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2708 EPROM progreammer - old magazines designs

by dm561＠torfree.net

------------Original Message: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:49:28 -0700 From: "Michael Holley" <swtpc6800 at comcast.net> Subject: 2708 EPROM progreammer - old magazines designs > I am thinking of building a programmer for the 2708 EPROM, that can also > read an EPROM and dump it to a serial port. > Here are the schematics and software for a MC6800 based design from 1977. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MicroWorks/B09_Index.htm Michael Holley -----------Reply: Michael: FYI, the same issue of KB (2/80) also contains instructions for mods to the SWTP MP-R programmer to burn 2708's. And also an article about adding an amp chip to make the AC-30 more reliable. You might want to add them to your excellent SWTP site. mike

19 years, 5 months

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2708 EPROM progreammer - old magazines designs

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

> I am thinking of building a programmer for the 2708 EPROM, that can also > read an EPROM and dump it to a serial port. > Here are the schematics and software for a MC6800 based design from 1977. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MicroWorks/B09_Index.htm Michael Holley

19 years, 5 months

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BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

I'm starting to collect some qbus equipment again and am trying to setup a system around a KDJ11-AA CPU. My current configuration is: BA23 enclosure KDJ11-AA (m8192) MSV11-QC (m7551 cf) DZQ11-M (m3106) RQDX3 (m7555) TQK50-AA (m7546) First, will it be possible to boot this configuration? Can I setup to start the KDJ11 in ODT mode and enter a bootstrap for the RQDX3 by hand? How long a program would I have to enter? Also, I've done a Google search but have been unable to find documentation on how to configure the DZQ11 module. I'd like to configure it so that I can use one of its ports as the console port for ODT. Is that possible? I'm planning on using a Maxtor XT-2190 190mb hard drive. If that won't work, I have a number of RD53 drives I can use instead. Is this a workable configuration or do I need a boot module like the MXV11? Thanks, David

19 years, 5 months

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BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration > From: David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:40:03 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> >>> I'm starting to collect some qbus equipment again and am trying >>> to setup a system around a KDJ11-AA CPU. >>> My current configuration is: >>> BA23 enclosure >>> KDJ11-AA (m8192) >>> MSV11-QC (m7551 cf) >>> DZQ11-M (m3106) >>> RQDX3 (m7555) >>> TQK50-AA (m7546) >>> First, will it be possible to boot this configuration? Can I setup >>> to start the KDJ11 in ODT mode and enter a bootstrap for the >>> RQDX3 by hand? How long a program would I have to enter? >> > >Jerome, > >Thanks for your detailed response. In fact, I'd like to thank >everyone on cctalk for the great advice I've received. Based on all >of your input, I've arranged the following change to my PDP-11 >configuration: > >BA23 enclosure >KDJ11-B CPU (includes console port and boot rom) (m8190) (thanks Dave!) >MSV11-QC 4mb memory (m7551 cf) >Sigma RQD11-EC ESDI controller >RQDX3 for RX50 (m7555) >TQK50-AA for TK50 (m7546 >DLV11-J (for extra serial ports) (thanks Julian!) >Possibly a Viking SCSI controller (for CD-ROM and maybe a hard drive) > >I have at least one working ESDI hard drive so that will be my boot >device. My real problem is removable media. Even though I have an >RQDX3 to control an RX50 drive, I don't have a working RX50 drive. >Same goes for the TK50. I have non-working versions of both drives >but nothing I can use to move software onto my system. Anyone have a >working RX50 and/or TK50 drive they can spare? A good substitute for RX50 is an RX33 (aka TEAC FD55GFR) or an FD55F setup as non1.2mb. RX50 drives are actually two platters but one head positioner and they are 96TPI like the mentioned FD55F or G. These work fine with RQDX2/3 as a RX50 substitute. I have one configured that way. Allison

19 years, 5 months

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2708 EPROM progreammer - old magazines designs

by john_a_s2004＠hotmail.com

Hi, I am thinking of building a programmer for the 2708 EPROM, that can also read an EPROM and dump it to a serial port. As 2708s are obsolete few moern programmers support them, apart from a few that cost many $100s. So I thought why not try and build one? I've found references to the following classic magazines, and I would be willing to pay a small fee for photocopies or scans of the articles: Program your next EROM in BASIC. Schematic for a 2708 erasable read only memory reader and programmer which uses parallel IO ports to set data and address. The software to drive the programmer is written in BASIC. Byte - March 1978 page 84 on (main article) Byte - April 1978 page 62 (Byte Bugs) How to program 2708 EPROM's using this circuit board and program. Byte - April 1980 page 198 on (main article) Byte - September 1980 page 321 (follow-on) A Simple 2708 EPROM Programmer ... For the Motorola D2 kit ... Frank W. Summers. Kilobaud - February 1980, page 138 (magazine is currently on eBay) #638 2708 EPROM programmer. Electronics Today International (ETI) - July 1978 Instead of money I can provide (or copy / scan articles) any of 24 issues of Byte from 1981 to 1997 (including 11 issues from 1986) which I don't want to keep. or I can photocopy / scan articles from nearly any copy of Practical Computing from 1978 to 1985 (which I do want to keep). If you have built your own design of 2708 programmer and want to share that would be great too. Thanks, John _________________________________________________________________ Match.com - Click Here To Find Singles In Your Area Today! http://msnuk.match.com/

19 years, 5 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 43, Issue 85

by doug＠stillhq.com

Subject: Re: 2708 EPROM progreammer - old magazines designs To: cctech at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <20070327233303.GA39659 at silme.pair.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John S wrote: > > As 2708s are obsolete few moern programmers support them, apart from a few > > that cost many $100s. So I thought why not try and build one? I've found > > references to the following classic magazines, and I would be willing to pay > > a small fee for photocopies or scans of the articles: > > > > Program your next EROM in BASIC. Schematic for a 2708 erasable read only > > memory reader and programmer which uses parallel IO ports to set data and > > address. The software to drive the programmer is written in BASIC. > > Byte - March 1978 page 84 on (main article) > > Byte - April 1978 page 62 (Byte Bugs) > I have a programmer designed by Steve Ciarcia from BYTE - It uses an 8051AH-Basic (The 8051 with basic embedded) as the controller - and still works a treat - to this day. - Standalone board, interface via serial. It was fun to see peoples faces when you shipped a ^C down the serial line, and dropped through to a READY prompt. I can find the doco for yo, but it is a high end solution to a simple problem. Alternately, I'm more than happy to read an eprom for you, and email contents - I'm in Oz though. Perhaps there is somebody in the US who could do the same. Doug

19 years, 5 months

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Nicolet NICE Z80 Hardware emulator

by doug＠stillhq.com

Hi Guys n Gals, Just a quick second request, Does anybody have a manual - or even a quick reference sheet - for the Nicolet NICE Z80 Hardware pod released in about 1980-1981. I just received one, and there was no manual. I've figured out some of the commands, as there are only 26 letters in the alphabet, but a photocopy or scan of the book, or a quick summary from somebody else, would be invaluable. Take care, Doug

19 years, 5 months

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AlphaStation 200/250 and 255 - ebay observations

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

AlphaStation 500's are less expensive, but be aware the memory is unusual. Form factor 168pin dimm, 5v, FPM. The machine has two banks, each requires 4 dimms per bank. I have not been able to find any of these dimms. The AS500/400 I currently have, has both banks filled with 8x64M dimms (512M), the way it was configured when I received it. Dan @ Butler, PA

19 years, 5 months

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Vintage Computer footage in "The Trap"

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> Message: 25 > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:49:28 -0700 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > > How many different systems has any of the UK contingent been able to > identify on the BBC 2 Adam Curtis series "The Trap"? He certainly > seems to like his tape drives! Though I did not see it myself, I've been told there was a shot of the one inch version of the ICT 1300 series magnetic tapes about 25 minutes into the first episode. They were Ampex decks, either TM1 or TM2, I can't remember which. The chap who told me has it on VHS which I am going to digitise after I see him in July. Roger.

19 years, 5 months

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Speed of text editors on 808x platform

by trixter＠oldskool.org

I spent the weekend obsessing over what the fastest editor I could find for a 4.77MHz 8088, DOS, CGA platform. The results, if anyone is interested, are here: http://www.oldskool.org/guides/texteditors No doubt I will get some scorn for knocking Brief and other venerable editors, but the truth is I have very specific needs: 1. Instant screen response to user input, and 2. a functional undo. That's it, really, and I was surprised how many text editors did not fit the bill. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

19 years, 5 months

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2708 EPROM progreammer - old magazines designs

by john_a_s2004＠hotmail.com

John_a_s at hotmail.com wrote >I've found references to the following classic magazines, and I would be >willing to pay a small fee >for photocopies or scans of the articles: Program your next EROM in BASIC. Schematic for a 2708 erasable read only memory reader and programmer which uses parallel IO ports to set data and address. The software to drive the programmer is written in BASIC. Byte - March 1978 page 84 on (main article) Byte - April 1978 page 62 (Byte Bugs) How to program 2708 EPROM's using this circuit board and program. Byte - April 1980 page 198 on (main article) Byte - September 1980 page 321 (follow-on) A Simple 2708 EPROM Programmer ... For the Motorola D2 kit ... Frank W. Summers. Kilobaud - February 1980, page 138 (magazine is currently on eBay) #638 2708 EPROM programmer. Electronics Today International (ETI) - July 1978 >Instead of money I can provide (or copy / scan articles) any of 24 issues >of Byte from 1981 to >1997 (including 11 issues from 1986) Apoloiges I should have written 'as well as sending money I can also provide copies / scans etc.' Steve Robertson (steerex at mindspring.com) wrote: >I recently bought a "Willem" programmer off Ebay Thanks, I've borrowed one of these in the past, and it worked fine with single voltage EPROMs (like 2764s) but most 2708s require 3 rails including -5V and -12V. Also the Willem has a limited programming voltage (unless you add an external PSU). Adam Goldman (adamg at pobox.com) wrote: >be aware that the Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar articles in Byte were also >published in book form OK, thanks for that. I've just found on comp.os.cpm that Steve's articles are also in his book 'Build your own Z80 computer'. I don't think these books will be in our local library, they tend to clear old old books to make way for new ones. I would welcome offers from anyone with the book versions also. Regards, John _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile. http://www.msn.txt4content.com/

19 years, 5 months

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2.11BSD source code browser and xref --> css and IE 6

by W.F.J.Mueller＠gsi.de

I got some feedback about problems with the css style file I use and IE 6. Due to an oversight three named colors not known to IE 6 were used, I fixed this. Now all text is at least visible. There is still a problem on some pages with IE 6 on the first code line (e.g. /usr/src/sys/h/errno.h). With firefox all looks fine, but I'll try to make it render on all browers. With best regards, Walter -- Dr. Walter F.J. M?ller Mail: W.F.J.Mueller at gsi.de GSI, Abteilung KP3 Phone: +49-6159-71-2766 D-64291 Darmstadt FAX: +49-6159-71-3762 URL: http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/

19 years, 5 months

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AlphaStation 200/250 and 255 - ebay observations

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

>From: Scott Quinn <compoobah at valleyimplants.com> > >>Jochen Kunz wrote > >>On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:09:51 -0500 >>"Dan Snyder" <ddsnyder at zoominternet.net> wrote: >> >>>Form factor 168pin dimm, 5v, FPM. The machine has two banks, each >>>requires 4 dimms per bank. I have not been able to find any of these >>>dimms. >>Hmmm. IIRC some PowerMacs used that type of memory too, as well as the >>Sun SPARCstation 4/5. In contrast: 3.3 V EDO DIMMs are quite common. > >The Mac memory is generally not ECC, and probably will not work. >SPARCstation 5 DIMMS max out at 32MB, so I'm not sure if it will be any >benefit even if it works (and knowing DIGITAL I'd not be too quick to rule >out something proprietary - look at the number of HP 72-pin memory modules >that look exactly like 36-bit SIMMS (HP/Apollo 400 series, HP 9000 PA-RISC >mid-'90s modules (both incompatible with each other as well)...) > > Hi There was a company here in California that had many DIMM and SIMM boards that they would build different memories for you. They'd just solder DRAM or whatever to the board you needed. I had them make a RAM board for my HP IIIsi. I don't recall the name but it was either in Milpitas or Fremont. Some searching on the web should turn them up. They were much cheaper than the same RAM cards from HP. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ i'm making a difference.?Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. Join Now. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im…

19 years, 5 months

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John Backus passes away...

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:33:54 -0700 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Subject: Re: John Backus passes away... > > Considering FORTRAN for what it was when it came out, it was pretty > remarkable. I recall an old ACM (was it SIGPLAN?) recollection of > one of the first users of 704(?) FORTRAN. What impressed me was that > this compiler-on-cards pointed out a syntax error with message of the > form: > > A COMPUTED GOTO REQUIRES A COMMA BETWEEN THE STATEMENT LIST AND > VARIABLE. E.G. GOTO (100,200,300),J I used Fortran 4 on the IBM 7094 at Imperial College London. I remember one day the compiler reported: FORMAT MISSPELLED ON LINE xxx FORMAT ASSUMED. I was used to syntax error messages by the dozen but this was the first time I had seen the compiler correct an error and run the job. Of course we are used to warnings now, but I think it was that one which got me interested enough in compilers to eventually get a job writing them. > At one point in time, given machines with different character sets > and word- and character sizes, FORTRAN was about the only way to > write a portable program. If the program involved, for instance, > text manipulation, one included as the first card of the data file > one punched with all of the characters of the alphabet to be used and > read it into an integer array using 80A1 format. If you stuck to floating point and small numbers but there were big problems with word length variations when using integers. > > Did any computer built after 1960 NOT have a FORTRAN implementation? Yes, my ICT1301 (155+ built from 1962 to 1965) had no Fortran compiler. But then the line printer did not have any sort of parentheses. Not () [] or {}. It had 1/4,1/2 and 3/4 though. I have a replacement print barrel with round brackets instead if the 1/4 and 3/4 symbols but I have not fitted it yet, and most 1300 series machines had the standard barrel. I seem to remember that some of the people who taught me to program considered Fortran to be too close to the 7094 instruction set, in particular they said the computed goto mapped directly onto a 7094 instruction and hence considered it to be not very universal, and to support it would be to assist IBM in its domination of the computer market. Not that I think that way, and of course it is Microsoft which now dominates the computer market, I haven't seen a new IBM machine in years. > IIRC, that was a big selling point for the PDP-8. > > There was a period in time where just about any serious programmer > had a copy of McCracken on their bookshelves. Maybe before my time (BSc Computer Science graduated 1974), but I think most serious programmers had a copy of Knuth vol 1. (not to open a thread on what defines a "real programmer", I expect that has been done to death on this list long before I joined it). > > Didn't Backus also participate in the Algol-60 effort? I don't know, but Algol 60 was defined using BNF. > > There were big sections of the CDC FTN compiler (prior to the > introduction of SYMPL) that were written in FORTRAN. One of the > biggest nightmares was the processor for allocating storage in COMMON > and EQUIVALENCE statements--a big mass of assigned GOTOs. Even after > I understood how it worked, I was afraid to touch it. On the subject of being afraid to touch code, I worked on a compiler written in a non recursive language (Coral 66, a real time language derived from Algol 60). It had a large data table which defined how to parse the language. The compiler had an array of integers which was really a stack, but instead of return addresses it had integers which referred to cases in a huge switch list. I was happy to change any of the code, but fortunately did not need to change the data table for a long long time, and when I did it was with EXTREME care and trepidation.

19 years, 5 months

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AlphaStation 200/250 and 255 - ebay observations

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

On 26/3/07 22:01, "Jochen Kunz" <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote: > On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:09:51 -0500 > "Dan Snyder" <ddsnyder at zoominternet.net> wrote:> >> Form factor 168pin dimm, 5v, FPM. The machine has two banks, each >> requires 4 dimms per bank. I have not been able to find any of these>> dimms. > Hmmm. IIRC some PowerMacs used that type of memory too, as well as the > Sun SPARCstation 4/5. In contrast: 3.3 V EDO DIMMs are quite common. I've also read the PowerMAC 5v dimms and some of the Sun dimms were compatible, I am a bit chicken to experiment as my AS500/400, it is still in use.. I did verify the 5v spec by looking at a spare AS500/266 motherboard's dimm sockets with a magnifying glass, clearly marked on the center notch it is marked "5.0v", I did not compare the other notch locations to verify EDO/FPM or otherwise. Dan

19 years, 5 months

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Computer Automation collection.

by hamren＠sdu.se

Hi, Jules, Yes, please take some more photos of your Alpha-16 , and get and part numbers that you can see. Let's continue off list, and maybe summarize when we are done. Kind regards /Lars Hamr?n ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lars Hamr?n Tel...: +46( 46)189090 Svensk Datorutveckling Mobile: +46(705)189090 Vadm?llan 211 e-mail: hamren at sdu.se S-225 94 Lund WWW...: www.sdu.se Sweden

19 years, 5 months

2
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AlphaStation 200/250 and 255 - ebay observations

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> Jochen Kunz wrote > On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:09:51 -0500 > "Dan Snyder" <ddsnyder at zoominternet.net> wrote: > >> Form factor 168pin dimm, 5v, FPM. The machine has two banks, each >> requires 4 dimms per bank. I have not been able to find any of these >> dimms. > Hmmm. IIRC some PowerMacs used that type of memory too, as well as the > Sun SPARCstation 4/5. In contrast: 3.3 V EDO DIMMs are quite common. The Mac memory is generally not ECC, and probably will not work. SPARCstation 5 DIMMS max out at 32MB, so I'm not sure if it will be any benefit even if it works (and knowing DIGITAL I'd not be too quick to rule out something proprietary - look at the number of HP 72-pin memory modules that look exactly like 36-bit SIMMS (HP/Apollo 400 series, HP 9000 PA-RISC mid-'90s modules (both incompatible with each other as well)...)

19 years, 5 months

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2708 EPROM progreammer - old magazines designs

by adamg＠pobox.com

John S wrote: > As 2708s are obsolete few moern programmers support them, apart from a few > that cost many $100s. So I thought why not try and build one? I've found > references to the following classic magazines, and I would be willing to pay > a small fee for photocopies or scans of the articles: > > Program your next EROM in BASIC. Schematic for a 2708 erasable read only > memory reader and programmer which uses parallel IO ports to set data and > address. The software to drive the programmer is written in BASIC. > Byte - March 1978 page 84 on (main article) > Byte - April 1978 page 62 (Byte Bugs) Someone will probably send you scans, but if not, be aware that the Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar articles in Byte were also published in book form. "Program your next EROM in BASIC" is in Volume 1. Your local public library might have a copy, if they're not too ardent about throwing things away. -- Adam

19 years, 5 months

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BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration > From: David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:29:38 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> A good substitute for RX50 is an RX33 (aka TEAC FD55GFR) or an FD55F >> setup as non1.2mb. RX50 drives are actually two platters but one head >> positioner and they are 96TPI like the mentioned FD55F or G. These >> work >> fine with RQDX2/3 as a RX50 substitute. I have one configured that >> way. > >Allison, > >Thanks for your suggestion. I amend my previous request. Does anyone >have a Teac FD55GFR that they can spare? :-) > >Actually, I have one myself but it is installed in a DECmate III+ >machine that I didn't want to cannibalize. I guess I could remove it >temporarily to install software on my PDP-11 and then replace it >later. But, if anyone has either an RX33 (FD55GFR) or an RX50 they >can spare, please let me know what you would want in return. > >Thanks, >David I can give you one of each if you like. Allison

19 years, 5 months

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Dec TU81 tape drive issues

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

After cleaning and checking it out, I fired up my newly acquired Dec TU81 tape drive today. It gave an error code of E56 on the front panel. I tried clearing the error, and loading up a reel of tape and hitting the Load switch. It makes a whirring noise, and the take-up reel turns a small amount, then it shuts off - the Logic Off light lit. So... looking in the manual on bitsavers, it looks like E56 is a servo control sort of error. Before I start tearing into this drive in what may be a dead end at a bad motor, I figured I'd ask the experts here - Am I looking at a bad servo, or is this some known failing capacitor/regulator/fuse sort of a problem? Thanks! -Ian

19 years, 5 months

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Archival plotting on mylar

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

I was researching how best to plot out a map or two on my HP Draftmaster II, when I ran across a page about plots and storing them for decades as surveyors are required to do... http://www.aocweb.org/surveyors/archival.htm It got me to thinking about my own project - essentially a map on a light box (there's more to it, but that's all the map is about). I was thinking of plotting on mylar, but I was unable to find any HP plotter pens with permanent ink for anything other than paper. Has anyone on the list here had to do any archival plots for surveying? I'm sure that whatever products they are using would be more than sufficient for my purposes. Thanks for any pointers, -ethan

19 years, 5 months

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Mostek MK3881 PIO controller manual

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Does anyone know if the above is identical in spec to the "official" Zilog PIO chip? The manual's dated November 1976 and stamped as preliminary, which is a little unsettling :) I want to do some messing around with a Z80 CPU and PIO, and having a physical paper reference to hand would sure be useful - I'm just not sure if I'm going to shoot myself in the foot using this particular one! I should go and google for Zilog / Z80 history I suppose to see where Mostek fit into things - I've got a rather thick Mostek UK Z80 programming manual (V2.0) too which would also make a useful reference, assuming it's sound for all Z80 chips regardless of source... cheers Jules

19 years, 5 months

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2.11BSD source code browser and xref

by W.F.J.Mueller＠gsi.de

Gordon JC Pearce gordon at gjcp.net wrote: >> Since none of the existing tools seemed to do what I wanted, I wrote >> a perl script generating such a html'ized version of the source code. > > This is very very cool. > > The /bin/sh code is a bit of a horror, isn't it? I bet someone can tell > a funny story about that one... > > Gordon Indeed there is 'C' and 'Bourne-C', used in sh and adb, see the definitions listed after http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/bin/sh/mac.h.html#n:12 http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/bin/adb/defs.h.html#n:… Some of this is already handled in the parser, but there is clearly room for improvement. By the way: - point to a { } ( ) [ ] and a popup will tell you were the matching parenthesis is, it it is in a different line. Click on it, and you get moved to the matching end. In 'Bourne-C', IF and FI work this way. - point to a parameter-less macro, and a popup will tell you the definition if the string is short. With best regards, Walter -- Dr. Walter F.J. M?ller Mail: W.F.J.Mueller at gsi.de GSI, Abteilung KP3 Phone: +49-6159-71-2766 D-64291 Darmstadt FAX: +49-6159-71-3762 URL: http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/

19 years, 5 months

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2.11BSD source code browser and xref

by W.F.J.Mueller＠gsi.de

Ethan Dicks ethan.dicks at gmail.com wrote: >> Hope you enjoy it. Comments, suggestion ect are very welcome. > I had one tiny suggestion from what I browsed - when parsing out the > callers of functions, it might look nicer to not point out that > 'main()' is never called, since, technically, it _is_ called by the > startup code stuck on a binary by the compiler, and since it's defacto > entry-point into the code anyway. Good point, _main deserves indeed extra treatment. The startup code is by the way in http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/lib/libc/pdp/csu/crt0.… with the call to _main in line 124. > That's about all I can come up with except to wish that when the tool > is in better shape that someone has the time to run 2.9BSD sources > through the same treatment (2.9BSD still runs on non-Split-I&D > machines like those equipped with an F-11 chip - 11/23, 11/24, > Pro350). > > -ethan This is indeed the intention. The rules to locate include files, to link globals, or to decide what is kernel, lib, or user, is in a configuration file. To set this up for 2.9 BSD or UNIX V7 and V6 should not be difficult, in particular if one starts with the more complex case and goes back in history. With best regards, Walter -- Dr. Walter F.J. M?ller Mail: W.F.J.Mueller at gsi.de GSI, Abteilung KP3 Phone: +49-6159-71-2766 D-64291 Darmstadt FAX: +49-6159-71-3762 URL: http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/

19 years, 5 months

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Speed of text editors on 808x platform

by sdc695＠yahoo.com

All this talk of editors on PCs got me to thinking of my favorite: PC-EDT It was a clone of the EDT used under RSX-11(-M). Pretty faithful as well. It had problems with the keypad, being that the '+' took up two key spaces (as opposed to the standard VT-100 keypad), but overall it was nice. It even worked on old XT's and scrolled pretty fast. If you happened to do large Cut/Pastes it took some time as it swapped out the buffers to temp disk files. I still use the editor to this day after first using it in the 80's. The old keypad layout is pretty ingrained in my mind. EDT (on RSX-11) was my first screen editor, so I guess you get used to your 'first'. Unfortunately, vi seems everywhere, and as everyone knows knowledge of vi is almost mandatory for any person using Unix (Linux) (even today). Thankfully I haven't succumbed to emacs (and hopefully never will, even as the spell checker wants to capitalize the first letter!). -- Tom Watson tsw at johana.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail

19 years, 5 months

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OT: Paxton Hoag on TV

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I was rather surprised to see Paxton on the news this last weekend. He was in a spot on one of the local stations as a local historian talking about a landslide that they're having problems with in his part of the state. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

19 years, 5 months

2
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2.11BSD source code browser and xref

by W.F.J.Mueller＠gsi.de

When searching lately a lot through the UNIX 2.11bsd source code I wanted many times a hyperlinked and cross referenced rendition of the sources, much like doxygen or lxr does it. For kernel, lib and user code, for c and assembler. Since none of the existing tools seemed to do what I wanted, I wrote a perl script generating such a html'ized version of the source code. The tool far from finished, but might already be useful. For a tour start for example with the code of the 'cp' command http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/bin/cp.c.html and click along. The links connect C and asm code, the user land code, libc and kernel code. Look to the readdir() call in line 197, a click gets you into the libc module implementing readdir(). A further click on read() into the assembler stub doing the system call, and a click on the kernel handler listed there gets you into the kernel source. Here the links of the tour http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/bin/cp.c.html#n:197 http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/lib/libc/gen/readdir.c… http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/lib/libc/pdp/sys/__rea… http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/sys/sys/sys_generic.c.… The background color tells you in which territory you are in magenta boot and standalone code red kernel orange network code (running in supervisor) green libraries blue user level code If you want a kernel tour, start at http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/sys/sys/init_main.c.ht… Clicking on a symbol definition (or the X in the sidebar) gets you to the cross referencing info's. To see for example who is using setjmp see http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/lib/libc/pdp/gen/setjm… or who is including nlist.h see http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/include/nlist.h.html#xref:… As said, it's beta stage, the style sheet is still the debug version, not all links end where they should, not all is parsed as it should. Hope you enjoy it. Comments, suggestion ect are very welcome. With best regards, Walter -- Dr. Walter F.J. M?ller Mail: W.F.J.Mueller at gsi.de GSI, Abteilung KP3 Phone: +49-6159-71-2766 D-64291 Darmstadt FAX: +49-6159-71-3762 URL: http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/

19 years, 5 months

3
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pretty much OT: acoustic coupling

by rdawson16＠hotmail.com

We will get several comments after this post... I hope y'all will correct me. The acoustic coupler on the old teletype was 1200 baud, 10 characters per sec. to match the machine. It was FSK (Frequency Shift Keying) with two tones 1200hz and 2400hz for 0 and one. Depending on the # of start, stop bits in the serial stream and parity baud .NE. bytes/sec. Phone lines have a 2500hz bandwidth, and today's modems use QAM (Quadrature Amplitude Modulation). You can visualize this if you think of a signal as a rotating vector on an xy grid - say a constant sine at constant amplitude would represent a circle. put 4 points uniformly on the circle and XY grid, and you have 4 QAM. 16 points (rectangular array, not on the unit circle), 16-QAM etc. Each point represents 2 bits in 4-QAM (dibits), and 4 bits in 16-QAM. this is called the signal constellation. To further encode the signal and reduce errors, they use techniques called viterbi and trellis encoding, these limit the accepted signal transition >from one dibit, qbit to another. In addition, modern modems train the channel. That's the white noise you hear at the beginning of the dialup - both ends are doing equalization for this connection. If errors occur, they fall back to lower data rates and retrain. Our 56K modems never get there here in the US, it is an FCC limit, and the reasons I am not sure. These basic principles above also apply to cell/radio transmission. There are other goodies they can throw into the algorithms to reduce multipath reflection (ghosts, as in TV) due to buildings objects, aircraft. to conclude, Ill bet with a homemade cell phone acoustic coupler to -> RJ-45 jack interface you could get same performance as dialup, near 56K. Needed: Sponge/muffs to adapt the cell handset electrostatic mic/speaker some op amp stuff to get the signals leveled resolve the dial-in and dial-out issues to fool the PC for dial tone and auto answer (and interface to the cell keypad to answer and send) Randy >From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> >To: talk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: pretty much OT: acoustic coupling >Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:39:38 -0700 (PDT) > >my application anyway. What is the typical maximum >speed of such a device, be it antiquated (I actually >used to have one of the old Radio Shack units), or >home-brewed. > And lookee, here's what I had: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/RADIO-SHACK-ACOUSTIC-COUPLER-MODEM- >TRS-80-AC-3_W0QQitemZ180098721480QQcategoryZ80229QQss >PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > In fact, that's an acoustic modem. What I'd like to >implement is a "bridge" if you will between a modem >and a cellular device that would allow connection to >the internet. Ingenious, no? ;) > Please, no one tell me about software and such that's >presently available on the market. I'm aware of it, >own 99% of it, and I'll say here and now it's flakey >at best. > The technology is antiquated enough, albeit not the >application. O woe is me :( > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love >(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 _________________________________________________________________ 5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free quotes - *Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&searc…

19 years, 5 months

16
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Mostek MK3881 PIO controller manual

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

Ahh, i won the book Z80 Workshop Manual from ebay the other week. It mentions UART and PIO I/O chips on the back cover. Mine is a reprint from 1986 and was originally printed in 1983. - Andrew B (via mobile phone) --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Does anyone know if the above is identical in spec to the "official" Zilog PIO > chip? The manual's dated November 1976 and stamped as preliminary, which is > a little unsettling :) > > I want to do some messing around with a Z80 CPU and PIO, and having a physical > paper reference to hand would sure be useful - I'm just not sure if I'm going > to shoot myself in the foot using this particular one! > > I should go and google for Zilog / Z80 history I suppose to see where Mostek > fit into things - I've got a rather thick Mostek UK Z80 programming manual > (V2.0) too which would also make a useful reference, assuming it's sound for > all Z80 chips regardless of source... > > cheers > > Jules

19 years, 5 months

2
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Don Maslin/Archiving system software (was: ftp archives disappearing?)

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jules Richardson wrote: For sure. But besides that, I see the web aspect purely as the most convenient method to allow users to do the searching. There's nothing to stop a search result pointing to a FTP site, physical mailing address to which to send your pre-paid envelope in order to receive a CD of data back etc. :) In other words, the actual data retrieval side doesn't *have* to be web-based at all (although realistically in most cases it probably would be). As you say, recording the date in the metadata is the way to go anyway! Billy: This brings in several points that should be discussed re: what is an archive. If I send manuals to be scanned and put on a web site, is that breaking the law? Here returns all the arguments about copyright law that have ensnarled this list before. Generally the answer is yes. But as one member responded, many copyright owners give a "wink and a nod" without officially blessing the activity. Of course many other IP owners have gone out of business and there may or may not be a new rights owner. Then comes the discussion of the manuals themselves. Many were distributed in thousands of copies. They fall under fair use laws. But some stuff from this list is detailed internal documents, such as software source listings, software maintenance documents, etc. This is a much more iffy arena. There might still be perceived value to this IP. In a few cases, and Control Data is one of them, IP (especially software) was sold and the new owner continues to protect his investment. If we want to play and share old CDC software, we have to ask for permission. To be on the good side of the new owner, we play by his rules. And he makes no effort to preserve the older unsaleable software. So the dilemma is how to save all this old software for the future? The method a few of us use is to make copies, put them in private archives and specifically prevent them from being accessed on the web. There may a very small private distribution to individuals known to have an interest in the software and willing to follow the owner's rules. This solves the preservation problem - multiple copies are saved. And it prevents the IP owner coming down like a ton of bricks. So now we have a young Turk who is going to save everything and distribute to whoever he wants. He ignores the narrow line that is being walked by the current public archives and even proposes we engage in illegal activities to help his acquisition yen. There doesn't seem to be any understanding that not everyone wants wide distribution of the software archives. Nor does he understand that what he wants to do could set off the wrath of IP owners against the current public archives. We survive at the whim of these IP owners. And many of them, like the RIAA, are in a bad temper. What a few of us are doing is ensuring multiple copies are archived without shouting it to the world. It achieves the goals of a lasting archive. And it keeps the Eye of Sauron away from us. And if copies are not available to leeches, too bad. Billy

19 years, 5 months

9
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List very slow?

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Is there a reason the list is so slow right now? It's taking an hour or better for messages to show up. This was sent at 10:04am Pacific. Zane

19 years, 5 months

5
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PDP11 NSC RAM questions

by rescue＠hawkmountain.net

I've purchased a memory board for PDP11. It appears to be a National Semiconductor Q-BUS memory card. It has 980110014-001 on it. I find (currently) no markings saying like NS23D, NS23M, NS23S, NS23E, etc.... It is populated with MMC3764N-15 chips. There are 144 chips total. I'm still a newbie on 11s... but, if my internet searches are correct those chips are 64k x 1 ram modules. So it takes 8 of them to make 64 kilobytes. Assuming there is parity, 144/9 make 16 sets of 9 chips each with 64 kilobytes + 1 parity bit per byte (9th chip). This math makes it out to me a 1MB module. Can anyone confirm that is what it is ? I bought it as a 4MB module. Also, I believe this came out of an 11/73. Will this work in an 11/83, and if so, does it operate as PMI memory ? Thanks in advance from all you PDP11 gurus out there. And... if this isn't PMI memory, and if is only a 1MB board, would anyone want to take in in trade towards a M8637-EF (MSV11-JE) to go along with the existing MSV11-JE I have. -- Curt

19 years, 5 months

2
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OS/400 V3R2 License Keys for hobbyist use

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Doc wrote > IBM's idea of a hobbyist license is $15,000 a shot. Just out of curiosity, how does one generally learn these business systems? For MVS we have Hercules, for VMS there's the hobbyist program (and either cheap VAXen/Alphas or emulators), but for MPE/iX and i5/OS-OS/400 there's nothing. Is it similar to accordion repair where 2 schools turn out our entire national supply? Or do businesses keep a couple of old machines in the back for people to learn on?

19 years, 5 months

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stuff arrived, some available

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

The stuff below just arrived today. The items marked with "*" I am keeping, the rest is available if anyone wants them. * Unopened box syncom platinum soft sector 8" diskettes (10) "Box" style binder "MicroPDP-11 Hardware Information" (2 manuals, Owners manual and Technical manual). Appears to be for BA123 type systems. * BA11-K mounting box users manual * DZ11 asynchronous multiplexor technical manual * Microsystems CP/M Programmers (quick) reference guide * TRS-80 Computer Reference Handbook (basic & command ref. for I, II, II, 4, 100, MC-10 and coco) RT-11 pocket guide * RSX11-M mini reference RT11 mini reference manual PDP11 processor handbook (pdp11 04/24/34a/44/70 1981) IMS International Ultima Series video display terminal user manual (2 copies) IMS International Ultima Series ultima II video display terminal user manual Digital Research Inc. CP/M "R" 2.2 Update (setup disk, and disk's 1,2,3 {5.25, soft sector}) A box containing a large number of DEC ribbon cables, most of which I don't know what they are for. There is one BC11A-10 that I will probably keep. If anyone wants the items not marked "*", let me know. Total cost (including shipping) is 1.25 times actual shipping costs. Jay West

19 years, 5 months

1
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Computer Automation collection.

by hamren＠sdu.se

Hi, Time to introduce myself. My name is Lars Hamr?n, and I live in Sweden. My very first computer was a 16-bit Computer Automation Alpha LSI-2, that at first I programmed in Basic, and them in assembly. Some time ago I decided that, for sentimental reasons, I wanted an LSI-2, but soon discovered that CA was virtually forgotten and that very little remained. My scope was therefore expanded to try to collect and save as my of CA:s computer side as possible. (CA also made automatid test equipment). With a little luck, a lot of e-mails and phone calls, and a lot of help from other people, some of whom are active on this list (thank you!), I have been able to collect more than I initially hoped for, but a lot is of course still missing. There is a web site dedicated to the project at http://www.sdu.se/computer-automation-museum/ It details parts of the collection. I would very much like to get in contact with anyone who has information on these machines, or who has first-, second- third- or eve fourth-hand experience with these machines, or may know of someone who has. They are really becoming very rare, so *ANY* help and information is likely to be of value. Kind regards /Lars Hamr?n ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lars Hamr?n Tel...: +46( 46)189090 Svensk Datorutveckling Mobile: +46(705)189090 Vadm?llan 211 e-mail: hamren at sdu.se S-225 94 Lund WWW...: www.sdu.se Sweden

19 years, 5 months

2
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Modems and Baud and Bits, Oh My...

by sdc695＠yahoo.com

Several people have been talking about modems and the like, and even acoustic couplers. Here are some points: The 103 Modem frequencies are: 1070/1270 and 2025/2225 ('mark' is the higher frequency). One group is used in each direction. As I remember it the high group was used as transmit on the answer side, as the "answer tone" (one of the high frequencies) was one that tripped the echo suppressors to "off" so they wouldn't interfere with the transmission of the data. The 103 modem has a 200 Hz shift (difference between mark and space) and doesn't like much above twice the shift frequency in data rate (that is why things changed after 300 bps). Some people were lucky (real lucky if you ask me) to get 450 bps out of the thing. Acoustic couplers go WAY back. In the 60's (some might think this is ancient history) it wasn't good to attach things directly to the phone line (people did it any way, but I digress). So, many schemes were used to couple things to the phone line. One of the most successful vendors was Anderson Jacobson. Tymshare (yeah, the guys with the SDS 940's) also developed a coupler. Their original one used magnetic coupling for the receive side as is was less prone to noise. Since you had the coupler near the ASR-33 you can imagine the noise. Magnetic coupling is still used in "hearing aid compatible" telephones (you will see it on pay phones with blue strain reliefs on the handset cord). At higher speeds several standards abounded. Bell "202" modems used a single FSK carrier with a wide shift to accommodate 1200 bps in ONE direction. The standard (Bell Standard) provided for a 5 bps back channel (so you could tell the other guy to "turn the line around"). Others expanded on the back channel to make it an FSK pair (around 300 Hz as I remember) that would about 150 bps. If you were using a CRT terminal, this was OK since you could hardly type that fast, and having the (big computer like pdp-10, or others) respond back at 1200 bps seemed like lightening fast. The next standard (The phone company was allowing direct connections by then) was 1200 full duplex. The first one was Vadic 3400, followed by Bell 212. While similar, they had opposite answer/originate pairs and were not compatible. These modems took in the 1200 async data and converted it to a synchronous stream that was sent over the carrier. What was nice is that if you used the modem and connected to a "low speed" (Bell 103 type) modem, it used those frequencies (like a second modem). Later developments raised the speed up to 33k bps full duplex using lots of computing power in the modem (which got cheaper to do). with various "V.xxx" standards. All of this finished up with 56k modems which was the limit for a DS0 channel (8 bits, less one for signalling and 8k samples per second). Just remember, programming on an ASR33 is a VERY humbling experience. Everyone should try it for one project just to get it. Unfortunately, comments get sacrificed but you do make up for it in the scribbles on the real paper. -- Tom Watson tsw at johana.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL

19 years, 5 months

1
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CTX Panoview 630 power supply pinout?

by RAY_ALLAN＠solectron.co.uk

Hi Ethan, did you manage to find the power supply info you requested for the Panoview 630, as I have just aquired one but without the power supply. Ray

19 years, 5 months

2
1
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Dulmont Magnum

by andrew＠taswegian.com

Some pictures of my Dulmont Magnum are available at http://www.taswegian.com/dulmont.zip (about 18MB download). There don't seem to be too many pictures of this around, so thought I'd post these for those interested. Cheers A

19 years, 5 months

1
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OS/400 V3R2 License Keys for hobbyist use

by mbbrutman-cctalk＠brutman.com

I have a friend who has an older AS/400 in his personal collection of computers. (It is in the collection because the AS/400 is unique enough to be interesting.) He doesn't know a lot about it but he did manage to get a console, wire it correctly, and get to the OS/400 command line. To do anything remotely interesting with the machine he needs to have a development environment. I am figuring green screen COBOL, C and RPG are good enough. Does anybody know how to engage IBM to find out if license keys are available for home/hobbyist use? (Other manufacturers like DEC did this for their 'bigger' iron.) Mike PS: I work for IBM and I have code in every release of the AS/400 from V3R6 on up, and even I don't know where to go for this one ...

19 years, 5 months

7
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One answer to "Wot duzzit do?" - OS/8 Adventure V2.0.

by rick＠rickmurphy.net

In what is the longest time *I* am aware of between Version 1.0 and Version 2.0 of a program (1979-2007), I'm happy to announce an updated version (2.0) of Adventure for your OS/8 system. (OK, I could have delayed this a couple of years and made it 30 years between releases..) Thanks to a list member that supplied me with the DECUS sources and Bob Supnik's RT-11 Adventure source, as well as a few helpful OS/8 FORTRAN libraries on the Internet, I've managed to not only recover the program source, but also make several improvements in the way it works. Unfortunately, it's still a memory hog that needs 32KW to run. I'm making source and binary floppies in SIMH-format, a zip file with all sources, and a web page with the individual source files available. http://www.rickmurphy.net/adventure.html has pointers to the SIMH floppy images, sources, etc. Happy exploring! -Rick

19 years, 5 months

5
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11/45 lower regulator board

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Hey, that thing is hard to get to! Someone tightened down the screws in the back that hold the regulator in place, so after undoing the two screws in front it still won't slide out. Is there a trick to this? Do I have to take the whole supply out? Can't get a screw driver in there with the upper H742 in place :\ Suggestions appreciated :) Jay

19 years, 5 months

2
3
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some old stuff

by andrew＠taswegian.com

Some pictures of my "data numerics DL-8A" are available in a zip file at http://www.taswegian.com/datanumerics.zip Cheers A _____ From: Andrew Davie [mailto:andrew at taswegian.com] Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 3:36 PM To: 'cctalk at classiccmp.org' Subject: some old stuff Hey all I've been in and out of the classic computer collecting 'circles' over the past decade and a half, but these days don't have much time to play with the old toys. I thought I'd divest myself of some of the items that I've been collecting and though I wasn't sure if it were appropriate to advertise 'for sale' on the list, it's probably OK to let people know that I have these items and that I'll be happy to provide pictures and/or information for historical reasons. If you are interested in trade/sale discussion please contact me privately (andrew - at - taswegian.com). General questions about functionality/history can go to the list. I have a DataNumerics DL-8A. This is possibly the only one still alive, certainly the only one I've heard of in a decade+ in collectors' hands. It's a front-panel machine very much like an early Altair - lots of blinking lights. Very nice visuals, and appears to work perfectly - I fire it up every year or so. Inside it's an 8080, I think - haven't had it open for a while. Totally wirewrapped, quite neatly made. and with a low serial number in the 20s, from memory. I'll be happy to do images and/or provide additional information as requested. I also have a Dulmont Magnum with original manual. This is one of the very first laptops, comes with a fold-up 4-line LCD display. I haven't had this one working, nor have I tried. I'd be guessing to say it was functional, but there are no obvious issues like battery damage, etc. Weighs a ton, but for its day it was no doubt a portable marvel. I do have an extensive collection of early Soviet calculators and handheld computers. I collected most of these in the mid to late '90s when building my site Museum of Soviet Calculators - http://www.taswegian.com/MOSCOW/soviet.html . The collection includes a prototype or two, including one of the only two known MK-98 machines. The collection as a whole (100 machines?), but not individually is available for trade/sale. Finally, I have a very interesting homebrew machine built by a fairly well known Australian electrical wizard of the '70s and '80s, who published many articles in the aussie electronics magazines. This particular machine was a Signetics 2650 machine, but configured to run 8080 code (and hence, CP/M) through a software emulator. The whole machine, including the video card, was designed and built by the one guy and can be considered historical and one-of-a-kind. That's about it, really. If anyone would like pictures and/or further information on these just ask. Cheers A

19 years, 5 months

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pretty much OT: acoustic coupling

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

my application anyway. What is the typical maximum speed of such a device, be it antiquated (I actually used to have one of the old Radio Shack units), or home-brewed. And lookee, here's what I had: http://cgi.ebay.com/RADIO-SHACK-ACOUSTIC-COUPLER-MODEM- TRS-80-AC-3_W0QQitemZ180098721480QQcategoryZ80229QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem In fact, that's an acoustic modem. What I'd like to implement is a "bridge" if you will between a modem and a cellular device that would allow connection to the internet. Ingenious, no? ;) Please, no one tell me about software and such that's presently available on the market. I'm aware of it, own 99% of it, and I'll say here and now it's flakey at best. The technology is antiquated enough, albeit not the application. O woe is me :( ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

19 years, 5 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 43, Issue 79

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:43:45 -0500 From: Richard Lynch <richardlynch3 at tx.rr.com> Subject: Re: baud modifier <snip> Now I just need to convert the current loop on my ASR-33 to RS-232 so I can try it out. Richard Lynch ---------------------- Lots of ways of doing that; here's a simple one (p.4): http://www.edn.com/archives/1998/080398/pdf/16di.pdf mike

19 years, 5 months

2
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AlphaStation 200/250 and 255 - ebay observations

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

Maybe some can answer this question. Every (it seems) AlphaStation 200/250/255 that appears on ebay ends up selling for more than what I *think* is a reasonable price. Maybe maintenance org's buying spares? Are they used by some telecoms? I used to have the 255's as Operator interface displays for process monitor/control. They used DUnix 4.0E and some apps from Siemens. I was able to replace them with DS10's with little effort. I can maybe see why a DS10 would go for a high price, but not the 200/250/255. AlphaStation 200 - mostly Alpha cpus @166 or 233MHz AlphaStation 250 - Alpha cpu @266MHz AlphaStation 255 - Alpha cpu @233/266/300MHz They were and are not _that_ fast and memory expansion is limited. I realize at the time (1995-1998) time frame these machines were very fast, but this is 2007, you could purchase a used DS10 or DS20 and gain alot of power for less money. Clue me in please, Dan @ Butler, PA

19 years, 5 months

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FYI - History of Systems Engineering Laboratories, Inc. [SEL]

by ragooman＠comcast.net

FYI I just updated the webpage with the history of the Systems Engineering Laboratories, Inc. [SEL], this was the first company I started working for. There were alot of sporadic info spread across too many webpages online so I started to consolidate this into one place. I just received alot of back history from one of the old guys that worked there. So far, there's some interesting stories and links in there. Some pages still need to fill up with some more info, but it's a start. History of Systems Engineering Laboratories, Inc. [SEL] http://ragooman.home.comcast.net/computers_mini.html =Dan

19 years, 5 months

1
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ModComp / Diablo project

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

Anyone else notice this one: http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/Auction10925/lotimagesEVER0205/2237107.JPG Looks like an interesting ModComp project, complete with Diablo? disk drives.

19 years, 5 months

5
5
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OS/2 Warp 4 disk image needed

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I?m trying to resurrect a copy of OS/2 Warp 4 and I seem to have a bad disk image. Does anyone have an image of Disk 17 that they can send me? Also, does anyone know how many floppy disks Warp 4 contains? I?m afraid that the damaged archive is truncated so I don?t know how many images I might have had in it. Thanks. Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp

19 years, 5 months

3
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AlphaStation 200/250 and 255 - ebay observations

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

I would agree, with Zane in that I would prefer an XP1000 @667Mhz to use every day. The apps I have maintained have migrated easily from and AS200 in 1995 to the XP1000 without issues, VMS 6.2 to 7.3. Maybe it is easier to do like kind replacement, you know all ports the same. The AS200/233 go for at time over $300 US. Once in a while an AS300 (AS250) can be found for less, depends on haw the ebay listing is worded. Dan @ Butler, PA

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Anyone have IBM Diagnostics diskette?

by ngriffis＠bellsouth.net

Dear Sirs, Would you please let me know your best guess wholesale and retail values of the following IBM Manuals and disks: IBM 1.1 DOS #6024001 IBM 2.00 DOS #6024061 IBM 2.02 Guide to Operations #6025000 IBM BASIC #6025010 Thank you for any help you can give me in valuing these items, Nick Griffis ngriffis at bellsouth.net

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

more 11/45 fun

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I was letting the 11/45 instruction excerciser run in a loop just to work the machine while I was digging through the RL02 prints to find all the signals going to the fault lite. Looked over at the machine and it had locked up after running fine for about 5 hours. Wonderful. I figured one of my cpu boards was probably marginal and was preparing to swap boards and then I could swear I heard Tony yelling at me from across the pond. So I got out the scope and started checking the backplane power testpoints. Sure enough, E16B2 and E21B2 are both (basically) zero, and they were NOT that way before when I had a problem with the top 742 supply. Looking through the prints shows they should have been at -15v and come from the bottom 742 built in regulator. ARGH! So now it's the same board in the bottom supply that failed in the top supply a week or two ago. Glad I ordered some extra parts from mouser when the last one died. Further thought and I realized that slots 16 and 21 are for the mos/bipolar memory controllers. I don't have mos/bipolar memory. So I was wondering what else comes off that regulator board on the bottom 742. From recent memory I believe I recall the LTC comes from there. But LTC being fried wouldn't cause the cpu to fail to come up would it? And since I'm not actually using mos/bipolar I'm left wondering what else is coming off that board. AC lo or DC lo signal perhaps? I seem to remember that something odd was done to the regulator board in that lower 742 to make the output -15v instead of 15v like the top 742. In any case, I obviously SHOULD fix the regulator in the bottom 742 so I get that -15v back but I am left curious as to if that is what is causing the cpu to suddenly no longer come up and run. Am I on the right track here? Jay

19 years, 5 months

2
1
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simple question about turning off/on a regulator.

by jpero＠sympatico.ca

Fixing FE1250 Nec (actually two!), 22" monitor monsters. Have the bulletin on fix these problems and problem is that I cannot get this part easily here. Switchable off and on adjustable regulator set for 3.3V in 5 pin SMD flat pack with heatsink tab. The part number PQ20WZ51, marker: Sharp. I can make a 3.3V regulator but best way to switch it off or on (fet or transistor with low gate/base current? Data sheet for this regulator is available had to dig inside sharp semiconductor area even with google didn't find to find out what I need to rig the power control side. Cheers, Wizard

19 years, 5 months

4
3
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Source for 1Mx1 DIP DRAM

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I'm looking for (32) 1Mx1 120ns DRAM chips to populate an Amiga memory > board. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140067553378 they are 100 ns

19 years, 5 months

2
1
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DEC MicroVAX 3800 - still amazes me

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

I have a couple of MicroVAX 3800's that became part of my collection of space heaters during the Y2K period. It amazes me these machines still power up and boot VMS. The date these machines were purchased was sometime in 1989. Both are well equipped and came from a production environment. They gathered process data almost non stop for 10 years. What a perspective correction... I have a C-Itoh CIT-220+ attached to the console port, 12 inch amber screen, no mouse. Pays sometimes to know where we have all been from, makes me feel a bit aged.. Dan @ Butler, PA

19 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

baud modifier

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I'm thinking of a device that would step down the speed of an rs232 connection from, say, 9600 to 110. The idea is to allow a computer that can't do 110 to talk to an ASR33 teletype. Does such a device exist? What's it really called? Does anyone have any schematics for one? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

19 years, 5 months

15
36
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Creating an 8-inch floppy from 3.5-inch Teledisk image

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

I finally got an 8-inch floppy drive connected to a PC and now I want to create an 8-inch boot floppy from a Teledisk image I found, but tdcheck says it's an 82 track 3.5-inch floppy image. That's seems odd. http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/os/ALTOS.ZIP Anyone know for sure if I should be able to use Teledisk to write this image directly to an 8-inch floppy? Or would I need to do something like write the image to a 3.5 inch floppy and then use ImageDisk to read that floppy and write it to the 8-inch floppy? -Glen

19 years, 5 months

5
10
0 0

Hmm

by stevew＠ka6s.com

> Written by Tom Watson, tsw at johana.com >On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:20:51 -0700, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: >>> On 22 Mar 2007 at 14:59, Steve Wilson wrote: >>> >>> >4900796 (Somebody will understand this reference) >>> >>> Someone is trying to boot Fortran off of the Disk on an IBM 1620 me thinks >> >> Isn't 00796 where all-well-behaved programs went to die? I.e. reload >> Monitor (sort of a CALL EXIT)? >> >> --Chuck > >We have a winner. >Just to add to the trivia, to boot the disk you needed a few more characters: >3400032007013600032007024902402111963611300102 >Which if you were on a model 2, you needed to make sure that indirect >addressing was turned on (nothing worked right if you didn't!). > >After doing that a few times, you remembered it pretty well. (Stuff deleted) >Tom Watson >tsw at johana.com So Tom, Do I at least get partial credit for knowing it was from the IBM1620? A friend of mine told me that sequence 30 years ago - and along the way I got confused as to the function. (I know - excuses excuses ;-) I can 't explain why I'm carrying around that data in my head either... I only programmed in GoTran twice, i.e. hands-on a 1620 that many times back in the 1970's at Oxy College in Pasadena on the weekends. A high school buddy was the true Guru in 1620 Machine language. As for the IBM1130 - I've only programmed on one of those in Fortran IV once (though my college buddy Bob seems to have one he is trying to ressurect - http://www.dvq.com/1130/1130.htm) Steve Wilson

19 years, 5 months

1
0
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single transistor projects?

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

> >When I was a kid I had a book, I think it was called something like > >"single transistor projects". As I recall it was full of lots of > >simple circuits featuring a single transistor. > >(or who knows, maybe it was 101 transistor project; I think I was > >in 4th grade at the time - late '60s) Is this it?: 125 One-Transistor Projects (1970) http://tinyurl.com/2fzqhm ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html

19 years, 5 months

8
7
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Transistor Projects

by technobug＠comcast.net

The following caught my eye on the back page of a flyer from a remainder bookseller: "Electronics Lab: The Ultimate Electronics Pack" by Brenda Bach. Its a book with a bunch of experiments as well as the components. It originally sold for $20 and they ask $5.95. It's at <http://www.hamiltonbook.com/hamiltonbook.storefront> and is item 6136583. CRC

19 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

Tiny BASIC Extended available

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Tiny BASIC Extended available > From: "dwight elvey" <dkelvey at hotmail.com> > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:31:51 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > > > >>From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> >> >>I've been hunting for a Tiny BASIC interpreter for the 6502, written in >>6502 assembler with source. I haven't been able to find such a thing. >>Anyone have one floating around? >> >>Jay >> > > >HI Jay >I thought Tom Pittman's TB was for 6502? ( or maybe 6800?) According to the manual and the article (I have both) it was written for both. I have the 6502 version. It's possible I have a papertape of the 6800 version. >As for TB's that are ROMable, I have PaloAlto Tiny Basic in a 2K >ROM for 8080. It has been enhanced from the version that was >published to include the ability to extend. It currently runs in a >Poly88. I've extended the instructions to do PEEK, POKE and >SAVE. I also have StarTrek that runs under it as well. >I've disassembled it and made a commented listing. Most of the >comments are from the original list with some of the spelling errors >fixed. I've added comments about the extention of commands >but that is easiest understood from my listing of the extentions. > I've sent it to someone that put it on a web page but I don't >recall who or where. >I also have Tom's code as well but didn't finish playing with it >when I found it didn't fit in 2K. It was 2K plus about 20 bytes >as I recall. I'm sure I was intending to use it on my SYM-1 so >it must be 6502. >Dwight There were several that are romable. Also there was LLLBasic (Lawrence Livermore Labs) a 5k basic that was also romable (and available on rom). I have that in hardcopy as part of a Best of Interface Age anthology Volume 1 Software in Basic. That had LLLBASIC for 8080, Dr Wangs Palo Alto TB, National NIBL, and Robert Uiterwyks 4K 6800 basic (floppy rom experiement). I'd be surprized if most of that wasn't already on line somewhere. Allison

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Ultrix device names

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

I have a MicroVAX II that is able to boot into Ultrix 4.3 single user mode. If I type "mount" it says that /dev/ra0a is mounted on /. I assume that is my ESDI hard drive since the drives plugged into my SDC-RQD11-EC ESDI controller are the only ones plugged into my system. So, my question is, what would the second drive on that controller be called? Would it be /dev/ra0b or /dev/ra1a? In other words, what do the "0" and "a" parts of the device name mean? Is "0" the controller and "a" the device on that controller? I also have a TD Systems Viking SCSI controller in the system with a CD-ROM drive attached. What device name would I use for that? I'd also like to know how to address that drive from the MVII boot prompt so that I can boot directly off of the CD-ROM. Thanks, David

19 years, 5 months

8
10
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Creating an 8-inch floppy from 3.5-inch Teledisk image

by g-wright＠att.net

-------------- Original message from "Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com>: -------------- > On 3/23/07, Richard Lynch wrote: > > > > I ran into this file a few years back and wasn't able to do much with it. I > > later created my own Altos floppy images using both Teledisk and Imagedisk. > > I'll send them to you offlist for you to try out. > > Richard Lynch > > > > I have an ACS8000-7 dual floppy and an ASC8000-10 floppy / hard drive. > > On both of them I get the monitor prompt to insert a floppy for > autoboot (the -10 fails the hard drive boot first). I tried creating > floppies from ACSBTMD1.IMD and DIAG26K.IMD and I don't get any > indication that anything is happening on either system with either > floppy. No additional output on the terminal and it doesn't appear > that the floppy is seeking at all. > > I don't know for certain that the floppy drives are actually working > on either system other than the motors running. I got them as-is a > couple of years ago with no boot floppies and no way to create boot > floppies at the time. > > I suppose I could pull the drives and attach them to the PC I used to > write the floppies and see if I can read the floppies back ok. That > sounds too much work like work instead of fun for this evening. > > -Glen Glen I have both of theses and you should hear the drives load and unload the heads. . One of the problems I have is the head (nut and screw) assembly stick and the head never gets back to track 0. I have also had to replace the floppy disk controller chip in my 8000/2 in the past These use different boot disks. I have both if you need another sorce. No too sure what is in the ZIP file. - Jerry

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

IBM PS/2 Models 25 and 30

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

To all who replied, good point, when offering a machine, state the processor manufacturer, number and speed. I'll eventually develope a system... Model 30 is an Intel (AMD) 80286 at 10Mhz Model 25 is an Intel (NEC) 8086 at 8MHz Dan @ Butler, PA

19 years, 5 months

3
3
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Byte magazine back issues

by jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu

are the byte magazines available online anywhere, including scans of advertisements? I am interested in some ACP ads, but don't know when they were placed. anyone with a collection I would appreciate finding the full page rear cover inside or outside ads, and getting a high res scan. thanks Jim

19 years, 5 months

2
1
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John Backus passes away...

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

>>> 100 FORMAT( HX)=(1+BX ) >>> >>> Recall, that prior to FORTRAN 90, FORTRAN had no reserved words. >> >> Yes that does look weird at first sight. > > The bigger problem is that it's absolutely ambiguous in the light of > CDC FTN syntax. It can legitimately mean either a FORMAT statement > with the Hollerith constant ")=)1+B" or an assignment to the HX-th > element of an array called FORMAT of the value obtained by evaluating > 1+BX. The PTR ended up on the "deferred" list for quite a long time > as no one could think of an adequately airtight fix. Lots of work- > arounds were proposed, such as "well, if the statement number is > referenced in an I/O statement, then it's a FORMAT" or "if there's an > array called FORMAT, then it's an assignment". Unfortunately, > FORTRAN doesn't demand that FORMAT statements be referenced by an I/O > statement--"orphans" are perfectly legal. It was a real puzzle. Thanks for that, I had completely missed what you were saying, though I still don't know what a PTR is, except for a Paper Tape Reader or an abbreviation for PoinTeR. A bug report? If a FORMAT statement is not referenced by a READ or WRITE statement, does it matter if it is compiled incorrectly? Anyway, if they wanted an assign 1+BX, why put it in parentheses? Still an interesting example though. > Smart*ss customers! > > The usual way for FORTRAN compilers to work back then was to look at > the first word of a statement and attempt to parse it accordingly. > If that failed, then the statement was deemed to be an expression and > re-parsed. I presume that's why some Basics needed LET before an assignment. > This is only one case where a vendor's language extension got it into > trouble. Early on, most language standard specifications called out > the minimum subset of the language that had to be implemented and > remained silent on vendor extensions. Hence, you got scads of > differing dialects all claiming to be "FORTRAN IV". To my knowledge, > this persists in BASIC more than in any other language, ANSI X3.113 > nothwithstanding. Human languages are far worse of course. Roger.

19 years, 5 months

3
3
0 0

Long Paper Tape (renamed)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > >> Later on we moved the compiler onto a GEC 4080 to cross compile >> for the >> 920. The 920 program grew and I had to modify the compiler so it >> could >> produce the binary output in chunks as it exceeded a 1000 foot >> roll of >> tape, and anyway I was the only person in the office capable of >> rolling >> up a full 1000 foot roll without damaging it. > > I am guessing you get 8 characters per inch of tape. > That is a 93.75 K of data per tape. Ten characters per inch, so 120KB. Useful content though was one 18 bit word per three characters, so 40K words. The 920ATC had 128K words of program/data storage plus another 128K for data only. So if every instruction was used, that's 3 full reels of tape and possibly more if there were any pre-loaded tables in the data only section. The reason it was difficult to wind up was our paper tape winders only had a 6 of 7 inch back plate, so beyond that I had to use two fingers to guide both sides of the tape, and got hard skin on both fingers. It became such a problem the company bought Penny & Giles 1/4 inch cassette tape machines. They worked fine for a while then the baud rate started drifting as it was derived from an RC network! Eventually our engineers modified them to use a proper oscillator circuit. In the mean time I had hooked up a direct serial link between the 4080 and the 920ATC running at 9600 baud. My first comms program (well, sort of). Roger.

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Hmm -

by sdc695＠yahoo.com

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:20:51 -0700, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: > On 22 Mar 2007 at 14:59, Steve Wilson wrote: > > > >4900796 (Somebody will understand this reference) > > > > Someone is trying to boot Fortran off of the Disk on an IBM 1620 me thinks... > > Isn't 00796 where all-well-behaved programs went to die? I.e. reload > Monitor (sort of a CALL EXIT)? > > --Chuck We have a winner. Just to add to the trivia, to boot the disk you needed a few more characters: 3400032007013600032007024902402111963611300102 Which if you were on a model 2, you needed to make sure that indirect addressing was turned on (nothing worked right if you didn't!). After doing that a few times, you remembered it pretty well. OB Fortran reference: There were several "load & go" Fortrans available for the 1620. The one I liked the best was Witran. It fit into a 20k machine, but was interpreted. Still not too bad for a Fortran. The best was the Monitor II Fortran II. It generated automatic floating point instructions, and used index registers (only for the compiler I think). Pretty speedy. The hardware floating point on a 1620-II was faster than the software on the (next generation) IBM 1130 (I used that too). The 1620's bonus was that standard precision (in floating point) was 8 significant digits. If you really felt ambitious, you could go MUCH higher (28 digits with Fortran-II). Few machines today can match that in hardware! -- Tom Watson tsw at johana.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL

19 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

John Backus passes away...

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

* Al Kossow wrote: > I wonder which machine would take the prize for the > most done with so little? In the 60's, probably the LINC 1 or 2k 12 bit words, LINCtape, typewriter, CRT, and Lab I/O http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/ijs/epl/LINC.html Billy: It touched me as a little ironic that the photo attached said: JPEG image, 20k Linc could so much with 1 or 2K, and today we need 20K just for a simple photo of it. Billy

19 years, 5 months

3
2
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John Backus passes away...

by ken＠seefried.com

From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> >Jules Richardson wrote: >> > I wonder which machine would take the prize for the >> > most done with so little? > >I would have guessed something with plugboards for programming. >Possibly drum-memory. > Bletchley Bomb and/or Colossus? Certainly the results to resources ratio was pretty amazingly high.

19 years, 5 months

1
0
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One last comment on Burroughs and crossbar switches

by aek＠bitsavers.org

A little more digging, and the crossbar in the B 5000 series idea came from the D 825 SAGE backup system AN/GSA-51 ref. Burroughs B 5000 conference Sep 85, archived by CBI (page 18) other references can be found on line to the D 825 being the first multiprocessor, and to the memory/processor switch http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/notes/35cross.html http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/airdef/buic.htm http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/randy.carpenter/folklore/v3n1.html

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Can the MicroVAX II or KDJ11-A boot off of a SCSI CD-ROM?

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

It seems all of my removable media devices are broken (TK50 and RX50). That leaves me wondering if I can boot a MicroVAX II or a KDJ11-A off of a CD-ROM. I have a SCSI controller that should work with either machine and I have a SCSI CD-ROM drive. Can either of these machines boot from a SCSI CD-ROM? Thanks, David

19 years, 5 months

8
16
0 0

OT: SPAM Spoofing

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I've got a problem, and am wondering if anyone has any advice as to what I can do. I run my own private mailserver on my OpenVMS 7.3-2 system. Only a few people know how to get ahold of me, and it's basically used to communicate with my family. Someone started sending out spam yesterday that appears to be coming from my IP address and domain name based on the email headers, yet I've verfied the messages aren't originating from my network. As a result of this my VMS server has been thrashing, the B******* are using a fake account name that is 14 characters long, so OpenVMS won't automatically reject it, but instead bounces the bounces, then accepts the bounce backs. Last night I finally shut down SMTP on my VMS server, and am blocking all incoming SMTP connections at my firewall. I've also alerted my ISP as to the problem. Is there anything I can do about this? My one thought is to do an "emergency" upgrade to OpenVMS V8.3 as it will reject email to invalid accounts that are 13+ characters in length, and then turn SMTP back on. I've been meaning to do the upgrade, but haven't had time yet. Zane

19 years, 5 months

4
4
0 0

Why blinkenlights ?

by jos.dreesen＠bluewin.ch

I am currenly contemplating what kind of IO to put on my coming i8008 system : what is it that makes blinkenlights (i.e. leds and switches ) seem so attractive ? It must be about the worst possible way to interact with a computer... So why is it then that almost all early micros had them ? a 7segment display with keyboard ( as in a H8) is clearly more usable, and would have cost nothing more. Or were early eproms (for the monitor program) that expensive ? Jos

19 years, 5 months

17
26
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Tiny BASIC Extended available

by eds_2＠yahoo.com

Every so often, a discussion of Tiny BASIC appears around here. I was curious about one of the very first versions of Tiny BASIC, the 8080 implementation done by Whipple and Arnold, as documented in the Vol. 1 No. 1 (Jan 1976) issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal (of Tiny BASIC Calisthenics and Orthodontia) This issue contains an octal listing of a Tiny BASIC interpreter for the 8080, and I couldn't find this version available for download anywhere. So... I typed it in, and it works! I documented my work, which is available at http://oss.readytalk.com/tb/tinybasic.tar.gz (Note - this location is temporary - I need a home for this if anyone is interested) Included are the text file for the octal listing, a binary which can be loaded into memory, an attempt to extract the IL from the binary, and some instructions on bringing up Tiny BASIC. I was able to run some simple programs with a Z80 simulator that I've been running, and it appears to work correctly. I found the PDF of the listing in the ACM digital library: http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/987491.987494 Typing in octal listings is error-prone enough, and typing them in from bad PDF scans of bad photocopies is even trickier. I have corrected many errors, but I'm sure there are more. If any kind soul would be willing to proofread / correct the listing, it would be **GREATLY** appreciated. I hope this is of interest to people. I'm very interested in other versions of Tiny BASIC out there, if someone has ever typed this listing before, etc. I'm familiar with Tom Pittman's work, but other resources would be greatly appreciated. -Eric ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news

19 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

Tiny BASIC Extended available

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Tiny BASIC Extended available > From: cctech at porky.vax-11.org > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:32:28 -0600 (MDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > > >Would enhanced basic work? > >http://members.lycos.co.uk/leeedavison/6502/ehbasic/index.html > >Clint > >On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Jay West wrote: > >> I've been hunting for a Tiny BASIC interpreter for the 6502, written in 6502 >> assembler with source. I haven't been able to find such a thing. Anyone have >> one floating around? >> >> Jay >> >> I have Tom Pitmans Tinybasic for 6502 is that what you want? If so email me direct for a copy. Allison

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Hmm -

by stevew＠ka6s.com

>From Tom Watson - >Sorry wrong bits!! Wrong code set! >11101000 11001001 11000111 11001000 11100011 01000000 11010110 11010101 >01011010 > >4900796 (Somebody will understand this reference) Someone is trying to boot Fortran off of the Disk on an IBM 1620 me thinks... Steve Wilson

19 years, 5 months

3
4
0 0

Xebec Winchester controller

by martin＠biblewitness.org.uk

jd wrote: >HP's number for this OEM board--by MSC/Xebec is 88134-69910, 09135-69515, >and/or 09135-69501. I have no idea which number belongs to mine. FYI: These are all used on 5Mb drives with two sets of firmware classified as follows: 88134-69910 'L' Code - HP250 Model 20 09135-69515 'D' Code - 4-Volume 5-Mb (emulates HP 9895A drives - I use this for my 9845B and HP-85 & 87 systems) 09135-69501 'L' Code - single volume 5-Mb. Martin Web: http://www.biblewitness.org/technical

19 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

Tiny BASIC Extended available

by eds_2＠yahoo.com

> I'm thinking that I would like to put together a very small > Z80-based SBC just for this interpreter. Do you know if this > code is ROMable? I'm reasonably sure it isn't ROMable. The good news is that the user entered program is stored immediately above the end of the listing at 1800H. Unfortunately, the input buffer appears to be stored somewhere early within the address space of the listing (1049H, I think), and although I'm still disassembling the code, I half suspect that there is some self-modifying code in there. At first, I even thought there was some self-modifying code in the intermediate language, but I think I was misinterpreting what was going on. In any case, there are definitely several writes within the 1000H - 17FFH space of the code, but hopefully I'll know soon how extensively one would have to modify this to make it ROMable. -Eric ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Sol terminal in Polular Electronics July 1976

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

> From: John S > Subject: Sol terminal in Practical Electronics July 1976 > > for Practical Electronics July 1976. This features a 8080A computer and > refers to the SOL terminal. Is there any relation between this computer > and > the SOL 20 computer? > Here is how Stan Veit remembers it. http://www.pc-history.org/sol.htm The stripped-down terminal version Lee (Felsenstein) designed for the magazine article had a personality module, but only had limited RAM memory. It was still more intelligent than most "glass teletypes," so it was called The SOL Intelligent Terminal. The full version was to come in two styles. The less expensive one had a simple keyboard and only one slot for expansion. It was called The SOL-10, and very few were ever built. The second model was a complete computer with an excellent keyboard and a card cage with five slots. It was called The SOL-20, and provided enough memory for general computer applications. When the prototype was complete, the Processor Technology crew headed for New York City to demonstrate it to Les Solomon. The machine had been named The SOL, in his honor. When Bob Marsh revealed the name to me, I called Les and joked, "They're naming the new machine after you - The LES Intelligent Terminal!" Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley

19 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

John Backus passes away...

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I wonder which machine would take the prize for the > most done with so little? In the 60's, probably the LINC 1 or 2k 12 bit words, LINCtape, typewriter, CRT, and Lab I/O http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/ijs/epl/LINC.html

19 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

VCF/Midwest 3 preliminary announcement

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

I'm happy to announce that VCF/Midwest 3 is being sponsored this year by Purdue University's Research Computing group, the Rosen Center for Advanced Computing. The event will be a *2 day* event this year, on July 14th and 15th. Sellam is working on getting the web site set up for this year's event, and it should be up shortly, at http://www.vintage.org If you are interested in speaking at the event, exhibiting, or just have a question, please contact me at vcfmw at computer-refuge.org. Thanks, Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

19 years, 5 months

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John Backus passes away...

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

>>>> Did any computer built after 1960 NOT have a FORTRAN >>>> implementation? >>> >>> Yes, my ICT1301 (155+ built from 1962 to 1965) had no Fortran >>> compiler. >> >> I've not seen a Fortran compiler for any of the following : >> >> HP9830 (I claim this is a computer, it ran BASIC from ROM) >> >> Philips P850 (maximum 2K words of core, I believe larger P800 series >> machines did have a Fortran compiler available) >> >> HP9825, 9831, 9845, 9835 series >> HP80 series. >> >> Just about all the pocekt computers (Sharp, Casio, HP, etc) >> >> What abotu the IBM 5100? And for that matter the Commodore PET (I >> know >> the SuperPET had such a compiler), the C64, etc. And the Sinclair/ >> Amstrad >> machines (ZX*0, ZX81, Spectrums). And the Oric > > How many of the above would run *any* type of compile-to-machine- > language HLL compiler? Most of the BASICs were tokenized and > interpreted. > > A few of those that you've cited simply didn't have the resources for > it. > > But maybe not--even the lowly IBM 1620 with 20K digits (not bytes--a > character took 2 digits) of core and no disk drive would compile > FORTRAN. That's pretty remarkable when you consider that a 1620 > instruction is 12 digits long--and the bottom half-K or so was > dedicated to storing arithmetic lookup tables (the 1620 Cadet > couldn't even add two numbers without the tables first being loaded). > The card reader-punch was used as intermediate storage--you read in > pass 1 of the compiler, then your program, which caused a new card to > be punched for every statement. You then read in the deck for pass > 2, followed by your program and an executable object deck was punched > (and a listing was made on the printer). AFAIK, the Cadet equipped > with paper tape instead of cards could do the same thing. This was probably not aimed at me, but for the record the ICT 1301 had a COBOL compiler (if you count that as a HLL) but most programs were written in machine code with relativisers. The largest 1301 had 2000 words by 12 digits, but I think COBOL could run on a 1200 word machine, so 1200 x 12 =14400 digits, a bit less than a 1620. What it did (and still does) have is a 12000 word drum as backing store. Many 1301s also had mag tape too, but I am not sure COBOL needed to use them. Mind you 1301 instructions are mainly six digits long, Its just the block move and drum/tape I/O orders which are 12 digits. The card/paper tape intermediates reminds me of the older Elliott 920 Coral 66 compiler written by CAP (computer analysts and programmers). It was four passes and each pass punched out a tape to read into the next pass. The first pass expanded macros and was optional if you did not use any macros. The second and third passes converted from infix to polish, then polish to reverse polish (or maybe the other way round), and the final pass did code generation. Then you collected together all the tapes from all your program segments and libraries and fed them to a linking loader. If you managed to do that without tearing a tape you were rewarded by your program running. My boss wrote a mini operating system which loaded the programs and passed the intermediates via a huge disk (about a meter diameter with the axis horizontal, it was a head per track disc of a fairly small capacity, IIRC 2 million bits or maybe 2 million 18 bit words), which made life bearable. Later on we moved the compiler onto a GEC 4080 to cross compile for the 920. The 920 program grew and I had to modify the compiler so it could produce the binary output in chunks as it exceeded a 1000 foot roll of tape, and anyway I was the only person in the office capable of rolling up a full 1000 foot roll without damaging it. Roger.

19 years, 5 months

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single transistor projects?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

[possibly off topic, but what isn't these days? :-)] When I was a kid I had a book, I think it was called something like "single transistor projects". As I recall it was full of lots of simple circuits featuring a single transistor. (or who knows, maybe it was 101 transistor project; I think I was in 4th grade at the time - late '60s) anyway, one was a single transistor FM radio. I just remember it had a single FET, a coil, a cap, some discreets. I think it told how to wind the coil "in the air". Does anyone remember such a book? I figure if anyone one would, it would be someone here... seems like a fun thing to build now days with my son. -brad

19 years, 5 months

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Bitsavers subscription

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I credit Guy Sotomayor with the original idea, a few others chimed in as well. So I ran it by Al Kossow and this was officially blessed by him.... The plan is for me to offer subscriptions to bitsavers for a fee. The idea is that you can sign up for a subscription and pick just the specific directory trees you want, or the entire archive. You are initially sent a complete copy of all the trees you selected (or full archive) on the medium of your choice (CD, DVD, HD, etc.). From that point on - for the subscription fee - you are automatically shipped a set of updates periodically - say every month? - that keeps your own personal bitsavers archive up to date. Perhaps this automated system could also allow purchase of a "one-off" cd/dvd without a subscription containing just the files and/or directories that you tag. Why purchase a subscription? Well, for one - it keeps you from having to constantly check bitsavers for what is new and download those files. It also will hopefully reduce the bandwidth on the site for people who decide they want a full copy. It gives you a way to get all the files in a courteous manner and keep up to date. Another reason - the cost of the subscription would be just a bit higher than the cost of media. The overage above the cost of media goes to the care and feeding of the classiccmp server. That means by buying a subscription you are helping to subsidize the cost of the classiccmp hardware, bandwidth usage, etc. etc. This is much like the FreeBSD CDROM subscription if you're familiar with that. You can get the identical bits elsewhere, but buying a CD subscription is convenient and directly supports the cause. I would also point out that this in no way changes your ability to download files directly from bitsavers or any of the mirrors for free. This is merely a packaging/update service to be viewed as a donation to the cause and a convenience for those who want to stay current on bitsavers. I am going to check with the developer working on the classiccmp website to see if this (tracking the membership, what directories they want, building the burn directories, etc.) is something that will fit well into code he has already done for the new classiccmp. If it is, great. If not, then I'll ask him if he wants this task. If not, then I'll come back to the list and see if people educated in the ways of php/mysql wish to contribute time to creating the software. Of course, if no one is interested, I'll just continue making the occasional trip downtown to the datacenter and burning CD's for people at no charge. It would be nice if there was interest in this though! Jay West

19 years, 5 months

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ADDS Multivision

by mconnor＠cosmocom.com

I saw your post about finding MUON disks for your MultiVision. I was part of the development team that designed this. I designed the BIOS & alot of the HW dealing with the floppy & hard disks. I do not have any of the disks, but might be able to find some of the others developers. Would you be interested in selling or trading it? This is the first one or posting I have seen since 1980 when I left ADDS - the company who made it. I am really interested in trying to see if you would sell/trade it. I can spend some email time discussing it's history if you like. Thanks, Mike Connor _____ Michael E Connor Quality Assurance Team Lead CosmoCom, Inc.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 />121 Broad Hollow Road Melville, NY 11747 USA Phone: +1 (631) 940-4213 Fax: +1 (631) 940-4562 EMAIL: <mailto:mconnor at cosmocom.com> mconnor at cosmocom.com URL: <http://www.cosmocom.com/> http://www.cosmocom.com _____________________________________________ Maximize Your Investment in CosmoCom Technology at CosmoCommunity 2007 Join us 30 May - 1 June, 2007 - Hauppauge, New York Learn more and register at <blocked::http://www.cosmocommunity.com///ohttp://www.cosmocommunity.com/> http://www.cosmocommunity.com

19 years, 5 months

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Bitsavers subscription

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

>Jay West wrote: > >> I credit Guy Sotomayor with the original idea, a few others chimed in >> as well. So I ran it by Al Kossow and this was officially blessed by >> him.... >> >> The plan is for me to offer subscriptions to bitsavers for a fee. >> I'll sign up too. Ashley

19 years, 5 months

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Looking for Mirage OS diskettes: Pinnace 1a or Sage II/IV

by daviderhart＠oldzonian.com

Hello, I'm looking for Mirage OS diskettes for a data recovery effort. I'm trying to recover data on a Pinnacle 1a (68000 based system) http://www.sageandstride.org/Pinnacle-1a-1.jpg The system has Mirage OS installed on the hard drive. The system no longer boots to the hard drive so I'm hoping to reinstall the Mirage OS on a different hard drive and access the current hard drive as a secondary drive. If anyone has a lead on where I can find a copy of some Mirage OS diskettes for either the Pinnacle 1a or for a Sage II or Sage IV, I would really appreciate it. Here is an old brochure on the Mirage OS: http://www.sageandstride.org/html/mirageos_0.html Thanks for any help. --- David W. Erhart daviderhart at oldzonian.com daviderhart at sageandstride.org http://www.sageandstride.org

19 years, 5 months

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Sol terminal in Practical Electronics July 1976

by john_a_s2004＠hotmail.com

Hi, I saw this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230104939789 for Practical Electronics July 1976. This features a 8080A computer and refers to the SOL terminal. Is there any relation between this computer and the SOL 20 computer? Regards, John _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/

19 years, 5 months

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Crossbar and NeWS questions

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> The Burroughs B5000/6000/7000 series mainframes used crossbar switches to > interconnect CPUs with memory and I/O processors. These machines were > introduced in 1961 or thereabouts. The relevant document is the B 5220 Central Control Technical Manual, orig issued in 1964 which discusses the crossbar: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/B5000_5500_5700/B5220.51_CentralControl_… page 111 or so..

19 years, 5 months

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Sol terminal in Practical Electronics July 1976

by frustum＠pacbell.net

John, it is one and the same. The production Sol was different than what appeared in the article. There were just a few prototypes made, and the one in the article is one of them. At www.sol20.org you can find scans of the article, and elsewhere is the PCB artwork for that revision board, which didn't appear in the magazine, but which was offered in the article for the cost of a self addressed stamped envelope. ----- Original Message ---- From: John S <john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:32:00 AM Subject: Sol terminal in Practical Electronics July 1976 Hi, I saw this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230104939789 for Practical Electronics July 1976. This features a 8080A computer and refers to the SOL terminal. Is there any relation between this computer and the SOL 20 computer? Regards, John _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/

19 years, 5 months

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VAXmate Service Guide and Option Installation Guides

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

Does anyone want a DEC binder containing tthe VAXmate Service Guide, VAXmate Personal Workstation Handbook and installation guides for a number of VAXmate options? I got this with a bunch of MicroVAX stuff and don't have any use for it. I thought I'd offer it here before consigning it to the trash. Thanks, David

19 years, 5 months

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Desperately seeking.. terminal

by feedle＠feedle.net

I'm hoping that there is somebody on the list who can help a brother out. I need some kind of basic terminal, preferably something VT-100 compatible, but I'll take what I can get. The screen can have a little burn-in, all that is really important is that it is legible and the keyboard functions, and that I can get 9600 baud serial out of it. Oh, and there's another catch. It needs to be somewhere within an 8-hour one-way drive of eastern Montana (that means Denver, SLC, Spokane, the Dakotas, Alberta and Saskatchewan, etc), or somebody willing to pack and ship on the cheap. I'm hoping to get away with around $100 (not including gas and/or shipping) E-mail me off-list (of course).

19 years, 5 months

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software (actually anything classic computer related) directory

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Some mention has been made on the list with regards to a "global" list of > classic computer related artifacts, be those documents (manuals), software > bits, other historical ephemera, etc. The concept I've been working with is > defining a standard record format for interchange amongst those that wish to > participate. Think of this as something like ANSI X.12 (Electronic Data > Interchange). Seth would probably be better qualified to talk about this, but there is an exchange protocol in LOCKSS that may be useful for this, though it is geared more towards electronic copies of documents, including province, access rights, etc. in a distributed content environment.

19 years, 5 months

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beware: "Microsoft BASIC" paper tape on eBay

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> did you try emailing the seller and say that? Of course I did, prior to posting the classiccmp message. I received no reply, and the auction is still there, unmodified. Would it have been better not to warn potential buyers on this list about it?

19 years, 5 months

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Board ID?

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

I have a qbus board that I'd like to identify. I think it's some sort of SCSI adapter but I don't know if it will support disks or if it is "tape only". The board is labeled "TD Systems (c) 1987 ASSY 210-00031". In another place on the board it says "211 00031 REV E". It has a ROM on it labeled "Viking Q/B A4.1". Is this a Viking SCSI adapter? Can anyone point me to a manual for it? I've already checked Bitsavers and Manx and haven't found it. Also, if it is a SCSI hard disk capable adapter, does it have an onboard boot that will work with a PDP-11? Thanks! David

19 years, 5 months

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John Backus passes away...

by RMeenaks＠olf.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/19/obituaries/20cnd-backus.html?ex=133204320… Ram

19 years, 5 months

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beware: "Microsoft BASIC" paper tape on eBay

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230107368051 You can read the first dozen bytes in the picture, which are 7 bit ASCII, starting with 1010000 1010010 1001111 "PROCESSOR TECHNOLOGY BASIC" most likely 4K Proc Tech BASIC, given the tape length.. Jim B. could probably confirm that.

19 years, 5 months

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Hex Keypad

by dm561＠torfree.net

-----------Original Message: Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 07:53:46 +1100 From: Doug Jackson <doug at stillhq.com> Subject: Hex Keypad On the subject of Blinken lights and toggle switches, I have had difficulties finding decent mechanical keyswitches to use for projects. Essentially, I need to make a hex keypad, with a couple of extra function keys. I know that now we would simply get a membrane rubber thing made up, but once upon a time, I would purchase 20 mechanical switches, and solder them to veroboard. Sadly, I can't find a source of these switches any more..... Same applies to ACSII keyboards - I am fully aware that I could get a PC keyboard and a microcontroller and have ASCI out - but that is 'yet another pc keyboard' Any ideas? Doug --------------Reply; Let me know off-list if you can't find what you need; I've got several boxes full of old keyboards etc. (including an APL keyboard, although I can't recall what that's from ). mike

19 years, 5 months

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Crossbar and NeWS questions

by jonas＠otter.se

The Burroughs B5000/6000/7000 series mainframes used crossbar switches to interconnect CPUs with memory and I/O processors. These machines were introduced in 1961 or thereabouts. Jonas Otter

19 years, 5 months

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Real Programmers (was: Re: John Backus passes away...)

by sdc695＠yahoo.com

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:34:12 "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> says: > > > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: John Backus passes away... > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> On 3/21/07, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: >> Nope, real programmers write in binary. > > 01010010 01101001 01100111 01101000 01110100 00100000 01001111 01101110 > 00100001 > Sorry wrong bits!! Wrong code set! 11101000 11001001 11000111 11001000 11100011 01000000 11010110 11010101 01011010 4900796 (Somebody will understand this reference) -- Tom Watson tsw at johana.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html

19 years, 5 months

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