>On 8/26/12 10:08 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
> for example, is $75 (incl shipping) for a whole computer with 7" LCD
> What I was looking for was something really small to lug around when I have to stick
> something on a serial port in the back of a rack.
I haven't been following this thread too closely, but couldn't you use an HP palmtop (HPLX 200 or HPLX 95)? IIRC, Tony does that with an LX95. Screen is smaller than 7", but they are definitely something "really small" and easy to carry. Also, no need for external power, as they use 2 AA batteries.
So I finally have one of them fancy dehumidifiers that has a finely
adjustable humidi-stat in the basement to keep the collection dry.
What's the ideal setting? I know too dry isn't a good thing, for neither
the collection nor my house. Right now I've got it set to 40% and it's
running pretty aggressively. My basement hovers between 55 and 60 degrees
Fahrenheit throughout the year, and the dehumidifier figures out relative
humidity for you.
I have a Kaypro II whos previous owner swapped the two full-height drives
for a pair of half-height units and made the resulting space into a
cubbyhole for disks and other things. Last time I had a good look at it,
I thought the drives were double-sided. Was it possible to get
double-sided drives to work with the Kaypro II?
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
On 23 August 2012 23:16, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
> True about the boot code, but the 9512 has a parallel port as well as
> its expansion bus connector.
> I've got a serial port cartridge for mine, which I planned to hook up
> to my VAXstation as a terminal - only the eBayer who sold me the
> VAXstation kept not only the disk, but also the cradle and cable,
> replacing which will cost me 30-40? the cost of the VAX. :?(
Is it one of the models which uses a non-standard SCSI connection to
the board? :/
You could always netboot the VAX and run it diskless (which may also
drop the ambient noise by a couple of DBs depending on the vintage of
SCSI drive you have :)
Over the years I've been an enormous fan of netbootable hardware,
including the 90's when I used to netboot, disk format and os
re-install suns from another continent...
Of course I'm currently using my VAXstation as a netboot and network
file server rather than client, but I guess I'm just a little perverse
Totally agree, but not earlier !!! Incredible !
In a message dated 8/27/2012 9:04:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cisin at xenosoft.com writes:
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 FJGJR1 at aol.com wrote:
> Kaypro / Non - Linear Systems [NLS] were very well run / well known
> international companies, that also provided electronic instruments even
> military & meeting their so very strict standards..
I also loved my NLS215 scope.
As to "very well run", . . . how about the "circus tent inventory"
I have a Data General Nova 3 computer, unfortunately the front panel
is missing all of the yellow plastic levers.
Anybody has some spare to sell at reasonable price?
In the case I cannot find the original levers, I could try to realize
a mold to reproduce it using model-casting resins.
I would need however some kind of mechanical drawings, or also some
good picture made together with a ruler, so dimensions
can be somehow measured on the picture itself.
An idea could be to use a scanner as imaging device, as it will not
deform the image, and to scan the lever, specially on the side.
Anybody can help?
Thanks in advance
I am late getting to these so voluminous threads on Kaypros and CP/M,
since I was very busy on many other projects in retirement.
But can add my ? two  cents from the extensive info I have, if you are
I was surprised I did not find a reference to _WWW.VINTAGE-COMPUTER.COM_
(http://www.vintage-computer.com/) site in these posts.
A lot of what these threads presented have already been exhaustively
explored on that site. In fact we have a very extensive ? knowledgebase on
Kaypros? we developed there.
As far as selling Kaypros, you are right, certainly less than $100, some
for only shipping, since they weigh almost 30 pounds because of the metal
case and many for free + many just going to the dumpster.
That site has a ?free? [what a nice ?F? four letter word !] marketplace
for sales / buying a lot of vintage items.
I think eBay does not hit the specific ?target group? for vintage
computers like this site does. But you get a lot of global exposure sure + scams
that would be quickly exposed on the vintage site..
You just can do a search of that site for a great deal of specific
information on so many related topics.
Comparing vintage computers to modern ones may be like comparing the ever
so popular Ford Model T?s for the commodity market at that time to modern
I have a free download of just a ? draft ? of my extensive book on the
early vintage computer era, including Osborne, Kaypro, etc. and many related
My presentation at the 2008 Trenton Computer Festival is based on that
book and is on their Festival CD.
If you want to use just ? sales ? for determining the best, no other
computer is even close for the market segment the Kaypro was specifically
designed for ? very large common market personal, portable computer ?complete ?
- all you needed right out of the box, including software, for a
reasonable price ? ?the ordinary computer user ? ? a commodity product.
There were many others, but much smaller, less popular and did not last
Simply, the issue was ?hypergrowth? that is the title of Osborne?s book.
Production for both very popular Ocbornes and Kaypros was one shipped
every 5 - minutes ? many already paid for and long backlogged !
CP/M was ?the? system at that time, until Gates came along.
The real big factor was Compaq ?legally cloning? the IBM system,
including the ever so important operating system.
Briefly, in the last year before bankruptcy, despite their incredible best
efforts, Kaypro lost 89% of their sales and Compaq set a record of $12
million profit of any computer company at that time.
Game over ! A new era of computing took off ? I use the image of the?
relay race ? ? passing the baton of success to the next better competitor.
? Very bitter memories ?s of such times for many ! But little could be
Lifespan of many sci ? tech companies is just very short as better
products by others continue to evolve ? e.g. evolution ? survival of the fittest
Kaypro / Non - Linear Systems [NLS] were very well run / well known
international companies, that also provided electronic instruments even to the
military & meeting their so very strict standards..
We continue to discover many incredible Kaypros in countries around the
specific country names are even on the back panel - how about the German
Kaypro with German language on the Kaypro screen ! Many stories to tell.
The all metal, practical & well designed case is one reason Kaypros are
still around.. You can even stand on them ! The basic case design did not
change very much thru all their CP/M models.
This is all part of many patterns of my decades of STS ? NSF research
[Science, Technology & Society ? National Science Foundation partial
We are seeing it so dramatically today in so many global ways ? HP, Dell,
Lenovo, IBM, Mircrosoft, Apple, etc .just in computing alone. A great time
of ferment / change, etc. !
Very expected & predictable.
The issues are simply better understanding and managing the process, so
you can apply it to your everyday lives.
Eventually as downsizing / cleaning out in retirement of a very
successful, productive, wide ranging career [ never could have ever dreamed of !], my
six  Kaypro ?8?s ? will be put up for auction as ?packages? with much
extra parts, software, accessories, etc.
Whatever they bring, that is the then ?fair market value? ? at least they
will not go to the dumpster.
I will well promote these auctions so all seriously interested can bid.
Best might be a
? group ? who would then just ? part them out ? for those seriously
interested. I do not have the time with all my STS-NSF research.
So all the best in your continued vintage computing exploration.
Post as GADFRAN on above web site.
Just do your own research and post it for the benefit of us all !
There is no ? one ? right answer, but many depending on many factors to
such complex issues with so many ?tradeoff? that depend on so many other
In a message dated 8/25/2012 9:18:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ajp166 at verizon.net writes:
On 08/25/2012 05:22 AM, Rick Murphy wrote:
> At 11:14 AM 8/24/2012, Allison wrote:
>> David Gesswein wrote:
>>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 12:21:57PM -0400, Allison wrote:
>>>> Unlike many when CP/M came about in the mid 70s I'd experience
>>>> with OS/8 and TOPS-10 and wished that CP/M was more.
>>> I haven't used CP/M. What was the significant items that were better
>>> about OS/8 than CP/M? I had thought they were similar in capability
>>> (and even shared some command names).
>> The biggest difference was OS/8 was multi-task/multi-user.
> OS/8 on the DEC PDP-8 was most definitely single-task, single-user.
> There were other PDP-8 operating systems such as TSS-8 (EDUsystem-50)
> which were multi-task/multi-user, as well as time-sharing systems that
> were multitasking.
> You may be thinking about the fact that OS/8 could be run as a
> background job as part of RTS-8.
Indeed it can and also under TSS-8.
>> It also existed and was more powerful than CP/M years earlier on
>> a CPU (PDP-8) that was more primitive.
> I don't know how anyone could call OS/8 more powerful than CP/M. OS/8
> was a very, very simple system.
So Is CP/M.
> OS/8 does just a few things: it allows you to read/write files, has a
> command decoder, and a keyboard monitor (command line). It has no
> services for critical things like console terminal input/output, has a
> rudimentary file system, and basically doesn't do much.
And the difference is?
> Now, if you replace the "OS/8" above with "RT-11" I'd be in agreement.
RT11 I could consider that almost true. Save for the file system is
actually more primitive
as it cannot do scatter gather and CP/M does. A partially used RT11
disk with deleted files
needs to be compacted to get back the large contiguous spaces same as
But it does many other things very nicely.
To answer your question regarding an original altair price, an 8800 generally sells around $1800 to $3000 depending on what's included and if its shown to work. Quite expensive.
I've heard Grant Stockly (hope I'm not missing an 'e' there) is also going to resume his Altair replicas. They're beautiful systems and exact clones but with that level of work it also demands a higher price tag. I think they were running around 1200?
So vince's microaltair was a nice clone and smaller on purpose but also a more affordable price.
I'm not sure if cpm was available for the apple 1 but thatd be another cheaper option is a replica-1 running cpm.
Tony Duell wrote:
> Using the 8041 as a boot ROM would be problematic IMHO. There could be
> code i nthere to preset the boot ROM bytes one at a time on a noraml read
> cycle I suppose -- i nfact that could eb why the PROG pin is conencted to
> a signal o nteh SIC alled NBOOT. Readign the ROM directly involves
> overvoltaging one of the 8041 pins, I can't eee the circuitry to do that.
Jacob Nevins describes the boot process as the Z80 sees it, here:
Here's the code the 8041 executes at startup:
mov r2, #6 ;6 byte prefix
mov r0, #prefix
mov r1, #0
mov a, #0edh
mov a, #0a0h ;LDI
mov a, r1
movp3 a, @a ;Followed by the byte to write
djnz r2, write_data
mov r2, #5 ;5 byte suffix
jmp mainloop ;Start doing printer control things.
mov a, r0
movp a, @a ;Next byte to send to the Z80
call byte2z80 ;Transmit it
djnz r2, data2z80
jobf byte2z80 ;Wait for Z80 to read the buffer
out dbb, a ;Set the byte to write
mov a, #0ffh
anld p7, a
; 6-byte prefix:
db 0AFh ; XOR A
db 0D3h, 0F0h ; OUT (0F0H), A ;Page in RAM at 0000
db 11h, 02h, 00h ; LD DE, 2 ;Start writing data at 2
; 5-byte suffix:
db 0C3h, 0, 0 ; JP 0 ;Jump to the boot image in RAM
db 0D3h, 0F8h ; OUT (0F8h), A ;And stop reading bytes from