- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Which was false, anyhow. The entire CPU was on the 3850 chip. But you < seemed to be making the claim that the 3850 wasn't a single-chip < microprocessor because it didn't contain the complete CPU. I was statin It isn't a single chip microprocessor like it's cousin the 3870. It's definately in the multichip (IE: required external chips to be a complete system). < that the 3850 CPU was as complete as the 8080, so if you are going to cl < that the 3850 wasn't a single-chip microprocessor, in order to be consis < you'll have to make the same claim about the 8080. You are confused. The 8080 is a single chip cpu that requires support chips. The F8 is a single chip cpu that requires support chips. The 3870 however (or 8048) are single chip microprocessors. See the subtle difference? Also the F8 is not as complete a cpu as the 8080 as it really has to have a lost of stuff around it or special chips to get a nominal data/address bus to interface to convential rams/roms. Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Funny you should mention the OSI's, a saintly coworker just gave me a C4P-MF and a C3D today. The C3D is the one you were thinking of with the 3 different CPU's. I also 'always wanted' a CompuColor II, and finally found one last year, it's REALLY rare. http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/CompuColorII.htm Still looking for a Sorcerer, but I have a couple of leads from the VCF. One gentleman has two of 'em, one of which has the S-100 box. Hasn't replied to my email yet though... Kai -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:20 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting On 6 Oct 98, at 16:48, Matt Pritchard wrote: > 1) Compucolor 2 (The Model with floppy disk in the monitor housing) > - I let one of these, working w/ software slip through my hands about > 4-5 > years ago That's one I played with once back in the dark ages and I wish I could find another. I have talked to people who worked there who still had a couple in the attic but didn't feel like digging them out and sending them to me, too much trouble. :-( > 2) an Exidy Sorcerer Finally got one and love it. Now if work would stop sending me around the country I could get some work done on the expansion box for it. >3) Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p (?) I'd be happy right now with any Ohio Scientific system. Though I'd really like the one, can't find my notes for the model, which had 3 processors. A 6502, Z-80 and 680x if I recall. Have the notes on it around here somewhere. Of course I'd add all of Kai's to the list too but that would throw me over 10. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

4
3
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New Acquisitions

by hhacker＠gte.net

I worked at the Los Angeles Air Force Base in the mid 80's and one of the requirements for personal computers of the time was called TEMPEST. Computers meeting the TEMPEST specification contained such hardware as necessary in order to ensure that electromagnetic radiation emitted from the computer would not be able to be monitored in such a way as to determine the use to which the computer was being put. More simply, one would not be able to eavesdrop on the computer user, since there would be no discernable message in any electromagnetic radiation coming from the computer. Perhaps this is what you have. This would explain the extra shielding on cables and the double walled chassis. -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, October 10, 1998 12:10 AM Subject: New Acquisitions >We've all heard talk about how great amateur radio events are for finding >good stuff. Tonight, I went to the Ventura Amateur Radio Club annual >auction and picked up some interesting stuff. > >$ 1.00 IBM TPC (Tempest version of the IBM PC) >$ 5.00 Commodore 16 clean in the original box >$ 5.00 NEC PC-8201A in the original box >$ 1.00 Apple //e system w/ monitor, printer, numeric keypad >$ 2.00 Apple //e system w/ monitor, printer >$10.00 Commodore System w/ 1702 monitor, printer, etc. >$ 1.00 Collection of Apple ][ software > >BTW, I have never seen (or heard) of the IBM TPC before. Anyone know how >common these things are? Both the monitor and keyboard have shielded cables >running to the box (as expected) and it looks like the box itself is a box >within a box.

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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New Find

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I keep adding to my collection regularly but this is notable. A Kaypro II to go with my (as yet non-functioning) Kaypro 2X. It was in an incredibly jammed little junk-store which remains unplumbed by me for now. In Sam's catergization scheme ,this would rate as a cockroach-market There were 2 walls piled high in a narrow shop with everything imagineable , leather jackets, jeans and toasters just tossed in a pile on top of each other with barely enough room to get between. Saw lots of old printers and monitors but at the bottom of one pile I could barely discern that tell-tale Darth Vader Blue form. It was dusty and dirty on the outside but clean-uppable and when I opened it up at home the KB was impeccably clean. It had cardboard inserts to protect the fdds, and the A drive's insert had a bill for $565 ($185 parts) with the owners name and phone number. I surmise the owner was told the price and never reclaimed it. Sounds like I have a Refurbished machine here ! :^)) ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:16 PM 10/7/98 +1000, you wrote: >What is the difference between the PC-8201 and the PC-8201A? I've got two >PC-8201As, and what *seems* to be an PC-8201. It's a different, bronze, >colour and has "NEC PC-8201" printed on the top left-hand corner. However, >the silver sticker on the bottom of the computer says it is a PC-8201A. The most obvious difference is the japanese characters on the keyboard. The "[" key in the lower right corner (next to the spacebar) is instead a toggle key (like capslock or grph) that switches into japanese mode. It also says "personal computer" under PC-8201 next to the screen, whereas my 8201a doesn't. On the back, the silver sticker is written in japanese. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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Internet Question

by rax＠warbaby.com

Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuserve in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a graphics file. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 8 months

4
3
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FW: VS2000 Color Video Board for shipping cost.

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Check this out... -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: "Mike O'Malley" <mike_omalley(a)usa.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: VAXstation 2000 Hardware Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:37:36 -0600 Organization: Flashnet Communications, http://www.flash.net Lines: 13 Message-ID: <6vo5ri$m76$1(a)excalibur.flash.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p69.amax2.dialup.abq2.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.12.55.130!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail I have one VAXstation 2000 board. - VS40X 4 Plane Color Graphics You want it, I send it. You pay the shipping. Please send request to mike_omalley(a)usa.net ...Mike ---------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) jps [dot] net Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Misc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< You need to add my favorite - Intersil's Intercept Jr. Good addition for an SBC, I wouldn't mind having on either. I do have the intersil 6960 sampler board. < Allison said: < >7. Intel prompt-48 < < I have one of those I could trade. < The only docs I have are 5 pages in the back of the MCS-48 < manual. Never have tried powering it up. Oh! Use to use one and know it well. Fun little box. Wouldn't mind having one for the SBC collection. Goes well with the IMSAI IMP48. Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Holy smokes! You're right! They're not in the 1998 catalog, but I found them in the 1996 catalog: HP-547A Current Tracer-- $975 ! I first saw these over 15 years ago-- the prices were *much* lower then! Ahhh, it looks like they don't make 'em no more. Bummer. But that was at most, two years ago. Not bad. On 9 Oct 1998 18:48:57 -0000 Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> writes: >> Yep, that's the one! Boy, did you ever get lucky! Those current >tracers >> are $300-$400 a shot! And HP *still* makes these. >> Such a deal. > >Are you sure? I can't find them on the HP T&M web site. > >Last time I checked into it, HP wanted about $800 for them. > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

5
6
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How to identify comm hardware you pass up

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Hey, here's a tip. If you're interested in knowing to what use you can put that communications hardware you keep passing up at your preferred source for classic computers, get yourself a Glasgal Communications catalog. The older the better. Glasgal was a company that sold thousands of communications products, from cables & connectors to muxes & switches, and everything in between (and I'm talking everything). The catalog I have from them is 1987, and has some pretty interesting stuff in it, including things I've seen at thrift stores or surplus shops, or things I've worked with. This particular catalog is called "System/Configuration Guide and Product Listing". So not only does it describe their complete product line but it also goes into technical discussions about certain products and their applications, including diagrams. Its basically a tutorial on how to hook up and use the products they are selling. It is very thorough and extraordinarily useful if you'd like to start building your own communcations network between disparate computer storage sites with old comm hardware. I found this particular catalog in a thrift store. Alas (homage to Tony :), Glasgal doesn't seem to be around anymore. I just made a bunch of calls, first to the number in the catalog, then to toll-free directory assistance, then to directory assistance in New Jersey, with no success. I then did a web search on "Glasgal Communications" and found this on a stock market discussion BBS: "WE ARE MANUFACTURERS OF HIGH QUALITY EMPTY GLASS BOTTLES. WE PRODUCE BOTTLES IN TWO COLORS AMBER & WHITE. WE ARE SUPPLYING TO THE LIQUOR, PHARMACEUTICAL, FOOD BEVERAGES AND COSMETICS INDUSTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD." So either Glasgal Communications has radically altered its business plan or some new company has commandeered their name. If you run across a Glasgal Communications catalog from days gone by, grab it. This also applies to old Black Box catalogs (whom still exist) because if their old catalogs have the same format of their current catalogs, you can expect the same type of helpful information. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Misc.

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Sam and all, At 09:16 PM 10/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >Speeaking of which, I found an interesting Intersil board at a vermin >market (cheezier than a flea market) the other day. The silk screen mask >on the board says "ICM 7235/36 EV/KIT". It has a 40-pin socket (empty) >and two 14-pin sockets (empty) and a glass-enclosed LCD display that has >the following format: 188:8.8 (so in other words it has one digit with >only two segments, then 4 digits with all 7 segments and a colon and >period). I can't figure out what the display would be used for. It has >an edge connector for whatever purpose. Anyone know what this is? I wish >I had a damn digital camera already so I could get a picture of this to > An Intersil 7235 is a 4 digit vacuum fluorescent driver chip, 40 pins. Input = mux. BCD/hex data. A 7236 is a 4 1/2 digit counter with a vacuum fluorescent driver like the 7235. Interesting that they have a common eval. board, my old Intersil cat. just says an evaluation kit is available for each one (separate numbers). -Dave

27 years, 8 months

1
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Book Review: A Guide To Collecting Computers ...

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>Buy the book! I wish more collectors would start offering services that >target other collectors (like Jim W's IMSAI parts supply). Who will be >first to offer an old computer manual reprint service? (Similar services >seem to be popular in the ham radio community.) >-- Doug I thought WE were already doind that! Aren't WE? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Hayes Bankruptcy

by rcini＠email.msn.com

This is the *second* bankruptcy for Hayes in 5 years. The last was in 1994 (emergence in 1996, I think). Maybe it's time to let someone else take a shot at running the company? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 8 months

1
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FS: Hewlett Packard 90 Meter DDS Data Cartridges

by oajones＠bright.net

I have a unopened box of Hewlett Packard 90 meter DDS Data Catridges (5 cartridges, 2 Gbytes before compression). I'm asking $10 plus shipping. Send me email if you are interested. --Alan -- Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250 Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ mailto: oajones(a)bright.net

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Corrections to trivia

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you > can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do > anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there > were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a > Universe, nobody cares. I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body of work. In fact, I think people do care. I'm not so quick to sweep historical facts underneath the carpet simply as a matter of convenience. I'd rather know the complete and true story, and not just the easiest one to remember. Furthermore, you are are discounting the AMI microprocessors of the early 70s, which Holt went on to design after the F14 CADC, and the influence those chips may have had on later designs. In fact, you are choosing to go along with the popular history written years ago by a biased reporter that is perpetuated by lazy historians who simply regurgitate the information they read in the last book rather than doing real research and finding out there was more to the story, and that there is history before the popular history. The picture is bigger than the canvas it was painted on. I want to know what was beyond the frame. I'm surprised you have this attitude when on the one hand you'd like to see the HP9830 recognized as the first personal computer, rather than the Altair 8800. By your own reasoning, the HP9830 wasn't the big bang, so who cares? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

3
14
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Hayes

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

When was the last time? > >Again? > >George > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > >On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> >> Just so everyone knows, Hayes has filed for Bankruptcy.. >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

4
3
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Internet Question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuse < in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a < graphics file. 1984 300 baud was 12.50hr connect time. 1986 1200baud was 12.50hr 1991 1200baud was 9.50hr 1994 2400 6.00hr I may be off some, it's a memory test. Compared to now, very expensive and graphic files were rarely sent before 86ish though there were up/downloads. Oh, internet mail was 1990 and roughly $0.15 a page additional I don't think sending binaries were possible then. Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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TRS-80 Model 100 (was Re: Convergent Technologies workSlate)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:08 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >The mention in this thread of a Kyocera-labeled product intrigues me, >as I'd never heard of such at the edge of the Pacific I was on then. The Kyocera KC-85 is well known, although not too common. The case is shaped more like the NEC, but it has the keyboard of the m100. P.S., come to VCF 3.0 and see all the variations (hopefully!) and check out the talk I'm going to do (hopefully!) on the history of all these machines. (If anyone has any info, history, or anecdotes, please get in touch!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Top 10 sins of a computer scrapper

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:07 AM 10/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >Chameleon, I may have a manual or two. If you do, would you be interested in getting rid of them? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Oh yeah, these things are like, mondo-cool. Generally, the logic pulser and current tracer are used together. A common failure mode for TTL and CMOS devices is you'll have a node in a circuit stuck low. Okay, you have a source driving two or more inputs. Who's weighing everything down? With the circuit in some steady state, start the pulser pulsing, and apply it to the pin that's the source. Place the tip of the current tracer on the trace that the source is attached to, and adjust the sensitivity control until the indicator light has some intensity. I think the light will blink at some intensity when it's set right-- Anyway, run the probe tip along the trace. If the light goes out, or goes dim, you passed the branch to where you pulses are going. You follow the pulses until you end up at the bad device and seriously impress the hell out of anybody watching. Why are these things so expensive? The element at the tip is an *EXTREMELY* sensitive hall-effect device, it's polarized (notice the little dot on the tip), and it's a seriously intense analog instrument in a teeny-weenie little package. But probably mostly because some people will pay just about anything for anything that's made by hp (nobody ever got fired for buying an HP product over something else). Anyway, so that's the low-down on current tracing (well, as good as I can remember, anyway). For random-logic, you just cant beat it. I think I still have an old applications bulletin around here someplace. . . . Jeff On Fri, 09 Oct 1998 18:08:32 -0700 Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net> writes: >At 14:40 09-10-98 -0500, you wrote: > >>Holy smokes! You're right! They're not in the 1998 catalog, but I >found >>them in the 1996 catalog: HP-547A Current Tracer-- $975 ! > > <eep!> > > My God... I just double-checked the model number on mine. > > Yep... 547A. Geez, and I though the Data I/O UniSite I got a >few years ago >was a coup! > > What makes the darn things so expensive? For that matter, what >are some of >the uses for it? I got it mainly as a curiousity, and as part of the >purchase of my logic pulser, but if the thing is one of those Really >Useful >but Obscure tools, I'd like to know about it. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in >our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Internet Question

by roblwill＠usaor.net

El,, I agree about CompuServe, but one of the online services that I know of in the later 80's was Tandy's PC-Link. It came with DeskMate, and was text-only (I think). I'm not sure of the prices, because I never signed up, though. As for graphics, I don't thing there was much graphics. Most of it was text. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Internet Question > Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 10:17 PM > > > > > Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuserve > > in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a > > graphics file. > > Er...CompuServe didn't have Internet access in the 80s. For that matter, > it doesn't really have it in the 90s but that's a matter of opinion. =-D > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< There's also a version of the UCSD p-System, which runs on a minimal -11 < but that probably has licensing restrictions, too. Runs nice on -11s but the license it far as I know even more tangled. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Are the CPM68K sources available? Under what sort of license? < Visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site. MAIN SITE AT : http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm US MIRROR AT : http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm European Mirror at : http://cws86.kyamk.fi/mirrors/cpm/ Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< On this it is my understanding that it was a fairly modified version of < RT-11, and it won't run on a "real" PDP-11. Most certainly did. the device drivers supplied are heath specific though for the disks only. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Hayes

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Just so everyone knows, Hayes has filed for Bankruptcy.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Earlier I poionted out that RT-11 has a hobby license... after rereading the License it's clear that's not the case it's only available free for the Supnik Emulator. This doesn't help most people. Now, the problem is for those people that have an -11 and want to use it somehow what is there in the way of OSs? RT-11 legal restrictions exist... RSX-11 No idea, but I'd expect licensing again RSTS Licensing again? Unix... AVAILABLE via PUPs support group as free binaries and 100$ license for sources. Initially this seems good but not all PDP-11 configurations can run unix and not all versions of Unix have the drivers to interact with some PDP-11 hardware. So it may take a lot of work with limited tools or none to get it going. Xenix, available free as binaries for the PRO... Canned version OF V6 by appearance and if you have other than an RD51 it doesn't work. So what else is there that is free (or very low cost) and can be run on most of the LSI-11, PDP-11/23 or 11/73 series? IE: can be run on a 11/03 with RX01 floppy or a 11/73 with RQDX3 MSCP disks (hard disks). There is fuzzball but I know far to little about it or it's applicability to various hardware configs. Allison

27 years, 8 months

6
7
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DEC-clones from behind the old Iron Curtain.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

Some of you might be interested in this great story and remarkable photographs. >Hello! > >I'd be honoured if you include my webpage about the Digital >PDP8, PDP11 and VAX compatible computers manufactured in Hungary >during the existance of the "Iron Curtain": > http://www.internetto.hu/muzeum/e_tpa.html > >I also have a PDP-11 tribute page at: > http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/ > >Thanks for your time! > > / ___ _ _ ___ ____ ___ ___ > /__//__///_///__ / /_ / ) Varga Akos Endre hamster(a)telnet.hu >/ // // /___/ / /__ / ( www.telnet.hu/hamster/english.html >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > My collection http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/decadence/e_index.html >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Help with AES computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If a sample of those diskettes is available, I, or Allison, or lots of < others on this list could check it out and find out just what they have If it's softsector I have capability. If hardsector it's within my capability. I lack the financial incentive to persue building one time hardware/software effort being they are an organization. Allison

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Who wants 3480 1/2" tape carthridges?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Who's the Canadian guy who said he wanted the box of 3480 1/2" tape carthridges and was supposed to send me shipping dough for them? I haven't heard from you since we last spoke. (Sorry, I forgot who you were). But this message is also to solicit anyone else who needs these. I've got a couple hundred. Used once, maybe twice, but otherwise they may as well be new. I think one application for these is an IBM AS/400. Just pay me shipping and they're yours. Otherwise I'll find some creative way to auction them on eBay and make a small fortune. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Apple power supply problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I can't think of a reliable troubleshooting technique that invloves < feeding unlimited current through the device. The next part to smoke may < not be the problem at all... I'd go further to say doing that assures the single point problem is not a multiple point problem assuming the damage is now not beyond repairable. Toasting chokes and transformers generally assures the tech a really nasty task of trying to find one compared to an easy one finding caps, resistors and semiconductors. Allison

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Misc.

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Kai said: > 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular > Electronics but was lost in shipment > 2. Xerox Alto > 3. Mark 8 > 4. Scelbi 8H > 5. Kenbak-1 > 6. Micral 8008 > 7. Apple I > 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit > 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator > 10. IBM 5100 You need to add my favorite - Intersil's Intercept Jr. Allison said: >7. Intel prompt-48 I have one of those I could trade. The only docs I have are 5 pages in the back of the MCS-48 manual. Never have tried powering it up. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The binaries are pretty much useless if you want to run on real hardware < In order to reconfigure unix you have to recompile from the sources. The < sources, though are affordable, and certainly some versions include < drivers for a lot of DEC drives, etc. But I think you need an MMU, so no < chance of running on an 11/03 Yep! depending on version you your really need sources. I have an 11/73 with RQDX3 and two RD52s and V7 running on a 10mb RL02 cart. Without sources all of the other disks unless older RK05s are useless. Also it doesn't use all the avalable ram. Fairly useless other than it's real unix. < > The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is < > around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. < < IIRC Fuzzball needs an RT11 system to provide a lot of utilities (things < like PIP), the assembler, etc. It's not really stand-alone. Also problematic. Almost begs a new PD OS that is on the simple scale, buildable and patterned after RT or OS/8. Porting CPM68 (c source) to PDP-11 may be doable for a simple 64k memory (16bit). Porting C sources is not my area of expertize. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 9, 10:00, David C. Jenner wrote: > This is a critical question. If there were only a small OS that ran > on a minimal -11 with floppies, there could be many more usable systems > out there. > > There are several other possibilities. The last two of these have > fairly liberal licensing restrictions (maybe none): > > - HT-11, the Heathkit version of RT-11 > - Xinu, which runs on an 11/03, but [...] > - FORTH, which is available in several different versions There's also a version of the UCSD p-System, which runs on a minimal -11, but that probably has licensing restrictions, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

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Help with AES computer?

by rax＠warbaby.com

Can anyone help this guy? >Professor Dr Hans Rollmann, who supervises one of the more elegant and >elaborate sites on the WorldWideWeb for the Department of Religious Studies >at Memorial University in Newfoundland, has found some important primary >data that he hopes to mount with other texts on the site. These data are >imprisoned on 8-inch computer disks that were made on an AES computer, >apparently in the 1980s. No printed record of the material survives; only >the 8-inch disks remain. No AES computer or 8-inch drive exists at Memorial >University; the technical services people from the Computing Sciences >Department tried to build an 8-inch drive from spare parts, but came up >short. The intellectual content frozen in this "obsolete" technology >remains unreadable. > >Does anyone know the whereabouts of an intact AES computer? Failing that, >is there any available information about these machines? What did the >acronym AES stand for? Where was it built? Most important, what operating >system did it use? What word processing software might have been loaded? > >Has anyone preserved any computer with an 8-inch disk drive? As I recall, >both Commodore and Atari used 8-inch drives. > >Anyone who has useful information on this problem can communicate with >Professor Rollmann at > > hrollman(a)morgan.ucs.mun.ca > >Those who may be interested in his religious studies web site can begin >sifting through its many layers at > > http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~hrollman > >Professor Rollmann will be grateful for any assistance anyone can offer. >The rest of us need to be sure that any intellectual material we >"catalogue" can also be "read." -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 8 months

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World Power Systems scam

by bobstek＠ix15.ix.netcom.com

Kai - Please don't confuse Morrow (a "good" guy) with the Xitan scammers. TDL made a Z-80 board and then some decent software, and then some Xitan computer systems. TDL got into trouble using some bad memory chips and had cash flow problems. Some "business consultants" were brought in who dissolved TDL and started Xitan and heavily promoted an advanced Z80 system, the General. They took orders and disappeared in '78. But George Morrow wasn't involved - he was in California, and TDL / Xitan was in New Jersey. Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

27 years, 8 months

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"David Williams" North Star Horizon Help

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

RE: "David Williams" North Star Horizon Help I keep meaning to write up a Horizon troubleshooting guide because it seem that someone has these same problems about every 6 months. But I can't even seem to find the time to sit down and just design a logo graphic for my museum. OK here is a quick shoot at it. >Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon >I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the >disk drive and then nothing. Good, if the drive light is coming on that saves some steps. On a normal load the drive light should be on for about 12 seconds. The first step would be to see if you are getting a READ error on the drive. 1. According to the MDS-A-D controller manual you can test for a read error at location 7C pin 6. This is the DI-GATE line and on a read error there will be a continuous stream of pulses on this line. This chip is 7 columns from the left side and 3 rows >from the top and should be a 74LS00. I tried this out this morning. I could'nt find my logic probe so I used a voltmeter. With NO disk error 7C pin 6 stayed at 4.55 VDC. With a disk error this pin dropped to 1.91 VDC indicating pulses. If you are getting disk errors, it could be: * a blank or bad disk * a single density disk * a faulty disk drive * or a fault in the read circuit of the controller. Also check that the head carriage guide is in the spiral groove on the stepper motor cam of the disk drive. If you are not getting a disk error then it's narrowed down to a unpersonalized disk or serial communcations problems. 2. It would help for the next step to have a bus monitor card. These are like gold if you are dealing with S-100 bus systems on a regular basis. But you can also just use a bus extender card to allow you to get to the bus signals with your voltmeter. This morning I looked at the address bus after booting with a working DOS disk and with a unpersonalized DOS disk. With the standard version that loads at $2000, the I/O routines are normally placed at $2900-$2A00. The unpersonalized DOS has it I/O vectors pointing to themself like this: $200D C30D20 COUT JMP COUT THIS IS THE CHARACTER OUTPUT ROUTINE * Character must be in the B register. Device # may be in the ACC, if * desired. On return the character must also be in the ACC. No other * registers can be modified. Your routine must do a RET. * $2010 C31020 CIN JMP CIN THIS IS THE CHARACTER INPUT ROUTINE * Device # may be in the ACC, if desired. The 7 bit ascii code must be * returned in the ACC. No other registers can be modified. Your routine * must do a RET. * $2013 C31320 TINIT JMP TINIT THIS IS THE TERMINAL INIT ROUTINE * All registers can be used. If not needed, point to a RET. * $2016 C31620 CONC JMP CONC THIS IS THE CONTROL C DETECTION ROUTINE * Returns Z set if control C is typed, else returns Z cleared if other * character or no character is typed. All registers can be used. In both cases bit 13 of the address bus is alway active ($2000). With the unpersonalized disk the 8 lower bits were the ONLY other active lines. But with the working disk, bits 8-11 were also active. So, checking address bits 8-11 for activity should show you if DOS is really trying to communicate with your terminal. 3. I still can't find my manual for the Horizon that shows how to set the DIP headers (the "plugs" are called DIP headers). Here a RS-232 break-out box would be handy. If you don't have one, I would try setting the Horizon to 300 baud (with that switch in the back) and your terminal to 9600 baud. That should give you a couple of lines of garbage if any thing comes across the line. Remember to set your terminal to 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit, no flow control, and if you are using your PC as a terminal which would be best, emulate just a standard ANSI-BBS terminal. When I use my PC as a terminal, I use a straight through 25 wire ribbon cable, but try your Null Modem cable too. If you get the garbage then set your terminal to the same speed as the Horizon. And remember that the Horizon may not boot when powered on, you may have to hit the reset switch in the back. Let me know what you find. And I'll send the games to you next week (have to work this weekend). ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< When IBM was developing the 1401 emulation for the 360/30, they discover < that many customers were in fact using and dependent on undefined behavi < of the 1401. They had to emulate a lot of things that were never docume This was also true for undocumented PDP-8 series microcoded OPR instructions. In the later 8E and 8A and cmons parts there would be support for some of them. Other cpus with undocumented instruction are 8085, z80 and I'll bet a slew more. Those however the undocumented instructions were also copied and assured to work by licensed and non-licensed copies of the parts. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Old HP disk drives (HP 7925) available

by sieler2＠allegro.com

Hi, David Largent, at Largent(a)MBRNET.INTEREX.ORG, has some old HP disk drives available (in Muncie, Indiana). The HP 7925 is a 120 MB disk with an HP-IB interface (removable disk pack). The HP 7933 is a 400 MB disk with an HP-IB interface (non-removable, although extremely closely related to the HP 7935, which is removable). The drives are about the size of a 2-drawer filing cabinet ... and heavier. If you're interested in them, contact him ... not me! His posting: > OK. With all this talk about the old venerable 7925 and 7933 disc > drives, it makes me realize that I still have a pair (a master and a > slave) of 7925s sitting here in a corner with boxes stacked on top of > them. They're left over from a 3000/42 that we sold years ago, and > were fully operational when they were disconneted. I think I even > have the manuals for them! > > We're going to be relocating our offices in a few weeks, and it makes > no sense to move them. Thus a few questions... > > - Does anybody want them? They're your's if you pay to get them > delivered to you. (We _might_ [read: probably not] even be willing > to share in the cost if you can offer a good home and there's not too > much cost involved.) > > - Assuming nobody wants them (or parts of them), what should I do w/ > them? A few ideas come to mind... > > - Haul them to the junk yard for scrap metal. > - Sell them for "precious metal". (Is there any in it???!) > - Leave them in the old building and let the new occupents > figure out what to do w/ them. (hehehe) > > Being the pack rat that I am, and a long-time, loyal HP customer, > it's difficult to think about simply hauling them off to the junk > yard. Seems like they at least deserve a burial or something! > > Now I'll sit back and wait for those "creative" (or real) suggestions > to start coming my way from the list. :-) > > -dll > > David L. Largent "My thoughts are my own, > Information Services Manager unless I choose to share them!" > The Gilbert Companies, Inc. Telephone: 765/284-4461 > P.O. Box 1032 Facsimile: 765/288-2079 > Muncie, Indiana 47308-1032 Email: Largent(a)MbrNet.Interex.Org > -- Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com http://www.allegro.com/sieler.html

27 years, 8 months

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Canon Cat

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:12:07 -0500 (CDT) Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: >On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Sherry Bumgarner wrote: > >> I have a lot of information on the Canon Cat and related computers. >I >> worked on them and was a company (Information Appliance) founder. >> Interested? > >Yes, very! We all want to know the real story of who killed the Cat! Maybe nobody-- maybe because it was just too 'curious'. (sorry, couldn't resist). >(And I want one or two of your Cats, as well). > >-- Doug > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

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Canon Cat

by sherry＠neteze.com

I have a lot of information on the Canon Cat and related computers. I worked on them and was a company (Information Appliance) founder. Interested? John 'Sandy' Bumgarner job(a)garlic.com

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by franke＠sbs.de

Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu> wrote about undefined 6502 opcodes: >> [lot deleted] Exact hit Eric. > This is nothing new to microprocessors; many mainframes and minicomputers > had undefined opcodes which customers experimented with. Yes, but as a rule, mainframes and most minis catch undefined opcodes in a special exeption. Even the Intel x86 (starting >from with the 80186) throw an Int 06 on invalid opcodes. > As with the > microprocessors, there was never any guarantee that the undefined opcodes > on any two otherwise equivalent machines would peform identically. With > microprocessors, though, there tend to be fewer design changes made after > introduction than there were for mainframes. AFAIK, all NMOS 6502 CPUs > have the same behavior for all undocumented instructions. Some of the > NMOS deriviatives have different behavior though. Jep, the web article used by Cameron as reference is based on the Commodore 8502 used in the C64. Just lucky that Commo used the original MOS design for the 8502 :). Other 6502 compatible Processors, that didn't use the original design have different operations at the undefind opcodes. Eventualy this led to some problems Apple II programms encountered on individual clones or Apples with upgraded CPUs. Especialy when one switched for any of the CMOS types (65C02, 65SC02, 65G02, 65S02), becuse they used some of the free Opcodes for new/enhanced operations (like bitmaipulation etc.). Undefined opcodes ar implementation dependend like internal function of an operating system are version dependand. Just remember how ridicoulus the CPU detection algorythms on the x86 are since there was no standard cpu type command. Some of the enhanced chips can only be detected usind complex tryal and error strategies. I remember that a general purpose detector could take some seconds to determinate the CPU thru exeptions, timeouts, busfaults and arithmetic checking. And now try to distinguish the different 6502s. I have never seen any programm to perform this. Funy thing: History repeats with DirectX - Microsoft didn't include any version checking in DirectX 3.0 so, for example, if you want to use the enhanced sound functions later on, you have to perform time consuming operations to finaly find the needed function resulting in an error (or worse, depending on the function just performing diferent). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Whoa! Yep, that's the one! Boy, did you ever get lucky! Those current tracers are $300-$400 a shot! And HP *still* makes these. Such a deal. On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:40:44 -0700 Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net> writes: >At 00:44 09-10-98 -0000, you wrote: > >>I've lusted after the HP Current Tracer for years, but they are very >>expensive and the price keeps going up! > > Is this the probe that looks a lot like the later models of HP >Logic >Probe, except with an insulated tip and a little pot that's used to >set the >sensitivity? > > If so, I got lucky and found one at a local swap meet. I think >the guy >wanted all of $25 for it and the HP Logic Pulser. I got both, >naturally. > > I would conclude that they do show up at techie swaps, but not >that often. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in >our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Someone suggested H11 and I'd bet that one is more encumbered as it was a version of RT and I think Heath was licensed from DEC. < Obviously, I don't own a license for RT-11. And assume that the commerci < license from Mentec is probably much more than a hobbyist would pay to < tinker with old machines. Has anyone approached Mentec about the Unknown, Megan any idea of cost? < they would be more apt to create one. From what I can tell, an old PDP < with no software license is virtually useless, except for < hacking/curiosity value. After a half hour of playing around with the Maybe someone could create an OS for the PD, patterned after CPM or ???. < would be without the VMS-hobbyist license. I mean, who _really_ wants t < run BSD on all of your old hardware? It kind of defeats the whole < purpose of collecting the old machines if you have the same stupid Unix < prompt on your VAX, Sparc 1, Mac IIfx, 486PC, etc... That is especially true if your not into unix though, that is an option for those that are. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< V5, V6 and V6 are available from the same site as the Supnik < emulators, and I don't believe the licenses accompanying them < are as strict... and yes, the license for them is only $100. The 100$ license is for the sources. Binaries are pretty much free if it runs on what you have. It turns out that can be more of a restriction than any license. The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. For me it's no fun running an emulator when real iron is at hand. Though I'm able to run most OSs I'm always looking at "Yet other choices". Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Heathkit H8 vs. H-89

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< address of 4200H or something for TRS-80 Model 1's without a memory < mapping mod, and also for some Heathkit machine. I always assumed the < latter was the H8. All of the H8 and H89 systems were rom at 0000, mods were available for both. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Apple power supply problems

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

one of my 3 apple //GS wouldnt power up which after subbing parts out, turned out to be a power supply issue. i took the cover off the ps to look around finding nothing obviously wrong. i looked at the fuse and wasnt sure if it had burned out or not. call me crazy or whatever, but i used a paper clip to bypass the fuse and plugged the ac in and powered on for just a sec. i got a bit of smoke so i powered off and checkes. not finding the source, i did it again while watching. this time, something really smoked! it seems to be a small transformer of some sort, about 3/4 in square and 1 inch high and it's right near where the a/c comes into the power supply. there's a larger one right int he middle of the circuit board. it's still hot several minutes later! thankfully the computer itself is ok although it did reset my main computer on the same electrical outlet. provided i didnt destroy the whole bloody thing, what could be causing the problem? david

27 years, 8 months

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World Power Systems scam

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I was thinking I had seen it in 80 Microcomputing. If I get time this weekend, I'll see if I can find it. My memory is hazy on the issue, but I believe I either sent them money for a product, or was _about_ to send them money when it turned out to be a scam. I remember things like mock-ups of products that they used in their ads; they'd taken some standard project boxes and literally just sat parts of switches, LED lenses, etc, on top of them for the photographs. I think I may have talked to someone at the "company" about their products. If I can ask, what prompted this after so long? > >But can anyone point me to a particular issue of Byte or other >magazine that has a World Power Systems ad? > >- John > > Bill Richman incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)

27 years, 8 months

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Canon Cat

by sherry＠neteze.com

If anyone wants to know about the Cat, I have a large collection of info and Cats (and a Swyft or two) and a lot of memories. John 'Sandy' Bumgarner job(a)garlic.com (sherry(a)neteze.com is my wife's email address)

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by franke＠sbs.de

>::Jep, the web article used by Cameron as reference is >::based on the Commodore 8502 used in the C64. Just >::lucky that Commo used the original MOS design for >::the 8502 :). Other 6502 compatible Processors, that > Luck had nothing to do with it -- Commodore owned MOS. MOS was turned into > Commodore Semiconductor Group after Jack Tramiel bought them out. Stupid meone, no idea of history. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Hard drive recovery questions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This particular manifestation of a hard drive problem is not classic, but since it could just as easily happen on a classic computer, might as well ask it here. If you think it's inappropriate, please say so. The machine in question is a Mac Quadra 610, which has been running as a fileserver for a 15-machine network for many years. It has an 8GB hard drive, probably one of the first to get into catalogs. It was working OK, but tended to freeze when four people started to transfer 10MB files. So, we replaced it. And now, the hard drive stopped working and we can't get the documents stored on it back. Here is the hard drive problem: it spins up ok (takes about 15sec. and sounds like a hair dryer when it does), and then tries to seek. The heads sound OK for about 1 sec. and then make a clicking noise and stop. It then tries again. Does this mean some servo data has been overwritten or something? We don't want to spend $1000 on recovery, and I thought this might be a good time to try some alternative methods. Would it help if I opened the drive and manually moved the heads? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Apple //c power supply

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Probably all that's wrong with it is a blown fuse. (that happened to a TRS-80 Model I P/S that I had). To get it open, take a utility knife (the kind with snap-off blades) with a new blade, and a blow torch. Use the blow torch to heat the knife, then "cut" around the P/S until the top half pops off the bottom half. I use this method to open old laptop batteries to replace the cells. When you get the P/S fixed, just put the two halves back together, (sand [or cut] the ridges off made by the hot knife, first) and put a bead of hot glue in the seam to hold it together. It doesn't look that bad, and It can always be popped apart with a screwdriver if you need to fix it again. GooD LucK, ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple //c power supply > Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 4:10 AM > > On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Paul Kearns wrote: > > I'd like to get in there and see if I can fix it, or just rebuild it (but > I'd still like to at least rebuild it inside the brick case). Does anyone > know if there is a way to get these things open without ruining them? I've > pushed and poked and prodded with no luck.

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is >>around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. >I don't think so, since some of Fuzzball, if I remember correctly, >is built under RT-11 and runs under RT-11. I don't think I've seen >a Fuzzball system which was entirely self-bootable. (Maybe John >Wilson can answer, since he's done some stuff with it). John Wilson does have self-bootable Fuzzball images on ftp.dbit.com, in /pub/pdp11/fuzzball. Fuzzball is an "operating system" of sorts, but you can't do development with it unless you have the RT-11 macro assembler, linker, and other program development tools, so there isn't a lot of interesting stuff you can do with it unless you've also got a RT-11 license. TSX+ is pretty much the same way - without the RT-11 utilities you're dead in the water. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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IBM 5363 II

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

OK what is an IBM 5363 II? I found one in a trift store. I've been told that the 5363 was a S/36 that designed to be a very low cost entry into the 3X architecture and that it runs an operating systems called SSP. So what is a 5363 II and what OS does it use? Is it worth picking up and saving? Also does anyone know how to get around the password protection? Joe

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by mbg＠world.std.com

>The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is >around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. I don't think so, since some of Fuzzball, if I remember correctly, is built under RT-11 and runs under RT-11. I don't think I've seen a Fuzzball system which was entirely self-bootable. (Maybe John Wilson can answer, since he's done some stuff with it). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Apple //c power supply

by paulk＠microsoft.com

Arrrggghhh... Okay, so, for some time my Apple ][ collection has included a //c which I've never booted because I didn't have the brick for it. I've seen them for sale all over, but always for $25 to $40 (plus shipping). Since that's like five times what I paid for the CPU, I've been pretty reluctant to go for it. At the VCF swap meet, I picked up a //c with brick for $15, and the vendor even threw in a non-working //c for parts (cool). I brought it all home, fired up the two good //c's, and then turned to the non working one, which promptly (auugh!) ate the brick. I'd like to get in there and see if I can fix it, or just rebuild it (but I'd still like to at least rebuild it inside the brick case). Does anyone know if there is a way to get these things open without ruining them? I've pushed and poked and prodded with no luck. Thanks a lot! Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 8 months

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World Power Systems scam

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

World Power Systems: Memory boards, big ads, great prices, non-existent company. Some guy named "The Colonel" who of course wasn't. Magazine ads on credit, graphic design for said ads on credit, prepayment from customers never returned. Not just in Byte magazine, also (at least) kilobaud and Interface Age, year was 1978? Whole thing was blown by the editor of Interface Age, who was suspicious and called to "do a story" on the company. When he showed up, "The Colonel" was on the lam, and there was nothing but an empty office and a phone. An almost identical scam happened in, as I recall, 1979, when a company placed multipage color ads for a bunch of really cool, inexpensive TRS-80 Model 1 peripherals in 80 Microcomputing Magazine, then disappeared. And let's not forget Morrow, which, after changing names to Xibec (Xidec?) and announcing & taking orders for some super doozy computer called The General, also vanished overnight. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 3:26 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: World Power Systems scam On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, John Foust wrote: > Does anyone recall the month and year the "World Power Systems" > scam advertisement appeared in (was it?) Byte? What was the nature of this scam? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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What computers used the AMI7200 & 7300?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Here's the information about pricing on the F14 CADC directly from Ray Holt. > To my knowledge the first set of chips were included into the > development price, however, as I remember the remainder of the initial > contract had a price tag of $250-$350 per chip. The ROM's were > probably a little less that that. In follow-on production (qty's of > 1000+) AMI had estimated chip prices to be under $100. I noticed I had > put $65 in my paper. And on some of the applications the AMI 7200 & 7300 microprocessors made their way into: > The 7200 and 7300 were used, for sure, in very high scientific > calculators and as i/o controllers for some mini's, however, I left AMI > right after the development so I did not get into who any follow-on > customers were. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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DEC RQDX3 Controller

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Could someone post the jumper settings for a RQDX3 controller? I've been trying to use my RQDX2 docs, but that won't cut it, and I can't find anything on the net. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by mbg＠world.std.com

aha... sorry about that... shows how much I've used it recently. You're right. it is a 6800... (damn) Megan

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>> alt.folklore.computers where moron was trying to convince everyone that >>if you left the 6502 running this instruction, your CPU would literally heat >Does anybody know what system is referenced in the Jargon File under HCF >as the one that could burn up its bus lines if the processor were given >the HCF instruction? I've tried the HCF instruction on my 6502-based heathkit electronics trainer (ET-????) It was neat to watch the address lines increment and wrap... But although I ran it for a long time, it didn't catch fire... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by mbg＠world.std.com

> RT-11 legal restrictions exist... > RSX-11 No idea, but I'd expect licensing again > RSTS Licensing again? They're all covered by licenses. And are available for hobbyists, but again, only for use with the Supnik emulator. So, as you said, that doesn't help people with real iron. > Unix... AVAILABLE via PUPs support group as free binaries and 100$ > license for sources. Initially this seems good but not all PDP-11 > configurations can run unix and not all versions of Unix have the > drivers to interact with some PDP-11 hardware. So it may take a lot > of work with limited tools or none to get it going. V5, V6 and V6 are available from the same site as the Supnik emulators, and I don't believe the licenses accompanying them are as strict... and yes, the license for them is only $100. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify my board

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Ah HA! I see it now George! The two edge connectors at the left & righ < edge of the board (as it faces us) are indeed the power and gnd connecti < for the Multibus. The board plugs into the P1 slot with those two 6-fing < edge conns. How dumb of me not to realize this. I haven't looked at the web page but it sounds like the board for a ICE85 used in a Intel 230 development system. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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World Power Systems scam

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > > Does anyone recall the month and year the "World Power Systems" < > > scam advertisement appeared in (was it?) Byte? < > < > What was the nature of this scam? Byte, Kilobaud and interface age were all DNP for full page ads and any customer that purchased was also part of the gig. There was nothing real about them or the product. Sphere was also considered a scam though they were real and did ship some product. They failed and took a few people. This was common back then as the industry was moving very fast. Everyone thought they could do the MITS or SWTP thing but didn't have the business skills or sometimes the design skills. I also have a copy of Microtrek that only printed one issue of the mag! Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify my board

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Ah HA! I see it now George! The two edge connectors at the left & right edge of the board (as it faces us) are indeed the power and gnd connections for the Multibus. The board plugs into the P1 slot with those two 6-finger edge conns. How dumb of me not to realize this. Man, I was looking at it from the upper edge conn. being the part to plug into the Multibus P2 connector but I was wondering how in the heck the sides of that upper edge would clear the card rack and backplane! I was thinking those 6-finger connectors were just used for I/O or something. The shape of the board is not what I'm used to seeing for Multibus boards (I've got a dozen or so of the 'traditional' style around here of various types.) Apparently I/O was handled through that edge conn. at the top of the picture, true? Thanks for this bit of info that might help me when hunting through a pile of boards at a hamfest, etc. Regards, Chris At 10:18 10/08/98 -0700, you wrote: >Your looking at an SBC 80/04 board manufactured by Intel through about >1985. Power could be obtained by plugging the board's two connectors into >the P1 slot. Again this was not a multibus board but could be plugged >into a Multibus P1 connector. > >George Rachor > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > >On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > >> < > Can someone help identify this board? It has a 8085AH CPU in the A9 >> < > socket. On the right the board says "Intel (C) 1977 MADE IN USA." On t >> < > back of the circuit board is etched "PWB1001480-03 REV H." If you wan >> < > to see what the board looks like click on my link below. >> >> Processor for a Intel model 220 development system is a good possibility. >> >> Unfortunately the copyright date on intel board has little to do with >> design and manufacture date. >> >> Allison >> >> > -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 8 months

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IBM RT machine - info pls...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i have one as well, but no keyboard so i can't test mine. i dont think you'll find anything to run on that beast these days. best to check comp.sys.ibm.pc.rt very little traffic, but there are some ontopic posts there. In a message dated 10/8/98 5:47:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net writes: > I have offered to take fairly complete RT for nothing, what it needs > is hard drive and floppy drive (I happen to have standard 1.22MB > drive and 40MB esdi to put in it). It have most of everything, 4mb > ram and serial etc I think not enough info but it did have aix > software to put on and 1 and 1.1 I think. Yes, it has monitor and > keyboard. > > Now, what exactly how useful are these RT are and alterative OSes and > software available for RT?

27 years, 8 months

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TRS-80 Model 100 (was Re: Convergent Technologies workSlate)

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

At 00:08 8/10/98 -0400, Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> wrote: >Tony Duell wrote: >> >> > thrown in. The NEC and Olivetti versions depended on external modems >> >> I have the Olivetti version - an M10, and the PCB certainly has positions >> for the internal modem components. Now, it would be quite normal for a UK >> machine not to have the modem (our CCITT tones are different from Bell >> tones at 300 baud, and there are different approval requirements), so I >> assumed that the US model had the modem fitted. > >I have never read a report or review of an M-10 with an internal modem. >And the magazines that covered the Model 100 _did_ review the Olivetti >and NEC products, but of course those magazines were rather more than >three moves ago (per Poor Richard, three removes equals one fire), but >I do recall that they all had the same Kyocera main board with minor >changes per customer. The NEC PC-8300 (updated version of the PC-8201A, with more RAM and a few improvements in ROM, such as support for XMODEM in TELCOM) had an 300 baud internal modem as an option (only available in the US). Although my PC-8300 doesn't have a modem, it does have a single loose A4 page in the manual describing how to get Wall Street stock prices on-line. Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. |

27 years, 8 months

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eBay strangeness

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

Am wondering if it is me or if everyone is experiencing this? Someone has listed an Altair 4k memory board. The eBay item number is 34468468. Whenever I go to this listing, my computer locks up. It has happened every time I have tried since earlier in the day. Only happens with this listing and no others. It seems to happen as soon as eBay starts to download the photo from the seller's web site. I have never experienced this with any other eBay auction. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Apple power supply problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< One method that I have used for years with equipment that blows fuses is < put a light bulb in line with the incoming power. Depending on the actu < correct load of the equipment determines the wattage of the bulb needed. < normal operation the bulb will light to about 1/4 to 1/2 of normal then < (typical inrush - charging caps.) If the bulb lights near fully it is This is a safe and sane method that generally results in less likelyhood of damage or injury. Some parts if "forced" may explode violently with the risk of injury or colateral damage like burnt boards. I sometime used a 110v lamp in socket with clipleads to bridge the fuse. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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VCF 2.0 t-shirts on sale [ClassicCmp discount!]

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I have a pile of VCF 2.0 t-shirts that I need to sell. Order now and get a $2 ClassicCmper discount on any shirt. If you order, make sure you tell me you're a ClassicCmper. See www.vintage.org/vcf for graphical depictions. There are still a few VCF 1.0 shirts left over. These are not listed on the page but they're going for $10 each. Buy one so you can say you were there, even if you weren't! (I'll even vouch for you if anyone questions your autheticity :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Little-known fact: The Apple 1 wasn't a 6502 machine... it was a 6502 < > 6800 machine. < < That is *very* little-known! Either somebody got sold a 6800 machine wi < an Apple 1 label on it or there needs to be some documentation for this < claim! References? Not a big secret. It's a fact and there is a jumper on the board for it. REASON: At one point MOS Tech was going to make a 6500 that was pin interchangable with the 6800 but moto took them to court. the expectation was they would make one board that could be either 6800 or 6500. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify my board

by cfandt＠netsync.net

At 21:35 10/07/98 -0700, George L. Rachor wrote: >Although not a classic Multibus board this board manufactured by Intel and >would fit in a Multibus slot. It does use the power pins from a >Multibus card slot. Beg to differ, George, but the board pictured in the URL given by Alan definitely is not Multibus! Others will also agree here who either used or have Multibus hardware in their collections like myself. I don't even recognize what the thing could possibly be. An Intel OEM controller of some sort? Relatively small quantity of chips so Alan could do like Tony D. or myself would do and trace the circuits and draw a schematic to get a better idea of function. Regards, Chris > >The model number escapes me for a moment but was still being manufactured >in 1994. Could you give us a bit more info from what you recall on this board George? > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > >On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, oajones wrote: > >> Can someone help identify this board? It has a 8085AH CPU in the A9 >> socket. On the right the board says "Intel (C) 1977 MADE IN USA." On the >> back of the circuit board is etched "PWB1001480-03 REV H." If you want >> to see what the board looks like click on my link below. >> >> http://www.bright.net/~oajones/myboard.jpg >> >> --Alan >> -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by franke＠sbs.de

> There are a handful of questions that keep getting re-hashed. > Build my SwTPC kit and play with it, or treasure it in pristine form? Ill take the burden. > Is my LSI-11 a micro, or not? Who cares > Are my XT's really classic? Of corse - I could also sell you a secon one - just $$$,$$$.$$ > Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the 6502? Geee what a great Idea - just go ahead. > Wanna buy a 1200 baud modem? No, I'm still fine with my 300 coupler SCNR H. (But I get your Idea) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders

by wanderer＠bos.nl

What kind of recorder is this? I have never seen one. Can someone tell me more about it? Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

27 years, 8 months

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Amusing: January 1993 Sun Remarketing Catalog

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

The other day I was disassembling a Lisa, and inside between the RAM boards there was a copy of the January 1993 Sun Remarketing Catalog. Here are some fun tidbits from the catalog. Anyone care to call Sun and try to order one of these part numbers? Rumor has it that Sun has a whole warehouse full of Lisa stuff that they just aren't motivated to sell. APPLE LISA Originally designed as a versatile business computer, the Lisa is more powerful than ever before. We've added new features that make it better than a Mac Plus... 800K floppy drive, 20 Mb or 40 Mb SCSI hard drive, and MacWorks Plus. LISA CPU OPTIONS - 20Mb SCSI System, $495 100-283 - 40Mb SCSI System, $545 100-481 - Macintosh XL 400K/10Mb, $395 101-140 - Macintosh XL/400K No HD, $295 101-142 - Macintosh XL/800K System, $595 101-181 - Lisa/400K Floppy System, $295 100-141 LISA ACCESSORIES - 800K internal disk drive, $159 500-800 - 2Mb RAM Upgrade, $195 200-120 - Lisa SCSI Card, $79 200-300 - Lisa SCSI Drive 20Mb, $195 501-201 - Lisa SCSI Drive 40Mb, $295 501-401 - MacWorks Plus SC, $99 402-107 - MacWorks Plus 400K, $99 402-200 - MacWorks Plus 800K, $99 402-108 LISA/MACINTOSH XL DO-IT-YOURSELF GUIDE Complete with Test Diskette The Lisa/Macintosh XL Do-It-Yourself Guide is a must for any Lisa/XL owner. The included diagnostic diskette will determine any problems that might arise be it hardware or software. If a hardware problem occurs, simply order a replacement module for the defective part and avoid costly repair bills. This manual also covers any adjustments or repairs you can make yourself. Regular Version $19 402-232 Screen Mod Version $19 402-231 Some other Sun tidbits from the catalog: MACINTOSH 128K, $195 MACINTOSH 512K, $249 MAC PORTABLE 2/40, $895 APPLE ///, $345

27 years, 8 months

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Just when you thought eBay couldn't get more ridiculous

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Just when you thought eBay couldn't get more ridiculous... Two Rockwell AIM-65's (auctioned simultaneously, ending within minutes of each other, by different sellers, weird) just sold for $406 and $472 respectively (I'll give you 3 guesses to name one of the bidders...) Kai

27 years, 8 months

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Aquarius Data Recorders

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Id pay 10 for one also, and put me down for TWO. -----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 4:19 PM Subject: RE: Aquarius Data Recorders >Well, my whole Aquarius only cost $35 with mini-expander and 3 carts, so I >guess I'd go maybe $10 on a tape drive. > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] >Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 1:50 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Aquarius Data Recorders > > >I just received an email from a local group which has 250 new in >box Aquarius cassette recorders. They are taking bids but I >suspect you can't just buy a few but would have to take the whole >lot. I have one but could use at least one more and maybe two and >it would be nice to have the box and any doc or cables. Is there >any interest in this out there? If so, how much would people be >willing to pay? Don't forget shipping costs. Let me know. BTW, >"local" in this case is Houston, TX. > > >----- >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw(a)trailingedge.com >http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

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Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/8/98 1:10 PM I just received more info on the Data Recorders... they had a "mis- communication", there are 3 pallets of 240 recorders each! 720 recorders total!!! They have agreed to let the pallets go separately. I'd like to know where they came up with these. Anyway, I guess I'll make them an offer on one pallet, I can't save them all. I guess the other 480 of them will hit the scrapers. Then I just have to figure out what to do with the remaining 220 recorders that haven't been claimed yet. >I can see it now... >Quick! Get your EXTREMELY RARE, IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND >Aquarius Data Recorder. No collector can live without one or three >or more! MINT CONDITION IN ORIGINAL BOX!! Opening bid only >$500. Move fast because I have to run 200 more auctions just like >this one. ;-) ;-) ;-) You forgot to include L@@K!!!! or maybe GASP!!! Marty ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct08.131012.1767.68580; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:10:13 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id KAA04272; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:07:39 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA60200 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:07:35 -0700 Received: from trailingedge.com (IDENT:root@trailingedge.com [208.150.226.125]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id KAA00 205 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:07:34 -0700 Received: from lovelyangel.advfilms.com (lovelyangel.advfilms.com [208.150.226.79]) by trailingedge.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA27382 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:07:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199810081707.MAA27382(a)trailingedge.com> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:07:24 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "David Williams" <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders In-Reply-To: <199810081532.KAA26709(a)trailingedge.com> References: <002401bdf2b4$5324d600$42097c18(a)thedm.lawrence.ks.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 8 months

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eBay strangeness

by wanderer＠bos.nl

>> Am wondering if it is me or if everyone is experiencing this? Someone has listed an Altair 4k memory board. The eBay item number is 34468468. Whenever I go to this listing, my computer locks up. It has happened every time I have tried since earlier in the day. Only happens with this listing and no others. It seems to happen as soon as eBay starts to download the photo from the seller's web site. I have never experienced this with any other eBay auction. Bob Wood << Hmm, I went to that item and out of the 5 pictures, only the last one did not get loaded for some reason. The pics do look very good however. Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

27 years, 8 months

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What was the first Unix micro?

by Joel＠VirtualAdmin.com

I was told about 20 years ago that it was Western Electric. They were the 2nd largest manufacturer of PDP-11 next to DEC and produced them under license for their "customer" AT&T. -----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III [mailto:gram@cnct.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:23 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: What was the first Unix micro? OK, I'm getting tired of the arguments about who made the first microprocessor. Fine. Maybe God did -- it's called DNA and as an atheist I don't grant credit to anybody. Trivia question: who made the first successful mass-produced _and_ mass-marketed (in one system) Unix hardware platform? -- Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright

27 years, 8 months

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Convergent Technologies workSlate

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:13 AM 10/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >The Model 100 OTOH is more structured around word processing, I'd say. >This could be another reason for the 100's popularity and the workSlate's >lack of popularity. The m100 has three useful programs (and two worthless ones) in ROM: BASIC, Text, and TelCom. The "operating system" consists of 4 or 5 lines of 4 columns of filenames (including the ROM based ones) which you select by moving a cursor with the arrow keys and hitting return. The other half of the OpSys was BASIC commands. What really got the m100 selling, though, IMO was the fact that it could be had at Radio Shack -- and there are (were) about a gazillion of those. How many Convergent stores were there? (Or, for that matter, NEC, Olivetti, and Kyocera, who all sold versions of the Kyocera machine that the m100 was based on.) I bought my m100 with a credit card at a Radio Shack. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Heathkit H8 vs. H-89

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Does anybody know if the H8 and H-89 were software compatible? I know < CP/M was available for the H-89 (as well as HDOS), but I've only heard < rumors of an H-8 CP/M -- maybe they're the same? They were somewhat software compatable in that the both ran 8080 based software. The H89 was z80, the H8 was 8080, they had differenet IO port and memory maps. Both had different disk formats. CPM for both could be the same in the sense that the CCP and BDOS were always the same... The bios however was likely very different as that is the part that interacts with the IO and disks. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< the other 480 of them will hit the scrapers. Then I just have to < figure out what to do with the remaining 220 recorders that haven't < been claimed yet. Are these basically portable audio recroders or something special? Please describe them. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Latets finds

by mbg＠world.std.com

>It looks like the vt62 could be equipped with an additional printer >unit. Is this correct? It takes the same thermal printer as found in the VT55... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Latets finds

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hey All, Got this weekend an Intel 8085 System Design Kit (in original box) with manuals and a Dec vt62. It looks like the vt62 could be equipped with an additional printer unit. Is this correct? Regards, Ed

27 years, 8 months

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Thrift-store goodies

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Light haul at the thrifts today, but a couple of nifties: "Computer Technicians Handbook, 3rd Edition" by Art Margolis - $0.95 Magnavox RGB 80 composite monitor - $4.95 Wyse 60, no keyboard - $4.95 Large PC board etching kit, unopened - $1.95 Aaron

27 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify my board

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Can someone help identify this board? It has a 8085AH CPU in the A9 < > socket. On the right the board says "Intel (C) 1977 MADE IN USA." On t < > back of the circuit board is etched "PWB1001480-03 REV H." If you wan < > to see what the board looks like click on my link below. Processor for a Intel model 220 development system is a good possibility. Unfortunately the copyright date on intel board has little to do with design and manufacture date. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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What was the first Unix micro?

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I second your opinion Sam. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: What was the first Unix micro? Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/7/98 11:42 PM On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > OK, I'm getting tired of the arguments about who made the first > microprocessor. Fine. Maybe God did -- it's called DNA and as an > atheist I don't grant credit to anybody. Oh, ok. God forbid we discuss computer history on this list, Ward. We'll just go away now so you can fill up the list with your pointless one-line replies. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct07.234233.1767.68426; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:42:34 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id UAA08061; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:21 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA29970 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:16 -0700 Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.54]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id UAA13 302 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:15 -0700 Received: from shell1.ncal.verio.com (dastar(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA03164 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981007203816.10432B-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: What was the first Unix micro? In-Reply-To: <361C2218.3E448C98(a)cnct.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< It looks like the only characteristic that a multi-chip implementation < partially breaks here is "highly integrated". Then again, a two-chip < implementation is not necessarily much less integrated than a single-chi < Now I wonder why this level of integration matters. Is there something < that a two-chip implementation can't do, and a single-chip can? Did < people really care about this level of space-savings to the extent that < it was worth introducing a new word into the language? The key is the limits of IC gate density of the moment. Now we can have lterally millions so complexity is very high. Back when (1970-71) teh semi houses were hitting the ceiling at about 1000 gates/2500 raw devices to a chunk of silicon. So splitting a function across two chips was not unresonable idea. It's was a reflection of *manufacturability*. < Actually, until ten minutes ago, I would have had trouble calling the < two-chip thing a microprocessor because it broke the definition I learne < as a kid: single-chip. But even the characteristic of being similar to < 4004 is relevant to the extent that you are careful in choosing which wa < it has to be similar. The first 4004's were probably in ceramic; shoul < that be part of the definition? Probably not. Why did we care about th < 4004? Is being implemented on a single chip really the important bit? < was it cost, ease of use, small size, ...? A two-chip implementation < could very well have been important to us for exactly the same reasons < that the 4004 was. The 4004 was significant at several levels. It was relatively low cost commercial product. It had a return address stack. It had a fairly large number of registers (for that time it was a very large number). There were other chips to facilitate low cost construction of dedicated systems. Being few is packages and low in numbers of pins made PCboard consturction cheap. the PMOS process used was low power compared to TTL or DTL of the time. Each one of those elements were significant relative to computer systems of the day regrdless of the type! < So, when is it useful to distinguish single-chip from, say, dual-chip? When talking at the archetecture level or when interfacing. < What kind of practical decision would someone make based on that? COST, number of pins, flexibility. The LSI-11 for example was the WD13 chip set, with differnt MICROMS it was the Alpha Micro or the WD microengine. Same chips some containing differnt microcode. If you have a LSI-11 and the rare but manufacured WCS you could acutally add instructions to your LSI-11 to suit specialized needs. This is not doable with most single chip implmentations. < BTW, was the 4004 really the first in the Intel series of 4004, 4040, < 8008, and 8080? I seem to remember that something in this sequence < actually happened in non-ascending order, like maybe the 8008 preceded < the 4004, or the 4040 came out last, or ...? It could make sense; you < could imagine scaling back an existing design to penetrate some niche < market with a cheaper part.

27 years, 8 months

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Apple power supply problems

by dburrows＠netpath.net

One method that I have used for years with equipment that blows fuses is to put a light bulb in line with the incoming power. Depending on the actual correct load of the equipment determines the wattage of the bulb needed. On normal operation the bulb will light to about 1/4 to 1/2 of normal then dim. (typical inrush - charging caps.) If the bulb lights near fully it is taking the load instead of blowing the fuse. At this time you can use a meter and find the defective component. Usual caution applies the equipment is floating if the bulb is in line with neutral. Dan Burrows dburrows(a)netpath.net -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 12:30 PM Subject: Re: Apple power supply problems >At 08:34 AM 10/8/98 -0700, Marvin wrote: >> Running it a short time with >>the fuse shorted out heated up the chip and I was able to feel where the >>problem was. Troubleshooting vs normal operation :). > >And sometimes when you do that, the dead chips will notify you >of their new condition by blowing their tops. > >- John

27 years, 8 months

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Heathkit H8 vs. H-89

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< seems though, everybody wrote assembler code so that either the s/w chec < to see which processor was used or wrote straight 8080 asm code to just < cover everybody without having the extra CPU checking code taking up spa < Most commercial language interpreters and compilers, especially from Hea < handled 8080-based machines for sure. Generally true but, not absolutley so.. however some bios used Z80 code to do disk io or used 8080 code tricks that do not run on z80. Come from having aboth an 8085 powered s100 (explorer 8085) and a slew of z80 systems. < Allison, for the H8 there were at least two third-party Z80 CPU boards m < (I can look up the mfgrs if anybody wants) and a Heath-made Z80 board. I'm well aware of them and helped several friends bring them up. < Early on when the Z80 became rather popular, the original 8080 CPU boar < was of course found to be lacking in performance compared to the TRS-80' < N*, Kaypros, various S100's and other contemporary CP/M Z80 machines. < Hence, the little cottage industry, so to speak, which sprang up to dea < with making Z80 boards. A 4 MHz CPU by DG Micro (I think that's the name I went to z80 in early 1977 as the 8080 already had a case of impending doom being limited to 2mhz and fewer instructions. The better instruction set of the z80 was enough in itself. < really was a performer up against many other machines. The H-89 was a Z8 < machine when it first was introduced around 1980 or thereabouts. Yes, h89 was mid 1980, by then the z80 had permutated the software for cpm systems. Consider that S100 system ahd all pretty much gone z80 by 1978 and the few non z80 systems were either dual processsor like Compupro 8/16 or oddball the Autocontrol AC85 (8085/5mhz). The ZCPR CCP replacement and widespread use of z80s made for major software like languages to be 8080 compatable at the expense of performance while the system would have a bios written using z80 extended. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards u < a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and cou < support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? Ram16 and RAM17 both used 6116 2kx8 but neither were configurable for 2716 Eproms. It can be done but it would be a hack. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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AES computer with 8-inch disks?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Below is a description of a system with some data to be rescued. I've already responded to the people mentioned, so there's no need to respond again. I asked for more details, if they had any: when was it used, what software did it run, whether the disk is soft- or hard-sectored. I have no idea, though, what kind of system this was. Does "AES" ring a bell with any Canadian readers? - John >>Sent from: Gilles Poitras <cowpunk(a)sirius.com> >> >>This is from a mailing list for theological librarians that I am on. >> >>Can anyone help out? >> >>>"Accelerating obsolescence" strikes again. >>> >>>Professor Dr Hans Rollmann, who supervises one of the more elegant and >>>elaborate sites on the WorldWideWeb for the Department of Religious Studies >>>at Memorial University in Newfoundland, has found some important primary >>>data that he hopes to mount with other texts on the site. These data are >>>imprisoned on 8-inch computer disks that were made on an AES computer, >>>apparently in the 1980s. No printed record of the material survives; only >>>the 8-inch disks remain. No AES computer or 8-inch drive exists at Memorial >>>University; the technical services people from the Computing Sciences >>>Department tried to build an 8-inch drive from spare parts, but came up >>>short. The intellectual content frozen in this "obsolete" technology >>>remains unreadable. >>> >>>Does anyone know the whereabouts of an intact AES computer? Failing that, >>>is there any available information about these machines? What did the >>>acronym AES stand for? Where was it built? Most important, what operating >>>system did it use? What word processing software might have been loaded? >>> >>>Has anyone preserved any computer with an 8-inch disk drive? As I recall, >>>both Commodore and Atari used 8-inch drives. >>> >>>Anyone who has useful information on this problem can communicate with >>>Professor Rollmann at >>> >>> hrollman(a)morgan.ucs.mun.ca >>> >>>Those who may be interested in his religious studies web site can begin >>>sifting through its many layers at >>> >>> http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~hrollman >>> >>>Professor Rollmann will be grateful for any assistance anyone can offer. >>>The rest of us need to be sure that any intellectual material we >>>"catalogue" can also be "read."

27 years, 8 months

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North Star Horizon Help

by bobstek＠ix5.ix.netcom.com

I have a manual for the N* HRAM series which I'd be happy to copy and send you - email me. There are some differences between revision B and E boards and there are lots of jumper options. In summary, S1 and S2 select the active memory areas, JP1 selects the bank status on reset and selects I/O control bits for bank switching and parity, JP2 selects areas to be bank switched, JP3 selects the parity error response, JP4 implements the First Quadrant option (only revision E 48K version), and JP6 is reserved (no jumper). Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs (and the occasional Horizon)

27 years, 8 months

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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Jim and all, At 10:50 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Can anyone confirm this vague memory, or set me straight? > >I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards used >a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and could >support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? > >And if true, was there any special configuration that needed to be done for >the 2716s? > A 6116 is a 2kx8 static ram. The only difference in its pinout from a 2716 is pin 21. For the 6116 it is /write enable (active low). For the 2716 it is V(program). For read it is tied to 5V, it needs a higher voltage and current, up to 5mA, so just a TTL "1" isn't enough. Can you jumper this pin to +5 volts? -Dave

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Hey, several threads just coalesced in my head. (Ouch!) There are a handful of questions that keep getting re-hashed. Build my SwTPC kit and play with it, or treasure it in pristine form? Is my LSI-11 a micro, or not? Are my XT's really classic? Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the 6502? Wanna buy a 1200 baud modem? The problem is that we have so many different backgrounds and goals, everybody has different answers to those. So, when these questions come up, maybe instead of arguing about the right answers, we could gain more by digging backwards to the *reasons* for the different answers. Here are my two cents: Most of my stupid sample questions revolve around differing valuations. Sources of value. 1. Nostalgia I had/wanted one of these once. 2. Education This is really different from stuff I already know. 3. Preservationism There are only three left on the entire planet. If I don't protect it, soon there won't be any. 4. Usability I make practical use of it. 5. Money There are only three left on the entire planet. Somebody must be willing to pay a lot for it. .. any more? So building a Heathkit is good for reasons 1, 2, and 4; and bad on 3 and 5. In my own collection, different items hit different buttons. I play games on my Radio Shack Color Computers, so they hit button 4. I also hack around in machine code on them, so they hit button 2. And I've done quite a bit of work with 6809's, so they hit button 1 as well. (No wonder I have such a pile of CoCos!) My SwTPC kit is still unbuilt for reason 3. It doesn't hit buttons 1 or 2 so hard because I also have an assembled one which covers those nicely. (Man, I'm a lucky guy!) And it seems my own button 5 isn't connected to anything. But other peoples' seem to work just fine. The one sample question still unanswered is a definition thing. So maybe the root question should be, why is one definition better than another? I learned the definition of microprocessor to be a single-chip CPU, and a microcomputer to be a computer based on a microprocessor. But I never questioned it. Why is that a useful definition? Maybe it is a measure of how hard it would be to build a system around it. Which in turn could be correlated with cost, and so with popularity. By that reasoning, if you get the same functionality out of a smallish chip-set as a single chip, and the price is the same, both should be considered as micros. Or maybe it has more to do with physical size of the end result; if you have a single chip instead of four, it leaves you with more room to put the rest of the computer on that same PC board. Maybe that could be really important for hobbyists. (I know my own attempts at homebrewing were all SBC's.) But there is a red herring in all this. External VLSI support chips are a convenience. You could have built an 8080 system without the 8228. You would just use a boatload of TTL instead. So again, the issue is probably just cost of doing so (money, time, space). Was the 8080 more expensive in any way because of the 8228's existance? No. Was it any less of a microcomputer? Either the 8228 was enough of an improvement over the boatload of TTL that it made 8080 systems doable (ie, made it a micro), or maybe the lack of the 8228 circuitry in the 8080 chip itself still made it impractical for some (ie, made it a non-micro). It depends on where your thresholds are. You can still argue about whether or not the 8080 without an 8228 is a complete CPU, but my point is that this may not be worth arguing. What is the practical impact of having the entire CPU on one chip vs. two? How does it change anyone's behaviour? *That* could be worth some discussion. I have my own ideas about which things are micros and which are not, but in retrospect, the definition that I was taught is not a useful one; it does not classify things into categories that I can use to any benefit. Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 8 months

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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards used >a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and could >support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? True! The part is the Hitachi (or compatible) 6116P-2. >And if true, was there any special configuration that needed to be done for >the 2716s? It depends on the exact board; most boards that would take either had a jumper per socket to set RAM vs EPROM. Which board are you specifically interested in? When I bought out the stock of the last remaining Compupro dealer I ended up with most of the manuals in addition to hundreds of boards... This feature certainly wasn't confined to Compupro; there were several dozen other manufacturers of memory boards that did this, too. Most of the time the jumpers are pretty obvious, though some weren't below requiring the user to do PC board surgery. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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RT-11 on 8" media

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

> Is there available on the Web this info? Probably, but the authoratitive source for this sort of thing is the manual that matches the version of RT you're interested in. > Also, I have an 11/73 with RT-11SJ V5.0.... it has an 8" drive. >What would I have to do to make a bootable minimal floppy on this >machine? In other words how few files can one get away with to wake >up a PDP11 with only an RX02 clone as it's mass storage? That's easy: SWAP.SYS, TT.SYS, DY.SYS (or DX.SYS or whatever driver your hardware uses for the 8" drive), and a monitor (RT11SJ.SYS). This gives you a bootable minimal floppy which is capable of doing very little :-). Almost certainly you want to put PIP, DIR, DUP, FORMAT, and other useful "recovery utilities" on as well (BUP if you use it, your favorite editor, etc.). And certainly the drivers for any other devices you may be interested in. And, of course, after putting the files on the floppy, you want to make it hardware bootable too! COPY/BOOT DY:RT11SJ DY:, for example. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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Latets finds

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> It looks like the vt62 could be equipped with an additional printer >>> unit. Is this correct? > I believe the VT62 is somewhat related to the VT52. The VT62 is a VT52 with inverse video. thats all. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Latest finds

by franke＠sbs.de

> I got the kit for 50 guilders ($25), which is not a bad price if > you ask me for such a near complete kit. As for the moment, I don't > ha

27 years, 8 months

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New Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Today I walked into a thrift store and found a stack of Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, and others going back to 1974. I got real excited thinking I would find that had Altair on the cover (does anyone remember which issue that was ?), but no luck. I did get a October 1977 issue that covers home computers for $595. In it were pictures and write-ups on the following: Commodore PET Heath H-8 (article says new H-11 uses DEC LSI-1) Radio Shack model 1 Altair 8800 Single-board 8084 from IMSAI Southwest Technical's 6800 Sol Terminal Computer Technical Design Labs Z-80 Xitan Compucolor The Digital Group Cromeco Z-2 Poly 88 from PolyMorphic Vector Graphic Vector 1+ Challenger System from OSI EPA 6800 with hexidecimal keyboard There were many more mentioned in the article, all together I purchased 12 different issues at 7 cents each. Got a few manuals for cpu's, software, and printers all for 7 cents each. Got three apple IIc power supplies for $1 each along with various commodore power supplies for the same price. As soon as someone can tell me the right issue I will go back looking for it. John

27 years, 8 months

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