On 3/20/07, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> wrote: You could enter this MSCP bootstrap by hand with a dumb terminal in ODT, but you would probably want to use a terminal program to send it rather than typing it. http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr… I haven't actually tried that MSCP bootstrap, but I did enter the TMSCP bootstrap I found there via a terminal program in ODT mode on a KDJ11-A and it worked fine to boot from a tape. -Glen

On 3/20/07, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> wrote: A nice, basic setup - CPU, memory, serial, disk, and tape. The MSCP boot is dozens of bytes, but it can be entered by hand (or I think someone else pointed out the manual on bitsavers, but I don't ever remember having to configure one - we never needed a second one in any MicroVAX or MicroPDP I ever worked with - we just had DZQs lying around set to the defaults. I do not believe that's possible. Back in the day, the DLV11J was commonly used for console plus 3 serial ports for printers and what not. I tended to see the DZQ11 on systems that had a console port (MicroVAXen or MicroPDPs w/serial on the CPU) and for interactive terminals plus maybe a serial printer. The default strapping for a DLV11J was to have one of the SLUs at the expected console CSR and vector, but some flavor of DLV11 (DLV11E?) could provide a console serial port on a dual-height card (but only one port on that card). That should work fine with the RQDX3, as long as the drives were previously formatted on an RQDX3 or if you can boot XXDP's low-level formatter. I've never done it from a PDP-11, so I don't recall the XXDP module name (I've always done it from either a MicroVAX 2000 or If your drives are ready to go with an RQDX3, you can plug them in, boot from floppy or tape, and load an OS. I never had one but IIRC, the MXV11 can give you both a bootstrap and a console. You could also install a dedicated console serial board as described above, and type in/download a bootstrap. Off the top my head, all the later PDP-11 CPU boards had a built-in console and second serial line, but the KDF11-A and KDJ11-A did not. Those tended to use either an MXV11 or a DLV11J + BDV11 boot/terminator. -ethan

Jerome Fine replies: Sorry for the long delay - I rarely download e-mail more than once a week. If you are actually physically able to enter a program (under ODT) by hand typing, it probably takes a few minutes. If you are booting more than once a day, this becomes very tedious. HOWEVER, your present configuration can't, as far as I can remember about the DZQ11-M board, transmit to and receive from the ODT program on board a KDJ11-Ax board (M8192-Ax). As far as I can remember, ODT assumes that the hardware SLU is at CSR = 177560 (and maybe a VECTOR = 60 although that might not be used and is not needed) which are the values used by the PDP-11/73 console SLU with a DL interface. Normally, a KDJ11-Ax board uses a DLV11-J with one port configured as the console at CSR = 177560 / VECTOR = 60. And while there are a few other alternatives that have been discussed (like the MXV11 which has 2 SLU and memory as well as ROM options), the DLV11-J is likely the best solution. The short answer is NO!!!! Especially for so-called hardware ODT with a KDJ11-Ax board. Under RT-11, the standard distributed console interface is also a DL at CSR = 177560 / VECTOR = 60. If a program is linked with the software ODT program version, that same console will be used as is currently in effect within the operating system IF that version of ODT is chosen by the user linking the program. Other debugging programs, including some versions of ODT, allow the standard DL at CSR = 177560 / VECTOR = 60 to be used instead in either a software or hardware mode. However, it is entirely possible to use your DZQ11-M board as the console under RT-11 after RT-11 has been booted if the RT-11 version of the operating system includes multi-terminal support - a SYSGEN MUST be performed. If I remember correctly, a few extra things MUST also be done to prevent any interaction with a DL device during the boot process AND the command file which is automatically executed at boot must contain the command to: SET TT CONSOL=n where n is not zero, i.e. the console is switched via software to be one of the DZQ11-M ports. If you can't use the RD54 (XT-2190), then I strongly suggest that you NEVER use the RD53 except for scratch storage - if you are even able to do so at any given session. Most of the RD53 drives that I ever used not longer function and the few that I still have (that might be still working) are not used any more in any case. If you can find an RD52 or even an RD51, they are also useful. Since I think that you have the Sigma ESDI controller, an ESDI hard drive is usually quite reasonable these days if you can find one. While a SCSI host adapter is probably still expensive, small 50 pin SCSI drives (up to 500 MegaBytes) are probably still available. RT-11 can be very useful with drives as small as 10 MegaBytes although I can't seem to remember a SCSI drive ever being that small. Depending on the version of RT-11, a drive of 8 GigaBytes can be used (Tim Shoppa once bragged about his 9 GigaByte drive under RT-11 although how he kept track of what was there I really don't know!!). The standard distribution of RT-11 can easily use a drive of up to 256 MegaBytes. Drives which are larger that what can be usefully used will still perform very well with the portion that is used. The biggest problem will be to transfer the files to the hard drive. If you are only running the PDP-11/73 to say that it can be done, then you might prepare an RX50 floppy on a PC using an emulator and then use the RQDX3 with an RX50 drive on the PDP-11/73. If you want any speed on the actual PDP-11/73, then a hard drive is necessary as well as to provide space for disk files if you want to write any programs. On the other hand, if you are running the PDP-11/73 to have fun with the operating system and to write programs on a PDP-11/73, then using an emulator such as SIMH is far easier. In addition, if you are using an older version of a PDP-11 operating system such as V05.03 or older of RT-11, it is also entirely allowed by Mentec at this point as far as I understand even though the actual hobby license was for use with an emulator from DEC. SIMH is the current version of the original emulator that was originally licensed by Mentec to be used as the DEC emulator for PDP-11 operating systems for specified old versions of RSTS/E, RSX-11 and RT-11. If you already have a license to run any of the current PDP-11 operating systems, then you can also legally use either the hobby version of E11 or a commercial E11 version on current PC hardware. Mentec will also sell you a license to di this as well. The Sigma RQD11-EC ESDI controller can provide the boot ROM and the DLV11-J can be used to provide the DL type SLU if you are using a standard distributed DEC operating system. As stated above, if you perform a SYSGEN om RT-11 and produce a version with multi-terminal support for the DZQ11-M, then you can (after you transfer the operating system to a file on the boot media and make sure you don't require the DL SLU during the initial boot process) boot into what seems like you only require the DZQ11-M module. If you still don't have a DL SLU, I can help you do this. Also, I think there was a question about booting from a READ ONLY media. RT-11 does NOT require any write operations during the boot process and is very happy to execute from a READ ONLY disk drive. About the only additional command that you may want to perform is to: SET EXIT NOSWAP as you may get an error message from RT-11 when memory is tight. In addition, the DEC version of SL: will not begin, but that is probably not a problem for most people. Of course, you can't save any files if you don't have a media to WRITE to, but I don't think that was the question. For myself, I almost ALWAYS have the system disk in READ ONLY mode unless I specifically want to write to the hard drive since I am usually making changes to and debugging the operating system. Since I often find that I have a number of bugs in the operating system, I feel MUCH safer when the hard drive is READ ONLY and I write to the hard drive ONLY when I have s specific file I want to save. If is quite easy with the Sigma RQD11-EC with a passive panel or with most of the SCSI host adapters. With the emulators, it is a simple command. Any other questions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.