test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by ccth6600＠gmail.com

As there is no real cctalk traffic other than test messages I thought I post something a bit more interesting. Here is a short video of my fully restored DEC H500 Computer Lab with an 8-bit counter implementation including reset: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57xU3Xqnqx4 Enjoy Tom Hunter P.S. Is there some problem with the mailing list? The few "non-test" messages I get are often out of context.

4 years

Found SYSTEM DOCUMENTATION FOR ALUMINUM COMPANY OF AMERICA WARRICK WORKS DATANET -30 REALTIME DATA ACCUMULATOR AND DISTRIBUTOR ... AUG 7 1964

by couryhouse＠aol.com

SYSTEM DOCUMENTATION FOR ALUMINUM COMPANY OF AMERICA WARRICK WORKS DATANET -30 REALTIME DATA ACCUMULATOR AND DISTRIBUTOR ... AUG 7 1964 Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

4 years

Digitronics P135-20 Paper Tape Punch

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

I have the mechanism for a Digitronics P135-20 Paper Tape Punch. It turns out that Surplus Sales currently has one of these for sale; see item "(EQP) P135-20/35". It is accompanied by a three-page snippet of a much longer manual for this punch. See: https://www.surplussales.com/equipment/pdf/eqp-p135-20-35.pdf That's the only documentation that I've been able to find :-{. I'd very much like to find/acquire the remainder of this manual, or other relevant documentation. Can anyone help me? Thank you, paul

4 years

testing

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Test test

4 years

RT-11 Kermit to/from a raw device?

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

Is there a way to do this? Or perhaps a driver in RT-11 that I could point to an entire drive? If not, maybe I could write one with some community guidance? Would be a splendid way to write real media, or in my case, read the hundreds of 8" floppies I have sitting on the shelf here for archive. thx jake

4 years

PDT-11 Virtual Terminal Monitor v1.07

by lee.gleason＠comcast.net

> and tried looping back pin 2 to pin 3 >on each serial + modem port and typing some characters, but nothing shows >up in vterm. ? PDT-11/150 terminal and printer ports ports all require a high on pin 20, DTR, before they can send characters.? I've never used the modem port on my PDT's but I suspect it requires the typical, pins 6, 8, and 20 wired together. Maybe you need to pull some of these pins high to loop around? -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.gleason at comcast.net

4 years

Muldivo Digiputer 1968

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

Spotted on ebay - No involvement in the sale - just tagging in case any one on the list has interest. "Muldivo Digiputer 1968 - Imperial Dialog: IBM Model B" https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203849003806

4 years

While on the subject of cabinets...

by chrise＠pobox.com

On Tuesday (03/01/2022 at 04:36PM -0800), Marc Howard via cctech wrote: > I've got a PDP 11/34 I've never opened up. It's mounted in a H9642 > cabinet. I can't get the bloody thing to extend on the chassis track > slides. > > Is there a catch or lock screw on this unit? Mine (and we may be learning, is not be a proper configuration) does not have any release or catch to allow the CPU to slide out. I just grab it and start pulling and it slides out-- although it does not slide easily. That could be due to old, stiffened lubricant on the slides. BUT! make sure you pull out the front foot at the bottom of the rack to keep the whole rack from tipping forward if you do get the CPU to slide out. The CPU is a heavy beast and the rack WILL tip forward once the CPU is out far enough. Chris -- Chris Elmquist

4 years

While on the subject of cabinets...

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

If it's mounted in a standard BA11-K, no. You should be able to pull it out partially (sufficient to tip up if you have rotating slides) and then there should be locking-buttons on the slides to prevent further extension accidentally. Depressing those buttons will allow you to completely remove the chassis and its attached inner slides; the outer slides will remain in the rack. Be careful with full extraction -- the power supply is heavy and the chassis is unbalanced. It's really a two-person operation, or one best accomplished with some sort of supporting mechanism (even wooden cribbing if you are so inclined). If it's anomalously mounted in a BA11-A (like the 11/44) then there is a finger-tab accessible through the front grill on the upper-right that pulls back a spring-loaded side-tab that engages the rack frame to prevent *any* extension whatsoever. Pull that away from the rack-frame and then pull out the chassis. Of course, it's possible that you simply have rusted slides that are binding, in which case you will simply have to use force. Recommend _pushing_ from the rear if "reasonable yanking" from the front isn't working. Although I've encountered a fair share of rusty slides, all have yielded (slowly) to repeated yanking/pushing, even if only a few centimeters at a time. Penetrating oil applied from the sides will help, but after cleaning and polishing the slides suggest that you use graphite or lithium grease to re-lub when reassembling. Others may have alternative lubrication recommendations. -----Original Message----- From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Marc Howard via cctech Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 7:37 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: While on the subject of cabinets... I've got a PDP 11/34 I've never opened up. It's mounted in a H9642 cabinet. I can't get the bloody thing to extend on the chassis track slides. Is there a catch or lock screw on this unit? Thanks, Marc Howard

4 years, 1 month

Racking a PDP-11/24

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I am wondering if I have racked my 11/24 correctly. As you can see here: https://robs-old-computers.com/2022/02/10/pdp-11-24-progress/ I have put the CPU at the top and the two RL02 drives underneath. The problem is that the CPU enclosure catches on the RL02 underneath. There is a bit of play in the mounting bracket: https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2022/02/cpu-mounting-bracket.jpg. With a bit of manipulation I can get the CPU to slide in. However, I am wondering if I have racked it correctly? I don't think there is room to move the RL02s down and it would presumably leave a bit of a gap below the CPU. There seems to be very little clearance between the CPU and the RL02 at the front but more at the back, but I am sure that the rails are mounted horizontally. Is it just a matter of tightening the big screws that hold the mounting brackets to stop the play? If so I am not sure I have a big enough screwdriver! Regards Rob

4 years, 1 month

PDT-11 Virtual Terminal Monitor v1.07

by jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com

Hi! Anyone remember how to use this program that announces itself as "PDT-11 Virtual Terminal Monitor v1.07" ? I found it on a floppy of RT-11 v4.0 with my pile of PDT-11 treasures (which amazingly still seem to read fine and work wonderfully; disk file timestamps around 1979 - 1982). I thought maybe it was a term program, since these PDTs were kind of famous for that sort of deployment, and tried looping back pin 2 to pin 3 on each serial + modem port and typing some characters, but nothing shows up in vterm. It does come out of some mode into a command mode, I think, when I send a break to the console. ^C kills it from there and I can get back to RT. I found online a DECUS program of the same name (vterm), submitted by DEC circa 1979, and am wondering if this is the same beastie I've discovered on my 8" floppy: https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/… ; however, when I try to click through that decus website, the actual packages themselves seem to have been lost! Does anyone know where to obtain the actual files that came with this 110417 from DECUS? And if I'm on the right track, here? It would be cool to have this PDT-11 functioning as God intended if this vterm is actually a terminal emulator type of thing... thx jake

4 years, 1 month

Tandon TM 848-02

by bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com

Does anyone have anything on the jumper settings for this drive? I would like to jumper it so it can read DEC RX01/RX02 floppies. I am looking at being able to read disks on a non-DEC systems but I would also like to be able to use it on my Andromeda card in a real PDP-11. bill

4 years, 1 month

RQDX3/RD31/RX50 jumpers

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ????? Is the correct setting: ?????? 1. DS1 on the RD31 and the RX50's move up to DU1 and DU2. ?????? 2. DS3 on the RD31 and the RX50's are DU0 and DU1 I've tried both and it still? tries to access the RD31 and the RX50 at the same time. Its on a standrd BA23 R

4 years, 1 month

Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

>> (I have yet to check and see if the KY11-LB asserts SACK if the CPU >> halts on its own accord - probably 'yes', but that's a project for tomorrow.) Yes, it does. I toggled in the following program: 5000 5200 776 0 (what, you all can't program a PDP-11 in octal? :-) and hit 'start' and the SACK light on the UA11 flashed out and came back on when the machine finally halted. So then I looked at CPU tech manual for the KD11-E, and the HALT instruction seems to act exactly like the console has requested a processor halt; it just sets the HLT RQST signal (see Section 4.5.5 "Operate Instructions"). So, either (console halt, or a HALT instruction) will cause the identical response in the processor; see Section 4.10.3 "Halt Grant Requests": the CPU sends HLT GRANT to the console, which returns SACK. As long as SACK is asserted, the processor waits with its clock inhibited: "The user can maintain the processor in this inactive state (Halted) indefinitely. When the HALT switch is released, the user's console releases BUS SACK L, and the processor continues operation" This text is obviously for the KY11-LA; the KY11-LB will operate identically: when the console releases SACK, the processor resumes operation. > From: Fritz Mueller >> when I powered the machine on, it turned out that something was >> asserting SACK when the machine was halted > That is quite interesting, and not what I would have expected! Yes, I was quite surprised; I didn't expect that either. Now that I know that the KY11-LB uses it to talk to the KD11, I can work around it, though. I'll have to write all this up to warn others about it. >> The thing that's puzzling me is that the M8264 seems to exactly >> replicate the functionality of the M9302, with an 'unused' bus grant >> being turned into a SACK. So I don't understand the point of the M8264. > I think the only difference would be that since the M8264 is timer > based, it doesn't need the intact end-to-end path required for > turnaround. So your bus won't lock even if you have a broken grant > chain or a poorly behaved or hung device eating grants. You are right about it being timer-based, but I'm not sure the conclusion follows, at least exactly as stated. If there's a broken grant chain, then as you originally pointed out, the M9302 will jam SACK on. The M8264 could not even be there, and nothing would be any different. Same thing if the CPU asserts a grant in response to a now-removed interrupt request: the M9302 will jam SACK on, etc, etc. I'm racking my brain to think up _any_ circumstance in which the M8264 will assert SACK. in which the M9302 wouldn't. Thinking it through, there has to be a grant, but it can't get to the M9302 (because otherwise it would do its thing), but that failure to get there can't be simply a broken grant chain (ditto). So some device has to be malfunctioning: not passing a grant along, but eating it. So either a hard-failed component in the grant-passing circuit, or some design flaw. (It can't be a glitch; it has to be a permanent thing which prevents passing the grant.) I suppose that's possible, but I can't see any othey way. Noel

4 years, 1 month

Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

First, a minor correction: > the M8264 Sack Timeout module ... there's next to nothing in print > about them There is also some coverage in EK-KD11E-TM-001, at: Section 4.7.2.4 "M8264 NO-SACK Timeout Module" (pg. 4-41, pg. 87 of the PDF), which I found while looking for parity stuff (below). > From: Fritz Mueller > The KD11-E is pretty bare boned... Parity handling was also a quad "add on". ??? The KD11-E/EA doesn't do much with parity (below), so at first I thought that maybe you were thinking of the M7850 Parity Controller (which is actually a memory option, not KD11-E/EA specific; more below), but that's a dual card. The KD11-E/EA does not (like most PDP-11's) calculate parity; PDP-11 memory units do all the work, and signal 'parity error detected' to the CPU over the UNIBUS (using the PB line); the CPU will trap when it sees that (if enabled; the KD11-E and -EA can disable recognition of parity errors, with jumpers). See Section 4.7.2.7, "Parity Errors", in EK-KD11E-TM-001 (at pg. 4-45, pg. 91 of the PDF); the circuit diagram is on page K2-1 of the KD11-E/EA FMPS. The M7850 has to be in the same backplane as the memory, but that can be a different backplane from the one holding the CPU. So it can be 15' away, at the other end of a UNIBUS cable. Anyway, can you say more about the parity add-on? >> So if i) a device requests a grant, and then drops the request at >> _just_ the right time ... and ii) there's a break in that grant line >> ... before it gets to the M9302, which can turn it around as a SACK , >> then ... the KD11-E CPU will hang! > I believe a broken grant chain with an M9302 in place on the far side > results in the grant being pulled up at the M9302, and then continuous > assertion of SACK, hanging the processor straight out the gate. Oh, right you are! (I'm glad _your_ brain is runed on - unlike mine! :-) I happen to have an -11/04 (the -11/34's sibling) on the bench in my work room, with one of Guy's very useful UA11's plugged into it. (BTW, the UA11: http://www.shiresoft.com/products/ua11/Unibus%20Analyzer.html is fantastically useful as a UNIBUS debugging tool. Everyone working on UNIBUS machines should have one.) So I thought I'd go try an experiment. It turned out to be a bit more complicated than I thought, but you're basically right: a break in the grant lines (e.g. missing grant continuity card) causes the downstream card to 'see' 'phantom' incoming grants (open TTL inputs float high), and signal a grant on from there; and if there's an M9302 at the end of the bus, it will see that and jam SACK on. The complication was that when I powered the machine on, it turned out that something was asserting SACK when the machine was halted; if I put it into a 'BR .' loop, that goes away. I looked, and the KD11-D doesn't even _have_ a SACK driver! So I tried un-plugging the KY11-LB, and the 'SACK on halt' went away. (That machine has core, and I set the power-on vector to halt the machine.) Looking at the KY11-LB manual, it does in fact assert SACK (after it has sent the KD11 a 'halt request, and receives a 'halt acknowledge'), to recognize the CPU's acknowledgement of the halt request. (I have yet to check and see if the KY11-LB asserts SACK if the CPU halts on its own accord - probably 'yes', but that's a project for tomorrow.) The thing that's puzzling me is that the M8264 seems to exactly replicate the functionality of the M9302, with an 'unused' bus grant being turned into a SACK. So I don't understand the point of the M8264. Whether the cause of the grant is a rare timing window of a bus request being cancelled, or a broken grant line; with an M9302 in the system, a SACK will result. The only difference between the two is that because of the way grant lines are wired, the M8264 will not respond to a broken grant line 'downstream' of the M8264. The M8264 does add this capability to a system using an M930 terminator - but just switching to an M902 would be simpler. And the M9302 pre-dates the M8264, as we can see from EK-11034-OP-PRE2. So I'm really quite confused as to what the point of the M8264 was. Noel

4 years, 1 month

Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mattis Lind > What about the M9300 board? Do you have an idea what the purpose is of > that card? Yes, that one's well-documented and understood. It's intended for use on the 'B' UNIBUS of the RH11-AB, in deployment configuratons where that UNIBUS is in use, but there's no CPU on it to respond to NPR bus requests. (See: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RH11_Peripheral_Controller_Course.p… pg. 11 for an example; the 'B' UNIBUS of the -11/45 is used for a separate path into the 45's dual-port FASTBUS memory.) On such a UNIBUS, the M9300 is used at the start of the bus, and is jumpered to allow on-board circuitry to respond to an NPR with an NPG.It also has a SACK timeout capability, documented in: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RH11-AB_OptionDescr.pdf on pp. 69-70, but I'm not fully familiar with that. Noel

4 years, 1 month

Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

>> On Feb 19, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: >> The -11/34 (not the /34A) has something unusual for grant timeouts, >> but I forget the details. I'll look it up. And here it is... > From: Fritz Mueller > I think you are thinking of the M9302, Noel: a far-side terminator card > with integrated SACK turnaround? No; the M8264 Sack Timeout module. What's an M8264, you say? Well, there's next to nothing in print about them, but I think I've managed to assemble enough distant clues to work out their story. Start with EK-11034-OP-PRE2 (I have a hard-copy of it); it gives a clue as to how it all started. In 3.10.2, "End-of-Bus Terminator", it says: "As a result of this [SACK turnaround] circuitry [on the M9302], the SACK timeout feature found on other processors is not required" So if i) a device requests a grant, and then drops the request at _just_ the right time (so a grant gets sent out when there's no device waiting to grab it), and ii) there's a break in that grant line (maybe a missing grant continuity card) before it gets to the M9302, which can turn it around as a SACK , then ... the KD11-E CPU will hang! The M8264 was apparently the first attempt to deal with this. Like I said, there's next to nothing in print about them. EK-11034-UG-001, in Section 1.2, "System Description", does list "M8264 SACK Timeout module (11/34 only)" in the list of components - but says nothing else _at all_ about it! There is one page of circuit diagram of it, in: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1134/MP00082_1134_Vol2_Sep76.pdf on pg. 149. The rest of the prints for it (e.g. the PCB layout) aren't there, but I happen to have one - it's a quad board with only a few components on it. Looking at the circuit diagram, it's mostly just a 9602 retriggerable, resettable one shot. (There's also a synchronous 4-bit up/down counter, but that's just there to count events, and display the count in some LEDs - probably just to make sure it isn't happening too often.) Since I'm not a real hardware type, I'm not absolutely certain just from looking at the circuit diagram exactly what it does, or how, but EK-KD1EA-MM-001 Section 4.7.2.4, "No-SACK Timeout Circuitry", shows a very similar circuit, and says it "asserts BUS SACK ... [if the device] does not assert SACK within 22 usec after a grant line has been enabled." Presumably the M8264 does the same thing. Interestingly, that circuit appears in the KD11-EA prints on pg. K2-10; the KD11-E prints have a blank space on that page where this circuit is in the KD11-EA prints. Since the M9302 appears in EK-11034-OP-PRE2, with SACK turnaround, I deduce that the M8264 was produced _after_ that came out, and post-dates the M9302, to fix the potential CPU hang issue I described - and was later dropped when the -11/34 switched to the KD11-EA, with that circuit built in. I'll do a page on the CHWiki about the M8264, and include an image of one. I figure I might use my M8264 on my -11/04, which also doesn't have SACK timeout (on the BG lines, for sure; it looks like it might have it on the NPG line). The M8264 doesn't tie into the CPU, it just looks at UNIBUS lines, so it can be plugged into any UNIBUS machine (near the start of the bus, since the grant lines it monitors are wired sequentially). Noel

4 years, 1 month

Information about an unknown IC

by clemarjr＠gmail.com

Hi I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC. Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC? Thanks.

4 years, 1 month

Seeking paper tape punch

by fedorkow＠mit.edu

hi Steve, ? There's lots of raw material out there.? Al Kossow read hundreds of tapes a couple years ago, and posted the images at http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIT/whirlwind/X4222.2008_Whirlwind_ptp/ ? Whirlwind and modern readers disagree on what order the bits come in, but other than that, the files are perfectly usable.? We have some of the programs running in simulation, as you've seen. ? The Whirlwind tapes in the archive are all seven-level tapes punched on 7/8" paper. ? Let me know if there's something I can help with /guy Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:24:18 +1000 From:steven at malikoff.com To: "ben"<bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Seeking paper tape punch Message-ID: <78ae9afacbca8b3ca7e7a41c677659d0.squirrel at webmail04.register.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Ben said > This requires a REAL MACHINE SHOP ... none this 3d printer stuff. I > would recommend a building a 35mm film punch and reader, as film stock > is still easy to find compared to paper tape. Zuse used them for his > computers in Germany on the 40's. Quality Mechanical stuff is lost high > tech. Consumer-grade CNC stencil cutters are fine at cutting plastic sheet and should be ok with film stock. My ptap2dxf (latest version 1.3) will produce output to cut tapes for 8-level ASCII, 5-level Baudot, 2-level Morse (Wheatstone and Cable Code), 7-level Whirlwind, Teletype Chadless and some customising options too. Still some other formats to do such as Colossus etc. Thanks for the notion of making Zuse tape, will look into it. Steve.

4 years, 1 month

11/83 operating system load update -2

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ?? Well I have had a huge response to my request. I am unsure as to if I have defined the problem properly. So a few bullet points. 1. The objective is to copy RX50 disk images (*.dsk format) to genuine DEC RX50 disks. 2. The PC I want to use is a DEC Celeibris FX ie the PC and its W95 software is as supplied by DEC. 3. It has an RX33 5.25 inch floppy drive. 4. The RX33 _*is*_ capable of? reading and writing RX50 disks. 5.? putR was supposed to be able to do this. It does not. 6.? All that is lacking is the right utility. 7. Doing this does not need any disks other than RX50's. 8. Linux in any of its myriad of forms is not the answer. 9. simH is good at what it does but of no use here 10.? Its just a W95 utility program to copy an RX50 disk image to an RX50 disk on an RX33 drive on a DEC PC. 11. So whats it called? Does it work? given the above situation? Rod

4 years, 1 month

11/83 OS load - problem solved.

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi ???? Well I now have a full set of DEC orignal MicroRSX RX50 distribution disks. An old friend who I worked with at DEC had kept his install go bag and there they where. Not only that they are good and do boot. Its not over, RT-11 would be a better fit so I'm looking at that. Rod

4 years, 1 month

DEC VT52 CRT anode connection

by fritzm＠fritzm.org

Hi folks, I?ve begun some work on a VT52, and need to get the power supply board out onto my bench for some work. For those who have been in here before: is there a way to detach the HV anode lead at the board side (does the white ?cap? come off the lead connector?) Or is the only option to unclip at the CRT itself? They don?t make it easy to get to the anode cap in this terminal ? one has to pull the whole tube, with the power supply board in tow. After doing this for an inspection, I find the anode cap looking little brittle and covered with some red, oily ?goop?? I?d rather just leave that alone and detach from the board side if it works that way? cheers, ?FritzM.

4 years, 1 month

Speaking of tubes in computers.... 1st Honeywell 1000 computer used some surprise tubes!

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Speaking of? tubes in computers.... 1st Honeywell 1000 computer used some surprise tubes!? ??Imagine our surprise back then as? we unpacked our? first? group of? contributed Honeywell 1000 logic and saw....? LOCTAL TUBES!?Although SMECC does not? have? a complete Honeywell system of? this model? (CPU and? PS would? weigh in at 25,000 pounds? we have been told)? We DO possess? a wonderful collection? of documentation, parts? and? misc.? material related? to it, perhaps one of the best. Who else has some? We? used? to? think our 2 inch QUAD? videotape was a monster reel of? tape...BUT? WAIT!The First Honeywell Computer used 3 Inch Wide Tape! It was like mounting a Volkswagen Tire Wheel onto your computer tape drive! Channels or tracks on the tape... 31 Channels ?ALWAYS LOOKING? FOR MORE RELATED TO THIS COMPUTER!? See more info on this computer at: http://www.smecc.org/honeywell_datamatic_1000.htm drop me a note at? couryhouse at aol.com?

4 years, 1 month

cctalk Digest, Vol 89, Issue 21

by athornton＠gmail.com

The 11/83 question sounds like a job for SCSI2SD to me. Install a system with simh. dd the resulting disk image to your sd card. Hook the SCSI2SD up to your 11/83 and boot from the card. Copy the contents of that drive to your real SCSI drive. Done. SCSI2SD cards are not expensive and are a tremendous value for money.

4 years, 1 month

'dd' for Windoze (Was: cctalk Digest, Vol 89, Issue 21)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rod Smallwood > dd is a linux command. UNIX, actually. (V5, I think: https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V5/usr/source/s1/dd.c There no 'man'page for it in V4. Anyway...) > I only have windows PC's. There are Windoze versions. I've used this one: http://www.chrysocome.net/dd with success (under XP; probably works under others, too). Noel

4 years, 1 month

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