- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: CRT decay Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/31/98 11:05 PM >I've got an old CRT that is decaying along the glass edges. Are you saying the phosphor is peeling off the inside of the tube, the aquedag peeling off, or is the glass actually deteriorating? I've never seen glass deteriorate and have some television kinescopes (CRT's) which are close to sixty years old and show no sign of decay, including the aquedag and phosphor. Marty I've seen foam turn to dust, rubber turn to goo, batteries turn to acid, but I hadn't expected CRT glass to revert to sand. Sam tells me that he's seen something similar on his Soroc terminal. What process is causing this? Isn't glass basically SiO2? I assume it's crystalizing rather than oxidizing. Anything I can do to prevent it from occurring on other tubes? Any interesting risks associated with firing an electron gun at this crystalized stuff with no remaining phosphor? -- Doug ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct31.230501.1767.74354; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 23:05:01 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id UAA20225; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:02:52 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA23226 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:02:48 -0800 Received: from behemoth.host4u.net (behemoth.host4u.net [209.150.128.29]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id UAA25 293 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:02:48 -0800 Received: from localhost (yowza@localhost) by behemoth.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA21696 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 22:02:47 -0600 Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.95.981031214459.29291I-100000(a)behemoth.host4u.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 22:02:44 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: CRT decay In-Reply-To: <m0zZoMa-000IyMC@p850ug1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Sender: yowza(a)behemoth.host4u.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 6 months

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About VCF 2.0 and system design

by franke＠sbs.de

>> be helpfull. Do you have some, ode do you know someone who does ? > Yes. Don Maslin, who reads this list, will send you CP/M and a bunch of > other disks. He has almost every CP/M disk format known to man -- he does > a great job. Do you have his eMail address, so I could mail him ? > There were a couple different models of the Kaypro 4 (Kaypro reused their > model numbers even after making major internal design changes -- I detest this > practice of reusing model numbers; so far Kaypro is the only company I've seen > that does this). I think each needs a different version of CP/M. I think this is better then just anounce every other month a 'new' model, while they changed only som screws. > Take the case off, and look for a number like 8x-xxx-x on one or more of the > chips on the motherboard. The last x may be a letter (probably A) or a number > or might not be there at all. Kaypro's part-numbering system was rather > erratic, it seems. > 81-240 original (1983? maybe 1982) Kaypro 4 > 81-232 1983 Kaypro 4 > 81-184 1984 Kaypro 4 (a.k.a. Kaypro 4'84) > 81-292 1984 Kaypro 4 (newest ROM version for this machine) > 81-296 Kaypro 4X (with super-high-density floppies) > 81-146 character ROM > 81-187 character ROM > 81-235 character ROM On the Backside ther's some type number: 81-015 (if I remember right) I don't know if it's for the whole machine or what and can't see it fiting in your sceme. Thank you Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

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Pinouts

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

an excellent source of pinouts for apple ][ connectors is the apple service technical procedures peripheral interface guide. I have this book and it has the pinouts and peripheral configurations for every apple model and peripheral from the apple ][ through the lisa and mac II. this book also provides cable specs as well so one can make his own cable also. this book would have some valuable info for everyone if there was an easy way to copy it. david In a message dated 11/2/98 4:33:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time, dastar(a)ncal.verio.com writes: > I have the pinouts for the Apple ][ bus among other connectors inside the > Apple ][ and don't know where to submit it (and sorry for this public > posting but I don't know Aaron's e-mail address). > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic. > com

27 years, 6 months

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Repair strategy (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by franke＠sbs.de

> < enough to open a PSU. I read in a book once that opening a PSU will > < cause damage to a special layer that prevents interference from the > < PSU to the motherboard. I haven't been able to substantiate this... > If that doesn't sound bogus to you I have swampland in florida to > sell you. It's bogus. Nono, always remember, The robots that closed the PSU have been especialy trained to do it the right way - if you just close the cover you might confuse the electrons ! And I have some nice land along the Main river in Franken real cheap, you may only have to wait until the 4 feet (1.1m) of water are gone ... Gruss Hans P.S.: The part about the water is true. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

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Xpost: person wants CoCo schematics

by blakeman＠creative-net.net

This person left this message on the Obsolete Computer Helpline. If anyone can help, please write him directly at his email address in Brazil, not to me. ---------------------------- Danilo R. Costa <danilofilho(a)uol.com.br> Rio de Janeiro, RJ Brazil - Sunday, November 01, 1998 at 19:27:22 I'sorry but I dont speak English. I need a schematic diagram of the TRS Color Computer ( Coco 1 or 2). You can help me? Thanks

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

the drive was indeed mfm. the models 50 and 70 had drives that connected to a riser card which then went to the planar. there were no cables on the 50 or 70. david In a message dated 11/2/98 10:30:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time, roblwill(a)usaor.net writes: > The PS/2 Model 30=286 didn't have a cable going to the riser card in it, > nor was it an MCA machine. It was an ISA machine, and The HD plugged into > the motherboard via ribbon cable. I'm not even sure if it was an ESDI > drive. I think it was just an MFM that had everything (including power) on > one cable. > > -Jason

27 years, 6 months

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Classic != IBM AT

by roblwill＠usaor.net

The PS/2 Model 30=286 didn't have a cable going to the riser card in it, nor was it an MCA machine. It was an ISA machine, and The HD plugged into the motherboard via ribbon cable. I'm not even sure if it was an ESDI drive. I think it was just an MFM that had everything (including power) on one cable. -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ ---------- > From: John Rollins <rexstout(a)uswest.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: RE: Classic != IBM AT > Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 8:26 PM > > > Hmm.. Would the 486 system I had a while back count? I forget who made it, > model A3000. 486DX/33 AMD CPU and FPU and some other chips were on a small > daughterboard that fit into a slot in the front of the computer, which > interfaced to an MCA slot... Now that's gotta be wierd for anything. > Closest thing to that I can think of is the hard drives IBM used in some > PS/2's that interfaced directly to the MCA bus(interface built in to the > drive's controller board with a cable going to the MCA riser card in the > Model 30-286 and maybe the 55sx too). That 486 was fun, wish I still had > it... :-| > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY | > | ham-mac(a)qth.net Portland, OR | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > >

27 years, 6 months

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Pinouts

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Was it Aaron Finney who was doing the Pinout collection? I have the pinouts for the Apple ][ bus among other connectors inside the Apple ][ and don't know where to submit it (and sorry for this public posting but I don't know Aaron's e-mail address). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 6 months

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Corvus Concept (was Re: PDP-11/44 boot prompt)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Mitch Wright <mew_jac(a)swbell.net> wrote: > Brings up another topic: Anybody got a Corvus Concept? Yes. What, pray tell, were you up to with them? -Frank McConnell

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I consider anything that was marketed as a personal computer a personal computer. I would not consider the PDP a personal computer if I had one because it's not a personal computer. If you used a sedan to haul around heavy things, would you call it a truck? >>operate. If I could find a SYS/360 or SYS370, or Sigma/7 or Sigma/9 or > >That's exactly how I've viewed it as well. When I told people that >my personal computer was a pdp-11/93 or a uVax system, they generally >balked at the idea, though. I've had to remind them that it is a >computer (that's never in question), and that I own it and use it. >Hence a *personal* computer... And although I didn't have one back >when the Imsai became available, I did get my first one (an 11/10) >in 1980. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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definition of personal computer

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Of course, you may own a Cray 1 as your personal computer (used in the >"accepted" meaning of personal property), but that doesn't make a Cray 1 >a "personal computer" in the taxonomical sense. Let me offer that when a person talks about a 'personal computer', it can be *anything*, including a cray-1. If, however, they talk about a 'peecee', then it probably means what you are referring to above. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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Computer cassettes

by KFergason＠aol.com

There is (or was, I haven't been by there in a while) a Radio Shack outlet type store at Gessner and I-10 here in Houston. I have no idea what they sell there, as I lived less than 2 miles from the place for 6 years, and never went. :-) Kelly In a message dated 11/1/98 6:35:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, gram(a)cnct.com writes: > > However, can you tell me more about the liquidation center? Do they have > any > > big items like computers? And do you know where the other location is? > > > > Maybe one of the ex-Radio Shack people should join in on this topic. > > More than five years with the company (starting 18 years ago tomorrow > now that I think of it), never heard of such centers. Must be since > my time. >

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I suspect that you have several. Hence, what is currently in your >repository? Several machines? Yes... follow the link on my web page to my list of home systems to see what I have up and running... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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CRT decay

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

In a computer lab at my school, there is an NEC Multisync 17+ monitor. When off, fingerprints are visible on the surface. I guess it has some kind of finish that got eroded by skin oil. Could this be similar? What is this CRT from again? >> > I've got an old CRT that is decaying along the glass edges. >> >> Are you _sure_. Glass is normally pretty stable, and if it was really >> decaying I would have expected the CRT to have imploded. There's about >> 1/2 a ton of force on the screen of even small CRTs. > >No, I'm not sure. When I first saw it, I thought mold was growing along >the edges, but closer examination showed that that "growth" was inside the >glass, and the patterns were somewhat crystaline. I'll let you know if >it spontaneously implodes. > >> However, there are CRTs that are made with a laminated glass faceplate - > >That's probably it. I saw beads along the edge, so it must be the plastic >that is crystalizing. I'll still let you know when it spontaneously >implodes, though :-) > >> No remaining phosphor? This is strange... What on earth is going on? > >It's possible that the phosphor was simply hidden by the now-opaque >plastic crystal. > >So, how do you detect these laminated CRTs, and can they be sealed to >prevent this type of decay? > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I know about that. A ROM-based debugger would be helpful if I don't < have a bootable system. helpful with what? Even a rom based debugger presumes there are some system resources that work. For a PC that would mean keyboard, video, some ram and of course the rom plus some of the glue hardware. In reality the only thin not working at that point is the floppy/hard disks. Also most debug monitors are minimalistic and assumptions are you have sources for what your debugging and prints if hardware. For a PC that is not likely. For a PDP-11 and most of the systems I listed before that is likely or at least so to the module level. Different systems concept. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I had not realized that the TU-58 was normally an internal unit. The < one I picked up some years ago was an external unit. Perhaps it came < from a VAX 750 rather than a PDP-11/44 which is what I thought < I had remembered. it was available both ways. It was used in the 11/44, PDT-11/130, VAX 11/730 and 750s as internal. The unit was also available as external. < Any idea of where that "C" source code is? It might be necessary to < replace the TU-58. I forget where but it's flakey code. It was written to run on a unix box. The file I have is TU58-emu.zip. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Yes, that is true. The problem is that I am afraid that the TU-58 I < have is showing signs of problems and I wanted to have a spare < if that was possible. Do anyone have a spare external TU-58 < available? I don't likely have much use for the TU-58 more < than once or twice a year, but I can't predict when it might happen < again. TU58s have two problems, dirty heads and drive roller turning to gum. The first is a cleaning problem. The second is age related. I have a fix for the later. Basically it involoves removing the drive hub, scraping the gunk off it and using PVC or rubber tubing to replace the rubber part. < As far as RT-11 is concerned, I actually saw RT-11 run on the TU-58, < but at the time, the TU-58 was connected to a PC running an Running the real thing is more fun. < But, then the other version of RT-11 was V5.4G which had been < patched to make it Year 2000 compatible. So, there was an < actual 20 year old tape drive that looks like a disk drive under RT being quite old is an enigma in that it keeps going! Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >or with any of the other PDP-11/44 systems, I am looking for a TU-58 < >tape drive which I understand came as an external unit with this system < < I know on mine, it's located in the same rack as the CPU and the RX02 < drives. It's not external. They did make external ones, though I don' < have one. It was internal and primary use was diagnostis as it was on a serial line making it the easiest thing to bring up. Also the 11/44 interface was slow for some reason and the TU58 was limited to 4800 baud or the 44 would lose data. < >Does anyone have one that they are not using? I understand they were < >used for diagnostics and if the tapes and manuals are still available, < >might still be useful. Otherwise, I have some old tapes I would like t < >read. I have several but I do use them. I can read tape and transfer to RX01/2. This is assumeing the tapes are still good (binder isn't flaking). < It's possible to run RT-11 off of them, which I believe is where the < external drive came into play. Yes, I have an 11/23 with an external TU58 that runs RT11. The one internal to the 44 could also run RT if memory serves. RT11/TU58 expects a DL compatable serial line to use the DD driver.

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by dogas＠leading.net

>'Some X has Y' does not prove that 'All X have Y'. Not to mention the Ys that you cant get to from any X.... *momentary Godel possesion* I couldnt resist. My apologies. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

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definition of personal computer

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote: > "Personal Computer" is such a worthless term; we should throw it out. > Because even the timeshare computers could be used "personally" if someone > hacked in and killed all the other users' processes. :WARN @;BACKUP STARTING IN 5 MINUTES Hacked in? I'll have you know I had full authority to abort their sessions. I was the operator, after all, and we had a scheduled time for the backup. Same time every night and I gave them 20 minutes notice (and again at 15, 10, 5, 1, and 0). It wasn't my problem if they didn't want to stick around 'til I was willing to let them log on again. And if I may say so, an HP3000 Series III made a damn fine personal computer. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by hhacker＠gte.net

Wrong. I have forgotten the address to poke (or is it peek - some such action) which causes the AppleII (original, +, and E) to enter the system monitor software. Therein it is easily possible to manipulate all manner of system features and memory contents. If you need the exact information thus, I shall extract it from the manuals, etc that remain in my possession. I own a II+ and a II E, since it is only upon such machines that I may execute the Apple Worm (as published in the May 1985 issue of Scientific American, Computer Recreations column) which I wrote so many years ago. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: D. Peschel <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 5:38 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11/44 boot prompt >> "Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> > I mentioned that all Apple computers have debuggers/monitors. >> >> That's certainly not true. > >You need to substantiate your claim. Which Apple computers don't have ROM >debuggers or monitors? > >-- Derek > > >

27 years, 6 months

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definition of personal computer

by hhacker＠gte.net

I know perfectly well the accepted definition of personal computer but, language is as much subjective as objective. So, though society may subscribe to a specific definition, there is no reason to assume that all persons of that society also agree to subscribe. After all, this is not France, and we have no national language police. Nevertheless, your point is well taken. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 1:48 PM Subject: Re: definition of personal computer >> > For me, a personal computer is defined as any computer that I own >> > and operate. > >Is it time again for our weekly semantics game already? OK! > >Personal Computer: a computer small enough for one person to easily >transport, cheap enough for one person to easily afford, and simple enough >for one person to operate (i.e., interactive). The first personal >computer was Edmund Berkeley's GENIAC from around 1955. > >-- Doug >

27 years, 6 months

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A record?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I'd like to put forward a documented record of hauling a PDP 11/45 and TU-10 tape drive and separate racks up two flights of stairs into a third floor apartment between three people. I'm sure someone will challenge this record and put it to shame, but I was impressed with the feat. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 6 months

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CRT decay

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< There shoudln't be any extra hazard from firing electrons at the screen, < but I am still _very_ curious as to what's happening. I've used 40 or 50 < year old CRTs with no problems, you see. I have two O'scope crts (3BP1 and a 2AP1) that are still good (they were purchased as military surplus when I was a teen for homebrew use) and neither were made much later than 1958 (maybe much older!). I know they work as the scopes I built with them still operate! The glass doesn't decay. If the phosphor is peeling it may be that someone has vented the tube to remove the implosion hazard. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by hhacker＠gte.net

I suspect that you have several. Hence, what is currently in your repository? One interesting piece I have is a MicroWay 80860 board. It is generally described as a single chip Cray 1, and can in bursts (perhaps at greater rates) compute at 80MFLOPS on a 40MHz clock. As it happens, this processor is not quite fast enough but, with about 10 times the power, one could watch movies of flights about the Mandelbrot set in real time at about 1600 by 1280 pixels in 24 bit color. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 2:21 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11/44 boot prompt > >>For me, a personal computer is defined as any computer that I own and >>operate. If I could find a SYS/360 or SYS370, or Sigma/7 or Sigma/9 or > >That's exactly how I've viewed it as well. When I told people that >my personal computer was a pdp-11/93 or a uVax system, they generally >balked at the idea, though. I've had to remind them that it is a >computer (that's never in question), and that I own it and use it. >Hence a *personal* computer... And although I didn't have one back >when the Imsai became available, I did get my first one (an 11/10) >in 1980. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > >

27 years, 6 months

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Computer cassettes

by dogas＠leading.net

>Do they have any old laptop parts? Such as a HardDrive controller for a >1400HD? > i'll check the next time I'm there (in a few days...) I'll let you know... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

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Today has been a good day for communication.

by hhacker＠gte.net

Just wanted to say thank you to all. Today has been especially active, and it is good to see that much participation. William R. Buckley

27 years, 6 months

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Computer cassettes

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Do they have any old laptop parts? Such as a HardDrive controller for a 1400HD? I know the 1400 isn't quite on-topic (1989), but I use it to keep all the records for my other (over 10-yrs old) computers on. Now the HD controller went, and I can't open anything (can't even boot the computer). Does that make it on topic? ThAnX, -Jason (making a desperate attempt to stay OT) *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ ---------- > From: Mike <dogas(a)leading.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Computer cassettes > Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 7:37 PM > > Hi. > ] > I live in Jacksonville, one of the two sites nationally of a Radio Shack > Liquidation Center.... this weekend I picked up 40 new and sealed C-10 > leaderless certified computer cassette tapes for .25 apiece.... Anybody > nead a few? > > Mike: dogas(a)leading.net >

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Well, not to put too fine a line on it, all modern PC's have a built-in < debugger. The Pentium has a built-in debug mode and brings the debug po < out on the pins. I don't know of any PC maker that includes a debug por has everyone forgotten POST codes already? All you need is a fairly cheap card to display them. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Computer cassettes

by dogas＠leading.net

Hi. ] I live in Jacksonville, one of the two sites nationally of a Radio Shack Liquidation Center.... this weekend I picked up 40 new and sealed C-10 leaderless certified computer cassette tapes for .25 apiece.... Anybody nead a few? Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

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definition of personal computer

by hhacker＠gte.net

Right on! -----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 5:19 PM Subject: Re: definition of personal computer >Personal computer: Any computer owned by a single individual rather than a >corporation or government entity. Alternately any computer with a low enough >aquisition and operation cost to BE owned by an individual. This fits this >group best, since especially the mini and mainframe collectors >have such animals as their "personal computers". > >The semantics become simple. >"What is this cray 1 you have in the basement?" >"It's my personal computer." > >The fact that they're also supers, mainframes, minis, or micros becomes >irrelivant. > >:) > > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >-----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< personal computer. I would not consider the PDP a personal computer if < I had one because it's not a personal computer. If you used a sedan But, there were versions of the PDP-11 that were marketed as personal computers. I can name not less than three different offering that were desktop, personal, single user computers. < to haul around heavy things, would you call it a truck? No but it was never anything else nor could it be other than a taxi! The problem is the computers were never called trucks or sedans. Small computers that fit on a desk and are generally single user and affordable by the then current standard were "personal computers". Oh, a PC with an eithernet connection to a host is a WORKSTATION and that is a valid use of the term. The very flexibility and usefulness of small (desktop or deskside) computers lent them to many different descriptions, names and uses most overlaping. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< That is also a nice ability. But, BASIC isn't present in 386+ PCs. < Does anyone know if there is some kind of commercial solution to this? It's called POST, the last time I bought a POST board it was 59$ and that was 3 years ago. it displays a two digit code that points to the failed subsystem. IBM systems also displayed a code to the CRT (if working) that also told the problem. Generally I've troubleshot PCs with nothing more than a VOM. Frequently less. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Repair strategy (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< But whatever. It still doesn't explain why VCRs are always repaired to < component level (and I've worked on VCRs with PQFP chips, multilayer < boards, etc in them) and computers almost never are. Sure it may make < sense _sometimes_ to change the module. But not always. Here being the USA a VCR is $79 to $499, at 499 you repair, at 79 unless the problem is trivial it's a junker. NOTE: I'd used the term cost of repair exceeds value of unit before. The average motherboard for 386 and later machines it's unlikely to find 1488/9s on it or the such. Then again fixing a damaged connector or fried HCT244 may make sense. but if it's more than that, pull all the socketed stuff and trash it as I can get used or new before I'll find a replacement for the 84pin PQFP. I've been through the exercize with a 386/486 clone board that the external cache failed on. All I could do with it was disable the external cache, pull the cache rams (they were all good) as it as it was apparently one of the 84pin whatevers that developed a singular failure. At the time of the failure the cost for a new 486 board sans cpu was 69$ with twice the cache ram I had installed. I was able to keep it going at reduced performance but repair was not possible unless I found a similar clone and did a chip swap. IE: Cost of repair... Eventually the board was torched to remove all the usable components like the SIP resistors, clock cans, connectors and the like. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

But if there's an error, isn't the post code displayed (if the display works)? >< Well, not to put too fine a line on it, all modern PC's have a built-in >< debugger. The Pentium has a built-in debug mode and brings the debug po >< out on the pins. I don't know of any PC maker that includes a debug por > >has everyone forgotten POST codes already? All you need is a fairly >cheap card to display them. > >Allison > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

That's right. It's a personal computer, but not because someone has it in their house. I left out the model number on 'PDP' because I'm not familiar with them, but several said that their PDP-11/?? were personal computers just because they had it in their house. >> I consider anything that was marketed as a personal computer a >> personal computer. I would not consider the PDP a personal computer if >> I had one because it's not a personal computer. > >By your own criteria, the original PDP-8 *is* a personal computer. DEC >specifically marketed it based on the it being small enough that someone >could transport it in their automobile (specifically, a Volkswagen), and >cheap enough that someone could afford it. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

That is also a nice ability. But, BASIC isn't present in 386+ PCs. Does anyone know if there is some kind of commercial solution to this? >>< It's too bad most micros don't have a debugger in ROM. Except for >>< computers made by Apple, I don't know of any. >>Sorry, I meant home personal computers. PDPs, IMSAIs, various >>development systems don't count. Satisfied? > >Most early "home computers" do have the functionality of a >debugger in ROM - they just take decimal numbers, not Hex/Octal, and >require you to type PEEK and POKE :-). > >Tim. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, I know all Apple ][s had monitors, and I haven't seen a mac that doesn't have a debugger. Not sure about the Apple I and /// >"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> I mentioned that all Apple computers have debuggers/monitors. > >That's certainly not true. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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Apple Lisa and Apple IIC LCD Display

by roblwill＠usaor.net

You know, it may have been better if this stuff was offered BEFORE it was put on ePay. What's the sense of 'offering' it to everyone on the list when they have to go through ePay anyway? All this basically is is an advertisement. -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ ---------- > From: Greg Mast <gmast(a)polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: FA: Apple Lisa and Apple IIC LCD Display > Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 4:24 PM > > I was a member of this list for quite a while but the mail load got to > be too much for my school account. > > I have placed an Apple Lisa on the eBay auction today. I'm selling it > for a friend. The bidding ends on Sunday the 8th of November. It has a > noisy drive and the monitor doesn't come on. The guy selling it doesn't > want to put any work into it so it's sold as-is. > > I posted some pictures at my page: > http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast/sfs/lisa/lisa.html > > I think this system will go for a good price. It will sell regardless. > If this post offends anyone, I apologize but I know some people here > might want one of these for their collection and this might be a good > opportunity. > > For more info, check out the auction listing at: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=39295177 > > and check out the pictures at the link above. > > I also listed one of those LCD displays for the Apple IIc. It's in great > shape. The auction is at: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=39285574 > > The bidding must take place through the auction now that I've listed > them. > > Bidding is free but you must register with the auction. > > Thanks, > > Greg

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< From: mbg(a)world.std.com (Megan) < < That's exactly how I've viewed it as well. When I told people that < my personal computer was a pdp-11/93 or a uVax system, they generally < balked at the idea, though. I've had to remind them that it is a < computer (that's never in question), and that I own it and use it. < Hence a *personal* computer... And although I didn't have one back What I called a "personal computer" In early 1975 it was an Altair8800. In 1976 I added a COSMAC ELF. In 1977 a SC/MP, Motorola 6800D1 were added. In 1978 A North*star Horizon was the mainstay s100 crate and a Technico 9900 starter board. In 1979 A Netronics explorer8085 was added to the collection. in 1980 I would add a TK80 SBC and a IMSAI IMP48. In 1981 a LSI-11 became mine. The idea of a personal computer for me is quite old and predates even the Altair. However, I would not own a "PC" (upper case denotes them IBM and clone things) of my own until 1991, even then it was an XT class clone (still have that too!)! Oh, FASWE applies with here... FASWE = First Aquired Stays With Me. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I think he means ROM Monitor, from personal experience I know it's nice < have a ROM monitor that you can drop into and exercise the Hardware if < don't have any boot media. < < Then again, why that would be helpful on a PC where you can get DOS with < even trying, I don't know why it would be helpful. Exactly! On a PC to run any code (even a rom debugger) enough resources have to be there to nearly boot it. besides for hardware debug there are POST and other codes. Of course if someone wanted a debugger in rom most PCs still socket the BIOS roms. it's a matter of codeing it up and adding the needed device interfaces. On the whole not that useful. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Besides Allison mentioned the IBM PC with ROM BASIC, and I've used a Zen < Z248 (a 286) with a ROM Monitor that you can drop into, both of these ar < definitly not developement machines. My NeXT slab had a ROM based monit I think the z100 also had one. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Sorry, I meant home personal computers. PDPs, IMSAIs, various < development systems don't count. Satisfied? < >SWTP 6800 < >ALTAIR-8800b (the front pannel is in a 1702 prom!) < >Godbout 8080/front pannel replacement (octal keypad!) < >Netronics Exploror 8085 < >CCS 2200 series s100 crate < >Heath H8 < >Micromint SB180 (z180) All of which are personal computers of that era and beyond! If you ment the IBM PC and clones you have to be a bit more specfic. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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definition of personal computer

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, 2 November 1998 11:11 Subject: Re: definition of personal computer >That at least reduces the number of terms we have to argue about by one >(there's still "micro", "mini", "workstation", etc.) I have semantic difficulty occasionally when describing my Vax 6000 as a "mini-computer" Considering it weighs in at 300+kg and is taller than my wife, it's mini only in comparison to something truly gigantic. IBM 360's or the like. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by mbg＠world.std.com

>For me, a personal computer is defined as any computer that I own and >operate. If I could find a SYS/360 or SYS370, or Sigma/7 or Sigma/9 or That's exactly how I've viewed it as well. When I told people that my personal computer was a pdp-11/93 or a uVax system, they generally balked at the idea, though. I've had to remind them that it is a computer (that's never in question), and that I own it and use it. Hence a *personal* computer... And although I didn't have one back when the Imsai became available, I did get my first one (an 11/10) in 1980. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sorry, I meant home personal computers. PDPs, IMSAIs, various development systems don't count. Satisfied? >< It's too bad most micros don't have a debugger in ROM. Except for >< computers made by Apple, I don't know of any. I especially wish the >< PC had a ROM debugger. It would really help me feel like I'm using a >< worthwhile machine. > >Shows what you don't know. Non exhaustive list of micros with debug roms: > >PDP-11/03, 11/23, 11/73, 11/83, 11/84 (most all the non front pannel 11s) > >SC/MP >IMSAI IMP-48 >Kim-1 >SYM-1 >AMI EV68 series >Motorola 6800D1 and D2 >intel SDK-80/85/88 >SWTP 6800 >ALTAIR-8800b (the front pannel is in a 1702 prom!) >Godbout 8080/front pannel replacement (octal keypad!) >Netronics Exploror 8085 >CCS 2200 series s100 crate >Heath H8 >Micromint SB180 (z180) >Intel MDS-800 >Intel MCS-8 (8008) >MicroVAX series including VS2000, 3100, 4000 and others. > >I am very certain I've left a truckload of them off. > >Also if the PC had rom basic there are instruction in basic that allow >access to memory, IO and machine language subroutines. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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FA: Apple Lisa and Apple IIC LCD Display

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I was a member of this list for quite a while but the mail load got to be too much for my school account. I have placed an Apple Lisa on the eBay auction today. I'm selling it for a friend. The bidding ends on Sunday the 8th of November. It has a noisy drive and the monitor doesn't come on. The guy selling it doesn't want to put any work into it so it's sold as-is. I posted some pictures at my page: http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast/sfs/lisa/lisa.html I think this system will go for a good price. It will sell regardless. If this post offends anyone, I apologize but I know some people here might want one of these for their collection and this might be a good opportunity. For more info, check out the auction listing at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=39295177 and check out the pictures at the link above. I also listed one of those LCD displays for the Apple IIc. It's in great shape. The auction is at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=39285574 The bidding must take place through the auction now that I've listed them. Bidding is free but you must register with the auction. Thanks, Greg

27 years, 6 months

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Ancient machines turning on (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by dogas＠leading.net

Hi. It must be the (near) full moon... the day... or.... *howlllll* *grrr* ;) -----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> >The biggest problem these older machines had was microsoft operating systems. >(okay, I'm a Unix/VMS bigot at heart, but DOS and win3.0/3.1 really WERE that >bad.) I guess that before telling you how full of shit ( in a friendly way, of course ) you are I should ask what your refering to here... >>...but I've never met anyone who really LIKED these operating systems the way the apple-heads liked prodos and gsos. *statement now invalid* Alas, (new) Apple-heads are turned-on by marketing ala translucent/green repackaging. Dont get me wrong. the Woz is a god and Newton OS rocks, IIx was cool... The only thing that makes me seek non-ms oses is the programming ease facilitated by microsoft in app development. Need some challenges somewhere.... but I guess this is true for any programmer and their preferred platform... Mike: dogas(a)leading.net .

27 years, 6 months

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Microvaxen bits etc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Allison... I am supprised - very. The BNC connector is a nice, easy to < fit, reliable, waterproof, connector. The F-connector is a horrible < little thing that (at least in the common version used in the UK) uses < the central wire of the cable as the plug pin. I don't want to trust tha < thing with my data. They are actually very reliable and the cable industry uses them by the ton. What often happens though is like any fine treaded item they can be cross threaded and if the recepticle does not have a good spring connector for the center wire then things fail. Considering I have a house wide master antenna and also a house wide cable distribution there must be at least 50 more F connectors in use and none have ever given me grief. Also I'm used to the older fully soldered BNCs (I still have the better part of a pound coffee can of them) as I use them for all the O'scopes, RF generators, radios (scanners, aircraft) and anything else that demands a good shielded connection. But they are a PITA to assemble. The one I consider the worst is the RCA, no lock, and tends to be loose and noisy over time. Very popular with audio and video. I actually have a bin full of locking rings that go around them to clamp them on. Any test equipment with them installed gets opened and a BNC replacement unless there is good reason not to. < What, no Belling-Lee coaxial plugs (used for TV aerials in the UK, and < thus very common over here) ? Or Pye coax plugs (screw-lock connectors, < not common at all, but I have a reasonable stock of them)? And of course < the SMA/SMB/SMC connectors. I didn't want to go into some of the odd and esoteric like the TNCs. Working with RF over the years I've hit most of them including pipe (waveguides). Some types of cable like various sized hardlines from the rg174 sized to the 2" stuff can use some odd connectors as well. Heck I've been known to fix a sliced 10B5 cable using a pen knife and vinyl electical tape until the Mill coms people could get to it. They were horrified when the found it but, I finshed my printing and the segment was working fine. Cables are part smoke and part majik. The majik is putting the smoke back in when it leaks. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Repair strategy (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< repairshop trick to get more money, really. Companies help out a lot < too. I'm sure schematics for a NSX Penitum-II 933 Turbo motherboard You havent the first understanding of repair costs. Lets assume that the chips and prints are available. there are only a few chips and fairly easy to zero in on the failed one. Problem if it takes an hour to do this (including remove and replaceing the bad chip) thats easily 30-50$. Now that does not include getting the board out, putting it back in assuring nothing else was wrong and running it for a few hours (burnin). When a mother board costs between 49-499$ the simple economics arent there. Also repairs are very hard to do on multilayer boards (requires skilled people) and it's very easy to compromise reliablity. Now if the failure was from lightining or a power supply failure the whole board is likely cooked anyway. This also side steps the problem of keeping special tools to desolder the parts, keeping spares on hand, testing and all. All of these things cost and if you have to keep a stock of parts (that can be come antiquated) so you can turn equipment around fast (would you wait a week for reapirs?) is expensive.

27 years, 6 months

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Mac emulators?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hello everyone! Is there such a thing as a Mac emulator for a PC? I'd like to download some Mac stuff from the internet, but the only computer that has internet access is a PC. Any suggestions (besides buying one of those Mac/PC programs)? ThAnX, -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>< It's too bad most micros don't have a debugger in ROM. Except for >< computers made by Apple, I don't know of any. >Sorry, I meant home personal computers. PDPs, IMSAIs, various >development systems don't count. Satisfied? Most early "home computers" do have the functionality of a debugger in ROM - they just take decimal numbers, not Hex/Octal, and require you to type PEEK and POKE :-). Tim.

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I know about that. A ROM-based debugger would be helpful if I don't have a bootable system. > >On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> It's too bad most micros don't have a debugger in ROM. Except for >> computers made by Apple, I don't know of any. I especially wish the >> PC had a ROM debugger. It would really help me feel like I'm using a >> worthwhile machine. > >Boot DOS (or open a DOS window). Type "debug". Not in ROM but its what >you want. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< It's too bad most micros don't have a debugger in ROM. Except for < computers made by Apple, I don't know of any. I especially wish the < PC had a ROM debugger. It would really help me feel like I'm using a < worthwhile machine. Shows what you don't know. Non exhaustive list of micros with debug roms: PDP-11/03, 11/23, 11/73, 11/83, 11/84 (most all the non front pannel 11s) SC/MP IMSAI IMP-48 Kim-1 SYM-1 AMI EV68 series Motorola 6800D1 and D2 intel SDK-80/85/88 SWTP 6800 ALTAIR-8800b (the front pannel is in a 1702 prom!) Godbout 8080/front pannel replacement (octal keypad!) Netronics Exploror 8085 CCS 2200 series s100 crate Heath H8 Micromint SB180 (z180) Intel MDS-800 Intel MCS-8 (8008) MicroVAX series including VS2000, 3100, 4000 and others. I am very certain I've left a truckload of them off. Also if the PC had rom basic there are instruction in basic that allow access to memory, IO and machine language subroutines. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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ATMs

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Actually, my father asked me, which got me thinking. You know, here in Boston, we had text terminal ATMs until about a year ago, when they were replaced by touch-screen graphical ATMs. I don't like them too much just because of the lurid colors. But anyway, I was just curious if they used a microprocessor, microcontroller, or something else... >> Has anyone here had any experience with ATMs? >> What sort of specs might an ATM have? How does it connect to the >> bank computer? >> Thanks >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > >Uh, thinking of a little midnight "project"? > > >Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >"UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." > --> Scott Draves > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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Repair strategy (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Because while VCRs are not considered modular by the general public, computers are. This means that while you can't tell someone that their VCR's motherboard is fried, you can say that about a computer. A repairshop trick to get more money, really. Companies help out a lot too. I'm sure schematics for a NSX Penitum-II 933 Turbo motherboard are a lot harder to find than those for a JVS VCR. And that's another reason why noone bothers to fix motherboards, because while a VCR has certain standard components, a motherboard can have damn near anything on it. It's also interesting how while a power supply is often the easiest component to diagnose and repair, it is always treated like a module, and I doubt many techs have been curious enough to open a PSU. I read in a book once that opening a PSU will cause damage to a special layer that prevents interference from the PSU to the motherboard. I haven't been able to substantiate this... >Actually, in the UK, it's _very_ uncommon to buy complete PCBs for TVs or >VCRs. Buying individual components is a lot more common. And custom chips >should be available while the device is in production, but good luck >finding them in 10 years time :-(. > >I am not sure why 'repairing' computers is done by module replacement >while TVs/VCRs are fixed to component level. It's no more difficult to >change a chip in a computer than in a VCR (a lot of modern VCRs are full >of surface-mount parts). It's no more difficult to trace the fault >either. > >-tony > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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Week end acquisitions

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Hi all, Pretty good finds at the Minnesota Hamfest yesterday. 2 Gridpads Complete (only one set of manual) Anybody has software for those? The Voice, Odyssey 2 Spech and sound effects module Others that are not 10 years old but I'll brag about them anyway: 75 MHz pentium laptop ($20 working) Epson ActionLaser 1500 ($25 working) set of SCM ethernet cards ($2 each Unknown condition) Tere was a few other Grid computers, laptops of all sorts (zenith, toshiba, ps/2 70 ...), and a lot more but my budget was very limited this time so I pcked up the one I wanted the most. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon/

27 years, 6 months

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A record?

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 1 November 1998 15:20 Subject: A record? > >I'd like to put forward a documented record of hauling a PDP 11/45 and >TU-10 tape drive and separate racks up two flights of stairs into a third >floor apartment between three people. >I'm sure someone will challenge this record and put it to shame, but I was >impressed with the feat. So am I. I'd have to concede that as being an act of considerable fortitude. I thought I did well moving a Vax 8530/6310 cluster, complete with 2 HSC50's, TA78/TU78 and about 15 RA8x and some RA7x drives from a warehouse to my parents house, then getting it up a narrow gap into a vacant granny flat. Over gravel. But we did have a forklift load it on the vehicle for us. I think the PDP effort beats that one. The TA78/TU78 was the hardest, and the heaviest.. It took six of us to move it all. (Called in a few favours, and a mate with a ute, uh, pickup in us-speak) This doesn't include the several large station wagon loads of 1/2" r-r tape and the docs for VAX-VMS 5.5. For those not acquainted with VMS, the manuals are loose leaf A4 Binders, and there are close to 40 of them. It's normally shipped on a pallet, and referred to by users as the "great grey wall" after the colour of the ring binders. (Some earlier versions were other colours, orange I think, but they weren't quite as big either.) Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 6 months

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A record?

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 1 November 1998 17:22 Subject: Re: A record? >On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Computer Room Internet Cafe wrote: >> I thought I did well moving a Vax 8530/6310 cluster, complete with >> 2 HSC50's, TA78/TU78 and about 15 RA8x and some RA7x drives >This is pretty impressive in its own right! Didn't impress me in 40c+ temps. I still have this system. The 6310 (now a 6320) and 1 HSC50 + Star Coupler & the SA550 with it's 8 RA7x (3 72's & 5 70's) are the WWW, FTP and Email site for the school I work at. When it eventually retires, (again!) it's coming here, but that won't be for a few years yet. The 8530 and its CI adapter cabinet, and the TA78/TU78 are used as a room divider at the internet cafe. The 8530 console (DEC Pro380 alias a PDP-11) is sitting on top of it. It lacks only the console cable to make it a goer. The 78's need a couple of new power supplies, but were working til the psu's failed. 1 HSC50 and a cabinet with 3 x RA81's serves as the counter, with a side panel as a desktop. Makes interesting decor for an internet cafe. Mind you it will be a lot more interesting once I get it all working again. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 6 months

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teledisk (was: 8 inch floppies on PC's (was: TRS-80 Model II...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

] Sydex (http://www.sydex.com/) has some very excellent software ] available for dealing with "foreign" floppy formats, and can deal ] with many (but not all) 8" floppy formats. Instead of going into ] ... >If you are referring to teledisk, it is worth noting that they no >longer offer a single-user non-commercial license; they stopped >offerring it as shareware in 1991, and is now solely a commercial >product with a licensing fee of $150. The shareware version that >can still be found out there is now "warez" - illegal, copyable >only by pimply-faced HaKkErZ with bad breath and no morals. :-/ >I exchanged e-mail with them recently about this, and though they >were polite, they refused to consider licensing it for less than >their stated price. As I use Teledisk for commerce, I don't have any problems with the $150 fee. I agree, it is a shame that the shareware version can no longer be registered for a small fee, especially because large quantities of freely distributable software is out there in Teledisk-image format (for example, all the POS-related RX50's for DEC Pro's are archived at Uppsula in teledisk format.) >Anybody know of any reasonable alternatives, for those of us that >are hampered by rules against theft? Sydex does have a product which fills many of the same needs that Teledisk does, and this is CopyQM. It supports 3.5", 5.25", and 8" floppies and even has some features that Teledisk didn't have. I don't have as much experience with it as I do with Teledisk, but CopyQM does have the advantage that single-user licenses are available for only US$25. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 6 months

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ATMs

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Has anyone here had any experience with ATMs? What sort of specs might an ATM have? How does it connect to the bank computer? Thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

5
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Ancient machines turning on (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)exit109.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 1 November 1998 10:42 Subject: Re: Ancient machines turning on (was Re: eBay strikes again...) >That is to say, because any software which ran on them can still be >run on a Pentium, there is little reason for someone to pick one up >just to run some beloved old game, Don't be too sure about that. Try running Chuck Yeagers Air Combat on a Pentium or 686. Or Battle Of Britain. one don't work, one exhibits some very strange effects. Both work very well on 386 or 486 machines. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 6 months

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teledisk (was: 8 inch floppies on PC's (was: TRS-80 Model II...

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: ] To: classiccmp(a)u.WASHINGTON.EDU ] Subject: 8 inch floppies on PC's (was: TRS-80 Model II stuff!) ] Message-ID: <981027110530.222003f4(a)trailing-edge.com> ] ] >... ] > I can serial port the machines togethet but, I have no idea how ] > to read off all the sectors of the 8 inches. ] ] This is a question that has been dealt with very thoroughly in the ] past. ] ] Sydex (http://www.sydex.com/) has some very excellent software ] available for dealing with "foreign" floppy formats, and can deal ] with many (but not all) 8" floppy formats. Instead of going into ] ... If you are referring to teledisk, it is worth noting that they no longer offer a single-user non-commercial license; they stopped offerring it as shareware in 1991, and is now solely a commercial product with a licensing fee of $150. The shareware version that can still be found out there is now "warez" - illegal, copyable only by pimply-faced HaKkErZ with bad breath and no morals. :-/ I exchanged e-mail with them recently about this, and though they were polite, they refused to consider licensing it for less than their stated price. Anybody know of any reasonable alternatives, for those of us that are hampered by rules against theft? I suppose I'll eventually write my own, but my schedule looks pretty well jammed clear into the next millenium. ] Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com ] Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 ] 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 ] Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 6 months

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ATMs.

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, 1 November 1998 12:46 Subject: ATMs. >Okay, curiosity time. What happens to obselete ATMs? Anyone here collect them? I've seen several, minus the electronics, at a hitech scrap dealer. (Same place I find a lot of computers)He sells them to opal dealers in Coober Pedy and Andamooka, plus an increasing number to owners of pistols. (er, handguns in us-speak, I suppose). Weapon ownership is extremely repressed here these days, and there are all sorts of draconian requirements about storage of firearms in general, and you can square that for pistols. (Almost impossible to license for Joe Average) Sometimes he has to pay a locksmith to open them, but he gets $500-600 ea for them. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 6 months

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Ancient machines turning on (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

win3.1 has been pretty stable for me. win95 still seems too fragile in my opinion. everytime i have to reboot without shutting down, i pray it comes back up ok. i also cannot understand how a dos session can totally hang win95... i run OS/2 at work and i've never had a crash. sometimes the machine will hang due to network problems. so far, i've had the machine continously on for two weeks and still going. nothing from microsoft could do that! I've migrated to version 4 now which is better at getting around a hung application. david In a message dated 10/31/98 10:04:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time, maxeskin(a)hotmail.com writes: > I guess experiences vary wildly in terms of stability. I've never > had a problem with DOS or Windows 3.x in terms of stability. Some > crashes, but usually when running junky programs. Win95 I might trust > in terms of not crashing, but the filesystem is so unreliable, I stay > away from it. Linux, I'm running on this Compaq 386sx/20 with 6MB RAM, > and it's never crashed. Slackware. I dunno. I seem to be lucky with > not having things fail. I've plugged in connectors backwards many a > time, and have never fried anything. The SMPSU cut out. But then, how > many people would say DOS is unstable?

27 years, 6 months

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ATMs.

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Okay, curiosity time. What happens to obselete ATMs? Anyone here collect them? -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 6 months

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eBay strikes again...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Most things under ten years old can't be repaired because they have weird custom chips. I guess the corporations did an excellent job convincing people that a machine should die, and be replaced, impossible to repair. 90V batteries? How big are they? How big is the radio? >Yes, _you'd_ fix it. I'd fix it, and I guess other people here would do >the same. But the general public seem to think that anything over 3 years >old can't be repaired.. > >One of the radios I use here from time to time is a 1950's Vidor portable >radio with the FM band. It's valved. I got it second hand and it needed >very little work to get it going again - mostly cleaning contacts and >valveholders. I think all the valves are original as well. I've made a >little mains PSU for it as 90V batteries are difficult to find nowadays. > >And I don't consider a set of that age that still works to be unusual at all. > >-tony > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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Ancient machines turning on (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I guess experiences vary wildly in terms of stability. I've never had a problem with DOS or Windows 3.x in terms of stability. Some crashes, but usually when running junky programs. Win95 I might trust in terms of not crashing, but the filesystem is so unreliable, I stay away from it. Linux, I'm running on this Compaq 386sx/20 with 6MB RAM, and it's never crashed. Slackware. I dunno. I seem to be lucky with not having things fail. I've plugged in connectors backwards many a time, and have never fried anything. The SMPSU cut out. But then, how many people would say DOS is unstable? > >Last reboot of this dos6.22/win3.1 system was three weeks ago when I shut >it down to shuffle the drives and replace a dead fan. It's quite stable. >Then again I tend to trash apps that don't behave! I've also tamed a >few unruly ones with carefull edits or the creation of a proper PIF >file. Considering the number of DOS apps I run under windows Setting >things up right is a necessity. > >To me GPFs are applications that under VMS would likely cause an >exception exit dump. GPFs are a poor error handling mech for programs >trying to do what should or are illegal things. It's easy to blame a >weak OS for crappy applications. Dos has few to no protections and >ragging on it is unfair. > >< compared to the stability (weeks and months without rebooting) of Linux, >< in turn doesn't approach the bulletproof reliability you expect from VMS > >The Slakware 3.0 Linux I have on a 386dx/33 that is a good machine but >with only 8meg of ram Linux is not that stable. Forget getting xwindows >to behave well in 8meg. > >< I freely admit I learned most of my computer science under Vax-VMS so I >< strong bias towards it, but I've also run moderately large scale vaxclus > >I'm biased as well, I run 7 vaxen here, two of which are LAVC members. >I also run RT-11, RSTS-11 and a lot of CP/M systems. > >< and at least the versions we used... 5.5a, if memory serves, were remark >< reliable. To the point where we once had a cluster server loose its dis > >Solid! I run both 5.4-4 and 5.5 and uptimes are limited by power on >times, though in the past I've seen months to years. > >< I'm not a programmer. I'm a sysadmin/netadmin type. Ease of programmin >< secondary to me compared to reliability. A system that crashes frequent >< the bane of my profession's existance, because it means instead of spend >< time on the entire environment and routine maintenance you spend more ti >< firefighting mode. > >That is why VMS, unix and their kin are used on the enterprize scale. >Dos/win was used that way but it was never conceived as a multiuser OS >nor as a networking server platform. Using it that way maybe a hackers >dream but a sysadmin nightmare. > >< We were discussing why people don't get attached to PCs as much, and any >< machine that bombs frequently or in general causes headaches seems to me >< it's not going to be high on people's lists. > >A machine that is poorly understood and marketed by processor speed >hype that shows zippy games. I still don't understand why a kid needs >a 300MHz PII to run simcity other than hype. To me it's simpler, one >486dx or PII is the same as another, ther eis nothing to distinguish >them. Even the PS2 series was at least different on the bus level. > >It's a matter of maturity of the system and all of the software. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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eBay strikes again...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

On this list 'doesn't work' means 'smashed into three thousand pieces' In most places, 'doesn't work' means 'it doesn't do what I want it to' Almost anything that goes wrong with an Osborne (besides physical damage) is fairly trivial to fix for people on this list anyway. > >< "Again, the unit TURNS ON!! Incredible considering >< the age of the thing. " > >Gee, the NS* Horizon that turned 20 years old last march must really be >unusual in that I still use it and it's still reliable! > >Then again I have a battery portable TV I bought in '71 that still works >too. I see little majik in all that. I expect it to work and if it >didn't I'd fix it. > > >What scares me more, is the bozo thinks it turns on and lights and fans >mean it works. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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What is a PX4?

by pjoules＠joules.enterprise-plc.com

I have been told by the software house who supply us at work that there might be some old PX4s and PX8s in their storeroom which no-one wants any more. Does anyone know what these are? I gather that htey may be some sort of intelligent terminal as the chap comcerned said they they used to be used on site and then plugged into a modem to upload the data to their main database. Regards Pete

27 years, 6 months

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Ancient machines turning on (was Re: eBay strikes again...)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

It's not that weird. Everyone knows that 286 and 386 machines are crap ;) In fact, one reason is that noone gets attached to them, and also because Pentia aren't that much different from 386s. So, no nostalgia. And, I think that early PCs were a lot less useful than some other machines of the time (like Commodores and Apples) > >> At 06:49 AM 10/31/98 -0800, Seth wrote: >> >> >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=38897455 >> >> >> >> ...with a broken disk drive and still 6 days to go! >> > >> >Aaah, my favorite quote from the auction posting: >> > >> > "Again, the unit TURNS ON!! Incredible considering >> > the age of the thing. " >> > >> >I guess I should consider my PDP-11/04 a bloody miracle then ;) >> >> And I'm going out to the garage to bow in humble supplication to me PDP-8/i! > >Isn't it something that you try to sell the obscure in your local area to have >people ask what you'd pay them to throw it away for you but newer items sell at >reasonable amounts. Get on something like ePay and the weird and no longer >desirable (by the average person) goes for weord amounts and newer machines >rarely get a look (ie 286 and 386 machines). > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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What is a PX4?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have been told by the software house who supply us at work that there < might be some old PX4s and PX8s in their storeroom which no-one wants an < more. Does anyone know what these are? I assume the are Epson. The PX8 is a portable z80 based CP/M laptop. If memory is correct the PX$ was an earlier predecessor of same. I have a PX8 and it's a nice machine. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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eBay strikes again...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< "Again, the unit TURNS ON!! Incredible considering < the age of the thing. " Gee, the NS* Horizon that turned 20 years old last march must really be unusual in that I still use it and it's still reliable! Then again I have a battery portable TV I bought in '71 that still works too. I see little majik in all that. I expect it to work and if it didn't I'd fix it. What scares me more, is the bozo thinks it turns on and lights and fans mean it works. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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eBay strikes again...

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=37938902 ...with more than a day to go! And... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=38897455 ...with a broken disk drive and still 6 days to go! I would say "sign me up" to officially endorse Haggle, but I was browsing the listings and it seems that everyone starts their auctions at very high prices (at least the antique section, I didn't check anything else)... Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." --> Scott Draves

27 years, 6 months

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eBay strikes again...

by dogas＠leading.net

Thats nothing... how about a TRS-80 Voxbox that just went for $300... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net From: Aaron Christopher Finney <aaron(a)wfi-inc.com> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=37938902 >And... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=38897455 > >...with a broken disk drive and still 6 days to go! <snip> <snip><snip>

27 years, 6 months

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What is this? Commodore Magic Voice

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Any idea what this is? It looked interesting so I grabbed it. I looks like it plugs into the ROM socket. It has a ROM socket and two RCA jacks on it. Joe

27 years, 6 months

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What is this? Strange keyboard

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Thanks for the info. Any idea what the two cables are for? If you find the brochures, I'd like to get a copy. Joe At 06:24 PM 10/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Joe wrote: > >> I was wondering through a trift store the other day and found a odd >> keyboard. It's labeled "CompuNET 2000" and looks like a regular 101 key >> keyboard for a PC but it has two extra cables with miniture phono plugs on >> the ends. One with two contacts and the other with three. It also has two >> phone jacks on the back of the keyboard. There are a couple of extra keys >> on the board. One is marked PHONE and the other is marked LINE. Some of >> the numeric key pad keys are marked REDIAL, MUTE, VOL, OPER, etc. anyone >> know what this is for? > >I think this was a keyboard with a built-in phone. This is pretty recent >(within the last two years). It was good for call centers (i.e. >operations with lots of telephone operators for telemarketing or what >not). I have brochures for it somewhere. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > >

27 years, 6 months

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About VCF 2.0 and system design

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

I keep meaning to post a "reaction to the VCF" message. Since I have to do a lot of compilers homework at the moment, now is the perfect time. :) I enjoyed the VCF and will come next time. (I may bring my Kaypro to show to people, or perhaps just software -- there were other Kaypro demos there. I will probably bring my HP-97 if I still have it. I will definitely bring my electromechanical Marchant desk calculator if it's working then.) I do have to say that it was a little disappointing, because I didn't see some of the machines I wanted to see (or if I did see them, e.g., at the Computer Museum, they weren't running). Those would be old machines that are cool by modern standards, instead of being cool by old standards -- Amiga, Perq, Acorn, Symbolics, Be, NeXT, maybe AT&T 3B, Blit, Sony with NeWS, PDP-10, PDP-11 with GT40, PDP-12, LINC, PDP-1. The speeches were fantastic and I should have gone to more of them. The flea market was useful but not as cool as I had hoped. Also some people were selling worthless stuff or were obviously non-hobbyists who were drafted to sell things. (I don't object to non-hobbyists with knowledge and interest nearly as much as I object to non-hobbyists who have no clues or scruples.) It concerns me greatly that I didn't meet many people my own age (24) and that many people there were in fact much older than I am. Now, as for the "system design" part of the title... I have this ongoing ideal (crusade, project, romantic vision) of designing a fantastic new computer, or at least a *sensible* new computer. We now have computing power to spare for frills as well as function; many design ideas have been tried before and their consequences are known to some degree; disasters have been proved to be dis- asters (often more than once!). It surprises me that I haven't seen much interest in this. BTW, the VCF is quite relevant to this topic because the concept of "look at all these computers at once and compare them" is extremely useful. I can think of two problems, though: - We had a thread about designing your own CPU. We've also had discussions about the lack of schematics and technical info. So it seems that hardware is less accessible to the individual amateur, and it's very difficult for the amateur to break through to the next generation. I don't know if it's true, but it seems that way. - Also, information is disappearing. There's relatively copious documentation about old hardware, but not much about old software (or old software itself). Didn't someone try to put together an archive of software info? I haven't heard much about it. Although hardware is important and my ideal computer is going to have super-kick-butt hardware, the hardware designers seem to be working things out on their own -- it's the software market that needs a poke or two. Let me know what you think. -- Derek

27 years, 6 months

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ATMs.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Okay, curiosity time. What happens to obselete ATMs? >Anyone here collect them? Due to security concerns - after all, you don't want anybody getting their hands on those little printing presses inside that make $20's - all ATM's are destroyed upon decomissioning :-). More seriously, the things are probably melted down for scrap. The ATM's that I've seen being serviced probably weigh as much as a small car. Many recent ATM's have PC-clone hardware in their "smarts". I've seen several different ones in the process of "rebooting" and displaying the OS/2 startup screen. I've seen out-of-commision ATM's show the "General failure reading drive C:" message, as well. Tim "Who is this General Failure, and why is he reading my drive C?" Shoppa

27 years, 6 months

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What is this? Strange keyboard

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I was wondering through a trift store the other day and found a odd keyboard. It's labeled "CompuNET 2000" and looks like a regular 101 key keyboard for a PC but it has two extra cables with miniture phono plugs on the ends. One with two contacts and the other with three. It also has two phone jacks on the back of the keyboard. There are a couple of extra keys on the board. One is marked PHONE and the other is marked LINE. Some of the numeric key pad keys are marked REDIAL, MUTE, VOL, OPER, etc. anyone know what this is for? Joe

27 years, 6 months

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Apple IIe (fwd)

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Someone wants to get rid of their Apple //e. That someone's message is below. Please respond to the original poster: Reply-to: mememe(a)sirius.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:14:24 +0100 From: mememejstrebel <mememe(a)sirius.com> Subject: Apple IIe My parents have our first computer, an Apple IIe sitting in my old bedroom, and I would love to find a new home for it that didn't involve the dump. Can you help me? -Judy Strebel Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web page update: 09/28/98]

27 years, 6 months

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another request

by dhansen＠zebra.net

While I'm asking, does anyone know where I can find some software to use with a HP C1710A optical jukebox? Preferrably for the solaris platform, linux or windows (NT) will be acceptable if there isn't anything else. david

27 years, 6 months

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8 inch floppies on PC's (was: TRS-80 Model II stuff!)

by mann＠pa.dec.com

Since my name has been invoked, I thought I'd jump in here. Please don't think I ever pointed anyone to www.warez.com, an extremely icky site with pictures of genitals and zillions of popup consoles that attack you as soon as you get there. The useful site for low-level disk manipulation programs that I pointed Larry to is www.diskwarez.com. Also, I'm not working on TRS-80 Model II emulation -- I'm just thinking about doing that in the future. I'm hardly an expert on the Model II. At Galactic Software I worked in the same room as one, but I did all my work on the Model I and III. I would be very interested in getting a copy of the technical manual for the Model II or 12, though! -- Tim Mann <mann(a)pa.dec.com>, Compaq Systems Research Center http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/Tim_Mann/

27 years, 6 months

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Lisa stuff update

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 261 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981030/7c7d4779/at…

27 years, 6 months

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Microvaxen bits etc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< So that the connector would actually fit on the handle or bracket of < cards mounted on tight spacing. F connectors are huge. We talking about the same connector? F is the same one used to TV RF. Likely that's why they didn't use it (confuse 'net with video). However both are about the same size (give or take a few thousanths). The F connector uses solid conductor wire. That may have been the reason there too, solid center is less flexible.. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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TI 745 for sale

by franke＠sbs.de

Kenneth Miller <khmiller(a)yahoo.com> has a TI 700 mobile Terminal for sale - maybe some of you remember this nice pice off portable Hardware (Termoprinter TTY with 300 Bd acoustic couppler). Please contact him directly when interested. >> Silent 700 Electronic Data Terminal Model 745. This is a real relic from the early 1980's. Does it work? I don't know, I haven't tried it. It includes a built in 300 baud modem with acoustic coupler and a thermal printer with a partial roll of paper. The unit is self contained but the cover is not shown in the picture. The shipping weight will be 16 pounds. << Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 6 months

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VCF II pix on-line

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

VCF II pix now available on my web pages. The direct URL for those who don't want to wander thru the menus: http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/jcgm-vcfii.html They are not all captioned yet, so anyone who would like to throw in IDs on some of the pix missing captions are welcome. -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 6 months

3
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Help in MD needed

by david.ward＠nist.gov

At 01:27 PM 10/30/98 -0600, you wrote: >Is there a friendly collector in Maryland who'd be willing to help me pick >up and ship about 100 lbs of goodies to California? I'd compensate you >for your trouble, and offer to return the favor next time you hear of some >goodies available in computer-rich Silicon Valley. > >Thanks, >Doug > Doug, What, when, and where in MD is your goodie pile? Is it one item at 100# or several smaller items that total 100#? I'd have to work it in around the family schedule, etc.... Best Regards, David Ward ******************************************************* David E. Ward Jr. National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Building 220 Room B-113 Gaithersburg, Maryland 20899-0001 Tel: (301) 975-3209 Fax: (301) 975-5360 E-mail: david.ward(a)nist.gov *******************************************************

27 years, 6 months

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Microvaxen bits etc.

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>We talking about the same connector? F is the same one used to TV RF. >Likely that's why they didn't use it (confuse 'net with video). However >both are about the same size (give or take a few thousanths). The F >connector uses solid conductor wire. That may have been the reason >there too, solid center is less flexible.. Not to mention all the noise problems when the film on the center conductor is not scraped off when you assemble them. At least with BNC you have a gold plated pin that is either soldered or crimped that is making the actual connection. If it were not for the bad connection problems I have encountered I would gladly use F connectors. Dan

27 years, 6 months

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To Mark Tapley

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

Hi Mark, just in case my e-mail to your address doesn't work again (my e-mail is going to be labelled an X-file pretty soon as nothing I send arrives and not much from the list is making its way to me). Anyway I'm at 55 Brookmount Rd. Toronto, Ontario Canada M4L 3N3. Please send the Rainbow doc's (I'll pass on the stand though). Tell me the amount and I'll get it too you right away. TIA Colan P.S. apologies to others on the list for this off topic letter but I didn't want to lose this opportunity for to Dec Rainbow stuff.

27 years, 6 months

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Microvaxen bits etc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< cables from the plates to the machines. Bore a 3/4" hole in the top plat < the wall in the attic, or in the bottom if from the basement (as mine is < and you can pass even the BNC through. Make sure to put foam sealant aro Been there and done that. < Not sure if F connectors were around back then, or if they were very muc They were but BNC is later than the original eithernet which used expensive and hard to assemble Type N. < use. Also it makes things much harder to disconnect. That's why they I can understand quick disconnect. Also It may have been an artifact of the WANG loop drops that used RG58/59 and BNC. < probably didn't use PL259 and SO238 combos since every had their fill o < threaded connectors from the twinax days. They are just plain too big. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Microvaxen bits etc.

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 28 October 1998 9:55 Subject: Re: Microvaxen bits etc. >> >>While I'm at it, AUI-10Base2(or t) transceivers are also getting rare, > >Odd.. Why on earth should those be rare? Or don't people use AUI ports any more. Short answer is no. They don't. Not around here anyway. Most network cards produced these days don't have AUI ports on them. Unfortunately all my big (and some smaller) Digital boxen only have an AUI on their ethernet adapters. >You _might_ be able to raid the 10 base T interface chip, or the >10 base 2 transceiver chip + isolated PSU + transformers off a PC >ethernet card, make a PCB, and build your own transceiver. A lot of cards >(at least the old cards I hack about with) use standard chips like the >83C92 (10 base 2) or 83C94 (10 base T). The data sheets for the chips >give the application circuits, and most of the bits can probably be >raided off old ethernet cards. If I get desperate enough. I have no shortage of 10Base2 + AUI 16 bit PC cards. I'm really gonna have to find a pinout for the AUI connectors. And how to connect them. I have found a source for new txcvrs in Adelaide (finally) but it's rather more than I had intended to pay, when a s/h one would do. > >If you can find some old 10 base 5 transceivers (thickwire), then by >changing the connector, they'll often work on 10 base 2 networks. It's >not 'official', but it seems to be OK. Probably, but they are pretty rare as well. IIRC, I think the difference is only in the signal level injected into the cable, it's somewhat lower for thick cable due to the lower loss of the RG8. Modern ethernet transceivers are rather more sensitive, so unless you had maxed out the distance to the full 180 meters or thereabouts, it should work just fine. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au (My other home)

27 years, 6 months

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Microvaxen bits etc.

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

Tony Duell wrote: > She'd explode faced with this dining room, then. There's about 15 systems > that I can see without even trying. Along with printers/monitors/etc. The > total number of processors is probably over 1000. How many are you counting for the DAP? Philip.

27 years, 6 months

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Tbar data monitor, looking for...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Just found a TBar Explorer, a serial data monitor model 5915-10 >from all I can see. Its working but I'm looking for schematics and manuals for it. Remarkably it seems to be of 1985 vintage! Allison

27 years, 6 months

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PCjr with no disk drive?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

There may have been an advanced BASIC or something on a cartridge, but I think the ROM BASIC was in the M/B's ROM. -Jason *********************************************** * Jason Willgruber * * (roblwill(a)usaor.net) * * * * http://members.tripod.com/general_1 * * ICQ#-1730318 * * /0\/0\ * * > Long Live the 5170! * * \___/ * ************************************************ ---------- > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: PCjr with no disk drive? > Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 1:15 PM > > At 09:08 AM 10/29/98 -0800, Sam said: > > >The PCjr had BASIC in ROM and didn't require a floppy to boot. > > Was the BASIC in a plug in cartridge and optional? > > Joe > >

27 years, 6 months

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PCjr with no disk drive?

by rector＠usa.net

The PCjr has become a 'project' for me lately. I've been trying to find out all I could. I finally decided to add one to my collection and this past weekend went out and came home with 3 all for $1.50 plus a Commodore Vic-20 to boot. Here's what I've been able to find: The PCjr came in two flavors: the entry (model 4) and enhanced (model 67): Configurations 4860-004 - System unit w. 64kb, 62 key IR keyboard, two cartridge slots 4860-067 - System unit w. 128kb (includes 64kb memory and Display Expansion feature), 62 key IR keyboard, two cartridge slots, 5.25 inch 360kb FDD and adapter more details can be found at: http://www.can.ibm.com/helpware/4860.html There is also a fairly informative site at: http://www.pcenterprises.com/catjr/ -- Dan Rector

27 years, 6 months

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Microvaxen bits etc.

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 05:22 PM 10/29/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: > >For your next aniversary, buy your wife a wireless LAN. I don't miss the >wires a bit. I recently built a new home, and I thought I was being so forward-thinking by wiring it with Cat5 - then I started reading about the low-cost wireless devices coming down the pike. I did install an Aironet bridge back to the office, though, delivering T-1-ish speeds through the 4 1/2 miles of air, and allowing roaming PCMCIA wireless nodes at home at the same time. ObCC: Some of my collection will be connected over this link. :-) - John

27 years, 6 months

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What is this? Strange keyboard

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> I was wondering through a trift store the other day and found a odd >keyboard. It's labeled "CompuNET 2000" and looks like a regular 101 key >keyboard for a PC but it has two extra cables with miniture phono plugs on >the ends. One with two contacts and the other with three. It also has two >phone jacks on the back of the keyboard. There are a couple of extra keys >on the board. One is marked PHONE and the other is marked LINE. Some of >the numeric key pad keys are marked REDIAL, MUTE, VOL, OPER, etc. anyone >know what this is for? It is - surprise! - a keyboard-phone. Those extra cables go to a headset, and the numeric keypad works as a DTMF dialer. Tim.

27 years, 6 months

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World Power Systems scam

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Does anyone recall the month and year the "World Power Systems" scam advertisement appeared in (was it?) Byte? - John

27 years, 6 months

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Kurzweil KVS

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I would say it's probably more than 1%...but, is anyone here familiar with sound waves, and what human speech looks like waveform wise? > >On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> Even the task of parsing the input stream to separate the words from each >> other has remained an elusive goal. That is a loarge part of why the >> current "dictation" systems remain unsuitable for transcription, closed >> captioning, aids for the deaf, etc. Even now, the best systems available >> require intense interaction between the speaker and the program. > >Yup, it's a *very* difficult problem. Basically, there's not a >straight-forward mapping between sound waves and what we hear. Even once >you do all of the relatively simple signal processing and word >recognition, you're left with the basically impossible task of context >analysis (which requires almost all of our brain to get right, and we >still blow it about 1% of the time). > >-- Doug > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 6 months

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