test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by mhstein＠canada.com

Sounds like a worthwhile project. Can't tell you why they used the 6520, can only speculate, same as you, that it's intended to sit on the 6500 bus while the DL1416s are a little more generic and might not interface directly without some additional logic & decoding anyway and using up more address space to boot. Also, since they brought a number of signals out to the display board that were not used, I suppose they might have intended to provide maximum flexibility; I'd think that no matter what signals & timing a display might require, you can generate it with the PIA and the wiring would be there, while you might not have what you need available on the bus without some extra glue anyway. BTW, I've used 6821s & 6520s interchangeably as well without problems. Not sure what you're looking for; the E & F ROMS are very well documented in the separate monitor manual which is on R Cini's site AFAIK (and in your care package waiting to go out), and if you wanted machine-readable source, the AIM itself should easily be able to disassemble the ROMs & send the source out on the serial port for capture. I've done some hacking of the monitor; my main accomplishment was to reverse & turn the printing upside down to allow mounting the board vertically with the tape feeding down, some graphic stuff, and trivial stuff like autostarting the user program, etc. I wouldn't think that the software to drive an LCD display would be very difficult; as I recall, there are hooks and vectors in place for user I/O. Of course even as it is, using the TTY switch the display is echoed out the serial port, but cursor movement codes might be incompatible with an ASCII Serial display. And I did find some extra DL1416s, although that won't help you with the unit that doesn't have a display board mike -------------Original Message-------------- Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:01:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> Subject: AIM-65 displays I am evaluating building a replacement display for the AIM-65 that does not use the DL1416. I have several modern options - a 20x1 LCD is cheap enough, as are more modern 4-char ASCII LED displays. The interface is somewhat trivial - the connector on the AIM-65 mainboard has enough signals to talk to a 6520 PIA (since that's what is on the normal display board to begin with). There are couple of angles to pursue... I have successfully tested a Motorola 6821 in place of the Rockwell 6520 in a real AIM-65. Since I have a few 6520s and many 6821s, that's a win. Either way, it's trivial to hang a display off of the 6502 bus without a PIA in the way. I'm curious if anyone knows why they bothered to put a 6520 on the display card? Did they want to keep the bus loading to a small, known quantity? If so, then I'll consider that any ASCII LED solution I come up with needs to have appropriate signal conditioning. I can't see how a modern LCD display would load the bus any worse than a 6520, so it might be worth the direct approach. So... the hardware is no big deal. The software, though, could be lots more work. I have real ROMs and ROM images. Are there any sources to the AIM-65 ROMs that are in a state to be compiled back into working, matching binaries? If I'm going to change the nature of the display, the code will have to follow. If the code is changing, then there's no reason I can't experiment with a multi-line display - I have a 20x4 VCD and a 20X4 LCD display already in hand. I think I can locate a 40x2 in my junk box, but at first, I'll probably ignore the right half and if I used it, treat it like a 20x2. Is there anyone out there who has done any real AIM-65 hacking? I can start from zero if I have to, but if there's any preexisting work out there, I'd like to see about starting ahead of zero. - -ethan

23 years, 11 months

Indigos and such (Was Re: IRIX)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner [mailto:spc@conman.org] > I used a Personal Iris 4D 35 at school. It came with IRIX > 3.3.2 which > used NeWS (Network Window System) for the GUI which was quite I didn't know IRIX ever used it. That's interesting. > fast (despite > being based on PostScript) and easily extensible, but that Despite being based on Postscript? :) Postscript must be easily more efficient than the X11 protocol ;) NeWS was (is) also supported under SunOS 4. For a while, the server was actually merged with the X11 server in a program called XNeWS. You could run the apps side-by-side. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

Indigos and such (Was Re: IRIX)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jason McBrien [mailto:jbmcb@hotmail.com] > Are Personal Irises good for anything? I've got two, a 25 > and a 35 and > they seem to work but I don't have a monitor or keyboard for Good for running IRIX 4.x or 5.x. They have no audio without a special option, possibly, so you'll want to check the configurations out. Also, as with other SGI systems, the graphics boards can make a big diference. Make sure they have all the plastic "skin," or they'll have cooling problems. I think the monitor and keyboard are the same as Indigo, but I'm not certain. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

Fluke 9010 Micro-System Troubleshooter ??

by troy.haag＠baesystems.com

Does anyone know where I could pick up/buy one of these pieces of test equipment?

23 years, 11 months

Anyone Care About RT-11

by cdl＠proxima.ucsd.edu

> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:46:25 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Anyone Care About RT-11 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > In-Reply-To: <3CC7778C.D5B157B3(a)compsys.to> > > > --- "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinepw4z(a)compsys.to> wrote: > > ...I also acquired some RK05 packs with old RT-11 distributions that I > > hope to make available as soon as I can find a controller for a Qbus > > or someone with both a working RK05 and something more > > recent such as an RL02. From the RL02, the final step is to > > make copies available via a CD. > > I have an RKV11D, numerous Qbus boxes and processors (this one came > attached to an 11/03, but I have lots of KDF11 stuff and one KDJ11 > that I have yet to power on (it has a BA213 handle which I haven't > removed yet, and it does not fit into a BA11N or BA23 as-is). I > also have RLV11s and RLV12s and RL02 drives in close enough proximity > to be useful. I haven't fired up the RK05 in several years, so I'm not > sure about the state of the rubber parts, etc., but it's all accessible > and somewhat easy to reassemble. It worked the last time I used it. > > I presume the RK11D does, but I wasn't sure how interchangable they > were fron a driver standpoint (Unibus and Qbus drivers can have issues > with mapping registers being handled differently, etc. Assumptions of > intercompatibility are unwise; we had completely different drivers for > our Unibus and Qbus products back in the old days). The RKV11D is really an RK11D with a different bus interface. Sort of a built-in Qniverter. Unfortunately the designers skimped on the extended address bits, so the RKV11 is 16-bit address space. I think that hardware hacks to add two address bits to make the RKV11 compatible with the RK!1 have been published, but I don't remember where. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

23 years, 11 months

M0006

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>Why whould it have been left behind in my 11/750 though? Shouldn't it >have been taken when the contract ended? They should have collected it when the machine came off maintenance. Someone probably forgot. Not too uncommon towards the end. Antonio

23 years, 11 months

Tape Crimper for 7/9-Track Magtape

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

One of these with the Digital label is going for ten bucks on E-Pay, with a thirty-buck buy-it-now and a ten buck S&H. Too high, but these are pretty obscure and getting moreso. Anyone got a pile of them? -dq

23 years, 11 months

Googling and "egg-sucking" (was Re: "Toy" computers...)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > It gets a lot of raised eyebrows at my current orkplace, but then > Is this related to the Gollum phrasing? Read the alt.sysadmin.recovery FAQ. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

AIM-65 monitor sources now available

by hansp＠aconit.org

Following an earlier thread on AIM-65, I would like to announce the availablility at www.aconit.org/hbp/AMI-65 of source files which assemble to the AIM-65 ROM monitor. The sources generally follow the PDF scans also on that page execpt in a couple of instances where source code changes were necessitated by bugs in the assembler. Hopefully I will fix the assembler soon and the original sources will then assemble clean. Also included on that page is a 6502 assembler (C source and DOS executable) slightly modified from a version picked off the net. -- hbp

23 years, 11 months

M0006

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>On closer inspection, the VAX 11/750 board that I have marked "Property > of DEC, Not For Sale" is an M0006 - a Remote Diagnosis board. What can > you people tell me about it? This was used by DEC to dial in to the computer over a telephone line and manage it as though someone were typing at the console. It used an unpublished protocol between the kit at DEC's end ad the box at your end. Technically the box still belongs to DEC ... or maybe COMPAQ ... or soon HP. The support engineer at DEC's end could do whatever he liked to your machine, but everyhting he did was recorded by the support centre's systems. Antonio

23 years, 11 months

Googling and "egg-sucking" (was Re: "Toy" computers...)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > --- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote: > > > > I was 35 when I found that the entire English-speaking > > > world doesn't "put stuff up" (put stuff away). > > > > I don't think we "put stuff up" (except for curtains, wallpaper and > > posters ;-), but here, we talk about cars and dishes that "need washed" > > (as opposed to "needs wash*ing*" or "needs *to be* washed"). > > What really drives my (Massachusetts-born) Spousal Equivalent up the > wall is when I'm [about to, going to] "fixing to" do something. Oh, we have a great one around here- "take and leave", as in "take and leave your car here, and we'll fix it". It's likely related to the usage as in "he's taken to drinking", which around here becomes "he's took to drinkun". A drinking buddy who was a mechanic would flame on when he'd hear that phrase. "Fair to middlin'" is my usual response to the casual how-are-you. It gets a lot of raised eyebrows at my current orkplace, but then we have many transplants there, and I'm local. -dq

23 years, 11 months

"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > They don't pay those costly License fees and support contracts > out of ignorance. todays mainframes are exteamly muscular, > having taken advantage of the same technical advancements Indeed. I would probably buy one regardless of the cost that the power bill would cause me. :) > Well, i had assumed most would know that a box that typically > served 5000 seats or more was powerfull even as most might > not know what it is that really sets these things apart. That's exactly where the misunderstanding came in, I think. It's taken as obvious, for the most part, but your statement that the entire campus full of hardware would be emulated on a single peesee seemed to say differently. At any rate, it makes much more sense now. > Channel I/O for example, translating to terms and concepts > more familiar to those without OPER console time, imagine a > "PC" where every orifice was pumped by its own dedicated > DMA controller, where you can have 65535 of these devices. > and fill em all up with no load on the CPU. Not having much time on mainframe systems, myself, I still imagined something like this, and you can pretty much infer it from talk of the things. > Remember when the mickysoft press release parroting nattering > nabob computer press was declaring the death of the mainframe ? They're not still doing it? That surprises me. > and very humorous events like when the idiot press would read a > product release about NT being ported to an FSIOP card, and run > to print "NT Ported to the mainframe ! " I would like to see that, actually -- the article, I mean. VM/NT -- Heh. I wonder what the "error number" is for all of the NT IOPs in the machine simultaneously jumbling up their RAM. > A FSIOP card, File Server I/O Processor, is a PC on a card that > plugs into the mainframe so that it can share mainframe DASD > (disk) or have a faster channel for I/O to PC based middleware, > it certainly isn't NT running on the mainframe in the manner > the hapless readers of these sorry articles was led to believe. I suppose such a product would be good if you need it. It could do better than to run NT. Maybe they should "port CP/M" to the mainframe. > As for CPU power, PC's are certainly as fast per CPU in a general > sense as a mainframe, but without the I/O capacity could never > hope to replace a mainframe anytime soon. I don't know exact numbers, but honestly, the CPU in a modern peesee isn't the weak spot at all. Generally there's some kind of bottleneck (or five) that needs repaired in the design. > The PC running something decent does rival the power of a > mainframe or a supercomputer of yesterday however, I wouldn't doubt that it might compare for certain (probably single-user) non-io-bound applications. I'm not sure I can make that conclusion for a supercomputer at all. When is "yesterday" in this context? :) > utter garbage that at last time i checked w2k needed 64megs > of ram for the installer to run ? how absurd ! Actually, I'd have expected it to need more than that. > Compare with the size of bsd/linux/unix that will still run on > a machine with 4megs or compare with a mainframe nucleus > and you see that they on the other hand, have stayed small > tight and fast. and assembler is still very mainstream > on the mainframe where thruput of massive loads is still > the focus. Your comment about mainframes having "stayed small" is oddly amusing, but perhaps it's because I got no sleep yesterday. > mips or so emulating 360/70/90 instructions is testament > that the lowly PC has become very muscular in its own right. Indeed. I'm sure there are some tasks to which a peesee is well suited, but the problem is -- aside from the common operating environment -- the baggage in the design, still hanging around from the beginning. (probably not too well-thought-out back then ;) They probably should have done something ground-up by now to take advantage of newer cores, bus technology, etc. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

R.I.P. for D.I.Y.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Jos Dreesen <jos.mar(a)bluewin.ch> >Industrial prototyping, which is what you do, is NOT hobbyist electronics. >I still stand by my opinion that handling the modern devices is beyond hobbyist >means. Ok, so you say. I just got done building two 50mhz frequency counters using SMT parts. The board is 1.8x2.1 inches and the display is 4 digit module with .375" 7 segment leds. The assembly includes 6 transistors (SOT) and a 74HC4017 (SMT) plus the Amtel (20pin dip) micro and associated chip resistors, caps and diodes. The resistors were the large 1206 (.11x.06") parts. There were a total of 5 through hole parts if you count the crystal and display. With a low power magnifier, standard weller 3/64" tip, .022 silver bearing solder, and a pair of #3 tweezers it went together quite fast. The last time I built an equivelent frequency counter it was 4 74192, 2x74273, 4x7447, 4x man3a leds, 2x74390, 2x 7400 plus all the caps, resistors and transistors and if didn't fit on a 2x2" board or only draw 60mA! At that time (1984) that cost me nearly 40$ in chips alone and I had to make the board. If anything, for those willing to adapt I'd say there are possibilities available now that never were. Lets face it, back in say '84 the thought of using a micro for a trivial task was sorta over the top, they weren't all that cheap or all that flexible. Now with basic stamps, PICs, amtel and the like a really good selection of flash rom parts at attractive prices and fast enough to do serious tasks or cheap enough to do dumb thing like PC keyboard to serial or parallel ascii. One of the things going on in the ham (amateur radio) community is packing PICs, DDS and a simple transceiver in an altoids tin (3.5x.75x2.25"). Oh and people still build boat anchors too. Allison

23 years, 11 months

YangTech Electric VIP Model PC800

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Anyone seen one of these buggers before? It's a Yangtech Electric Co. Ltd. VIP Model PC800 desktop computer. Made in Taiwan. Looks like a 8088 or 80286 Intel CPU, but I can't seem to find chips with significant marks. Has one 20MB MFM HD on it, a 5.25 and a 3.5 floppy. Durn thing doesn't boot, and I can't find docs or anything on it. Any information is handy...likely it's not a significant find, but I'm intrigued nonetheless. Thanks, Tarsi 210

23 years, 11 months

bubble bags

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Well, I went and bought a ton of those pink anti-static bubble bags so I can properly store my spare DEC boards. If anyone wants to buy a bunch, just let me know. I'll have to go dig up the sales slip and figure out a cost. They just barely fit a hex DEC board, and thus they easily fit a Quad board. 10" X 15.5" plus a 1.5" sealable lip. Though personally I dont bother sealing the bags. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

23 years, 11 months

"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by rmoyers＠nop.org

On Saturday 27 April 2002 16:28, you wrote: > > Today that campus worth of hardware is emulated in the hercules > > s360/370/390/ zSeries emulator http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules > > running on a PC running linux or winbloZ > > > > OS, DOS, MVS, VM ... running on your pc, serves x3270 > > terms over the network etc etc. > > Ow! You're killing me! Actually, its sort of unexpected that you havent been pointed to this project or found this on your own. Its certainly a less cost option than a P370/390 card These guys for example have a turnkey cdrom image where you can go from the cd burner to a TSO login in only a few minutes. A real box can total flood a bundle of gigabit fiber the diameter of your right leg, its the I/O that sets these monsters apart really, their CPUs are no slouch, but not any faster than a common modern PC chip. Course there is their memory scrubing, the ability to hotspare memory modules on the fly, redundancy that can even deal with failed cache and buss lines. After reading about all the bother they go to to make these things survive failures and glitches, it brings to mind a senario where you wonder how many .45 cal pistol slugs the machine could absorb before the failure handler could no longer cope. There is a paper that explains the systems and schemes that go into the machines hardware fault tolerance that would leave the first time readers jaw agape, but i cant dig up the url at present. The emulator is still a very worthwhile project to look at however, and despite me using it first as a brickbat its rather cool and usefull for doing real work. (Development at home etc) Raymond -------------------------------------------------------

23 years, 11 months

IBM AT power supply case/cooling question

by mythtech＠mac.com

>If you're at all >worried about EMI, it might be reassuring to put some ferrous metal screen, >the sort used to repair, or scavenged from, OLD screen doors, not the new >ones, over the PSU's larger openings. Does the metal screen material you can buy at Home Depot or the likes work? I think it is made of Aluminum, but I've never really checked (as I find the nylon screen easier to work with, so that is what I have always bought when rescreening windows or doors) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

Starting point

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > There was one big advantage to starting from a home computer rather than > just a CPU chip. You had a 'base system' that included enough software to > PEEK/POKE bytes to your homebrew add-on for testing. That alone made life > a lot easier when you wwre starting out. Tony! This is exactly the point I was making a few months ago about the ZX81. At that time, you said you'd prefer to start with a Z80 and build up >from there, while I suggested that the ZX81 was a better starting point for a homebrew system since the BASIC and video were built-in. Care to clarify? Glen 0/0

23 years, 11 months

Googling and "egg-sucking" (was Re: "Toy" computers...)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> --- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > Dude. > > > > Fire up your favorite Open Source browser. Go to http://www.google.com > > > > Do a search for this (quotation marks included): > > > > "Teach Grandpa to suck eggs" > > > BTW Google doesn't find the quoted string... > I got one hit with this... "teaching grandpa to suck eggs" > > And a bunch more by using the exact phraseology I heard growing up... > > "teach your grandma to suck eggs" > > With Google, spelling (and precise word selection) counts. > > > Argh. > > Once again, what I thought was a universal expression turns out to be > > a Texasism. > > I would count it as an American Colloquialism, but I don't think of the > phrase as uniquely Texan. Today, we might get more mileage out of this with a slight retooling: "You don't teach Gollem to suck eggses" ;)

23 years, 11 months

R.I.P. for D.I.Y."

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> OK, but these are not the kind of devices I was refering to. > I have seen the immense effort that goes into prototyping GSM phones. That is > which lead to my opinion that such development is beyond any hobbiest means. I'm not sure I understand this. Are the GSM prototypes with which you are familiar, FINISHED prototypes, i.e. same size, circuits, etc, as the final product? If so, I'd understand the difficulty, but that is a form of prototyping that I'm only familiar with through the efforts of non-technical people to get involved in the hi-tech field. I guess it gets done that way a lot, and this is likely the source of the devices we swear at. Usually, the prototypes I've developed, are what we refer to as level-1 prototypes. They demonstrate the basic concept as being workable. At level-2. you bring in accountants and marketing people to work with the engineers to see if the device can be produced in a cost-effevtive manner, wherein the beanheads determine that they'll actually be able to make a profit >from the manufacture and sale of the item. Many otherwise promising designs die here because the engineer won't let the beancounter substitute that switch that will break at the device's half-life, or because the engineer won't let the marketing guy make the device purple and yellow. Good for the bloody engineer, too... -dq

23 years, 11 months

CP/M-86

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > I've been playing around with cp/m-86, and was wondering if > anyone knew if > > a multiuser (like MP/M) version was available somewhere? > My next step is > > to try making it work under Dosemu on Linux if I cant... > Have you looked at "Concurrent CP/M-86"? "Concurrent DOS" in later versions, right? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

M0006

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>Antonio, you spoilsport :-P > I was going to ask Alex for his phone number! So do you have the CSC-end of the kit that you will need to do that? I'm assuming that since they want to all the trouble of producing something marginally secure, the customer end of the secure connection cannot be used to dial out to some other customer end (otherwise it would not have been *that* secure). If you *do* have the CSC-end of the kit I'm seriously impressed :-) Although until Alex fixes his +2.5V regulator, there's not much you can do ! Antonio >

23 years, 11 months

Commodore PC-20-III

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Well, I'm now the (proud?) owner of a Commodore PC-20-III. Ironically, this is a Commodore I know little about although it is a more or less vanilla PC clone, but there are some weird things about it. First, there's a composite video out on it. What kind of graphics did these have in them? I haven't cracked the case yet, but there's also apparently a video card in one of the slots (with six DIP switches? used for what?) and a two-port card with two DB-15s on it that I can't immediately identify. Anyone out there own one of these and can tell me a little about it? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If at first you don't succeed, don't go skydiving. -------------------------

23 years, 11 months

Apple II Unidisk 3.5/LIRON card

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all (except Dick :-) ), I'm having a problem with an Apple IIe Platinum, and I hope you can help. I recently acquired a LIRON 3.5" floppy controller card, and was looking forward to using 3.5" disks on my AIIe. After some reading, it seemed that the LIRON card would only work with a Unidisk 3.5" (model number starts with "A2M"), and NOT with a 3.5" drive from, say, a IIgs (model number starts with "A9M"). So, of course, I went and found a Unidisk 3.5" drive... The combination doesn't work, *even with every other card pulled*, so here are my questions: - Will the LIRON card work with the Unidisk 3.5" drive? My reading of several FAQs says "yes", but maybe I misread something... - Does anyone have docs for either the drive, or the card? There are no switches or jumpers, and the installation seems obvious, but who knows, maybe I missed something.... - Can you boot from the 3.5" drive? Or is it only for storage, and you can only boot with 5.25" drives? Thanks for any help! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

23 years, 11 months

"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Allison [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net] > It has been done. At one time you could get "cp/m processor" > cards for VAX, > PDP-11 and several other machines. Most had several Z80s for multiple > users. Not exactly "mainframe," but do they come in QBus modules? :) That would make one hell of a CP/M machine. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

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