- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Fix for 4.3BSD-Quasijarus bootstrap on CMD SCSI controllers

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- Thought I'd share this fix with you all just in case someone in the future might make use of it. Long story short: Got myself a CMD 710/M UNIBUS SCSI controller with the intent to use it in my VAX-11/750, running 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. Unfortunately it won't boot (it hangs shortly after "loading boot" is printed to the console). VMS boots, NetBSD > 1.6 or so boots, Ultrix boots, but no luck with 4.3BSD. I spent some time adding some debug spew to the bootstrap (on SIMH) and testing (on the 750), and the hang is inside udcmd() in sys/vaxstand/uda.c. I then stumbled on this usenet post: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.sys.pdp11/61LZNTo9Dgg/Q6dI9om_LIEJ Which indicates a similar problem with a Viking controller on a different 4.3BSD variant. The code in Quasijarus is a bit different, but the cause is the same. The fix is: Change line 155 of sys/vaxstand/uda.c from: if(u->uda_ca.ca_rspint ==0) to: if(u->uda_ca.ca_rspdc & MSCP_OWN) Rebuild, and re-run disklabel to replace the bootstrap. Hope that helps someone else someday... - Josh

9 years, 1 month

2
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Transporting an LGP-30

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

On Thu, 12/29/16, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote: > Interesting factoid about the Bendix G-15: it was designed with the help of > one of the ACE people (Harry Huskey), and is basically a re-packaged ACE with > drum instead of delay lines. There's an interesting article by Huskey himself > in "Alan Turing's ACE" (by Jack Copeland) which discusses the G-15. Indeed. Huskey is probably one of the most influential, least known early pioneers. He was one of the engineers on the ENIAC, having designed the card reader and punch interface units. He spent some time at NPL and was one of the prime pushers behind the idea of building a pilot version of the ACE. When he returned to the US, he designed both the SWAC and the G-15. Later he was on the faculty at UC Berkeley where three of his advisees were Niklaus Wirth, Ken Thompson, and Butler Lampson. And he turned 100 early in 2016. BLS

9 years, 1 month

5
7
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was: National Semi... is Apple ][ collectability (if any)

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/3/2017 1:09:50 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jwsmail at jwsss.com writes: On 1/2/2017 11:26 PM, Brad H wrote: > I brought the RFI thing up with him. No response. There is a legit Rev 1 there too asking $3500. I don't find Apple IIs below Rev 0 that interesting anymore, personally. I think even the legit guy would struggle to get much above $1500. The vintagecomputer museum guy on epay is selling mounted and framed motherboards now for $1500 (might not work noted). I guess someone would care about low ref Apple 2's but I'm not sure why there would be any interest. I've got one I bought with the original packing box, which I have picked and moved twice, which is rare for my collecting, but I don't know what makes any Apple 2 like that collectible. As in why are they collectible with low serials / part numbers. is there any documentation as to when they were made with those numbers that would make them significant? The numbers made as Raymond said would make most of us with Apple 2's millionaires I'd think unless they have some other significance. just curious. thanks Jim Jim the vintagecomputer museum guy wants a crazy price for a roll of teletype punch tape... I do not understand some of his prices. Ed#

9 years, 1 month

1
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National Semiconductor IMP mini

by vintagecomputer＠bettercomputing.net

-------- Original message -------- From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> Date: 2017-01-02 7:37 PM (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini On 1/2/17 7:22 PM, jim stephens wrote: > This system looks pretty interesting, though pricey. I'm thinking it > is going to be a development machine as all the switches and display > would not probably have been on a production machine. > > I don't think National made many minicomputer format machines, in > their history, someone correct me.? That might make this pretty rare > on that front as well. > > thanks > Jim > > Beautiful-1974-NATIONAL-SEMICONDUCTOR-COMPUTER-model-imp-16p/ > http://www.ebay.com/itm/252700755919 > Yeah, it's pretty cool but I don't think the seller has reasonable expectations for actually selling it -- the auction started (I believe) at $1500 (which may have been a reasonable price), then the seller raised it to $2500, now it's at $3500 (which is fairly outrageous, in my >opinion).? I'm not sure what his strategy is. >Bitsavers has manuals (of course...) >- Josh I think he figured toggle switches and lights = $$$$. ?He might be correct, given the obscene money I've seen laid out just for a PDP 8/e faceplate. You never know a) what will motivate a collector and b) when just the right collector for a given item will show up. ?Every day I thank my lucky stars they didn't, for whatever reason, show up for my Mark-8 boards.

9 years, 1 month

5
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National Semiconductor IMP mini

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Bitsavers http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/national/imp/4200021C_IMP16C_App_Jan… is same manual.. the 16 P is the machine in ebay. yea a beauty. Ed# In a message dated 1/2/2017 9:28:59 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, COURYHOUSE at aol.com writes: SMECC's book is on 16 c talks about adding front panel and display etc... 16 sw and 16 led book dated jan 74 16c seems to designate the card maybe 16 b is inclusive of PS an add on panel and case.. also have a 8C book too. ED# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org/) Odd I was just going though a crate 3 hours ago... what are the odds In a message dated 1/2/2017 9:15:05 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, couryhouse at aol.com writes: I have manual. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail ____________________________________ On Monday, January 2, 2017 Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote: On 1/2/17 7:58 PM, Brad H wrote: > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> > Date: 2017-01-02 7:37 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini > > > On 1/2/17 7:22 PM, jim stephens wrote: >> This system looks pretty interesting, though pricey. I'm thinking it >> is going to be a development machine as all the switches and display >> would not probably have been on a production machine. >> >> I don't think National made many minicomputer format machines, in >> their history, someone correct me. That might make this pretty rare >> on that front as well. >> >> thanks >> Jim >> >> Beautiful-1974-NATIONAL-SEMICONDUCTOR-COMPUTER-model-imp-16p/ >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252700755919 >> > Yeah, it's pretty cool but I don't think the seller has reasonable > expectations for actually selling it -- the auction started (I believe) > at $1500 (which may have been a reasonable price), then the seller > raised it to $2500, now it's at $3500 (which is fairly outrageous, in my >> opinion). I'm not sure what his strategy is. >> Bitsavers has manuals (of course...) >> - Josh > I think he figured toggle switches and lights = $$$$. He might be correct, given the obscene money I've seen laid out just for a PDP 8/e faceplate. You never know a) what will motivate a collector and b) when just the right collector for a given item will show up. Every day I thank my lucky stars they didn't, for whatever reason, show up for my Mark-8 boards. With the "No shipping cash on pickup" proviso the seller provides, I feel fairly certain no one's biting. But I've been surprised before... - Josh

9 years, 1 month

1
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National Semiconductor IMP mini

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

SMECC's book is on 16 c talks about adding front panel and display etc... 16 sw and 16 led book dated jan 74 16c seems to designate the card maybe 16 b is inclusive of PS an add on panel and case.. also have a 8C book too. ED# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) Odd I was just going though a crate 3 hours ago... what are the odds In a message dated 1/2/2017 9:15:05 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, couryhouse at aol.com writes: I have manual. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail ____________________________________ On Monday, January 2, 2017 Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote: On 1/2/17 7:58 PM, Brad H wrote: > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> > Date: 2017-01-02 7:37 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini > > > On 1/2/17 7:22 PM, jim stephens wrote: >> This system looks pretty interesting, though pricey. I'm thinking it >> is going to be a development machine as all the switches and display >> would not probably have been on a production machine. >> >> I don't think National made many minicomputer format machines, in >> their history, someone correct me. That might make this pretty rare >> on that front as well. >> >> thanks >> Jim >> >> Beautiful-1974-NATIONAL-SEMICONDUCTOR-COMPUTER-model-imp-16p/ >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252700755919 >> > Yeah, it's pretty cool but I don't think the seller has reasonable > expectations for actually selling it -- the auction started (I believe) > at $1500 (which may have been a reasonable price), then the seller > raised it to $2500, now it's at $3500 (which is fairly outrageous, in my >> opinion). I'm not sure what his strategy is. >> Bitsavers has manuals (of course...) >> - Josh > I think he figured toggle switches and lights = $$$$. He might be correct, given the obscene money I've seen laid out just for a PDP 8/e faceplate. You never know a) what will motivate a collector and b) when just the right collector for a given item will show up. Every day I thank my lucky stars they didn't, for whatever reason, show up for my Mark-8 boards. With the "No shipping cash on pickup" proviso the seller provides, I feel fairly certain no one's biting. But I've been surprised before... - Josh

9 years, 1 month

1
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National Semiconductor IMP mini

by jwsmail＠jwsss.com

This system looks pretty interesting, though pricey. I'm thinking it is going to be a development machine as all the switches and display would not probably have been on a production machine. I don't think National made many minicomputer format machines, in their history, someone correct me. That might make this pretty rare on that front as well. thanks Jim Beautiful-1974-NATIONAL-SEMICONDUCTOR-COMPUTER-model-imp-16p/ http://www.ebay.com/itm/252700755919

9 years, 1 month

2
1
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DEC color standards was: Re: Banner Panels

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Pete Lancashire > To convert from Muncell to RGB Interesting. For one colour (D.C. Blue), listed on Charles' page as Munsell 5PB 3/10, that page gives it as 'outside sRGB gamut', whereas the page you list gives it as sRGB [0,72,145]. Noel

9 years, 1 month

5
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DEC VT100/220 line wrapping semantics sought

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Antonio Carlini > My scan is ~400MB (and 1090 pages long!) Even at 1K pages, it shouldn't be anything like that big, if scanned using the most space-efficient encoding. For _manuals_, scan at 300 dpi with Black+White encoding (i.e. 1 bit per pixel), then store as TIFFs with CCITT Group 4 (fax) compression. That does a typical page of text in ~45KB or so. So you're about an order of magnitude high.... (For engineering drawings, basically the same, except scan at 600 dpi, to capture all the small characters such as pinouts.) Noel

9 years, 2 months

2
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Viewdata/Teletext

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Hi folks, Happy new year to all! Is anyone here familiar with the innards of Viewdata? I'm still deep in the bowels of this Executel viewdata phone system and one thing that it should be doing but isn't is puzzling me. The teletext chip is a Plessey MR9735, datasheet here: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/mr9735.pdf It can work in either 'off hours' or 'on hours' meaning effectively 'day' or 'night' mode when there's no broadcast TV signal at night, this is the 80s remember. The surrounding circuitry forces Off Hours by pulling high all the incoming TV signals apart from Line Flyback which is pulled low. The datasheet says: "When the incoming transmission is turned off, (i.e. Goes 'Off-hours'), this is recognised by the [On Hours Detector] after at least 300ms of missing sync. Pulses. An internally generated Composite Sync signal is then switched to the Composite Sync Out pin." Since Sync In is pulled high there are never any negative sync pulses (I've watched this on a logic analyser) so after 300ms Sync Out should become an internally generated pulse, but this doesn't happen and Sync Out remains a steady 5V meaning the TV picture is unsync'd. I know the MR9735 itself is fine as I have a pair of Tandata viewdata terminals which also use this chip in Off Hours mode and I can swap them around. The chip itself is receiving a steady 6MHz clock to pin 21 and the clock divider outputs at pins 20 and 19 are working. Any clues? -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?

9 years, 2 months

2
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DEC color standards was: Re: Banner Panels

by chd＠chdickman.com

Rod, On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Rod Smallwood <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote: > Hi Guys > > I have had a quick word with the girls down at the silk screen > shop. A couple of years ago I tried to translate the DEC color standards to RGB based on the colors in the standards on bitsavers. Here is what I came up with: http://www.chdickman.com/pdp8/DECcolors/ I think I posted this already. How have you been doing your color matching? Have you published a color list for the panels you have made? I am thinking about color matching for switch handles for example that are in the same colors. Some enduring standard translation for the colors would be great to have available in the future. I never imagined how slippery color was until I tried to do the color matching from the DEC standards. I had to meet Munsell, Ostwald and the CHM (Color Harmony Manual, not the Computer History Museum), before I was done. And Pantone seems to be the Microsoft of color. -chuck

9 years, 2 months

5
6
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FPGA 1802 and COSMAC ELF

by spacewar＠gmail.com

I've updated my VHDL 1802 core and COSMAC ELF for a newer FPGA, the Xilinx Artix 7. As usual, the source code in in the github repository: https://github.com/brouhaha/cosmac/ On the XC7A100T-1FGG484, which is the slowest speed grade, it meets timing at 62.5 MHz. Since my 1802 core only needs one clock per machine cycle, versus 8 for the original CDP1802, it runs at the equivalent of a 500 MHz CDP1802. I was actually able to run it at 100 MHz (800 MHz equivalent), but that doesn't meet timing so there's no guarantee that it will work; it is "overclocking" the FPGA. I can't really imagine any reason to need an 800 MHz equivalent CDP1802. :-) It has been tested with a few simple test programs and with CamelForth. The interrupt support and related instructions are still untested. Eric

9 years, 2 months

1
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Year 2017

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

2016 is on the way out. For classic computer users let's hope 2017 allows our 'hobby' to continue to flourish. Happy computing for 2017! Murray :)

9 years, 2 months

5
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Stripping an RA80

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Tony Duell > My first thought is to strip this RA80 (that's why I got it!). This > will provide me with most of the missing parts > ... > Is there any reason to keep the bare, stripped, chassis, or should I > let it go as scrap metal? > ... > Or should I preserve the RA80 as it is, and just use it as patterns for > the missing bits. I don't have any problem at all with the concept of stripping the parts you need off one drive to make the other work. After all, you'd be conserving the number of complete drives: start with one complete, and one missing some bits; end with one complete, and one missing some bits. However, I personally would not dispose of any of the bits, though (except things which can be easily found, and will continue to be so, like standard fasteners); once they are gone, they are gone forever. UNC/UNF parts are easy to source on this side of the pond: I imagine they'd be easy to find on eBay, or if there's something you can't locate, let me know, and I can run over to the store and grab it and mail it off. Noel

9 years, 2 months

2
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WTB: DEC M105 + M7821

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > I'll keep an eye out for the interrupt control module. For your purposes, you could probably get by with an M782 or M7820 (earlier versions of the M7821); I'm pretty sure they are pin-compatible (the earlier ones have circuits that aren't quite as good as the one in the M7821). Noel

9 years, 2 months

1
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WTB: DEC M105 + M7821

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > I'd like to track down a an M105 address selector and an M7821 (or > M7820) interrupt control These are pretty easy to find on eBait. Noel

9 years, 2 months

2
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WTB: DEC M105 + M7821

by fritzm＠fritzm.org

Hi folks: I've been thinking about trying some PDP-11 interfacing/emulation projects in the new year. I'd like to track down a an M105 address selector and an M7821 (or M7820) interrupt control to keep things simple to start with. Anybody have surplus of these they'd be willing to sell/trade? Thanks, and Happy New Year, all! ?FritzM.

9 years, 2 months

1
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TI 990/189 debugging

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- Got myself a TI-990/189 single-board computer based around the TMS9980 microprocessor (actually, a variant of it, the MP9529, which apparently differs only in that it has a lower maximum clock and only requires Vdd of 9.3V or so...) It was advertised as "it looks like it's working, but who knows" and so of course it arrived and it's dead. It powers up and nothing appears on the display, and the CR1-CR4 and SHIFT LEDs are illuminated. No response whatsoever. I've spent some time yesterday and today probing the thing and I think the CPU is dead, but I wanted to run it past the braintrust here in case anyone has any experience with the 9980... Here's what I see: Voltages are all nominal on the +12, +5 and -5 supply; +5 and -5 are present at the CPU, as is 9.3V for the VDD. At the CPU: - CKIN is clocking at the right rate, the phi3 clock generated by the CPU is also correct. - IAQ is not pulsing, so the CPU is not fetching instructions - The Address and Data lines are all zeros with no activity whatsoever - HOLDA is low, -HOLD is high (so the CPU is not being held) - READY is high - MEMEN is low (so no memory accesses are taking place) - INT0 through INT2 is 010 (which indicates that a LOAD interrupt is active, more on this later) I have verified that the POWERGOOD signal is going high after about a second after power-on, as expected (this causes things on the board to RESET appropriately). This in turn causes the -LOAD signal from the Power Up/Reset circuit to go low, which causes INT 1 to go high. (This is later supposed to be reset, once the CPU's IAQ line clocks after the first instruction is executed, but since that's dead, well, nothing happens.) Based on this, I believe the CPU to be faulty. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Given the VDD difference (12V vs 9.3V), I don't think a standard TMS9980 will work; the MP9529 seems to be difficult to source, but it shouldn't be hard to get 12V to the CPU... Thanks, Josh

9 years, 2 months

3
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OS/8 FORTRAN IV

by chd＠chdickman.com

What happens when a PDP8/e executes an IOT to a non-existent device? My PDP8/e is skipping when it executes a printer flag test for a device that is not present. I tried the following FORTRAN IV program with OS/8 F4 on simh and it worked fine. C HELLO WORLD PROGRAM IN FORTRAN IV C WRITE(4,100) 100 FORMAT(" HELLOW WORLD!") END even with hello spelled wrong. When I tried it on real hardware it just hung. It looks like it is stuck in an interrupt loop. F4 uses interrupts for IO and has its own internal handlers. From the looks of it, there is an interrupt and it is not getting acknowledged. When the ISR returns, the interrupt is still there and it just loops. This is a PDP8/e and the INT BUS lamp is ON. I believe this means that the interrupt request line on the bus is true. I trace the program and it enters the ISR and checks a few flags. It finds the line printer char done flag set and then determines that it was spurious and returns, ignoring any other device that might be interrupting. I don't have any printer devices installed, so it is strange that is skips on the printer char done flag. When there is no device, what does the IOT do? I would expect a NOP with maybe AC corruption, but not a skip. In the ISR, the printer is checked before the TTY and I think the interrupt is from the TTY. -chuck

9 years, 2 months

4
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How was the R80 (etc) HDA assembled?

by ard.p850ug1＠gmail.com

How was the R80 HDA put together at the factory? From reading the printsets, (R80, RA80, RA81, RA82 -- they all have similar HDA designs), I believe that the spindle and platters were assembled in the lower half of the 'clamshell' housing, then the upper part put on and bolted down. Then the positioner/heads were fitted via the front aperture and bolted in place. Then the head cables were plugged into the preamp board on the front cover, this put on the front of the HDA and fixed with the clips. All in a clean room of course. Looking at pictures of an HDA without the top cover (search for RA80 HDA on Google), I wonder how they fitted the positioner without damaging the heads. There are 2 heads per arm per side on an R80/RA80. There doesn't seem to be any way to insert a tool to keep them all off the platters. Or was there? Surely they didn't scrape them over the disk surfaces? Anyone know? I am not thinking of stripping mine, I am just curious.... -tony

9 years, 2 months

1
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Transporting an LGP-30

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Cory Heisterkamp > this is likely as close as I'll ever come to having a first generation > machine Dude, as far as I'm concerned, if it uses some sort of circulating memory for main memory (either delay line or drum), it's pretty much first generation (of course, it all depends on how one defines generations). (Unlike the very similar - in size/cost/role - Bendix G-15, it doesn't have the 'next instruction' field in each instruction, to optimize performance, though...) Interesting factoid about the Bendix G-15: it was designed with the help of one of the ACE people (Harry Huskey), and is basically a re-packaged ACE with drum instead of delay lines. There's an interesting article by Huskey himself in "Alan Turing's ACE" (by Jack Copeland) which discusses the G-15. > From: William Degnan > I am being very careful not to call this "the first personal computer" Oh, I think a good case can be made. People often cite the LINC as the first, but the G-15 and LGP-30 were similar in cost and intent, albeit a generation (at least) older. Noel

9 years, 2 months

8
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Banner Panels

by bob＠theadamsons.co.uk

> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:10:05 +0100 > From: Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at Update.UU.SE> > > (re http://www.kcg.ac.jp/museum/computer/images/mini_computers/dec/vax11_780.jpg ) > > Yes, but it is the taller racks. I had only seen the metal header on > the PDP-12 and our 8/I with earlier lower racks. > > /P > My 1972 pdp-8/e has a metal header on an H960 tall cabinet. This was definitely original (I ordered and commissioned the machine back then). (Same one as the 8/I in the photograph - no model designation).

9 years, 2 months

2
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DEC color standards was: Re: Banner Panels

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/30/2016 10:49:07 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, chd at chdickman.com writes: On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 12:21 AM, <COURYHOUSE at aol.com> wrote: > I wonder if there is a PANTONE color chat assignment that DEC > ever listed? That would allow you to nail it dead on. Of course it would, but the DEC STD 092 available is not specified in PANTONE, If a later version of the standard used PANTONE then it would be done because PANTONE is the defacto reference today. When did PANTONE become a standard? I saw the following... but that may have been a date for ink maybe not paint? Pantone, as it is today, was founded in 1962, when the company?at the time a small business which manufactured colour cards for cosmetics companies? was bought by Lawrence Herbert, who had been an employee since 1956. He immediately changed its direction, developing the first colour matching system in 1963. Herbert remains the CEO, Chairman, and President of the company. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)

9 years, 2 months

1
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DEC color standards was: Re: Banner Panels

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/30/2016 9:31:07 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, chd at chdickman.com writes: On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 11:14 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote: > You can add the industrial/11 blue and red to your color page That's another problem I think, there isn't any documentation to say what colors a particular scheme used. I think the PDP8/e is amber and terra cotta, but that isn't documented as far as I know. Your Industrial-11 was probably in Bicentennial colors. It sure looks like American Red, White and Blue to me. -chuck I wonder if there is a PANTONE color chat assignment that DEC ever listed? That would allow you to nail it dead on. Ed# _www.SMECC.org_ (http://www.SMECC.org)

9 years, 2 months

2
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DEC color standards was: Re: Banner Panels

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

(with correction) I wonder if there is a PANTONE color chart assignment that DEC ever listed? That would allow you to nail it dead on. Ed# _www.SMECC.org_ (_http://www.SMECC.org_ (http://www.smecc.org/) ) In a message dated 12/30/2016 10:21:32 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, COURYHOUSE at aol.com writes: In a message dated 12/30/2016 9:31:07 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, chd at chdickman.com writes: On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 11:14 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote: > You can add the industrial/11 blue and red to your color page That's another problem I think, there isn't any documentation to say what colors a particular scheme used. I think the PDP8/e is amber and terra cotta, but that isn't documented as far as I know. Your Industrial-11 was probably in Bicentennial colors. It sure looks like American Red, White and Blue to me. -chuck I wonder if there is a PANTONE color chat assignment that DEC ever listed? That would allow you to nail it dead on. Ed# _www.SMECC.org_ (http://www.smecc.org/)

9 years, 2 months

1
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Z-80 code question about a loop that depends on the contents of the refresh register

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

Hi, All, I'm disassembling a vintage program and ran across this bit of code that is causing emulators to hang... MYSUB: LD A,R JP M, MYSUB JR Z, MYSUB CP 0x65 RET M LD A, 0x32 RET I know plenty of 8-bit assembler (mostly 6502, 1802, and a couple others), but I'm by no means expert on the Z-80. It appears that this subroutine is spinning on the value of the refresh register if it's zero or negative, then if it's below 0x65, return the former contents of the refresh register and if not, return 0x32? If it helps, this is from a CP/M game. I'm wondering if this is some sort of randomizer or delay routine. So far, this loop hangs on all three emulators I've tried - simh's altairz80, simcpm010 for AmigaDOS, and EMUZ80 for Raspberry Pi. I'm guessing none of these environments emulate specific behavior of the Refresh register? Does anyone have any comments or insights about what this is really doing and what the right thing to do for emulators is? I can patch this if that's what's needed, but I'd like to understand it first. Thanks, -ethan

9 years, 2 months

5
11
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Transporting an LGP-30

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jon Elson > That means it runs one instruction per revolution of the drum? I don't think it's quite that bad; ISTR something in the manual (BitSavers has a good selection of them, it was in the Programming Manual, which is quite interesting to look at) about how 'logical' sequential words were actually interleaved by some factor into physical locations around the drum (probably to prevent just this problem). IIRC, the manual talks about how it's intended as a replacement for a mechanical calculator (one of the hairy semi-programmable ones, I presume), so their performance target wasn't that steep. Noel

9 years, 2 months

1
0
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Transporting an LGP-30

by coryheisterkamp＠gmail.com

Hi Folks, I recently became the owner of an LGP-30, supposedly in 'working' condition. However, the machine is roughly 2000 miles from me and will need to be transported by freight. Before it's palletized, are there any special precautions I should take to ensure its safe travel. I'm especially worried about the drum (drum lock?), but haven't been able to find a maintenance or setup doc. Anyone out there with experience or can offer a few pointers? Thanks, Cory Heisterkamp

9 years, 2 months

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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> their KA10 had a paging box, made by System[s] Concepts Speaking of which, here's a photo of the display panel from it: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConKAPanel.jpg The meter didn't show up well in that, and it's too cool to miss, so here: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConMeter.jpg is a shot of it. Noel

9 years, 2 months

5
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WTB: Apple II Workstation Card

by shatle＠nfldinet.com

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: WTB: Apple II Workstation Card From: "Mark J. Blair" Date: Mon, December 19, 2016 1:31 pm To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> After playing with my Apple IIe all weekend, my new obsession du jour is to network it with my vintage Macintoshes. So, does anybody have an Apple II Workstation Card available for sale or trade? Act now, before I get distracted by another shiny object! :) -- If by chance, more than one pops up, I'd be interested as well. I'm aware of the Uthernet card, etc. but I'm looking for the "original" Apple card that provided Localtalk networking to the IIe. TIA, Steve

9 years, 2 months

5
8
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an edible apple

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Well done! Perhaps glass case it to keep it around? How many hours into the project? I am impressed! Ed# In a message dated 12/27/2016 6:41:32 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, hilpert at cs.ubc.ca writes: https://imgur.com/a/JNp7m

9 years, 2 months

3
2
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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> AI memo 238: ITS Status Report, April 1972: >> Actually the Project MAC Dynamic Modelling Group uses a non-paged >> early offshoot of ITS on their PDP-10. > So it seems DM kept using the non-paged version of ITS, probably like > what their PDP-6 did. No, their KA10 had a paging box, made by System Concepts - probably programmatically similar to the ones on the other two KA's (looking at the ITS source would probably verify that). Note that in addition to the paging box, there were moderately extensive mods to the KA10 itself (on all three machines) to add a variety of instructions (to do things like, IIRC, flush the paging entry cache). Did the original KA10 have XCT too? And then there were things like the MAR. Now, how soon after their KA10 arrived it had the paging box, etc, added I have no idea - it sounds like they ran it without paging for a while. Noel

9 years, 2 months

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Transporting an LGP-30

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Indeed the opportunity of a lifetime! Safe travels! Cory! Ed# In a message dated 12/28/2016 9:38:25 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, coryheisterkamp at gmail.com writes: On Dec 26, 2016, at 8:49 AM, william degnan wrote: > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Christian Corti < > cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote: > >> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016, Cory Heisterkamp wrote: >> >>> I recently became the owner of an LGP-30, supposedly in 'working' >>> condition. However, the machine is roughly 2000 miles from me and will need >>> to be transported by freight. Before it's palletized, are there any special >>> precautions I should take to ensure its safe travel. I'm especially worried >>> about the drum (drum lock?), but haven't been able to find a maintenance or >>> setup doc. >>> >>> Anyone out there with experience or can offer a few pointers? >>> >> >> - Remove all tube modules and pack them in boxes (with good padding) >> - Remove the drum and stuff/pack it separately (remove the belt going to >> the small motor below the drum and unscrew the drum assembly from the frame) >> - Remove all side panels and the cover; there's nothing more annoying than >> dented panels caused by fixating the frame to the panel and/or truck. >> >> Do you get software and manuals with your machine? >> >> Christian >> >> PS: Just found the auction... you paid *WHAT*??? Wow... for a machine in a >> quite battered shape. What idiot put the heavy Flexowriter on the fragile >> top?? Where's the cable connecting the Flexowriter to the computer? Oh, and >> it works without a power cable... Sorry, I had to make those comments ;-) >> Good luck and enjoy playing with your new computer :-) >> > > > aw come on :-) This is a one of a kind thing. There is a value in knowing > you have a project that will keep you busy, assuming you enjoy this kind of > thing, for a long time. On the other end will be a lot of new knowledge. > > I have manuals for this machine, they're out there. I have a neat training > manual that was used by LGP to train new users. They really looked at this > thing to be a personal computer. This was some may claim by some > definition the *first* personal computer. > > Bill Guys, thanks for all the feedback. A challenge? Absolutely. But this is likely as close as I'll ever come to having a first generation machine, something unfathomable to me as a kid. Apologies for the radio-silence, we've put 1200+ miles under our belts since Monday morning. Today we cross into Alberta. Will keep you all posted on how it goes. Thanks, Cory=

9 years, 2 months

1
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DEC banner panel

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Tony Duell > Does anyonre know what the thickess is? 0.7 mm. (That includes the paint layer.) > I also don't know how they are fixed to the plastic header panel .. > Maybe some kind of double-sided tape? One of mine (ca. 1970) has a sheet of double-sided tape which covers the entire thing. (The glue on it appears to have hardened/failed, and the whole works feel out of the plastic panel.) Noel

9 years, 2 months

2
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DEC banner panel

by ard.p850ug1＠gmail.com

I am starting to fill a spare H960 with my PDP8/e system. Starting as in cleaning up the rack, sorting out the power controller, etc.... This is a somewhat odd question for me as I don't normally care about such things, but I might as well try to get it right... Anyway, I have one of those plastic banner panels for the top front of the rack. It's missing the insert (just the black plastic part), but I would guess (based on what I know of the history of the rack) it would have been the magenta one for PDP11s. Was there a yellow/brown one for PDP8 systems? If so, is a scan available anywhere? Is there any way I can get it printed (and onto what) in the UK? I don't have a large enough printer to do this. Has anyone made said panels before? How did you do it? -tony

9 years, 2 months

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an edible apple

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

https://imgur.com/a/JNp7m

9 years, 2 months

3
2
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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Lars Brinkhoff <l > (What is it with Swedes and ITS?!?) They're definitely seriously crazy. I myself attribute it to the weather. :-) You probably already know this, but I doubt everyone does, but shortly after MIT-MC (the KL ITS) was shut down, a bunch of (crazy - redundant, I know :-) Swedes showed up at MIT with a shipping container (perhaps under the mistaken impression that Cambridge was Lindisfarne ;-), and loaded the KL into it, along with, IIRC, one of the KA ITS machines - possibly AI? They then shipped the whole thing back to Sweden. ISTR that they actually got the KL to work, but I don't know what the current status of the whole works is. (Me, if I'd taken a KA, I would have taken a second one for spares! The parts in that thing are _seriously_ obscure. :-) Noel

9 years, 2 months

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Rack Headers, banners or whatever you call them.

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys Based on the 8/m rack header scan that came in overnight I have done a quick Inkscape artwork. Its not production quality, sized or color matched but ok for a prototype. Printed on aluminium or decal and roll out the air should be possible. Rod

9 years, 2 months

1
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Refurb Panasonic and Okidata dot matrix

by sales＠elecplus.com

1 OKIDATA ML320 5 OKIDATA ML321 1 OKIDATA ML320 TURBO 1 OKIDATA 390 TURBO 1 PANASONIC KX-PP1123 I know that some people were looking for dot matrix printers. This fellow has refurbished units in stock that he is looking to clear out. Not affiliated with the seller, and I have not dealt with him before. Nick Ratansi CAO, Inc tel 718 939 7976 dir 718 886 2025 Nick at compuaddons.com Cindy Croxton

9 years, 2 months

1
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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Adrian Graham > I was born 10 years too late to see it all as it grew. ... these early > years are fascinating to me. Well, you _can_ still experience ITS! It runs under a number of PDP-10 simulators (and there used to be an 'open-access' ITS system on the 'net at its.svensson.org, but alas it doesn't seem to be up any more - although in a fit of fore-sightedness, I downloaded the source to the HTTP server he wrote while it was still up). But you can still download one of the emulators that supports the special ITS instructions on the PDP-10, KLH's KLH10, and SIMH; instructions, files, etc here for KLH10: http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/ and SIMH: https://www.cosmic.com/u/mirian/its/ which give step-by-stop on how to get ITS running. Noel

9 years, 2 months

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DEC banner panel check your filter for the hi res images from scanner

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

may times my aol ends in the bucket. if someone can pass this to Rod and Tony thanks Ed#

9 years, 2 months

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DEC banner panel

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

or print it on thick photo paper on a really large printer and glue it in the plastic header for the rack. - Ed# In a message dated 12/26/2016 11:10:12 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com writes: On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 10:48 PM, Rod Smallwood <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote: >> That's going to be 'fun'.. I can see myself making rollers and a frame to >> hold them. And then tryng to get a bit of sheet aluminium, cut it, round >> the corners etc. >> >> -tony > > I'm a bit better resourced. I already have access to whats needed. Price > could be interesting. Price is one reason for doing it myself. I can see this banner ending up as the most expensive part of the system (so far that 'honour' goes to an RX8e board I bought from a reseller about 20 years ago). Another reason is that having rebuilt just about everything else myself, I am not going to be beaten by a decorative panel... -tony

9 years, 2 months

1
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DEC banner panel

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

I just sent Rod and Tony 8M metal sign Hi Res check your bad mail folder my AOL ends up there often Rod cam change my 8m scan to say 8E or 8 whatever! so funny... I found this behind a console radio today - I had not seen it in over 20 years It used to be on one of my H-960s that had PDP-8 in it.. fortune it would tun up on a day with some one in need. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 12/26/2016 10:56:04 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, paisley at erols.com writes: > Thanks for the offer. But as yet I don't have a picture. I don't even > know that the banner existed. > All I've seen (and got) are the PDP11 ones. I _assume_ there was one > for PDP8 systems, but > assumptions can be dangerous. Hi Tony. Are you talking about the banner for the main system? Or the second rack? The PDP/8e one looks like this: http://www.employees.org/~kirk/images/pdp8e.jpg A few years ago I had an insert printed out at a local Fast Signs store. I scanned an original that was beat up and created some artwork for the PDP-8e, PDP-11, and a DECSystem10 one (The first 2 were made from actual H960 rack banners. The last one was a whimsical one I created for fun.) I am not at home right now, but I can look to see if I can dig up the art work. I don't have one online of my PDP-8e one, but here are the other ones: http://www.willys-overland.com/rack/100_3452.jpg http://www.willys-overland.com/rack/100_3456.jpg Todd Paisley

9 years, 2 months

1
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DEC banner panel

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Re- the PDP-8 one I just scanned.. On the plastic thing on H-960 these metal logo plates stick right into the front into the recess with gummy stuff on the back of the metal. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 12/26/2016 10:56:12 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, ajp166 at verizon.net writes: On 12/26/2016 04:14 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote: >>> On Dec 26, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> ... >>> I hadn't realised that they were printed on aluminium. Ouch!. I also >>> don't know how they are fixed to the plastic header panel, my plastic >>> panel is 'empty' and I don't see any adhesive residue. Maybe some >>> kind of double-sided tape? >> No, the aluminum is adhesive-backed (with a rather potent adhesive). >> It's similar to what you see in serial number plates on machinery. I >> have somewhere a PDP-11 banner plate by itself, with the wax paper >> backing covering the adhesive still in place. If your plastic bracket is >> clean looking, it may never have had the panel stuck to it in the first >> place. > Odd...The chap who gave me the rack removed the panel (and the fan, > and the stabiliser feet) for transport and gave me a box with them in. He > commented that as I was putting a PDP8e in it, I'd probably not want the > banner that was there (I am pretty sure that the original contents of this > H960 was some kind of PDP11 system). > > Anyway, spend the day cleaning dust off parts, stripping the fan and power > controller, etc. I did not notice any adhesive residue on the plastic header > panel. And I think I would have done. > > So perhaps the header was blank, or the banner just pushed in (perhaps > somebody forgot to remove the backing paper...). > > -tony > Sounds like the banner plate for my 11T (Qbus 11 in a 50inch rack) the banner holder was such that it could slid in from the end if you took off the plastic end stop. It has the PDP-11 in in the older reds scheme on thin maybe .040" aluminium. Allison

9 years, 2 months

1
0
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DEC banner panel

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

ok Tony and Rod let me know if pic gets though in other message later I can try to scan in 11x 14 scanner? when you get the art cleaned up SMECC museum would like hi res copy too! i have a few minutes till next post atomic holocaust movie comes on let me go try the scanner In a message dated 12/26/2016 8:57:12 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com writes: On 27/12/2016 01:17, COURYHOUSE at aol.com wrote: > Tony yes we have one with markings stating and for a 8M that fits in > the plastic thingis at the top of H-960 > It is in the usual orange pdp-8'ish colors. Odd! Just found it today in > my house behid a old radio console. Do you need a pic? > > Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC > > > In a message dated 12/26/2016 1:09:32 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com writes: > > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 8:07 PM, Rod Smallwood > <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote: > >> If you have a picture I'll see what I can do > Thanks for the offer. But as yet I don't have a picture. I don't even > know that the banner existed. > All I've seen (and got) are the PDP11 ones. I _assume_ there was one > for PDP8 systems, but > assumptions can be dangerous. > > -tony > Hi Would it be possible for me to have a picture as well? I can then do some artwork. If possible a scan (two parts is ok) else a photo with camera at right angles pointing at the center of the panel. Also a note of the panel size (H x W) Thanks Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

9 years, 2 months

1
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DEC banner panel

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Tony yes we have one with markings stating and for a 8M that fits in the plastic thingis at the top of H-960 It is in the usual orange pdp-8'ish colors. Odd! Just found it today in my house behid a old radio console. Do you need a pic? Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC In a message dated 12/26/2016 1:09:32 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com writes: On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 8:07 PM, Rod Smallwood <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote: > > If you have a picture I'll see what I can do Thanks for the offer. But as yet I don't have a picture. I don't even know that the banner existed. All I've seen (and got) are the PDP11 ones. I _assume_ there was one for PDP8 systems, but assumptions can be dangerous. -tony

9 years, 2 months

2
1
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Nova system in Houston

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55474-Found-an-Entrex-setup-I-hav… I hope to God someone can save the whole system. People who gut systems for the core memory boards REALLY piss me off.

9 years, 2 months

1
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The Dick Smith System 80, as sold to New Zealanders

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/26/2016 3:14:49 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, terry at webweavers.co.nz writes: Over this Xmas break I've grabbed some time to add a few bits and pieces to my Dick Smith System 80 website. Some on the list might find this stuff interesting, hence the post. For those who might not know, Dick Smith was a colourful Australian entrepreneur (and helicopter pilot), who pioneered a chain of electronic shops. These shops were like the Radio Shack of Australia. The first of these shops opened in New Zealand in 1981 (or 1982?). Here are selected pages from the first Dick Smith catalog advertising the System 80 and accessories to us New Zealanders. The prices are eyewatering. Sales tax on overseas goods was very high. I think one NZ dollar was worth about 50 US cents at that time, maybe even lower. Nevertheless I bought a System 80 as advertised! My wife nearly killed me, as we were saving up to buy a house (opps!). Anyway, the PDF is here: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80/promotion-selected-pages-1st-d ick-smith-nz-catalogue.pdf If you want to see everything I've added, check out the top three entries in this list: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80/whats_new.htm Tez Tez - The thing that catches my eye is the S-100 expander so you can use s-100 i/o devices! Ed#

9 years, 2 months

1
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The Dick Smith System 80, as sold to New Zealanders

by terry＠webweavers.co.nz

Over this Xmas break I've grabbed some time to add a few bits and pieces to my Dick Smith System 80 website. Some on the list might find this stuff interesting, hence the post. For those who might not know, Dick Smith was a colourful Australian entrepreneur (and helicopter pilot), who pioneered a chain of electronic shops. These shops were like the Radio Shack of Australia. The first of these shops opened in New Zealand in 1981 (or 1982?). Here are selected pages from the first Dick Smith catalog advertising the System 80 and accessories to us New Zealanders. The prices are eyewatering. Sales tax on overseas goods was very high. I think one NZ dollar was worth about 50 US cents at that time, maybe even lower. Nevertheless I bought a System 80 as advertised! My wife nearly killed me, as we were saving up to buy a house (opps!). Anyway, the PDF is here: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80/promotion-selected-pages-1st-… If you want to see everything I've added, check out the top three entries in this list: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80/whats_new.htm Tez

9 years, 2 months

3
2
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The CHALLENGER 1P Technical Report

by terry＠webweavers.co.nz

Hi, Please forgive me if this OSI document is already on the web somewhere. I looked but couldn't find it. I have a copy so I scanned it. It can be downloaded at: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2016-12-25-OSI-CP1-technical-repor… Feel free to link to it, or place it in other OSI repositories. Merry Xmas Tez

9 years, 2 months

3
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OT: Please help - Neighbors home burned this Christmas eve

by drlegendre＠gmail.com

Please forgive this, list-members, I know it's way OT: https://www.gofundme.com/jeff-kris-kidder-xmas-eve-fire My super great neighbors across the street lost their home to fire this evening. =( These folks are the best of the best.. as the saying goes "Couldn't have happened a nicer guy!". Please spread it around as you feel is appropriate. Like most of us, we're still kind of in shock over it. I can only imagine how Jeff & Kris are.. thanks for your forbearance.

9 years, 2 months

1
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Other SMS300/8X300/8X305 uses?

by spacewar＠gmail.com

Now that I have an 8X300 (etc.) disassembler, which I've used to disassemble the Western Digital WD1000 and WD1001 firmware, and the Zendex ZX-203 firmware, I've become curious as to what other products used the SMS300/8X300/8X305. Does anyone know of any? In the early to mid-1980s, the 8X300 was a good choice for hard disk controllers, because all instructions took 250ns, and a single instruction could read an I/O port or RAM location, shift and mask, and write another I/O port or RAM location. At the time, no MOS microprocessor was even close to that.

9 years, 2 months

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ICL7611 op-amp (was: Motorola MC14081B)

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Hi folks, Thanks for all the help so far, I've moved on quite a way but I still haven't managed to get my head around op-amps other than the basics. If I may trouble your experienced heads with a small circuit diagram: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/STCExecutelStartupCircuit.jpg This is the full circuit of all the things I've been posting recently, traced and drawn out as completely as I can manage. All the resistors and diodes have been tested out of circuit and are OK and I've just realised 3 of the resistors are labelled wrongly. R409 is 47k, R415 and R391 are 100k. IN- at the op-amp is 1.2V from the LM385ZB-1.2 which has pins 2/3 tied together. IN+ is 1.3V. V+ is 5.3V. The purple trace is RESET for the 8085, or should be. Initially the LM385Z had rotted away because of battery leakage so I was experimenting with diodes in series to try and get the IN- voltage down to 1.2V, and with two IN4148s (0.9V) the whole circuit sprang into life and I got RESET at the 8085. For two seconds, then it would cycle for two seconds. This maybe expected behaviour, I don't know. 3 diodes gave me 1.3V which produced nothing at the op-amp output, probably because there was no difference between IN+ and IN-? On a whim I managed to solder new legs onto the old LM385Z and it works, giving 1.2V at IN-, but the output is still only 0.2V. I don't mind admitting I'm stumped :) -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?

9 years, 2 months

4
7
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Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

by barythrin＠gmail.com

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:54 PM, js at cimmeri.com <js at cimmeri.com> wrote: > > > On 12/17/2016 1:23 PM, Stephen Pereira wrote: > >> I was (finally) lucky enough to acquire an Altair 680 back in November... >> > > Is there any logic to the naming of these Altairs? Wonder why it wasn't > "Altair 8080" and "Altair 6800". 8800 and 680 don't follow the same > pattern. > > ------ > > Had MITS made other Altairs... > > Altair 8800 = 8080 > 8850 = 8085 > 8860 = 8086 > 8880 = 8088 > 8286 = 80286 > 8386 = 80386 > 680 = 6800 > 680 = 6809 > 680 = 68000 > > ;-), > > - JS > ---------------------------- > lol, I would love to hear that too if anyone knows any stories behind the naming. Used to hurt my head to remember that it was an 8800 not an 8080. I know the fairly well published story about the name Altair but companies and their model numbers are always odd.

9 years, 2 months

17
38
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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Lars Brinkhoff > I have this on AI: >> the semi-original AI (that is, the KA-10 rather than the PDP-6) was >> .. was given to a bunch of hackers from Concourse Oh, right, now that you mention it, I very vaguely recall this. I'm not sure why I thought they had taken a KA too - I think I may have been confused by this email: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 88 00:16:04 EDT From: Peter Lothberg <ROLL at AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Subject: The "crack team", is dissasembling MX, for it's trip to Sweden To: INFO-ITS at AI.AI.MIT.EDU The crack team has begun to work; ... (As the system will not fill the container more than 40% or so, we vold like donations of other stuff, like Lisp-machines, AAA terminals, a IMP, Conection machines, retired 2060's etc, (I'm not joking...)) which does talk about taking other stuff. But I have this persistent memory that they took a KA - maybe I should try and get ahold of Peter and see? There is a later email: Date: 11-Nov-88 0:39:51 +0100 From: Peter_Lothberg <ROLL%SESTAK.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> To: bug-its at ai.ai.mit.edu Subject: The container and MX Arrived to Stockholm and we unpacked the container on wendsday. The container has, sure shaked, the cardboard paper that we put between the cabinets, has bloue spots..... But, everything was in the same position that we left it, so, hopfully it is not hurt by the transport, or the cold here. We have put the machine on several places, while we are waiting for our new machine room to be completed. which makes it sound like they only got the KL? It's also possibly I am mixing two memories, and remembering this: Date: Sat, 3 Oct 87 23:02:14 EDT From: Alan Bawden <ALAN at AI.AI.MIT.EDU> Subject: The operating system that wouldn't die! AAAAIIIIEEEEEE!!!!! To: INFO-ITS at AI.AI.MIT.EDU I thought I would take this opportunity to spread the word about something that I don't think has been very widely publicized. Some of you may recall that a while ago some fellows in Sweden contacted us about running ITS on various PDP-10's that they owned? Well, we mailed them a set of tapes for bringing up ITS on their 2020, which they were able to do without too much trouble .. That all happened over a year ago. Recently we learned that these guys have successfully -built- ITS paging hardware for their KA-10, and have ITS up and running there as well! Totally Amazing. Pretty astonishing accomplishment, that. Noel

9 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Transporting an LGP-30

by vintagecomputer＠bettercomputing.net

-------- Original message -------- From: william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> Date: 2016-12-24 3:35 AM (GMT-08:00) To: cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Transporting an LGP-30 > Well, I think you guys have convinced me that a trip is in order. Better safe than sorry with a piece of equipment like this. > > Yep Chuck, this is the CA machine. I was surprised it never reared its head on classiccmp the past few days. -C Believe me, I for one was interested, and I was in contact with the seller.?? The expense and effort, as much as >I'd love to work on restoring >this, was too great to pull the trigger. I thought about it also. ?I would have liked to have brought it back to BC and kept it here in Canada. ?But I began to wonder how it had ended up with these guys and talking to them I had my doubts about the amount of care taken in moving it around. ?And I assumed freight would be insane anyway. ?

9 years, 2 months

1
0
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Clone of 98228A ROM for 9825T information posted.

by phb.hfx＠gmail.com

I have posted a package of information and ROM images from my project to clone the 98228A ROM on the VintHPcom group at groups.io. Progress on laying out a PCB is going slowly as I have little experience and the learning curve for using Kicad to lay out a board seems pretty steep. Paul. Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom at groups.io group. *File:* 98228A.zip *Uploaded By:* Paul Berger *Description:* Package with information and ROM images from my project to clone the rare 98228A ROM that supports both 9885 and 9895 8" diskette drives. You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP9825/98228A.zip Cheers, The Groups.io Team _._,_._,_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------

9 years, 2 months

1
0
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Holiday wishes

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

?All I want for Christmas is? a PC diagram for my Coleco ADAM; with apologies to Don Gardner(1946). Wishing all the best of the holiday season and may 2017 bring all your computing classic dreams come true. Happy computing, Murray :)

9 years, 2 months

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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Johnny Eriksson > From the KI10 and onwards it includes PXCT, since these have the > concept of a previous context... > Given a pager for the KA10 PXCT would make sense there. It turns out the KA ITS machines have an instruction that does roughly the same thing, but it's different. Here's the relevant code fragment from SYSTEM;ITS >: IFN KA10P,[ SUBTTL STUFF PECULIAR TO KA-10 PROCESSOR ;;;PAGING BOX INSTRUCTIONS LPM=102000,, ;LOAD PG MEM STATE VECTOR DONT CLR ASSOC MEM LPMR= LPM 2, ;CLEAR ASSOC MEM AND LOAD SPM= LPM 1, ;STORE PG MEM STATE VECTOR LPMRI=LPM 6, ;LOAD PM, CLEAR ASSOC REG, AND CAUSE INTERRUPT EXPGNG==4 .SEE UPQUAN ;4 TO TURN ON EXEC PAGING XCTR=103000,, ;EXECUTE INSTRUCTION WITH MAPPING CONTROLLED BY AC FIELD ;VIOLATION CAUSES USER MEM PROTECT INTERRUPT UNLESS INHIBITED ;VIOLATION ALSO SKIPS BUT THIS IS OF NO CONSEQUENCE UNLESS ;INTERRUPT IS INHIBITED SINCE PC WILL BE RESET FROM OPC XCTRI= XCTR 4, ;XCTR WITH PAGE FAULT INHIBITED (SKIPS ON FAULT) ; AC FIELD VALUES FOR XCTR AND XCTRI XR==1 ;MAP READ MAIN OPERAND OF SIMPLE INSTRUCTION (MOVE, SKIPL, HLL) XW==2 ;MAP WRITE MAIN OPERAND OF SIMPLE INSTRUCTION (MOVEM) XRW==3 ;MAP READ/WRITE OPERAND OF SIMPLE INSTRUCTION (E.G. IORM) XBYTE==3 ;MAP BYTE DATA AND BYTE POINTER (ILDB, IDPB) XBR==1 ;MAP BLT READ XBW==2 ;MAP BLT WRITE XBRW==3 ;MAP BOTH OPERANDS OF BLT ;KA10 PAGING BOX GOES BY WHETHER IT'S A READ OR WRITE (OR RW) CYCLE ;KL10 PAGING BOX WORKS DIFFERENTLY (SEE BELOW) ;DO NOT USE MULTI-OPERAND INSTRUCTIONS (DMOVE, PUSH, ETC.) WITH XCTR The KL and KS are both different (although both use XCTR and XCTRI); the KL stuff is later down in that file; the special KS instructions are in KSHACK;KSDEFS > if anyone wants to look at them. Noel

9 years, 2 months

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ADM-3A Lower case ROM issue

by shatle＠nfldinet.com

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: ADM-3A Lower case ROM issue From: "Ian S. King" Date: Wed, December 14, 2016 1:30 am To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Take a look at the silk screen on the board - ISTR there's another chip that needs to be added, some simple TTL logic. I converted mine several years ago without problems - but that was with the original ROM. -- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate -- Just as a follow-up - I got the two RAM ICs that were missing (2102 1K RAM), and installed those along with the lower-case ROM, and everything now works great. Thanks everyone for your expertise and tips! Steve

9 years, 2 months

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PDP-6s at MIT

by bygg＠cafax.se

> Did the original KA10 have XCT too? XCT is present in all PDP-10 processors. From the KI10 and onwards it includes PXCT, since these have the concept of a previous context... Given a pager for the KA10 PXCT would make sense there. > Noel --Johnny

9 years, 2 months

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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Lars Brinkhoff > Does anyone know more about this PDP-6? Did it ever run ITS, like its > PDP-10 successor? I don't know about the software run on the two PDP-6's - by the time I arrived at MIT, they were both powered off and never, as far as I know, ever ran again. I would _assume_ that it ran ITS. I don't recall if the physical remains stayed until the KA's were de-commissioned, or of they were removed prior to that - I suspect they stayed, since they were mixed in with the KA's - in the case of AI at least, wired in together - but don't remember exactly. I don't recall if the I/O bus was shared between the two CPUs on the DM machines, the way it was on the AI KA and PDP-6. The DM PDP-6 was part of the DM KA 'assembly' - DM was in two rows (front and back) to the right of the right-hand door from the lobby into the machine room. IIRC, the PDP-6 was in the front row, to the right? of the KA CPU. (The back row contained memory boxes - a mix of different DEC memories. I don't recall where the tape and disk controllers were - or the disk drives. I seem to vaguely recall a few boxes to the left of the KA CPU? Maybe there are some pictures of the MAC machine room that will show it.) Noel

9 years, 2 months

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by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Hi folks, I have an 8085-based viewdata telephone system on the bench that's proving to be a labour of love in trying to get it running with zero documentation - there are only 6 known examples that I've come across and all but 2 of them are in museums, none known to work. If any of you fancy searching it's an STC Executel 3910 and at least two of the hits you'll get will be my machine before I bought it. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/stcexecutel01.jpg I've been in contact with all museums who have one, no luck on docs though the Museum of Computing which is local to me MAY have some (Jason the owner has 2 3910s himself), I just need to get down there and search for it :) Kind-of-fortunately the viewdata side of things seems standard - all 74LS TTL with an MC3242AP running 16x 4116-2 DRAMs, 27128 EEPROMs etc. The viewdata side of things is powered by a Plessey MR9735-002 teletext processor supported by a pair of 2112 RAM chips and an SAA5070 "LUCY". http://txlib.mb21.co.uk/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2034 ROM selection is done by a PAL but my EEPROM reader has verified that's OK and I have a dump of it as well as all the ROMs. Unfortunately it's suffered battery leakage and it was seemingly stored on its back in a very damp environment so some of the capacitors at the rear of the board have rotted and bits of the analogue board for the 5" TV had rusted to nothing, though I've replaced those. What I originally thought was an analogue board issue that I posted about here has turned into a total lack of timing issue so I've been tracing out all the circuits and building a schematic of the board. All was well until I came to the two chips you can see in the centre of this pic that have no markings (9B and 10B on the board): http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/stcexecuteltimingcircuits.jpg They aren't 'standard' 14-pin DIPs in that they don't follow the GND-on-pin-7-Vcc-on-pin-14 layout. Pins 6 and 7 on both are wired together (not to GND) and form the RESET signal for the 8085 via the 7414 at 10A, source for this signal is unknown currently. Pin 5 on both appears to be Vcc and pin 10 is GND or at least are pulled high and low respectively. The XTAL you can see with its supporting resistors is connected to the 7404 at 12B, pin 12 of which goes to pin 1 of 10B (one of the mystery chips) and pin 1 (X1) of the 8085. Any clues? I'm going to search for reference 8085 boards (and I guess 8086?) layouts to see if there are any similarities in timing circuits but for now I'm stumped. Cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?

9 years, 2 months

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Motorola MC14081B

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Evening folks, (it's evening here) Typically for troubleshooting around $FESTIVAL I find a more-than-likely dead MC14081B (CMOS quad dual-input AND gates) just as UK postage ends for the next few days so getting a replacement won't happen until next week. Question is, aside from having to make up an adapter board to change the pins around and making sure Vcc is +5V is there any reason I can't use something like a 74LS08 for testing? One of the outputs is RESET for an 8085A so nothing too demanding. (I might have a CD4081B somewhere too, which is pin compatible according to the datasheet) Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?

9 years, 2 months

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Late 90s Macintosh systems available to So Cal

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

I have a small pile of late 90s Macintosh systems available for someone to pick-up in 92656. Performa 6400/100 tower Some PowerBooks - 3400, 5300, 7630 Also boxes of cables and software. LaserWriter 4/600P Makes a great Christmas present! Thanks- Steve.

9 years, 2 months

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Wanted Dead or Alive: Tadpole N40

by ian.finder＠gmail.com

Been having a baaaad month for hardware longevity. Lots of systems have died in 2016... A miserable year. Just took my only two Tadpole N40s out of cold storage and both are having some serious issues, stopping at 260 post code, no video, no status LCD, etc. If I had one more system, I'm sure I could get one running. If you have an N40 for sale, or that you'd consider selling, please ping me. I'd love to pay you for it :) Thanks, - Ian -- Ian Finder (206) 395-MIPS ian.finder at gmail.com

9 years, 2 months

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Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

by spereira1952＠comcast.net

Hello folks, I was (finally) lucky enough to acquire an Altair 680 back in November, and I have been able to get it back up and running, too. Now that I have a fully working stock Altair 680, I am interested in acquiring expansion boards for it. If anyone has any Altair 680 expansion boards, especially a memory expansion board, that they are willing to part with, please let me know. Thanks for listening. smp -- Stephen M. Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE

9 years, 2 months

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Bounty: Motorola Tango

by cctalk＠snarc.net

Anyone have a Motorola Tango? It's a two-way pager from 1995. If you have one, then contact me privately. Can't discuss this on the list.

9 years, 2 months

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Felton, CA: Free kit - compact macs, //e, //c, etc

by salgernon＠me.com

So, I need to debulk my collection. A few years ago I took about 1/3 this much to the Foothill (now DeAnza, I guess) fleamarket and came away with $2k, which almost covered the cost of the storage locker it had been in! What you do with it would be up to you. I've got about 15? 2x2x3 ish plastic totes full of cables, floppies, development tools (pascal, tmon) and there's an apple //e, several //c, se/30, classic, hard drives. LocalTalk connectors. All fairly clean and non-smoking. I think there's a mac rom emulator, an Apple // CFFA card, probably a puppy or two. Must take it all! It's probably two pickups worth or one uhaul. My place is in downtown Felton, should be easy to park and load up although I'm physically limited in what I can do to help. Shipping is not an option unless you arrange a crating / hauling company. Please reply off list for best results. Cheers, --sma

9 years, 2 months

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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> I suppose it's likely they both used the same master/slave > configuration. However, there's one thing I found that may indicate > that the DM machine went in an other direction. I think the latter may be true, I have this vague sense that the two DM machines were never interonnected the way the AI pair were. For one, the DM people didn't have a bunch of oddball hardware connected to their main machine, the way the AI people did. (There was a special Evans+ Sutherland display processor, but that's about it. The ITS sources will probably have a complete list, until the DM configuration section.) They also didn't have as deep a bench of hardware people. Also, I remember reading somewhere (it was decades ago, sorry, don't remember the source) that AI's paging box was subtly different from the one on DM; the AI one could IIRC, address 4 'moby's (a full PDP-10 address spare), and two (I think? I'm pretty sure all the KA's had two moby's of main memory) were used for the Fabritek 2-moby memory, one was for the PDP-6 (so the KA could see into it) and one was for the PDP-11's. (AI had a number of PDP-11's attached to it - one to drive the Xerox Graphic Printer, one to drive the Knight TV system, and I think maybe one more, the so-called I/O -11 - or was that on MC, which had two -11's - the standard KL front console -11, and I think one more? I'm can't quite remember, although I'm pretty sure neither DM or ML had any -11's. Anyway, on AI, the KA could see into the memory of its PDP-11's. If you look at the ITS sources this probably is all laid out there.) So probably the DM -6 and -10 were two separate machines. > MX kl10 (expand ML group to high performance) Actually, this machine was named MC when it first arrived, and kept that name until its 'replacement', a KS, arrived, _many_ years later. (They didn't want to give the new machine a new name, since there were a ton of mailing lists on 'MC', and it was easier to swap the machine names.) It was renamed 'MX' at that point. It was called 'MC' since it was bought for the Macsyma Consortium (part of LCS, not sure if it was part of the ML group, it might have been). Noel

9 years, 2 months

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WTB: Apple II Workstation Card

by shatle＠nfldinet.com

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: WTB: Apple II Workstation Card From: "Mark J. Blair" <nf6x at nf6x.net> Date: Tue, December 20, 2016 2:20 pm To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > On Dec 20, 2016, at 10:56, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: > > Looks like one just sold a week ago for $99... > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-IIe-Workstation-Card-Model-Part-Numbers-820-0… > > Maybe for that kind of money one will shake loose? > I'd pay $99 for one, but it would have to through a different channel than eBay. -- That's more than I'd _like_ to pay, but I don't have a lot of data to compare it with... Steve

9 years, 2 months

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WTB: Apple II Workstation Card

by w9gb＠icloud.com

Mark - I worked for an Apple / IBM / network dealer, during graduate school (1983-1985). The Corvus OmniNet solution was actually more popular for the Apple II -- especially with elementary schools (which was over 50% of store's Apple business). Apple, as you noted, had multiple network solutions (LocalTalk, AppleTalk in 1985) during the 1980s and Macintosh introduction (1984). LocalTalk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LocalTalk AppleTalk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleTalk --- In many ways, Steve Jobs "missed" the significance of networking for Macintosh launch (as did Microsoft with DOS) in this period ... even though he saw Xerox implementation, that eventually became 3Com. greg w9gb === > After playing with my Apple IIe all weekend, my new obsession du jour is to network it > with my vintage Macintoshes. So, does anybody have an Apple II Workstation Card > available for sale or trade? Act now, before I get distracted by another shiny object! :) -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/ Sent from iPad Air

9 years, 2 months

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WTB: Apple II Workstation Card

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Amazing! thanks Mark! Hope they are back in production soon. Great to be able to have the II hooked to the Internet! Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 12/19/2016 12:48:07 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, nf6x at nf6x.net writes: > On Dec 19, 2016, at 11:34 AM, COURYHOUSE at aol.com wrote: > > too bad someone has not made a new modern network card to put old Apple II on a current network...or have they? There are the Uthernet boards: http://a2retrosystems.com Looks like the Uthernet II is not in stock right now. I might get on the waiting list for the text run, so I can play with one. But I'm still interested in playing with the vintage AppleTalk stuff, anyway. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

9 years, 2 months

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WTB: Apple II Workstation Card

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

too bad someone has not made a new modern network card to put old Apple II on a current network...or have they? Ed# In a message dated 12/19/2016 12:31:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, nf6x at nf6x.net writes: After playing with my Apple IIe all weekend, my new obsession du jour is to network it with my vintage Macintoshes. So, does anybody have an Apple II Workstation Card available for sale or trade? Act now, before I get distracted by another shiny object! :) -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

9 years, 2 months

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WTB: Apple II Workstation Card

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

After playing with my Apple IIe all weekend, my new obsession du jour is to network it with my vintage Macintoshes. So, does anybody have an Apple II Workstation Card available for sale or trade? Act now, before I get distracted by another shiny object! :) -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

9 years, 2 months

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VCF East keynotes: Enigma, Stroustrup (C++), 40 yrs of appliance computers

by cctalk＠snarc.net

C++ inventor Bjarne Stroustrup, Ph.D., Enigma machine expert Tom Perera, Ph.D., and a panel discussion by computer historian Bill Degnan on the 40th anniversary of appliance computers featuring the Apple II, Commodore PET 2001, and TRS-80 Model 1 will be the keynote sessions for Vintage Computer Festival East XII, March 31-April 2, in Wall, New Jersey. The event is produced by Vintage Computer Federation (www.vcfed.org), a national user group devoted to enabling hobbyists and spreading awareness of computer history. The Federation is a 501(c)3 non-profit. Stroustrup (www.stroustrup.com), who developed the C++ programming language at Bell Labs starting in 1978, will discuss "The Origins and further Evolution of C++" on Saturday morning, April 1. He is currently a visiting professor of computer science at Columbia University and a managing director in the technology division at Morgan Stanley. His talk is sure to be an excellent follow-up to C language author and pioneer Brian Kernighan, who spoke at VCF East X in 2015. Perera's company, EnigmaMuseum.com, is in the business of hunting for, researching, restoring, and selling Enigma machines and related items. His talk, "Inside the Enigma: The history, technology and deciphering of an early laptop computer and the real story of the Imitation Game" will be presented Friday, March 31 after lunch. The World War II German Enigma was arguably an original form of laptop computer. This talk will explain the history and technology of the Enigma and link it to the movie "Imitation Game" which tells the story of the cracking of the German Navy Enigma code and the extraordinary contributions of mathematician Alan Turing to this endeavor. In order to keep the audience interested and involved, the movie has allowed some inaccuracies and omissions in the history and technology and in the masterful portrayal of the eccentric mathematician Alan Turing by Benedict Cumberbatch. This talk will trace the actual story of the Enigma and the cracking of the Enigma Code and attempt to fill in some of the Enigmatic aspects of Alan Turing's personality. Perera will also give a more technical demonstration of how the machines work and a real-time disassembly of an Enigma in a separate session that day. He will give further demonstrations and will offer for sale his Enigmas, Enigma simulators, other historic cipher machines, books, Enigma Library CD-ROM, and related items on Saturday and Sunday. Perera was formerly a professor of neuroscience at Columbia University, Barnard College, and Montclair State University. Degnan (www.vintagecomputer.net) is a co-founder of the Mid-Atlantic chapter of Vintage Computer Federation, a professional programmer and web developer, and formerly taught computer history at the University of Delaware. At his panel, "1977: The year of the appliance computer" you'll learn about the launch of the Apple II, Commodore PET 2001, and Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 1. Bill will guide the discussion to explore how the appliance computer facilitated the expansion of computers as an appliance into small businesses, schools, and the home. Panelists will be separated into three groups each representing the Apple, Commodore, and Tandy/Radio Shack perspective. The panel will respond to questions and share their knowledge and personal experiences. The discussion will continue from 1977 through the milestones of 1980s 8-bit appliance and home computing. All three sessions will be 90 minutes which includes audience Q&A. Further details will be shared as the event nears.

9 years, 2 months

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AW: Re: Rack-mounting a TU56 (Jay West)

by gerhard.kreuzer＠liftoff.at

Yes please -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Im Auftrag von cctalk-request at classiccmp.org Gesendet: Sonntag, 18. Dezember 2016 19:00 An: cctalk at classiccmp.org Betreff: cctalk Digest, Vol 30, Issue 18 Send cctalk mailing list submissions to cctalk at classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctalk-request at classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."

9 years, 2 months

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IBM XT 5160 Keyboard issues

by lyokoboy0＠gmail.com

I was happy to find a IBM XT for a good price at the scrapyard today in very nice condition. It is missing the hard drive, but i have plenty of those, the controller was still inside. I had a little issue getting video working at first, i do not have a 9 pin cga monitor laying around, thankfully i found a 16 bit isa card that also works in an 8 bit slot. The machine starts up and runs its memory test, however it gives a 301 error. System halts and says press f1 to continue, but no luck, keyboard is unresponsive. I have tried about 10 different keyboards on the machine, including some model M keyboards with a ps2 adapter with no luck. A quick search does turn up that 301 is a keyboard related error, but i am not sure what exactly the issue is. Am i doing something stupid here or am i looking at the possibility of something being wrong with the machine? --Devin

9 years, 2 months

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Base 64 posts to the list

by barythrin＠gmail.com

I'm not sure if it would make a difference but in your membership options to the list you can choose the format of the messages and how you'd like to receive them. I know my settings are plain text but I haven't played with the others to know if they have an option like that. The only time I've seen base 64 coded stuff are spam pop-ups trying to bypass plaintext filters. Interesting to hear there's some legitimate usage happening. -------- Original message --------From: jonas at otter.se Date: 12/2/16 4:45 AM (GMT-06:00) To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: Base 64 posts to the list some list posts have begun appearing in Base 64 format. I read the list in daily digest mode, and these posts are not converted to anything sensible

9 years, 2 months

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TU56 Run Capacitors (was Rack-mounting a TU56)

by bob＠theadamsons.co.uk

> Jay wrote: > Speaking of which - I'll put out a call again for if anyone wants to > get a group purchase on the motor run caps for a TU55/56.... > I'd be interested in a couple. I could only find some oversized stud-mounted ones when I refurbed my TU56 and although they're perfectly functional they don't look too good.

9 years, 2 months

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Rackmounting A Tu56

by bob＠theadamsons.co.uk

> Anyway, does anyone have experience of rack-mounting a TU56? It clearly > doesn't go on slide rails, it bolts directly to the rack (hinge down > the front > panel for access). I have the manuals from Bitsavers, they imply there > is some > kind of spacer block that goes under the TU56. Does anyone know what > that > is exactly so I can attempt to make one if it is needed. > > -tony I mounted my TU56 in an H960 recently(ish). The block you mention only acts as a support while you bolt the TU56 in and isn't needed afterwards. The TU56 is too heavy to easily support with one hand while you put in a couple of bolts - the manual advises separating the front panel and reassembli8ng after mounting but that seems more bother than it's worth. I bolted a piece of scrap across the H960 to hold the TU56 up while I put the bolts in. 5-minute job.

9 years, 2 months

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Rack-mounting a TU56 (Jay West)

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 13:12:45 -0600 > From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Rack-mounting a TU56 > > Speaking of which - I'll put out a call again for if anyone wants to get a > group purchase on the motor run caps for a TU55/56.... > > J > Yes please. -- Michael Thompson

9 years, 2 months

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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> I remember reading somewhere (it was decades ago, sorry, don't remember > the source) that AI's paging box was subtly different from the one on > DM; the AI one could IIRC, address 4 'moby's (a full PDP-10 address > spare), and two (I think? I'm pretty sure all the KA's had two moby's > of main memory) were used for the Fabritek 2-moby memory, one was for > the PDP-6 (so the KA could see into it) and one was for the PDP-11's. I wasn't able to track down the source of that, but reading ITS sources did confirm (see SYSTEM;CONFIF >) that the AI paging box had one more bit of output address than the ones on DM and ML. And the PDP-6 memory appeared at 03000000. I now recall that later in the AI KA's life, the Fabritek ('Moby') memory got flaky, and it was replaced with a kludge (done by HIC, according to the ITS source) which used a number of LISPM memory cards. > (AI had a number of PDP-11's attached to it - one to drive the Xerox > Graphic Printer, one to drive the Knight TV system, and I think maybe > one more, the so-called I/O -11 - or was that on MC, which had two > -11's - the standard KL front console -11, and I think one more? So the I/O-11 code (see SYSTEM;IOELEV >) ran on 3 PDP-11's; two on MC (one was the front console, interfaced through a DTE20, and one an I/O processor interfaced through a DL10 - this latter one was used to hook up to the CHAOS network). The other machine running this code was the so-called "CHAOS-Ether-Gateway" machine on AI (AI had two other -11's, as above). I had this vague memory that that machine was there before it was hooked up to either the CHAOS net, or the (3 Mbit) Ethernet, and it was doign something else, previously - but maybe not - maybe it was added to give the AI KA access to the CHAOS network? > From: David Bridgham dab at froghouse.org > I thought I'd heard that the 10s were connected to the Chaosnet through > 11s running MINITS. That would have required building a 10-11 interface for them.. :-) But if you look in SYSTEM;CONFIF > you can find this: IFE MCOND MLKA,[ .. DEFOPT CH10P==1 ;CHAOS NET VIA PDP-10 I/O BUS, NOT FRONT-END and then in SYSTEM;CHAOS > SUBTTL CH-10 HARDWARE DEFINITIONS IFN CH10P,[ CHX==470 ;I/O DEVICE NUMBER ;CONI/CONO BITS So there were PDP-10 I/O bus CHAOS network interfaces. (Although I have absolutely no, zero, memory of them! :-) Noel

9 years, 2 months

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heavy stuff -- was: Anyone want an RK11-C manual?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning > Disassembling the mechanics is quite another matter. The spindle and > head actuator assemblies are precision mechanisms with very tight > tolerances and alignment requirements. Oh, I wouldn't take out anything that would require precision realignment. (I would certainly carefully read the entire maintenance manual before attempting to lighten it by removing things.) But some could come out - e.g. if the spindle drive motor uses a drive belt (many do), that would therefore be safe to take out. And the power supplies - you might want them out anyway, to recondition the caps, and check them out. Etc, etc. Noel

9 years, 2 months

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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Lars Brinkhoff > I wonder how the AI PDP-6 was used back in the day. I suppose ITS > development moved to the KA10 using the virtual memory pager, leaving > the 6 behind. But it was still attached as a slave CPU, right? Yes. There is a document, "February 1972 ITS Status Report", AIM-238, which is >from a point in time when both CPUs were in operation as a dual-CPU system, with paging on the KA10, and it contains a considerable amount of technical detail. It is available here: https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6194 as a scan, and someone has recently OCR'd it, here: http://its.victor.se/wiki/aim-238 The section you probably find most interesting is "Dual Processors" (pg. 29), which describes the unified, shared I/O bus. The earlier "ITS 1.5 Status Manual" might also be interesting; it covers a point in time when I think they only had a PDP-6. >> I think all the DM people are still around - why not ask one of them >> for more? > I will. I'd be interested to hear anything about the DM PDP-6 which you find out. Ideally it would be optimal to load any information into the Computer History Wiki, but alas, creation of new accounts on that seems to be wedged at the moment; I'm working on trying to get that solved. Noel

9 years, 2 months

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Rack-mounting a TU56

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

Van: Ethan Dicks<mailto:ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Verzonden: vrijdag 16 december 2016 20:43 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org> Onderwerp: Re: Rack-mounting a TU56 On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Speaking of which - I'll put out a call again for if anyone wants to get a group purchase on the motor run caps for a TU55/56.... I need a few. -ethan I have one TU56. There will come a day that I am up to connect it ? Until then I don?t know in what shape the run caps are, so I probably do wise to join in this group buy opportunity ? depending the cost ? * Henk, PA8PDP

9 years, 2 months

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ISO: RL02 cable

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- I'm in need of an RL02 cable (drive to drive). I picked up a second drive for my PDP-11/40 and I'd like to get it hooked up. Thanks as always, Josh

9 years, 2 months

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heavy stuff -- was: Anyone want an RK11-C manual?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Henk Gooijen > I really do not want to mess with the mechanical construction of the > entire RP03 drive. ... I want to move them "as is". Well, don't forget, you're probably going to want to go through them thoroughly before you try and use them, and you might do a fair amount of dis-assembly for that anyway. So a certain amount of 'taking apart' to get it out would be useful. Noel

9 years, 2 months

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A Healthy Haul for the Holidays? Tuscon, AZ

by silent700＠gmail.com

Spotted on Craigslist, no prices known, no relation to seller, but some nice items: https://tucson.craigslist.org/sys/5846658097.html Highlights (IMO): 3B2/400, Xerox Star, HP6000/300, Televideo 910 and lots of micro and workstation stuff besides. -j

9 years, 2 months

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Found in data center

by pete＠petelancashire.com

An old cabinet that only IBM had the key, they came by took what they wanted and left it full I only got a quick shot of what's in there .. any interest ? Located Portland, Oregon https://goo.gl/photos/rSUZ9nnxsrxN8nku5

9 years, 2 months

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heavy stuff -- was: Anyone want an RK11-C manual?

by ed＠groenenberg.net

Henk, Have you tried using a block and tackle to pull the drived up the stairs using the planks? Ed -- Ik email, dus ik besta. BTC : 1J5fajt8ptyZ2V1YURj3YJZhe5j3fJVSHN LTC : LP2WuEmYPbpWUBqMFGJfdm7pdHEW7fKvDz On Fri, December 16, 2016 21:23, Henk Gooijen wrote: > > > > Van: Tony Duell<mailto:ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> > Verzonden: vrijdag 16 december 2016 17:54 > Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Onderwerp: Re: Anyone want an RK11-C manual? > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> > wrote: >> >> But I am not giving up hope ??? I recently acquired something I did not >> think >> to be possible to happen ??? I ???picked up??? an H960 rack with RP11 >> controller >> and *three* RP03 disk drives aand 6 packs. The rack is already moved, >> the >> drives are a separate story. Each drive weighs 415 lbs. ???So what??? >> you might >> ask. Well, they are in a cellar and three flights of stairs (10 steps, 6 >> steps, >> and 4 steps) is too much for 3 strong guys to push one drive up the >> stairs. >> We are now looking into another option to get the drives (and a DEC >> _line_printer, also very very heavy!) up to the first floor ??? > > Can these units be dismantled without totally losing alignment,etc. At > least > remove PSUs, spindle motors, etc. I once moved an RA60 (much lighter, > but still too heavy for one person to carry easily) downstairs by taking > it > almost completely apart. Incidentally, it is surprising how much the PCBs > in a full cardcage weight, it is often worth pulling them all out. > > I suspect an RP03 dismantled like that would still be too heavy for one > person > to move, but with 3 people it might be possible. > > I hope your upstairs floor is strong enough for them... You do not want > them > coming back downstairs at 9.81m/s^2 > > -tony > > > Grin ??? I don???t plan to check whether Mother Earth???s acceleration is > still working fine. > Indeed, the RA60 is heavy. Just like RA81???s, the RA60 is not good for > your back, but > the RA60 is worse than the RA81. The RA60 is also ???longer??? compared to > the RA81, > and that does not help either when you hav to move an RA60 around. > > I really do not want to mess with the mechanical construction of the > entire RP03 > drive. They are too rare. I want to move them ???as is???. The only thing > that can be > done easily is removing the side panels. > However, the ceiling in the cellar has an opening although that is > currently welded > by a closing lid. The system was installed in the 80ties, and it is not > remembered > how the system got into the cellar back then. The system has operated in > that cellar > for almost 20 years (PDP-11/40, RP11, Kennedy 9100 ??? 3 H960 rack > system). > > I used wooden planks (shelves) laid on the stairs, and then pushed the > racks up. > It was heavy, even for 3 strong guys --- OK, 2.5 ???? I removed the > Kennedy tape > drive to make the rack less heavy. The rack with the RP11 controller was > also > heavy, but I really did not want to pull or dismantle anything of it. We > got it out > of the cellar. The 11/40 (the 21??? version in BA11-F, IIRC) rack had, to > my surprise > an extra BA11-F with its H742 PSU ??? One H742 PSU is already heavy, so > two of > these beast made the rack way too heavy. I ended up with disconnecting > the > power harness and move the 11/40 separately. That made it possible to > move > the rack upstairs (with sweat and some swearing ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H calling > in the help of some gods ???? > > We did try moving one RP03 by pushing it upstairs using the ???planks??? > trick. > Three guys asking ???are we pushing???? Yes, but the drive did not move > at all. > The RP03 is by far the most heavy item I encountered in 20 years! > We are now looking into the option to hoist the drives via the hatch in > the > Ceiling. Needless to say we take all possible precautions ??? for people > and for > RP03???s. > > To be continued, > > * Henk, PA8PDP > > >

9 years, 2 months

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Rack-mounting a TU56

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

Van: Jay West<mailto:jwest at classiccmp.org> Verzonden: vrijdag 16 december 2016 21:05 Aan: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org> Onderwerp: RE: Rack-mounting a TU56 Ok I just double-checked my 8E racks, and it refreshed my memory. The support bracket is not necessary. I believe that it provided no benefit after the TU56 was mounted... it was merely present in order to make it even possible for one person to bolt the tu56 to the uprights. It is a non-trivial amount of weight, so holding it in place while bolting it in is tenuous at the least and most likely impossible. The support bracket just provides a front edge to help hold it up during installation. But given the weight, I'd not try it "just to see" ;) YMMV That is my experience too. But I did that mounting job in the rack back when I was 15 years younger. Age does not help in this case. It can be done by one person, but indeed ? it is not non-trivial! If you start with an empty rack, and the TU56 is the first device you want to install in the rack, you can lay down the rack on the floor and then ?drop? the drive into the rack. Bolting it in place with the 4 screws at each side is ?piece of cake?. I used this ?procedure? also to mount two RK05 drive in the top of an H960 rack. Getting the rack upright with the two RK05?s was another story ? The more a rack is filled (in the lower part), the heavier tilting and laying down will become, but it is possible. * Henk, PA8PDP

9 years, 2 months

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HP 9875A usable for interchange with 85 or 9825?

by cruff＠ruffspot.net

I?m working on getting my 9875A dual DC100A tape drive operational, but have come across a strange issue. This 9875A seems to have the reversed sense of on which reel the rewind places the tape as compared to my 85B and 9825T (which agree is the left hand one as viewed when inserting the tape into the drive). I don?t yet know that the 9875A is operating fully, but it passes the non-tape movement selftest. The 9875A manual mentions it being useful for interchange among systems, and the tape structure (Standard Interchange Format - SIL) matches that of the 98x5 series, and it appears uses the same tape control chip as described in the April 1978 HP Journal article on the 9845. I guess there could be a failure on the tape control board that is reversing the motor control direction, as both drives behave in the same way, or is causing the firmware to think it is at the wrong end of the tape. Has anyone used the 9875A in this way? I was thinking it could be a way to load binary programs into the 9825.

9 years, 2 months

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Anyone want an RK11-C manual?

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

Van: Noel Chiappa<mailto:jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Verzonden: vrijdag 16 december 2016 17:08 Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org> CC: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu<mailto:jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Onderwerp: Anyone want an RK11-C manual? As I finish going through the mounds of paper I've recently aquired, I now have a extra (duplicate) copy of the RK11-C manual (in the format of the early 11/20 manuals, i.e. 11"x17" sheets). Is anyone here qinterested in having it? Preferably somehow who actually has an RK11-C - I know there's at least one person on CCTalk who has one. If so, please let me know. (People who actually have an RK11-C get preference. And if you already have a copy, please don't try and hoard a second! :-) Noel I remember a week in 2005 (or thereabouts) when one RK11-C was on eBay. It went for $57 (IIRC). There have been a few occasions since then that I slap myself for not at least trying to get it ? Never seen a single RK11-C ever since. But I am not giving up hope ? I recently acquired something I did not think to be possible to happen ? I ?picked up? an H960 rack with RP11 controller and *three* RP03 disk drives aand 6 packs. The rack is already moved, the drives are a separate story. Each drive weighs 415 lbs. ?So what? you might ask. Well, they are in a cellar and three flights of stairs (10 steps, 6 steps, and 4 steps) is too much for 3 strong guys to push one drive up the stairs. We are now looking into another option to get the drives (and a DEC _line_printer, also very very heavy!) up to the first floor ? * Henk, PA8PDP

9 years, 2 months

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Anyone want an RK11-C manual?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

As I finish going through the mounds of paper I've recently aquired, I now have a extra (duplicate) copy of the RK11-C manual (in the format of the early 11/20 manuals, i.e. 11"x17" sheets). Is anyone here qinterested in having it? Preferably somehow who actually has an RK11-C - I know there's at least one person on CCTalk who has one. If so, please let me know. (People who actually have an RK11-C get preference. And if you already have a copy, please don't try and hoard a second! :-) Noel

9 years, 2 months

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An interesting use of the 4004 instructions

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

I was looking at some disassembled 4004 code when I came across a SKIP operation. It isn't normally an instruction but If you do a JCN with all the CCCC = 0, it will do a NEVER jump. This is the equivalent of a SKIP instruction. I would suppose a JCN with CCCC = $8000 would be an always jump, on page ( not real useful as JUN takes the same cycles and space ). I thought at first there was some errors in the code because there were JMS to the middle of JCN instruction but then I noticed that there were no conditions specified for the JCN. A little thought and I realized it was a way to skip over a single byte instruction. Dwight

9 years, 2 months

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DisplayWriter apparently on Craigslist...

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55404-IBM-Displaywriter Dave Wade G4UGM & EA7KAE

9 years, 2 months

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PDP-6s at MIT

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> It great to have such a detailed description of the DM PDP-6. I hope you're not being serious! There was almost no detail there. But... > I suppose that since the DynaMod group got their 10 shortly after the 6, > they may have focused on getting the 10 up and running. Maybe they > didn't bother to make the 6 run in timesharing mode. I think all the DM people are still around - why not ask one of them for more? Probably best to start with Al Vezza, the group leader; I don't have a guaranteed e-mail for him, and a quick Google didn't show a page for him anywhere, but the e-mail address on his WWW resignation note page is the same as the one on his MIT information entry, so maybe it still works. Jack Haverty was in the group for a while early on, too: http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/internet-history/2012-May/002288.html Another possibility is P. Dave Lebling (PDL). Or Tim Anderson (TAA) if you can't get ahold of him. Noel

9 years, 2 months

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6502 code

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

Hi There has been so much PDP and other stuff lately I kind of feel out of place asking about 6502 stuff. Anyway, I've mentioned on the 6502.org that QuickSort is not always the fastest sort. So I wrote a 6502 assembly sort but don't have a machine big enough to test it on. I've only got my KIM-1 just working. I was hoping someone would like to help me out, possible a Commodore64, maybe even a PET or Apple II. It needs about 24 page zero bytes and about 5K of RAM. It sorts 1K of 16bit integers. Anyway, if someone would like to help, let me know. I've made several passes through the code and believe it to be close to bug free but know I'm bound to have a couple left. See it as a challenge! Thanks Dwight

9 years, 2 months

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WTB 12/16MB RAM (MS42-BA/CA) for VAXstation 3100/30

by jacek.greniger＠gmail.com

Hi, Recently I acquired pretty nice VAXstation 3100/30. It has GPX graphics card, two RZ23 disks (one dead, second cause short circuit but after removing tantalium capacitor on +12V line looks to be working) and MS42-AB 4MB memory extension card. Installed NetBSD under SIMH and disk image will be moved to physical drive when I will find one (100MB is not enough). But the bigger problem for me is to find 12MB or 16MB memory extension for this machine. So I'm looking for MS42-BA or better MS42-CA (16MB) card. Maybe there is somebody who is willing to part with it. My location is Poland. Best regards Jacek

9 years, 2 months

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