How about building an 'information appliance' toaster, like Microsoft
wants you to? For purely parody purposes, of course. Maybe I'll do
something like that.
Maybe it will have a network card, and I'll demonstrate toaster
operation with CGI scripting. And put up a toastercam. I'm not
kidding, this seems interesting...
>
>I don't count 'Insert VGA card tab 'A' into slot 'B'' as being
'building
>a computer'. When I talk about building a machine I mean from chips and
>wire and hand-etched (or wire-wrapped) boards.
>
>> If its a computer or controller (or something, haven't gotten around
to
>> laying out the ground rules yet) and you built it from the chip,
>> transistor or sand level, its admissable.
>
>I personally think that you should remember that when homebrewing was a
>lot more common (or was at least a larger part of home computing), a
lot
>of the projects were expansion cards for the Apple ][ etc. And that
there
>certainly should be a category for homebrewed cards in commerical
>machines.
>
>> > Does it have to be a complete machine, or will an add-on/interface
for a
>> > commercial computer count?
>>
>> Probably, but it would have to do something really cool! Like allow
you
>> to choose the speed on your blender from a radio-button on your
computer
>> or something.
>
>You mean a calculator with a colour video display and a robot arm
doesn't
>count? No I didn't homebrew the calculator, but everything else is
>mine.... Details available from HPCC if you're mad enough to want to
>build one...
>
>Seriously, I wasn't thinking of having the expansion cards in the same
>group as totally homebrewed machines (including the CPU). But as a lot
of
>'classic' homebrewing was interfacing, then it should be included
somehow.
>
>Perhaps have several categories. The ones off the top of my head are :
>
>Homebrew CPU - Anything where the CPU is not a standard commercial
>chip/machine. Homebuilt CPUs from relays, transistors, TTL, FPGAs, etc
>
>Homebrew microcomputer - Using a standard CPU chip (any), make a
computer
>not using standard PCBs. A general purpose machine which can run user
>programs, I think, though.
>
>Controller - a homebrew embedded control system using just about
anything...
>
>Interface - a homebrew expansion card/interface module for a (classic?)
>computer.
>
>Homebrew == built from chips/transistors/relays/valves. Not plugged
>together from standard boards...
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>Homebrewing is still going on. Its just not as prevalent any more because
>each year the art dies a little more.
I think the tales of homebrewing's demise are being a bit exaggerated.
Certainly, the character of homebrewing has changed greatly over
the past 20 years. It is true that some of today's tools of the trade -
for example, a good PAL/GAL programmer - are
more expensive than many of tools of 1975. But in real dollars,
today's $800 device programmer is much cheaper than, say, an 8080A
CPU, which had a street price of US$250 or so in 1975.
And many folks are doing very interesting things with programmable
devices. You can get into PIC programming for well under $100, and
there's lots of really interesting things you can do with that.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917
7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817
< Take a PIC17C42. This chip executes a respectable number of
< instructions/sec out of external memory. Link it up to some EPROMs - 16
< bits wide for the PIC instruction and enough extra bits to control the
< data path + rest of the homebrew processor. The PIC is not going to
I did that in 1980 using a 8048, slower but the same idea.
Allison
>Does anyone have really good references on learning basic computer
>design and implementation? To put things in perspective, right now
>I'm at a "Getting Started in Electronics" and "Introduction to Digital
>Electronics" Radio Shack level -- please hold back your laughter :)
The classic reference would be Don Lancaster's _TTL Cookbook_, which
is still being published in pretty much its original early-1970's
version.
For a slightly broader view of electronics - and a very solid
introduction to both digital and analog techniques - you'll
also want Horowitz and Hill's _The Art of Electronics_. Mr.
Transistor Man, here you come!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917
7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817
>hard to come by these days, but how about modern equivalents? I think
>that's the lowest level I'll personally go, although it would be really
>fun to build a 4-bit computer out of transistors, anything more complex
>is probably really difficult.
Why not go for a bit-serial (aka 1-bit) CPU? It's an extremely classic
design, and is certainly the way to go to minimize total transistor
count.
>I've got some plans of designing a computer this year. I'll probably
>get my feet wet with a simple 4-bit design, but I'd like to do a 12-bit
>computer (since my "inspiration" is a PDP-8).
The PDP-8/S is a -8 done in a bit-serial implementation. 78 microseconds
for some instructions!
If you don't mind making about a 15-year advance in the electronics
you'll be using, you might also seriously consider making a CPU via the
state machine route, using an EPROM and some counters. All math and logic
operations can very easily be done via table look-up in the EPROM. This
is a rather common assignment in lower-level computer engineering courses,
as it's something that can be easily wire-wrapped in an afternoon or two,
and it is extremely easy to try new microcode revisions.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917
7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817
My God... as little as six months ago, 11/44's seemed rare. Now it
seems like they're coming out of the woodwork!
Another free system over in Texas. Contact the fellow directly if
interested...
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On 2 Oct 1998 02:01:12 GMT, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote:
>>From: "Eric" <evb(a)citx.com>
>>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
>>Subject: pdp11/44 free to good home in TX
>>Date: 2 Oct 1998 02:01:12 GMT
>>Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here
>>Lines: 13
>>Message-ID: <01bdeda9$0467a840$22a442c6(a)moonpie.citx.com>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.66.164.34
>>X-Trace: 907293672 0R4SAZH0CA422C642C usenet54.supernews.com
>>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse(a)supernews.com
>>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!spamkiller1.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!199.60.229.5!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail
>>
>>11/44 CPU
>>TS11 tape drive
>>(2) RK07 disk units
>>many rk07 packs
>>decwriterII
>>vt100 terminal
>>manuals, service history
>>unit operational at de-installation
>>deinstalled from a school
>>
>>30 days and it's going to the metal scrapyard, would rather see her have a
>>good home.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) jps [dot] net
Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object,
event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
< and peripherals together to make a (shudder) PC. I'm talking about
< *REAL* iron (or aluminum.) Starting from basic relay, transistor, or I
Lessee, I do much of my own bent metal, cases cost! I've been building
hardware for far to many years to count.
< (SSI or MSI only!) and rolling a machine the "hard way." Recreations o
Even the 8008 was considerd LSI!
< old machines (i.e. building your own PDP-1) would make a very
< interesting discussions.
Difficult as well as where down one get core these days?
I'd love to build a PDP-8 from the ground up using current (nonFPGA)
tech. For the moment I've building up a z80/s100 crate and doing a
z280s/CPM project for my self.
Allison
I was sort of interested but the shipping cost Vs what I have on hand was a
debate. I see by a recent posting he has had several offers. If he had
some unusual peripherals I would not have hesitated.
Thanks
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)my-dejanews.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 1:08 AM
Subject: FW: pdp11/44 free to good home in TX
My God... as little as six months ago, 11/44's seemed rare. Now it
seems like they're coming out of the woodwork!
Another free system over in Texas. Contact the fellow directly if
interested...
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On 2 Oct 1998 02:01:12 GMT, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote:
>>From: "Eric" <evb(a)citx.com>
>>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
>>Subject: pdp11/44 free to good home in TX
>>Date: 2 Oct 1998 02:01:12 GMT
>>Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions
Start Here
>>Lines: 13
>>Message-ID: <01bdeda9$0467a840$22a442c6(a)moonpie.citx.com>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.66.164.34
>>X-Trace: 907293672 0R4SAZH0CA422C642C usenet54.supernews.com
>>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse(a)supernews.com
>>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155
>>Path:
blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!spamkiller1.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!199.60.2
29.5!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail
>>
>>11/44 CPU
>>TS11 tape drive
>>(2) RK07 disk units
>>many rk07 packs
>>decwriterII
>>vt100 terminal
>>manuals, service history
>>unit operational at de-installation
>>deinstalled from a school
>>
>>30 days and it's going to the metal scrapyard, would rather see her have a
>>good home.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) jps [dot] net
Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an
object,
event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any
of them..."
I have some complete BA123 supplies here. I also have 4 BA123 chassis that
are on my trailer that is heading for the scrap dealer. The ones on the
trailer have been outside for a while but you can have anything you want
>from them.
I also have numerous BA23 chassis inside - just let me know what fried.
Dan Burrows
dburrows(a)netpath.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 3:04 PM
Subject: BA123 Power Supplies
If it isn't one problem it's another. Last night I left the PDP-11/23+
(still haven't gotten it to work with a /73 CPU board) running for about 4
hours to see how it handled being left on. The only thing running was
"show mem" on the console since I was working on some other stuff.
Much to my terror/irritation, about 10pm I noticed a buzzing or sparking
sound. I quickly moved it away from the sofa, and started investigating.
It sounds as if something in the area where you've got the breaker and the
powercord plugs in is 'arcing and sparking'. I've got to take off in a
little while, but I plan on looking into this later this afternoon or
tonite.
Unfortunatly I don't have any docs on the BA123 (just the BA23), so will be
having a fun time figuring out how to get it apart.
Does this problem sound familiar to anyone, and does anyone have any
suggestions?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
Howdy all,
My name is Aaron Hayden and I have recently joined the list. Currently in
my collection I have a C64, a PC Jr., a Hero robot and my trusty 486-66. I
enjoy using the older systems and in some cases I think they're a bit more
user friendly (at least for me). I was looking for some info on my PC Jr.
and found the list. I'm sure I'll gain some knowledge and hopefully give
some too. Which brings me to my first question... I was just recently
given the PC Jr. however it seems it doesn't work. I have only plugged it
in a couple times but haven't looked at it much more than that. I also do
not have any documentation on it so I'm flying blind. When I turn it on the
screen turns all grey. Anybody have this problem before? It has been
sitting for a while but worked fine until it was boxed up. It came w/ two
power supplies so maybe their both bad? Any ideas? thanks in advance.
Aaron
Thanks for all of the responces. They're very much appreciated. At any
rate, while attempting to keep my first message short I left out some
important info. So we'll see if this clarifies any? I have a 4863 monitor
(which does not use the RCA plug). This computer has two floppy drives and
two cartidge slots. Which slot is primary? The left I assume. With the
machine I got a BASIC cartridge, three DOS 2.1 disks, and a couple DOS 3.21
disks. However, I don't think the computer is trying to boot. That is,
it's not reading the drive (red LED doesn't light). I didn't get any
manuals with it, although I'm sure I have the monitor plugged in right. It
only can go in one plug, one way. The keyboard however, can go in a lot of
places, but which one? It came w/ two power supplies and the computer acts
the same with either one. (I have not had a chance to check them with the
info I've got so far). I do not have a logic analyser (but I do have a RCA
signal generator used to work on t.v.'s if that can be used i
n any way). Again, thanks for the help and I hope this info helps too.
Aaron
> From: "D. Peschel" <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Robot Odyssey?
>
> I hope I didn't mention this before...
>
> I'm looking for any versions of a game called "Robot Odyssey". It was written
> by The Learning Company and is a very unusual combination of an electronics
> simulator and a 2-D adventure game.
A two minute search on Yahoo have me this archive directory:
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/mac/apple_II/images/educational/robot_odyssey/
> The Apple ][ version sold especially well; there were three versions (1.0,
> 1.1, 2.0). I own an original copy of 1.0. I _had_ an original copy of 2.0
> and sold it, and still feel really stupid. The only pirated copies are 1.0.
>
> However, there were also versions for: the IBM PC (definitely exists), the
> Tandy CoCo (almost definitely exists), and the Commodore 64 (probably exists).
> TLC may have promised others (Atari?) which were never released.
>
> I'm posting here because:
>
> - The kind of geeks on this list would probably love this game. :)
>
> - The Apple newsgroups are a waste of time.
>
> - No one at the VCF had any idea what I was talking about.
When I went to school they had PETs...
> - Maybe someone knows the authors of the program? The receptionists
> at TLC are (obviously) clueless, but I've heard that even talking
> to higher-up people there is a waste of time. (This is from a Web
> site I found.) So if there's any chance of getting "inside" info
> on the program, the authors are it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- Derek
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>of my parts and tapes. I discovered that I've got two ESDI controllers,
>instead of the one that I knew about, one is a Emulex QD21 which I found
>the manual online for, the other a "Webster WQESD" which I have the manual
>for.
Which version of WOMBAT is on your WQESD? You can identify this by either
looking at the sticker over the firmware EPROM, or if this doesn't tell
you, by starting up the on-board diagnostics. Certain versions of Wombat
do not interact well with RSX-11M's DU driver. Very often, older versions
will work better than certain newer versions. Most of my systems are running
WOMBAT V2.3, which works fine for me with the PDP-11 OS's (but *not*
with later VMS versions.) WOMBAT V2.3 does work a little strangely with
2.11BSD's MSCP driver when you do a "shutdown -r", having something to
do with the CPU doing a bus reset while the controller is still doing a write.
I've never attempted to compile a list of which versions of the PDP-11 OS's
do and do not work with various WOMBAT versions, but perhaps it would
be worthwhile to build such a table. As it is, I just pop in different
firmware EPROM's until it works.
It's also worth checking that the WQESD really does respond to the CSR
you think you've set it to. The table in your manual is probably correct
for the most common address configuration PAL, but there are several
dozen different address configuration PAL's that were made for special
applications. If you have one of these non-standard PAL's, you'll
probably be much better off to put the WQESD at 17772150 and the floppy
controller at some other CSR.
---
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917
7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817
Available immediately:
Two computer racks. One is a ~7foot tall Sun rack, regular 19" rail spacing,
vented top, and nice side panels. The other is a System Industries
rack, about 5 feet tall, with regular 19" rail spacing and an additional
area to the right holding the power distribution system. The SI rack
has a bank of 120VAC fans on top for cooling, too.
You pick up in Bethesda, MD. I'll help load them onto your truck.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917
7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817
Allow me to introduce you to my vanity:
http://www.vintage.org/vcf/press.htm
VCF press clippings for the past year or so.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
Came close to finding the cable for my laptop by instead found some audio
cables that probably belong to either Rax or Roger. I'll be in SF next so
I'll try to bring them and drop them off with Roger since I know about
where he lives.
Can Rax and Roger please check their audio gear and see if my laptop cable
got mixed in with some of theirs? You'll know it when you see it: normal
wall plug on one end (three-prong) and a funky three-prong on the other
that looks like it can't belong to anything but a stupid Compaq laptop.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
Here's the Guardian article for those who were interested in reading it.
Copyright 1998 Guardian Newspapers Limited
The Guardian (London)
October 1, 1998
SECTION: The Guardian Online Page; Pg. 4
LENGTH: 739 words
HEADLINE: Not just any old iron;A festival of vintage computers threatens to
rewrite computing history. Karlin Lillington reports
BYLINE: Karlin Lillington
BODY:
Computing history is clear - microprocessors were invented by three engineers
at Intel in 1971. Or were they? That notion was disputed in a press conference
at the Vintage Computer Festival in Santa Clara, California on Saturday, when
an obscure computer consultant from San Jose revealed that he initiated work
on a secret onboard computer for the US Navy's F-14A TomCat fighter jet that
contained a chipset comprising three microprocessors and three support chips -
in 1968 (and completed in 1969).
According to 53-year-old Ray Holt, the Navy has only now released documents
allowing him to publish the details of his work. Holt read out an analysis
>from a former chip designer for Motorola, Russell Fish, which stated his
belief that, had the microprocessor design been made public in 1969, it would
have advanced the industry by five years. However, two of the Intel engineers
involved with the creation of the 1971 microprocessor, Ted Hoff and Federico
Faggin, have already disputed the claim in a Wall Street Journal article,
centring on the correct definition of a microprocessor (six chips should not
qualify, according to the two).
Whoever deserves the laurels, the achievement of Holt and his small team was
astonishing for its time. In today's world of finicky microprocessors, which
overheat easily, the chips in Holt's F-14 could function at the temperature of
boiling water - in a range of -55C to +125C. Because of size and weight
restrictions for the F-14, the circuit board was an extraordinary 6 by 4
inches for a highly sophisticated flight computer that analysed and controlled
altitude, angle, speed, missile systems, positioning of the movable wings, and
other functions. Machines of similar power at the time weighed 300-400 pounds.
'I think as computer designers and people interested in history, we need to
know this happened,' says Holt. 'That back then, we could do this.' Other
hardware at the show at least enjoyed a moment of fame - however fleeting. Who
now remembers the MAD Computer, the Sol, the Exidy Sorcerer or the Czech
-designed Tesla 780, which used a TV set as its monitor? Most people might see
the machines as just back-of-the-garage dust magnets, but hardcore computer
buffs were entranced by these footnotes to the history of computing, lovingly
displayed at the show.
Organised by a Sam Ismail, a goateed, hyperactive young programmer who started
his own collection of 200 machines 11 years ago at age 17, the festival
attracted several hundred devotees. The kind of person who thrills at the
mention of the Altair, the kit-built, embryonic personal computer from 1975.
Some came for the computer flea market, others to hear such speakers as
computer designer turned Microsoft researcher Gordon Bell (who admitted during
his talk on the prehistory of personal computers that he proposed to his wife
using a program he created at DEC). But the festival's soul lay in the
impromptu museum of geriatric hardware.
Sitting among neat rows of his Commodore PCs, exhibitor Larry Anderson
explained the motivation for collecting what others send to the landfill:
'Nostalgia. This is the type of computer I went to school and used,' he says,
caressing the metal casing of a 1977 Commodore 2001 series PC. The machine
boasts 4 kilobytes of memory - in comparison, computers today routinely come
with 4,000 times as much. 'Chips were so unreliable that the Commodore came
with a spare,' says Anderson, pointing to an extra chip taped into one corner
of the box, like an extra coat button. The manufacturer warned that chips
frequently came loose and needed to be pushed back down. The Atari manual, he
says, actually recommended dropping the machine from three to four inches if
it wasn't working properly.
Nearly every species of computer basked in visitors' attention: the 1975
prototype Apple I, screwed onto a piece of plywood by Apple founders Steve
Wozniak and Steve Jobs; the first IBM PC, and the first Sun micro computer.
The crowning event was the Super Nerd computer quiz, covering such categories
as computing acronyms, computers in the movies and 'Nerdpourri'. Ismail
conducted the entire quiz - to much general admiration - from behind the green
-screen glow of an Apple III from his collection.
Ray Holt's paper on the F-14A computer's architecture is at
www.microcomputerhistory.com The Vintage Computer festival is at
www.vintage.org/vcf/
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
On Wednesday I got a IBM AS/400 model 9404 for free, it is just the CPU unit
with the front cover missing. It had two keys with it along a 5 1/4 FD and a
tape backup unit installed. I've been trying to get some information about
>from IBM's web site but not much luck. Hope to fire it up soon. John
>< IIRC the Pro 325 uses an F11 as well, although I've not seen one.
>
>The pro325 and 350 are the same machine save for the 325 is floppy only
>and the 350 had floppy and hard disk.
Right...
>< I am not suprised. Although there's a PDP11 CPU in there, the I/O
><system and interrupt structure is nothing like any other PDP11...
>
>the primary thing was the memory mapped video. the PDT-11 also had
>strange IO.
The PDT-130 and -150 both used the same device driver (PD), though
they would display as different device codes, if I remember. The
interesting thing about them was the fact that the firmware knew
about RT-11 queue elements, so all the driver had to do was take the
queue element and pass it to the ROM, which handled the IO, returning
if there was an error, or when the request was satisfied. The driver
then returned to the monitor the completed queue element.
The PDTs were also interesting in that they used an 8085 (later an
8085A) to handle the IO page. Word accesses were about 90ms, byte
accesses were about 180ms if I remember correctly, and we had to
avoid any read-modify-write instructions (BIS/BIC) otherwise it would
take twice as long as the 90ms/180ms...
Finally, an interesting point, the PDT-11/110, which had no storage
devices, had code in ROM which understood the same protocol as the
GT40 for downloading code...
Somewhere I have a program I wrote for use at a science fiction
convention (worldcon-1980, in boston) where I used a PDT-11/150
to download a GT40 with various programs like lunar lander or
roses, or bowling, etc... (The favorite, of course, was lunar
lander)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
I was a member of this list for quite a while but the mail load got to
be too much for my school account.
I have placed an Apple Lisa 7/7 on the eBay auction recently. The
bidding ends on Sunday the 4th of October. It's a nice system and I
posted a ton of pictures at my page:
http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast/sfs/lisa/lisa.html
The bidding hasn't been that great so I think this system will go for a
good price. It will sell regardless. If this post offends anyone, I
apologize but I know some people here might want one of these for their
collection and this might be a good opportunity.
For more info, check out the auction listing at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=32694351
and check out the pictures at the link above.
The bidding must take place through the auction now that I've listed it.
Bidding is free but you must register with the auction.
Thanks,
Greg
Has anyone been to the Computer Museum of America? It's near San Diego,
California. URL is http://www.computer-museum.org/.
Looks interesting, but I'm using Lynx at the moment and can't see anything.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
There was write up of the VCF in todays Guardian, it included a picture
of an Altair and a wooden Apple, along with an account of Ray Holt's
talk.
It also says the it was organised by "...Sam Ismail, a goateed,
hyperactive young programmer who started his own collection of 200
machines 11 years ago...". Is this a fair description Sam? ;-)
Regards
Pete
PS Congratulations, Sam, on what seems to have been a very sucessful
event.
http://members.aol.com/Fractal101/odyssey.htm
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Peschel [mailto:dpeschel@u.washington.edu]
Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 4:08 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Robot Odyssey?
I hope I didn't mention this before...
I'm looking for any versions of a game called "Robot Odyssey". It was
written
by The Learning Company and is a very unusual combination of an electronics
simulator and a 2-D adventure game.
The Apple ][ version sold especially well; there were three versions (1.0,
1.1, 2.0). I own an original copy of 1.0. I _had_ an original copy of 2.0
and sold it, and still feel really stupid. The only pirated copies are 1.0.
However, there were also versions for: the IBM PC (definitely exists), the
Tandy CoCo (almost definitely exists), and the Commodore 64 (probably
exists).
TLC may have promised others (Atari?) which were never released.
I'm posting here because:
- The kind of geeks on this list would probably love this game. :)
- The Apple newsgroups are a waste of time.
- No one at the VCF had any idea what I was talking about.
- Maybe someone knows the authors of the program? The receptionists
at TLC are (obviously) clueless, but I've heard that even talking
to higher-up people there is a waste of time. (This is from a Web
site I found.) So if there's any chance of getting "inside" info
on the program, the authors are it.
Thanks,
-- Derek
Is there any interest in Tandy 1000's? As far as I can tell, they all look
like basic systems with 2 floppies. May have some matching monitors.
Local non-profit has a bunch (from a school) and doesn't know what to do
with them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Since this is about DOS, which is >10, I think it's postable.
What I'm wondering about is the entire format description, like the
FAT, sector headers, everything.
>> OK, next question. While I look for weird expansion cards, is there
>> any book that I stand a chance at finding which details the DOS flopy
>> format?
>
>Are you looking for the DIRectory structures, track layout (sector
>headers and the like), or explanation of MFM?
>
>
>ADMIN Q: Should those items get posted here, or taken private?
>
>--
>Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
>XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
>2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366
>Berkeley, CA 94710-2219
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I recently aquired a Aquarius computer.
http://www.chez.com/samurai/ORDIS/aqua.htm
This computer is working and is in good condition. It can be yours for
$20 plus shipping costs. I don't have any documentation or software to
include--sorry. If anyone is interested in it please send me email.
--Alan
--
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M
Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
http://www.bright.net/~oajones
Nothing universal. Let me break this down by type:
CP/M and Related Formats:
Teledisk will read most CP/M and related formats on double-density (MFM)
diskettes. Standard IBM PC floppy controllers are physically unable to read
single-density (FM) formats (for some reason, even though the Western
Digital chip they used supported FM, they never connected the pin. The
Teledisk folks have some instructions to modify old IBM controllers).
Teledisk can also read CP/M and related formats on FM diskettes with an
appropriate floppy controller (e.g. CompatiCard, or modified IBM
controller). Some CompatiCard versions will also allow connection of 8"
drives to an IBM compatible. If you find a CompatiCard for sale, buy it.
Non-CP/M Related, Non-Apple Formats:
Teledisk does not read other FM formats that are not similar to CP/M (e.g.
TRS-80 Model 1). I'm not aware of a solution to read/write formats such as
TRS-80 Mod1, Coleco, Atari 8-bit, etc. Later TRS-80's like the Model 4/4P
can read TRSDOS diskettes and copy the files to CP/M format which could then
be read with Teledisk.
Apple II:
There is no physical way to read an Apple II diskette on IBM floppy drives.
There are 3 solutions: 1) Use a Trackstar 128 card in an IBM compatible; 2)
use a //e emulation card in a Macintosh LC series, then copy to PC format if
necessary; 3) Copy the 5.25" Apple DOS files to 3.5" ProDOS format on a //e
equipped with 3.5" and 5.25" drives, then use an old Apple File Exchange on
a Mac to read the ProDOS disk.
Macintosh:
All Macs with SuperDrive/FDHD drives can read/write PC format. To read Mac
dual-density format on the PC, you can either copy the files to PC format on
a newer Macintosh (be SURE to keep the disk write protected or the newer Mac
will automatically screw it up so it won't read properly on your old Mac!)
or you can use a Central Point Copy II Option Board Deluxe on an IBM
compatible.
Others:
Atari ST uses DOS format in the first place. Amiga can be read on the PC by
Amiga emulators. C64, I have no idea, but I know at least you could use a
C128 to copy files to CP/M format.
NOTE that if you don't want to actually access FILES, but just want to COPY
the disk, all you need is a Central Point Option Board in an IBM compatible.
I use my "Compaq Computer" (a.k.a. Portable I) with an Option Board to copy
any SD/DD format, including Apple II.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Eskin [mailto:maxeskin@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:36 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Universal drive
Is there a device that would allow _any_ disk, independently of
format, including Apple ][ disks, to be read? I know Teledisk can do
this for all conventional formats, but not Apple disks. It would be
nice to connect one of these and read the disk image into a file.
The main reason why I ask is for rescuing messed up floppies...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I hope I didn't mention this before...
I'm looking for any versions of a game called "Robot Odyssey". It was written
by The Learning Company and is a very unusual combination of an electronics
simulator and a 2-D adventure game.
The Apple ][ version sold especially well; there were three versions (1.0,
1.1, 2.0). I own an original copy of 1.0. I _had_ an original copy of 2.0
and sold it, and still feel really stupid. The only pirated copies are 1.0.
However, there were also versions for: the IBM PC (definitely exists), the
Tandy CoCo (almost definitely exists), and the Commodore 64 (probably exists).
TLC may have promised others (Atari?) which were never released.
I'm posting here because:
- The kind of geeks on this list would probably love this game. :)
- The Apple newsgroups are a waste of time.
- No one at the VCF had any idea what I was talking about.
- Maybe someone knows the authors of the program? The receptionists
at TLC are (obviously) clueless, but I've heard that even talking
to higher-up people there is a waste of time. (This is from a Web
site I found.) So if there's any chance of getting "inside" info
on the program, the authors are it.
Thanks,
-- Derek
< IIRC the Pro 325 uses an F11 as well, although I've not seen one.
The pro325 and 350 are the same machine save for the 325 is floppy only
and the 350 had floppy and hard disk.
< I am not suprised. Although there's a PDP11 CPU in there, the I/O system
< and interrupt structure is nothing like any other PDP11...
the primary thing was the memory mapped video. the PDT-11 also had
strange IO.
Allison
< > this for all conventional formats, but not Apple disks. It would be
< > nice to connect one of these and read the disk image into a file.
< > The main reason why I ask is for rescuing messed up floppies...
Apple used GCR coding for their drives and there are no commonly
available chips that do. In fact the apple does not use the traditional
floppy disk controller chips at all. The FDC logic on the Apple is
rather simple and the CPU provides the brains as a software FDC.
It was part of the idea of using software to replace hardware to make
the machine simpler and less expensive.
< PCs use a disk controller chip based on an NEC 765 design that can not
< read ANYTHING other than MFM (some can also do FM), with IBM 3740 style
Excuse me! That is patently incorrect! If you qualified that as *most
PC controllers cannot read some formats* that would be true.
The 765 and all of the chips based on the 765 core can read FM encoded
disks. It's not always possible with PC based designs as some are
hardware crippled (sloppy data sep circuits) and most of the PC bios code
is marginally brain dead.
However the 9266, 37c65 and 92c665 have been seen doing FM.
In the mean time my S100 card design and the compupro DISK1A both happly
read 8" SSSD (FM) disks and even single density 5.25 media.
< The Western Digital disk controller chips (179X, before they changed ove
< NEC style) could do a reasonably real track read of anything MFM
< regardless of sector header structure.
Try the 765 read diagnostic command. Hex 02 (fm) or 42 for MFM.
<They were used in TRS-80s and a LOT of machines OTHER THAN PC.
The TRS80 used the 1771 that was FM only.
the WD 177x or WD179x still cannot read an apple disk.
Allison
Opening mostly says it all...
I'm looking for an ASR 35 or 37 teletype. Offering an ASR-33 as all/part
trade.
So... if you have one that is just too darn big, and want something
smaller, (and are hopefully in the Oregon/Washington area or have a
shipper with a sense of humour) lets talk!
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
Just picked up a couple of terminals. A Teletype 3320 and (from
memory here) DECWriter III. Any information on the teletype would
be greatly appreciated (like how to interface to it, it has some small
centronics type connector on the end of the cable).
As for the DEC, I'll give it to anyone who wants to come pick it up
in the Central Texas area (Austin specifically). It's untested and the
best I'd be able to do anyway is to see if it powers up. I'll give it
about a week before I trash it unless someone can convince me
otherwise.
George
In a message dated 98-10-02 13:36:17 EDT, you write:
<< Answering an ad for a "Xerox 16/8 Computer," I found out
that the computer was actually an 820 II that was in possession of a Xerox
employee
prior to the seller. He (the seller) told me that the 820 was upgraded to
be "just like"
a 16/8, and judging by the haphazard looking innards (things jammmed into
slots, tape
holding things together, etc.), I think I believe him. I also got 3 or 4
binders for a 16/8
computer but all the pictures inside show a standard looking PC style
desktop case.
Which is the "real thang?" >>
The answer is both. Most 16/8s that I have seen are 820 IIs that have been
upgraded to 16/8s. This explains the tape and wires. At one time I had gotten
the upgrade kit myself. I never installed it because I found a factory 16/8.
It looked just like my 820 II with a different bezel.
When the IBM PC was introduced the market for these dropped considerably.
Xerox was selling into the business market at about a $2000 price point. It
was adapt or die. Xerox redesigned the case to look like the new PCs. Printed
new manuals. They died anyway The winds of change were blowing.
If you find one of the PC versions of the 16/8 save it. There are very few of
them. Most of Xerox's production run was remaindered. I saw them surplus for a
couple of years. I bet most of them were scrapped. I have never seen one with
the PC style case. I have manuals with pictures too.
You may be right on the drive interfaces although all the drive boxes use the
same 50 pin plug. I would have to do some research.
Paxton
This is too high for me, especially since I just got one for free yesterday
but it sounds like a nice package (with the separate monitor, if it's an
Osborne monitor.) Contact the seller, not me; I know nothing other than
what you see below.
-----------------------------------------
>From: "Don Gatterman" <dgent(a)gte.net>
>Subject: Re: Your Internet web page re the Osborne 01 / I still have
it,... Haven't gotten back to selling it.....
>
>It is the Blue-Gray model and I am asking $225.00 , or best offer, plus
>shipping if necessary. This would include the computer and printer, and
>separate monitor, all cords, software, and periodicals. Thanks for your
>note. Please feel free to call me at ( 360 ) 352-1883 if you hear of
>anyone who might be interested.
>
> Thanx Don
>
>
>PS, I am the sole original owner, and it is in excellent condition...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>>originally purchased through Sears and has a built-in Osborne add-on
>modem,
>>>Star Micronix printer w/ cable, separate monitor, Kleertex keyboard
>>>template for Osborne with Wordstar commands etc. Any interested party may
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
>The Professional 350 uses a PDP11 CPU (F11 or J11 depending on the
>machine). It runs P/OS (== cut-down RSX with a menu shell on top) or
>Venix. Oh, I think RT11 as well.
The PRO-350 used the F11 (Fonz) chip (same as in an 11/23). The
PRO-380 used the J11 (Jaws) chip (same as an 11/73).
Oh yeah - and RT-11 sure does run on them! We got it working on
the PRO back in 1980... You should have seen some of the things
we had to do to get it running, though...
Some PRO strangeness - it has a 64hz clock... so, for RT-11 to
emulate a 60hz clock, it counts 15 clock ticks and throws one
away... :-)
The PRO-380 doesn't have cache, but if you *turn off* the non-existent
cache (using the cache control register), the machine slows down to
11/23 speed!
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
< We appear to differ only on the definition of "PC".
Apparently we do. To me A PC is any machine fromthe IBM PC on including
clones.
< The PC disk controller, AS IMPLEMENTED BY IBM, did NOT provide access to
< all of the capabilities of the 765. In particular, FM can NOT be done
< with that board unless you make a few modifications, or replace it with
< any of the better designed after-market boards.
Tell me. I worked for NEC Microcomputers then and we sold IBM the 765.
We were in shock at what they had done as the standard design we used
that the time was far more capable.
< With the 37C65 and the like, the switch between MFM and FM can be done
< entirely in software, not requiring the extra hardware gate needed for
The only dirfference from 765 to 37c65 is that the 37c65 has ALL the logic
we'd wished IBM to use back then. My S100 contrtoller runs all the
possible fm/mfm formats and was a design that predates the IBM kluge.
< > In the mean time my S100 card design and the compupro DISK1A both happ
< > read 8" SSSD (FM) disks and even single density 5.25 media.
<
< An excellent choice for the task.
Both run the basic 765A
< The TRS-80 model I did indeed use the 1771 (FM). Data separation was po
< done, and there were after market boards to patch it.
I know I worked for them too. They were always looking at the cheapest
worst solution. Remember these are the same guys that brought
RAS*/CAS*/MUX across from the main console with bad enough timing that
the EI didn't work most of the time if it had ram.
< and so did the TRS-80 model 3 and 4. But Radio Shack made some WEIRD
< design decisions regarding use of Data Address Marks.
Deliberate attempt on their part to keep trsdos on their systems only
and part lack of knowledge.
< Absolutely correct. But they CAN read some MFM formats that do NOT have
< IBM style sector headers, unlike the 765 series.
Considering it was never designed for anything else it sorta begs the
question... Why blame the cow for soggy cereal?
The WD 17xx series FDCs were good chips but several things from that era
would scare off people using them... One, they did at times ship known bad
chips. Two, some of the support parts like the 1691 were late or didn't
work. Three, there werent intel so intel one they had the license and die
to sell the 765 as the 8272 would "kit" the FDC with the 8085 or 8088
to lock out WD and other competitors.
The other part was people often abused the 1771 such that even the 1791
couldn't read the disks!
< There were several add-on boards for PCs for dealing with Apple ][ disks
< including the Apple Turnover and Matchpoint. They installed between the
Or the trackstar128 which could not only read and write apple disks it
could also run apple software.
Allison
At 10:11 PM 10/1/98 EDT, Innfogra(a)aol.com wrote:
>The Xerox 16/8 is a desktop CPM Computer of the mid 1980s vintage. It has both
>8 and 16 bit processors in the cabinet. I believe the original computer was
>based on the UK Big Board design. The 16 bit processor is on a propriatory add
>on card. It runs CPM-80 & CPM-86. If I remember right it will run an early
>version of MS-DOS.
Yep, mine came with MS-DOS 2.1
>It has been years since I have run mine. My 2nd computer was a Xerox 820, an
>earlier model. I was delighted when I got a 16/8.
>
> It uses external drives which you may not have gotten. The disks availiable
>were dual 8" floppys, dual 5" floppys or a 8" Floppy and 8" HD. You could use
>only one set at a time. Brian of Emerald Microware (business no longer in
>existance) in Beaverton, Oregon made a data sharer that would alow you to hook
>up both 5 & 8" drives at the same time. He supported this family of computers
>for many years. It was a nice machine.
OK, I'm cinfused. Answering an ad for a "Xerox 16/8 Computer," I found out
that the computer was actually an 820 II that was in possession of a Xerox
employee
prior to the seller. He (the seller) told me that the 820 was upgraded to
be "just like"
a 16/8, and judging by the haphazard looking innards (things jammmed into
slots, tape
holding things together, etc.), I think I believe him. I also got 3 or 4
binders for a 16/8
computer but all the pictures inside show a standard looking PC style
desktop case.
Which is the "real thang?"
>There are two styles of keyboards, the original which is bulky and a low
>profile which uses a different ROM. The basic computer consists of three
>pieces, the Monitor/CPU, a keyboard and a drive cabinet.
>
>I have docs, drives, cpus and parts if you want to communicate with me
>directly.
Another note. The seller said that there were a number of different drive
interfaces available for this model and that if you plugged the wrong one
in it wouldn't be pretty. (I think it depended on which of the above combos
you got: fd/hd, fd/fd, etc.) Mine is a SASI interface, i think (8"FD/8"HD)
Les
For those in the N.W. Oregon area (or those that need an excuse to be
there!)
---
The 'n'th Annual Fall edition of the CP/M-UG Computer and Electronics Swap
Meet will occur on Saturday October 10th.
(n'th annual 'cause we lost track many years ago!)
It will be held in the lower level of the Senior Citizens Center on Omera,
just south of the Tigard City Hall on Hall Blvd.
As always, it's Free, Easy, and Non-Fattening! (except perhaps to your
wallet or garage, depening on your approach!) Bring your Junk, your
Treasures, and your Wallet! The only rule is... Leave Nothing Behind!
(NO garbage service!)
Address: 8815 S.W. Omera (Just south of Fanno Creek on Hall Blvd.)
Tigard, OR.
Hours: 0800 to 1500 or whenever the good stuff runs out!
(8am to 3pm for the layfolk)
Fees: No charge! (we pass the hat for contributions)
NOTE: Tailgating is encouraged! Some of the best deals are made in the
parking lot! (Warning: Oregon is entering the rainy season!)
A limited number of tables are available on site. Plenty of
space to bring your own. "Those who are late do not get fruit
cup!"
See you there!
---
For details, or directions (fairly easy to get to from I-5 or Oregon-8)
just drop me a note.
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
You know, I've been wanting to get one of these 'CatWeasels'
so I could make Commodore disks. I've never met anyone who
has purchased one of these. If any one here has, I'd like to hear
about it.
BTW-- DOes anyone know what a Central Point 'TransCopy 3'
board does? It's an ISA floppy interface, but that's about all I know
about it.
I picked up someplace, and I don't even know if there's software
for it . . . .
Jeff
On Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:04:03 -0700 Paul Kearns <paulk(a)microsoft.com>
writes:
>> Is there a device that would allow _any_ disk, independently of
>> format, including Apple ][ disks, to be read?
>>
>You can look at http://members.tripod.com/~apd2/catweasl.htm for an
>ISA card
>that'll (allegedly) read several MFM and GCR formats, including
>Commodore,
>Amiga, FAT, Atari, Macintosh, and Apple //.
>
>I haven't ever used one, so I can't comment on its reliability, but it
>might
>be worth investigating.
>
>Paul Kearns
>paulk(a)microsoft.com
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Dah. What could be more fun eh.
But seriously folks, I have too many email accounts and I consistently bore
this august group with my personal replies. Please excuse me once again. And
Dougie, you better be kidding...
IBM did similar thing at a graphics conference in the early 1980s. Over a
week they installed a 3090 on the show floor. I hear there is a time-lapse
video of the event.
OK, who's got something big enough, close enough, in working condition, and
knows how to do a professional install? We know you're out there.
>On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Unusual systems wrote:
>
>> Here's an idea for 3.0...get somebody close by with a working, large mini
>> configuration or small mainframe and have them spend all day assemblying and
>> wiring and booting it and demonstrating it the next day. A good full install
>> should day all at least.
>
>There goes Kevin trying to scare off collectors again! Let's demo both
>the install and the de-install and simulate a tie getting caught in the
>line printer, the 600 lb disk drive dropping on toes, a couple of
>high-voltage mishaps, and the disk-drive-as-fly-wheel effect as the truck
>drives away and then tips over when it tries to make a turn. :-)
>
>-- Doug
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems
+1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5
Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from
the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles.
Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers &
Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6
.
OK, it just booted. The only difference was I turned the VT420 off, and
the BA123 had been sitting powered off while I wrote my panic message. I
decided to give it one more try before crashing for the night in dispare.
I'm totally confused. Either it needed to sit for a few minutes, or the
terminal needed power cycled. Or maybe it was waiting for me to panic and
act foolish :^)
Argh! Ideas?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
OK, I had the PDP-11/23+ board in place, and the system loaded up. I was
testing out the memory boards I've got by swapping them in. It didn't seem
to like a pair of clearpoint memory boards I've got, and then I put in the
M8637-EC board, and NOTHING works. It won't even come up with the info on
the /23+ ROM. I've a very bad feeling about having put ECC RAM in it.
I went so far as to pull out all the boards, nothing. I swapped the /23+
with a /73 and still nothing! What on earth did I do? The diagnostic LEDs
on the /23+ are D1, D2, and D4 unfortunatly the manual I've got on the
board doesn't seem to explain what the LEDs mean.
It's as if I managed to fry the backplane, but that really doesn't make sense.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
If interested reply to Joseph Kimball instead of me.
Zane
>Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 10:40:14 -0600
>From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba(a)ihc.com>
>To: healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com
>Subject: Re: classic computers
>
>I am in Utah.
>I actually have two PCjr monitors, three PCjrs with 128k, and one sidecar
>with 512k, and one sidecar with a parallel port, and one sidecar with a
>voice synthesizer, and one external floppy drive.
>The floppies don't work properly, and will only occaisionally boot to DOS.
>- Joseph
>
>- Joseph Kimball
>IHC Health Plans
>Service Desk
>
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
>Xref: world alt.sys.pdp11:5205
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>From: "Eric" <evb(a)citx.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
>Subject: pdp11/44 free to good home in TX
>Date: 2 Oct 1998 02:01:12 GMT
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11/44 CPU
TS11 tape drive
(2) RK07 disk units
many rk07 packs
decwriterII
vt100 terminal
manuals, service history
unit operational at de-installation
deinstalled from a school
30 days and it's going to the metal scrapyard, would rather see her have a
good home.
It would have to be PC-DOS 2.10. Version 2.11 was MS-DOS i think. I have a
copy of 2.10 on the shelf with the book. I don't know anything about PC Jrs
though, with the exception of a thrift store here in Portland, OR that has a
monitor for one.
If you are interested in the SW contact me directly. I was actually looking
for DOS 1.XX to see if I might have it. I don't but I ran across the book set
marked 1.01 for the 3270 PC. I got excited but what was inside was PD-DOS 3.0.
Oh well, such is life. I have lots of versions of PC-DOS 3.0 & 3.1, and a
couple of MS-DOS 2.11 for other computers that I am interested in unloading.
Any interest out there.
Paxton
Whoagiii(a)aol.com
Nice going ace!
Here's an idea for 3.0...get somebody close by with a working, large mini
configuration or small mainframe and have them spend all day assemblying and
wiring and booting it and demonstrating it the next day. A good full install
should day all at least.
>On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Pete Joules wrote:
>
>> There was write up of the VCF in todays Guardian, it included a picture
>> of an Altair and a wooden Apple, along with an account of Ray Holt's
>> talk.
>
>Oh good! Is there a pointer to this article on the web? If not, could
>you PLEASE transcribe it for me and e-mail it along? (PS. the wooden
>Apple would probably be the Apple 1).
>
>> It also says the it was organised by "...Sam Ismail, a goateed,
>> hyperactive young programmer who started his own collection of 200
>> machines 11 years ago...". Is this a fair description Sam? ;-)
>
>Pretty much. Except it understates the total number of machines in my
>collection :)
>
>> PS Congratulations, Sam, on what seems to have been a very sucessful
>> event.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
> [Last web site update: 09/21/98]
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems
+1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5
Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from
the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles.
Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers &
Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6
.
Hi Joe;
Nice find.
Almost any NEC multisync momitor will work. There is a adapter that goes from
9 pin to apple for the older multisync monitors and another 15 pin to Apple
for later monitors. I can get them here in Portland, Oregon at Oregon
Electronics. You should be able to find a cable house in your neighborhood
that has the adapter or a cable that would work. Other monitors like the Sony
should work also.
Paxton
The Xerox 16/8 is a desktop CPM Computer of the mid 1980s vintage. It has both
8 and 16 bit processors in the cabinet. I believe the original computer was
based on the UK Big Board design. The 16 bit processor is on a propriatory add
on card. It runs CPM-80 & CPM-86. If I remember right it will run an early
version of MS-DOS.
It has been years since I have run mine. My 2nd computer was a Xerox 820, an
earlier model. I was delighted when I got a 16/8.
It uses external drives which you may not have gotten. The disks availiable
were dual 8" floppys, dual 5" floppys or a 8" Floppy and 8" HD. You could use
only one set at a time. Brian of Emerald Microware (business no longer in
existance) in Beaverton, Oregon made a data sharer that would alow you to hook
up both 5 & 8" drives at the same time. He supported this family of computers
for many years. It was a nice machine.
There are two styles of keyboards, the original which is bulky and a low
profile which uses a different ROM. The basic computer consists of three
pieces, the Monitor/CPU, a keyboard and a drive cabinet.
I have docs, drives, cpus and parts if you want to communicate with me
directly.
Paxton
Whoagiii(a)aol.com
In a message dated 10/1/98 9:33:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wpe101(a)banet.net
writes:
> Hello Aaron, welcome to the list.. I dealt with a PC jr a few years ago,
> and iirr, it didn't boot itself, you had to insert a dos (gawd help me
> what version) floppy to get it to boot. No clue as to whether that's the
> problem, but I'd suggest you try it.
it's just like a standard pc in that if you have a boot floppy, preferably dos
2.1, it should load. or, if a cart is in one of the two front slots, it should
load off of that. the disk drive in it is the same as the slim height floppy
drives the portable pc used.
david
If anyone needs a couple of memory boards for their MicroVAX, here's a
fellow offering a couple of 1 meggers dirt cheap.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On 1 Oct 1998 22:42:23 GMT, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote:
>>From: neil(a)skatter.usask.ca (Neil Johnson)
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro
>>Subject: 1 Meg uVax memory boards $10
>>Date: 1 Oct 1998 22:42:23 GMT
>>Organization: University of Saskatchewan
>>Lines: 13
>>Message-ID: <6v10gf$84k$1(a)tribune.usask.ca>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: hydrus.usask.ca
>>X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!in5.uu.net!newsfeed.xcom.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!192.26.210.166!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!tribune.usask.ca!not-for-mail
>>
>>I have two M7607 memory boards for sale. I believe they are
>>1 Meg boards for a microVax. They have a connector near the
>>handles for data/control signals; my understanding is that
>>they are unusable for a normal PDP11 Qbus system.
>>
>>Asking $10.00 each or $10.00 for two -- I just want to
>>avoid throwing them out, and also want it to be worth my while
>>to package them up. Sorry, no documentation available.
>>
>>
>>Neil
>>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) jps [dot] net
Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin
"...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object,
event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
I picked up an Apple Macintosh IIci today. It has a board in it marked
"Orange 386". It was made by Orange Micro has a 386 CPU and slots for SIMM
memory boards. Is anyone familar with this? I don't have an Apple
monitor so I can't power it up and test it.
Joe
I believe the DOS version was PC-DOS 2.11. From reading previous posts on
this list, and other places, the floppy drive in the PCjr was fairly
flimsy, so if may be a "standard" problem.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Will Emerson <wpe101(a)banet.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: New to the list
> Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 9:26 PM
>
> Hello Aaron, welcome to the list.. I dealt with a PC jr a few years ago,
> and iirr, it didn't boot itself, you had to insert a dos (gawd help me
> what version) floppy to get it to boot. No clue as to whether that's the
> problem, but I'd suggest you try it. No guarantees, but, if you do need
> one, I've got a steel box at work with a bunch of old floppies in it,
> and I'll be happy to check it, and see if I still have a boot floppy
> in there.. Oh, also, fwiw, the PC jr I played with, the floppy drive
> was kind of "iffy" as to functioning properly, hopefully a
> characteristic
> local to the machine I was dealing with..
>
> Will
It is IBM's clone of the PC/AT with a few exceptions.
Hmm, I'm sure you don't mean "IBM's clone of the PC/AT", since IBM could
hardly clone their own product. The XT-286 is actually a warmed-over PC-XT
motherboard design, adapted to use the 80286 CPU. It was a product
positioned in between the XT and the AT in IBM's lineup.
3. Some AT boards will not fit into it.
Actually, no AT boards will fit into it. Although it used the AT's 286 CPU,
it retained the XT's 8-bit bus, and was limited to 640K RAM (no 16-bit RAM
expansion available). In a sense, you can almost think of it as a "286SX",
since it is largely analogous to the 386SX in that it had a bus half the
width of the CPU internal core (although I'm not sure whether the
motherboard RAM was 8- or 16-bit). The XT-286 failed, not just because of
its limited expansion versus the AT, but due to competition from the Turbo
XT (8-10MHz 8088/NECV20) market, which had similar performance.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Ehrich [mailto:g@ehrich.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 6:23 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: RE: IBM XT286
>Alas the only information I have on the XT-286 is the circuit diagrams.
>It's pretty much an electronic 'clone' of the PC/AT in a different case.
>I also seem to remember that the ROM BIOS is almost identical to the
>later AT BIOS.
I have an XT/286 in a box and used it for many years.
It is IBM's clone of the PC/AT with a few exceptions.
1. It uses an XT case
2 It is 6mhz with 0 (zero) wait states.
3. Some AT boards will not fit into it.
Due to the zero wait states it is faster than other 6mhz AT's that do
have wait states.
gene@ehrich
http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
Computer & Video Game Garage Sale
It's a PC compatibility card, similar to those Apple used to sell. Orange
Micro is still around, currently selling Pentium cards.
http://www.orangemicro.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 9:47 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Apple <> Orange 386?
I picked up an Apple Macintosh IIci today. It has a board in it marked
"Orange 386". It was made by Orange Micro has a 386 CPU and slots for SIMM
memory boards. Is anyone familar with this? I don't have an Apple
monitor so I can't power it up and test it.
Joe
On Oct 1, 17:08, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> Subject: Re: Universal drive
> ::
> ::Is there a device that would allow _any_ disk, independently of
> ::format, including Apple ][ disks, to be read? I know Teledisk can do
> ::this for all conventional formats, but not Apple disks. It would be
> ::nice to connect one of these and read the disk image into a file.
> ::The main reason why I ask is for rescuing messed up floppies...
> ::
>
> The closest thing to this I can think of would be a Catweasel controller,
> but they are not for the faint of heart or ignorant of disk format. They
> are also rather difficult to find. Try searching on AltaVista; you may
> luck out and find one for sale. At least in the Commodore world, we've
been
> successful at reading 64 disks on a PC with a Catweasal-enhanced drive.
I know someone at Edinburgh who was trying to persuade a Catweasel
controller to read/write unusual formats, but last I heard he was making
heavy weather of it. Here's the Catweasel URL:
http://members.tripod.com/~apd2/catweasl.htm
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
I have recently came into position of an old Xerox computer that I
really do not know much about and was wondering if anyone out there
would be able to send me via e-mail any info that they may have on it.
The computer works and all but all that comes up is something about
tables and something about invalid drives. If anyone out there has any
info on this computer I would greatly appreciate it.
> Is there a device that would allow _any_ disk, independently of
> format, including Apple ][ disks, to be read?
>
You can look at http://members.tripod.com/~apd2/catweasl.htm for an ISA card
that'll (allegedly) read several MFM and GCR formats, including Commodore,
Amiga, FAT, Atari, Macintosh, and Apple //.
I haven't ever used one, so I can't comment on its reliability, but it might
be worth investigating.
Paul Kearns
paulk(a)microsoft.com
At 12:55 PM 01-10-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote:
>Its a very nice 286 machine, but what a pitiful computer considering it
>came from DEC.
Of course you have to realize that this is an NC (in the modern sense). A
VAXmate worked really well in a network environment with a VAX at the far
end running Pathworks. I remember setting one up in 1987 and being
impressed with what you could achieve. It was really nice being able to
store PC data on our VAX which we backed up properly!
Of course, like DECs other NC (the Multia) they were ahead of the market
and couldn't sell them to save themselves :-(
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
>Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> wrote:
>> To the best of my knowledge, there was no Windows 1.00. As I recall, we
>> released 1.03 as the first version.
>
>MSKB article ID Q32905 "Windows Version History" makes reference to
>Version 1.01 dated 11/85 (it is the first version listed), followed by
>1.03 dated 8/86.
>
That fits. I have a copy of 1.02, the "International Version" with files
dated 1/86.
Hans Olminkhof
Ah, I got the answer... there was a 1.01 with a limited release in the US
only, I still have yet to get confirmation over whether there was a retail
store package or whether it was bundled only. 1.03 was indeed the first
multinational release about 9 months later.
I'm sure there wasn't a 1.00, although 1.01 packages may have carried "1.0"
markings.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lwalker@mail.interlog.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 9:01 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: als for it
On 30 Sep 98 at 9:19, Kai Kaltenbach wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge, there was no Windows 1.00. As I recall, we
> released 1.03 as the first version.
>
> 1.03 was available only on 360K 5 1/4" and had no VGA support. 1.04 was
the
> same as 1.03 except it was available only on 720K 3 1/2" and supported the
> PS/2 _exclusively_.
>
> Kai
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 8:16 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Windows 1.0?
>
> Someone posted recently that they have the originals (or copies) of
> Windows 1.0? Could you please get in touch with me?
>
> Sam Alternate e-mail:
Sorry Kai, I usually tend to take your MS statements as gospel but in this
case I've just been looking at the flash page and desktop of Windows 1.01
copyrighted 1984 and the files are dated 11-15-85. Unless this was a pirated
version smuggled out of MS or an elaborate put-on it must be the first
issue. It has a somewhat-Norton Commander style desktop but has most of
the utilities of the later version - notepad, write, calendar ,etc. and a
pif-editor and win.ini. It comes on 5 360k disks with a set-up program that
builds a small Win.com and an much larger overlay binarie. As you mention it
doesn't support VGA and the readme file has a lot of references to problems
with AboveBoard (the Intel mem-expansion card). I've had it for a short
while
and just now installed it on an 8580 PS2 running DRDOS. While I can get the
desktop the utilities hang with the familiar hourglass.
I just tried it on my 5150 which has an Inboard card and uses the A20
handler but only 1meg memory and also heavily configured and with Dos 5. It
crashed leaving me at the prompt. Using my favorite shell CMFiler got me to
a blank screen before crashing . Likely memory related.
I'm going to try it on one of my 286s' using an earlier dos and with one
of
1.01's memory handlers emm.at or emm.xt (dated 7-30-85) in autoexec. I have
of course no manual.
I do run on, sorry.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
< I just picked one of these up with the base station that houses a Seagat
< ST-251 40 meg hard drive with DOS 6.20 installed! Wacky. It also has
< 5.25" floppy drive vertically oriented next to the CRT.
The disk box was an afterthought. It was mostly for modems and other add
ons. Their big feature was a LANCE chip for eithernet running PCSA (later
called pathworks) networking to vaxen via decnet/lat protocals.
< Its a very nice 286 machine, but what a pitiful computer considering it
< came from DEC.
Since it's primarly aim was a diskless dos workstation off of vaxen and
dec was still trying to sort out if they were committed to PCs at all it
was a rather interesting machine.
Allison
The 34-pin control cable for ST-506 interfaces can either have a twist
or be straight through where you need to alter the HDD drive selects
accordingly.
The 34-pin control cable used on ST-506 interfaces doesn't care
whether it lives in a PC PC/XT or PC/AT environment.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: ESDI Cabling
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 10/1/98 3:55 PM
> The only thing in PCs I know of that use a twist cable is Floppies.
The AT MFM disk control cable (for ST506-like hard disks) certainly has a
twist in it. This twist swaps over 2 of the drive select lines between
the 2 drives, so they can both be set to the same drive number. I will
have to get the manual if you want the exact details.
I think the XT control cable does as well. I have an XT somewhere with 2
ST412 drives (in the 5161 expanasion box) but I'd have to dig it out to
check if the cable has the twist.
>
> Allison
>
>
-tony
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From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ESDI Cabling
In-Reply-To: <199810010124.AA26688(a)world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at
Sep 30, 98 09:24:50 pm
Content-Type: text
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
< Is it possible to make regular Mouse-System-Clone bus mouse or Sun Mice
< work on a DEC Vaxstation 3100 -- or does anyone have a source of
< the DEC mice?
I don't think so.
Allison
< And of course DECsystems might be 36 bit (DECsystem-10 for example), 32
< (DECsystem 5500) or something else (wasn't there a DECsystem based on
< either an -8
< or -11? for word processing). I also seem to recall that there were Inte
< based DECstations too....
There were two different DEC systems for word processing:
WPS 100 and 200 series were PDP-8E or 8A cpus
WPS78 6100 CMOS version of PDP-8
DECmate later version of the CMOS based word procesors using the 6120
version of the CMOS PDP-8 on a chip.
A possibly incomplete list of DEC systems and what the cpu was used...
more or less. These are all "chip" based so it leaves out the PDP-1
through 15 series machines.
DECMATE series 6120 processor (a PDP8 in CMOS)
VAXmate Intel 80286 oriented as diskless PC workstation for vaxen.
DECstation MIPS series
Rainbow 8088/z80
Pro3xx PDP-11 (f11 or J11 chips)
PDT-11 series KDA11 (LSI-11 series)
Falcon T-11 series pdp-11 chip
Vt180 (AKA Robin) Z80
MicroVAX
VAXstation
VAXserver These are VAX systems based on Microvax, CVAX, NVAX and
later 32bit VAX based chips.
Alpha 64bit archetecture and the chip series based on it.
Allison
This message was supposed to have gotten here a while ago, but it never did.
Myself and a few other individuals are actively working on a KL-10 emulation.
The project is named e10, and is 3.99% finished. I'm busy confusing myself
with 36-bit math right now. Anyway, help would be nice to complete this
fscker. It's being written in C for Unix platforms, it's under the GPL.
Please don't email me and tell me how stupid this is, or how I'm never
going to finish, I'm trying my damndest to maintain the Never-Give-Up
attitude. I plan to be winning by Y2K. Anyway, does anyone want to help out?
I generated a web page (Using vi, of course...) at bony.umtec.com, and
the current source can be had from there via FTP in /pub/ka10/*.
Any help at all would be appreciated.
-------
< Allison, just how compatable were the Rainbow and Decmate ll.
With what? if each other the answer is not at all. The Rainbow
was sorta PC(ish) using z80 and 8088. The DECMATE used a PDP-8
cpu reduced to a chip. Differences, PDP-8 is a 12bit machine
and the other two should be familiar.
< I have a Decmatell Word Processing 2 book manual no disks and
< another Decmate Hardware Configuration Manual with a System
< Test Disk and a system overview disk which I have viewed on my
< "Bow. From all the diagrams they were identical in appearance and
< seemed to have used the same keyboard and monitor. IIRC from
< the R'bow fido docs I downloaded from the Finnish site the Bow
< could use SCO UNIX (?) Was the 'bow able to access the mini's ?
The used a similar box, same Floppy (RX50), if it was installed the
same 5/10mb hard disks, monitor and keyboard as those were all coperate
standards for that era. other wise they were three different machines
(the pro350 was similar style and peripherals).
Allison
Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge, there was no Windows 1.00. As I recall, we
> released 1.03 as the first version.
MSKB article ID Q32905 "Windows Version History" makes reference to
Version 1.01 dated 11/85 (it is the first version listed), followed by
1.03 dated 8/86.
-Frank McConnell
< The only PC ESDI controllers I have ever found all have 2 data cable
< connectors (20 pin on the card), which can each connect to one drive onl
< same as MFM. In fact right now I can't think of any differences between
< and MFM cabling for PC's. Not sure about the twist details though.
EDSI does not generally use the twist unless that was a PC hack. The
Ultrastor EDSI controllers I hav elaying around use the esact cabling
as a pair of MFM drive on a WD 1003/5/6 controller.
The only thing in PCs I know of that use a twist cable is Floppies.
Allison
Is it possible to make regular Mouse-System-Clone bus mouse or Sun Mice
work on a DEC Vaxstation 3100 -- or does anyone have a source of
the DEC mice?
Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com |
| Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in |
| a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
ESDI cabling is definitely the ST506/412 interface used on old MFM
(e.g. Seagate ST-225) or RLL (e.g. Seagate ST-238). If the 34-pin
control cable is straight through (without the twist) select drive 0
if the selection is 0 and 1. If the selection is drive 1 and 2, select
drive 1 (nomenclature varies among manufacturers). Ensure the
terminating resistors are installed or you are asking for trouble.
If the 34-pin control cable has a twist and you have only one drive
attached to the end of the cable with the twist, use drive select 1 if
your drive nomenclature is 0 and 1. If the drive select nomenclature
is 1 and 2, select drive 2 and make certain you have the terminating
resistors installed.
Two drive scenario:
34-pin control cable with twist, drive at end of cable with twist use
drive select 1 if drive has 0 and 1 as drive selects or 2 if using 1
and 2 drive selects and again ensure the terminating resistors are
installed in this drive. The drive in the middle of chain should use
drive select 1 if drive has 0 and 1 as drive selects or 2 if using 1
and 2 drive selects (yes, use the same drive select as the C: drive
attached to the end of the cable) and make certain the terminating
resistors are removed from this drive which will be seen as D: drive.
If the 34-pin cable has no twist, C: drive is set for 0 (if drive
selects are 0 and 1) or 1 (if drive selects are 1 and 2) and
connected at the end of the cable with the terminating resistors
installed; D: drive is set for 1 (if using drive selects 0 and 1) or 2
(if using drive select 1 and 2), connected in the middle of the chain
and must have the terminating resistors removed.
Marty
Yes, I've seen a 1.01, but I don't think it was a retail version (perhaps
some limited bundle with an OEM computer). I'll ask our Archives.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lwalker@mail.interlog.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 9:01 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: als for it
On 30 Sep 98 at 9:19, Kai Kaltenbach wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge, there was no Windows 1.00. As I recall, we
> released 1.03 as the first version.
>
> 1.03 was available only on 360K 5 1/4" and had no VGA support. 1.04 was
the
> same as 1.03 except it was available only on 720K 3 1/2" and supported the
> PS/2 _exclusively_.
>
> Kai
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 8:16 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Windows 1.0?
>
> Someone posted recently that they have the originals (or copies) of
> Windows 1.0? Could you please get in touch with me?
>
> Sam Alternate e-mail:
Sorry Kai, I usually tend to take your MS statements as gospel but in this
case I've just been looking at the flash page and desktop of Windows 1.01
copyrighted 1984 and the files are dated 11-15-85. Unless this was a pirated
version smuggled out of MS or an elaborate put-on it must be the first
issue. It has a somewhat-Norton Commander style desktop but has most of
the utilities of the later version - notepad, write, calendar ,etc. and a
pif-editor and win.ini. It comes on 5 360k disks with a set-up program that
builds a small Win.com and an much larger overlay binarie. As you mention it
doesn't support VGA and the readme file has a lot of references to problems
with AboveBoard (the Intel mem-expansion card). I've had it for a short
while
and just now installed it on an 8580 PS2 running DRDOS. While I can get the
desktop the utilities hang with the familiar hourglass.
I just tried it on my 5150 which has an Inboard card and uses the A20
handler but only 1meg memory and also heavily configured and with Dos 5. It
crashed leaving me at the prompt. Using my favorite shell CMFiler got me to
a blank screen before crashing . Likely memory related.
I'm going to try it on one of my 286s' using an earlier dos and with one
of
1.01's memory handlers emm.at or emm.xt (dated 7-30-85) in autoexec. I have
of course no manual.
I do run on, sorry.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
In trying to finf info re my Wang , Wang Users Group turned up empty, so
I did a general search on "Wang". What fun. I found out there's a hell of a lot
more Wangs than Jones out there. And a good proportion of them are scientists.
Wangs like to display themselves and one even had pictures of his wife and
his sister on his page.
Among the Wangs on display were Joy C Wang, Junping Wang, Leiping Wang,
Linping Wang and the saddest, Weiping Wang (maybe a pseudonym for linping)
There was Gang Wang and Wang Man but the most impressive Wang was :
Wang Jinrey a fighting philosopher
Nationality China
Fighting Style shin-irokugoken
Age 84 Height 165cm Weight 56kg
Bloodtype B
I was especially impressed that they included this fighting philosophers blood
type.
I also found out that bin wang wasn't a binary file and wang fan wasn't a
computer enthusiasts group.
There was also a geographical perspective with the Phuket jewelry shop in Wang
Talang Siam , the King Wang Hotel in Taiwan, and the Wang Centre for the
Performance Arts in Boston.
There's also a Wang differential geometrical theorum used wildly by
scientists.
Then I dicovered I could finger wang@risc and after 60 Lycos pages of URLs
with nary an end in site ,my energy petered out I was getting giddy and
laughing hysterically at every Wang thang . There's just too damn many Wangs
out there and I exited without finding any references to my Wang..
On a less humorous note I did find a UK source for Wang
and NEC as well as other laptop batteries. MDS Batteries.
Likely pricey to ship them this side of the pond but they did
have some specs so maybe one could make yer'own.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
uh, im still trying to decide how this relates to classiccmp...
In a message dated 10/1/98 7:45:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com writes:
<< Then I dicovered I could finger wang@risc and after 60 Lycos pages of URLs
with nary an end in site ,my energy petered out I was getting giddy and
laughing hysterically at every Wang thang . There's just too damn many Wangs
out there and I exited without finding any references to my Wang.. >>
>If the case says VAXanything or MicroVAX it's VAX. If it's an Alpha
>it would say Alphamumble. Systems with the DECmumble are MIPS.
Systems with 'DECstation mumble' should be MIPS, but if it
says 'DEC nnnn' then it may well be an Alpha... for example, I
have a DEC 3000/400 in my office.. this is an Alpha.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Is anyone in dire need of one of these? I was bulldozing through my office
today and ran across this one lonely processor sitting in a drawer.
Please respond to me directly...
Aaron
Sometime in the mid-seventies, Queen Elizabeth became the first monarch to
send an email. Does anyone know the year, to whom she sent it, and what the
circumstances were?
R.
--
Warbaby
The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire.
http://www.warbaby.com
The MonkeyPool
WebSite Content Development
http://www.monkeypool.com
Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.
Good grief what a week this has been, but I finally got the PDP-11 I'm
trying to put together to boot off of a ESDI harddrive. Not the processor
or disk controller I was expecting, for all that goes not the version of
RSX-11M I was expecting, but it's up and running.
At the moment it is running a PDP-11/23+ instead of the /73, has a RLV12 in
it, and is missing basically all the boards. However, tomorrow I'm hoping
to basically get the hardware back into the configuration that I want.
I had two problems. First, for some reason I couldn't get RSX11M to like
the Webster WQESD controller I was trying to use, so I switched to a Emulex
QD21, and was able to load the TK50 onto the Harddrive. But it wouldn't
boot once I got that done last night. Foolish me thinking it wasn't
bootable drug a RL02 drive and controller into the house tonite :^( Turns
out that I'd gotten the DIP switches mixed up <ARGHHH> Once I had them
right (and the system totally rearranged) it booted off DU0: despite my
wanting to go from DL0: :^)
If work doesn't interfere tomorrow night, I'm going to be having some fun
with this system :^)
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
To the best of my knowledge, there was no Windows 1.00. As I recall, we
released 1.03 as the first version.
1.03 was available only on 360K 5 1/4" and had no VGA support. 1.04 was the
same as 1.03 except it was available only on 720K 3 1/2" and supported the
PS/2 _exclusively_.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 8:16 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Windows 1.0?
Someone posted recently that they have the originals (or copies) of
Windows 1.0? Could you please get in touch with me?
Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
> Hi Jason:
>
> This is just a guess, but I think that the 'blown capacitor' problem is
> directly related to the 'TYCO' power supply. It's output IS going to be
> _very_ noisy, when compared to computer grade supplies. The peak voltage
> is probably what's killing things. I would look for an 18v supply.
>
> Chuck
That's what I thought. I have 2 of the WANG WLTC's (that's why I'm trading
one). The other one has worked fine for about 1 year (and longer with the
previous owner) with the Tyco supply. The other keeps blowing. I think
it's being caused by some weak components elsewhere in the circuit (some of
the other caps may be beginning to deteriorate).
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
PS>> Your date is 8 months off - it's set for January 30 1998.
> There is, however, a problem with the internal (regulating/switching)
< > supply. It runs the computer, but keeps blowing a capacitor. It als
< > needs an external P/S and battery. The battery is 10 sub-cells (with
< > resistor - I have a schematic). A Tyco 20VDC racing transformer (the
< > for the little car/track sets) will run it.
< This is just a guess, but I think that the 'blown capacitor' problem is
< directly related to the 'TYCO' power supply. It's output IS going to be
< _very_ noisy, when compared to computer grade supplies. The peak voltag
< is probably what's killing things. I would look for an 18v supply.
<
< Chuck
Good point. the answer is simple... What is te voltage rating of the
failed cap? Likely the tyco power far exceeds the required voltage.
Allison
Can someone help this person out? If so reply directly to her at
the address below.
Thanks.
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: "AUDREY" <kutter(a)arn.net>
Subject: RE: IBM XT286
Date sent: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:17:22 -0500
I hope you can help me with my problem ,as you can see I have
this old
machine . I had to replace the battery and now I can't bring
anything up.
I can't even get the to the C: prompt. This one has a Conner hard
drive,
this is the information on the drive : Conner,CP 30064H ACO3286
CP30064H
9027 CMO2322 3GT 2.55 ML2 T ALR POWERFLEX FLYER HARD
DRIVE:60MB TYPE:6
S/N0361634. I don't have a manual or a systems disk for this
machine.
Every time I try to run setup this is the message I get back : device
I/O
error I get this message with every thing iI try. If you have a manual
or
a systems disk can you make a copy and I will buy them from you.
If you
can help me set this thing up will you send the information in a
way a 55
year old granny can understand . I want my grandson to learn on it.
I'm
sorry this is so long .
Thank You,
Audrey
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com
>The only PC ESDI controllers I have ever found all have 2 data cable
>connectors (20 pin on the card), which can each connect to one drive
>only, same as MFM. In fact right now I can't think of any differences
>between ESDI and MFM cabling for PC's. Not sure about the twist details
>though.
I have one of the Andromeda ESDC controllers for qbus pdp-11s, and it
has four connectors on it. One wide one (like the wide MFM one) and
three of the narrow ones. According to the documentation I have, one
could attach up to three drives to the one controller, possibly up
to six with some sort of adapter... (It also support floppies with
an adapter, but I don't have that)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Questions came up last week about how much power a DECsystem-1090 CPU (KL10)
consumes, and how the power supply works. Tony Duell suggested that the KL10
might not consume any more power than a big PDP-11/45 system; I disagreed.
My previous description of the power system was not entirely accurate, so I've
dug out some technical documentation, including the manual "Power System
(1080/1090) Interface Description", part number EK-PWR1-ID-002, dated March
1977.
The KL10 CPU cabinet consists of three bays. In a 1080 or 1090, the middle
bay contains the main CPU card cage, which has 47 extended hex modules full
of ECL logic.
The left bay (as viewed from the front) contains an I/O card cage containing
up to 50 extended hex modules full of TTL for the RH20 Massbus channels, DTE20
front-end interfaces, DMA20 memory bus interface, and DIA20 I/O bus interface.
The right bay contains a PDP-11/40 front end processor, a TU56 dual DECtape
transport, and a TC11 DECtape control.
Note that this does not include any memory or peripherals necessary to
make a complete system. I am going to describe only the power requirements
of the CPU cabinet.
All KL10 models require three-phase power. The KL10-AA and KL10-BA models
operate on three phases of 90-132 VAC 60 Hz (208 VAC nominal phase-to-phase)
The KL10-AB and KL10-BB operate on three phases of 180-264 VAC 50 Hz (416V
nominal phase-to-phase). Total input power is specified as 12.6 kW typical
for a basic system; a real-world configuration would have more DTE20 and
RH20 units, so it would consume more power.
Needless to say, the power supplies in the KL10 are not power factor
corrected. The 863 three-phase power control has a 75A main circuit breaker.
Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the DECsystem-10 Site Preparation Guide,
so I don't know what the actual specifications for peak current per phase
are.
With the exception of the power supply for the main CPU cage and the cooling
fans for that bay, most of the machine actually operates on single phase
power. The various fans and power supplies are distributed between the
phases to balance the load.
The CPU cage fans operate between two phases (208V) in the -AA and -BA models,
and between one phase and neutral (240V) in the -AB and -BB models.
The power supply for the ECL consists of an H760A or H760B raw power supply
(depending on the line voltage), a 70-09475 capacitor assembly, and an H761
regulated series pass assembly.
The H760A/B contains three ferroresonant transformers with primaries wired in
a three-phase delta. The secondaries are center-tapped and wired with
half-wave bridge rectifiers. The output is -12V at 490A. The diodes are
mounted to a massive heat sink with its own fans.
The capacitor assembly consists of thirteen 0.3F capacitors in parallel for
a total capacitance of 3.9F. The output under full load is -11V+-10%.
In the event of a power failure, this is sufficient to allow a hold time
of 20 ms before the voltage drops below -7.5V.
The H761 regulated series pass assembly consists of 13 linear regulators.
Nine have -5.2V 35A outputs for the ECL main power, and four have -2V 35A
outputs for ECL termination. There is room for a 14th linear regulator
which is normally not installed.
The maximum load for the CPU card cage is thus (9*5.2V*35A)+(4*2.0V*35A), or
1918W. At that load, the input power required by the power supply is
over 5460W. This is less than 35% efficiency.
Of course, the ECL power supply is nowhere near the whole story.
The following additional power supplies are in the system:
quant model output use
----- ----- ------ --------------
1 H720 +5, -15 DECtape system
1 H725
1 H7420 AC power supply PDP-11/40
3 H744 +5
1 H745 -15
1 H754 +20, -5
1 H732 0-20VDC margin check
1 783-C +10, -15
1 H7420 AC power supply
1 H744 +5V CPU cage TTL supply
2 H744 +5V I/O cage DTE20 TTL supply
1 H744 +5V I/O cage RH20 TTL supply
1 H7420 AC power supply
4 H744 +5V I/O cage RH20 TTL supply
1 H7420 AC power supply
1 H770 +15V air flow sensors
1 H745 -15V I/O cage DIA20/DMA20
3 H744 +5 I/O cage DIA20/DMA20 TTL supply
I have not found any figures for typical current used by the various
subsystems. However, the ratings of the regulators are:
H720 5V 22A, -15V 10A, unregulated -22V 1A, unregulated +8V 1.5A
(unregulated outputs not used in KL10)
H732 0-20V 5A
H744 5V 25A
H745 -15V 10A
H754 +20V 8A and -5V 1A
H770 +15V 10A
DEC didn't waste any more money on regulators than necessary, so it is
a safe assumption that a fully configured system will use most of the
available DC power, which for just the +5V supplies alone is 1860W.
Fortunately the power supplies used with the H7420s are switchers, so they
are probably at least 65% efficient.
Eric
>> ESDI cables for PC's may or may not have a twist. The drive has a jumper
>> (usually marked drive 1 or 2) that must be set accordingly.
>
>I was under the impression that ESDI used 3 binary-encoded lines to
>select up to 8 drives on the same cable, and that there was no way just
>by swithing them round to have all the drives set to the same number.
>Certainly the ESDI drive I've just picked up has 3 binary-encoded
>selection links on the logic board. Of course for the special case of
>drive 1 and drive 2 (although not drive 0 and drive 1) you can get away
>with swapping over bits 0 and 1.
The only PC ESDI controllers I have ever found all have 2 data cable
connectors (20 pin on the card), which can each connect to one drive only,
same as MFM. In fact right now I can't think of any differences between ESDI
and MFM cabling for PC's. Not sure about the twist details though.
I contacted a friend of mine that that is a salesman for IBM and asked him
if he knew where any IBM 1130s might be found. Here's his reply:
>
>Joe,
>Sorry it took so long to reply....I was in Vegas and didn't get back until
>yesterday. It was the annual World Gaming Congress meeting...the largest
>gaming convention in the industry.
>
>Well...I got to admint....I've never even heard of an 1130!! I had to do
>some research to find out what it was! from what I can decuce..this thing
>dates back to the mid 60's.!! Sorry but the only place I can think he might
>find one is a museum!
Joe
Hello everybody.
I have a WANG WLTC laptop computer (circa 1980's). I do not want to sell
it for cash, but I'd be willing to trade it for another unusual
portable/laptop.
Here's some specs on it:
-NEC V30 (8086) processor
-10MB Winchester Disk
-External Centronics-type SCSI port (HD is also SCSI)
-Built-in thermal printer, with roll/cut sheet capabilities
-512K RAM
-RS232-C Serial port
If you're interested in it, email me, and I can send you more info and/or a
picture of it.
There is, however, a problem with the internal (regulating/switching) power
supply. It runs the computer, but keeps blowing a capacitor. It also
needs an external P/S and battery. The battery is 10 sub-cells (with a
resistor - I have a schematic). A Tyco 20VDC racing transformer (the kind
for the little car/track sets) will run it.
I had an offer to trade it for an IBM PC-Radio, but I never got a reply.
If anyone has one of these, or any other odd or unusual laptops/portables,
and would be willing to trade, let me know.
ThAnX,
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
Someone posted recently that they have the originals (or copies) of
Windows 1.0? Could you please get in touch with me?
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
Tony Duell wrote:
>>
>> As far as I can tell the cables required for a single ESDI drive are the
>> same as for a MFM drive. Is this correct?
>
>AFAIK yes, provided there are no twists in them. Some PC control (34 pin)
>cables have twists so you can set all the hard drives to the same drive
>number. This doesn't work with ESDI.
>
>And no, I am not confusing this with a PC floppy cable, which also has a
>twist, but in a different place.
>
>But the ESDI cables are standard 20 pin (radial data) and 34 pin
>(control) cables.
ESDI cables for PC's may or may not have a twist. The drive has a jumper
(usually marked drive 1 or 2) that must be set accordingly.
I've had a lot of trouble getting old ESDI drives to work also, especially
with Western Digital controllers. I thought all my drives were bad until I
found a Future Domain controller that worked with most of them. The drives
also need to be low level formatted by the card being used.
Hans Olminkhof
>Xref: world alt.sys.pdp11:5203
>Path: world!blanket.mitre.org!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail
>From: "James A. Williams" <jawillie(a)hslc.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
>Subject: We have a PDP11/44 Available
>Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:22:10 -0700
>Organization: The University of the Arts
>Lines: 27
>Message-ID: <3611173D.88A4C27B(a)hslc.org>
>Reply-To: jawillie(a)hslc.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.28.84.92
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>X-Trace: 907165264 YRH3WRCEH545CD01CC usenet78.supernews.com
>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse(a)supernews.com
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win16; I)
We currently have a full PDP11/44 system that we are trying to get rid
of. The system consists of the
following
1 - PDP11/44
1 - TS11 Tape drive
2 - RMO2 Drives
2 - Systems Industries Drives (680Mb, 390Mb)
1 - DEC LP25 Printer
We are willing to entertain any reasonable offer for this equipment. We
are also willing to donate this
equipment to any charitable or educational institution. If you are
interested in this equipment, email
either myself at the address below or Joyce Zogott at jzogott(a)uarts.edu.
Thanks.
--
James A. Williams, PC Systems Analyst
The University of the Arts
Computer Services
Voice: (215)875-4856
Fax: (215)546-6134
jawilliams(a)uarts.edu
Hi Bill,
----------
> From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Vaxstation 3100
> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 5:28 AM
>
> I just came out ahead on a Vaxstation 3100 from E-Bay, having skipped
> the MicroVax3300...
It's not so heavy, and is faster than the 3300. Better graphics & more ...
> Looks like it's a 3100 Model 38... can someone point me to video
> pinouts, monitor specs etc since it's coming CPU box only.
If you still need it in few days, e-mail me directly. I have it all here,
but in boxes because i'm moving all computers from one room to another ;-))
> I'm wondering if it will drive any of the Sun Sparcstation monitors
> without a problem (or a modern multisync).
Modern multisync, sure. But the monitor has to be capabale of sync on
green, and a horiz freq of more than 70 kHz.
> At worst I'll run it with a VT100 (or 320 if I can find an MMJ cable).
320 would be better, you have MMJ on both sides then ..
>
> As soon as it arrives I plan to load it with VAX/VMS from the
> non-commercial hobby distribution... I'm wondering if I should
> check to see if there are any licenses and software on the box
> first. Any suggestions?
hobby is ok, i have 6.0, but using NetBSD too.
> Can this machine boot off a second drive -- I'd like to put
> NetBSD up on an external drive.
You could boot probably all of the sixteen scsi devices (if you have two
scsi in it). Only problem is, NetBSD still has problems with scsi on
Vaxstations 3100/xx.
> Any pointers to FAQs and info on this machine would be appreciated.
feels free to ask me directly, check the NetBSD homepage, there are
pointers to Microvax hardware pages.
> I left DEC after the MicroVax II and 8650 so I have no info on this
machine.
> Boy, will it be good to see VAX/VMS again.
Like seeing an old friend ? ;-))
cheers,
emanuel
Here's a message from another list. Please respond directly to the
original posters.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
>From bogus(a)does.not.exist.com Tue Sep 29 11:31:22 1998
From: bogus(a)does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:56 2005
Subject: Greetings from Big D!
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1109551016.8069.cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Saw an article about you and your group --
I have a working TRS-80 Model I which
includes expansion interface, RS-232
board, and double disk drives (now, try
and contain yourself....) at my parent's
home in Pennsylvania - they want to
'reclaim' the space, and keep dropping
hints about removing -- would hate to
'landfill' it since it works, but need a contact --
Tried contacting the TRS-80 user groups
>from a search on the web, and the Tandy Corp
headquarters here in Fort Worth , but have
received no replies.
Thanks for the help.
Glenn Knuth
Dallas, Texas
glennkn(a)juno.com
A few months ago, I picked up a scavenged non-working MicroVAX
and a little VaxStation 2000/VS410 from a junk storeroom at
Nicolet Instruments in Madison, WI. I'd missed a pair of much
nicer graphics-equipped MicroVAXes dumpstered a month or so before.
I've received word that they're clearing out this storeroom.
I know there'a a TK50, carts, manuals and lots of other misc. junk,
including several Cypher (?) mag tape units.
It was piled high and deep and very poorly organized. There's
also a rack-mount Nicolet 1280 that was known-working when retired.
Mr. Ismail, you have a 1080, would you like another from the
Nicolet family?
I'll pick up what makes sense, and post a list. I doubt I'll want
to keep it all.
- John
I just came out ahead on a Vaxstation 3100 from E-Bay, having skipped
the MicroVax3300...
Looks like it's a 3100 Model 38... can someone point me to video
pinouts, monitor specs etc since it's coming CPU box only.
I'm wondering if it will drive any of the Sun Sparcstation monitors
without a problem (or a modern multisync). At worst I'll run it
with a VT100 (or 320 if I can find an MMJ cable).
As soon as it arrives I plan to load it with VAX/VMS from the
non-commercial hobby distribution... I'm wondering if I should
check to see if there are any licenses and software on the box
first. Any suggestions?
Can this machine boot off a second drive -- I'd like to put
NetBSD up on an external drive.
Any pointers to FAQs and info on this machine would be appreciated.
I left DEC after the MicroVax II and 8650 so I have no info on this machine.
Boy, will it be good to see VAX/VMS again.
Bill
Bill
Thanks everybody for the inquiries about the 2068. It has been sold.
--Alan
--
Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M
Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250
Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI
BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++
http://www.bright.net/~oajones
Along with the Compaq books and the Jonos Escort previously
described, I just stumbled (literally!) over the other bit of
vintage digital gear.. an unopened/shrink wrapped box containing an
AT&T Voicepower VP1 module for the 6300 series. The box is marked
"Work Group System Voice Power"
I haven't opened it yet, but there was a stack of about 25 of
them, 20 of which had been sold en masse.
Apparently it is a trainable voice-input command module. Along with
it (unrelated) was the AT&T version of the IBM user's guide for the
6300, with disks. Since I have two 6300s skulking around here, I can
hook this thing up and see what happens...
The VCF II sounds like it will do more than was thought to further
the aim of Thechnology Preservation.... but that's why we do this, no?
Cheers
John
< > Title of item: DEC MicroVax 3300 Mini Main Frame.L@@K.(pics)
< > Seller: wizardworkz(a)netscape.net
< > Starts: 09/24/98 21:40:34 PDT
< > Ends: 10/01/98 21:40:34 PDT
< > Price: Currently $157.50
< > To bid the item, go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI
< >
< >
< > Item Description:
< >
< > DEC MICROVAX 3300
< > - Mini Main Frame - Alpha Server -
<
< He says Alpha?
He doesn't know what he's talking about.
If the case says VAXanything or MicroVAX it's VAX. If it's an Alpha
it would say Alphamumble. Systems with the DECmumble are MIPS.
It's KA640 serie vax with a VUP of 2.4.
Allison
