- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by geoffr＠zipcon.net

And the "AOS Windows" Disk is NOT MS-Windows... the ONLY reason that any of the disks say anything about MS is that at that point Xenix was still owned my Microsoft.... At 03:39 AM 2/28/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Bill Dawson wrote: > > > This page says it all: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004856941 > > > > And check out the TOS! ROLF. > >Gosh, what an idiot... I might even have a similar set of disks around >somewhere. > >-Toth

23 years, 9 months

8
7
0 0

Need paper tape encoding format

by vcf＠vintage.org

Is there info somewhere that shows how symbols are encoded onto paper tape? Ideally it would include the actual hole positions like so: 8 4 2 1 A: * B: * C: * * (Note: this is not an actual example but just an example of the format I'm looking for. Of course.) Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 9 months

4
3
0 0

Creed Teleprinters

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Once upon a time.... There were a bunch of these in the early hobby channel, say, around 1981... the seller had complete instructions for interfacing them, and included some rudimentary code for using overstrikes to simulate characters bot available in its 5-level (Murray?) coding scheme. They were going for $150 at the time, and I still could kick myself for not grabbing one, they looked pretty cool. Anyone got a garage full of them? -dq

23 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

Reply to: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime, Twice in Forever)

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> > Peart came in, and while they were impressed with his > > drumming abilities, they were also thinking, "Hey! This guy can READ!" Reminds me of the guy who went to an audition and was asked by the band leader if he could read music. He replied, "Not enough to screw up my playing." Also reminds me of "programmers" who can "write code" but seem unable to read other people's code. Has anyone else had this experience? I run into this sort of person all the time . . . Glen 0/0

23 years, 9 months

19
27
0 0

On the subject of freakish telecom shtuff..

by carolln＠nctc.com

Do you have any pictures of this telecompaq? I have a chance to buy one and was wondering what it looked like. What is it, 286, 386, 8088 or something else? Thanks for any help! Nathan

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Idiocy on eBay, I can't stop laughing!

by whdawson＠mlynk.com

This page says it all: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004856941 And check out the TOS! ROLF.

23 years, 9 months

6
8
0 0

Use of the tar command (in classic unix systems of course (^; )

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

Ok, Here's what I am doing for backup to DC tape drive.. ~500 mb per tape: tar -cvf /dev/st0 -L 500000 /root /etc (... mention many directories) is this correct for backup or do I need any other flags? How do I do an incremental? (This is assuming that I am using a "Classic" system running unix...) How do I recover a file? Thanks.

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

DEC BC09J cable

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 28, 6:16, Tothwolf wrote: > Cat5 (category 5 rated) cable is more appropriately called UTP (unshielded > twisted pair) cable. UTP cable is not shielded, and for serial > applications, the category rating isn't very important. Keep in mind that > category '5e' cable is much more difficult to work with compared to > category 5/4/3 if you are planning to install RJ45 connectors yourself, > due to molded pairs. I've only seen one brand of Cat5e with pairs bonded. Almost all the Cat5e I've worked with is very easy to untwist. "Cat6" is usually bonded, though. > As far as wire colors go, UTP cable has a standard > color code for the individual pairs, but the pinout varies depending on > the application for the cable. There are three standards for that, TIA 568A, TIA 568B, and USOC. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

DEC BC09J cable

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 28, 14:48, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > Do you mean for the outside sleeve, or the individual wires in the cable? > For the outside, there is no real standard color that I'm aware of, although > there is a standard ordering for the wires when crimping (I think it goes > orange, green, brown, blue (solid followed by white and color) but don't > quote me on that---it's been awhile since I've crimped CAT5 network cables). Not quite. It's white-with-colour then plain colour (or colour with a thin white stripe or rings), and the common order in Europe is T568B (aka 258A): white/orange pin 1 orange white/green blue white/blue green white/brown brown pin 8 I believe the common order in the States is to swap orange and green pairs, which is T568A. If you use one scheme at one end and the other scheme at the opposite end, you have a standard Ethernet crossover cable. ie, pins 1 and 2 are swapped with pins 3 and 6 but pins 4+5 and 7+8 are straight-through. > But for a regular CAT5 cable, as long as you use the same order for each > end, it'll work fine. Almost. You need to keep the pairs as pairs, on pins 1/2, 3/6, 4/5, and 7/8. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Multiple floppies in one system?

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Commands such as FORMAT, DISKCOPY and DISKCOMP ignore drive reassignments. Perhaps the MS install program did something similar to these commands. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 2:04 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Multiple floppies in one system? <snip> BUT, ... The INSTALL program of MS-DOS 6.00 would NOT work with an ASSIGNed drive!

23 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Windows 3.1 DDK

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Thought it would be interesting to do a Windows screen driver for the HP 95LX :-) -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:08 AM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Windows 3.1 DDK > > Does anyone have the Windows _3.0_ SDK/DDK? > Interesting request... planning on writing any real-mode Windows drivers? -dq

23 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Thunderscan

by marvin＠rain.org

I've got the scanner and adapter box for the Macintosh Thunderscan that I no longer want. $5.00 including Priority Mail shipping in the US (they include the box :)!) Email me if interested.

23 years, 9 months

1
1
0 0

Windows 3.1 DDK

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

Hello, all: Does anyone have the Windows 3.1 DDK (device driver deveopment kit)? I'm looking for it to do some spleunking of Win3.1 kernel code. I already have the SDK, but I need the DDK. Thanks. Rich

23 years, 9 months

9
10
0 0

OT: ClassicOffice Chairs

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Does anyone have a line on old office chairs with FOUR legs instead of the fscking OSHA-mandated FIVE legs? It is impossible to roll around in one of these without, when you roll back forward, having a single leg protruding such that it hits *anything* that might be in the way, like a table leg... grrr...

23 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

I want to buy a TU-58

by jhfine＠idirect.com

I am attempting to recover some files from a DECTAPE II cartridge. They are in RT-11 format, so the most useful drive would be a TU-58. Does anyone have a spare drive that they are willing to sell or at least rent for a long time? The one that I prefer is a dual desk top box with its own internal power supply and a 10 pin header on the back for connection to an RS-232 channel so it can be connected easily to a DLV11-J (or any other DL channel on a PDP-11 with some wiring changes). A TU-58 is normally standard with a PDP-11/44, so if the 11/44 is not in a state to be rescued, that at least if there is a TU-58 available, please contact me. They may also have been used with a VAX 11/780.

23 years, 9 months

5
4
0 0

Creed Teleprinters

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 28, 16:04, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Once upon a time.... > > There were a bunch of these in the early hobby channel, > say, around 1981... the seller had complete instructions > for interfacing them, and included some rudimentary code > for using overstrikes to simulate characters bot available > in its 5-level (Murray?) coding scheme. > > They were going for $150 at the time, and I still could > kick myself for not grabbing one, they looked pretty cool. > > Anyone got a garage full of them? Nope, my first printer was a 7B -- about 1981 -- but it's long since gone. It cost me a lot less than $150! I'm sure I've mentioned before how I wrote a driver for a Sorcerer for it, and how I changed the positions of some of the type slugs to make overstrikes easier. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

MZ3850

by RMChadwick＠aol.com

any body know what the instuction set for the MZ3850 CPU is or better still sourse code for the racal RA6790/gm or variant of that rx so i can change the cpu for one that works.

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

RX02 Bootstrap

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 27, 22:48, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Also, the last three locations are slightly different, but this > shouldn't present a problem: > > 2130 005000 CLR R0 > 2132 005007 CLR PC (my favourite PDP-11 instruction, really!) > 2134 000000 HALT I've seen one like that too. > > sectors, not two. The reason for missing the even-numbered sectors is > > because they are software interleaved to give time for the memory transfers > > between reads. > > I thought this is done by spacing the sectors on the disk surface (like > 1, 13, 2, 14, etc.) and having drive electronics deal with the sector > number from the preamble? Consequently, this would be a property of the > floppy that would be implemented when the media was formatted. RX02s are usually formatted with the physical sectors in strict order, so software interleave is used. > > Some versions actually have the HALT elsewhere. I once spent ages trying > > to work out the shortest variation on this bootstrap, IIRC I managed to > > save just one word. > > I think more significant savings could perhaps be obtained by > initializing a stack at the beginning and then using a subroutine like > > WAITRX: BIT R0, (R1) > BEQ $-4 > BMI ABORT > RTS PC > ABORT: HALT > > to wait for any of the TR, ERR or DONE bits to come up, instead of > repeating these instructions every time. Possibly. But if you work it out completely, I think you'll find you save very little. Not all of the tests are checking for an error, either. > Since you never set the INTR ENB bit in the RX2CS register, you just > need to keep your fingers crossed so no other device will issue an > interrupt request... ;-) Yes :-) > Yes. But this is neither a typo nor a printing error. If you read four > blocks of 200(8) _words_ each, starting at zero, you fill exactly > 2000(8) _bytes_, and the next free location is 2000(8). As you state, > the printed version is prepared for conversion to single density (by > clearing the 400 bit in locations 2036 and 2072, right?) by reading in > four blocks... - So, the reason is somewhat similar to that for the > TS-11. Yes, but if it's single density, which is the only reason you'd read four sectors, the sectors are 128 bytes [100(8)] not 256, so it's still only 1000(8). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

3
6
0 0

DSSI support for NetBSD: request for docs.

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 28, 0:16, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > On 2002.02.27 05:04 Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > > > > > I have the UDA50 manual > > Would that be EK-UDA50-UG-003? That's all I could turn up after > pawing through stuff that isn't in storage. > > I would really like to get my hands on the UDA50 programming manual. It > > seems to be extremely rare. > > I'd say so. I have two manuals that are relevant: "MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual AA-L619A-TK Version 1.2 A part of UDA50 Programmer's Doc. Kit QP-905-GZ First Edition April 1982" and "Storage System Diagnostics and Utility Protocol AA-L620A-TK A part of UDA50 Programmer's Doc. Kit QP905-GZ" -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Multiple floppies in one system?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > The Assign command works wonders in cases like these. Unfortunately > > > MicroSoulth dropped it from their later versions of DOS. Still you can > > > probaly use a copy from an older DOS and use other DOS cammand (that I > > > can't think of the name of) to fake it into thinking that it's running > > > under it's native DOS version. > > > > Could you be thinking of 'setver' (or was it called something else?) > > The MS-DOS ASSIGN command let you assign a drive letter for a drive, sort > of like an alias. > > I think the syntax was: > > ASSIGN D: C: > > Meaning D: would be the equivalent of C: Wow, sounds just like the DOS/CMD.EXE (NT, 2000) command called SUBST as in identical syntax... -dq

23 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Multiple floppies in one system?

by mtapley＠swri.edu

In the "useless trivia" category, DEC Rainbows all support 4 floppies (= 2 x RX50 drive) out of the box, though most came with only one RX50. IMPDRV, by Warner Losh, will let you hook up a 3.5" drive in place of one of those RX50's. However, I know of no way to get "normal" 5.25" or 8" drives hung onto the Rainbow, so I strongly suspect this is not of much use to you. - Mark

23 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Need paper tape encoding format

by kapteynr＠cboe.com

The format depends on the program writing the tape, binary or text. In "Binary" tapes, the eight holes correspond to a "byte", which is just loaded into memory, byte-by-byte. The problem is that paper tape readers are error prone and any binary error was a potential crash. To solve this problem, the Altair Basic "Boot" loader starts with a straight binary tape. The straight binary formart continues for a few hundred bytes during which a "checksum loader" is read. Then a special binary code on the tape triggers a jump from the "boot loader" to the "checksum loader". You can recognize the blocks of the checksum loader on the tape, because every foot or two, you see a code that consistently repeats. Text format paper tapes are almost always simple, standard ASCII codes translated into binary. Text format can be recognized because, in those days, ASCII was almost always limited to 7-bits. This means that the tape has a column on one edge with very few holes -- that is the column 8. The other side is column 1. Here is a link to an excellent 7-bit ASCII table that I just found: http://www.neurophys.wisc.edu/www/comp/docs/ascii.html Here is a clip from it: Decimal Octal Hex Binary Value 065 101 041 01000001 A 066 102 042 01000010 B 067 103 043 01000011 C 068 104 044 01000100 D 069 105 045 01000101 E So with column 8 on the left, you read like this: (Holes in the tape translate to binary "1"s.) xOxxxxxO translates to 01000001 binary -- which is the octal 101 -- which is a capital "A". xOxxxOxO translates to 01000101 binary -- which is the octal 105 -- which is a capital "E". Most of us found "Octal" codes easiest to work with manually -- Hex became popular later. Got It ? -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [SMTP:vcf@vintage.org] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:51 AM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: Need paper tape encoding format Is there info somewhere that shows how symbols are encoded onto paper tape? Ideally it would include the actual hole positions like so: 8 4 2 1 A: * B: * C: * * (Note: this is not an actual example but just an example of the format I'm looking for. Of course.) Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

DEC BC09J cable

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> Robert F Schaefer wrote: > >Apparently the thought was to sell/bundle the 90 degree cable, to force the >purchaser to `upgrade' to the straight cable when it was necessry to plug >in more than one SCSI device. I cursed it soundly when I realized it >obstructed the pass-thru connector on the back of the TK50 I have. As all >my other SCSI toys have the HD connectors, I might have to end up getting a >50-pin centronics-like :) M-F cable to connect things. Sometimes the 90-degree cable works best and sometimes the straight one works best. The 90-degree ones work nicely at the back of a VS4000 ... not so much spce is needed at the back of the box (vents are at the sides!). Same deal goes with the 90-degree vs straight ethernet connectors. Horses for courses. Antonio

23 years, 9 months

9
12
0 0

Multiple floppies in one system?

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

ASSIGN (with the format such as "assign a=c" -- no colons allowed) "Instructs DOS to route disk I/O requests for one drive into disk I/O requests for another drive" (IBM DOS 3.30 Ref Manual). SUBST (with the format such as "subst g: c:\foo\bar") "Allows you to use a different drive specifier to refer to another drive or path." It's useful where a program does not recognize paths, but does recognize different drive letters. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:27 PM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Multiple floppies in one system? > > > The Assign command works wonders in cases like these. Unfortunately > > > MicroSoulth dropped it from their later versions of DOS. Still you can > > > probaly use a copy from an older DOS and use other DOS cammand (that I > > > can't think of the name of) to fake it into thinking that it's running > > > under it's native DOS version. > > > > Could you be thinking of 'setver' (or was it called something else?) > > The MS-DOS ASSIGN command let you assign a drive letter for a drive, sort > of like an alias. > > I think the syntax was: > > ASSIGN D: C: > > Meaning D: would be the equivalent of C: Wow, sounds just like the DOS/CMD.EXE (NT, 2000) command called SUBST as in identical syntax... -dq

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

RK05 Alignment packs

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Well, I've been searching for RK05 alignment packs, and though I've been very successful, I was hoping to find some at a cheaper price (hey, it never hurts to try...) Anyways, so far i've found 3 RK05 alignment packs available at various DEC resellers, but they are $150 each. And both 12 and 16 sector packs for $50 each for that matter. If someone is desperate enough to be interested at these prices, just let me know. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

DEC BC09J cable

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 28, 12:26, William S. wrote: > By shielded do you mean CAT5 cable? I was planning on > using that. Speaking of which, is there a proper > color to use? ie) grey, red, blue? This will only > be a home setup but was wondering if there is an > official color code. Cat5 and Cat5e are UTP (unshielded). There is an equivalent shielded (STP) cable but it's a slightly different impedance so it's not Cat5 standard. No, there isn't an official colour code, though many sites have a local convention. Ours is to use black for serial, purple for crossovers, yellow for student network, pink or brown for telecomms, and other colours ad-hoc to distinguish various subnets in areas where more than one is in use. Where I worked before, the code was grey normal network purple crossed cable orange uplink cable, not crossed but connected to one that is yellow student network in a staff area (or vice versa) pink management network green telephone connection blue ISDN connection red temporary connection -- do not touch black serial connection -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Multiple floppies in one system?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Wow, that's amazing!! I haven't seen anything like it from JDR since the 80's! A JDR product offering with something resembling a reasonable selling price! Are you sure that's not a typo on their webpage!?!? I think I'm going to faint . . . ;^) Jeff On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:06:32 GMT pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) writes: > On Feb 27, 17:23, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Well SOB - they still sell the MCT 8 bit 4 floppy controller - > about > 1/5th > > of what it used to cost in 85...here's a link to it: > > > > http://www.jdr.com/interact/item.asp?itemno=MCT-FDC-HD4 > > Interesting. Anyone know if it supports single density, and/or > works with > 8" drives (in conjunction with suitable cable adaptor)? > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

23 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

RISC manuals

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Because of the NatSemi 32000 manuals described on my web site at http://www.threedee.com/jcm/library/, I received this inquiry: "I am collecting manuals for RISC-type processors of the early 1990s. I haven't been able to find Power/Power 2 (the processor/s inside the IBM RS/6000 computers)... Why is that? " I know nothing of those machines. Can someone help me with an answer I can forward? - John

23 years, 9 months

4
3
0 0

Multiple floppies in one system?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

At 08:49 AM 2/28/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Joe wrote: > >> The Assign command works wonders in cases like these. Unfortunately >> MicroSoulth dropped it from their later versions of DOS. Still you can >> probaly use a copy from an older DOS and use other DOS cammand (that I >> can't think of the name of) to fake it into thinking that it's running >> under it's native DOS version. > >Could you be thinking of 'setver' Yes, that's it. I couldn't remember the name. Joe

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Fwd: Re: OT: cleaning pots on my vintage audio amp

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 28, 1:06, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > the "systematic" name (used almost everywhere *by chemists*) > > is "propan-2-ol"... > > Since it's been years since I've been in a chem lab... when did this > naming convention hit the States? In 1985, I'm fairly certain we > called it isopropanol. Perhaps my education was behind the times. Dunno. Perhaps it never did, but that's the systmatic nomenclature form. To be fair, though, the systematic names are more useful for more complex molecules, where there would otherwise be amiguity. > > > Even "aluminum" is different, but I don't remember how different... > > > > You mean "aluminium" :-) Like sodium, potassium, uranium, ... > > Platinium... err, wait... nevermind. ;-) Why do you think I didn't use that example? :-) Or molybdenium, tantalium, lanthanium. There are 65 elements whose names end in "ium", only four that end in "um" not "ium", and just one that varies according to geography :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Idiocy on eBay, I can't stop laughing!

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 2/28/2002 11:23:42 AM Central Standard Time, geneb(a)deltasoft.com writes: > On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Bill Dawson wrote: > > > > > This page says it all: > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004856941 > > > > > > And check out the TOS! ROLF. > > > > Gosh, what an idiot... I might even have a similar set of disks around > > somewhere. > > > Ahh, but were they hand carried to "Prevent Pirate Copy's"? *snicker* > > g. > here is his reply to me. I asked about collector qualifications, prepaid accomodations to out-of-area people to meet him and the provenance of the disks. >I asked for a collector, due to keeping the ppl away that tend to pest......the >exchange part just prevent eg: you buy the software and I send you, you copy then >send back to me and say it dosent work, nothing fancy, just like selling a Porche >and not letting every Tom, Dick and Hairy drive it. www.nothingtodo.org

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Cleaning up the list (was Re: Stanco della solita routine quotidiana??)

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

I second the motion -- this is getting ridiculous. I also volunteer to assist in moderation duties. Since I've run out of space, time, and money I have no desire to acquire any more machines, so I won't be tempted try to beat the list out of a fair shot at getting equipment offered by non-subscribers. And while I'm on a roll, here: Doc, how about coughing up the name of the list-member who tried to pull a fast one on you so that the rest of us can know how to deal with this person in future transactions? Kinda like Ebay feedback?? Glen 0/0 ---------- > From: John Allain <allain(a)panix.com> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Stanco della solita routine quotidiana?? > Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:06 AM > > Untitled DocumentChrissakes, no nonsubscribers! > > John A. >

23 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

Multiple floppies in one system?

by djenner＠earthlink.net

I'm putting together an old 486 system, one of whose main purposes will be to read/write floppies of several formats. Like 5.25" 360K, 720K, 1.2M, RX50, etc., and 3.5" 720K and 1.44M. I also want to be able to copy RX50s disk to disk on the appropriate drive type. So I figure it'll take 4 drives (or maybe 3 drives where one is a 3.5"/5.25" combo). All of these would be in one enclosure. The question is, how to do this without having to unplug/plug drives every time you want to make a configuration change? It would be nice to just be able to throw a switch or two to re-configure. Not having to get into the enclosure would be nice, too. I've thought of two ways to do it, but I'm not sure they'll work, or if there might not be a better way. 1) Plug all the drives into one control cable and switch on/off the power to the drives to select them. 2) Plug all the drives into one control cable and select the drives by switching a control line on the control cable. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave -- David C. Jenner djenner(a)earthlink.net

23 years, 9 months

11
31
0 0

Windows 3.1 DDK

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Does anyone have the Windows _3.0_ SDK/DDK? > Interesting request... planning on writing any real-mode Windows drivers? -dq

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Windows 3.1 DDK

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Does anyone have the Windows _3.0_ SDK/DDK? Bob -----Original Message----- From: Michael Holley [mailto:swtpc6800@attbi.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:52 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Windows 3.1 DDK I have a complete July 1995 Microsoft Developer Network CR-ROM set. It has a Windows 3.1 DDK CD. Send me an email with your address and I will mail you a copy of the DDK CD. Michael Holley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cini, Richard" <RCini(a)congressfinancial.com> To: "'ClassCompList'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:06 AM Subject: Windows 3.1 DDK > Hello, all: > > Does anyone have the Windows 3.1 DDK (device driver deveopment kit)? > I'm looking for it to do some spleunking of Win3.1 kernel code. I already > have the SDK, but I need the DDK. > > Thanks. > > Rich > >

23 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Multiple floppies in one system?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:48:02 -0600 (CST) Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> writes: > On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com wrote: > > > Wow, that's amazing!! I haven't seen anything like it from JDR > since > > the 80's! A JDR product offering with something resembling a > > reasonable selling price! > > > > Are you sure that's not a typo on their webpage!?!? > > I think I'm going to faint . . . > > I donno, that seems kinda high to me... Especially considering a > pair of ISA floppy controllers could be had for $10 ($5ea), or less. Well, consider that it's somewhat specialized (not 'stock'), NOS, and that the asking price is only 100% over what it's worth looks like a milestone to me! > JDR's "house brand" boards were nothing but re-badged major brand > and 'cheap junk' boards. They used to peel/scrape stickers and markings > off of boards made by companies such as Adaptec, Diamond, Promise, and > others before taking photos for their catalog. I might still have some of > those old catalogs around somewhere, but I probably tossed them. Hah! Reminds me of a reseller I used to work for. This Bozo would re-label *everything* (including the manuals). It was embarassing. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

23 years, 9 months

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Slashdot: Senators propose recycling fee on new PCs

by tothwolf＠concentric.net

As seen on Slashdot: Senators propose recycling fee on new PCs: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-843109.html A proposed bill like this one tends to cause me to worry... I've already seen firsthand the mess that the Texas bill that was passed for 'Data Processing Equipment' has caused. -Toth

23 years, 9 months

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Manuals

by dtwright＠uiuc.edu

The Teletype and IBM manuals I posted a couple weeks ago are being sent off to a good home. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest! - Dan Wright (dtwright(a)uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan

23 years, 9 months

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Multiple floppies in one system?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> 2) Plug all the drives into one control cable and select the drives by > switching a control line on the control cable. This is how I'd go, but the BIOS will only understand units 0 and 1, you'll need a device driver for units 2 & 3. Oh, and you'll need a *real* floppy interface cable, instead of the butchered IBM-style floppy cable that *every* PC I've seen has, except for the Zenith Z-150 family. -dq

23 years, 9 months

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Multiple floppies in one system?

by Gary.Messick＠itt.com

Joe, I think I remember using a Videologic DVA-4000. It was used to overlay NTSC video over VGA video. If I remember, you setup a specific color "block" through the VGA, and the NTSC came through that "window." Kinda like my understanding of Chroma-keying (sp?) Another thing it could do was overlay the VGA with "transparent" NTSC. We used it for demos of a ruggedized PC we were building at the time. It could do some impressive (at the time!) stuff. I don't recall the programming particulars, but don't remember it being that difficult. Let me know if you want further info. Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:09 AM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Multiple floppies in one system? > > > At 03:56 PM 2/27/02 -0800, Dave wrote: > >Wow, thanks for all the good ideas, and there's probably > more to come! > > > >I like the idea of getting a controller that will handle four drives. > >One of my 486 boards requires an ISA controller card, and the other, > >I think, lets you disable the onboard floppy controller, if > necessary. > > > >As Russ pointed out, there still is one available at JDR. > (I'll also > >check the bins at RE-PC.) Is the Compaticard IV available anywhere? > > Yes, they turn up on e-bay occasionallly. I frequently find them in > surplus stores. I go to one store in particular that rips > apart PCs and > puts all the cards out on the shelves without sorting through > them. I've > found several Compaticards there. The other thing that I do > is to ALLWAYS > look at the backs of all the PCs that show up in the scrap > places that I > visit and look for unusual connectors. I've found lots of > intersting cards > that way including a $30,000+ GPS reciever card. > > > >It looks like the neatest solution, especially if I can hook > 8" external > >drives to it, too. > > I think it's the best way especially if you want to play > with unusual > formats. You can get the optional Uniform software that the > manufacturer of > Compaticard sold (sells?) and it will let you read all kinds > of odd formats. > > Speaking of odd cards, a few days ago I spotted a strange > one. It's a > full length PC card with a long cable coming out of the back. > The other end > of the cable splits out into three pigtails, two have RCA > plugs and the > other had a BNC connector. The card was made by Video Logic > in the UK and I > think it was a model DVA 4000. Is anyone familar with it? > > Joe > ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************

23 years, 9 months

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Anyone Know Gary Oliver?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Does anyone know Gary Oliver? Once upon a time, he was subscribed to the list; have tried contacting him directly, with no luck... -dq

23 years, 9 months

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Multiple floppies in one system?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Wow, that's amazing!! I haven't seen anything like it from JDR > since the 80's! A JDR product offering with something resembling > a reasonable selling price! > > Are you sure that's not a typo on their webpage!?!? > I think I'm going to faint . . . The beancounter founder must have finally croaked... ;)

23 years, 9 months

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PING Colin Eby

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Sorry for the intrusion folks :-) Colin, Tried to send a message but your mail server bounced my email. I have the remainder of the books packaged and need your mailing address. Reply directly to me at: STEVEN_J_ROBERTSON(a)HOTMAIL.COM Thanks, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 9 months

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Packing materials

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 2/25/02 12:36:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, gkicomputers(a)yahoo.com writes: > whether it was recycled or not is irrelevent, either > way it would be illegal in USPS eyes and thats the > only thing that, legally speaking anyway, is > i I am not sure I understand you? I use Priority mail and order boxes by the carton. For me to turn a NEW box inside out and use it to ship some other way would be illegal. If my customer who receives a priority mail package, opens it and then reuses the box (by folding it inside out), I don't think they are breaking the law. Most of the Priority mail boxes use a glue to self seal. You then pull a tear strip to open the box. Technically the box is destroyed. However the small video tape size boxes really lend themselves to reuse by turning them inside out and taping them. I suspect this secondary use is not illegal. I call this recycling. Now a friend of mine bought a bunch of new USPS Priority Mail supplies in a lot at an auction. For him to use these inside out would be illegal even though he is not signed up with the Post Office Priority Mail. He was actually after the 26 pallets of new blank cardboard boxes with them which he sold on the secondary market. Paxton Astoria

23 years, 9 months

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Fwd: Re: OT: cleaning pots on my vintage audio amp

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

--- Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> wrote: > "iso-propyl alcohol" is the "old" name for it; "iso-propanol" is a more > modern version of the same name; Agreed. > the "systematic" name (used almost everywhere *by chemists*) > is "propan-2-ol"... Since it's been years since I've been in a chem lab... when did this naming convention hit the States? In 1985, I'm fairly certain we called it isopropanol. Perhaps my education was behind the times. > > Even "aluminum" is different, but I don't remember how different... > > You mean "aluminium" :-) Like sodium, potassium, uranium, ... Platinium... err, wait... nevermind. ;-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com

23 years, 9 months

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SCSI options for PDP 11/23

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 27, 20:49, Zane H. Healy wrote: > OK, what I see that concerns me is the fact you're using a 11/03 box. > Unless I'm mistaken the 11/03 was only Q16, which has me wondering how > you're even running a 11/23 CPU, which should be Q18, in it (it's possible > someone upgraded the backplane to be 18-bit). An 11/03 backplane is already 18-bit. BDAL16 and BDAL17 are bussed so it can use parity memory. It's also easy to upgrade to 22-bit, by soldering wrirewrap wire onto the extra 4 lines, though any 11/23 or 11/23+ will work fine (as an 18-bit system) without doing that. I can't think of anything that will fail to work on such a system, apart from software that needs more than 124KW of memory, obviously. Specifically, I/O page access will work coreectly for any properly designed device, and RT-11, RSX-11, etc will just see it as a normal 18-bit system. Oh, and an 11/23 would work fine on a 16-bit backplane, unless you wanted to use parity memory. The MMU wouldn't be useful (you could take it out, though you don't have to; an 11/23 will work fine with 28KW and no MMU chip). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

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DSSI support for NetBSD: request for docs.

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

Hi. Now that my RX01/02 driver for NetBSD and the accompanying "NetBSD device driver writing HOWTO" is nearly finished, I am looking forward for further challenges. I think will stay in the disk (and tape) department and write support for DSSI. I know that this is not a trivial task, but I will give it a serious try. So I have the usual problem: docs. I need docs about DSSI, the protocols that are used on it, the host adapter chips (SII and SHAC), MSCP, SCS, ... The KA6[46789]0 CPU and KDA50 / UDA50 programmers manuals should be a good start. So if this docs are online somwhere on the net, please give me a link. Thanks for your help. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

23 years, 9 months

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PDP-10 Emulators (was Re: Alpha AXP (was Re: MicroVAX 4000/VL C))

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> [TOPS-20...] > > Well, I'd like to run a TOPS-10 instead, seeing as there are already two > perfectly good TOPS-20 machines (Toad and XKLeTen) on the net, but TOPS-10 > does not support TCP/IP, and therefore won't run multi-user under KLH10. SIMH can do this now with a bogus DZ11 implementation, similar to what you were previously doing with Tim Stark's emulator... -dq

23 years, 9 months

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NEC applications processor

by rdd＠rddavis.org

Having what appears to be some sort of "applications processor" made by NEC, model 3401, class 5451, as well as another box labeled "class H6830-STD1-01-46," and not being able to obtain any information or documentation about this equipment, I'm not quite sure what do with them other than take them apart for parts. On the 3401, there are three ports labeled "LS Link," four labeled "HS Link," two labeled "System Bus" (channel A and channel B) and a diagnostics port. If anyone has a need for these boxes, or can provide me with any information about using them, then I'll consider not taking them apart, as tempting as that option is, considering that: they're taking up a fair amount of space, and have some useful ICs, wire, fans, PSUs, LEDs, memory, etc. inside, and the one case could be modified to hold several 5-1/4" hard drives and the PSU. I'd really like to find a way to use this equipment in it's present assembled form, however. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

23 years, 9 months

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RX02 / DSD440 problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 27, 10:48, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > It does look like it wants to go back to track zero. If I manually line > it up just right, it will power up correctly, but as soon as it wants to > go somewhere, the problem starts over. Meanwhile, the other drive lines > itself up just fine. Then it's possible that the drive to the stepper motor that turns the leadscrew is, er, screwed. It might only be one phase; if you can turn it easily by hand when it's powered up, then it's probably not being driven at all so look for a destroyed driver or lack of 12V (or is it 24V? ). If it tends to settle into certain positions and won't step but does sort of vibrate and isn't very easy to turn by hand when the power is on, it's probably just one phase; look for a blown driver transistor (if the drive has such) or a faulty stepper driver IC. It's also possible (though unlikely, in my experience) that one of the coils in the motor has burnt out. You can check that with an ohmmeter, comparing it to the working one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

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Multiple floppies in one system?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 27, 17:23, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Well SOB - they still sell the MCT 8 bit 4 floppy controller - about 1/5th > of what it used to cost in 85...here's a link to it: > > http://www.jdr.com/interact/item.asp?itemno=MCT-FDC-HD4 Interesting. Anyone know if it supports single density, and/or works with 8" drives (in conjunction with suitable cable adaptor)? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

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RX02 / DSD440 problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 27, 12:21, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Darn! - I disassembled the whole stuff manually yesterday evening! :-) I apologise for the slightly non-standard syntax used, notably for octal constants; it was rewritten for (and then assembled by) a home-grown cross-assembler. > Non-obvious is that only two sectors (1 and 3) need to be read: the code > in the manual continues up to sector 7 (constant in word 2124, or in > your copy, at 1124), in steps of 2 (BTW, why are even sectors skipped?). I think there were actually three errors in my original copy. Anyway, the version on my website is now correct. It's not the only way to do it, I've seen other versions (there are similar versions, not identical, but interestingly enough with mostly the same errors, in various RT-11 manuals, the Microcomputer Peripherals Handbook, and the RX02 Pocket Service Guide). The reason for the number of sectors is that you can use the same bootstrap with trivial alterations for a single-density boot, but then you need four. sectors, not two. The reason for missing the even-numbered sectors is because they are software interleaved to give time for the memory transfers between reads. > The most non-obvious error is using the word at location 1132 either as > a HALT instruction (when aborting bootstrap due to an error detected by > one of the BMIs) or as a constant to load into R0 (when finishing > bootstrap and passing control to address zero, for which a CLR PC is an > excellent JMP @#0 replacement). My copy of the LSI-11 manual had this > completely wrong - it would fail to abort properly. Some versions actually have the HALT elsewhere. I once spent ages trying to work out the shortest variation on this bootstrap, IIRC I managed to save just one word. > Starting the bootstrap might be easiest with a 1000G (or in the original > copy, 2000G). one command shorter than setting R7 to 1000 and then > <P>roceeding. The reason for the <P> instead of <G> is to avoid a bus reset, which makes the RX02 and some processors "do things". And you're supposed to disable interrupts by setting a mask in RS first. It doesn't use the stack, though, and any decent second-stage boot should set R6, so I suspect that's redundant. I'm surprised your version starts at 2000. By convention, all normal bootstraps and similar start at 1000 -- the best-known exceptions being XXDP code (starts at 200, same as on a PDP-8) and the TS11 bootstrap which starts at 10000 (to allow space for larger tape blocks). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

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RX02 / DSD440 problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 26, 13:41, Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > The first message I normally see is RT-11 loading...I never have to do > anything, it just boots from DY0:. If I don't have a disk in, or its > messed up for whatever reason, I get: > > 173326 > @ > > I looked a little closer inside the unit, and it doesn't seem to have a > belt. There's a worm actuator that shakes when on power up when it tries > to move back to its starting place. It can be moved by hand easily, so > it doesn't seem to be binding. That's the head positioner leadscrew. On powerup or a Bus Init, it should move back to track zero (maybe only if there's a disk in ithe drive, depending on the controller). The drive belt is on the underside of the drive. They often fall off. A quick way to test if the drive is turning, is to take a floppy, trun the disk in the jacket until the sector hole is visible in the round hoe in the jacket, put it in the drive, close the door, open the door, take the disk out, and see if the sector hole is still visible. Most 8" drives rotate all the time, so closing the door (which clamps the disk to the spindle) should turn it. The odds of the sector hole ending up in exactly the same place after this are minimal. It doesn't tell you if the drive is running at the correct speed, but it will tell you if it's not turning at all. If not, the most common causes are that the drive belt has slipped off the pulley, or that the plastic collet which clamps the disk has broken and isn't clamping, or not well enough. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

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PDP-10 Emulators (was Re: Alpha AXP (was Re: MicroVAX 4000/VLC))

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> Until I have a pressing need for 64 bits, I will probably keep this > box at a low priority, but if any of the PDP-10 emulators would > rather be on a medium to slow-speed 64-bit machine rather than on a > medium to fast 32-bit machine, I might dust it off. I just don't see > where it's anything besides cool for the sake of cool right now. I've not tried running KLH10 on the AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenBSD I have, but I've run the PDP-10 version of SIMH on it. You really don't want to do that. It was usable, BUT it was *CONSIDERABLY* slower than a KS10. I've got a 500Mhz Celeron w/256MB RAM, and a 8MB HD plugged into a bare MicroATX i810 board sitting on a shelf. It makes a killer PDP-10, and can run two copies of SIMH (TOPS-10 7.03 and TOPS-20 4.1) at or faster than KS10 speeds. Of course what I really like is the 1Ghz PIII running KLH10 running TOPS-20 V7.0, especially since I can telnet directly into it :^) Zane PS anyone looking for information on emulating DEC systems should see: http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html especially for PDP-10 emulation.

23 years, 9 months

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DSSI support for NetBSD: request for docs.

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Jochen wrote: > You mean it is possible to speak MSCP on a DSSI bus without > an additional protocol layer? > Or do you mean that (only?) non-DSSI controllers a la RQDXx and > KU]DA50 can speak MSCP without SCA/SCS? And Roar wrote: I have got a very strong feeling I was wrong. (Sorry) > But if you have to talk SCA/SCS with the DSSI-devices, that might > be a > problem, since SCA/SCS is not published, and no implementations are > available. In my experience with the SII chip you set up a buffer in its shared memory with the MSCP "packet" layed out, and the node number of where you wanted it to go at the front. Then you write the that address into the descriptor register and the SII chip picks it up and drops it off at the drive. In my case I was writing the equivalent of the SCSI INQUIRE command, and then a bit later, the SII chip interrupts you to tell you that there is a new descriptor in its buffers and if you look at it (which I did from the kernel debugger because I had just panic'd on the interrupt :-) you can see that the drive has returned to you the information you requested. Questions that were unanswered in my mind when I put this down about this time last year were: 1) maintaining the physical/virtual mapping between the 128KB buffer and main memory. 2) Hooking the MSCP code that was there so that it could fill in the packets. 3) Writing the bus "enumerator" for config so that I could create a device instance for each disk I found (tapes I would ignore for now) 4) Hooking send and receive queues through a top level structure that would feed/retrieve them from the SII chip. So I tried last night to get a 'diff' of my build tree from the cvs tree but since its from 1.5.1 pre-release, the number of diffs is _huge_ relative to the 1.5.2 tree. I'll put a tarball of my sys tree up later today for anyone who might want to look at it. What I've not been able to find was my code that set up the INQ command. It shouldn't be too hard to recreate however. --Chuck

23 years, 9 months

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Ebay 5360

by ceby2＠csc.com

Folks -- I made the ghastly mistake of bidding on an IBM 5360 ($25). The sale closes today, and it doesn't look like there'll be other bidders to get me off the hook. So I thought I do the seller a little favor and spread the publicity around for him, in case any of you have some unused warehouse space and were stumped for a way to fill it. I, of course don't. All you need do is outbid $25 on item 2004672608. ;->~ Seriously (or slightly more seriously) if I'm landed with this thing I'll probably want to make copies of all the disks and manual then donate it to a museum collection -- should any be interested. Or a private collector if their not. The real reason I bid on it was to ensure it's survival of course. I wasn't actually planning on testing the floor joists in my 1-bedroom apartment. As far as I can tell it's complete, with two printers and two tape drives. And it's located in Connecticut. If anyone else has a better idea for preserving it, or wants to lend me a hand (I'm in Massachussetts) please chime in. Thanks, Colin Eby Senior Consultant CSC Consulting

23 years, 9 months

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MicroVAX 4000/VLC

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Umm, IIRC, I just stuck it in. Yes, you're supposed to have done some hardware changes, but I thought I'd try anyway. ARCconsole reports it right, but I haven't done any real benchmark to see if it really is running at 233... I'll have to dig up the info. And maybe someone here can burn a new chip for me? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > ---------- > From: Megan > Reply To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:09 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: MicroVAX 4000/VLC > > > I have a 233 MHz CPU from a dead Multia in my AXPpci33 > > What did you have to do to get it working? I was under the impression > that using a faster processor required some board modifications... > > If it will simply work, I guess I need to locate a 233 Mhz CPU. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > >

23 years, 9 months

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RX02 / DSD440 problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 26, 19:00, Jerome Fine wrote: > I seem to remember someone saying that the DSD 440 reads block zero > of drive zero on power on, then times out and jumps to location zero > to start. That's how most 3rd-party RX controllers seem to work, in my experience. > Try typing in the MSCP bootstrap. Why? The RX02/DSD440 is a DY: device, not DU: > The standard RX02 bootstrap uses UNIT=0, so it may need to > be modified to use UNIT=1 for DY1:, however that stuff is not > accessible to me right now. Does anyone have the release > notes for RT-11? It may be there. I've had it online for a long time, at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/ODT/Listings/RXV21BootD I recently made a minor correction (almost all the DEC printed copies have several errors). It's a Unit 0 bootstrap, but changing the word at locations 001036 from 407 to 427 should make it work for Unit 1. At least, I think so; I used it recently and I think that's what I did. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

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DEC BC09J cable

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Alan Pearson <alan.pearson(a)cramer.com> wrote: > I'm looking for a DEC BC09J cable to hook up a VS3100 to a CD drive... That's the same cable as used with the DECstation 2100/3100. A couple DS3100s I hauled home had a different cable, p/n BC56H-03. This one is a few inches longer and the cable comes straight into the 50 pin Centronics connector as opposed to the BC09J which is right angle. HTH Mike

23 years, 9 months

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ebay: control data tape drive

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I came across this ebay item, its some sort of Control Data tape drive. > I'm just mentioning it in case someone in the Virginia area is interested. I see he's relisted it... I considered buying this last year when he ran it previously, but he's not interested in shipping it, and I don't have a Virginia connection likely to help out. :( -dq

23 years, 9 months

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ebay: control data tape drive

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

I came across this ebay item, its some sort of Control Data tape drive. I'm just mentioning it in case someone in the Virginia area is interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2005305942 -Lawrence LeMay

23 years, 9 months

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Reply to: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime, Twice in F orever)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: nerdware(a)ctgonline.org [mailto:nerdware@ctgonline.org] > I remember reading an early interview with Geddy and he was > talking about auditioning drummers after Rutsey left. He said > Peart came in, and while they were impressed with his > drumming abilities, they were also thinking, "Hey! This guy can READ!" I suppose that is kind of impressive these days, sadly... on the other hand, if he reads that much Rand, I would have been more disappointed in the quality of his books, than concerned with whether he could read. Personal opinion, of course. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 9 months

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Stanco della solita routine quotidiana??

by jessica＠hotmail.com

Skipped content of type multipart/related

23 years, 9 months

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Michael Sokolov Cooking: The Ultimate VAX

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey S. Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] > I vote you call this new breed of VAXen the SuperVAX. Start > out with the > SuperVAX 1000 and see where it takes you. Whatever the name, > I want one. Or perhaps you could call it something like "Extended VAX" --err, well, I suppose that one will still be in use for a couple of years... :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 9 months

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Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)]

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

My turn. Where did the saying "better living through chemistry!" come from? The answer will surprise you. Joe At 12:30 PM 2/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >I have it on the Easy Rider movie soundtrack album. Could look it up tonight >if you want. > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:00 PM >To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' >Subject: OT: Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)] > ><snip> > >Quick quiz! > >"Don't bogart that joint, my friend. Pass it over to me." > >Who wrote it, and what albumn? Really, I can't remember the answer! > >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 90581 >Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 >Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash >

23 years, 9 months

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Calling all borgs!!

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

Thanks all!, I have attached the list so far.. This is great! : ^ )

23 years, 9 months

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Reply to: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime, Twice in Forever)

by nerdware＠ctgonline.org

> For those who don't know, 2112 is a Sci-Fi type story song >Yes. They got the idea for it from an Ayn Rand book. Neil Peart got it from "Anthem." A lot of his lyrics are inspired by Rand..... I remember reading an early interview with Geddy and he was talking about auditioning drummers after Rutsey left. He said Peart came in, and while they were impressed with his drumming abilities, they were also thinking, "Hey! This guy can READ!" That little fact also blew away my one high school English teacher...I had just gotten into Rush at that point, a fact which just boggled the minds of the stoners in school because Paul, the science-club-president, ham-radio-operator, A/V nerd had more Rush albums than they did....anyway, I knew my one teacher would really get into Peart's lyrics. I lent her AFWTK and Hemispheres, and she took 'em home to listen. She said that while she didn't care for the music that much, she was really impressed by Peart's writing. Really threw her when I told her that the drummer wrote the lyrics.... One day, during class, one of the stoners had somehow thrown out a Rush lyric during a discussion. The teacher said, "Oh! That's from "A Farewell To Kings" from Rush, isn't it?" If I had only had my camera with me....the look on his face was timeless. Paul ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS: On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Ahh, you should've made it to their last show, the Test For Echo tour, > "An Evening With Rush". They played all 20 minutes of 2112, the first > time in about 20 years. And a lot of other classic Rush tunes as well. Well, first let me apologize for the off-topic post, but I simply *must* respond. Please forgive me. Rush is tied with Dream Theater (a Rush-influenced group) as my favorite band. I'm young enough to never have been at a Rush show, but I *will* be at at least one show on this upcoming tour, since it may be their last. Since it seems that there are some other Rush fans here, let me throw out this link: http://www.rushpetition.com/ That's an online petition to communicate fans' desire to hear some rarities in the set list. They have a list of songs that have not beel played live for at least a decade, and you get to vote for 5 of them. The final results will be submitted to Rush's record company when the new album is released. If you are a Rush fan, it is your _duty_ to go sign the petition now! > For those who don't know, 2112 is a Sci-Fi type story song Yes. They got the idea for it from an Ayn Rand book. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)subatomix.com

23 years, 9 months

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NIC Card for MV3100

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

Doc wrote: >On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Sleet, Edward B wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me if a network interface card exists for a MicroVax 3100? > > If my information is correct, the MV3100-90 is the same system board >as the VAX4000-100, and has headers for a QBus backplane. I _think_ >that all the higher models - m95, m96, etc. - have them. > I could be wrong. The uV3100-9x all have the connectors for Q-bus (and DSSI) but will not use them (AFAIK) until you issue the console command that convinces them that they are a VAX 4000-10x. Then you'll need to wire up the connectort to a Qbus expansion box. (The VAX 4000-10x case has a connector on the back that connects to the expansion cab via a suitable cable. Internally some sort of ribbon cable connects the connector on the case to the MLB). All these machines have an on-board ethernet anyway, so unless you need a second (or even thrid) ethernet, you really should use the built-in one. Antonio

23 years, 9 months

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Long distance HP haul completed!

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Bob, Glad you got home safely. I guess next time you'll bring a BIGGER truck ;-) SteveRob >From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Long distance HP haul completed! >Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:42:15 -0500 > >Is driving 3,220 miles for 3 HP minicomputers unreasonable? > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 9 months

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what the heck is THIS?

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004360621 Anyone know what this is? It looks like a test probe maybe, one of those things that they press against an IC under test and which brings out all the leads for probing? Or, what? Doesn't look like it has anything to do with disk drives.

23 years, 9 months

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OT:RE: Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)]

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

At 02:11 PM 2/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >DuPont advertising, 1939 to 1980's: >http://heritage.dupont.com/touchpoints/tp_1939/overview.shtml Close. Actually it was the theme of their exhibit in the 1934 World's Fair. That's when they first announced/exhibited Nylon. But in the '60s it took on an entirely different meaning! :-) Joe

23 years, 9 months

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Anyone have...

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On February 26, James Willing wrote: > ...a programmer that can do a dump from a MC68701S-1 microprocessor? I believe my Data I/O 2900 will do it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 9 months

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DSSI support for NetBSD: request for docs.

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

Gunther Schadow >I have the UDA50 manual (BTW: anyone have a UDA50?) > that I can copy for you. Been there, done that, did a maintenance ps too. http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm Now if whoever has that UDA50 programmers guide were to scan it and make it available ... Antonio

23 years, 9 months

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PDP-10 Emulators (was Re: Alpha AXP (was Re: MicroVAX 4000/VL C))

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> too bad, you're running TOPS-20. Certainly a fine operating system, I > heard several really nice things about it, but I don't have any personal > experience with it. Is it true there is an UNDELETE command that can be > used until you PURGE or log out? The KLH10 is an emulator, not real iron (and while the em is named KLH10, the proper name for the emulated machine is "KN10"). > You don't possibly have a machine running TOPS-10? - It would be great > fun to meet such a monitor again. I _loved_ that reply when you said > /M/P to FILDDT: "[patching the running monitor]" - try that with any > machine today! Dan does indeed have a KS10 (or two?), but I think he's still having trouble getting it properly operational. OTOH, he's had TOPS-10 up on the TS10 em before, and I thought Zane Healy was doing likewise. And I'll have one of the -10 ems up for my historical simulation of the IU Computing Network, but not for a year or so... > Etc., etc... - If I only had more time, I'd really need one of those > emulators! Once you get the emulator build done and the DEC tape images downloaded, it takes less than an hour to install TOPS-10 7.03... well, a little longer to get *all* the cusps and product set stuff loaded... -dq

23 years, 9 months

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PDP11 Redux, or Behind-The-Scenes Bull

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On February 22, Doc Shipley wrote: > And today, one enterprising soul, a long-standing list subscriber, > found MDR's website from my email address. He both emailed and called > my boss today trying to buy the machine out from under me. Oh shit...Asshole alert!! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

23 years, 9 months

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Michael Sokolov Cooking: The Ultimate VAX

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hello, for those of you who are not (or no longer :-) subscribed to the Quasijarus list, you still want to read this. This is Michael Sokolov as we all love him: Passionate and knowledgeable about VAXen, and just that. The project sounds kinda cool, if he delivers I'll want to get it. regards -Gunther Hi there, It's me again, your faithful 4.3BSD-Quasijarus maintainer. Sorry that I've been silent for a while... but guess what, I've got something cool, something that may raise your hair... So, what is it? Well, after whining and whining to myself about being deprived of the past 10 years worth of technological advances (NVAX, the last thing from DEC as far as classical VAXen go, came out in 1992), I've decided it's time to stop whining and start doing something about it. We've got to bite the bullet and design and build a new VAX that would use today's technology, be comparable in performance to today's CPUs, and still be a fully compliant VAX. Design the CPU, the system bus, the console and other support facilities, etc. and build it all on a sparkling shiny board. Since for the past 10 months I've worked for a company building single-board computers with today's technology (PowerPC CPUs, system bus at 133 MHz, memory SDRAM at system bus speed, I/O the fastest PCI chips they could find) and was involved in most phases of board design and bring-up, I know now what's involved in building such a beast and I've decided I'll give it a try. The major difference of course will be having to design the VAX CPU instead of having a ready-made PowerPC or MIPS or Sexium or whatever chip. Not having six to seven digit cash to build an ASIC, I'll have to settle for the CPU on an FPGA. As those are field-programmable, there are no big bucks to pay someone to fab it, and there's plenty of room for debugging and experimentation. I'll just have to take the VAX Architecture Reference Manual and implement it, in VHDL or Verilog or somesuch. Scary, I know. But what the heck, I'll give it a try. Part of designing a CPU is designing the bus coming out of it. This brings us to the next part of our VAX design: what should its system bus be? As you may remember from discussions on this list a few years ago and from my writings about VAX hardware on the Quasijarus WWW pages and elsewhere, in order to have a true VAX, one must have a real VAXist system bus. It has to follow all the VARM rules as to memory and cache coherency, VAX native memory and I/O address spaces (512 MB each usually), interlocks, interrupt messaging, transaction ordering, nice and orderly machine check exceptions when accessing a non- existent address, etc. So, what bus are we going to use? I believe that in order to be a true VAX, we have to natively support all traditional DEC buses and peripherals with the top-level bus meeting the above requirements. Having just PCI or somesuch would make a very poor man's VAX. Our new VAX should of course be top of the line: completely supercede all earlier VAXen and support everything that DEC ever supported. This my friends means XMI. That's what DEC's last top-of-the-line VAXen (6600 and 9000) had. XMI gives you a 14-slot backplane which you can further expand with an XMI-to-VAXBI adapter and a VAXBI-to-UNIBUS adapter, and between UNIBUS, BI, and XMI you've got the whole DEC universe covered. This plus how nicely these buses work together plus the closeness of this design to the original VAX pillars of 780 and 8600 makes me believe that XMI is the way to go. So, should we use XMI as our top-level system bus? Not necessarily. While architecturally beautiful, XMI by its age alone will be a performance bottleneck in our SuperVAX. I think even on the 6600 (NVAX-based, the last VAX >from DEC with XMI as its top bus) they were already feeling it squeeze, that's maybe why they went from 6600 to 7000 (Alpha bus, very ugly) so quickly. (The 7000's Alpha bus makes it so ugly because the software can't directly access XMI or any other I/O bus, just memory, as the Alpha bus doesn't support I/O transactions, just memory.) What we need then is our own top-level bus of new design with year 2002 performance characteristics with XMI and other buses (see below) attached to it. The top-level bus will have CPU(s) and memory on it. The memory should of course be modern SDRAM. To make this kosher by VAX standards this top-level bus will have to meet all VARM requirements with all downstream buses interfaced to it as proper VAX nexi. If it's done right, it'll be the same design as the last Ultimate VAX from DEC had. The last Ultimate VAX from DEC was the 9000, folks. We'll have basically the same design but on one board. Cool! I also mentioned having other buses besides XMI and its subordinates. I'm thinking about PCI (ideally 64-bit 66 MHz, the top) and VME. Yes, PCI is decidedly not a DEC bus and it's very substandard compared to real VAX buses like VAXBI or XMI, but I think we need to support it to be competitive and to be able to take advantage of all the devices that come in the form of PCI chips. Now support it doesn't mean make it our main bus. If it sits by the side, doesn't stand in the way of data flowing through real DEC buses, and its use is entirely optional, it should be OK I think. As for VME, while we should faithfully reproduce everything that DEC made that's holy and pure, we don't need to reproduce their screw-ups. In particular, their deliberate blocking of third parties doesn't need to be reproduced. There's nothing wrong with supporting an open standard multivendor bus. The last point applies not only to VME. It applies even more so to SCSI. DEC's stubborn refusal to support it except in low-end systems definitely doesn't need to be reproduced in our new VAX. DEC only supported SCSI on low-end BabyVAXen, but not on anything higher-end: not on Q-bus, not on BI, not on XMI. As there seems to be no place for SCSI on the XMI side of our new VAX, we can go for the obvious alternative: if we are going to have PCI in there, just stick your favorite PCI UltraSCSI chip on the board. So we are going to have our new fast system bus with XMI and PCI hanging off of it, and eventually VME too. So what should this system bus be? Well, I've been thinking about it for the past few days and I've come up with a design that I think is sound and I think I can implement. After working for 10 months with screaming fast PowerPCs, I've been spoiled by their 133 MHz system bus. I've been even more spoiled by some of the chips available for this bus. I've been particularly impressed by Galileo GT-64240 and GT-64260 system controllers for MIPS and PowerPC respectively. So far I've only worked with PowerPCs and GT-64260 and haven't looked at the 240 yet, but as I understand it the MIPS and PowerPC system buses are very similar and the 240 and the 260 are essentially the same chip with minor mods. These system controllers are not PeeCee stuff. They are specifically designed for high-end systems with heavy I/O requirements, which is exactly what we would want in our VAX. Each GT-642x0 system controller includes the CPU interface running at up to 133 MHz, an SDRAM controller running at full CPU bus speed, 2 64-bit PCI interfaces running at up to 66 MHz, 3 10/100 Mbps Ethernet ports, 2 high-speed serial ports running at up to I believe 55 Mbps (!), and support for all system glue logic one can think of: ROMs, random logic devices, I2C, you name it. All interfaces run simultaneously in parallel and are interconnected by a "pizza arbiter", a crossbar switch with a 64-bit data path running at 133 MHz. This is the kind of stuff I have in mind when I talk about using year 2002 technology. I believe the GT-642x0 is the most powerful chip of this kind available today. (The cost is a bit high by PeeCee standards but should be fine for a high-end SuperVAX: GT-64260A costs $170 IIRC.) After thinking about it for a while, I have come up with my VAX design based on either GT-64240 or GT-64260 (haven't yet decided which). It took some hard thinking, but I think I've got it right. The most challenging thing of course is to gerrymander the MIPS/PowerPC system bus into a VAX bus, i.e., make it meet all VARM requirements. OTOH, the benefits from using those chips are significant: using the same system bus used in today's fast CPUs would assure comparable performance for our VAX at least as far as the bus goes, the time to market is reduced as some important components (the SDRAM controller, the PCI interface, and some of the support logic) will be ready-made, the chip is among the best one can pick for this purpose, and we'll have the Ethernet and fast serial interfaces for free. To understand how I'm going to use the MIPS/PowerPC system bus as the VAX main bus and still call it a VAX, one needs to consider the board design. It'll have this system bus interconnecting the CPU, the GT-642x0, the XMI interface chip, and other stuff later. One nice thing about the GT-642x0 is that it's specifically designed to support being not the only system controller, but one of many. It doesn't mind seeing transactions on its interfaces that it doesn't understand and that are meant for someone else. As it turns out, the MIPS/ PowerPC system bus is not that alien to the VAX, it's basically a subset of what the VAX needs. Since it's a subset, it needs to be extended. As I'm going to implement the CPU and the XMI interface on FPGAs, I'll have the freedom to tweak it as I want. Of course the GT-642x0 won't understand my extensions, but it won't need to: we need strict VARM compliance when talking to XMI, but not necessarily to PCI, as PCI is alien to VAX anyway. Now the GT-642x0 will be the main memory controller, so it better be VARM-compliant as far as memory goes. At first I thought this was going to be a show-stopper, as I couldn't figure out how I would communicate the special bus transactions for the BBCCI, BBSSI, ADAWI, INSQHI, INSQTI, REMQHI, and REMQTI instructions. But then a solution struck me. It's hard to explain without going too much into the PowerPC cache coherency model, but basically the CPU can hoard a little chunk of memory (32- byte granularity) and not let anyone else touch it until it's done with whatever it wants to do with it. In my case the whatever will be implementing the above 7 VAX instructions as prescribed by VARM. Voila! (If you are reading this babbling about using a MIPS/PPC system bus in a VAX and wondering how is it different from VAX 7000 using an Alpha bus that I denounced so loudly, you're right, it isn't, except for one detail. That Alpha bus doesn't support transactions smaller than a full word (don't remember if that was 32 or 64 bits, but you get the idea), so if you wanted to dink an 8- bit or 16-bit register on an I/O bus, you would be out of luck. That's one of the main reasons they didn't support direct CPU access to XMI and other I/O on the 7000. The PowerPC system bus doesn't have this problem, it supports all transfer sizes, and the GT-642x0 chips move data of different sizes between their interfaces all the time.) Since we are going to have our own top-level bus with the CPU(s), memory, and bus adapters sitting above XMI, PCI, and VME, it'll need its own backplane of our own design to hold the CPUs, memory modules, and bus adapters. There are many possible designs, but here is the one I've chosen from considerations of ease of implementation, time to market, and cost, as well as some marketing considerations. The backplane will be active, and will have the GT-642x0 on it. The slots on it will be PCI, nexi, and SDRAM DIMMs. It will be mechanically compatible with an ATX motherboard, but past the same mechanics it'll have enough differences to assure anyone looking at it that it's not a PeeCee. Of the 7 slots allowed for by ATX mechanics, 3 will be PCI and 4 will be nexi. The nexus slot connectors will be of my own design. The first nexus slot will always have to have a CPU card in it, which will be the master CPU, and the other 3 nexus slots will support identical CPU cards (slave CPUs) and bus adapters such as XMI and VME. The active backplane will also provide most of the system support logic, including the console FEP (front end processor, a small cheap microprocessor which I haven't yet selected) and the console port. Each CPU card will have just the VAX CPU with minimum support logic on it, which will reduce the incremental cost of adding CPUs. The FPGA-based CPU will only implement the VAX architecture as a running processor, and will truly halt like a 780 rather than implement halt microcode. This will certainly make it cool in a VAX hacker's eyes and reduce the time to market by moving the halt complexity from the harder to design FPGA into the easy to write FEP software. The CPU FPGA will communicate halts and architectured console IPR accesses to the FEP via the Inter-IC bus (I2C) or a similar bus. The active backplane will also provide Ethernet (GT-based) and SCSI (PCI-based) interfaces. (The high-speed serial interfaces of the GT-642x0 may also be routed out to external 50-pin connectors of the type DEC has used on sync serial options.) Thus in the minimal configuration with only one CPU card and some SDRAM one will have a fully functional system. Since such a system will fit entirely in an ATX enclosure and offer ready PCI expansion, it can be used to introduce the VAX architecture and this high-end product into new markets not previously exposed to VAXen. We'll be able to build and sell these systems in any required quantity entirely from current parts, no dependence of exhaustible stockpiles of old DEC parts. OTOH, since when equipped with an XMI adapter the system will be a fully compliant VAX and will be highly compatible with top of the line systems from DEC, this system should be acceptable even to the most ardent DEC purist. In the future systems can be built in other form factors if ATX is unacceptable or if more than 4 nexus slots are needed. The backplane will still have to be active most probably, though, because such a high-speed bus cannot have more than a few slots, and if we want to offer something like the 14-slot XMI backplane for our new system bus, the only way I can think of to implement it is to have several independent bus segments each with no more than 4 slots and interconnect them with intelligent bridges. These bridges would be active and quite sophisticated. But that's for the future, I think for a start a single bus segment with 4 slots in the cheapest form factor (ATX) will be fine. Proper design of the system support logic on the active backplane will ensure that the memory and interrupt mappings are as close as possible to those of next of kin DEC systems. The GT-642x0 will play nicely with this as its memory map is completely programmable, and it'll have no problem with the physical address space being only 30 bits instead of 32 (VAX architecture limitation). That's what I have on my mind, folks. As you can see I've put a good deal of thought into it and I'm serious about it. The next step is to better explore FPGA technology to see if I can match or beat the NVAX in performance. On our side we have 10 more years of technological advances since the NVAX, but OTOH DEC had built the NVAX as a fully custom IC rather than an FPGA. We'll see. Now here comes the part where I'll need your help, folks. While I have everything I'll need to design the active backplane and the CPU card (for the CPU card I'll just need the VARM which I have and the backplane is all current technology, no DEC specs needed) and thus I think I'll be able to deliver the base system in the ATX box, in my mind to make the project worth doing and thus to maximise the chances of me actually doing it, we'll need an assurance that the XMI adapter would follow shortly. I am prepared to design the FPGA and the board, but it'll require the XMI spec. I know it conceptually which allowed me to come up with the conceptual design outlined here, but to actually build it I will of course need the full spec detailing each signal and all. So, to make this project worth doing and thus see to it that I actually do it, you folks with spare time on your hands may want to start looking into prying the XMI specs out of DECompaq. -- Michael Sokolov 786 E MISSION AVE APT F Programletarian Freedom Fighter ESCONDIDO CA 92025-2154 USA International Free Computing Task Force Phone: +1-760-480-4575 msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA) Let the Source be with you Programletarians of the world, unite! P.S. To the folks I've Cc'ed this to besides the Quasijarus list: your input could be extremely helpful to this project and other great projects being discussed on our list, and I would very much like to have you on the Quasijarus list. To subscribe send a message to quasijarus-request(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG. TIA.

23 years, 9 months

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Anyone have...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

...a programmer that can do a dump from a MC68701S-1 microprocessor? -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw

23 years, 9 months

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SMD disks to good home

by jwbirdsa＠picarefy.com

I have a pile of SMD disks, one Fujitsu Super Eagle and six (I think) Fujitsu Eagles, which are taking up space. They're all 19" rackmount units, most with rails, and since they weigh in at about 150 pounds each, I can't ship them. Some were in service with me five or six years ago, some I've never used; the condition of none of them is known for sure. I would like to see at least some of them go to a good home as opposed to going to the dump at the end of March, but one way or another they need to go. They're free for pickup in Federal Way, WA, which is between Seattle and Tacoma. I also have an assortment of SMD cables available. --James B.

23 years, 9 months

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MicroVAX 4000/VLC

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

> I have a 233 MHz CPU from a dead Multia in my AXPpci33 What did you have to do to get it working? I was under the impression that using a faster processor required some board modifications... If it will simply work, I guess I need to locate a 233 Mhz CPU. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

23 years, 9 months

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PDP-10 Emulators (was Re: Alpha AXP (was Re: MicroVAX 4000/VL

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> OTOH, he's had TOPS-10 up on the TS10 em before, and I thought Zane > Healy was doing likewise. And I'll have one of the -10 ems up for > my historical simulation of the IU Computing Network, but not for a > year or so... I've got a system running two copies of SIMH for TOPS-10 7.03 and TOPS-20 4.1. I've got another system running KLH10 for TOPS-20 7.0. I've found that those emulator/OS combo's are what work the best. SIMH supports 'virtual terminal lines' and 'printers', while KLH10 supports ethernet. > > Etc., etc... - If I only had more time, I'd really need one of those > > emulators! > > Once you get the emulator build done and the DEC tape images downloaded, > it takes less than an hour to install TOPS-10 7.03... well, a little > longer to get *all* the cusps and product set stuff loaded... Take a look at http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp10emu.html I've got links to prebuilt emulator installs. Off the top of my head I think they're all for TOPS-10. Zane

23 years, 9 months

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1101 Static RAM Chips Wanted for Mark-8

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I'm in search of 24 or more 1101 RAM chips so I can fully populate the memory board on the Mark-8 I'm building. Anybody have a stash of them? I've searched the web but have been unable to find any obsolete IC dealers who have them. Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator!

23 years, 9 months

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Santa Monica: pdp 11/23 system for trade

by elmo＠mminternet.com

Help me clean my apartment. I have an 11/23 system running RSX 11M in a large Trimm pedestal chassis. (Think world box - size of a two-drawer file cabinet). It has a working TK50, RD53(?), and RX50 floppies, and 4 DL ports. I can offer an extra ESDI controller if you're looking for more storage. Too big to ship, I will help you carry it down the stairs. Will trade for laptop(s) in good condition, or perhaps you can trade skilled labor (assist in my rooftop antenna construction / design / installation). Eliot

23 years, 9 months

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OT:RE: Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)]

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

DuPont advertising, 1939 to 1980's: http://heritage.dupont.com/touchpoints/tp_1939/overview.shtml -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:14 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)] My turn. Where did the saying "better living through chemistry!" come from? The answer will surprise you. Joe <snip>

23 years, 9 months

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Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)]

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

I have it on the Easy Rider movie soundtrack album. Could look it up tonight if you want. -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:00 PM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: OT: Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)] <snip> Quick quiz! "Don't bogart that joint, my friend. Pass it over to me." Who wrote it, and what albumn? Really, I can't remember the answer! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 9 months

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20,046 pages of scanned old docs online?

by skkkeliris＠hotmail.com

Hello. i need this book 6502 Assembly Language Subroutines (Leventhal) Can you tell me the link to download it , or how to get it? Can you upload it somewhere or send it as an attachement? Regards, S.K

23 years, 9 months

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OT: Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)]

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

At 01:59 PM 2/26/02 -0500, you wrote: >> From: Doc >> >> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: >> > > >> > > Ohhh, wowww, man. Geddy Lee, yeahhhh.... >> > > >> > > Doc >> > > >> > Doc? Hello? Sounds you're stoned man! And you didn't share either! >> >> Heh. I stayed that way from '74 till '89, but then I ran out. >> Permanently, it looks like. >> "No no no no, I don't smoke it no more; I'm tired of wakin' up on the >> floor!" >> >> Doc >> > Heh. Sounds like my buddy, when he was growing up in Vegas.... > >Quick quiz! > >"Don't bogart that joint, my friend. Pass it over to me." > >Who wrote it, and what albumn? Really, I can't remember the answer! I don't know who wrote it but it was on the Easy Rider soundtrack. I THINK The Byrds sang it there. Joe

23 years, 9 months

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OT: Stoned? [was: RE: Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime...)]

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Doc > > On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > > Ohhh, wowww, man. Geddy Lee, yeahhhh.... > > > > > > Doc > > > > > Doc? Hello? Sounds you're stoned man! And you didn't share either! > > Heh. I stayed that way from '74 till '89, but then I ran out. > Permanently, it looks like. > "No no no no, I don't smoke it no more; I'm tired of wakin' up on the > floor!" > > Doc > Heh. Sounds like my buddy, when he was growing up in Vegas.... Quick quiz! "Don't bogart that joint, my friend. Pass it over to me." Who wrote it, and what albumn? Really, I can't remember the answer! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 9 months

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OT: cleaning pots on my vintage audio amp

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 20, 14:01, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > >> > > Or you can call it "Isopropyl alcohol" or just "rubbing alcohol"! > >> > > (But you want the 90+% stuff, NOT the 70%) > >> > > >> > But I don't think either of those are official convention. > >> > >> In spite of not being "official convention" (and sometimes not even > >> CORRECT), when telling somebody to get something, it just might be useful > >> to them to know what it is called at the places that they buy it. > > > >Unfortunately the 'local' names are just that. Local. I've never see > >anything called 'rubbing alcohol' for sale in the UK. I have seen it > >labelled isopropanol or propan-2-ol. Since this is an international list, > >it would seem to make sense to use the official name and then to look it > >up in a local chemical catalogue if necessary. > > Although I agree with you totally, for many things there is *no* > international name. If you send anyone over to Wal-mart or K-mart for > isopropanol or propan-2-ol, they'll *never* find it. I've only ever seen > labeled is "rubbing alcohol" (which I'll admit is much too vague) or > "isopropyl alcohol" and the percentage (you can get 91% at Wal-mart, but > most places stock only the 70% AFAIK. (I'm looking at a bottle as I type) > Even under the ingredient listing (required by law in the US) it's > "isopropyl alcohol". "iso-propyl alcohol" is the "old" name for it; "iso-propanol" is a more modern version of the same name; the "systematic" name (used almost everywhere *by chemists*) is "propan-2-ol". In this particular case, "iso-propanol" and "propan-2-ol" give exactly the same information, since there are only three carbon atoms, so the hydroxyl group can be either in the middle (iso-propanol/propan-2-ol) or at an end (n-propanol/propan-1-ol). If there are more carbon atoms, there are more possibilities for branches and aatachment positions, so the "old" names are less informative. > Even "aluminum" is different, but I don't remember how different... You mean "aluminium" :-) Like sodium, potassium, uranium, ... ^ ^ ^ ^ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 9 months

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Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime, Twice in Forever)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> ---------- > From: Doc > > On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Ahh, you should've made it to their last show, the Test For Echo > > tour, "An Evening With Rush". They played all 20 minutes of 2112, the > first > > time in about 20 years. And a lot of other classic Rush tunes as well. > > For those who don't know, 2112 is a Sci-Fi type story song, well, > > more of a composition I think. Normally, in concert, they play only > about 5 > > minutes of it, since the opening act takes up some time in the night. > This > > last tour, however, there was no opening act... Freeing up another 1 1/2 > > hours for Rush... > > Ohhh, wowww, man. Geddy Lee, yeahhhh.... > > Doc > Doc? Hello? Sounds you're stoned man! And you didn't share either! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 9 months

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A Jolly Good Find!

by jss＠subatomix.com

Well, folks, I'm a happy camper today. In a nice contrast against recent reports of list members screwing over other list members, I have some good news. Today, I met up with another list member in the mid-south USA. We had a fund day hopping around a scrapyard, and each of use went home with some cool gear. We found all sorts of goodies: remains of some Interdata minis, a DG Nova 3, a MicroVAX II, TS05 tape drive, piles of RA8x and other drives, a PDP-11/34, several VAX 4000-400s, some 8-bit stuff, and surely much more. The main thing I ended up carrying away, though, due to my schedule and the lack of space in my truck bed for anything else, was a PDP-11/70 carcass. I say 'carcass', because the scrappers had already yanked the cards out of all the cages and because there were a few other things missing. However, I've been lusting for a /70, and finding what I did put me a good ways along towards having a complete system. Cost: $20 for two H960 racks. This /70 is disguised as a DECdatasystem 570. I've got some questions about that, but I'll put them in another thread. The list member and his party were extremely nice. To save me the trouble of driving to a nearby ATM to get cash, a member of the party loaned me the dough. I was also treated to lunch at a nearby restaurant after leaving the scrapyard. Thanks for the hospitality, guys! So now I'm driving around with this PDP-11/70 in my truck. For a bit of fun, I showed it to a girl from work, being the evil bastard that I am. Much to my surprise, she seemed to actually be *interested* in the machine. No running away or screaming occurred. I'll hopefully be going back to this scrapyard in a few weeks to get some of the things I left behind this time. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)subatomix.com

23 years, 9 months

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Magnetic media and mold cleanup

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Jerome Fine replies: > > "donor" diskette? Are we now harvesting computer parts? I never had good luck cleaning the plastic shell of a 3.5 inch diskette; most of them have a thin liner materials inside, a type of plasticized frabric, that would disintegrate. So you want to use a blank, new, or otherwise unused floppy from which you remove the media and toss it. You insert the cleaned media into that plastic diskette shell. This is a very trivial operation, unless you're challenged in the hand/eye coordination department... > The person I am doing the recovery for may already have > enough of the files. I will see how much further I should go. > > > > I have one floppy that has over 100 error blocks (can't be read) > > > out of 988. Others have just a few. Is it possible to only spot clean > > > the ones with a few errors without removing the jacket? > > Dunno- let us know! > > Likewise for the answer above. Ok, again, perhaps we're having a communication problem. I have never tried anything other than what I described. Remove the messed-up media from its original shell and put it in a clean one. Clean the whole thing. This is what I've done, and your suggestion of partial cleaning has never occurred to me. And on reflection, I can't see any purpose in it. Unless you're reading into this some difficulty that isn't there. > > > Will Formula 409 work with floppy media? Where can it be purchased? > > Oh, it's a common household cleaner here in the U.S... a > > comparable cleaner is Fantastik. > > We have Fantastik here in Canada. I am in Toronto. Windex > is also a grease dissolving fluid and is used for glass. How > might that do? I would not make a recommendation regarding something I've not only never tried, but never even considered trying. Sorry! > >Joe wrote: > >If you just want to be able to read it long enough to recover it's data > >then don't put it back in a jacket! Just put the bare disk into the drive > >and copy it. I know several people that have successfully done this with 5 > >1/4" disk. However if your dirve has a spring loaded ejector, you may need > >to open up the housing and push the ejector back by hand. > > I will try that also if I go that far. for 5.25 inch floppies, I've done that too, but even still, it's easier to use a donor sleeve than trying to get naked media into the drive IMHO, although YYMV, etc. -dq

23 years, 9 months

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DEC BC09J cable

by alan.pearson＠cramer.com

I'm looking for a DEC BC09J cable to hook up a VS3100 to a CD drive... can anyone point me to a likely source in the UK? Failing that, any hints about making one up? I'm not sure about one of the parts that I would need - from what I've heard the 68-pin connector is a "non-standard" DEC part? Sounds like the other end is just a 50-pin centronics-style job so I guess getting one of those won't be a problem. TIA Al

23 years, 9 months

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Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime, Twice in Forever)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Doc > > 2112 was the only album of theirs I really cared for, taken as a > whole, but I'd break hell _and_ the bank to get to one of their shows. > Anytime, amywhere. > The last time I saw them was in Lubbock in '92?, the tour with the 30' > bunny-rabbits on stage. The 5'2" teenybopper next to me, a total > stranger, spent the entire show standing tippy-toe on my motorcycle > helmet. One of the best rock shows I've seen since Black Oak Arkansas > broke up. > > Doc > --- Ahh, you should've made it to their last show, the Test For Echo tour, "An Evening With Rush". They played all 20 minutes of 2112, the first time in about 20 years. And a lot of other classic Rush tunes as well. For those who don't know, 2112 is a Sci-Fi type story song, well, more of a composition I think. Normally, in concert, they play only about 5 minutes of it, since the opening act takes up some time in the night. This last tour, however, there was no opening act... Freeing up another 1 1/2 hours for Rush... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 9 months

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NIC Card for MV3100

by SleetEB＠corning.com

Can anyone tell me if a network interface card exists for a MicroVax 3100? Ed Sleet Systems Analyst Tech. Corning Incorporated Harrodsburg, Ky 859-734-3341 x345 Fax: 734-5103 email: sleeteb(a)corning.com

23 years, 9 months

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Magnetic media and mold cleanup

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > For floppies, I just break 'em open any way I can, > > and then use bare, clean hands with dish detergent. > > Let dry on a lint-free rag and you're through. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I am trying to recover some files from an DEC RX02 (8" SSDD) > floppy. After you clean the media, how do you put it back into > the drive? Using a brand-new donor diskette, which gets the same Xacto- knife treatment, I put the cleaned media in the new shell, and with one or two carefully-placed drops of cyanoacrylate, you have a reconstructed floppy. > I have one floppy that has over 100 error blocks (can't be read) > out of 988. Others have just a few. Is it possible to only spot clean > the ones with a few errors without removing the jacket? Dunno- let us know! > Will Formula 409 work with floppy media? Where > can it be purchased? Oh, it's a common household cleaner here in the U.S... a comparable cleaner is Fantastik. -dq

23 years, 9 months

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Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime, Twice in Forever)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> ---------- > From: Dave McGuire > > On February 25, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > 'Rush' is for up-tempo rock, Great programming music. > > "Power Windows" is a good album to start with. > > Their lyrics are written by the drummer, if that's any > > indication. > > Ahh yes, Rush is my all-time favorite band. Wonderful stuff! > > -Dave > > -- > Ah-ha! So Dave does have interest in things other than wondering if the girl is cute! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 9 months

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Rush! ( was: RE: Once in a Lifetime, Twice in Forever)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> ---------- > From: Cameron Kaiser > > > Hmmm... Being quite the Rush fan (waiting for them to finish the > > albumn, and come around on tour!), I have to politely disagree with the > > Power Windows recommendation. My suggestion is to buy the Chronicles 2 > CD > > set. It's probably on tape too, maybe even vinyl! You should be able to > find > > it used. It covers Rush's first 20 years, and the style changes they've > went > > through. > > I actually prefer the Retrospective '74-'80 compilation CD. I think this > covers all the classics in a smaller package. > Retrospective? Hmm, sounds kinda familiar. I'll have to go down to Cutler's and find it... > Myself the album I particularly enjoyed was Signals, but even more so than > that was what I think was the peak of their art ... Moving Pictures. > Signals, yes that is some good music. Moving Pictures? Yes that was definitely a high point. Then sadly it started to slide a little after that, then picked back up around Counterparts... Has anyone else heard the Working Man CD, a tribute to Rush? Some pretty good versions of classic Rush tunes... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 9 months

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MicroVAX 4000/VLC

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Megan > > > > I've sort of been wondering, since we're on AXP anyway, is anybody at > > all still running Tru64 or NT on Alpha? > > Everyone I know who owns AXP runs either *BSD or Linux or OpenVMS, > > including me. NetBSD flat screams on the LX164. > > I have a PWS500a with 3x4Gb disks ... two are dedicated to Linux and > one is Tru64... I can boot whichever I want whenever. > > My other alpha is an AXPpci33 166Mhz CPU overclocked to 200Mhz, rock > solid and running Linux (working on getting RHL7.2 on it to do some > testing) > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > I have a 233 MHz CPU from a dead Multia in my AXPpci33 (WinNT4-SP6a) box. 8-) Just gotta find a way to get Win2K running on it... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 9 months

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MicroVAX 4000/VLC

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Doc > > On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > Did the guy doing the OpenVMS port to the AXPpci133 ever get it working > > enough to use? > > I've sort of been wondering, since we're on AXP anyway, is anybody at > all still running Tru64 or NT on Alpha? > Everyone I know who owns AXP runs either *BSD or Linux or OpenVMS, > including me. NetBSD flat screams on the LX164. > > Doc > Well, here at Yale University Press, we still have NT4 on an Alpha Server. Runs pretty good, but since it's the PDC, Boss won't let me bump it up to Win2K/Alpha-2128... Bummer... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 9 months

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Magnetic media and mold cleanup

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

At 08:46 AM 2/26/02 -0500, you wrote: >> > For floppies, I just break 'em open any way I can, >> > and then use bare, clean hands with dish detergent. >> > Let dry on a lint-free rag and you're through. >> >> Jerome Fine replies: >> >> I am trying to recover some files from an DEC RX02 (8" SSDD) >> floppy. After you clean the media, how do you put it back into >> the drive? If you just want to be able to read it long enough to recover it's data then don't put it back in a jacket! Just put the bare disk into the drive and copy it. I know several people that have successfully done this with 5 1/4" disk. However if your dirve has a spring loaded ejector, you may need to open up the housing and push the ejector back by hand. > >> Will Formula 409 work with floppy media? Where >> can it be purchased? Umm. you're not in the US are you? If you were you'd know what that stuff is. Anyway it's just a spray-on general purpose cleaner that you can buy in the grocery stores. Joe

23 years, 9 months

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