- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 23:07 -0500 5/15/10, Fred wrote: >Could somebody please give Tony a ride to it? > >Tony, >GO! Seconded. Most useful post I've seen in weeks. Where do I send contributions? Assuming we can make this a zero-sum game (go vs. not go) for Tony's finances, I'd like to do that. -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

16 years, 3 months

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[OT] Space Shuttle and ISS (was Re: Amiga 1000 helps winagainstpatent troll...)

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

I've always wanted to give Burt Rutan a run at a Space Shuttle replacement. I bet he'd do something really nice. His White Knight/Spaceship One combo seems pretty innovative. But, that's not intended to be a Shuttle replacement. Al

16 years, 3 months

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Don't know if anyone cares, but...

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

My first PC was not a real IBM 5150/5160, it was a clone called the "American PC". It was a Taiwanese clone, and I got it from the company I worked for at the time which was an American Dealer. He was a bit unscrupulous as he would replace the BIOS it shipped with from Taiwan with home-blown IBM Bios chips. My system had 640k, was a "Turbo" system, and I replaced the 8088 with a V20. I still have the 8088 chip in my chip box. I also got it with two 360k drives, and two ST-213 drives which were 10mb versions of the ST-225. I even had a 2400bps Modem for it. It was in a case that looked like a 5150, but had a flip top like a car hood. It was a pretty nice system. I used it to run my BBS at the time, running TBBS software. It had a Clone CGA card that I attached to a Composite Zenith Green Screen display. I think this was circa 1983. I remember going to TCF and seeing the IBM 5150 Cassette units there for about $1000.00US. I really wanted one of those. I think I ended up paying about that for this one. I ended up selling it when I built a 286 system a few years later. I'm kinda sorry I did. It was a nice system for the time. I have a 5150 board built into a clone XT case right now. It only has 256k, so I need to configure one of the two RAM cards I have for it to bring it up to 640k. I put an 8bit OAK Video card in it that does MDA/MGA/CGA/EGA/VGA. So, I can use any monitor I can find on it. I do still have the PC style keyboard from that first system. I loved it so much, I couldn't part with it. Now, it will get use on this one. I found a 40mg Hard Drive on a card that I will use in the system. Al Keansburg, NJ

16 years, 3 months

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Alignment Diskettes

by djg＠pdp8online.com

>Anyone have any pointers to places selling them, also may be looking for >3.5" alignment diskettes. > Try asking this person. I got 8" and 5.25" from him. Looks like he's only listing 8" right now but check with him. The 5.25" he wasn't listing but dug some up when I asked about them. http://shop.ebay.com/calcor4/m.html?_trkparms=65%253A15%257C66%253A2%257C39…

16 years, 3 months

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Digital VIVACE

by quapla＠xs4all.nl

Hello All, Anybody familiar with an old DEC product called 'VIVACE'? It looks like it is a package for Win 3.11. Thanks, Ed -- Dit is een HTML vrije email / This is an HTML free email.

16 years, 3 months

1
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San Fransisco area help needed

by h.j.stegeman＠hccnet.nl

Hi, Can someone in the SF area tell me if the Bethlehem-Steel-Administration-Building located at Northeast corner of 20th and Illinois still exists ? If it still there, is someone willing to check out if this IBM 3741 is still standing there. See: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ibm&w=55599586%40N00 It would be really great if someone can salvage its keyboard to repair my broken IBM 3741. Many thanks ! Regards Henk http://www.ibmsystem3.nl ============================================================================ ============================ Wanted: IBM 3741/3742 keyboard. Henk Stegeman h.j.stegeman at hccnet.nl Sat Apr 11 13:12:26 CDT 2009 * Previous message: (was) I [don't] hate E-Bay (was ...) Annoying bidding from buyer's perspective * Next message: HP262x keyboard to HP120 interface * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello all, Does anyone have a keyboard of an IBM 3741 or 3742 spare ? Mine has stopped working. IBM has used two custom LSI chip in this keyboard and makes it now non repairable :-( Please contact me off list if you can help. Thanks Henk http://www.ibmsystem3.nl * Previous message: (was) I [don't] hate E-Bay (was ...) Annoying bidding from buyer's perspective * Next message: HP262x keyboard to HP120 interface * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the cctalk mailing list

16 years, 3 months

26
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cctech Digest, Vol 81, Issue 20

by les＠frii.com

If the 100w bulb is not brighter than the 40w bulb, why would they make 100w bulbs? Just to waste energy? I realize that watts is not a measure of brightness, but for any given technology, the higher wattage bulb is brighter. >> >> But most people will, without thinking, say "Oh, a 100W bulb is >> brighter than a 40W, so the answer is obvious." And wrong.

16 years, 3 months

4
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memory emulators, eprom programmers, embedded, etc.

by rdawson16＠hotmail.com

Hi, I querry all the sages out there for your recommendations for a romulator and burner set of tools. What I would like to have is a emulator tool like a USB device and a set of socket adapters (DIP and J lead for network cards); Some command line tools or open source that would let me pipe the result of a comple and link within a IDE, like eclipse (OK emacs if I must) for the compile debug test cycle; Then hardware to actually later blow (flash?) some parts, these would be 28 pin dips for my old z80 fun, and I would like to explore the boot ROM on a network card, so thats why I ask for a j lead socket adapter. Somebody brought up the B&C Microsystems guys a few pages back; I knew those guys. I think I was their largest customer; we bought hundreds of their programmers to ship with our product, a z-80 industrial terminal for PLCs. It was a build or buy decision; we went buy, as they gave them to us for $75 or so in volume. We had a few bugs, like buffer overrun and incorrect handshake over rs232, but they fixed it pretty quick. Nice guys. While I'm on the embedded topic, has anyone herd of this trick, their calling a 'glitching environment', wherein the fuse protected ROM of a CPU is made available, by bouncing the supply pin under DAC control and monitoring the bus? >From what I understand, it puts the processor into an indeterminate state occasionally, and allows you to access the bus of a protected ROM in the CPU. Secure microcontrollers are apparently, not that secure. I was looking into homebuilt spectrum analyzers (I'm KF7CJW) and ran across this hack from a kiddies texting IM toy, its a GHz tuner, display and processor for >$20 http://ossmann.blogspot.com/2010/03/16-pocket-spectrum-analyzer.html Processor glitching is discussed as part of their JTAG reflash of this toy. Not that I actually had to come clean by revealing processor glitching as an innocent discovery on another topic; I've been looking for ways to pick locks most of my life. Randy _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…

16 years, 3 months

3
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RD53 Restoration

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

Yes "blipping" the coil with a 9V battery moves the heads. When the drive was powered on I also measured the voltage by attaching a probe to each end of the coil cable, in that case I measured about 1.3V only. So I am guessing the coil is OK. Next step is to swap the boards back again. Regards Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt > Sent: 16 May 2010 20:13 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: RD53 Restoration > > Thanks, never thought of the obvious, will dig out a 9V battery and try > that. > > Thanks again. > > Regards > > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > > Sent: 16 May 2010 20:03 > > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: RD53 Restoration > > > > > > > > Many thanks for the reply. I am not an electronics expert > > unfortunately, but > > > > Alas sometimes I forget that not everyone had a mis-sepnt > shildhood... > > > > > will look at your suggestions. One thing I did (perhaps wrongly) > was > > measure > > > the voltage with one probe connected to the casing, not to the > other > > pin on > > > > This problaby is not the right thing to do. The point is that you > need > > to > > be able to pass a crurrent through the positioner coil in either > > direction (one way will exert a force to move the heads towards the > > spindle, the other way will exert a force to move the heads away form > > the > > spindle). Now if you had one side of the coil grounded (same voltage > as > > the chassis) yoy would need power supplies of both polarities wrt > > ground > > to be able to do that. > > > > What is more commonly done is a circuit based on what is called a > 'full > > H > > driver. Basiecaly it means both sides of the load (the coil in this > > case) > > can be driven. If one side is pulled towards ground tand the otehr > side > > to, wayu, +12V, the heads moce one way. But if the first side is > taken > > to > > +12V and hte second side to ground they move the other way. > > > > If oyu measure the voltage wrt ground on one end of the coil you are, > > effectively, only testing half the circuit. There could still be a > > fault. > > > > > the cable. I will try across the two pins to see what that is like. > I > > don't > > > have a DC supply I can use to "blip" the coil, unless I can press > the > > PSU > > > > Sure you do. I bet you'd get some movement using a small battery. P > > > > > from my MicroVAX II into service for this? Is there a danger I > might > > pass > > > too much current and burn the coil? > > > > There is, which is why you 'blip' it. Actually, a battery is probably > > the > > safest, a primary (non-recharageable) 9V battery is not going to > supply > > enough current to do much damage. > > > > -tony

16 years, 3 months

1
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MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 Memory Problem

by david＠marmotking.com

I have a MicroVAX 2000 motherboard which boots fine unless I plug in a 4MB memory expansion card. I already tried the following: [1] Attempted to boot with a different 4MB card. Doesn't work. [2] Booted a different MicroVAX 2000 motherboard with the original memory card. Worked. So, it would seem that the problem isn't with the memory card, since the card appears to work on another machine and another machine's card doesn't work on this machine. However, the odd thing is that it worked just 5 minutes ago. I know, if something's going to fail it has to fail sometime. Is there anything I should be looking for? Jumpers I should wiggle or anything like that? I'm doing this with the motherboad just sitting on the desk connected to a power supply and console cable (a special cable with pins 7 and 8 shorted) to make it a MicroVAX 2000 console cable.

16 years, 3 months

4
4
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RD53 Restoration

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> > Many thanks for the reply. I am not an electronics expert unfortunately, but Alas sometimes I forget that not everyone had a mis-sepnt shildhood... > will look at your suggestions. One thing I did (perhaps wrongly) was measure > the voltage with one probe connected to the casing, not to the other pin on This problaby is not the right thing to do. The point is that you need to be able to pass a crurrent through the positioner coil in either direction (one way will exert a force to move the heads towards the spindle, the other way will exert a force to move the heads away form the spindle). Now if you had one side of the coil grounded (same voltage as the chassis) yoy would need power supplies of both polarities wrt ground to be able to do that. What is more commonly done is a circuit based on what is called a 'full H driver. Basiecaly it means both sides of the load (the coil in this case) can be driven. If one side is pulled towards ground tand the otehr side to, wayu, +12V, the heads moce one way. But if the first side is taken to +12V and hte second side to ground they move the other way. If oyu measure the voltage wrt ground on one end of the coil you are, effectively, only testing half the circuit. There could still be a fault. > the cable. I will try across the two pins to see what that is like. I don't > have a DC supply I can use to "blip" the coil, unless I can press the PSU Sure you do. I bet you'd get some movement using a small battery. P > from my MicroVAX II into service for this? Is there a danger I might pass > too much current and burn the coil? There is, which is why you 'blip' it. Actually, a battery is probably the safest, a primary (non-recharageable) 9V battery is not going to supply enough current to do much damage. -tony

16 years, 3 months

2
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Microcornucopia Magazine - Url correct

by elazzerini＠interfree.it

Hi, i correct the 2nd wrong url. Hi at all, today i begun to scan my issues. At this moment i done MICRO CORNUCOPIA No.14 Oct 1983 http://web.tiscali.it/enrico.lazzerini/MICRO_CORNUCOPIA_No.14_Oct_1983.pdf and MICRO CORNUCOPIA No.16 Feb 1984 http://web.tiscali.it/enrico.lazzerini/MICRO_CORNUCOPIA_No.16_Feb_1984.pdf Is out there who has issues from 1 to 11 and would scan some his issues??? I think this would be the only change we have to : - gain issues we not have - save this wonderful past and defunt magazine Regards Enrico

16 years, 3 months

1
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RD53 Restoration

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> > I have posted before about an RD53 I am trying to get back to working order. > After unsticking the heads I thought I had a working disk as I have been > able to format it and do an image restore of the VMS installation media to > it. However, intermittently it has been failing. When this happens the heads > completely fail to move when I power on the disk, so the controller and > firmware cannot even determine its size. After a few moments the disk spins > down. As I said, this is intermittent, sometimes it will work OK. > > A friend has been helping me and he gave me a complete set of the three > boards in the RD53 from a known working disk (he can't give me the disk for I will pretend I didn't read that... > reasons not worth going into). I changed all three boards and the drive > still completely fails to move the heads, in fact now the fault seems > permanent. My friend suggested that the positioning coil may be faulty. He > measured the resistance of the coil on one of his working disks (at the plug > that goes to the coil from the motor control board), it came to 3 ohms, mine > also measured 3 ohms. I measured the voltage at the plug going to the coil, > one reads 2V the other 3V, but when it works they both go to about 5V. I assume you mean the voltage between the pins on the plug, that is the voltage across the coil. As I am sure you know, the positioner is simple in concept. It relies on the magnetic attraiction and replusion between the coil and a fixed permanent magnet. If there is current through the coil, there must be a force (I have never heard of a permanent magnet going intermittant!). You are applying a voltage to the voice coil. Is it the smae polarity in both cases (is it possible that you are trying to move the heads in the wrong direction)? I asusme you didn't plug the coil in backwards!). But even wih the voltage applied, are you sure there's a current? Could be be something as simple as a back contact at the connector? What about a hairline crack in the flexpriint to the coil? It may work OK when the ohmeter is conencted and fail in the operating posiiton (yes I have seen faults a senaky as that!). is there any form of head locking device? If so, is it being releaed? With the disk spinning (essential!), what happend if you 'blip' a DC supply across the posiitoned coil with the latter disconnected from the PCB? Do the heads move then? If you undo the board swap and go back to boards that you know worked on this drive, do you get it working properly sometimes? -tony

16 years, 3 months

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RD53 Restoration

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I have posted before about an RD53 I am trying to get back to working order. After unsticking the heads I thought I had a working disk as I have been able to format it and do an image restore of the VMS installation media to it. However, intermittently it has been failing. When this happens the heads completely fail to move when I power on the disk, so the controller and firmware cannot even determine its size. After a few moments the disk spins down. As I said, this is intermittent, sometimes it will work OK. A friend has been helping me and he gave me a complete set of the three boards in the RD53 from a known working disk (he can't give me the disk for reasons not worth going into). I changed all three boards and the drive still completely fails to move the heads, in fact now the fault seems permanent. My friend suggested that the positioning coil may be faulty. He measured the resistance of the coil on one of his working disks (at the plug that goes to the coil from the motor control board), it came to 3 ohms, mine also measured 3 ohms. I measured the voltage at the plug going to the coil, one reads 2V the other 3V, but when it works they both go to about 5V. Can anyone suggest what might be the problem? Thanks Rob

16 years, 3 months

1
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offer: manual

by rtellason＠verizon.net

Anybody want an Epson RX-80 User's Manual before I toss it? Please contact me off-list... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

16 years, 3 months

1
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Anyone pick up the Manx ball yet?

by steve＠cosam.org

Towards the end of last year, the Manx documentation catalogue was pronounced dead by its maintainer and taken offline. Understandably, many pleas for a dump of the database followed, and this was subsequently made available. Thankfully the site was soon up again, although no longer maintained and apparently missing a few PDFs. Since then it seems to have gone quiet. Did anyone end up doing anything with the dump, or were all the requests for this simply to ensure that the raw data was preserved? Cheers, -- Steve Maddison http://www.cosam.org/

16 years, 3 months

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Amiga 1000 helps win against patent troll...

by ken＠seefried.com

PJ writes an unabashedly fawning article highlighting the value of old computers and the classic computer community in the context of patent litigation, and predictably that community shits on her because she doesn't have a dedicated practitioner of obscure arts understanding of how 20 year old computers can be preserved. Somehow, I think a paralegal (hint: non-technical) in her (I think) 30s not steeped in computer history beyond the SCO case can be given a pass there, but clearly some of you, the predictable ones, have different ideas.

16 years, 3 months

2
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VMware appliances

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I was curious to see if anyone mentioned VMware as an emulation environment on this list. The archives show a brief conversation about it in 2002 regarding whether it could run OS/2. I've been using it for a client's servers for the past few months and it is mind-blowing. Drag-and-drop, super-fast start and stop of entire virtual servers. One of VMware's demo appliances is a DOS environment running old games. Linux large and small is a common OS in appliances, too. With the free VMware Workstation version, you can easily click-click and be running a downloaded appliance. So why aren't we using VMware appliance images to exchange pre-made, pre-set environments for running emulated OSes? - John

16 years, 3 months

13
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FFS or pickup: "almost complete" Aquarius set, Apple II drive, etc.

by spectre＠floodgap.com

I am at work thinning down the ranks for a possible move in a few weeks, so here are the first things that need to go: - An "almost complete" Mattel Aquarius system, the system of the 1970s from the 1980s. I rather enjoyed playing with this but it's a terribly limited machine and I had nowhere to keep it hooked up, so I regretfully must bid it farewell. Working when stored. Main unit, tape storage, thermal printer (this one is a bit iffy), mini-expander with controllers and 2x 16K RAM expansions. Also has (loose) Utopia, FinForm and FileForm (the pathetic attempt at productivity apps), and Night Stalker, and (boxed) Utopia, Tron Deadly Discs, Biorhythms (see, I said it was the System of the 1970s) and Night Stalker, and a complete unopened Logo language kit. I'm pretty sure I have the modem too, but I can't find it (I will ship it separately if I do). Has most of the manuals and all of the kitsch. I will not part this out. - Third-party Disk ][ clone (says "Fourth"). Two drives for connection to a standard disk controller card (not a UniDisk or floppy port connection). Working when stored. Pick it up from Inland Empire region, California; or cost of shipping. I'll consider shipping internationally, but USA requests get priority simply because it's easier and cheaper. These guys need to be gone one way or another by the end of the month. More likely to come. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Consider the lilac. And while you're doing that, I'll go through your stuff.

16 years, 3 months

1
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Greatest videogame device (was Re: An option - Re: thebeginningof

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 13 May 2010, at 18:00, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 07:22:59 -0500 > From: John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> > Subject: Re: Greatest videogame device (was Re: An option - Re: > thebeginningof > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <201005131228.o4DCSXPC034526 at billY.EZWIND.NET> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > At 04:15 AM 5/13/2010, Roger Holmes wrote: >> To me a number is a number and that was b......t but the problem is US has a bit too much influence on broadcasting, you only have to look at the questions on the UK version of 'who wants to be a millionaire' where they asked what you would do with a 'brown betty' in a fairly low value question. > > Another phrase with a British meaning and a USAian meaning. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Betty > >> I have no problem with the many americanisms in my life but to me numbers are sacrosanct. Just because a single US journalist made a mistake in the 1930s should not make us all roll over and play dead on a matter of principal. > > Principal? Are we talking about money again, or values? There's a principle at stake! Ok so I make spelling mistakes. I meant principle not principal. English is a language generally defined by common usage not statute but if we allow that anyone can redefine some number, any number to mean something different we are on a very slippery slope leading to mayhem. Just because the numbers are ones which few people used back in the 1930 does not mean that nobody used them, otherwise they would not have existed. We now have the ludicrous situation that we have to consider when a number was used, which side of the atlantic it was said, whether it refers to monetary units or some other meaning and carry round a table in our heads of so if I read a scientific american book written in say 1920 which refers to so many billion atoms then I know it is 10^12 but a similar book written twenty years later would be 10^9 and if it was written in the UK in 1940 it meant 10^12 but if I read something written in 2000 by a BBC economic journalist about dollars or pounds or euros it means 10^9 but if the same journalist wrote about the price of a billion grammes of water he would mean 10^12 according to the BBC rules. The principle is that numbers are not context sensitive. Roger.

16 years, 3 months

1
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Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 9 May 2010, at 00:02, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Message: 28 > Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 15:12:25 +0100 > From: "Andrew Burton" <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: Re: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <013701caef02$62da30c0$87fdf93e at user8459cef6fa> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:08 PM > Subject: RE: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN > > >> >> I taught beginning FORTRAN in the 1980s at Merritt College (community >> college), and would not mind doing it again, if we could get a quorum for >> the classes. >> COBOL is gone from our curriculum :-( >> RPG is gone from our curriculum :-) >> FORTRAN is gone from our curriculum :-( >> APL is gone from our curriculum :-( >> BASIC is gone from our curriculum :-( >> The administration has cancelled C >> The administration has cancelled C# >> The administration has cancelled ASM >> We are down to "Using Microsoft Office", "VISUAL BASIC", >> and C++ (slated for cancellation soon) >> >> The CIS departments are circling the drain. >> > > That sucks. Indeed. > I am *so* glad I never went on to further education after > secondary school. I have learnt more on my own (thanks to books, people on > this list and retro computers) than I ever would have in *modern courses*. A > piece of paper doesn't make me a good coder, good software written by me > does. Fair enough but I am glad that I took a computer science degree (1971-74), though I must say that some of the people on my course who got better grade degrees used to come to me for advice when their programs did not work. There is now a degrading of the term programming to include entering data on things like an on board computer of a car to configuring spreadsheets and designing web pages. > How can BASIC not be taught? Every computer has it's own version of BASIC, Sorry I have to disagree there. There are MANY computers including modern ones which do not support BASIC. If you restrict it to modern desktop and laptop machines then you are probably correct but you are ignoring many pre 1980 machines and nearly all the embedded computers like PIC chips. A better choice would be C with the 1999 extensions. C++ is a good language but probably not for beginners as it is to easy to write opaque programs which beginners seem to think are good code because they are clever. As I hope all here would agree, a good program is the simplest you can write to do the required task, and that will mean it is easy to maintain (given adequate variable/function/method names and comments for the concepts you woke up with in the middle of the night). Or Pascal. I think almost any block structured language is better for beginners than Basic. > whereas (as I understand it) Visual Basic is only available for modern > computers.

16 years, 3 months

16
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Amiga 1000 helps win against patent troll...

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

A fairly recent study has shown that any reusable launch system would have to be used at a rate around 100 times that of the shuttle to be economically advantageous over an expendable system. I wonder how they missed that calculation back in the 70s? Each shuttle mission, no matter what it's carrying, costs as much or more than an ambitious multi-year robotics mission to Mars. And the $150 billion orbiting hotel in search of a real mission that sucks funds away from real space science, the ISS, should be disassembled and de-orbited immediately before it sucks even more money away from the robotic exploration of our solar system. Robotic missions not only generate vastly more scientific payback per dollar spent, but they don't risk lives and they develop robotic and AI technologies that are potentially useful here on Earth, too. Here's an interesting 1974 popular Science article on what a bargain the Space Shuttle would be: http://books.google.com/books?id=tE0idc3G364C&lpg=PA70&ots=oONm3QBOYm&dq=10…

16 years, 3 months

1
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RK05 disk on eBay

by hachti＠hachti.de

RK05 12 sector disk pack. New and in the box. Yes, it's me selling them. No, not sorry for posting here - selling for a third party. Ebay No. 190397088171 Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190397088171 Regards, Philipp :-) -- http://www.hachti.de

16 years, 3 months

1
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Omnibus memory available

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, any need for pdp8/e Omnibus memory? Talking about ====> G104/H220/G227 (4K system) board triples without top connectors The stuff is offered as tested working. Not something "might have been pulled from a working machine (saw some lights when applying power)" or "pulled from a working system a few years ago" or "was ok in 1983". I'm checking the boards using the extended memory exerciser maindec-08-dhkma-c in my pdp8/e test machine. Right now. 4 top connectors are needed for each triple. Sorry, but I cannot provide those at the moment. Selling that on behalf of someone else. I promised to convert it to some $$$ for him. Best wishes, Philipp -- http://www.hachti.de

16 years, 3 months

1
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Longevity (Was: Re: Amiga 1000 helps win against patent troll...)

by brianlanning＠gmail.com

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu> wrote: > At 12:00 -0500 5/14/10, Brian wrote: >> >> Cars have made it much (much) >> longer than that and still worked, why not computers? > > Well, wait a minute, cars pretty routinely have people go under the hood and > replace stuff. If you look at caps the same way you look at motor oil, the > computers might deserve a little scheduled maintenance too. And not many > batteries have a service life measured in decades (double-takes as he looks > at his Casio wristwatch...). But the items that are getting replaced are the wear items. No one replaces the ECM in a car unless it breaks. Most don't. My complaint about the amiga battery wasn't so much that it wore out, but that it was soldered to the motherboard. And to add insult to injury, it was a battery type that was prone to leak long-term. Electronic systems should be designed with replaceable (without a soldering iron) batteries. With a few notable exceptions (i'm looking at you, ipod) they usually are these days. brian

16 years, 3 months

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Longevity (Was: Re: Amiga 1000 helps win against patent troll...)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 12:00 -0500 5/14/10, Brian wrote: >Cars have made it much (much) >longer than that and still worked, why not computers? Well, wait a minute, cars pretty routinely have people go under the hood and replace stuff. If you look at caps the same way you look at motor oil, the computers might deserve a little scheduled maintenance too. And not many batteries have a service life measured in decades (double-takes as he looks at his Casio wristwatch...). -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

16 years, 3 months

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Last day for John Blankenbaker's Kenbak-1

by classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com

eBay item number: 320522921808 This is one of John's original hand-built machines. Details in the auction. It's at $6,400 now. I personally expect that to more than triple by the end, but that's just me. :) Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum - The Vintage Computer Forums marketplace.vintage-computer.com - The Vintage Computer and Gaming Marketplace

16 years, 3 months

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Shipping floppy drives - Disk in or out?

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

When floppy drives were new, they usually came with that cardboard piece inserted, and with the drive door closed. When shipping a floppy drive, is it really best to have something closed in the drive? I'm talking about single head 5 1/4" drives here. I've seen several methods: Nothing inserted, drive open nothing inserted, drive closed Disk inserted, drive closed cardboard protector, drive closed disk, in sleeve, inserted *sideways*, drive open (can't close it like that) disk inserted backwards, drive closed. Now, on a single head full height drive, there really isn't a whole lot to damage. The sping on the lever mechanism is pretty strong, so it's unlikely that it'll slam down and hit the head unless it's really dropped hard. And, if it does, it's just got a fuzzy pressure pad there - not another head. Also, with something as thin as a disk inserted, does it really protect anything? I suppose that the closed position is more stable, since then the mechanism would be fairly solid, and you'd have less chance of damaging the drive door, but would that mean any shock would press on the head? A similar question would probably be - when single head full height drives were new, did they ship with a cardboard protector? I primarily only remember those from the half height and double sided drives. And only once have I seen one for a 3 1/2" drive (it was basically a solid plastic disk). And I also remember getting some new high density 5 1/4" drives that were not shipped with a protector. -Ian

16 years, 3 months

6
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HP3000 Series 37 Front Panel Key

by dm561＠torfree.net

----------------Original Message: From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: HP3000 Series 37 Front Panel Key > > Lee, > > I've got a micro 37 and the key is like nothing I've ever seen before. It's > a flat bar about 3/16" of an inch wide and 7/16" long. There are a series of > holes drilled in the sides of the key of varying depth. If that's the same > one you computer needs, I've got no idea where you'de find one :-( If I am understanding the description correctly, this sounds like a smaller version of the keys used on some VAG (Volkswagen, etc) cars. As you imply, it's the hole depth that varies from key to key. --------------Reply: Same type of key used by late model Cromemcos (KABA Micro?). mike

16 years, 3 months

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Greatest videogame device (was Re: An option - Re: thebeginningof

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 10 May 2010, at 21:29, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > Message: 26 > Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 13:28:32 -0700 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Subject: Re: Greatest videogame device (was Re: An option - Re: > thebeginningof > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4BE80A00.31785.DF06BA at cclist.sydex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On 10 May 2010 at 19:11, Andrew Burton wrote: > >> So if someone in the US orders a billion <insert item here> from a >> company in the UK, how many of the item should they expect to >> receive?! Is that why orders are given in numbers and not words, and >> why cheques have both? > > Well, as I mentioned, I listen to the BBC World Service a lot and > today they were taling about the ECB bailout fund as being one > Trillion dollars. > > Economics aside, I don't think they were talking about 10**18 > simoleons, unless they were Zimbabwean simoleons. > > If the BBC uses the short form billion, trillion, then it's pretty > safe to assume that the long form is sunsetting. > > --Chuck About ten years ago the BBC made an official statement that when talking about money, a billion would mean a thousand million but elsewhere it would mean a million million. To me a number is a number and that was b......t but the problem is US has a bit too much influence on broadcasting, you only have to look at the questions on the UK version of 'who wants to be a millionaire' where they asked what you would do with a 'brown betty' in a fairly low value question. The contestant and I guess 75% of the audience had no idea. Of course the other 25% might have just guessed randomly. Actually there is really no excuse for creating confusion as they could just as easily talk about GigaPounds or GigaDollars or for 10^12, TeraPounds/Dollars. I have no problem with the many americanisms in my life but to me numbers are sacrosanct. Just because a single US journalist made a mistake in the 1930s should not make us all roll over and play dead on a matter of principal. Roger (UK born and bred)

16 years, 3 months

7
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Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by nigel.d.williams＠gmail.com

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote: > On 5/6/10 6:21 PM, Nigel Williams wrote: > >> I wonder if Apple would be now willing to release a copy of Lisa C >> compiler >> (beta) - the beta release (only) included the headers/support to allow C >> applications to be compiled targeting Lisa (instead of just Macintosh); >> and >> Lisa FORTRAN is still to be found too. >> >> I doubt anyone inside the company would know if copies still exist. > Bruce > Daniels might know, but I think it would be pretty tough to find. Hopefully, someone will find this thread and remember they kept a copy > I'm guessing > Lisa FORTRAN would have come from SVS (Silicon Valley Software) who put one > out for the 68K around the same time as their non-interpreted Pascal which > Apple > used on Mac and Lisa and also as the starting point for the MPW C compiler. > Agree that FORTRAN probably came from SVS. David Craig had this to say about Lisa C: ... this C compiler was written by Green Hills. From what I recall about this from talking to a member of Apple's Lisa development team, this compiler was created under contract and Apple itself did not have any people who maintained this compiler. As such, this compiler had a very short life. I also believe that Apple's later Macintosh MPW C compiler was written in MPW Pascal and maintained by Apple. A later C compiler was written in C. Note also that Lisa C could only generate Macintosh object files, not Lisa object files (the Lisa's obj files were much more complex that the Mac's due to the Lisa's need to support a virtual memory segmented architecture). >From the Lisa C manual: "If you know of someone with a Beta version, then you can use it to generate Lisa code. The Lisa support was stripped out of the final version".

16 years, 3 months

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IBM System 360 Model 91 operator console from 1969

by leolists＠seidkr.com

On 5/11/2010 3:25 PM, dh wrote: > I will be moving and may need to place it in a new home. It is huge: 6x4x2 > feet with over 2100 lights. Currently in Raleigh, NC, USA. Serious inquiries > only please. Kind Regards, Daniel That would be cool. But I am too far away.

16 years, 3 months

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Sigh, progresss is.....

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

Ben wrote: > I wonder if OS/8 on a PDP-8 will still be around in +200 years? No, but someone will have a DECTape labelded "Windows 2010 for the PDP-8" along with a directory listing and an expert witness saying that it's real. Tim.

16 years, 3 months

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How I met your motherboard

by christian_liendo＠yahoo.com

A guy started a website called How I met your motherboard.. http://howimetyourmotherboard.com/ The NY Times interviews him on their podcast http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/tech-talk-podcast-ancient-pcs/?ref… The podcast is not as interesting as the site.

16 years, 3 months

1
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Sigh, progresss is.....

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

> How do you have MFM drives and nothing else of that vintage around? I'm not the OP, but by the late 80's my impression was that even the best of the MFM drives were pretty crappy in terms of reliability. In the early 90's in the minicomputer surplus streams good SMD and then ESDI drives and then SCSI became available (not necessarily free but affordable) and the best of these were built like tanks. In the mid-90's in the PC-clone surplus streams MFM drives were a dime a dozen. But most had never been in a 5150, they were from clones of the early AT era before IDE took over in that market. While putting a MFM hard drive into a 5150 was possible in any number of ways and certainly the power users did so, the vast majority of institutional 5150's (ones owned by businesses, hospitals, governments, schools) I saw were never taken beyond floppy drives. Every so often I'd see one with no floppies, just the cassette interface :-), those are the ones I took note of! Probably bought by the "power loser" instead of the "power user" crowd... the line could be incredibly thin sometimes! Tim.

16 years, 3 months

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wanted: Grid Compass 110x series equipment

by stuart＠zen.co.uk

Hi everyone, I'm looking to acquire a system and peripherals for the Grid Compass 1101. I did have a system several years ago and would keenly like to get hold of another one. Good price paid for someone willing to ship to the UK. Thanks! Stuart.

16 years, 3 months

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scsi-ide bridge LUNs

by chd＠chdickman.com

I have an ACARD AEC-7720U that I have been using in a VS4000/90 with good results. I am trying to compare different versions of NetBSD. I would like to split a 30GB IDE drive into 4 or so logical units. I don't know much about SCSI really, but I believe that it is possible to divide some drives into individually addressable logical drives, sort of like partitions, but at the hardware level. Can somebody enlighten me on SCSI LUNs, at least as far as they apply to dividing disks? Does SCSI define how to divide a disk, or is that proprietary to the drive? Since in my case the bridge is the "drive" would I need a specific utility from ACARD for this? -chuck

16 years, 3 months

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Sigh, progresss is.....

by jdr_use＠bluewin.ch

when you are trying to revive an IBM 5150, that : - you do not have a single AT powersupply in the house, just 20 ATX PS - do not have a single PC compatible keyboard, but 10 AT & 10 PS2 keyboards - at least 50% of your MFM drives have passed away in their sleep. - you don't remember which is the last DOS version that runs on a standard 5150 Time to grow up I guess. Jos

16 years, 3 months

15
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Commodore C2N tape drive belt replacement?

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

Hi, All, I've been fiddling with PETs lately and have found to my dismay that my original c. 1978 C2N just doesn't push the tape along as fast as it should. I opened it up, cleaned some minor funk out of the innards, but the old drive belt is just a little sloppy and has a kink on it where it sat around the motor pulley for a number of years between uses. The symptom is that FF and REW speeds are not uniform, there's no real "grab" when pulling on the belt or manually spinning different pulleys, and there is visible slackness in the belt. Loads are spotty, and they mostly fail. The "secret" trick of holding down the ">" key when the tape is moving does show that the CPU sees flux transitions, but it fails to recognize what's on the tape(s) as valid data most of the time. I know the tapes are good, and a slipping belt explains all the observed symptoms. It's an easy enough part to replace, but does anyone know where to get a proper replacement from? It's a continuous rubber belt, with a square cross-section just under 1mm on a side, probably about 250mm- 300mm long, give or take a bit (I didn't measure it). It looks entirely ordinary in the context of 1970s cassette transports. Thanks,

16 years, 3 months

6
5
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IBM System 360 Model 91 operator console from 1969

by d.house＠computer.org

Sorry I forgot . here is a picture. http://www.thegalleryofoldiron.com/36091CART.JPG Regards, Daniel

16 years, 3 months

1
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School (Was: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by jfoust＠threedee.com

A Brief, Incomplete, and Mostly Wrong History of Programming Languages http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html - John

16 years, 3 months

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Commodore C2N tape drive belt replacement?

by Hollandia＠ccountry.net

Mr. Dicks, Failing a replacement BELT, here is something else that you might try. I have no idea how well it would work. Ordinary automotive oil seals have within them a garter spring, that goes around the lip of the seal and provides some pressure on the sealing surface. These springs are easy to find: they are on the outside of the lip (usually) hidden behind a small flap of rubber. Push this flap toward the radial center of the seal and you can see the spring. It is simple to extract with a fingernail. If you need to thread the spring through something to get it on the pulleys, the spring has a conical end that threads into a square-cut end. Naturally the spring has elasticity; I don't know if this will defeat its purpose or not. If a belt cannot be obtained, you might try this. Kurt >Hi, All, > >I've been fiddling with PETs lately and have found to my dismay that >my original c. 1978 C2N just doesn't push the tape along as fast as it should. >I opened it up, cleaned some minor funk out of the innards, but the old drive >belt is just a little sloppy and has a kink on it where it sat around the motor >pulley for a number of years between uses. The symptom is that FF and REW >speeds are not uniform, there's no real "grab" when pulling on the belt or >manually spinning different pulleys, and there is visible slackness in the >belt. Loads are spotty, and they mostly fail. The "secret" trick of >holding down >the ">" key when the tape is moving does show that the CPU sees flux >transitions, but it fails to recognize what's on the tape(s) as valid data most >of the time. I know the tapes are good, and a slipping belt explains all the >observed symptoms. > >It's an easy enough part to replace, but does anyone know where to >get a proper replacement from? It's a continuous rubber belt, with a >square cross-section just under 1mm on a side, probably about 250mm- >300mm long, give or take a bit (I didn't measure it). It looks entirely >ordinary in the context of 1970s cassette transports. > >Thanks, > >

16 years, 3 months

1
0
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IBM System 360 Model 91 operator console from 1969

by d.house＠computer.org

I will be moving and may need to place it in a new home. It is huge: 6x4x2 feet with over 2100 lights. Currently in Raleigh, NC, USA. Serious inquiries only please. Kind Regards, Daniel

16 years, 3 months

1
0
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Teaching(Was: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by trag＠io.com

> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:12:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > I used to be able to get K&R past them by calling it "a classic work", and > by declaring it to be one of two texts for the class (the other being some > modern POS that we never bothered to open) > > For a FIRST class in C, the commonly used textbooks are Deitel (600p, of > which 300 are about C, plus discussion of C++, Java, etc.), and "C Primer > Plus". Both are pretty good for beginners, but neither prepares the > student for what will happen when scanf is fed unformatted/sloppy data. The clearest C book for beginners that I've read was "C: Step-by-Step" by Waite & Prata. It actually teaches the material, rather than just throwing it on the floor and hoping the student will pick it up. Supplemented by K&R it made an excellent teaching vehicle. My opinion and obviously different folks learn in different manners, but I felt that Waite & Prata filled in the holes better and left fewer unexplained assumptions than other works that I have seen. And it won't give one back problems the way Deitel will. Jeff Walther

16 years, 3 months

3
2
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VSV21-AA (M7656) Qbus graphics card

by bqt＠softjar.se

Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote: > Can anyone tell me about this product? I found it in the module list > described as follows: > > M7656 VSV21-AA Q Colour graphics module: M68K processor, HD63486 > M7656 video processor (512x512 or 512x256 resolution), > M7656 Serial ports for mouse, trackball, console and > M7656 LK201. > > I'm interested in knowing what software products support this. For > instance, if I put this card in a Qbus VAXserver 4000/300, will it > enable me to run DECwindows locally? No, since there is no X server written that can use the VSV21. There is a device driver, and a library with various functions available for both VMS and RSX. The graphic card can actually run in a couple of other resolutions as well. I have mine set at 640x480. Johnny

16 years, 3 months

1
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new acquisitions

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

IBM 7374 plotter. Missing the damned carousel. Haven't plugged it in yet, so not even sure it's functional. Something tells me, being it's an IBM, spare circuit parts, as needed, will be the least of my worries. If anyone has a junker and would let me scrounge a few items from it, I'll remember them in my prayers. Promise :). Besides pay reasonable costs + shipping. Jameco eprom/gal/pal/?/?/?. 6502 based (primarily at least). Non-functional. BUT OF COURSE. I'm not terribly worried, being I've also obtained - Tektronix 5440 scope. Already have a 2216. So the combined might of these 2 monsters of engineering will undoubtedly aid in the recuperation of the previous item. There were more then a few chips w/stickers on top, so that tells me they're likely custom logic, so I'll need some of that epoxy dissolver in additon. Or a die-grinder and a steady hand. Right? I happen to have a probe I picked up from somewhere in my garbage garage. The inputs on these 2 scopes require 1Mohm wit either 22pF or 47 pF of capacitance. What does this mean? There's simply a capacitor between the coax? The resistance part is strait forward presumably. If that's the case, then you can just jury rig an acceptable probe, no? Also picked up a big huge square HP monitor. Don't know the part # offhand, but has a datecode of 1984. First time I've seen one of these. And I've seen a lot of monitors. I'm sure I'm hoping in vain that it takes digital rgb. I also need help w/G4 Macs and Sun workstations and servers. But that's offtopic and I can look up most of that online. Just in case anyone wanted to chat about it. Offlist of course... Anyone w/any HP-UX stuff they no longer need?

16 years, 3 months

10
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Radio Shack Science Fair manuals

by jgessling＠yahoo.com

I don't have that exact model but I've got a NIB 28-262 Science Fair 200 in 1 set. Box is beat up but inside it looks like it's never been used. Has a manual and loose parts. Not sure all the loose parts are there, there are several bundles of different length wires (never unwrapped) and a single ear phone. Maybe I can talk you into taking the whole thing. Regards, Jim

16 years, 3 months

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Anyone Have Knowledge or Experience on IBM SERIES/1

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

Trebor/Curt, I have an IBM System 1 in my office in Wilmington, Delaware. It was pulled >from production in working order but I have no idea how to get it running. I have a lot of the same components you've described. I worked with an ex-IBM tech for about three hours to do a system inventory and figure out what conntects to what, but that's about as far as we got. I would love some help if anyone is in the MidAtlantic USA area and knows the Series 1 hardware. http://vintagecomputer.net/ibm/Series1/ Bill > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:21:32 -0400 > From: "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com> > Subject: Re: Anyone Have Knowledge or Experience on IBM SERIES/1 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4BE8166C.2020300 at atarimuseum.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Wow, Bob I wish I could help you out. I installed one at Moody's > Investment back around 95-96' or so... I used to have all the technical > manuals and such, its been so damned long, I think I'd be as lost as you > are in trying to get the beastie up and running - gorgeous machines > though, very nice design. > > > Curt > > > > trebor77 at execpc.com wrote: > > I am looking for anyone who has Knowledge or Experience on IBM SERIES/1. I > > have a System in my Basement that hasn't been run for 18 Years. Not sure > > it can be Started up. Its a 4952 Half Rack with a 4955E replacing the > > 4952. Has a 9Meg HD Got an External Floppy. Got a 4978, a 3101, TTY Card. > > I used to Program in EDL on it back in the late 80's early 90's > > Bob > > in Wisconsin > > > > > >

16 years, 3 months

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Anyone Have Knowledge or Experience on IBM SERIES/1

by trebor77＠execpc.com

I am looking for anyone who has Knowledge or Experience on IBM SERIES/1. I have a System in my Basement that hasn't been run for 18 Years. Not sure it can be Started up. Its a 4952 Half Rack with a 4955E replacing the 4952. Has a 9Meg HD Got an External Floppy. Got a 4978, a 3101, TTY Card. I used to Program in EDL on it back in the late 80's early 90's Bob in Wisconsin

16 years, 3 months

2
1
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Equipment Reduction

by melamy＠earthlink.net

I have found myself needing to reduce the area consumed by the systems I have. The list below is what I need to let go of. Send me an email off list if you are interested in making an offer or if you have specific questions - sthatcher @ melamy.com. Local to Kenmore, WA 98028 is better because of shipping costs for some of the items, but I will work with you. Due to age (mine and the equipment), I can make no guarantee that they work or how long they will work if they do - typical old equipment caveats... Best regards, Steve Thatcher 1 - Intel MDS 220 development system (single dd 8" floppy, 8085 processor, 64K memory, operating system on disk). Worked the last time I powered it on (a few years ago). 1 - Intel dual dd floppy drive cabinet (comes with cable that I was building to connect it to the main system) 1 - Intel MDS 210 cabinet (no electronics and no front panel) 1 - Intel iPDS development system (I seem to recall a intermittent power supply issue). 1 - Intel iPDS expansion floppy drive (worked last time I powered it on) 1 - Davidge cpm system (64K, z80, 20 meg hd, 3 1/2" floppy drive - not sure about density) with floppy drive cabinet (one dd 8" floppy drive). Worked the last time I powered it on (a few years ago). 1 - Kaypro 4 in good condition (will have to check functionality). Has OS disk. 1 - Kaypro 10 in good condition (with have to check functionality). Has OS disk also. 1 - Kaypro 2X in good condition (will have to check functionality). Has OS disk. 1 - Prolog 8085 System Analyzer (with pod and manual) 1 - Osborne 1 system with external CRT monitor there is more, I will be adding to this list as I have time.

16 years, 3 months

1
0
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Reasonable shipping method for personal computer?

by trixter＠oldskool.org

I would like to start selling, trading, and donating some of my collection to get it out of the house and into the hands of people who could use them; they range from small classic macs to amigas to 5150s to large pentium-era towers. However, I've been hamstrung by my choices of shipping things that are larger than a book. Choices for shipping in the USA are the USPS, UPS, and FEDEX. The questions begin: - Which one is best for PC-size boxes? - Which one is best for PC-weight boxes? - Which is the most convenient? - Some services pick up from your residential location rather than you having to lug a heavy box to a counter somewhere; does anyone use pickup? If so, which one? Any advice and best practices are appreciated. I am even willing to donate some of this stuff not if it's going to cost $75 a box... -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

16 years, 3 months

4
3
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low cost prototype PCB vendor?

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi! It pains me to ask this, what vendors are hobbyists using for low cost, low quantity prototype PCBs? I've used Advanced Circuits and they've been pretty good. I would love to stick with them as their barebonesPCB is a deal. 33each looks interesting too. However, I am starting to have problems with them unrelated to the PCBs and am investigating what other sources are available. I am trying to get some prototype PCBs to evaluate some S-100 boards in development (S-100 System Monitor Board, S-100 Bus Extender, S-100 Z80 CPU, etc) Any ideas? Constructive suggestions appreciated. Thanks in advance. Have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

16 years, 3 months

11
21
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Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by jonas＠otter.se

Obviously this Dan fellow is a troll and you have all taken the bait... >From: Dan Gahlinger <dgahling at hotmail.com> >Subject: RE: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN >To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <BLU139-W31C114B43954AB9926E817C9F70 at phx.gbl> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >In this case, Fred's just, ok, can't say anything nice, don't say anything, >he's gone to my ignore list, it's better this way... > >as for Valtrep, a lot just personal experience, remember I worked on it, in the 80s and before in the 70s. > >it's interesting even info on the old "Sentry-70" computer system can't be found online, at least, I can't find any. >The Sentry-70 is as it suggests, the last model, and numbered by year. that would be 1970. >It predates the Cyber/Prime system, as much as memory recalls anyhow. > >They had the Sentry-70 at the university I happened to be at, at the time. >I started there in 1976, yeah I know, it's still late for the time periods we're talking about. >However, the systems and languages had been there for a long time before I started. > >There are a few things that lend evidence to these statements, none of which are likely verifiable... > >1. that is how Valtrep was introduced to me (ok, so it's hearsay) >2. more importantly - the structure of the language - and this is more telling. > >It's quite easy to identify a more primitive version of a language when compared to a more modern one. >Syntax, functions, scope, definitions, everything about it. > >Do I have any sample code of Valtrep still around? That's a tough question. >I'm going to guess "NO", however, it is certainly possible. I will definitely look. > >There are a few people who were at the same university with me at the same time, >I can also consult with them and perhaps get some of their memories, >one of them may even have sample code, if only on punch-card or whatever. > >It might be easier [sic] to find info on the computer "Sentry-70", but all my searches thus far have come up blank >on any useful information anyhow. > >I'm willing to cede the argument that Valtrep was the predecessor to Fortran if anyone can offer any evidence to support that. >Perhaps it's an odd claim to make without any backup, but then, I was there, so.... > >Valtrep was very "Fortran-ish" however it didn't have all the functions or capabilities, it was more rudimentary. > >Dan. >

16 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Radio Shack Science Fair manuals

by kgriff156＠comcast.net

I am inquiring to see if you might help me to acquire a 28-249 manual for a 200 in 1 kit I am helping my grandson learn with. The 150 in 1 manual that we have does not match the set up or numbering of components for him to follow. I await your response and thank you for your assistance. Kevin

16 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Unsticking an RD53

by steve＠cosam.org

Rob Jarratt wrote: > A while ago I posted about an RD53 I have which had the problem with the > sticking heads. I have now got to the point where the heads no longer stick > on the bumper, but the disk still does not work correctly. I opened it up > and watched what it did with the cover off. Once it gains speed it moves the > heads out all the way and then they just stay there with the disk spinning. FWIW, I have one that does exactly the same. It is however also a non-runner, so I can't tell you whether that's correct behaviour or not. It certainly /sounds/ the same as my other, working example. > There is a whine coming from the drive, not sure of the source of this > though. Mine had that too. Not sure where it came from, but it stopped when I retightened one of the corner HDA mountings (the ones with the rubber bushes underneath). Cheers, -- Steve Maddison http://www.cosam.org/

16 years, 3 months

2
1
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Procom CD Tower - drivers?

by silent700＠gmail.com

I've dug out of my garage a Procom CDT-7-4X-ET cdrom tower. It's got seven Plextor 4x SCSI drives and It appears to be networkable. Anyone have any idea how to access it over the network? Maybe reset the ethernet module to a known IP? I can't even find a MAC address on the case anywhere. Granted, it's not much as use now as in the days when having 7x640mb online and not having to put it on disc was a big deal, but like all the old junk lying around here, I'd like to see it working once. And I'm thinking the CDROMs could possibly be replaced with hard drives (if supported by the firmware in the tower.) TIA -- jht

16 years, 3 months

4
6
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Looking for a vintage computer for film in Oz...

by cclist＠sydex.com

(Cross-posted from Erik's VC Forum) http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?20406-Wanted- mid-70-s-computer-to-appear-in-film-Bank-scene Cheers, Chuck

16 years, 3 months

3
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Processor sizes (was Greatest videogame device)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 9 May 2010, at 00:02, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Message: 24 > Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 13:37:11 -0700 (PDT) > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Subject: Re: Greatest videogame device (was Re: An option - Re: > thebeginningof > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <20100508132544.P80526 at shell.lmi.net> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Sat, 8 May 2010, Tony Duell wrote: >>>> Is the size of the data bus irrelevant? >>>> (There have been people who maintain that THAT is the measure of the >>>> processor!) >>> >>> They're wrong :-). The "size" of the CPU is defined by the size of the >>> internal registers. I am astonished there is actual discussion debating >>> this. >> >> Ah, so a Z80 is a 16 bit processor (IX, IY, SP and PC are all 16 bits, >> and there is no documented way to use half of them (Yes I do know about >> some of the undocumented ways)). >> >>> >>> I think people who maintain the size of the data bus as being the >>> measure of a CPU are hardware people who have never optimized an inner >>> loop in machine code. No I am first and foremost a programmer who has picked up hardware by buying an old mainframe (before home computers existed) and maintaining it. The 'largest addressable unit of storage' I was taught in my computer science degree is now outdated. I have read many specifications issued by microprocessor manufacturers (who should know what they are talking about surely) who define their computers by their data bus width, for instance Intel define the 8088 as an 8 bit computers system. It the chip maker says their chip is an 8 bit processor why should it become a 16 bit computer when you merely plug that chip into a motherboard and the marketing people call it 16 bit. >> >> Conversely I could claim that those who calim the 8088 is a 16 bit >> processor have never wire-wrapped the data bus connections to one, and >> found there are only 8 to wire up. > > The problem remains that we are trying to come up with a single > quantification for measuring something with multiple variable > characteristics. Yes, and there are other aspects to be considered too. Whilst I have always thought of my ICT1301 as a 48 bit computer because it has a 48 (+ 2 parity) bit data bus but the engineers of the day called it a 4/12 system meaning 4 bits parallel x 12 digits serial. The mill (ALU) is only 4 bits wide but the three arithmetic registers are 48 bits and it had three 24 bit 'control' registers which hold instructions and it has no program counter register at all. > If we were to grossly oversimplify, > and use the most "popular" quantifiers, > we would still have two characteristics to measure. > the 8080 is 8 bit software, 8 bit hardware > the 8088 is 16 bit software, 8 bit hardware. > the 8086 is 16 bit software, 16 bit hardware. > the 80286 is 16 bit software, 16 bit hardware. > the 80386SX is 32 bit software, 16 bit hardware. > the 80386DX is 32 bit software, 32 bit hardware. > the Sentry-70 is unknown. > > But this does not invalidate the measuring systems used for different > types, and it is still trivially easy to come up with defensible ways to > measure with different end results. We should consider what the bit size is used for. To users they expect speed to increase with size. An 8088 and an 8086 or a 68008, 68000 and 68020/30/40 have the same internal architecture but the speed of operation is not the same, the cpu has to go to make more memory accesses with a narrower data bus. This does affect speed and to the poster who referred to "hardware people who have never optimized an inner loop in machine code" I should point out that if he optimised his loop on a machine with an 8 bit data bus and expects that the loop will still be optimal on a 16, 32 or 64 bit data bus processor then he is almost certainly wrong. It won't be far off, and MIGHT be optimal but until you do that again (As I have done MANY times) you cannot be sure it could not be tweaked to give a more optimal loop on a wider data bus width. Even turning off the cache memory can make a bit difference, and on one memory occasion I found that emulated 68k assembler running on a PowerPC ran quicker than the same code re-written in native C on the same PowerPC processor. The code was simply for rotating a one bit deep bit map 90 degrees and after looking in great detail at the generated PPC code the only explanation I could come up with was that the possibility that the 68k emulator turned off the RAM cache which meant that when my code wanted to read a word the PPC was doing four memory accesses to load up the entire cache line, three of which were pointless because for a large bitmap they would be purged before the other three were used, whereas the 68k emulator just did one memory access. I imaging the emulator locked the cache so its own code would not be purged. Roger Holmes. > > > Now, what are the definitions of "microcomputer", "minicomputer", > "mainframe"?

16 years, 3 months

1
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Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 9 May 2010, at 00:02, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 13:26:17 -0400 > From: Dan Gahlinger <dgahling at hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <BLU139-W2772A8B808F739798BAD2C9F70 at phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > technically, looms count, they have to, to know how many times to do a particular pattern. > that would make such programming language back into the 17th century at least ;) I think you have missed the point that this is a discussion of high level languages. I have not heard that any 17th century loom had a high level language. > >> Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 01:00:14 -0600 >> From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca >> To: >> Subject: Re: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN >> >> Dan Gahlinger wrote: >> >>> Fortran the first high-level language, I think that would be open to >>> debate. Indeed, wikipedia says otherwise... and I quote: >>> >>> The first high-level programming language to be designed for a >>> computer was Plankalk?l, developed for the German Z3 by Konrad Zuse >>> between 1943 and 1945. >>> >>> LISP, COBOL and Algol are also mentioned during the 1950s, so "first" >>> is perhaps debateable. Do we count the programmable "Looms" ? >> >> Only if they can count. :) >> >>> There are questions I can't answer at this time. I can just say, from >>> memory, Valtrep was more "primitive" than Fortran, and yet, very >>> "fortran-like", as I said, if you could program Fortran, Valtrep >>> would be easy to pick up. >> It seems to me unlikely, that you would have any other high level >> programs other than a possible assembler and link loader with a few >> odd utility closed subroutines. >> >>> I can't find any information on it, nor can I find any information on >>> the computer system it ran on (that's bad). >>> >>> so to be fair, I'll mark this and file it as "questionable"/"suspect" >>> until some evidence can be shown either way. >> >>> Dan. >>> _________________________________________________________________ Win >>> a $10,000 shopping spree from Hotmail! Enter now. >>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729711 >> >

16 years, 3 months

1
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Valtrep is the PREDECESSOR to Fortran (was Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN)

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

Fred writes: > On Fri, 7 May 2010, Randy Dawson wrote: >> put valtrep in quotes on your google search. This cuts back on the >> offending valtrex hits. >> Its there, but in recent history, nowhere near the genesis of FORTRAN. > When I did, I got 28 hits. Other than "Valtrep Optical Scanning > Software", the only computer related ones were message posts by somebody > with a username of "transnet", who "used a Sentry-70 with Valtrep in > 1986", and signed some of his posts with "Dan." > (complete with the period, similar to our "Dan.") > Did you get some hits that I didn't? I think the "is transnet really Dan Gallingher" question is exactly like the "is Tony Clifton really Andy Kaufman" question. Tim.

16 years, 3 months

4
3
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Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

Fred writes: > In terms of being noticably more primitive, let me offer a hypothesis of > an honest way that Dan could be mistaken: It is not at all uncommon for > universities to proudly use software, including compilers, that were > written by students there. Such student written materials may be quite a > bit cruder, and lacking many refinements. Did your first attempt at > writing a C compiler include floating point? It may not always be > feasable to differentiate between earlier software V modern early efforts > by talented programming students. After all, that seems to be how we > ended up with the UCSD Pascal and P-System, in which certain > characteristics are noticably more primitive than much of the commercial > software of the time, while certain other characteristics may be novel and > innovative. Many languages of the 60's and 70's were horribly over-specified and the "full language" in fact had a lot of features that were not desirable. Some of these were developed at schools as local products that were never released, and others did become products with a life outside the school. Others were developed by minicomputer companies because the "full mainframe language" was not practicable on the mini. e.g. WATFIV was like FORTRAN but eliminated the separate complie/link/execute phases and could collapse them. It extended the language in some directions while collapsing it in others. Later on came RATFOR which went in a different direction, adding structured elements onto FORTRAN. e.g. BASIC was supposed to be a simplified version of FORTRAN or ALGOL, but in fact it was simplified even further into things like PILOT. e.g. COBOL is, even today, cantankerous but some concepts from it went into the much streamlined DIBOL. (I hava a sweet spot for DIBOL.) I think a very important concept, is that having more features in a language, especially when those features were specified by a committee, results in an overly complicated overly large cantankerous language. Too bad most people still get sold on features :-(. It's like the DVD players with 141 buttons on the remote - people buy it because it has more buttons or functions, to the point where putting more buttons on becomes a marketing function, not a usability function. Tim.

16 years, 3 months

2
1
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Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by cisin＠xenosoft.com

On Fri, 7 May 2010, Rob Jarratt wrote: > I can't say I have ever heard of Valtrep before and my attempts at searching > the web do not reveal any definitive information. The only immediate hits that came up on GOOGLE were somebody named Dan, in one place identified as "Transnet" mentioning that he used Valtrep on Stride-70 in 1986 and that it was the predecessor to FORTRAN. Dan says that he has no idea who that is. > What definitive information do you have on Valtrep to say that it > predates FORTRAN? FORTRAN dates back to the 1950s. 1954 Backus at IBM if I recall correctly. Google doesn't show any mention by Backus "written from scratch" of Valtrep, and, in fact NO mention of Valtrep by anybody not named "Dan". There were some HLLs before FORTRAN, but FORTRAN was the first "successful" one, and Backus did not give credit to Valtrep. > PS I think personal attacks have no place on this list. If someone has > misinterpreted what you say, then explain what you meant, because it is > always possible that you might not have been clear the first time. I can understand that it gets frustrating when people misinterpret ambiguous statements. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

16 years, 3 months

3
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Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN

by dgahling＠hotmail.com

In this case, Fred's just, ok, can't say anything nice, don't say anything, he's gone to my ignore list, it's better this way... as for Valtrep, a lot just personal experience, remember I worked on it, in the 80s and before in the 70s. it's interesting even info on the old "Sentry-70" computer system can't be found online, at least, I can't find any. The Sentry-70 is as it suggests, the last model, and numbered by year. that would be 1970. It predates the Cyber/Prime system, as much as memory recalls anyhow. They had the Sentry-70 at the university I happened to be at, at the time. I started there in 1976, yeah I know, it's still late for the time periods we're talking about. However, the systems and languages had been there for a long time before I started. There are a few things that lend evidence to these statements, none of which are likely verifiable... 1. that is how Valtrep was introduced to me (ok, so it's hearsay) 2. more importantly - the structure of the language - and this is more telling. It's quite easy to identify a more primitive version of a language when compared to a more modern one. Syntax, functions, scope, definitions, everything about it. Do I have any sample code of Valtrep still around? That's a tough question. I'm going to guess "NO", however, it is certainly possible. I will definitely look. There are a few people who were at the same university with me at the same time, I can also consult with them and perhaps get some of their memories, one of them may even have sample code, if only on punch-card or whatever. It might be easier [sic] to find info on the computer "Sentry-70", but all my searches thus far have come up blank on any useful information anyhow. I'm willing to cede the argument that Valtrep was the predecessor to Fortran if anyone can offer any evidence to support that. Perhaps it's an odd claim to make without any backup, but then, I was there, so.... Valtrep was very "Fortran-ish" however it didn't have all the functions or capabilities, it was more rudimentary. Dan. > From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN > Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 22:57:32 +0100 > > I can't say I have ever heard of Valtrep before and my attempts at searching > the web do not reveal any definitive information. What definitive > information do you have on Valtrep to say that it predates FORTRAN? FORTRAN > dates back to the 1950s. > > Regards > > Rob > > PS I think personal attacks have no place on this list. If someone has > misinterpreted what you say, then explain what you meant, because it is > always possible that you might not have been clear the first time. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dan Gahlinger > > Sent: 07 May 2010 21:53 > > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN > > > > > > If you actually READ the email instead of making immature remarks, > > maybe you'd learn something. > > > > I didn't say apple contracted with Valtrep for their Lisa FORTRAN or > > even implied anything like that. (that would be quite impossible). > > Don't make stupid comments especially if you don't read the mssage. > > > > You say my 1980s experiences with Valtrep were long after Fortran was > > well established and into the decline? > > Say it isn't so batman! what is this alternate universe we live in!? > > > > oh, and your comment that Valtrep had some nice improvements on the > > original creation of Fortran is just plain stupid. > > > > Valtrep is the PREDECESSOR to Fortran, or didn't you read my message so > > you could understand that. Guess not. > > > > Fortran may have been in heavy use since the 1960s (actually it's > > probably more like the mid to late 70s, but whatever), > > but Valtrep was actually developed and used long before that. > > > > Just because some company was still using Valtrep in the 1980s doesn't > > make it newer you know. > > Many companies use products and technologies that haven't been > > developed or wide use in decades... > > > > I have no idea who this "transnet" guy is, maybe you can ask him, maybe > > he'll be nicer than I am. > > > > In any case, the predecessor to Fortran was Valtrep. Not all such > > technology has survived. > > Someone months ago on this list talked about reviving a Cyber/Prime, > > but we never did hear about the result if it ever got finished... > > > > Dan. > > > > > Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 13:10:00 -0700 > > > From: cisin at xenosoft.com > > > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > > Subject: RE: Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN > > > > > > On Fri, 7 May 2010, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > > > > Actually, Fortran came from Valtrep > > > > > > WOW! > > > Are you saying that Apple contracted with Valtrep for their Lisa > > FORTRAN? > > > > > > > > > Or are you saying that the earliest versions of FORTRAN were based on > > > Valtrep? If so, you should be aware that FORTRAN was in heavy active > > use > > > in the 1960s, rather long before your 1980s experiences with Valtrep. > > > NO. Valtrep may have made some nice improvements, but they were > > never > > > part of the original creation of FORTRAN. > > > > > > > > > > I used to code on some old Sentry-70 systems in Valtrep back in the > > 80s > > > > yes, this was after fortran was already quite established. > > > > > > Yes, RATHER. > > > > > > FORTRAN was well on to its DECLINE in usage by then. > > > > > > > it's very like fortran - if you can write fortran, you can do > > valtrep. > > > > Interestingly perhaps, googling for valtrep is quite useless it > > seems... > > > > > > Oh, I don't know, that guy "transnet" has some interesting ideas :-) > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Dating: Find someone special. Start now. > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729707= > _________________________________________________________________ Win $10,000 from Hotmail! Enter Here. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729708

16 years, 3 months

2
1
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Valtrep is the PREDECESSOR to Fortran (was Lisa C and Lisa FORTRAN)

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

Al wrote: > On 5/7/10 1:52 PM, Dan Gahlinger wrote: >> Valtrep is the PREDECESSOR to Fortran > Would you please point me to documentation for this language prior to the > Fortran document of November, 1954 > http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/FORTRAN/ Al - I'm beginning to think that Dan Gahlinger is like Andy Kaufman creating the character Tony Clifton. He creates Valtrep on the Sentry-70, he creates OS/2 for the PDP-11, just to get us to kick. Actually, OS/2 for the PDP-11, that is so Tony Clifton. It is funny in retrospect :-) Eric had a real funny retort on a NetBSD list, something to do with buying the first sneaker for sneakernet :-), I think the Valtrep ruse, I first saw in 2006. Tim.

16 years, 3 months

4
7
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AlphaServer 1000A not booting

by pcoghlan+cctech＠vms.eurokom.ie

> >> I have an AlphaServer 1000A 4/266 that is not booting. When I power it up, >> nothing shows up on the control panel LCD and there are no beep codes. I >> know that the motherboard is receiving power because the "link active" light >> on the Ethernet adapter comes on. Is there anything that I can do to fix it, >> or should I just try to find another Alpha (I don't seem to have much luck >> with Alphas - I have a DEC 3000/300X with a bad RAM slot). >> > > >There's every chance the LCD is hosed, do you get anything out of a console >connection? From what I remember the A1000A doesn't beep on successful POST, >first machine to do that was the DS20. > My AlphaServer 1000A 5/333 and 5/400 both beep during or after the POST. > >The strange thing is that it was sitting for a few months, and it worked >fine the previous time I turned it on. > I also have a number of DEC machines that failed after sitting for a few months. I posted about them around the time of the "Leaving computers on..." thread about a month ago but I never saw my mail make it to the list for some reason. > >Does the floppy drive light come on? I'm wondering if the SROM has gone bad >and it needs a Failsafe Load, but I guess before that point you should at >least get the POST displaying on the LCD. Do the PSU fans start up? I'm not >near a 1000A till tomorrow so I won't mention reseating the CPU module until >I know it has a removeable one :) > The CPU module is removable and I have had trouble with one of my machines fixed by reseating it. However, the symptoms were different - there was activity on the display and there were beeps giving error codes. I have also had a problem with a failed Bcache on the CPU module (it seems this can be a weak point on the AS1000A) and I had memory failures. However, neither stopped the POST displaying on the LCD nor the graphics console from working. I would suggest reseating the CPU module and removing any PCI cards present. (I have an Alphaserver 800 which became a complete brick while a combination of PCI cards were present that it didn't like.) If there are any EISA cards present, I would leave them in place because there may be issues with the config utility that has to be run when the EISA bus configuration is modified. Other than that, I suggest trying the system with just the bare essentials present and seeing what happens. It would be useful to know if the fans start. Fan problems on some alphas cause the whole thing to shut down. Also, there is an interlock microswitch to prevent power up when the cover is open. This is probably not the problem here though as the symptoms are as if the front panel power switch is off. Regards, Peter Coghlan.

16 years, 3 months

2
1
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Drive recovery

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Just my luck! I'm making the final backup copy of my old Mac G3, and one of the drives dies, and my other backup wasn't. I take it apart - it's a 20 gig IBM Deskstar DTLA-305020, just old enough for the (cough) ten-year-rule, and well-known prone to two modes of failure, click of death and NVRAM failure. I'm hearing the NVRAM failure sound as shown at: http://www.dataclinic.co.uk/ibm-deskstar-hard-disk-drive-data-loss.htm In googling, I saw one reference to someone replacing the 8-pin NVRAM themselves from a donor drive, but that seems risky to me. I think I'll send it to Gillware.com, a Madison, WI-based recovery place. They offer $400-700 Windows recovery but charge a premium for Mac recovery ($700-$1000) and Linux ($800-1000), with the higher price for "clean room recovery". (Hmm, I thought bits were bits.) Any other advice - besides a better backup strategy? - John

16 years, 3 months

15
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Greatest videogame device (was Re: An option - Re: thebeginningof

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 7 May 2010, at 08:25, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 02:15:49 -0400 > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > Subject: Re: Greatest videogame device (was Re: An option - Re: > thebeginningof > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4BE3B015.7070107 at neurotica.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 5/7/10 2:08 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: >>>> Well, the 8080 can't do a 16-bit by 16-bit multiply to get a 32-bit >>>> product, so that's an obvious difference. >> >> So, therefore, we all agree that the 8080 is NOT a 32-bit processor! > > Right. But is it 8 or 16? > >>> See, it's not all that cut-and-dried. I think we need to defer to >>> what is "commonly accepted" amongst the learned. Everyone knows the >> >> Who are the "learned"? > > Well specifically, people like us, who actually know how computers work. > >> Are the registers 16 bit registers that can be split into two 8 bit? >> or are they pairs of 8 bit registers that can be used together for 16 bit >> values? >> >> Is the size of the data bus irrelevant? >> (There have been people who maintain that THAT is the measure of the >> processor!) >> >> The software of an 8088 looks like 16 bit; the hardware of an 8088 looks >> an awful lot like 8 bit. There are people who consider the 8088 to be an >> 8-bit and consider the 8086 to be 15 bit, in spite of their >> "similarities". > > Yes, agreed 100% all around. > >> What do you consider 80386 to be? > > By what measure? ;) > >> how about the 80386-SX? It's hardware seems similar to 80286; what is >> THAT? > > Well that's an 80386 with a half-width data bus, much like the 8088 > is an 8086 with a half-width data bus. So...by what measure? ;) > >> What the hell is a "Celeron"? or a "Dragonball"? or an "Atom"? > > Well the Celeron being a Pentium, conventional wisdom says "32-bit". > Dragonball is a CPU32-core processor, whose ALU is 32-bits wide. But > the Dragonball (at least the 68EZ328 variant, the last one I designed > with) has a 16-bit data bus! So...which is it? 16 or 32? > > (sorry, I know zero about the Atom, can't comment there but would > welcome some knowledge) When I did my computer science degree (1971-4) it was the largest addressable item of main storage (core back then). By that definition the early IBM PC was 8 bit and so were machines like the Victor. Personally I don't really care as long as you compare like with like. What rankled with me back in the 80s was that machines with 8 bit data busses and 16 bit registers were being described as 16 bit when at the same time the 16 bit data bus machines with 32 bit registers like the Lisa and Mac were also being described as 16 bit. Apple played by the rules when every one else's marketing people lied their heads off.

16 years, 3 months

2
1
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seeking DEC VT100-style keyboard keycaps SETUP and NOSCROLL

by nigel.d.williams＠gmail.com

for a DEC GIGI (VK100) I recently acquired. Many of the keycaps on the GIGI pull off very easily so little surprise it is missing a couple. http://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/Bdb1fRKIjtP6Q0CebliU-g?feat=directl… (Aside: on powerup it promptly had conniptions and also needs parts for the PSU - fortunately easy to find at our local electronics store).

16 years, 3 months

3
5
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Viewpoint or Globalview for x86?

by mross666＠hotmail.com

> Message: 11 > Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 14:03:19 -0700 > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Subject: Re: Viewpoint or Globalview for x86? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4BDF3A17.1090900 at bitsavers.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 5/3/10 2:01 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > On 5/3/10 1:20 PM, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote: > >> Anyone have these available - I would like to try them out on a x86 box. > >> > > > > There is a simulation of Viewpoint under Windows written by Don Woodward > > called Dawn. > > > http://www.woodward.org/mps/index.html Or, you could pick up the real thing: http://www.corestore.org/gvwin21.zip http://www.corestore.org/gvwin21.zip Or, if you want to try the X version - runs on Solaris 1.x I believe: http://www.corestore.org/GVX_1.05.iso.zip http://www.corestore.org/GVXv1_0.zip A long time since I've played with these; supplied as-is, no warranty, worth what you're paying for them, may cause confusion and visual disturbance. Enjoy. Mike _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28…

16 years, 3 months

3
2
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Anyone ever heard of a Canon BX-1?

by info＠emanuelegabellini.it

Dear Greg, i'm a little too late about BX-1!!! No, do you still have the computer? How it doing? Let me know please, thanks Emanuele

16 years, 3 months

1
0
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VSV21-AA (M7656) Qbus graphics card

by legalize＠xmission.com

Can anyone tell me about this product? I found it in the module list described as follows: M7656 VSV21-AA Q Colour graphics module: M68K processor, HD63486 M7656 video processor (512x512 or 512x256 resolution), M7656 Serial ports for mouse, trackball, console and M7656 LK201. I'm interested in knowing what software products support this. For instance, if I put this card in a Qbus VAXserver 4000/300, will it enable me to run DECwindows locally? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

16 years, 3 months

1
0
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Wang 2200

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

Is there any interest in a Wang 2200 located (I think) in New Jersey? I know very little...I am just the messenger. -- Will

16 years, 3 months

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Funny video...some old mainframe hardware in use!

by bbrown＠harpercollege.edu

Enjoy! bbrown at harpercollege.edu ####? #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ##? ##? ## Supervisor of Operations Palatine IL USA????????? ####? #### Saved by grace -----Original Message----- From: owner-vse-l at Lehigh.EDU [mailto:owner-vse-l at Lehigh.EDU] On Behalf Of Ingo Franzki Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:08 AM To: VSE Discussion List Subject: Funny video: Linux on IBM System z: A silent clip on the past and the You may know some of the "actors" in that video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i7kBnhN3Lg Kind regards, Ingo Franzki, IBM

16 years, 3 months

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picture of VAX 4000 Model 50, so-called VAXbrick?

by nigel.d.williams＠gmail.com

I am curious about this model, anyone have a photograph/picture/scanned manual for this model? Are they rare? I have seen only one reference to one being on eBay in 2004. thanks.

16 years, 3 months

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TMS1000 Processor (fwd)

by charlie＠tech-j.biz

Attention: Al Kossow See url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2004-January/035417.html You discussed options with TMS1000. Have you found a way to read the rom as yet. There is : http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT3988604&id=Py4uAAAAEBAJ&dq=3,988,604 in the PDF it explains using the 'test mode' to dump rom. Is this of use ? Beyond my capability. Would appreciate your comments. charlie at tech-j.biz Charlie Harris New Zealand

16 years, 3 months

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FFS: Key CAD for DOS

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Stuff free for shipping: Key CAD for DOS (PC/XT/AT) complete with manuals and media Norton Utilities Version 4.0 by Richard Evans Epson, Epson, Read All about It! by Dave Prochnow PC Tools Deluxe 5.0 for DOS (manual only) Epson MX-80 Type 2 operations manual Epson MX-100 operations manual I ran this stuff for a week and a half in the dollar bin with my ebay stuff. No takers. Let me know if you want any of it. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

16 years, 3 months

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Servant .953

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I am interviewing Andy Hertzfeld tomorrow, and had hoped to talk about Servant, but I can't find a copy of it around anywhere tonight. Does anyone have a copy they can send me? This was the finder replacement he did just before Multifinder came out. I think .953 was the last version.

16 years, 3 months

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Digital Joysticks (was Re: Greatest videogame device)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> Those were gimmicks, too, in their day - we used to spend quite a bit >> of effort to adapt Atari joysticks to PET User Ports (one is easy, two >> joysticks takes a bit of effort because there are five switches and >> eight primary bits - mostly folks used diodes, but I think there was > > I am wondering how you did this... The wiring diagram is reproduced in the PET FAQ. Note that there was not a lot of software that supported joysticks since not that many PET owners had them. http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/cbm/PETx/petfaq.html > IIRC, there are 5 swithces for the joystick, up, down, left, right Yep. > OK, up and down can't be actuated simultaneously, nor can left and right. This becomes important later... > But > combinations such as up-and-right are possible, at least on any decent > joystick. That is not strictly correct - there were and are "4 way" and "8 way" joysticks. Pacman shipped with 4-way" joysticks, and many MAME enthusiasts have learned that trying to play with 8-way joysticks is more frustrating than playing with the original type. It's now possible to buy arcade-quality joysticks that can be swapped from the top (with some sort of push and rotation move) so that you can buy one set that plays either way without opening up your MAME cabinet. > And the fire button is independant of the joystick position. Yes. > That means there are 9 states for the joystick (centre, U, D, L, R, UL, > UR, DL, DR -- using the obvious abbreviations). That takes 4 bits to > encode. Exactly the same number as if you fed each switch into its own > port line. > > So you would still need 10 port lines... You are making an assumption here - that it's required to support 18 unique states (9 joystick states with button up, 9 with button down). To do that, yes, you need 10 port lines to support two joysticks. What the aforementioned diode trick does is to activate up and down simultaneously, an "impossible" 10th state for a regular mechanical joystick. The joystick scanner routine must be checking for that first, acting on the fire button being pressed, then *not* treating it like the combination of an up event and a down event. > I I had to do it on an 8 bit user port, I think I would use a '157 mux to > select between the 2 joysticks (4 bits each, going to 4 bits on the > port). And an port line configured as an output to switch between them. > And finally 2 more port inputs (a totla of 7 of the 8 user prot lines > used) for the fire buttons. I think the Sega Genesis did something like that; at least I recall a '157 in the game controller I dismantled years ago. By contrast, the NES used one or two 4021 shift registers to pump bits in (the standard NES controllers had 8 buttons and used 1 shift register, but the "power pad" had 12 sensor spots and used two shift registers). That's how they did eight buttons with a 7-pin connector - Vcc, ground, latch, clock, D0, D3, D4, where a regular controller sends back its data on D0, and the power pad sends back its data on D3 and D4 simultaneously. -ethan

16 years, 3 months

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Good advice re: Cleaning with compressed air...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

Good advice regarding cleaning Tektronix gear (From the "TekScopes" List) - but applicable to any equipment with DC fans... From: "Mac Perkins" (Pacific Studio, Inc) "Spinning up a DC fan with compressed air also makes it a remarkably good generator, whose output voltage can easily exceed its normal supply, damaging either its internal driver circuitry or if you're really lucky other components that share the same power rail. We had a series of mysterious failures on rental units that were routinely blown out on return. The rental warehouse staff liked to see how high a pitch they could create by spinning up the fans with shop air. I did a little testing and found the 12 V rail was around 20 V when this was done, with the rest of the circuitry unpowered, leading to failures of several power drivers. We required that the fan be immobilized before blowing down the units, and the failures stopped. A small screwdriver through the fan works well and is difficult to miss - we tried toothpicks, but they did not always get removed." -- Lyle Bickley, KF6ZGI Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

16 years, 3 months

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Transfer files to/from N* CPM image?

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

I found what purports to be a diskdef for cpmtools, but am not having any success at all. The file _appears_ to copy into the image and I can read it back out uncorrupted with cpmtools, but when I write it to a disk with Dave Dunfield's NST and boot it, the file is filled with E5s. I did note the diskdef is for 70 tracks (double-sided) and tried changing the track value to 35. No luck. I'm trying to move the Morrow HD format/test utility to a diskette that can be accessed from my N* CPM 2.2 boot diskette, but so far it's "Can't Get There from Here..". I'd try a comm program, but guess what I don't have on an N* diskette? :-). Steve --

16 years, 3 months

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Drive recovery

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 16:52:54 -0700 > From: dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: Drive recovery > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <SNT129-W423C1F47E5486E7A1E8EFFA3F30 at phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > ---snip--- > > Hi > If I was running a drive recovery business, every drive that came in > would be opened first in a clean room before powering on. If there > was a failure of one of the disk, shipping could have distributed bits > to unaffected surfaces. > I don't think I could run it any different than that. I'd have to charge > for that as well. > Dwight Since most drive failures are not head disk interferences much less a crash, the proposed process would unnecessarily both add cost and increase the risk of head disk interference without, IMO, significantly changing the data recovery probability. The small particles that do the most damage are not visible so I am not sure what one would do upon opening a drive unless there are many large visible particles indicative of a rare catastrophic head crash. When there is a catastrophic head crash the debris is well distributed by the rotating disks, damaging all the heads and disks then. At this point the damage is done and subsequent shipment and testing is not likely to do much more damage. Furthermore, it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible and certainly expensive to recover data when there is such a catastrophic failure. A simple audio test should be sufficient to detect a catastrophic failure at which point you turn the drive off and consider the very limited options available. One might consider a particle count test for contamination but then it is not clear what one would do about it, purge cycle perhaps. So it seems to me that opening every drive is of little value Tom

16 years, 3 months

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MCA Sound Card?

by derschjo＠mail.msu.edu

I've got a PS/2 Model 80 (totally tricked out with a 40Mhz Cyrix 386->486 upgrade and 48mb ram) that I have a hankering to do some old DOS gaming on. Don't ask me why I want to do this on a PS/2, it makes no sense -- I just do. I lack any sort of sound device, however, and they seem to be hard to find these days... Anyone have an MCA sound card (something that is SoundBlaster compatible would be very useful...) they'd be willing to sell or trade? I've got a lovely M-Motion Video Adapter/A (capture video on your PS/2!) to get rid of :). Thanks as always, Josh

16 years, 3 months

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B&C Microsystems

by adolfo210511＠att.net

From: "Adolfo Bustos" <adolfo210511 at att.net> To: <cctech at classiccmp.org> Subject: B&C Microsystems 1409 Prom Burner Date: Thursday, May 06, 2010 7:54 AM cctech at classiccmp.org M H Stein Hi, Mike; Do You have the software "burn.com" for the B&C Microsystems 1409 Prom Burner, it's run Windows XP? appreciate your answers. thanks in advance Adolfo

16 years, 3 months

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Quick question -- Sharp PC-1211

by evan＠snarc.net

Hi all -- quick question for anybody who has a Sharp PC-1211 -- is there a patent number on the back, and if so, what is it?

16 years, 3 months

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A fun thought-experiment

by lproven＠gmail.com

Everyone knows the "$100 laptop", the OLPC XO-1 machine that spawned the Intel Classmate which in turn spawned the whole "netbook" market. I will warrant that fewer know of the Indian $12 PC, based on a clone of an old Nintendo: http://www.techtree.com/India/News/12_PC_Based_on_a_Game_Console/551-91911-… http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9111759/_12_Indian_TV_computer_a_kno… The $12 PC is horribly compromised, but it's a good idea at heart: a computer so cheap it's affordable for the urban poor. But if one were to try to design an actual computer that cheap, something programmable that could maybe even do email and telnet and really simple TCP/IP-type stuff like that, what would you put in the box? I am taking it as more or less a given that it would have to be a VERY simple 1980s-style 8-bit machine. The easiest way might be to clone one of the 80s home computers, implement it on a chip with some extra software, like Jeri Ellsworth's fantastic Commodore 64 Direct-TV device. But which 8-bit? If you had to fit an entire computer, with storage and software, into an FPGA or some similar device and install it in a keyboard, with a couple of USB ports for storage and connection to a cellphone for communications... Which would be the best, most versatile, capable 1980s 8-bit machine to use? An Apple II with loads of options in virtual "slots"? A Commodore 64, for the graphics, sound and huge games library? A Spectrum, for its simplicity but large range of programming languages and so on? A BBC Micro, with the best BASIC ever and sideways ROM support for additional features? An MSX2 machine, some of the latest and best-equipped 8-bitters? Something exotic, like an Elan Enterprise or MGT SAM Coup?? Or a 1970s mini, like the Russian Electronika BK, a PDP/11-compatible home computer? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektronika_BK -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508

16 years, 3 months

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Selling some of my collection

by joachim.thiemann＠gmail.com

Hello, unfortunately, I am anticipating a move in the future, and thus have to make some decisions about my stuff. And I decided to get rid of all my classic macs (all of them compacts). A 128k (from before they were thus labeled), an SE/30 (with network card and NetBSD installed), and a SE. All of them working fine (well, the display of the SE/30 needs a bit of adjustment of an internal pot: too bright! I'll fix that this weekend). The 128k is in the original carrying bag, and in great physical and working shape. I have posted pics on my website: http://www.ece.mcgill.ca/~jthiem/classiccmp.html No idea what I can ask for these; and shipping them would be a good chunk of change, too. So I'd prefer a local sale. Make an offer, preferably for all of them together. Joe. -- Joachim Thiemann :: http://www.tsp.ece.mcgill.ca/~jthiem

16 years, 3 months

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free for pickup; dec TSZ07 9-track tape drive & Tek 453 scope

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Hi, If anyone in the Boston area wants either of these, they are free for pickup: - DEC TSZ07 SCSI 9-track tape drive. It worked fine last time I used it. I think it's 1600bpi only. It's clean but big and heavy. technically it's "desktop", and it is sitting on a table now. - Tek 453 scope Also works last time I used it. It's a little dirty but functional. Two channels, 50Mhz. not as heavy as the tape drive :-) a nice simple scope. I'm available in Arlington MA most days 9-5pm. I could show up in the evening if that works better for someone. -brad Brad Parker Heeltoe Consulting 781-483-3101 http://www.heeltoe.com

16 years, 3 months

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Tek 4010 for sale

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

I have listed my Tek 4010 on ebay (finally) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220600550062 Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

16 years, 3 months

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Drive recovery

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

> In general, I'm happy that the data was recovered. > I'm unhappy in the sense that I'm out $800 without any explanation, > or new professional connection to a service I might need to use in > the future, and for the yucky feeling of dealing with clueless > and misleading customer service people. Not trying to sound pessimistic but most businesses are set up to deliver a service or product for the money. It is a kind of professionalism (although not the profesionalism you expected) to deliver the same uniform service to all customers. When your expectations fall outside the standard services there can be a kind of impedance mismatch going on... you don't get what you want, they probably never understood what you wanted, there may not even be a mechanism in place to figure out what you really wanted. Technically I think your expectations were very reasonable especially considering it was just a NVRAM failure ... and money wise them charging you for clean room services in the case of a NVRAM failure makes no sense at all. So I understand your dissatisfaction that way. At the other end, there are professional consulting companies which do really good at sucking up lots of $ listening to what the customer wants but never have the obligation of actually delivering anything at all. A huge chunk of the IT industry is set up that way. Tim.

16 years, 3 months

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Bell and Howell Apple II+'s?

by wgungfu＠gmail.com

Anyone on the list have one with the backside expansion and side I/O port? I just picked up two of them, one without any of the mods that's in great shape and another that's with those mods but it's in pieces. All the actual connectors and such from the side port and the back carriage are just loose (not hooked up to anything on the board) and half the chips are missing from the II+ board. Considering combining the two units but have no idea where everything is supposed to hook up. Marty

16 years, 3 months

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OT: Stealthbid

by evan＠snarc.net

Hey, whatever happened to Stealthbid? I used it often but haven't in a while .... now it seems to be dead/gone.

16 years, 3 months

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Wang 700A

by rborsuk＠colourfull.com

Anyone got a spare couple of duckets for this beauty? ebay item#380230308572 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380230308572 Rob Rob Borsuk email: rborsuk at colourfull.com Colourfull Creations Web: http://www.colourfull.com

16 years, 3 months

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Wang 2200

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

Hi Will: Do u know the model number? If it is a Wang 2200 LVP, it is one of the first in its price class to come with a fixed hard drive; initially it used a Shugart SA1000 and then it switched to a Quantum Q2000. Tom > Message: 21 > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 19:05:46 -0400 > From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> > Subject: Wang 2200 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <w2re1d20d631004261605rfdb5e8bbzfead397daa9888dd at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Is there any interest in a Wang 2200 located (I think) in New Jersey? > I know very little...I am just the messenger. > > -- > Will

16 years, 3 months

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Greatest videogame device (was Re: An option - Re: the beginning of the end for floppies)

by christian_liendo＠yahoo.com

Agreed.. While the PS2 was more popular the Dreamcast had better graphics due to increased video ram and had better games in my opinion. I show people my dreamcast and they can't believe it's 11 yrs old. --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Curt @ Atari Museum <curt at atarimuseum.com> wrote: > Of a modern console - I still think the Dreamcast was the best for its > time, Sega pulled the plug too early - it was a wonderful > machine, great (and fun!) games, tons of expansion and peripherals.

16 years, 3 months

1
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AT&T Unix 3B-1's Available in Colorado

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

I was contacted by someone interested in finding a good home for an "extensive collection" of AT&T 3B1 computers, parts, and manuals. If anyone is local to Colorado and would like the details, contact me directly. The person would prefer to find someone who'd be willing to pick these items up rather than ship, and obviously someone who will use these systems, not re-sell them. Thanks Bill

16 years, 3 months

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The end of microcomputers (was Re: An option - Re: the beginning of the end for floppies)

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

Al wrote: > On 5/1/10 11:58 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Liam, thank you very much for the blog article. If we will become a >> cloud-oriented computing society, there will certainly be profound >> social consequences. > I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm saddened that the company > I worked for for twenty years (Apple COMPUTER) no longer exists. You know, I think back to 1984, when I was an avid fan of the Apple II (by then very long in the tooth) and its huge catalog of available freeware and commercial programs and plug-in peripheral and coprocessor boards. I'm not saying I was a huge fan of Apple the company, but I was a fan of the multitude of little companies that had been built around the Apple II. Then the Mac came out, which didn't even have Applesoft BASIC built in (never mind the fact that it lacked Integer BASIC!!! That's a different rant), and had no expansion bus. It wasn't obvious how to even write a program for it... the same way that every Apple II user had typed in at least a couple little BASIC programs. And how could you expand it with no expansion bus? > I understand why it's happening, it's just very sad to see the 'production' > side of the product line slipping away to high volume devices geared to > 'consumption' and generating a constant revenue stream under their total control. Again, thinking back to 1984, the thought lurking in my mind back then was similar... that Apple saw all these other companies selling software and hardware for the Apple II and had eliminated these possibilities on the Mac. I was being a little pessimistic back then, but not much. I ended up using Macs, and even hacking them a little (in terms of hardware mods and delving into at least a layer or two below the OS top level), but it was never like the hackability of an Apple II. To be fair to the S-100 vs IBM PC world, I never really liked the IBM PC either, but it did have an expansion bus, and did ship with Basic, and there was the "choice" (put in quotes intentionally) between MS-DOS and CP/M-86 and then a few others. I suppose in terms of me hacking micros, there was the "before" of the Apple II and S-100 worlds, and the "after" of the Mac and the IBM PC. In the "before" there were cool magazines like BYTE and Dr. Dobbs about true hardware and software hacking; in the "after" there were not-cool magazines telling businesspeople which software to buy (and rudely they were still called BYTE and Dr. Dobbs). I personally feel that moving thought from "IBM PC or Mac on my desk with no software that I actually wrote and no hardware that I actually hacked" to the "my world I create on the cloud and the web where I can show a schematic of this new code practice oscillator I built from a 1U5 and a 3V$ and a youtube movie of my magic eye blinker" may be an improvement over the current environment. (Just to bring in what I've been hacking this weekend). Tim.

16 years, 3 months

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Not computers, but classic, Tek‏

by rdawson16＠hotmail.com

Hardly a single bit of science in the past 100 years was not touched or enabled by the CRT. Our local PBS has produced a program of the history of Tektronix, it airs Monday: http://www.opb.org/programs/oregonexperience/programs/29-The-Spirit-of-Tek I am sure several of us have some of these boat anchors. I am the proud owner of a 7104, 1GHz scope. Sure, they got into computer graphics with the 4000 series terminals, and the tek protocol for vector graphics became kind of a standard. Enjoy, Randy _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID2…

16 years, 3 months

4
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PC/ix (was a generic 486 system bid up to $105?)

by silent700＠gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Mark Davidson <mdavidson1963 at gmail.com> wrote: > Aargh... don't remind me. ?Even though it would not be able to do > much, I actually miss my first Unix box... an IBM PC/XT running PC/ix. > ?I have been searching for YEARS to find another copy of PC/ix, to no > avail. Not sure if it may have been you posting on this thread, but here is an old discussion of PC/ix: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?11151-PC-IX-Images The OP had posted disk images but the links are now dead. Trixter (who I believe is on this list?) also downloaded them. Maybe he still has them? I wouldn't mind giving it a try on my idle XT, too. -- jht

16 years, 3 months

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H8 system offered

by rtellason＠verizon.net

A friend of mine, widoweed, has this Heath H8 system she wants gone. In fact has asked me to take it out of there. I don't have a lot of details on this at the moment, but can say that there's a dual floppy drive box, a printer, and a terminal with it, we're looking into whether there's any floppy disks or documentation around as well. A pic of the system as it currently sits can be found at: http://mysite.verizon.net/rtellason/Heathkit%20System-03.jpg The "furniture" in the pic could go along with it, if someone wanted to pick it up locally. The system is currently located near Halifax, PA. If she decides that I need to get it out of there it'll be located later on in Palmyra, PA. Please feel free to contact me offlist, as I am not keeping up with things in here these days... My comment to her was that "I'd to my best to get this into the hands of someone that would want to use it". No dollar figure was ever mentioned but she can use all the help she can get. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

16 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

HP rx5670

by pontus＠update.uu.se

Hi I might have a lead on a HP rx5670, but HP indicate that it might not support VMS, and I'm not that eager to run linux, hpux nor windows. Has anyone tried to run VMS on it? /Pontus.

16 years, 3 months

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