- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mhstein＠canada.com

Sounds like a worthwhile project. Can't tell you why they used the 6520, can only speculate, same as you, that it's intended to sit on the 6500 bus while the DL1416s are a little more generic and might not interface directly without some additional logic & decoding anyway and using up more address space to boot. Also, since they brought a number of signals out to the display board that were not used, I suppose they might have intended to provide maximum flexibility; I'd think that no matter what signals & timing a display might require, you can generate it with the PIA and the wiring would be there, while you might not have what you need available on the bus without some extra glue anyway. BTW, I've used 6821s & 6520s interchangeably as well without problems. Not sure what you're looking for; the E & F ROMS are very well documented in the separate monitor manual which is on R Cini's site AFAIK (and in your care package waiting to go out), and if you wanted machine-readable source, the AIM itself should easily be able to disassemble the ROMs & send the source out on the serial port for capture. I've done some hacking of the monitor; my main accomplishment was to reverse & turn the printing upside down to allow mounting the board vertically with the tape feeding down, some graphic stuff, and trivial stuff like autostarting the user program, etc. I wouldn't think that the software to drive an LCD display would be very difficult; as I recall, there are hooks and vectors in place for user I/O. Of course even as it is, using the TTY switch the display is echoed out the serial port, but cursor movement codes might be incompatible with an ASCII Serial display. And I did find some extra DL1416s, although that won't help you with the unit that doesn't have a display board mike -------------Original Message-------------- Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:01:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> Subject: AIM-65 displays I am evaluating building a replacement display for the AIM-65 that does not use the DL1416. I have several modern options - a 20x1 LCD is cheap enough, as are more modern 4-char ASCII LED displays. The interface is somewhat trivial - the connector on the AIM-65 mainboard has enough signals to talk to a 6520 PIA (since that's what is on the normal display board to begin with). There are couple of angles to pursue... I have successfully tested a Motorola 6821 in place of the Rockwell 6520 in a real AIM-65. Since I have a few 6520s and many 6821s, that's a win. Either way, it's trivial to hang a display off of the 6502 bus without a PIA in the way. I'm curious if anyone knows why they bothered to put a 6520 on the display card? Did they want to keep the bus loading to a small, known quantity? If so, then I'll consider that any ASCII LED solution I come up with needs to have appropriate signal conditioning. I can't see how a modern LCD display would load the bus any worse than a 6520, so it might be worth the direct approach. So... the hardware is no big deal. The software, though, could be lots more work. I have real ROMs and ROM images. Are there any sources to the AIM-65 ROMs that are in a state to be compiled back into working, matching binaries? If I'm going to change the nature of the display, the code will have to follow. If the code is changing, then there's no reason I can't experiment with a multi-line display - I have a 20x4 VCD and a 20X4 LCD display already in hand. I think I can locate a 40x2 in my junk box, but at first, I'll probably ignore the right half and if I used it, treat it like a 20x2. Is there anyone out there who has done any real AIM-65 hacking? I can start from zero if I have to, but if there's any preexisting work out there, I'd like to see about starting ahead of zero. - -ethan

24 years, 3 months

2
1
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Indigos and such (Was Re: IRIX)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner [mailto:spc@conman.org] > I used a Personal Iris 4D 35 at school. It came with IRIX > 3.3.2 which > used NeWS (Network Window System) for the GUI which was quite I didn't know IRIX ever used it. That's interesting. > fast (despite > being based on PostScript) and easily extensible, but that Despite being based on Postscript? :) Postscript must be easily more efficient than the X11 protocol ;) NeWS was (is) also supported under SunOS 4. For a while, the server was actually merged with the X11 server in a program called XNeWS. You could run the apps side-by-side. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

1
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Indigos and such (Was Re: IRIX)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jason McBrien [mailto:jbmcb@hotmail.com] > Are Personal Irises good for anything? I've got two, a 25 > and a 35 and > they seem to work but I don't have a monitor or keyboard for Good for running IRIX 4.x or 5.x. They have no audio without a special option, possibly, so you'll want to check the configurations out. Also, as with other SGI systems, the graphics boards can make a big diference. Make sure they have all the plastic "skin," or they'll have cooling problems. I think the monitor and keyboard are the same as Indigo, but I'm not certain. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

2
1
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Fluke 9010 Micro-System Troubleshooter ??

by troy.haag＠baesystems.com

Does anyone know where I could pick up/buy one of these pieces of test equipment?

24 years, 3 months

5
4
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Anyone Care About RT-11

by cdl＠proxima.ucsd.edu

> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:46:25 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Anyone Care About RT-11 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > In-Reply-To: <3CC7778C.D5B157B3(a)compsys.to> > > > --- "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinepw4z(a)compsys.to> wrote: > > ...I also acquired some RK05 packs with old RT-11 distributions that I > > hope to make available as soon as I can find a controller for a Qbus > > or someone with both a working RK05 and something more > > recent such as an RL02. From the RL02, the final step is to > > make copies available via a CD. > > I have an RKV11D, numerous Qbus boxes and processors (this one came > attached to an 11/03, but I have lots of KDF11 stuff and one KDJ11 > that I have yet to power on (it has a BA213 handle which I haven't > removed yet, and it does not fit into a BA11N or BA23 as-is). I > also have RLV11s and RLV12s and RL02 drives in close enough proximity > to be useful. I haven't fired up the RK05 in several years, so I'm not > sure about the state of the rubber parts, etc., but it's all accessible > and somewhat easy to reassemble. It worked the last time I used it. > > I presume the RK11D does, but I wasn't sure how interchangable they > were fron a driver standpoint (Unibus and Qbus drivers can have issues > with mapping registers being handled differently, etc. Assumptions of > intercompatibility are unwise; we had completely different drivers for > our Unibus and Qbus products back in the old days). The RKV11D is really an RK11D with a different bus interface. Sort of a built-in Qniverter. Unfortunately the designers skimped on the extended address bits, so the RKV11 is 16-bit address space. I think that hardware hacks to add two address bits to make the RKV11 compatible with the RK!1 have been published, but I don't remember where. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

24 years, 3 months

5
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M0006

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>Why whould it have been left behind in my 11/750 though? Shouldn't it >have been taken when the contract ended? They should have collected it when the machine came off maintenance. Someone probably forgot. Not too uncommon towards the end. Antonio

24 years, 3 months

4
3
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Tape Crimper for 7/9-Track Magtape

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

One of these with the Digital label is going for ten bucks on E-Pay, with a thirty-buck buy-it-now and a ten buck S&H. Too high, but these are pretty obscure and getting moreso. Anyone got a pile of them? -dq

24 years, 3 months

1
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Googling and "egg-sucking" (was Re: "Toy" computers...)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > It gets a lot of raised eyebrows at my current orkplace, but then > Is this related to the Gollum phrasing? Read the alt.sysadmin.recovery FAQ. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

1
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AIM-65 monitor sources now available

by hansp＠aconit.org

Following an earlier thread on AIM-65, I would like to announce the availablility at www.aconit.org/hbp/AMI-65 of source files which assemble to the AIM-65 ROM monitor. The sources generally follow the PDF scans also on that page execpt in a couple of instances where source code changes were necessitated by bugs in the assembler. Hopefully I will fix the assembler soon and the original sources will then assemble clean. Also included on that page is a 6502 assembler (C source and DOS executable) slightly modified from a version picked off the net. -- hbp

24 years, 3 months

2
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M0006

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>On closer inspection, the VAX 11/750 board that I have marked "Property > of DEC, Not For Sale" is an M0006 - a Remote Diagnosis board. What can > you people tell me about it? This was used by DEC to dial in to the computer over a telephone line and manage it as though someone were typing at the console. It used an unpublished protocol between the kit at DEC's end ad the box at your end. Technically the box still belongs to DEC ... or maybe COMPAQ ... or soon HP. The support engineer at DEC's end could do whatever he liked to your machine, but everyhting he did was recorded by the support centre's systems. Antonio

24 years, 3 months

4
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Googling and "egg-sucking" (was Re: "Toy" computers...)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > --- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote: > > > > I was 35 when I found that the entire English-speaking > > > world doesn't "put stuff up" (put stuff away). > > > > I don't think we "put stuff up" (except for curtains, wallpaper and > > posters ;-), but here, we talk about cars and dishes that "need washed" > > (as opposed to "needs wash*ing*" or "needs *to be* washed"). > > What really drives my (Massachusetts-born) Spousal Equivalent up the > wall is when I'm [about to, going to] "fixing to" do something. Oh, we have a great one around here- "take and leave", as in "take and leave your car here, and we'll fix it". It's likely related to the usage as in "he's taken to drinking", which around here becomes "he's took to drinkun". A drinking buddy who was a mechanic would flame on when he'd hear that phrase. "Fair to middlin'" is my usual response to the casual how-are-you. It gets a lot of raised eyebrows at my current orkplace, but then we have many transplants there, and I'm local. -dq

24 years, 3 months

4
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"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > They don't pay those costly License fees and support contracts > out of ignorance. todays mainframes are exteamly muscular, > having taken advantage of the same technical advancements Indeed. I would probably buy one regardless of the cost that the power bill would cause me. :) > Well, i had assumed most would know that a box that typically > served 5000 seats or more was powerfull even as most might > not know what it is that really sets these things apart. That's exactly where the misunderstanding came in, I think. It's taken as obvious, for the most part, but your statement that the entire campus full of hardware would be emulated on a single peesee seemed to say differently. At any rate, it makes much more sense now. > Channel I/O for example, translating to terms and concepts > more familiar to those without OPER console time, imagine a > "PC" where every orifice was pumped by its own dedicated > DMA controller, where you can have 65535 of these devices. > and fill em all up with no load on the CPU. Not having much time on mainframe systems, myself, I still imagined something like this, and you can pretty much infer it from talk of the things. > Remember when the mickysoft press release parroting nattering > nabob computer press was declaring the death of the mainframe ? They're not still doing it? That surprises me. > and very humorous events like when the idiot press would read a > product release about NT being ported to an FSIOP card, and run > to print "NT Ported to the mainframe ! " I would like to see that, actually -- the article, I mean. VM/NT -- Heh. I wonder what the "error number" is for all of the NT IOPs in the machine simultaneously jumbling up their RAM. > A FSIOP card, File Server I/O Processor, is a PC on a card that > plugs into the mainframe so that it can share mainframe DASD > (disk) or have a faster channel for I/O to PC based middleware, > it certainly isn't NT running on the mainframe in the manner > the hapless readers of these sorry articles was led to believe. I suppose such a product would be good if you need it. It could do better than to run NT. Maybe they should "port CP/M" to the mainframe. > As for CPU power, PC's are certainly as fast per CPU in a general > sense as a mainframe, but without the I/O capacity could never > hope to replace a mainframe anytime soon. I don't know exact numbers, but honestly, the CPU in a modern peesee isn't the weak spot at all. Generally there's some kind of bottleneck (or five) that needs repaired in the design. > The PC running something decent does rival the power of a > mainframe or a supercomputer of yesterday however, I wouldn't doubt that it might compare for certain (probably single-user) non-io-bound applications. I'm not sure I can make that conclusion for a supercomputer at all. When is "yesterday" in this context? :) > utter garbage that at last time i checked w2k needed 64megs > of ram for the installer to run ? how absurd ! Actually, I'd have expected it to need more than that. > Compare with the size of bsd/linux/unix that will still run on > a machine with 4megs or compare with a mainframe nucleus > and you see that they on the other hand, have stayed small > tight and fast. and assembler is still very mainstream > on the mainframe where thruput of massive loads is still > the focus. Your comment about mainframes having "stayed small" is oddly amusing, but perhaps it's because I got no sleep yesterday. > mips or so emulating 360/70/90 instructions is testament > that the lowly PC has become very muscular in its own right. Indeed. I'm sure there are some tasks to which a peesee is well suited, but the problem is -- aside from the common operating environment -- the baggage in the design, still hanging around from the beginning. (probably not too well-thought-out back then ;) They probably should have done something ground-up by now to take advantage of newer cores, bus technology, etc. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

2
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R.I.P. for D.I.Y.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Jos Dreesen <jos.mar(a)bluewin.ch> >Industrial prototyping, which is what you do, is NOT hobbyist electronics. >I still stand by my opinion that handling the modern devices is beyond hobbyist >means. Ok, so you say. I just got done building two 50mhz frequency counters using SMT parts. The board is 1.8x2.1 inches and the display is 4 digit module with .375" 7 segment leds. The assembly includes 6 transistors (SOT) and a 74HC4017 (SMT) plus the Amtel (20pin dip) micro and associated chip resistors, caps and diodes. The resistors were the large 1206 (.11x.06") parts. There were a total of 5 through hole parts if you count the crystal and display. With a low power magnifier, standard weller 3/64" tip, .022 silver bearing solder, and a pair of #3 tweezers it went together quite fast. The last time I built an equivelent frequency counter it was 4 74192, 2x74273, 4x7447, 4x man3a leds, 2x74390, 2x 7400 plus all the caps, resistors and transistors and if didn't fit on a 2x2" board or only draw 60mA! At that time (1984) that cost me nearly 40$ in chips alone and I had to make the board. If anything, for those willing to adapt I'd say there are possibilities available now that never were. Lets face it, back in say '84 the thought of using a micro for a trivial task was sorta over the top, they weren't all that cheap or all that flexible. Now with basic stamps, PICs, amtel and the like a really good selection of flash rom parts at attractive prices and fast enough to do serious tasks or cheap enough to do dumb thing like PC keyboard to serial or parallel ascii. One of the things going on in the ham (amateur radio) community is packing PICs, DDS and a simple transceiver in an altoids tin (3.5x.75x2.25"). Oh and people still build boat anchors too. Allison

24 years, 3 months

5
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YangTech Electric VIP Model PC800

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Anyone seen one of these buggers before? It's a Yangtech Electric Co. Ltd. VIP Model PC800 desktop computer. Made in Taiwan. Looks like a 8088 or 80286 Intel CPU, but I can't seem to find chips with significant marks. Has one 20MB MFM HD on it, a 5.25 and a 3.5 floppy. Durn thing doesn't boot, and I can't find docs or anything on it. Any information is handy...likely it's not a significant find, but I'm intrigued nonetheless. Thanks, Tarsi 210

24 years, 3 months

1
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bubble bags

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Well, I went and bought a ton of those pink anti-static bubble bags so I can properly store my spare DEC boards. If anyone wants to buy a bunch, just let me know. I'll have to go dig up the sales slip and figure out a cost. They just barely fit a hex DEC board, and thus they easily fit a Quad board. 10" X 15.5" plus a 1.5" sealable lip. Though personally I dont bother sealing the bags. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

24 years, 3 months

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"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by rmoyers＠nop.org

On Saturday 27 April 2002 16:28, you wrote: > > Today that campus worth of hardware is emulated in the hercules > > s360/370/390/ zSeries emulator http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules > > running on a PC running linux or winbloZ > > > > OS, DOS, MVS, VM ... running on your pc, serves x3270 > > terms over the network etc etc. > > Ow! You're killing me! Actually, its sort of unexpected that you havent been pointed to this project or found this on your own. Its certainly a less cost option than a P370/390 card These guys for example have a turnkey cdrom image where you can go from the cd burner to a TSO login in only a few minutes. A real box can total flood a bundle of gigabit fiber the diameter of your right leg, its the I/O that sets these monsters apart really, their CPUs are no slouch, but not any faster than a common modern PC chip. Course there is their memory scrubing, the ability to hotspare memory modules on the fly, redundancy that can even deal with failed cache and buss lines. After reading about all the bother they go to to make these things survive failures and glitches, it brings to mind a senario where you wonder how many .45 cal pistol slugs the machine could absorb before the failure handler could no longer cope. There is a paper that explains the systems and schemes that go into the machines hardware fault tolerance that would leave the first time readers jaw agape, but i cant dig up the url at present. The emulator is still a very worthwhile project to look at however, and despite me using it first as a brickbat its rather cool and usefull for doing real work. (Development at home etc) Raymond -------------------------------------------------------

24 years, 3 months

7
8
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IBM AT power supply case/cooling question

by mythtech＠mac.com

>If you're at all >worried about EMI, it might be reassuring to put some ferrous metal screen, >the sort used to repair, or scavenged from, OLD screen doors, not the new >ones, over the PSU's larger openings. Does the metal screen material you can buy at Home Depot or the likes work? I think it is made of Aluminum, but I've never really checked (as I find the nylon screen easier to work with, so that is what I have always bought when rescreening windows or doors) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 3 months

2
1
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Starting point

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > There was one big advantage to starting from a home computer rather than > just a CPU chip. You had a 'base system' that included enough software to > PEEK/POKE bytes to your homebrew add-on for testing. That alone made life > a lot easier when you wwre starting out. Tony! This is exactly the point I was making a few months ago about the ZX81. At that time, you said you'd prefer to start with a Z80 and build up >from there, while I suggested that the ZX81 was a better starting point for a homebrew system since the BASIC and video were built-in. Care to clarify? Glen 0/0

24 years, 3 months

3
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Googling and "egg-sucking" (was Re: "Toy" computers...)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> --- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > Dude. > > > > Fire up your favorite Open Source browser. Go to http://www.google.com > > > > Do a search for this (quotation marks included): > > > > "Teach Grandpa to suck eggs" > > > BTW Google doesn't find the quoted string... > I got one hit with this... "teaching grandpa to suck eggs" > > And a bunch more by using the exact phraseology I heard growing up... > > "teach your grandma to suck eggs" > > With Google, spelling (and precise word selection) counts. > > > Argh. > > Once again, what I thought was a universal expression turns out to be > > a Texasism. > > I would count it as an American Colloquialism, but I don't think of the > phrase as uniquely Texan. Today, we might get more mileage out of this with a slight retooling: "You don't teach Gollem to suck eggses" ;)

24 years, 3 months

2
1
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R.I.P. for D.I.Y."

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> OK, but these are not the kind of devices I was refering to. > I have seen the immense effort that goes into prototyping GSM phones. That is > which lead to my opinion that such development is beyond any hobbiest means. I'm not sure I understand this. Are the GSM prototypes with which you are familiar, FINISHED prototypes, i.e. same size, circuits, etc, as the final product? If so, I'd understand the difficulty, but that is a form of prototyping that I'm only familiar with through the efforts of non-technical people to get involved in the hi-tech field. I guess it gets done that way a lot, and this is likely the source of the devices we swear at. Usually, the prototypes I've developed, are what we refer to as level-1 prototypes. They demonstrate the basic concept as being workable. At level-2. you bring in accountants and marketing people to work with the engineers to see if the device can be produced in a cost-effevtive manner, wherein the beanheads determine that they'll actually be able to make a profit >from the manufacture and sale of the item. Many otherwise promising designs die here because the engineer won't let the beancounter substitute that switch that will break at the device's half-life, or because the engineer won't let the marketing guy make the device purple and yellow. Good for the bloody engineer, too... -dq

24 years, 3 months

3
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CP/M-86

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > I've been playing around with cp/m-86, and was wondering if > anyone knew if > > a multiuser (like MP/M) version was available somewhere? > My next step is > > to try making it work under Dosemu on Linux if I cant... > Have you looked at "Concurrent CP/M-86"? "Concurrent DOS" in later versions, right? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

2
1
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M0006

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>Antonio, you spoilsport :-P > I was going to ask Alex for his phone number! So do you have the CSC-end of the kit that you will need to do that? I'm assuming that since they want to all the trouble of producing something marginally secure, the customer end of the secure connection cannot be used to dial out to some other customer end (otherwise it would not have been *that* secure). If you *do* have the CSC-end of the kit I'm seriously impressed :-) Although until Alex fixes his +2.5V regulator, there's not much you can do ! Antonio >

24 years, 3 months

3
2
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Commodore PC-20-III

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Well, I'm now the (proud?) owner of a Commodore PC-20-III. Ironically, this is a Commodore I know little about although it is a more or less vanilla PC clone, but there are some weird things about it. First, there's a composite video out on it. What kind of graphics did these have in them? I haven't cracked the case yet, but there's also apparently a video card in one of the slots (with six DIP switches? used for what?) and a two-port card with two DB-15s on it that I can't immediately identify. Anyone out there own one of these and can tell me a little about it? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If at first you don't succeed, don't go skydiving. -------------------------

24 years, 3 months

6
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Apple II Unidisk 3.5/LIRON card

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all (except Dick :-) ), I'm having a problem with an Apple IIe Platinum, and I hope you can help. I recently acquired a LIRON 3.5" floppy controller card, and was looking forward to using 3.5" disks on my AIIe. After some reading, it seemed that the LIRON card would only work with a Unidisk 3.5" (model number starts with "A2M"), and NOT with a 3.5" drive from, say, a IIgs (model number starts with "A9M"). So, of course, I went and found a Unidisk 3.5" drive... The combination doesn't work, *even with every other card pulled*, so here are my questions: - Will the LIRON card work with the Unidisk 3.5" drive? My reading of several FAQs says "yes", but maybe I misread something... - Does anyone have docs for either the drive, or the card? There are no switches or jumpers, and the installation seems obvious, but who knows, maybe I missed something.... - Can you boot from the 3.5" drive? Or is it only for storage, and you can only boot with 5.25" drives? Thanks for any help! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

24 years, 3 months

3
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"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Allison [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net] > It has been done. At one time you could get "cp/m processor" > cards for VAX, > PDP-11 and several other machines. Most had several Z80s for multiple > users. Not exactly "mainframe," but do they come in QBus modules? :) That would make one hell of a CP/M machine. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

1
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QBUS VAX and M7941 under VMS - info needed!

by dave＠naffnet.org.uk

Hi all, I have a MicroVAX (BA123 enclosure, KA650 CPU) that I would like to put to work... to this end I have two M7941 (DRV11) parallel I/O cards that I would like to bring into service. The Micronotes say that this card is compatible with the 22-bit QBUS, and I have the Field Service print set so I can set the CSR and vectors to appropriate values. Of course, VMS does not have a driver for these cards, but I am not too frightened by the prospect of a little code - here lies the problem! Can anyone tell me just how this card maps into the I/O space, given the CSR? I would like to know just where to read from and write to in order the drive the beastie... Thanks in advance for your help, Dave.

24 years, 3 months

1
1
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"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com> >I suppose such a product would be good if you need it. It could do >better than to run NT. Maybe they should "port CP/M" to the mainframe. It has been done. At one time you could get "cp/m processor" cards for VAX, PDP-11 and several other machines. Most had several Z80s for multiple users. Allison

24 years, 3 months

2
1
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No subject

by dpeschel＠eskimo.com

list classiccmp list classiccmp-digest

24 years, 3 months

1
0
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"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > A real box can total flood a bundle of gigabit fiber > the diameter of your right leg, its the I/O that sets > these monsters apart really, their CPUs are no > slouch, but not any faster than a common modern > PC chip. So, by "emulated," you didn't mean to imply that they were emulated in such a manner as to be replaced by the peesee -- that is the misunderstanding here, I'm sure. :) Anyway, I've always subscribed to the school of thought which says that the CPU should do only that which can't be accomplished with special purpose chips. It makes things much more elegant. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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Open source -- non computer topics

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: James B. DiGriz [mailto:jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org] > If you're saying that whether somebody is right or not, or whether > substantive matters of potentially great import hang on this, is more > important to some people than having their ass sucked, to the extent > that a Stallman's reasons don't even enter in, then you may > be right. So > what? It doesn't address the issues at all. Actually it's his presentation of those reasons that concerns me. I'm only re-iterating that he would find more sympathetic ears if he weren't so rigid about the whole thing. > Think we've reached the agree to disagree point here, Chief. > It's ceased > to be topical anyway. Suits me. There are certainly more important and interesting things to discuss. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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Open source -- non computer topics

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: James B. DiGriz [mailto:jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org] > > If you mean that the FSF deserves some credit and respect, sure, > > but that's not the way for him to get the former, and it certainly > > has lost him lots of the latter, even if the project may still be > > relatively well thought of. > I think you can make the case that he isn't entirely > unjustified. He and In wanting credit? No, he's not unjustified at all. Only in demanding that the credit take whatever form he likes. :) > the FSF have a lot invested in it. I don't see anything more > objectionable in it than the average corporate trademark claim. It Well, you should see what I have to say about most of those. > certainly annoys a lot of people, though. It might behoove > him to find a > better way of dealilng with the issue if he can. I'll go > along with that. I'll say that it shows an incredible lack of taste and social grace on his part to take offense at everyone who doesn't see it his way (right or not...) That said, he can do what he likes -- I just may not agree with it. > The snide attempts at ad hominems are unwarranted, though. I hope that's not directed towards me. I'll say now that I have nothing against Richard Stallman personally. Only against some opinions that it seems he'd like codified into law. Any "fun" made of him is simply caricature to drive the point home. I have, though, thought about making a BSD/Linux in protest. ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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LJII Memory Cards

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Marvin Johnston > > I have two Memory cards for the HP Laserjet II, both with no > documentation. One is fully stuffed and looks to be 4 MB; the second is > partially stuffed and with what appears to be 1 MB. Best offer over > $10.00 for both plus shipping ($3.50 USPS Priority Mail) by Tuesday. > > If you are not going to follow through quickly, please don't make an > offer or say you want them. > - Does anyone know if these would work in a DEC Laser 2100? - If not, does anyone know of/have any memory for a DECLaser2100 that they are willing to part with? - I remember someone said they had an extra legal tray for an HP LaserJet II/III. That would fit in my (newly acquired) DECLaser 2100. Please e-mail me. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 3 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > Today that campus worth of hardware is emulated in the hercules > s360/370/390/ zSeries emulator http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules > running on a PC running linux or winbloZ I do hope Sridhar will take his time to address this. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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I'm getting sick of this shit! Re: BS al a Erlacher

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

I agree, I don't much like having 20 or so e-mails like that in my inbox... especially because hotmail will start deleting stuff when the mailbox is full enough! I personally junk apple IIs also, though I pitch the power supply and take the boards to the scrapyard. I have nothing against Dick, he's given me lots of neat stuff, and while I'm sure I don't share all of the same opinions that he does, what he does with his property is his own perogative. That's my 1865 2 cent piece worth, Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

24 years, 3 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sridhar the POWERful [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Raymond Moyers wrote: > > OS, DOS, MVS, VM ... running on your pc, serves x3270 > > terms over the network etc etc. > Ow! You're killing me! Heh -- I was hoping for a more verbose reply, but that's ok. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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BS al a Erlacher

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: r. 'bear' stricklin <red(a)bears.org> > On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The year I got my first PC/AT (I used 'em at work all the time, but didn't get > > one at home for a while.) I bought a 25 MHz clone (NEAT architecture) with 8 > > MB RAM and a pair of 700 MB ESDI drives for $1080. That was with a 1kx768x16 > > VGA display board. I hacked it to work with a fixed-frequency (sync-on-green) > > monitor I had sitting around. It was WONDERFUL. That was in early '89. ['bear' replied:] > This struck me as being blatantly wrong, since it seemed to me (if I > recalled) that in early 1989 your 8 MB of RAM would've run nearly $1k by > itself. > > So I checked the January 1990 issue of "Byte". These are directly from the > cheap ads at the back, and representative of prices a year (loosely) > after your conjectured purchase date: [snip prices] > I admit some margin of error is to be expected, but these prices---sampled > fully eight or nine months after your stated date---do not come close to > corroborating your statements. In consideration of this, I must humbly > submit that you are totally full of shit, or at the very least have made a > grave typographical error. >From my files, an invoice from 1990: 25 MHz 80386, motherboard, case, power supply, 4MB RAM, 1.44 MB FDD, 100MB HD, no i/o, no video, no modem $1450, which is exactly in line with the prices you quoted. Ah, but we must remember that Richard buys Windows for $2. He never pays what we have to pay, nor does he stoop to using bullshit systems like we do (Apple, C64, Unix, Amiga). Richard Erlacher is simply a troll. Or an Alzheimer's victim. Or both. Yes, he has some "stuff" which he will sometimes share, but it's hardly worth the amount of crap we put up with here, not to mention that his crappy posts are deliberately formatted in a way which most classiccmpers find hard to read. > As for the rest of you honking geese Just a minute here! Some of my best friends are geese! http://members.aol.com/gusggoose Glen 0/0

24 years, 3 months

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BS al a Erlacher

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Finnegan" <pat(a)purdueriots.com> > > Dick, do you actually have any interest in old machines or > are you just > If you'd read my earlier post, you'd know that my interest > was in giving away > the hardware I had available. The reason was that, while I > still use some of > the old boxes I have from back in the '70's, and while I > still use the ones > that do something the newer ones don't, or simply do it more > conveniently, I Sounds fair to me, though, I go further, and preserve hardware for the sake of "example," among other things. > don't have any interest in keeping non-functional or > redundant hardware lying > about. Just in case somebody complains about this response, I have to say that it sounds like a proper use of this list as far as I can tell. > number of replies instead that simply said, "I'll take it > all, ship it to ..." > with no offer to participate, say, by paying for the packing > and shipping. Normally if I were to tell somebody that, I'd be assuming that I'd at least have to pay the shipping, but if I ever write to you about something like that, I'll try to be clear on it. > itself. I wouldn't say I toy with 'em however. I hot-rod > the things from > time to time, just to see what sort of speed could have come > from them, under > circumstances that didn't then exist, but I certainly don't > pretend I see them > as being in any sense better than what's out there today. Better is, however, very subjective. :) > their grammar, > syntax, and orthography are clear evidence they've not even > read their own > writing, I can't possibly take them seriously. A pet peeve of mine too; you can't get away from those people, either. Some of them are even great people, but their writing is terrible. One thing I've wondered for a while -- and don't take this as an insult -- is, are you aware of the possible slang connotations in your user-name? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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Open source -- non computer topics

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: James B. DiGriz [mailto:jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org] > Nah, I understand that Stallman and the FSF are under > constant probing > for any sign of a capitulatory mood, for any sign of Ok... > tolerance for being > made irrelvant, since they are using IP against itself, and a lot of > people stand to gain at everyone else's expense if they can > crack that Ok... > wall. That's the grounds for the GNU/linux controversy, and > no doubt why > he makes demands that are taken as overreaching to UG's that Huh? There's nothing in the license that says you have to give GNU credit in the popularly accepted name of your software. Trying to change that after the fact by throwing your weight around, so to speak, is certainly in poor taste. Richard "I won't talk to you unless you call your project by my pet name" Stallman has lost much of my respect over all of this. Of course, this is just my opinion, and you can certainly disagree. > want him to > speak. I don't envy his position. He has a point, too, even > if you think > it's overblown. Enough so that a lot of people would prefer If you mean that the FSF deserves some credit and respect, sure, but that's not the way for him to get the former, and it certainly has lost him lots of the latter, even if the project may still be relatively well thought of. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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Jan 82 article abt the IBM PC

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > Linux is making computing CPU agnostic however > and with a system that runs on anything, all that > matters for the hardware is price/performace. I thought NetBSD was about making computing CPU agnostic, and Linux was about giving it huggable plush mascots? ;) > In this new climate, perhaps the dark/ice age of > winblows dumbing down mankind will abate. I've been wishing for this to happen, but I see the world being no closer now that it has been. However, if you have any ideas as to how we can deliver the gospel of computer literacy to the unwashed masses, I'd love to hear them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 3 months

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Jan 82 article abt the IBM PC

by rmoyers＠nop.org

For those interested http://www.nop.org/misc/pics/ibmpc Im one of those that still has many of his old mags going back to the altair days. In the collection is the Jan 82 issue of Byte this article is about the IBM PC, and perhaps some may get a kick out of reading from scans of these yellowed pages Raymond

24 years, 3 months

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I'm getting sick of this shit! Re: BS al a Erlacher

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

At 11:56 PM 4/28/02 -0500, Pat wrote: >Since I haven't seen anyone ask this yet, I'll bite: > >Dick, do you actually have any interest in old machines or are you just >trolling the list? Pat, If you read the messages on the list you'd know better than to ask that question. All of the messages I've read from you lately strongly >imply that you have no real interest toying with or using the systems we >normally talk about on this list. If you're referring to him having no interest in preserving Apple IIs then I'm guilty as well and I'm sure that many people on this list are too. I might not remove the power supplies and pitch to rest but OTOH I don't save any either. Things like Apple IIs, IBMs, etc are just too common. If I saved everyone that I saw I'd not only fill my house but my entire property as well. If Disk can use the power supplies instead of throwing the entire Apple into the trash (or just leaving it in the trash) than I say good for him! Personally I'm getting sick of this flame war and I wish you guys would drop it. Joe > >I'm not trying to start a war, I'm just trying to ask an honest >question (and perhaps giving you a chance to redeem yourself from the >last round of flames). > >-- Pat > >On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> Looks as though someone's p*ssed because he doesn't read and can't write and >> spell. >> >> Dick > > >

24 years, 3 months

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Apology {RE: Sun help needed... [was: RE: ...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Oh boy... Looks like I managed to make myself look like some dumb-ass schizophrenic with a computer. When I really _only_ just a dumb-ass with a computer... Made the mistake of trying to send e-mail through an Exchange server >from Netscape using IMAP. The server lied and said it didn't send the message (that bastard!). That's why I tried two other ways... Many apologies to all for my screw-up. Please respond off-list... But does anyone have a better e-mail client recommendation? I have sub-folders on the server, which I'd need to get to... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 3 months

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M0006

by meltie＠myrealbox.com

On closer inspection, the VAX 11/750 board that I have marked "Property of DEC, Not For Sale" is an M0006 - a Remote Diagnosis board. What can you people tell me about it? Alex -- My computer's heavier than yours.

24 years, 3 months

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Doc > > On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Did someone say power cords??? I got a box of about 4 dozen if you need > any. > > Heh. I can get you about 4 dozen boxes of 'em.... > > Doc > Geezuz Kirsti.... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 3 months

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Commodore PC-20-III

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The BIOS identifies itself as (C)1986 Commodore Electronics Ltd and seems > to be a Phoenix type. I can't figure out how to get into the BIOS setup. > Neat feature: all the devices are identified with their detected port > addresses. Cameron: I have a generic Phoenix BIOS utility which I have used several times on PCs where I could not enter the BIOS setup program via keystrokes. Please * remind me* to send you this utility if you think it will be helpful to you as it is very late here and I will forget . . . Best regards, Glen 0/0

24 years, 3 months

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"Toy" computers http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules

by rmoyers＠nop.org

On Sunday 28 April 2002 13:06, you wrote: > > Actually, its sort of unexpected that you haven't been > > pointed to this project or found this on your own. > > I found it long before you did, I guarantee you. Some of the code in that > project was written by yours truly. Then why the feigned ignorance then ? and I feel some tugging at my lower extremities. In fact... hmmm afu:/data1/OS/herc/mirror/Mail-archive-html/hercules-390-2000-Q1-Q3# grep -l "nop.org" * 0058.html afu:/data1/OS/herc/mirror/Mail-archive-html/hercules-390-2000-Q1-Q3# grep -i "date" 0058.html <strong>Date:</strong> Wed Mar 01 2000 - 19:43:55 GMT Ya know, ive been on the Herc mail list for a while and ... afu:/data1/OS/herc/mirror/Mail-archive-html/hercules-390-2000-Q1-Q3# grep -l "ikickass.org" * grep: att-0581: Is a directory afu:/data1/OS/herc/mirror/Mail-archive-html/hercules-390-2000-Q1-Q3# cd ../ afu:/data1/OS/herc/mirror/Mail-archive-html# grep -sirl "ikickass.org" * You are not in my archives mirror at all I think you are blowin smoke up my Butt. > Come back when you know what you are talking about. And my error was where ? non-seq tosser too i see. > (BTW, from your previous argument, I was *on the team that ported Linux to > S/390 at Marist College* Linux was not ported at marist, it was a skunkworks project @ IBM itself ( with much work done @ IBM Germany) Marist had the first starter kits. http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/04/25/2151204&mode=nocomment&tid=23 At age 28, Boas Betzler is known at IBM as the "grandfather" of Linux on the mainframe. In mid-1998, he began a port of Linux to the IBM zSeries, and he's shepherded the Linux mainframe project from the beginning to the first shipments. In porting Linux to an IBM mainframe, Betzler went against the grain both internally at IBM, where many saw Linux as a competitor to IBM's own mainframe operating system, and among many analysts outside of IBM, who suggested the port wasn't possible without a huge investment. Betzler's "fun" project has helped IBM record double-digit revenue growth for the first time in more than a decade You are not talking out of your usual orifice it seems, or perhaps you are. Was: Error in Marist large filesystem: Library symlinks Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:20:24 -0600 From: Raymond Moyers <rmoyers(a)nop.org> To: Linux on VM Port <LINUX-VM(a)VM.MARIST.EDU> Hmm seems ive deleted some of my older posts grr, o well they have a list archive too, and im in it, been on that list from near day one ... i dont seem to recall you there either. You are not talking out of your usual orifice it seems, or perhaps you are. you sound as if you had been locked in a glass house with an old 360/67 for 20 years and suddenly came out and spent the last day or so cramming for your last post. Common man, it isnt my aim to get in no pecker fight here, its just the exchange of experience projects and ideas, so why go to an extent of putting your integrity in question. bad move imo. > -- Linux is *not* the best thing to happen to mainframes. IBM sales sure says otherwise, it has reversed a downward trend in sales in market conditions where the field elsewhere is not climbing. IBM gives direct credit to Linux on the 390 for this. > I know the capabilities of the hardware, I know the capabilities of the > OS, and I know that the OS is not the best choice for the hardware > in most cases). Unix given a persona, being more GP than anything before seen on earth, would not claim to be "best" at anything. it would claim provably beyond all doubt, running on devices from wristwatch ( demoed by IBM ) to the mainframe, that it is good at more things than any other system can claim. Linux on the s390 bare metal would sure be incomplete, it dont have all the support from all the user written tools dealing with the specifics of that hardware, it still really needs VM under it to fill in it functional gaps. Thats the argument you could have made, so why am i the one making it. ( i dont see that condition existing forever tho, VM was no utilitarian cornacopia on the hacked 360/40 it was born on either, even VM370r6 cant run XEDIT because the full screen support is missing, but hey, VM got better and so will linux390) This last post from you was in the flavor that it seems you think i was attacking you or something, relax man, that isnt the case. Leftist moonies always translate disagreement with them into personal attacks, they call you racist, or go into their shout you down mode or .. Is that what this is ? Raymond -------------------------------------------------------

24 years, 3 months

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CP/M-86

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> I've been playing around with cp/m-86, and was wondering if anyone knew if > a multiuser (like MP/M) version was available somewhere? My next step is > to try making it work under Dosemu on Linux if I cant... Yes, it's called MP/M-86: http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/os/MPM86-21I.ZIP or http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/os/MPM86-21E.ZIP hth, -dq

24 years, 3 months

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Serendipity

by r.stek＠snet.net

Doug - You asked about Lee Felsenstein turning the intelligent terminal into a computer. From an article he wrote in 1977, (found on Jim Battle's Sol site) he stated that they were requested to design an inteligent terminal for Popular Electronics. He had already designed the VDM board and wanted to use it for his so-called Tom Swift terminal. He and Bob Marsh worked out designs and Bob's used an 8080 whereas his did not. They eventually realized that they had a whole computer, but downplayed that until after the article was published. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

24 years, 3 months

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FW: Free chips to good home (gone!)

by jcwren＠jcwren.com

Thanks to everyone who showed interest (which was a lot more than I expected). The chips have found new homes, and will be winging their way their Monday. Based on the replies, I guess I should have put them on eBay with "L@@K!" "RARE!", and made my retirement money. This is actually something that really gets me wound up. These people gut an old XT, and list every chip they can yank off the board as "RARE!". So it has gold flashed pins. So what? It's ceramic? So what? A 27C128 is not "L@@K RARE!". And there are a couple of particular offenders. I've though about writing a CGI script that trolls for that, and automatically sends an e-mail every day to the effect of "Hi! You're an idiot, and couldn't recognize a RARE! chip if it bit you on the ass. Please stop polluting eBay with your useless crap that you can't even identify. How can I tell? Because you put RARE! and a part number, and no part description what so ever. Moron". --John > I've got some chips sitting around that may (or may not) interest the > classiccmp'ers. > > 2 MC68010LC10 (10Mhz "aircraft carrier" (DIP-64) 68010s) > 1 MC68010R10 (10Mhz PGA 68010) > 4 AT&T DSP-16a > 2 Acorn chip sets (VL86C010 + VL86C410 + VL86C110) > 1 AMD 9511D (DIP Arithimetic Co-processor) > 4 COM9046 (SMC voice scramblers)

24 years, 3 months

2
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(crystals) Re: R.I.P. for D.I.Y.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: John Allain <allain(a)panix.com> >Could someone point out a catalog/website that gives good complete >solutions? (IE the crystal needs some support components which I have >no clue). Apparently two crystals of equal spec from different >manufacturers will require diff. support, so... help. thanks. The most direct place to go is the PIC chip vendor. They will specify the crystal and related componenets. Allison

24 years, 3 months

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Free Plus shipping

by fernande＠internet1.net

-Solid State Fisher Model 440-T receiver, not working correctly, but probably fixable, has all parts, not in the best of shape, but could be made functional. -DEC M7639 -DEC M7622-BT 8 megs, not 16 -DEC M7621-AP Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 3 months

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Unix versions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bill Pechter <pechter(a)pechter.dyndns.org> >As far as I know that's as far as it got inside DEC as well. >I once wondered where was the base DOS/Batch box left inside DEC >to build the XXDP stuff and DECX/11... I figure they just hacked it on >a DEC10 or RSTS/E box... maybe later on a VAX under PDP11 emulators. Used to be in building 21 fieldservice diagnostic engineering. I always wondered what the internal structure of it was. Allison

24 years, 3 months

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Questions about a donation

by vcf＠siconic.com

Anyone want an IBM PC? Reply-to: joan-keith(a)attbi.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:57:08 -0400 From: Joan Keith <joan-keith(a)attbi.com> Subject: Questions about a donation Hi, I have one of the earliest IBM PCs. I don't know if this is something you would be interested or not. As I recall, it was upgraded from 64k of memory to 192 and it has a single-sided 5 1/4 disk drive. It is in my mother's attic in Baltimore. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 3 months

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scans of M8164 (MK11) engineering drawings

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

I have an MK11 printset, but it has an M8159 schematic which has been superceeded by the M8164 board (which I have). I don't have a schematic for the M8164 board, which I presume is different than the M8159. So, I am looking for scans of the M8164 board schematics... Also, if someone has schematics for the M8728-AC/AF board that would be nice to have as well. --tnx --tom

24 years, 3 months

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Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav en, CT]

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > > try to describe the scsi bus and termination. > > > > do a probe-scsi and a probe-scsi-all... > > > > > > > > let me know what that does. > > > > I'm pretty sure that there is a Sun screwup in the Ultra1 boot ROM such > > that "probe-scsi" doesn't work right when "auto-boot" is enabled. > > > > auto-boot?=false > > After turning off auto-boot you need to type 'reset' and hit return, this is > true on both Ultra 1's and 2's. If the auto-boot is already off, you still > need to do a 'reset' before doing teh probe-scsi/probe-scsi-all. > > Zane Well the RRD42, external CD worked. And I found out exactly why no CD drive worked internally... the plastic ribbon cable was tearing away! Oh well. Guess it's time to stick my CD-ROM in a SCSI case... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Ver. 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 3 months

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Period pricing references (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Erik S. Klein" <eklein(a)impac.com> wrote: > My first IBM PC (December 1981) cost nearly $2,800 for a 64K machine, 1 SSDD > floppy (120K with DOS 1.0) and a color card with an RF Modulator. Back in the early-to-mid 1990s some friends of mine and I were comparing microcomputers we had over a roughly 15-year time span. Our conclusion was that from 1976 'til then, it cost about US$3000 to buy "the computer system you wanted", meaning what your computer system eventually grew into. That usually included some sort of peripherals, often bought after the initial purchase, and we were looking at an IMSAI 8080, a couple TRS-80s (Model Is), an Apple ][+, an IBM PC/XT, an Amiga 1000, and I'm not sure what else. I think at the time I was thinking my 486/33 desktop PC was below the curve (at about $2000), but I bought it from someone who was closing his computer store so got a pretty good deal. (BTW, I think it's on-topic now, it's still in use as a dial-on-demand NAT router, and it's been on 24x7 most of the last 10 years. Yes, you can blame me for last year's power woes in California.) I'm not sure where things are today but I think prices have come down. My last couple systems bought new for a purpose are notebook PCs, and of course there's a premium associated with that. I'm thinking they are something like $2500 and $2000, and the latter is an iBook that hasn't cost me that much yet but probably will by the time I'm done with it (I want to get it some more RAM, an Airport card, maybe a USB stiffy drive). -Frank McConnell

24 years, 3 months

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Recycling donated PCs

by bpope＠wordstock.com

Check out this place in Oakland, CA: http://www.linuxjournal.com//article.php?sid=6021 They are taking donated PCs, installs Linux on them a provides them to schools, scientists, governments, non-profits, the underprivileged and the handicapped. They also are creating cluster farms which are being used in *very* cool ways! Cheers, Bryan

24 years, 3 months

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DECStation Ultrix

by meltie＠myrealbox.com

Whilst i'm in a "fixing problems with my classiccmps" mood, does anyone have a copy of the Decstation Ultrix Installation CD at home that they could make an ISO file of for me, so I can resurrect my DS3100? Thanks Alex -- My computer's heavier than yours.

24 years, 3 months

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Toshiba T3100/20

by Alexanderfam＠aol.com

Hi, I have a secondhand T3100/20 and on the left hand side, the side where the hard drive is, next to the A,B,PRT switch there is a small DIN socket. Does anyone know what this does? If it's the internal modem, how do I communicate with it please? Many thanks, Lawrence

24 years, 3 months

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R.I.P. for D.I.Y.

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

>What I do for BGA protos is this: > >1. Solder the BGA(s) first! >This is for a couple of reasons, its easier to inspect the soldering, and if >you mess up the BGA soldering you can start with a fresh board and not have to >remove the BGA part. (Though I have removed and resoldered BGAs with pretty >good luck) > >2. Build a "frame" around the BGA by soldering pieces of scrap circuit board >material on all 4 sides of the BGA, leaving a little (5 mill) clearance on >each side. I do this with pieces of paper as a shim that I later remove. This >is the most critical part, the BGA part must be located in the right position >on the PC by the frame. The 5 mill clearanec on the side is so the BGA can >"float and settle" when the balls melt -surface tension will bring it into >perfect alignment with the PCB pads. I do the frame alignment by setting the >BGA on edge (vertical) against each of my frame pieces and checking the >ball/PCB pad alignment. So do you lay out the PCB with areas on the four sides to which you can solder your "frame"? >3. Put _A LOT_ of rosin core flux on the PC BGA pads. You dont need any solder >with the common solder ball type BGAs they have plenty in the balls. > >4. Heat from behind with a heat gun. I use a standard $59 Granger heat gun. >This requires some pratice to avoid overheating the board. You can pratice by >soldering small SMT parts to scrap or used PCBs. Moving the heat gun around in >a small circular pattern will help avoid PCB damage. When the Rosin flux >really begins to smoke, the temperature is just about right. You can see when >the BGA solder balls melt, because the BGA chip will sink about 1/2 mm. When >you see it sink, Your done! When you say "behind", I assume you mean the underside of the PCB, not the top of the BGA? Does the board want to be laying flat so that gravity helps or does the solder surface tension take care of it? I assume that you don't press the BGA part down? I've heard that moisture from humidity can cause problems, sometimes refered to as the "popcorn effect". What can you tell us about this? I've heard it has to do with component storage... >5. Checking: When the PCB is cool you need to remove the flux and inspect the >soldering. If the BGA is soldered properly the solder balls will have a >squashed appearance on all 4 sides of the BGA and you should be able see >through all the interball rows in both directions by along the underside of >the BGA. If the balls are not melted enough, you can re-apply flux and re-heat >The worst thing that can happen is that your frame is mis-aligned so far that >the balls ended up stikinf to 2 pads and have have merged underneath the BGA. >In that case you need to remove the BGA and try again (with a new part) > > >I have not been 100% successful but am close to 85% good solders first time... Thanks for the advice. It doesn't sound too bad... --tom

24 years, 3 months

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CP/M-86

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I've been playing around with cp/m-86, and was wondering if anyone knew if a multiuser (like MP/M) version was available somewhere? My next step is to try making it work under Dosemu on Linux if I cant... -- Pat

24 years, 3 months

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Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav en, CT]

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> > > try to describe the scsi bus and termination. > > > do a probe-scsi and a probe-scsi-all... > > > > > > let me know what that does. > > I'm pretty sure that there is a Sun screwup in the Ultra1 boot ROM such > that "probe-scsi" doesn't work right when "auto-boot" is enabled. > > auto-boot?=false After turning off auto-boot you need to type 'reset' and hit return, this is true on both Ultra 1's and 2's. If the auto-boot is already off, you still need to do a 'reset' before doing teh probe-scsi/probe-scsi-all. Zane

24 years, 3 months

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Unix versions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 26, 10:19, Bill Pechter wrote: > > I'm slightly puzzled by what you say about DEC X-11, though. My exposure > > to it and XXDP is only in the form of the diagnostics available to end > > users and third-party service organisations, and I suspect there's more to > > it than that. The reason I think of XXDP as the OS and X-11 as the, well, > > application in a way, is that all I see are the X-11 modules to run build > > and series of tests, whereas XXDP includes the monitor, system handlers etc > > (as well as the diagnostic programs and utilites, of course). To me, > > that's the OS. > > > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > > Network Manager > > University of York > > You're exactly correct, except the XXDP doesn't have drivers for > the comm gear and other stuff, whereas DECX/11 can have modules > running simulating disk and tape i/o, comm i/o and can do task > scheduling and timeouts. Also DECX/11 is interrupt driven where most of > XXDP polls status registers. Yes, I knew about the polled operation. > I stretched my view a bit. DEC training called XXDP a diagnostic > monitor... which was ok until the DS> diagnostic supervisor got loose... > and the names collided. > > The XXDP monitor is single tasking, non-interrupt driven, polling and > can hang forever waiting for an event that never comes. DECX/11 won't. > DECX/11 seemed much more os-like. Batch streams do exist in XXDP > (the .ccc chain files) -- but that's just minimal scripting. Yes, .ccc is of rather limited use. Enough for sets of diagnostics and not much more, really. Thanks for the information -- I'm enlightened. Did DECX/11 ever make it outside of DEC's walls, other than in the form of strings of modules for field confidence tests? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 3 months

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Some new finds and Some Wanted Items

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Picked new in the box Apple II SCSI Card for II Plus, IIe, and IIGS, has cool little wrench with the apple logo stamped in the metal. New in the box System 6 IIGS. New in the box HyperStudio for the IIGS, Version 3.1 with System 6.01. Books - Introduction to Analog Computation by Joseph J. Blum, Mac Internet Tour Guide with software, TEX for the BeginnerMicro-Computer Handbook by Charles J. Sippl (from 1977), the Z-80 microcomputer handbook by William Barden, Jr., Programming the Z80 3rd Ed. by Rodnay Zaks and last VAX software Source Book Volume 2 Systems software, second edition January 1985 by digital. A Sega PowerBack for the Gamegear ($2.99) at a local thrift and from the same place a Logitech joystick (digital 3D) for $3.99, and a cool controller for the PS1 for $2.99. Now for the wanted items - looking to complete my Mac collection that I started years ago trying to collect one of each model from 1984 to 1995 for a total of 103 machines. PB160 - working or not Mac 512Ke Quadra 800 WGS60 Performa 466, 467, 550, 275,, 560, 577,578, 658 Duo250, Duo270, Duo280, Color classic II 610DOS PM8100 WS6150, WS8150, WS9150 PB520c, PB540, PB540c, PB150 LC630 PF6110, PF6112, PF6115, PF6117, PF6118 6100/110 8100/100 If anyone has one or more of these that they would like to unload email me off list at jrkeys(a)concentric.net. Thanks for reading.

24 years, 3 months

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New 'Toy'

by pat＠purdueriots.com

Yesterday I was lucky enough to pick up an IBM 5150 at Purdue Salvage for $0 (just before it hit the trash). After a bit of playing with it, and trying a SVGA card with it (it had no video card in it when I got it, I'm suprised the 16bit card works OK in an 8bit slot), I've gotten it to boot into MS-DOS 5 (ick) and CP/M-86. I now seem to have a problem with its second floppy drive... When I try reading from any disk, I get a "Data error" in CP/M and DOS. I think that the problem is the head not moving... I can 'format' a disk in CP/M in the drive, but I don't hear the disk head seeking. These are IBM branded DSDD (full height 5-1/4") floppy drives. Does anyone have any info I can use to try and debug (and hopefully fix) this problem? -- Pat

24 years, 3 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> > > If it's a mainframe, then the campus is the enclosure, > > > while if it's a desktop, it's pretty obvious what that is. > > > > Today that campus worth of hardware is emulated in the hercules > > s360/370/390/ zSeries emulator http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules > > running on a PC running linux or winbloZ > > > > OS, DOS, MVS, VM ... running on your pc, serves x3270 > > terms over the network etc etc. > > Ow! You're killing me! What's the emoticon for the world's smallest violin? You're breakin' our hearts! ;)

24 years, 3 months

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Free DEC R400X DSSI expansion chassis

by fernande＠internet1.net

Free DEC R400X DSSI expansion chassis, plus a few other spare parts from the one I scrapped out. It has no drive sleds, unfortunetly. It is in Southwest Michigan, and you must come pick it up. I will not ship this thing. Please respond off list. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 3 months

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.I.P. for D.I.Y.

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

>> I got this URL for an article in Scientific American that seems > appropriate for this group :). The last paragraph reads: > > "Evidently, the something-for-everyone model epitomized by Heathkit and > the Amateur Scientist column can't compete anymore. Specialized sources > and Internet newsgroups cater to each skill level. But much of the > mentoring and serendipity that the diverse community of amateurs offered > has been lost. It is hard not to regret its passing." Well, I didn't know this about Edmund Scientific. Crap. I've been looking for the older catalogs, now even the more recent ones I've got will become collectable unobtainium. Where will I buy water wetter? Where will I buy Nitonol wire? Where will I buy flock paper? Where will I buy cheap assortment of lab glassware? Where will I buy an ultrasonic cleaner? Where will I buy a good Chinese microscope? and so on... <sob!>

24 years, 3 months

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FW: Adopted -- PC Convertible 5140

by rcini＠msn.com

I was contacted by the below person regarding a PC Convertible. I already have one so I'm passing this on to the list. Please contact Leigh directly. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Bluewolf Creative Arts [mailto:bluewolf.creative@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:40 AM To: rcini(a)optonline.net Subject: RE: Adopted -- PC Convertible 5140 Hi Rich, Yes you may put the word out that I have a very nice one of these for sale - I'm thinking of putting it up on ebay to seewho nibbles, but I will wait until you contact your collector group first. Unfortunately I do not have a manual or any supporting software disks, etc - just the machine itself - which boots just fine and shows a window with commands at the bottom which I do not really understand - in addition to load/save/ - which is easy enough- there are commands for tron/troff/ and others. Here's my site: http://bluewolfcreative.com (still under construction) Best regards, Leigh >-----Original Message----- >From: Bluewolf Creative Arts [mailto:bluewolf.creative@verizon.net] >Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:47 PM >To: rcini(a)optonline.net >Subject: Re: Adopted -- PC Convertible 5140 > > >Rich, I recently acquired one of these machines also - >it's an IBM PC Convertible 5140 in perfect condition... >however, I am a mac person, so I am looking to sell >this machine. Are you interested? It came without >the printer but the external power supply works just >fine... no manual... it boots up just fine - tried some >dos commands but no luck - how does one work >this thing? It's pretty cute - looks like new... > >Leigh in Palm Springs CA SA

24 years, 3 months

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Mark-8 parts for sale

by MTPro＠aol.com

Thank you to everyone who responded to my ad to sell my Mark-8 kit. For anyone interested in the boards or additional parts, here is the man to contact: Steve Gabaly Apalachin, NY old_computers(a)yahoo.com Steve's a good guy and has painstakingly created his Mark-8s and parts, etc. His CD contains a wealth of great info including a copy of the original Radio Electronics article, a supplemental 47 page construction article, a 50 page manual detailing his experience and hints debugging this computer (with many photos and full scans of completed boards), and about 200 pages of the Mark-8 newsletter (the first real computer hobbyist newsletter that kept all the early pioneers informed before Byte came out, its a treasure chest of historical information about the Mark-8 and other early computers, the January 1975 issue is especially interesting, this is when the Altair was introduced). Best, David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay

24 years, 3 months

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Mathiputer

by hybridhybrid＠msn.com

Are you interested in another mathiputer - let me know Smith

24 years, 3 months

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Hp2100 software available. Where ?

by CAA007216＠mail.ono.es

Hello everybody. I should like to probe the HP2100 simulator available under Bob Supnik's SIMH. Is there any software repository available for this machine ? I know the Jeff Moffat's website programs only, but somebody spoke here some time ago about some other place where to get software for this machine. Greetings Sergio

24 years, 3 months

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Amstrad PPC640

by GColinwg＠aol.com

Hello my name is Colin from (UK) i also have just got an Amstrad ppc640 just for messing around on.... but it doesn't have any operating system on it and won't recognise any disks as when i boot it up it always says invalid system disk... i am using both 720k diskettes and have tried 1.44meg and tried putting all dos versions and windows 95 onto it.... any advice would be most grateful.... Yours... Colin E-mail ---- GColinwg(a)aol.com

24 years, 3 months

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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> SCOPE and Kronos were based on Chippewa. COS was largely > written by Seymour Cray; in particular, MTR is known by > programmers who worked on it later to have been written > completely by Cray. He and one or perhaps two others did > it between June and December 1964. I should point out here that Cray's MTR continued through NOS/BE 1.4 or later, but the Kronos version was rewritten >from scratch by Greg Mansfield. -dq

24 years, 3 months

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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Chippewa??? I don't remember that one. I remember SCOPE > and, later, KRONOS. SCOPE and Kronos were based on Chippewa. COS was largely written by Seymour Cray; in particular, MTR is known by programmers who worked on it later to have been written completely by Cray. He and one or perhaps two others did it between June and December 1964. It was not meant to be a product. The *product* operating system to be bundled with the machine was SIPROS. SIPROS used an assembler named ASCENT that used different mnemonics thsn COMPASS, which was the assembler under SCOPE and Kronos. COS was written in octal. The source consists of two octal numbers, a load address, two spaces, and the value at that address. Further to the left in the traditional "comment field" area is indeed a comment field, so the COS octal source at least has some comments. There is a CP program named APRAB that assembles these octal sources to binary. COS also included Garner McCrossen's RUN compiler, which handled both FORTRAN II and FORTRAN IV, as well as embedded assembly language. The first versions of the display console programs DSD and DIS come from Chippewa, as well as the control cards COPY COPYCR COPYCF COPYBR COPYBF COPYSBF REWIND VERIFY LBC LOC PBC DMP plus concepts like the dayfile, control points, combined input & output (CIO), and the RUN compiler continued to be available in the later SCOPE and Kronos. You can read all about it at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/cdc/60124500_ChippewaOSref.pdf -dq

24 years, 3 months

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Serendipity (Was: Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format))

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> > > Lots of perfectly useable computers started out as little > more than toys. [..snip..] > Nevertheless, Ed Roberts has gone on record as saying he didn't intend the > thing to grow into a computer, which suggests that he didn't originally view > it as one. The Processor Technology SOL likewise was not intended to be a stand-alone computer. Lee had in mind a terminal for use with connecting to real computers. I can't recall if he and Bob Marsh just looked at each other one day and realized it could be more, or if the stand-alone concept originated with Les Solomon. Bob Stek? Jim Battle? What do you recall? -dq

24 years, 4 months

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"Windows V1.0"

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Eric J. Korpela" <korpela(a)ssl.berkeley.edu> wrote: > Windows didn't really have 386 support until 3.0 Um, I think the Windows Virtual Machine Manager (and the notion of using multiple V86-mode VMs and virtual device drivers to run multiple DOS windows concurrently) first turned up in Windows/386. ObClassiccmp: this was long enough ago to be on topic. Hey Fred, is there any room over there on the Group Grumpy bench? -Frank McConnell

24 years, 4 months

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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mhstein＠canada.com

Fred, you're my man! All the same printers, among others, that I used with my CBM PETs (except the LJ which came later, and my Diablo was the model without the 4004), and they were all FINE printers, especially the 101 (a substantial piece of hardware indeed); still have the 40 foot (!) parallel ribbon cable so I could keep the printer in the basement & close the door to keep the noise reasonable upstairs in the office... mike ----------------Original Message------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers) > The only printers for the coco really was the RS ones and really crappy > at that too! ANY "RS-232" printer that was switchable to "AUTO LF" would work just fine. And, with a serial/parallel converter (reaily available, and which quite a few people here are capable of building), parallel "centronics" printers worked. I used a Coco with DTC-300 (HiType I daisy wheel, with 4004 processor), Centronics 101 (weighed 4 zillion times what the computer did), silly radio shack pen plotter/printer, Epson MX-100, and HP Laserjet! Which of those is the crappiest?

24 years, 4 months

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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > When you opened the box with your COCO, what useful work > would it do with the > $399 you had just spent? Could you write a letter? Could As with any computer, you'd need software. Let's take that into account, and say that you could certainly get software on ROM cartridges, and that you could plug a normal household tape recorder in and store data on cassette. Sure, it's not the greatest thing in the world, but it will "balance the checkbook" that way. > you write and > compile a Fortran program? Could you save your work in any I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not fun) given the proper programs. > meaningful way? > Given that you had a printer, could you attach it and use it? Yes, if it was a serial printer. Most software that used a printer depended on having a serial printer plugged into that port on the back of the system. If it was parallel, you'd need a converter. > What software > was there, that you could install and use? How and where > would you install Cartridge slot or cassette tape. Again, there was some available. I'm not sure that it would be enough to constitute "lots," but there was certainly some of most types of software. > it? When you finally decided you had to build your own > hardware and write > your own software, wouldn't it have been easier to use a > wirewrap card and a > CPU chip and start from scratch rather than having to work I'm sure it depends on what you're doing. It seemed to me that the bus slot in the side would have been simple enough to use for hardware add-ons, and you could certainly program the thing in machine code, if nothing else. > hardware didn't cost less if you used one of the "toy"-based > systems, and the > software wasn't any more available than if you'd used a > "real" computer. It Home computers have never been in the same class as "real computers". I'll be the first one to suggest that; they probably never will, either. I would say that it depends on whether you wanted to do "home computer" things, or something more. Certainly it would cost quite a bit of money to make them do something they weren't designed to do, but if your needs fit the design, they were probably fine. Even adding disks would have still been less expensive than the "real computers" of the day. > near the bottom. For something equal to, say, and Apple][,. > I'd say you'd pay > nearly twice what a well-purchased Apple][ would have cost > for a RS product of > nearly similar actual capabilities. RS never did build > something genuinely > intended for expansion though, did they? That was a complaint of mine too. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 4 months

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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Christopher Smith wrote: > > you write and > > > compile a Fortran program? Could you save your work in any > > > > I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that > > didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not > > fun) given the proper programs. > > Fortran II could compile from paper tape on the IBM 1620. > The PDP-8 had I think a paper tape version of fortran too, > but not sure what version, II or IV. I think this might be an articial distinction... All the operating systems for the CDC 6600 and its kin required some kind of disk or drum drive, where parts of the operating system would reside. However, the compiler itself could just as easily have been loaded and run from tape in the Chippewa OS. The FORTRAN programs it processed could be on magtape or on cards; Chippewa doesn't seem to have any papertape support. There does not appear to be any support for the user or even the operator to have disk-resident files, as there was no filesystem to speak of in Chippewa. -dq

24 years, 4 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Well, OK. I didn't explicitly mention that they made floppies for the >floppy port. Bu "exactly one", I meant "hard disks" to show that it >wasn't commonly done. Ah yes... beyond floppies, the Apple HD20 is the only other device by ANYONE that I am aware of for the Mac floppy port (their might be other stuff... I'm just not aware of them). But floppy drives were available >from a number of vendors. >I do not >recall if a FDHD drive will work, even at 800K, in a Mac that isn't >expecting it. I have one FDHD SE and several 800K SEs; I suppose if >I were ever curious enough, I could test the theory. I don't think it could be done with Apple branded drives unless you had the newer ROM that allowed the FDHD. However, there were some 3rd party external drives that worked with 1.44 3.5 disks, and even with 5.25 and PC disks. And those worked with older Macs (at least back to the Mac Plus, and I think as far back as the 512k or kE). I think Dayna was an example of a company that made a high density external drive for the Plus... and they had a model that had a 5.25 drive in the same case (only R/W pc format IIRC). But I assume such drives had an init and didn't "just work". I will be sure to test the AE drive I am getting from Dave tonight on my Mac Plus to see if it could read a 1.44 disk. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 4 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Hey! I did say the mass storage interface had to be internal to the > "computer" and not necessarily the mass storage devices. Sure, but my point was, for instance, the C64 had drives that used what basically amounts to a straight serial (or is that parallel?) interface, and that is in the computer. But they're "toys," right? > campus is the enclosure, while if it's a desktop, it's pretty Is that like "the network is the computer?" :) > Besides, though I didn't originally point this out, some of > you guys have, as > toys, some of those very machines that you're pointing out > aren't really toys. > Are you guys trying to have it both ways? Just because they're not toys doesn't make it impossible to play with them like toys. We could just define anything that's not necessary for survival to be a toy, and be done with it. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 4 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mythtech＠mac.com

>my PS/2 is a 'real' computer? err... change all my refs of PS/2 to PS2 (ie: Sony Playstation 2). Sorry, spent the day looking at IBM PS/2's (ie: the computer), so the slash just jumped its way in there. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 4 months

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IBM PC 5150

by mhstein＠canada.com

>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:16:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >Subject: RE: Period pricing references (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers) >Did yours have the extra DB blockoff plate on the back panel? Yup! >Did it have a drive mounting screw coming up from the bottom? Yup! >My first 5150 came from IBM with a WHITE (NOT RED!) power switch, and a >BLACK power supply (63.5W?) Mine too! With very few, very stiff and very short connecting cables. >These days, I hardly EVER even see the 16K-64K motherboard ones. Well, I threw out the case a while ago, but still have the motherboard, some keyboards and maybe even the black PSU, as well as some IBM TM100 faceplates, if anybody's interested. mike

24 years, 4 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > > That pretty much describes commodore disk drives, yep. The > An external IDE drive would be hazardous thing to use because > of cable length. Didn't think of that -- you're probably right. > > handled all of the complexities of disk I/O, so that the CPU didn't > > need to -- so there are good points to them. > What you may have had, then, is a toy with a computer as a > peripheral. That > was probably quite a bit after the time reference of 1980. Actually, I don't remember what CPU was in the 1541 drives, but I seem to recall that it was actually more powerful than the computer. I also remember somebody working on a way to get code into the drive to be executed, but that's kind of fuzzy. > What I am focused on is where the intelligence to run the I/O > resides. Once So does the computer have to come with it, or simply allow space for it on the inside of the case? > peripherals made great deal of sense. However, it resulted > in ugly and > awkward packaging, which was addressed even later with more > elegant interface > standards, say, by 1986, with the standardization of SCSI. Well, I certainly won't argue with that. > > Would you also have considered 9-track tape "mass storage" for the > > time? > I'd tread lightly around that subject, unless your Atari or > whatever, had a > 9-track drive in '80 or so. Obviously not, I'm just curious as to whether it would need to be some form of "fast" disk-like storage, or if a high-capacity tape would be ok. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 4 months

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Open the box. Open the S-100 mainframe. Open the individual Wow, an S-100 mainframe. I want one of those. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 4 months

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > I have worse news: today, it's called a Macintosh. Before you > argue with > me, consider that nobody in their right mind would want to > buy a computer > with less than 10% market penetration, without a pretty > compelling reason. Having considered that, I've decided that the fact that it's a very nice system, and you prefer it to a Macintosh is a compelling reason to buy a system with less than 10% market penetration. Of course, there's also the "which market" argument, which I don't think I have to get into... > I find that most Mac users I talk to have compelling reasons > for owning > Macs. People that want a PC will buy a PC. People that want a They like them; indeed, that's a compelling reason. No matter how good the system is, you can't do a thing with it if you're not comfortable with it. (well, ok, you can, but it's much harder) > Mac will buy > a Mac. People that want a computer will buy a PC (though IMO > they would be > better served with Macs, but that's solely my own opinion and They certainly would, though that's not really high praise for Macintosh. They'd be better off with an Atari 400. :) People buy peesees for one of four reasons: They favor them -- usually because they've never seen anything else. Their friend-who-knows-everything-about-computers likes them (yeah...) Everybody else is doing it They don't know that anything else exists I can't think of another reason to buy a peesee. Personally, I'm much happier with my used workstation than I would be if I'd bought a peesee at the same time, for about twice the money. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 4 months

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > ... and you feel it's warranted to spend vast amounts of > money, which the > Altair cost, on a machine with no means for putting code/data > in or out except > for single-bit LED's and a few switches when there's no other > means for > inserting/extracting information? Even Ed Roberts indicated Dick, I think you're the only one on the list who _wouldn't_ spend vast amounts of time and money for a computer like that ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 4 months

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Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Haven, CT]

by mythtech＠mac.com

> This may be an off-topic post, but Chris is nuts for old HP laser >printers and old Macs! More nuts for old Macs and Apple's. I wouldn't have done the drive for the printers if I didn't have a use for them. But for Mac's or Apple's... yeah, I'd have done it just to add yet another one to my pile (and if it was one I didn't already have... then I would have driven even farther) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 4 months

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URGENT: 1979 vintage Linoterm system needs home!

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hi, gang, Even though my interests have swung pretty much back to ham radio, etc., I still get the occasional E-mail advising me of a classic computing system that needs a new home. This one's a doozy -- an honest-to-God Mergenthaler 'Linoterm' system. The owner is located in the Puget Sound region, Washington state. Please contact him directly using the info in the following note. Note that this one is time-critical. If you can help this fellow, please contact him ASAP. Thanks much. Message copy follows. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hi Bruce - I have a Mergenthaler Linoterm Model 50M computer phototypesetter, and it needs a home. It was bought new by the previous owner (a Seattle ad-agency owner) in 1979 for roughly $52,000. This machine is the transition between the hot-lead Linotype mechanical typesetters and the Linotronic, the first of today's computerized typesetting gear. The Linoterm set what might be the all-time high-water mark for typographic quality. There's a combined CRT/keyboard terminal that runs everything (looks like a Wang VS terminal). The main processor is a big cardcage that holds a bunch of doormat-sized circuit cards (looks to be TTL) with 16K of RAM, and (2) 8" floppy drives. The typesetting unit is optical, controlled by a Z80 chip. OS is supposed to be proprietary, but it seems to respond to typical CP/M commands, so it's probably CP/M with some custom extensions. Then there's quite a bit of support equipment and accessories, a good batch of 8" floppies (old files, training stuff, and the OS), and a complete set of manuals. I had it cabled up and running about five years ago, so it's all there and it all works. We just moved a few weeks ago from Mill Creek (just south of Everett) to Burlington, which is why I need to find a new home for the Linoterm. It's in the garage at our old place in Mill Creek, so when that place sells, it needs to be gone. I also have quite a few other vintage bits and pieces that might belong in somebody's restoration, but those were small and easily moved. The Linoterm is good-sized, about a pickup load, and weighs a couple hundred pounds. Thanks for any help you can give me on this: I'd hate to have to just scrap it. - Rick Harrison - rgh(a)fidalgo.net - richardgharrison(a)yahoo.com - (360) 707-5989 (land line and answering machine) - (425) 330-2084 (cell phone) PS: I don't have the scanner hooked up at the new place yet, but if some scans out of the manual will find it a home, I'll get it hooked up, just let me know. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)

24 years, 4 months

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > > > > Altair cost, on a machine with no means for putting code/data > > Dick, I think you're the only one on the list who _wouldn't_ spend > > vast amounts of time and money for a computer like that ;) > > Isn't that one of the ones for which he saves the power cord and dumpsters > the machine EVERY time he finds one? > Did someone say power cords??? I got a box of about 4 dozen if you need any. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 4 months

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Sysgen Omni-Bridge Floppy Controller

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Anyone got docs or at least jumper settings for an 8-bit Sysgen Omni-Bridge Floppy Controller? I just found one and it works (or at least it loads its BIOS on boot) and so I'd like to get it going. I'm gonna try to run it in an AT&T 6300. Thanks! Tarsi 210

24 years, 4 months

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Hp2100 software available. Where ?

by aek＠spies.com

> Next question: Where ? You probably aren't going to find a disc image that you can boot on SIMH in the near future. HP sold EACH program separately, and what is currently available are several thousand paper tape images that will require someone with DOS or RTE experence to sysgen. You will need the docs, too, which currently have been scanned, but haven't been cleaned up or pdf-ed and won't be available for at least a month.

24 years, 4 months

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Fluke 9010 Micro-System Troubleshooter ??

by aek＠spies.com

> Does anyone know where I could pick up/buy one of these pieces of test > equipment? I have several without pods (the expensive part)

24 years, 4 months

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Hp2100 software available. Where ?

by CAA007216＠mail.ono.es

Thanks. Do it exist some available copy of some operative OS for the HP2100 (in form of PaperTape, Virtual Disk or so) ? Greetings Sergio ----- Mensaje Original ----- Remitente: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org> Fecha: Viernes, Abril 26, 2002 1:50 pm Asunto: Re: Hp2100 software available. Where ? > I am building an archive at www.classiccmp.org/HP for hp software. > Note that > the "HP" in that url must be capitalized or you'll get a different > site. I > just started putting stuff there so there isn't a huge amount, but > it is > growing very rapidly thanks to Al's great hard work scanning > documents and > reading paper tapes. > > If there's any software you're looking for that you don't see > there, just > let me know. > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sergio Pedraja Cabo" <CAA007216(a)mail.ono.es> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 5:08 AM > Subject: Hp2100 software available. Where ? > > > > > > Hello everybody. I should like to probe the HP2100 simulator > available> under Bob Supnik's SIMH. Is there any software > repository available > > for this machine ? I know the Jeff Moffat's website programs only, > > but somebody spoke here some time ago about some other place where > > to get software for this machine. > > > > Greetings > > > > Sergio > > > > > > > > > > >

24 years, 4 months

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Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav en, CT]

by cdl＠proxima.ucsd.edu

> From: David Woyciesjes <DAW(a)yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > To: "'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav > en, CT] > Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:11:26 -0400 > Sender: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > > > From: Bill Pechter > > > > > Anyway, to my point... This is off-topic, so taking it off-list is > > > appropriate I believe... I have a Sun Ultra1 Creator. (170E, Open Boot > > 3.1, > > > 128 MB RAM, 4 GB Quantum, 1 GB Conner, floppy disk... old 19" Sun color > > > monitor, type 5c keyb, optical mouse w/proper silver pad!) Well, now > > that I > > > finally got the Creator framebuffer replaced, it's time to load Solaris. > > > Except that all the CD-ROMS I have aren't even seen by the console... > > And I > > > tried the sector size jumper both ways. > > > > > > -- > > > > try to describe the scsi bus and termination. > > do a probe-scsi and a probe-scsi-all... > > > > let me know what that does. I'm pretty sure that there is a Sun screwup in the Ultra1 boot ROM such that "probe-scsi" doesn't work right when "auto-boot" is enabled. auto-boot?=false carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

24 years, 4 months

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WTD: Datasheets for PMC Sierra modem chips

by philpem＠bigfoot.com

Hi, I've just been going through a load of old boards that I had occupying space and I'd like to put some of the components to good use. I've already located datasheets for a Motorola DSP56001FE27 digital signal processor I found (time to build an MP3 player!), but a few of the parts have turned up dead ends for data. The parts in question are Sierra Semiconductor (now PMC-Sierra) SC11011CV/ADA, SC11026CN and SC22201CN chips, used on what appears to be an old modem. I've had a look on FreeTradeZone (free? not bloody likely) and the datasheets have been locked (the chips are obsolete). Anyone got PDFs (or paper copies) of these datasheets? I'd like to get these chips doing something (other than taking up valuable space), but it's a bit diffiicult without the datasheets! Thanks. -- Phil. philpem(a)bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/

24 years, 4 months

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Some new finds and Some Wanted Items

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Thanks but I already have 2 LC550's in the collection. These 34 or so >are the one's I really need to make it complete. It started out as 103 >models but now because models I didn't know about but have picked over >the years it may end up over 150 different models. I will print the >list once the collection is done. Thanks for the offer. You are being a little more religious than I. I just want one of every major model (so Performa 475, LC 475 or Quadra 605, doesn't matter to me, since they are all the same model... also I'm not going after getting a 475,476,478 or other submodels). I am sure once I get one of every major model, I will then probably follow in your footsteps and try to get one of everything out there. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 4 months

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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > Christopher Smith wrote: > > I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that > > didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not > > fun) given the proper programs. > Fortran II could compile from paper tape on the IBM 1620. > The PDP-8 had I think a paper tape version of fortran too, > but not sure > what version, II or IV. ... but we were talking about the Tandy Color Computer, specifically. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 4 months

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Some new finds and Some Wanted Items

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Performa 466, 467, 550, 275,, 560, 577,578, 658 How specific are you to the titel stamped on the case? I can give you an LC 550, but not a "Performa" 550. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 4 months

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