test-drb August 2016

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

175 participants
281 discussions

by thrashbarg＠kaput.homeunix.org

Hi List, I've started looking at my SDK-85 after having it on the shelf for years. I know the 8355 mask ROM on it isn't working but I haven't been able to find a suitable replacement. I wired up a temporary solution with a 2716 EPROM only to find the ROM image and source code aren't available outside of dead-tree format. I'm not about ready to type out 48 pages of source code. Does anyone have a digital copy of the source, or the assembled binary or, even better, a replacement ROM? (I'm in Adelaide, Australia.) Cheers, Alexis.

10 years

Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too. > ... There's a blue-and-red '40 panel sold by DEC in their > "INDUSTRIAL-11" version. Also for the /70; I announced a couple of weeks back that I'd added a scan of one to my PDP-11 stuff page: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/PDP-11_Stuff.html > From: Don North north at alum.mit.edu > I also have a complete DEC DataSystem-570 panel ... which is just a > standard 11/70 panel, but recolored in light blue / dark blue / gray > color scheme. One of those on that page, too. (Well, the plexiglass part. :-) > From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > This might or might not be blasphemous to some, but I think the DDS-570 > colour scheme looks much nicer than the standard PDP-11 colour scheme. I like them both... :-) > I'm wondering how close of a match the "business system" blue PDP-11/7x > models match up against DEC's other blue coloured systems; i.e. KL10s > of the DECsystem-10xx flavour They are different; the 570 includes a deep blue (a royal/Prussian kind of blue), and on the KL10 both are lighter. > it's front-end processor was a PDP-11/40 with an alternate colour > scheme panel Actually, that is the only 'front panel' (lights and switches) on the KL10; the KL10 CPU itself doesn't have one (unlike the KA10 and KI10). Noel

10 years

Atlanta Open House Tomorrow

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I'm reposting this because I set the time on the classiccmp server incorrectly (forgot to add 12). Just in case the important post below showed up earlier in folks inbox, I wanted to make sure it showed up. I'm posting this on behalf of Cindy at Elecplus I can't post to cctalk when I am away from home. I am in Atlanta, and the owner of the warehouse hs agreed to let people come in tomorrow. Please can you post the following for me? First come first served, no shipping on the really cheap items. Model M 101/103 terminal keyboards $10 each, no cracked cases, may not have complete caps. Hundreds of keyboards for other terminals starting at $30 each, tested and complete. A full pallet of AEK 1 and 2 keyboards More expensive items include a Burroughs keyboard, complete and in good condition, a 1978 terminal in working condition, and the following terminals/keyboards, tested, no screen burn, keyboards are complete. DEC VT100 (no keyboards), 220, 320, 420.Wyse 50 and 60 with keyboards. Qume 62 and 101+ with keyboards.Link MC2 and 3 with keyboards. ADDS 4000 with keyboards. HP 700/22, 700/43, 700/60, 700/90, 700/92, 700/94, 700/96 with keyboards. LOTS of working vintage test equip. Some pics are here: <https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxqLDyoLYuCKbkEwdmlST2lKaUU> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxqLDyoLYuCKbkEwdmlST2lKaUU Thank you! Cindy

10 years

Atlanta warehouse

by sales＠elecplus.com

I can see that one day's notice did not do much good. I am sorry, but Atlanta is over 1500 miles from home for me, and I usually do not get much notice. Next time I will try to give at least a week notice. There can be absolutely no viewing on the weekends. That is out of the question for him. It is MUCH easier for him if I am there when people want to come and scrounge. He is so busy, and his warehouse manager is usually tied up with orders, and for safety reasons they can't just turn people loose. I am usually there every couple of months. Now that we have established that people will be allowed to come and choose things, he is having the warehouse guys sort things into categories. Things he wants to keep, and those he is willing to part with. Right now they are scrapping all the HP 700/96, and the Wyse 60s. I asked him to hold onto a dozen or so working Wyse 60s with keyboards for about 30 days. He will ship them. Tested and working with complete tested keyboard he wants $80 per set plus shipping. The Teletype keyboard and the small keyboard have been sold. The Lear terminal and the Burroughs are for sale, but not cheap. The Lear has been repaired and is working. The Burroughs keyboard he wants $250 for. He did not specify a price for the Lear, but you can always make a good offer. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 500 Pershing Ave. Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com AOL IM elcpls

10 years

SWTPC 6800

by vintagecomputer＠bettercomputing.net

Thanks! ?I'm definitely enjoying my trips back to 1976. ?My house is early 70s and in the basement with an old table and the terminal, computer and monitor I'm pretty much in 1976. ?I really am hoping to learn how to program using the monitor... still don't completely understand how adding two digits to memory addresses makes it do something. I'll probably leave the machine be.. it's a bit fragile. ?Might be fun to get the disk card working and get a working drive for it.. although I have no software on disk. Re: EPROM programming.. wish I could do that with my MSI 6800.. and get it back to stock config. ?The homemade monitor it has is useless! Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> Date: 2016-08-12 9:39 PM (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800 On 2016-Aug-12, at 7:39 PM, Brad H wrote: > There's no way to have both the MP-C and MP-S cards in the same machine and > have the computer connected to one at a faster rate of speed is there? As far the hardware goes, yes, you can have both cards in there operating at different speeds. Your problem is getting SWTBUG to use the alternative serial card (port) for the loader command, rather than the console port. To my recollection it (SWTBUG) is not programmed to provide for that. I have a vague recollection of some monitor that allowed one to redirect the I/O port for the subsequent command or something like that but it was probably for some other machine (don't have the command list for SWTBUG at hand). So you could modify SWTBUG (typically with hand-assembled patches) and add a new facility and burn a new EPROM to give you a monitor tailored for your system config. Welcome to the world of hobbyist computing, 1976.

10 years

VAX file format conversion

by dave＠mitton.com

If you are importing files into VMS, you need to become familiar with the EXCHANGE command. (found via Google) http://h20565.www2.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04623262 It can do stream and carriage control conversions on various RMS fixed formats. When we first brought up DECnet-DOS network file transfer, we had some "discussions" with the VMS RMS engineers that didn't like us doing auto conversions. This was their "compromise". Oh and if you are doing serial transfers, yes, keeping the baud rate low is a good strategy. I had to spend some time working on the DECnet-DOS DDCMP driver developing better character overrun recovery strategies. Yes, you may be coming in via a terminal line, but that line can hiccup from time to time. Dave. On 8/12/2016 01:00 PM, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:08:39 -0400 >From: Douglas Taylor <dj.taylor4 at comcast.net> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: VAX file format conversion >Message-ID: <d54db4aa-efc8-d332-971f-57250d5fd0f5 at comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > >I have a MicroVax 4000 that I am trying to update the license PAKs on, >the last time I had valid PAKs on this machine was in 2002 (Hobbyist >Licenses). > >I registered and have received the new Hobbyist License PAKs. > >I connected a laptop and transferred the text file using C-Kermit on the >VAX and hyperterminal on the laptop. > >When I go to execute the file, I get an error: > >$(a)hobbyist-use-only-va.txt > >%RMS-W-RTB 512 bye record to large for user buffer > >It appears that when the file was transferred it showed up on the vax >with fixed length records of 512 bytes, not variable length. > >Can I convert the file on the VAX? > >Is there a setting for C-Kermit that I need to change? > >Is Hyperterminal screwing things up? > >Doug --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

10 years

SWTPC 6800

by vintagecomputer＠bettercomputing.net

Interesting. ?I thought the CT-1024 was sort of the intended companion for the 6800 (It came out first, I think). ?I wonder what they expected people to do if they had just those two devices? I'll probably try cable swap and see how onerous that is. ?I'm hoping to one day acquire an AC-30.. of course then I'd need to find tape files... Do you know of any good repository for the kind of loader files you can load via serial? ?I've found a few here and there but not all of them.? Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> Date: 2016-08-12 4:01 PM (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800 On Friday (08/12/2016 at 07:33AM -0700), Brad H wrote: > >???? > I've a question. ?I've now got my CT1024 working properly with my 6800.. is there an easy way to load txt loader files into it while it is still connected to the CT? ?Or do I have to load something in via PC first and then swap cables? The "usual" method in the day was that the paper tape reader on the M33 teletype connected to the 6800 as the console was used to load your s-records in through MIKBUG.? When you started the tape reader, it was just like you were typing it on the TTY's keyboad. Later, a cassette interface such as SWTPC AC-30 or the PERCOM CIS-30 was used and it sat between the terminal's RS232 interface and the SWTPC's console interface.?? When you were loading a tape, the terminal got disconnected (electrically) and the data coming off the tape was sent to the console input of the 6800. So, in simple terms, the cassette interface was in series with the terminal and could preempt the terminal when loading from tape.? To save to tape, the output from the 6800 would essentially go to both the tape and the terminal at the same time. The modern equivalent is probably an RS232 A/B switch that either connects your CT-1024 or a PC to the 6800's console.? When you want to "load a tape" you flip the switch so that the PC connects to the 6800 and sends the s-records in.? After the load is complete, you flip the switch back and the CT-1024 becomes the console. You could also diode-OR the transmit data from the CT-1024 and a PC to the 6800's receive data input and wire the transmit data from the 6800's output to both the CT-1024 and the PC but this might be sketchy depending on the PC's RS232 interface characteristics.??? But I have done this successfully with other RS232 interfaces where I wanted two devices to be able to send to one receiver without having to physically disconnect or flip a switch. Chris > -------- Original message -------- > From: Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at Update.UU.SE> > Date: 2016-08-11? 11:27 PM? (GMT-08:00) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800 > > Very interresting read, thank you Ethan. > > /P > > On Tue, Aug 09, 2016 at 10:55:54AM -0400, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> wrote: > > > On Friday (08/05/2016 at 06:50PM +0000), tony duell wrote: > > >> > > >> Am I the only person who rarely, if ever, has RS232 problems? > > > > > > No.? ;-) > > > > No, but I used to manufacture sync serial hardware and have deep > > knowledge of how async serial in general, and RS-232/EIA works in > > particular, and still have all the test gear from 30 years ago.? I get > > why people find serial comms frustrating and do not take my > > experiences as "typical". > > > > I pretty much don't hook up anything new that isn't on a "traffic > > light".? I have several - DE9-DE9 for modern stuff, and multiple > > DB25-DB25 for old and new stuff.? *Mostly*, if you plug everything in > > and you get at least TxD and RxD to light up, you at least have > > figured out where the primary gozintas and gozoutas go and can stop > > adding null-modem adapters.? Past that, you have to know if either end > > requires hardware handshaking and either plumb the right signals > > (vintage setup documentation is invaluable for this) or bridge the > > appropriate lines (documentation again) so that one or both sides > > _thinks_ there's hardware handshaking.? If you defeat it, you might > > run into overrun conditions, but at least you should be able to > > establish basic comms and pass a few characters.? To that end, you do > > have to match speeds on both sides, and the usual best place to start > > is 8-N-1 for data bits, parity, and stop bits.? I've run into multiple > > situations where 7-E-1 or 7-N-1 is the right answer.? With enough > > experience, the "baud barf" from mismatched speeds takes on an often > > recognizable pattern that can be used to quickly figure out what the > > speed ought to be, but lacking instrumentation like a serial analyzer > > or an oscilloscope, one can try "all the speeds" until cleartext comes > > through.? I also try the speeds in "most popular order", 9600, 1200, > > 300, 2400, 4800, 19200, 600... in the hopes of saving time.? Every > > once in a while, you run into some oddball stuff, like 9600/150, etc., > > split speeds from the days of timesharing setups where the CPU wanted > > to get data to the users as fast as possible but wanted to minimize > > input interrupts and more closely match the input flow to (slow) human > > typing speeds.? This wasn't common with microcomputers, but I've seen > > it with PDP-11 and PDP-8 setups and isn't something to look for first, > > but it does exist and highlights how strange things can get if all > > you've ever done is plug a high speed modem into a PC for dial-up > > internet. > > > > One important tip about USB serial dongles (and some laptops DE9 > > serial ports) - I've had problems with some of them and 1970s gear > > because the EIA/RS-232C (1969) level specification is +5V to +15V for > > space (0) and -15V to -5V for mark (1) (with +/-3V min sensitivity) > > and a lot of old gear is expecting +/-12V and not happy with > > lower-voltage lines and thin wires that don't help signal losses.? One > > case in particular was a 1977-era Bridgeport Series II CNC mill with a > > LSI-11/03 CPU and a lot of custom Bridgeport boards.? Everyone else > > who tried to talk to the Bridgeport before me had zero success.? I > > checked all the things on the list and finally pulled out the laptop > > and set up a Dell desktop which worked the first time.? When > > connecting to pre-1982 gear, I'd definitely try it from a desktop if a > > laptop is just not working.? Checking the lines with an oscilloscope > > could also help verify this what's giving the grief (I did not have > > one handy when we were trying to get that CNC mill working). > > > > In terms of serial analyzers, there are several types out there, and > > the ones that I've had the most time on are the HP 4951/4952 series. > > There are different models with different features, but if you are > > going to shop for one, ensure it comes with the "keyboard lid" because > > that's where the line drivers and serial connectors are.? The large > > connector on the back goes to a "pod" that happens to snap on the > > front of the unit when the keyboard is flipped up.? It's much easier > > to find the base units than loose pods, IME.? Check which pod.? I've > > seen many with DB25s, which is probably what you want, but I've also > > seen DC-37 connectors, and non-EIA (RS-232) level shifters.? The good > > news is that among these different models, the pods should be > > interchangable, so if you end up picking up 2 units (not unusual) with > > different base capabilities (some have DC-150 cassette tape, some have > > 3.5" floppy, plus some minor differences) and only one has a DB25 EIA > > pod, you can at least migrate it between the units.? I find the serial > > analyzers invaluable for snooping on the details of what's happening > > on the wire, but any analyzers I have seen have a handy "autoconfig" > > button to sniff traffic and configure the line for monitoring, so it's > > often a quick click to get all the parameters if you don't already > > know them.? Where they really shine is looking for troubles at the > > application layer, debugging Kermit or XMODEM traffic that isn't > > working for any obvious reason.? The advanced stuff you can do is to > > write programs for some analyzers to simulate a host or a client for > > software debugging or to reproduce a problem for deeper analysis - > > this is far beyond the usual "why can't I get this terminal working > > with this vintage machine" but when you need it, you need it. > > > > In summary, I start by scoping the line with an LED traffic light > > (swapping lines or making custom cables where necessary), then move on > > the speed and parity settings (and changing the easier-to-change end), > > then look deeper when the easy stuff doesn't work.? Easy problems take > > minutes or less.? Hard problems can take a long time to resolve. > > > > -ethan -- Chris Elmquist

10 years

Atlanta Open House Tomorrow

by seefriek＠gmail.com

I'd be more than happy to look for what people want, but an address, start time and required payment type would help.

10 years

Halt and Catch Fire season about to start on TV!

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Halt and Catch Fire season about to start on TV! Ed# http://www.amc.com/shows/halt-and-catch-fire?utm_source=newsletter&utm_mediu m=email&utm_content=7-halt-home&utm_campaign=AMC-Weekly

10 years

Tape imaging

by aswood＠t-online.de

I successfully took a (factory new) DEC TSZ07 SCSI tape drive into operation using a Sun SS20 and a Linux box. Now I do have a big pile of CDC, DEC, HP, Convex and IBM tapes and I'd like to create tape images to file to save the tapes content. What is the to be preferred procedure to image the tapes, which software to use and which kind of format to store the images? -- Andreas

10 years

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test-drb August 2016