:41 PM, Charles wrote: >> On 6/20/20 8:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote: >>> >>>> I confirmed the bad one by removing the piggyback and the failure >>>> returned. Now I need to desolder the bad one without ruining the >>>> board. I may just cut the leads off close to the bad chip, and >>>> solder the replacement to the stumps. (Normally I remove the legs >>>> and install a machine-pin DIP socket). Or just solder the piggyback >>>> and leave it there... thoughts? >>>> >>> Cut the leads close to the body.? Apply a soldering iron to each >>> lead, and pull the lead out with tweezers, >>> simultaneously heating and pulling.? This is very gentle to the >>> board, just doing one at a time.? Then, you can vacuum out the holes >>> and install a new chip or socket. >>> >>> I've done this many times, and never wrecked a board. >>> >>> Jon >>> >> That's how I do it... the vacuuming is the problem. Someday I need to >> get a good vacuum desoldering station. Right now I just have a >> spring-loaded solder sucker (which I can do a pretty decent job with >> on most boards). But this high-density layout (2 traces between DIP >> pads) I'm a bit wary of. >> > Just be gentle, and you should be able to do it.? Also, in some cases, > you might heat from the opposite side from the solder sucker.? That > way, you can keep the soldering iron on the pad until you have > triggered the sucker.? But, yes, the hollow soldering iron with > powered vacuum is amazing the first time you try it.? I got one at an > auction years ago, it is much better than the regular iron and > plunger-sucker. > > Jon The small company I first worked for had a Pace unit. I remember not being impressed with it - frequent clogs, pads lifting, and not getting all the solder out, no matter how we set things. Still beat solder-wick though! I got it done, but pin 16 (which connects directly to the internal-layer ground plane) was a bear. From the feel of it and the heat required, the draftsman didn't bother to make pad reliefs. Anyway it's now socketed, so of course it will never fail again! I also made a small jumper on a 15-pin D-sub to connect Monitor Present L to ground, so that annoying "Monitor Error 9" message stops ;) On to the next project!

5 years, 10 months

Imsai and others in Montgomery, AL

by sales＠elecplus.com

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/960320167759670/ Guy is cleaning out his shed because he is moving. Not affiliated with seller, etc. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

5 years, 10 months

LK201 emulation

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

Gentlepeople, I've been having problems with broken LK201s, so as a workaround I created an adapter that connects to a standard PC USB keyboard and makes it look like an LK201. It's based on an Arduino (specifically, Adafruit Trinket M0, an amazingly tiny yet powerful small microprocessor). It's working at this point, though it needs a few small software tweaks to make it complete. I'm going to turn my breadboard into something slightly more polished. Question to the list: is this something that would be of interest to others? If yes, I can make the design available. Perhaps the PCB layout and parts list. I don't think I want to get into building units for others, though. paul

5 years, 10 months

New subscribers?

by ccth6600＠gmail.com

Are new subscribers to cctalk still accepted? My subscription request was left unanswered. With all the talk about the future of this list I wonder if I came too late. Thanks Tom Hunter

5 years, 10 months

Malfunctioning VT240 - help please

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

> On 06/11/2020 02:29 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > >/If that would be the case I think the system would fail />/quite soon rather than on test 5. A guess is that this is />/a memory problem. / That was a good guess, everyone ;) I got some new 4116's and piggybacked (dry, no solder) two of them atop my suspects at E3 & E4. Didn't fix it. Of course :/ In the meantime I've acquired a nice HP 1630G logic analyzer complete with pods and cables. Setting it up was going to take quite a while since I'm not familiar with this model. So I decided to try a simple brute-force approach before the analyzer. I piggybacked another 4116 onto each soldered-in 4116, one at a time. Actually easy to do since with the leads properly formed, I didn't even have to solder it in place, just turn off the power and move it to the next chip. On the 16th, the last one of course, the terminal booted normally and works again. :) I confirmed the bad one by removing the piggyback and the failure returned. Now I need to desolder the bad one without ruining the board. I may just cut the leads off close to the bad chip, and solder the replacement to the stumps. (Normally I remove the legs and install a machine-pin DIP socket). Or just solder the piggyback and leave it there... thoughts?

5 years, 10 months

Ancient transistor ?computer board (Peter Van Peborgh)

by peter＠vanpeborgh.eu

Guys, I now know it is an early CDC board. IT had C*NT*OLDATA on the reverse - how I missed that must be attributed to old age. (Thanks Doug) Here are shots of the back: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UPozyBB3zp7XYcP79 Any idea what the row of hole opposite the contacts were? Testing points? But then why holes and not short pillars? Some are labelled on both sides. Continuing in hope, peter

5 years, 10 months

Future of cctalk/cctech

by boris＠summitclinic.com

Agree that current mailing list format is best as simple, low bandwidth and can always post links to images or other large files. I still use Eudora as my email client and have text only emails. Seems to perplex a lot of people I deal with when I can't read their emails, but it seems somewhat wastefull to use 1-2 Mb to send a message that only needs 200 bytes at most (once one strips off all zero-information fluff from the email). Run my own mailserver as well so can email myself massive attachments when email is only way of getting data off a remote machine. Images take up a lot of space and are best dealt with via links. I've run my own webserver/ftpserver since 1999 and find that's the easiest way of sharing large files with people. While it's nice having high resolution photos like those that Samsung phones creat, they're in the 3-5 Mb size range. If I need to put a lot of photos on a web page, I'll use the free Photo Studio program (written by John Hawkins) which creates a web page with a series of thumbnails with full image available by clicking on thumbnail and can set size of thumbnail image. Rather old, but works fine for simple web pages where all one wants to do is serve up a set of images. Remember 15 years ago that online documentation was sparse but have found most DEC manuals are online and C64 stuff a lot easier to find than it used to be. Being rather paranoid, I've downloaded manuals for all machines I have and keep a duplicate copy of everything. Not sure how many people are on cctalk/cctech, but keeping everything text only would be best way of minimizing bandwidth for whoever hosts it, Boris Gimbarzevsky >On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 3:31 PM Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk < >cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Sure, there's always `uuencode' when you do need to post that non-text > > piece (which I guess will keep the eyes of Luddites away from it too). > > > >Or an http, https, ftp, or gopher url to somewhere else hosting the image. > >Pat

5 years, 10 months

Someone's confused

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Love the title on this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/184317705963 eBait auction: "16K Sense Inhibit Board .. VAX 6000, VAX-11/730". Yeah, core on a VAX! And such a deal, a mere US$400! Noel

5 years, 10 months

Fixing an RK8E ....

by bob＠jfcl.com

It appears that my RK8E has a problem - it fails the diskless control test with .R DHRKAE.DG SR= 0000 COMMAND REGISTER ERROR PC:1160 GD:0000 CM:0001 DHRKAE FAILED PC:6726 AC:0000 MQ:7777 FL:0000 WAITING Ok, maybe a bad bit in the command register so I'll check it out. But then it dawns on me - how do you work on this thing? It's three boards connected with "over the top" connectors - you can't use a module extender on it. Worse, the M7105 Major Registers board is the middle one of the stack! Is there some secret to working on this thing? Has anybody fixed one? Any suggestions? I hadn't thought about it before, but the KK8E CPU would have the same problem. Fingers crossed that one never dies... Bob

5 years, 10 months

Hercules SDLC/BSC interfacing project - want 3174-x1R

by mattislind＠gmail.com

Hello! I have been working on interfacing the Hercules emulator with various real terminals for some time. First project was an Alfaskop terminal cluster which I connected using a small STM32 controller handling BSC. Next is an Informer 213, portable 3178/3174 compatible terminal. It it using SDLC. A friend has a 3178 and 3279 which would interesting to work with. A 3174-51R/-61R/-81R/-91R would be very suitable for this. It would be very nice to test my BSC and SDLC code with the real IBM stuff. I have put my project here: https://github.com/MattisLind/alfaskop_emu/tree/master/Utils <https://github.com/MattisLind/alfaskop_emu/tree/master/Utils> Still very much Work In Progress. If anyone has a type 1 3174 that does BSC and SDLC so I could test my stuff I would be very interested. No need for fancy features like TCP/IP and/or token ring. I of course pay shipping. But can throw in various DEC QBUS stuff as a trade. /Mattis

5 years, 10 months

CSPI SC-3XL and SC-4XL documentation?

by cmhanson＠eschatologist.net

I've just come into a couple of CSPI VME cards, an SC-3XL and an SC-4XL (both with attached memory), and I was wondering if anyone has documentation. They're based on the Intel i860 and intended for VME-based array processors. -- Chris

5 years, 10 months

New drive for my 11/83....

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

Picked up a CDC 94166 ESDI disk on Ebay last week, arrived and sure enough it works. No errors either, so I can now give my 30+ year old Fujitsu 2322 a rest and load up rsx11m+ instead of 11/m 4.2 After formatting it on the MTI controller (MQD13) I set the first partition to 30mb and loaded up my RT11 5.7 backup from the TK50 onto it with no issues. Productive. If I can find my DEQNA and an AUI to wireless adapter I could get this thing up on the net.....

5 years, 10 months

Future of cctalk/cctech

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Use modern email program that sees expanded char. Sets and graphics.... it is a brand new world !??? I love old hardware to look at but if communicating? I like? the ability to see graphical? things...? and I think tell majority of people like? images of things......?? Ed# On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 Fred Cisin via cctalk <cisin at xenosoft.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, ED SHARPE @ AOHell.com via cctalk wrote: > These 2 have my vote as well.... > I do not know, anyone using a text only mail reader anymore! > >> The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on attachments. >> Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. I read this list on PINE, on a shell account at my ISP. In this group, I doubt that I am the only one. Can we restrict to TEXT emails? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred? ? ??? ??? cisin at xenosoft.com

5 years, 10 months

PLATO V Terminal

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning > airfight and any number of other multi-user games -- a thing made > popular by PLATO and possibly originated there. What was the date on that? Multi-player MazeWar on the Imlacs/ITS at MIT was running before 1976 (I played it about then), but I don't recall exactly when it first ran (before my time). Noel

5 years, 10 months

E-Mail Formats RE: Future of cctalk/cctech

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Peter Coghlan > via cctalk > Sent: 18 June 2020 08:22 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Future of cctalk/cctech > > ED SHARPE wrote: > > Use modern email program that sees expanded char. Sets and > > graphics.... it is a brand new world ! I love old hardware to look > > at but if communicating I like the ability to see graphical > > things... and I think tell majority of people like images of > > things...... Ed# > > > Just beware. Some environments, especially old EBCDIC ones put different currency symbols on the same code points So:- I wrote this as one dollar => $1.00 This as one pound => $1 And this as one euro => ?1 Lastly one cent => ?1 I expect you all get that as sent except for perhaps the Euro which didn't exist when Peters VAX was built.... ... but on an old UK EBCDIC mainframe Dollar becomes Pound and Cent becomes dollar. This was a real pain as a UK user of Bitnet. Dave > Let me get this straight. If I stop using VMS MAIL for this list and use one of > these new fangled things instead, I too will be able to make high quality > postings to the list, just like this one??? > > Regards, > Peter Coghlan > > > > > On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 Fred Cisin via cctalk <cisin at xenosoft.com; > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, ED SHARPE @ AOHell.com via cctalk wrote: > > > These 2 have my vote as well.... > > > I do not know, anyone using a text only mail reader anymore! > > > > > >> The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on > attachments. > > >> Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. > > > > I read this list on PINE, on a shell account at my ISP. > > > > In this group, I doubt that I am the only one. > > > > > > Can we restrict to TEXT emails? > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com > >

5 years, 10 months

Farewell Etaoin Shrdlu

by lproven＠gmail.com

https://archive.org/details/FarewellEtaoinShrdlu 28min documentary on the last ever edition of the NY Times to be printed using hot metal -- before they switched to what are now a quite choice assortment of late-'70s minicomputers. I think I spotted a PDP, a Data General and some IBM device, but I am no expert in this era. As a veteran reader of Fredric Brown, especially "the Enchanted Linotype", I have been using ETAOIN SHRDLU to win at Hangman for many years... but I'd never seen one working before. It all still seems like magic to me. I've worked in the magazine industry so I should know more about this stuff, but I never worked at the repro end of things... -- Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

5 years, 10 months

: Unknown Intel blinkenlight panel circa 1973

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Camiel Vanderhoeven > I know Intel made the in-4011 for the PDP-11, but I never saw a picture > of it. Was it UNIBUS memory, or what? It doesn't seem to be in that table of early Intel products. BTW, speaking of Intel PDP-11 memory, I have this: http://gunkies.org/wiki/File:IN-1611.jpg QBUS Intel memory board; hven't tried to get it running, though. Noel

5 years, 10 months

Future of classiccmp

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Al wrote: >With Jay retiring, what are the hosting plans for these mailing lists? Well at least for me, there's more to it than that ? I retired from general work on 4/30/20. My consulting firm is going to be kept open on paper for a few years at least but I doubt I will be transacting much business through it. I guess if someone comes by with a short project that I find interesting, I may do it through that company but mostly it's staying open to handle a few germane expenses. All staff and offices are gone and regular payrolls ended 4/30. That leaves the hosting company for me to determine scope/future. Since that company (as long as you are proactive with admin tasks) takes virtually zero work and allows me to have a grossly oversized but paid for full-on high availability virtualization architecture, I was going to keep it going during retirement with just a few very low maintenance customers that cover the costs. I basically can then host any personal/hobby related sites for myself and friends at literally zero cost. In this company I do have one business partner, and that relationship has become quite difficult lately. So much so, that I'm ready to just turn it off and walk away. I'm sorry, but I have reached the point in my life where that stress outweighs the benefits. This infrastructure is of course where I've hosted not only the classiccmp mailing list, but a fair chunk of other classic computing related websites and services at zero cost to their respective owners. Throw in to the mix that for whatever reason - while I have dutifully taken care of this list and a lot of other related websites for probably 15+ years or more - I honestly don't feel that I am doing a good job of it's care & feeding lately. I think it's time for fresh eyes and attitudes to carry it forward. I hope no one begrudges me for after decades finally saying "it's time". I have enjoyed being of service. First and foremost, there is no worry about future hosting plans for above content. I'm not going to just turn it off one day - the grizzled veterans here that know me well know that I would not let that happen. There is no sense of immediate urgency nor any possibility of data just disappearing. That being said, I do wish to move steadily forward with those plans. Second, I do not wish to pass this off to someone who "has a server in their basement" or has spare space on a vps. While I appreciate these offers and the desire to help, I'm not sure you have full knowledge of what all is here. Putting it on a "PC in your basement" is not the environment this stuff requires. At the very least, asymmetric bandwidth (what most people have in their homes) is a non-starter. Sneaking it on to your company infrastructure isn't good either, as there is almost always a builtin "need to move this stuff soon" disruption in store. I've already been working with folks in this community to figure out what to offload, where, how, etc. That work will continue, and I suspect that each separate migration will go off transparently with little or no outward signs of change. Also, I am definitely not leaving the hobby; I just look forward to participating as an end-user instead of host. Just as a heads up at the same time I am looking to thin my herd; not because I've lost interest but because I want to gain focus. That means most likely that I will be moving out a lot of choice DEC, Data General, Heathkit, and related items. I will post separately on that topic, but at the least I am going to keep/focus on HP and a couple others. Will post more info once I have it ? Best, J

5 years, 10 months

Origin of 3-D printing (again)

by sieler＠allegro.com

Hi, Back in 2017, I posted something about seeing a possible first-ever reference to the idea of 3-D printing in a 1951 issue of Galaxy Science Fiction magazine. I stumbled over an even earlier one tonight... The September, 1941, issue of Astounding Science Fiction magazine has a story called "Elsewhere" by Caleb Saunders (a pseudonym of Robert A. Heinlein). On page 118 we see: [They used] a single general type of machine to manufacture almost anything. They fed into it a plan which Igor called, for want of a better term, the blueprints. It was, in fact, a careful scale model of the device to be manufactured; the machine retooled itself and produced the artifact. A three-dimensional pantograph, Igor called the machine, vaguely and inaccurately. One of them was, at that moment, molding the bodies of fighting planes out. of plastic, all in one piece and in one operation. Stan

5 years, 10 months

PLATO V Terminal

by ccth6600＠gmail.com

I have been "hunting" for a PLATO V terminal for some time. It was made by Regency - Carroll. If there is such a terminal gathering dust in a shed or garage and the owner would like to find a good home for it then please let me know. I have successfully restored a Control Data Corp IST-3 terminal and 721 Viking terminal and have the skills, equipment and passion to restore the terminal to its former beauty and functionality. Tom Hunter

5 years, 10 months

Future of cctalk/cctech

by couryhouse＠aol.com

These 2 have my vote as well.... I do not know, anyone using a text only mail reader anymore! > The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on attachments. > > Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 Rob Jarratt via cctalk <rob at jarratt.me.uk; robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Al Kossow via > cctalk > Sent: 17 June 2020 13:55 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Future of cctalk/cctech > > > > > I wonder what you don't like about "groups.io" Its pretty much a pure mailing > list? > > Like all of the webby time-wasters, they don't have easy to mirror zipped > archives, because they want to to spend time hovering around clicking on their > sites. > > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > > > The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on attachments. > > Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well. I would agree with both of those too. Rob

5 years, 10 months

Amiga Vendors?

by healyzh＠avanthar.com

I found AmigaKit.com in the UK, are there any Amiga vendors left in the US? I need to order some parts, and not only do I not remember who I used to use in the US, I assume they?re gone. Zane

5 years, 10 months

Ancient transistor ?computer board (Peter Van Peborgh)

by peter＠vanpeborgh.eu

Sorry guys about the unusable tera-URLs. To reiterate, I have acquired this board and have trouble assigning it to a particular computer manufacturer and type: Try this for the photos: https://tinyurl.com/ydxnzh9g and https://tinyurl.com/yb6z3utv Smells of (early) 1960s transistorized. No helpful marking apart from * "GATE JJ01" on SIDE A. (components). * "C NT OL DATA" on side B (solder traces). Big transistors are Motorola "180376008". Also, any ideas what the "246 636 B" boxes are, they have four legs? Can any of you of mature years suggest anything? Many thanks, ( praise be to TinyURL), peter

5 years, 10 months

Future of cctalk/cctech

by couryhouse＠aol.com

5 years, 10 months

Was: PDP-8/A transformer hum Is: VXT-2000 stuff.

by joezatarski＠gmail.com

> > > > On 6/9/2020 11:51 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:04 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk >> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> For the VXT-2000 with an H7109-B the rated voltage and current values >> are printed right on the power supply label: >> >> +5.1V, 7.81A >> +12.1V, 0.62A >> -12.1V, 0.46A >> -9V, 0.2A >> >> Fixed width character pinout diagram: >> >> +=================+ >> -9V | Yellow | Orange | +12.1V >> +--------+--------+ >> ??? | White | Black | Gnd >> +--------+--------+ >> +5.1V | Red | Blue | -12.1V >> +--------+--------+ >> +5.1V | Red | Black | Gnd >> +--------+--------+ >> Gnd | Black | Black | Gnd >> +=================+ >> >> The mystery is the White wire. The power supply label only lists 4 >> output voltages. The White wire appears to be routed to the Ethernet >> daughter board. The measured voltage appears that it might be floating >> slightly negative, somewhere around -1.5V when the Ethernet daughter >> board is installed and around -5V when it is removed. Maybe it is a >> high impedance earth ground connection? It appears to be connected to >> the shield of the Ethernet BNC, which measures around 1M-Ohm to the >> chassis ground when the power supply is disconnected from the main >> board, and around 0.75M-Ohm when the power supply is connected. >> > As long as we are talking VXT-2000, I have this on file, figure it would > be useful for future googling of the list if > this were here as well.? May be a repeat of info from an earlier post, > or maybe elsewhere. > > I didn't save the source of the info, but looks like someone named Matt > Millman did it. > > The setup is as follows: HP Envy laptop running MOP boot daemon, > connected to Lantronix LTX-C twisted pair > ethernet to AUI converter (not the same as a twisted pair MAU). This is > then connected to a cabletron coax > MAU with a 10BASE5 vampire tap. The coax runs over to another MAU, which > is connected via an AUI cable to > my VXT2000. I didn't think of it, but it would have been nice to have a > real DEC MAU on the VXT2000, I've > got several DEC h4000's I could have used. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5T2GlAN2N4 > > http://tech.mattmillman.com/projects/10base5/ The first link is mine actually. (Hi, I'm Joe from Joe's Vax Repair and More). I have a VXT-2000 and have had it setup and booting on a few occasions. I also happened into some 10BASE5 equipment a few years back and the VXT2000 was one of the only AUI devices I had at the time. I'm not Matt Millman, but I did reference that site to find the existence of the Lantronix LTX-C and similar devices. Now that I have more AUI gear, I plan to put different gear on the 3-node AUI segment (cisco 2511 router, media converter to 10BASE2, VAXStation 3200) and move the other 10Mb equipment to a 10BASE2 segment. The whole mess will be joined to the main network via T1 on a Kentrox CSU/DSU on the 2511. You can boot the VXT2000 using MOP or BOOTP and TFTP actually. MOP was the first thing I managed to get working, but BOOTP and TFTP worked equally well once I had it set up correctly. Unfortunately my bootptab file is on a roommate's MicroVAX II... Anyway, see the links section here for the software: https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/DEC_VXT2000 There's also theoretically OpenBSD and NetBSD support for the VXT2000, but in my experience the netboot stuff is pretty broken on VAX for whatever reason. There's at least one bug for the SGEC ethernet chip driver, and I could only get older versions of the network boot mop file to load. Of course, the older versions wouldn't support the newer kernel format, which apparently changed at some point. Or maybe I'm just doing something wrong. If the machine in question gets repaired, feel free to contact me with any questions. If you're familiar with netbooting VAX systems, it's not too hard to figure out though. I'll add that the note about the 9V supply being isolated sounds reasonable. It could be used as the supply for the built-in 10BASE2 MAU on some units. I can't confirm as my unit has 10BASET instead which has no requirement for an isolated supply.

5 years, 10 months

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test-drb