28 Sep
1998
28 Sep
'98
7:13 a.m.
It interfaces the console PDP-11 to a KL-10. ANyone have documentation for it?
-------
28 Sep
28 Sep
7:35 a.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
This morning, a friend of mine brought over a pickup truck load of Apple
computers, monitors, printers, and dead disk drives.
First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were two slightly
different keyboards. On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
that on the rest of the computers. Is this one way to identify early Apple
][e computers, or is there any significance to it?
Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on them. I had thought
these were for the Apple III computers; is this so, and/or were they also
used for other Apple computers?
Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I should
look for when I start checking out the drives?
Thanks in advance!
7:36 a.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
On 28 Sep 98 at 12:35, Marvin wrote:
This morning, a friend of mine brought over a pickup
truck load of Apple
computers, monitors, printers, and dead disk drives.
First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were two slightly
different keyboards. On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
that on the rest of the computers. Is this one way to identify early Apple
][e computers, or is there any significance to it?
Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on them. I had thought
these were for the Apple III computers; is this so, and/or were they also
used for other Apple computers?
Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are there common problems I should
look for when I start checking out the drives?
Thanks in advance!
Just checked my A-lle's and yes, on mine the icon is bigger on the unenhanced
lle. Another way is in the start-up screen the enhanced lle displays Apple ll-e
the unenhanced does not. Many users upgraded their regular lle however and I
don't know if this is true with the upgrades. IIRC the A3 monitor came out
before the A3 and can be used with any ll.
Depending on the type of fdd there were definite sequential settings, so using
an A drive as a B drive and vice-versa was not possible without setting them
up. Sam undoubtably is busy but he could give you better info on this.
Any extra Super Serial cards ?
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
9:50 p.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Just checked my A-lle's and yes, on mine the icon
is bigger on the
unenhanced lle. Another way is in the start-up screen the enhanced lle
displays Apple ll-e the unenhanced does not. Many users upgraded their
Remember that the second revision unenhanced //e has the same keyboard as
the enhanced //e. The way you know that a //e is enhanced is by the
sticker that says "Enhanced" around the green power LED. However, if the
original owner added the enhancement kit and didn't put the sticker on the
LED, you'd have to look inside for the upgraded ROMs and the 65C02.
regular lle however and I don't know if this is
true with the upgrades.
IIRC the A3 monitor came out before the A3 and can be used with any ll.
The Monitor /// came out with the Apple ///.
Depending on the type of fdd there were definite
sequential settings,
so using an A drive as a B drive and vice-versa was not possible without
setting them up. Sam undoubtably is busy but he could give you better
info on this.
Apple disk drives are dumb devices. They'll go on whatever port or in
whatever order you put them, and are totally interchangeable. They don't
care.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
10:05 p.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
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29 Sep
29 Sep
5:56 a.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
Thanks everyone for all the input on the Apple ][e differences. I did
notice one other difference between cases; there are two styles of latches
for the cover. The first is like the Apple ][ Plus with a velcro like
latch. The second has a lip that goes into a slot on the back of the
machine.
As for the existing machines, all but one has the 6502 processor with the
other having the 65C02 processor. Hopefully I will get a chance today or
tomorrow to start firing them up and find out which are enhanced and which
are not. Thanks for all the help.
1:40 p.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
On 29 Sep 98 at 2:50, Sam Ismail wrote:
To not appear as a complete idiot, since it would stand to reason that the
Monitor /// would have come with the A/// , I ran across this somewhere when
researching my monitor find. The way I remember it is that there was some delay
in the A/// intro and they put out the ready to go A/// monitor since it would
function with the other models. I have to organise my snippets of info one of
these days. It's becoming harder to find stuff but I'll search for this one if
only to retain some sort of credibility. : ^ ))
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Another difference I note is that my enhanced has black lettering on the keys
as opposed to white and a translucent 65C02 cover over the power-on indicator.
Also the rear lip on the back of the enhanced is wider which prevents me from
inserting some cards (modem 80 , long Grappler+ ) from my heavily upgraded
A-ll.
Just checked my A-lle's and yes, on mine the
icon is bigger on the
unenhanced lle. Another way is in the start-up screen the enhanced lle
displays Apple ll-e the unenhanced does not. Many users upgraded their
Remember that the second revision unenhanced //e has the same keyboard as
the enhanced //e. The way you know that a //e is enhanced is by the
sticker that says "Enhanced" around the green power LED. However, if the
original owner added the enhancement kit and didn't put the sticker on the
LED, you'd have to look inside for the upgraded ROMs and the 65C02.
regular lle
however and I don't know if this is true with the upgrades.
IIRC the A3 monitor came out before the A3 and can be used with any ll.
The Monitor /// came out with the Apple ///.
8:20 p.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Another difference I note is that my enhanced has
black lettering on the keys
as opposed to white and a translucent 65C02 cover over the power-on indicator.
Also the rear lip on the back of the enhanced is wider which prevents me from
inserting some cards (modem 80 , long Grappler+ ) from my heavily upgraded
A-ll.
Again, the white lettering is the first revision system. The black
lettering keyboard was the second. The enhanced version that came out
looked like the second revision unenhanced model. You could apply the
upgrade kit to any of the first two versions.
Basically, the determination of what type of //e you have is thus:
External:
White lettering keyboard
Black lettering keyboard
Black lettering keyboard with "Enhanced" sticker
Internal
Unenhanced - You boot up the machine and the top line has "APPLE ]["
Enhanced - You boot up the machine and the top line has "Apple //e"
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
1 Oct
1 Oct
2:05 a.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
To not appear as a complete idiot, since it would
stand to reason that the
Monitor /// would have come with the A/// , I ran across this somewhere when
researching my monitor find. The way I remember it is that there was some delay
in the A/// intro and they put out the ready to go A/// monitor since it would
Also, don't forget that the Apple ][ series was available for years after
the introduction (demise?) of the A///. Even if the Monitor /// came out
with the A///, they still could have sold it for years with the ][. For
reference, I got my A//e in about 1986. They were no longer selling the
M///. A friend who got his A//e in 1983ish got the M/// with it. The
A/// came out in (IIRC) 1980.
ttyl
srw
28 Sep
28 Sep
9:45 a.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on
them. I had thought
these were for the Apple III computers; is this so, and/or were they also
used for other Apple computers?
I've got one of those. Pretty nice looking
monitor. One would have to
assume that they were orginally meant for the Apple III, but it's never
smart to assume anything with old computers... It's no an Apple III-only
type of thing, just a normal composite monitor. I had mine hooked up to a
IIgs for while(finally got a 5.25" drive for it. Anyone know where to get
that DB-15->DB-15 video cable for the Apple RGB monitor?).
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10 a.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
>Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on
them. I had thought
>these were for the Apple III computers; is this so, and/or were they also
>used for other Apple computers?
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, John Rollins wrote in response to the above:
I've got one of those. Pretty nice looking
monitor. One would have to
assume that they were orginally meant for the Apple III, but it's never
smart to assume anything with old computers... It's no an Apple III-only
type of thing, just a normal composite monitor.
It is a normal green screen composite monitor that can be hooked up to
most composite outputs. There was a special all plastic stand, sort of
like a tiny step stool or one of those exercise steps, that straddles an
Apple II and is the proper width for the III monitor. An Apple III
computer has a blocky aluminum case and the monitor sits directly on top.
I would guess they had a lot of theose Apple III monitors after the
Apple III fiasco and the little stand allowed them to fob them off with
Apple IIe purchases.
that DB-15->DB-15 video cable for the Apple RGB
monitor?).
Standard pass through cable. A Belkin brand Macintosh monitor cable,
available at any Comp USA, will do fine. Although the cable will work for
either monitor, Mac and Apple IIgs RGB monitors cannot be used
interchangably on either machine.
-- Stephen Dauphin
9:58 a.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were
two slightly
different keyboards. On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
that on the rest of the computers. Is this one way to identify early Apple
][e computers, or is there any significance to it?
I don't know about this.
Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on
them. I had thought
these were for the Apple III computers; is this so, and/or were they also
used for other Apple computers?
We used one on our Apple ][+. One of the machines at the VCF was set up the
same way, I think.
Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are
there common problems I should
look for when I start checking out the drives?
Make sure the cables are aligned, otherwise you will fry a diode (it could be
another component -- I think it's a rectifier). This applies to the Disk ][ --
I don't know about other drives.
-- Derek
10:07 a.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
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9:36 p.m.
New subject: Apple Questions
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Marvin wrote:
First, I noticed on the Apple ][e computers there were
two slightly
different keyboards. On a few, the icon on the Apple key was larger that
that on the rest of the computers. Is this one way to identify early Apple
][e computers, or is there any significance to it?
It was the first revision Apple //e. And yes, it is one way to identify
the earlier Apple //e. The other way is by checking the revision stamped
on the motherboard. I believe this version will be 'A' and the later
version with the black lettering will be 'B'. The enhanced //e looks the
same as the Rev. B //e, and then the Platinum //e has an obvious numeric
keypad.
Second, I got a few monitors that say Apple III on
them. I had thought
these were for the Apple III computers; is this so, and/or were they also
used for other Apple computers?
The Monitor /// was originally intended for the Apple ///, but since the
/// flopped, and Apple probably had a ton on hand, they made those stands
that fit around your Apple ][ that allow you to nicely stack the Monitor
/// on top. They work fine with either Apple, and in fact are simply
monochrome monitors.
Finally, I haven't checked the drives but are
there common problems I should
look for when I start checking out the drives?
Drive speed, dirty heads. Drive speed is easy to adjust. Use Copy2plus
to display the drive speed while you tweak the drive speed potentiometer
on the drive's controller board. Let me know if you need help with this.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
6:56 p.m.
"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> wrote about the DTE20:
It interfaces the console PDP-11 to a KL-10.
No, it interfaces a PDP-11 to a KL10. DEC didn't make anything called
"KL-10".
ANyone have documentation for it?
Yes. What would you like to know? Basically it lets the PDP-11 load the
KL10 microcode, transfer data to and from the KL10's memory, and allows
the PDP-11 to interrupt the KL10 and vice versa.
29 Sep
29 Sep
1:18 a.m.
[No such thing as KL-10]
Oops, I thougt a dash went there. Sorry.
[What am I after with DTE20?]
What registers has it got (on the PDP-11 side) and where is it?
I have a copy of the KL FEP disks (images), and I want to make it go
enough to get a list of commands off ofit.
So, I need to (reasonably) fake a DTE20 so the stuff will boot.
-------
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15 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
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ai705＠osfn.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
dpeschel＠u.washington.edu -
DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
rexstout＠uswest.net -
scott＠saskatoon.com