test-drb September 2010

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

163 participants
222 discussions

WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, I'm toying with the idea of doing an MFM/RLL hard drive bolt-on for the DiscFerret (seeing as the DF hardware is basically done now -- I'm just doing a final design check before I send the PCBs off for manufacturing). Problem is, I don't have a drive to play with. Does anyone have any or all of the following kicking around? - MFM or RLL hard drives. I could do with one or two of these; anything's good, as long as it has an ST506-style interface (that is, straight MFM/RLL with no funny business) and is believed to work. I'm ideally aiming for something "of reputable manufacture" -- so not a Kalok Octagon! - Cable kit for the above. So that's the Data and Control cables -- edge connector to IDC plug. - MFM/RLL controller to match the drive. Anything goes here -- e.g. Western Digital WD100x series, DTC, Omti... as long as I can make it work with the drive for long enough to format the drive and 'dd' some data onto it. I'll even consider SCSI-to-MFM bridges if they can be relatively easily tied to a modern PCI, PCIe or USB SCSI card (say, an AHA2940). I'm happy to pay reasonable market value for the above, but that doesn't extend to paying ?390 for drive-on-its-own (read: drive that's had the PCB removed and is basically useless) on "that online auction site"... Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

14 years, 3 months

seeking twiggy floppy image for wikipedia

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Could someone here make a high-resolution scan of a Twiggy floppy that I can put on Wikipedia? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

14 years, 3 months

2-inch floppy usage

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I distinctly remember a dedicated word processing machine that used 2-inch or 2.5-inch floppies. Does anyone remember what it/they were? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

14 years, 3 months

Minolta MS3000 Microfilm Scanner

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

14 years, 3 months

MINC-11 (was Re: Collection reduction, part II the sequel)

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 12:58 PM, John A. Dundas III <dundas at caltech.edu> wrote: > > A MINC-23 can be upgraded to a -73 (which ours has), and I would find that > VERY interesting. > Is the standard backplane 18-bit or 22-bit? Do you need to mod the backplane to upgrade to an -73? I have a MINC-23 currently sitting idle in my garage. If I ever decide to part with it shipping it (Seattle area) would be a challenge. -Glen

14 years, 3 months

Lots of TTL chips

by gerhard.kreuzer＠liftoff.at

Hi, Very interested, we should make a direct contact ... With best regards Gerhard -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Im Auftrag von cctalk-request at classiccmp.org Gesendet: Donnerstag, 02. September 2010 05:03 An: cctalk at classiccmp.org Betreff: cctalk Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3 Send cctalk mailing list submissions to cctalk at classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctalk-request at classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica (Chuck Guzis) 2. Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica (Keith M) 3. Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller (Tony Duell) 4. Re: First digital camera (Fred Cisin) 5. Re: First digital camera (Jerry Wright) 6. RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (Fred Cisin) 7. Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (geoffrey oltmans) 8. Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (Ben) 9. Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (Ben) 10. Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (Sridhar Ayengar) 11. DRTS-11 (E. Groenenberg) 12. RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (Chuck Guzis) 13. Re: DRTS-11 (Chuck Guzis) 14. RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (Rich Alderson) 15. RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (Fred Cisin) 16. Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (William Donzelli) 17. Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (Fred Cisin) 18. Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller (Philip Pemberton) 19. Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller (Dennis Boone) 20. Lots of TTL chips (David Betz) 21. Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller (Philip Pemberton) 22. Re: Lots of TTL chips (Sridhar Ayengar) 23. Re: Lots of TTL chips (Ethan Dicks) 24. Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller (Chuck Guzis) 25. Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA (jim s) 26. Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller (jim s) 27. Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica (Eric Smith) 28. Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica (Eric Smith) 29. Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica (Eric Smith) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 10:08:57 -0700 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7E2639.24859.57E3A2 at cclist.sydex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In the eval kits, the Spartan 6 kits seem to offer a significantly higher bang-for-the-buck than the Spartan 3 ones. What am I missing? --Chuck ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:12:54 -0400 From: Keith M <keithvz at verizon.net> Subject: Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <4C7E8996.2060506 at verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 9/1/2010 12:04 PM, Richard wrote: > In article<4C7DEE9F.5020807 at brouhaha.com>, > Eric Smith<eric at brouhaha.com> writes: > >> Richard wrote about the Xilinx Spartan-3E: >> > I believe the 3E is for embedded designs, i.e. automotive >> applications, etc. >> >> No, they do have special parts rated for an automotive temperature >> range, but that's not what the 3E is. All Spartan FPGAs are >> general-purpose FPGAs. I have no idea what would be special in an FPGA >> for an embedded design; nearly all FPGA designs are embedded, so I think >> there would be no real market for an FPGA that was NOT suitable for >> embedded designs. > > Well, when I try to find out information on Spartan 3 FPGA's on > Xilinx's web site, all the web sections have "Automotive" plastered > all over them. > > Perhaps they are just trying to market to that segment. Maybe. Did you see my other post? There are multiple versions of the Spartan-3E. PDF page 2 here http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds635.pdf outlines the differences between the commercial XC version and the automotive XA version. The XA automotive version is designed to be low-cost but has wide-range temperature support and has reliability qualifications. Otherwise it offers a LIMITED feature set, limited speed grades --- in comparison to the full commercial-grade Spartan-3E (that I own) There are no (AFAICT) specific automotive "features" that make it an extra special fit. Keith ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:48:19 +0100 (BST) From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <m1OqQGF-000J3uC at p850ug1> Content-Type: text/plain > > Hi guys, > > I'm toying with the idea of doing an MFM/RLL hard drive bolt-on for the=20 > DiscFerret (seeing as the DF hardware is basically done now -- I'm just=20 > doing a final design check before I send the PCBs off for manufacturing). > > Problem is, I don't have a drive to play with. > > Does anyone have any or all of the following kicking around? > > - MFM or RLL hard drives. I could do with one or two of these;=20 > anything's good, as long as it has an ST506-style interface (that is,=20 > straight MFM/RLL with no funny business) and is believed to work. I'm=20 > ideally aiming for something "of reputable manufacture" -- so not a=20 > Kalok Octagon! Alas not. Well, actually, I have a number od such drives, but I have even more classic computers that use them. So nothing 'spare' > > - Cable kit for the above. So that's the Data and Control cables --=20 > edge connector to IDC plug. Err, the connectors are still avaialble (easily...) So is IDC ribbon cable. And I assume you own a metalwork vice, since it's so useful for other things. Which means you could make the cables in less time that it's taken me to type this. > - MFM/RLL controller to match the drive. Anything goes here -- e.g.=20 > Western Digital WD100x series, DTC, Omti... as long as I can make it=20 What do you want as the host computer interface? I am pretty sure I can find the odd ISA bus one, but what would you use that with? -tony ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:34:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: First digital camera To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20100901101623.T21871 at shell.lmi.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII As always on this list, ANY use of the word "first" is subject to challenge. On Wed, 1 Sep 2010, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > Hi > Somewhat offtopic (and old), but interesting. Does the d|i|g|i|t|a|l > cassette mean that it is a DECcassette they are using? > http://pluggedin.kodak.com/post/?id=687843 It may very well have been the first digital camera from Kodak, or the first to meet certain completely arbitrary further restrictions (of weight, size, power source, image quality, etc.). But it (1975) was most certainly NOT the first digital camera. In 1970, I saw a Rube-Goldberg homemade system that used an almost unmodified Sony video-camera feeding its signal to a digitizer in the case of a gutted CV series recorder. Is that invalidated because it was two pieces connected with a cable? When I saw it, the tinkerers were putting together an interface to a crude fax machine. (Fax machines have been around a LONG time.) It is also amusing to note that in spite of this very nice "proof of concept", a decade later Kodak was betting the company on chemical capture with digital storage ("photo-CD" and later "picture-CD") Now, Kodak is phasing out a lot of their chemical products :-( -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:38:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wright <g-wright at att.net> Subject: Re: First digital camera To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <811884.32138.qm at web83805.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Don't know about the Cassette, but they used a Motorola Exorciser to render the image. (6800)? Picture is missing the computer? interface and most likely floppy disk system. - Jerry --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at Update.UU.SE> wrote: From: Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at Update.UU.SE> Subject: First digital camera To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 12:06 AM Hi Somewhat offtopic (and old), but interesting. Does the d|i|g|i|t|a|l cassette mean that it is a DECcassette they are using? http://pluggedin.kodak.com/post/?id=687843 Cheers, Pontus. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 11:14:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20100901111320.J21871 at shell.lmi.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I'd love to have that dual 8 inch drive. > See should know that that McIntosh amp is > quite valuable. "Wow! An amplifier named after the computer!" "I wonder why Apple let them do that" ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 11:20:08 -0700 (PDT) From: geoffrey oltmans <oltmansg at bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <250203.77282.qm at web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I wonder why Apple Records let an Apple Computer company alone for so long. ;) ________________________________ From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 1:14:25 PM Subject: RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA > I'd love to have that dual 8 inch drive. > See should know that that McIntosh amp is > quite valuable. "Wow! An amplifier named after the computer!" "I wonder why Apple let them do that" ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:26:48 -0600 From: Ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7E9AE8.6010801 at jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Fred Cisin wrote: >> I'd love to have that dual 8 inch drive. >> See should know that that McIntosh amp is >> quite valuable. > > "Wow! An amplifier named after the computer!" > "I wonder why Apple let them do that" I dare you to hook that to a IPOD output and headphones. :-) Ben. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:29:49 -0600 From: Ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7E9B9D.9060705 at jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed geoffrey oltmans wrote: > I wonder why Apple Records let an Apple Computer company alone for so long. ;) Apple computer has better lawyers? I thought that records and a file would both count as music MEDIA. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:34:35 -0400 From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> Subject: Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7E9CBB.6070607 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ben wrote: > geoffrey oltmans wrote: >> I wonder why Apple Records let an Apple Computer company alone for so >> long. ;) > Apple computer has better lawyers? I thought that records and a file > would both count as music MEDIA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer Peace... Sridhar ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 21:13:13 +0200 From: "E. Groenenberg" <quapla at xs4all.nl> Subject: DRTS-11 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <9e1a269a118c7f0bd11afe800ede49d5.squirrel at webmail.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 I have found a manual which is called the 'DRTS-11 Reference Manual' (Distributed Real Time System) and it talks about a pieces of software which is placed on top of RT-11. According to the description it optimized for I/O and uses 2 systems. One being the 'I/O processor', the other being the DRTS-11 system. The introduction reads : This document describes version V04.00 of the DRTS-11 multiprocessor operating system, and the Qnector processor link.' Apparently this software was made by 'Westfries Systems BV' and/or 'Viking Computer Corp.' Interesting bit is that this system does need one to logon to it and one can switch accounts. BTW, the manual is both the 'User guide', 'Admin guide', and 'Installation Guide'. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Ed -- Dit is een HTML vrije email / This is an HTML free email. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:33:10 -0700 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7E4806.7539.DBEE1F at cclist.sydex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 1 Sep 2010 at 11:14, Fred Cisin wrote: > "Wow! An amplifier named after the computer!" > "I wonder why Apple let them do that" Macintosh .NE. McIntosh Reminds me of then-new Victor demanding that a electronics retailer who'd called his business "Victor Electronics" for 20 years (IIRC) change his business name or face the wrath of their mighty lawyers. That really put me off of that company. On the other hand, I've never used hand lotion to thicken gravy (Wondra). Maybe someday--when I'm very old and terribly confused and can't be trusted with sharp implements. --Chuck ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:35:17 -0700 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: DRTS-11 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7E4885.29423.DDDDAB at cclist.sydex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 1 Sep 2010 at 21:13, E. Groenenberg wrote: > > I have found a manual which is called the 'DRTS-11 Reference Manual' > (Distributed Real Time System) ... > Does this ring a bell to anyone? Never heard of it, but I can well imagine that the name was just too good to resist pronouciation. ("Dirts-11" or better yet, "Dirtsy") --Chuck ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:41:04 -0700 From: Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> Subject: RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <CC28F43ED4708D489ABCF68D06D7F556040A5CCA41 at 505DENALI.corp.vnw.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Chuck Guzis Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:33 PM > On 1 Sep 2010 at 11:14, Fred Cisin wrote: >> "Wow! An amplifier named after the computer!" >> "I wonder why Apple let them do that" > Macintosh .NE. McIntosh In fact, Apple *did* pay a small fee to McIntosh just to head off exactly this kind of thing all the way back in 1984. The payment was reported in _BYTE_, or another similar venue. The computer company vis-a-vis the music company has been touched on else- where in this thread. Thanks, Rich Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.PDPplanet.org/ http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/ ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:55:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: RE: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20100901125331.O25169 at shell.lmi.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > "Wow! An amplifier named after the computer!" > > "I wonder why Apple let them do that" On Wed, 1 Sep 2010, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Macintosh .NE. McIntosh They ARE close enopugh for trademark squabbles. It is "common knowledge" that Apple Computer paid McIntosh Audio a royalty for using the name. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 16:25:47 -0400 From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> Subject: Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <AANLkTi=-1OYH__uPx0W4Tr7XZkVM9+8gF13tgq3Ds4eM at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > They ARE close enopugh for trademark squabbles. > It is "common knowledge" that Apple Computer paid McIntosh Audio a royalty > for using the name. A purchase of legal protection, or a PR stunt? I bet a bit of both. -- Will ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:47:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20100901134219.U31991 at shell.lmi.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > They ARE close enopugh for trademark squabbles. > > It is "common knowledge" that Apple Computer paid McIntosh Audio a royalty > > for using the name. On Wed, 1 Sep 2010, William Donzelli wrote: > A purchase of legal protection, or a PR stunt? I bet a bit of both. At the time, the news reports referred to it as having been initiated by McIntosh Labs. Does anybody know the details on the Apple Music deal? At the time, it was touted as a mutual non-competition agreement. That would seem to preclude "iTunes". Or were there other relevant clauses? Or did it have an expiration date? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:50:58 +0100 From: Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> Subject: Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7EBCB2.6060504 at philpem.me.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 31/08/10 13:48, Tony Duell wrote: > Alas not. Well, actually, I have a number od such drives, but I have even > more classic computers that use them. So nothing 'spare' Yeah, I've heard of a lot of folk in the same situation. I'm actually getting slightly tempted to hunt down a 1st-gen Acorn Archimedes with Acorn-installed ST506 hard drive. That would give me a drive and a known-good controller. > Err, the connectors are still avaialble (easily...) So is IDC ribbon > cable. And I assume you own a metalwork vice, since it's so useful for > other things. Which means you could make the cables in less time that > it's taken me to type this. Yes I could make a cable, but it's easier to use a ready-made one (if you can find one) than it is to make one up specially :) >> - MFM/RLL controller to match the drive. Anything goes here -- e.g.=20 >> Western Digital WD100x series, DTC, Omti... as long as I can make it=20 > > What do you want as the host computer interface? I am pretty sure I can > find the odd ISA bus one, but what would you use that with? ISA would be fine. Basically I need something I can hook up to a PC (either my clunky old 386-with-ISA-IDE-controller or something more recent) that will allow me to format the drive, and write something to it. Bulk-erase by holding WR_GATE active and WR_DATA low and track-stepping, then format using the controller. Read the data back with the Ferret and see what's there (probably an MFM bitstream based on the Seagate format recommendations). SCSI would be fine too, but then I'd have to buy a SCSI card... :) And it'd have to be capable of talking to a (relatively) modern SCSI card (PCI interface; Adaptec AHA2940 or something like that). At the moment, it's a "this would be really cool to have" type feature addition -- it doesn't seem that much harder to do MFM HDD dumping, and would make the DiscFerret the only imager capable of doing this at transition level. SMD might also be an option... later. -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/ ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:03:49 -0400 From: Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> Subject: Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20100901210349.37AC2A580D2 at yagi.h-net.msu.edu> > ISA would be fine. Basically I need something I can hook up to a PC > (either my clunky old 386-with-ISA-IDE-controller or something more > recent) that will allow me to format the drive, and write something to > it. Bulk-erase by holding WR_GATE active and WR_DATA low and > track-stepping, then format using the controller. Read the data back > with the Ferret and see what's there (probably an MFM bitstream based on > the Seagate format recommendations). My understanding is that there's enough variation in the low level formatting between controllers that MFM drives aren't very portable. That could be interpreted as timing differences between models, or as timing variations in different instances of the same model, or even actual structure differences. I don't know which was meant by whatever source told me this long ago. Even assuming it is true, it doesn't necessarily kill your concept, though it might make implementation a hell of a lot more exciting. De ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 17:13:46 -0400 From: David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> Subject: Lots of TTL chips To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <BDE2D6FB-2A41-447C-9B36-94931D64B95D at xlisper.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone want a whole slew of 74xxx TTL chips? Most are new although I suspect I bought them from some surplus place back in the '70s so I can't guarantee that they all work. I'm trying to clean out a parts cabinet and I don't want to throw these away if someone can use them. I also have a bunch of 27xxx EPROMs. I think they are mostly 2708s but there are certainly some 2716s and 2732s. I think there are even a few 27160s. I don't have fancy conductive foam to ship these in so you'll get a box full of stuff with possibly some bent pins. Anyone interested? ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:21:52 +0100 From: Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> Subject: Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7EC3F0.5050905 at philpem.me.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 01/09/10 22:03, Dennis Boone wrote: > My understanding is that there's enough variation in the low level > formatting between controllers that MFM drives aren't very portable. > That could be interpreted as timing differences between models, or as > timing variations in different instances of the same model, or even > actual structure differences. I don't know which was meant by whatever > source told me this long ago. There are format differences. Different CRC implementations, different encoding rules (gap lengths and so on), slightly different ways of encoding the data (LSB-first, MSB-first, bit-sequential, staggered), interleaving, ...... The fun part is figuring out what those differences are, then 'teaching' the software how to identify them, and make sense of what's there. Same as I did with MagScan (which is still tied up in Licensing Hell and very close to being rewritten from scratch). > Even assuming it is true, it doesn't necessarily kill your concept, > though it might make implementation a hell of a lot more exciting. My life would be FAR more boring without all these fun and interesting puzzles :) I'm not above "blackbox" reverse engineering if it proves necessary. Change one byte, see what happens, that sort of thing. -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/ ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:29:24 -0400 From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Lots of TTL chips To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7EC5B4.5080102 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed David Betz wrote: > Does anyone want a whole slew of 74xxx TTL chips? Most are new > although I suspect I bought them from some surplus place back in the > '70s so I can't guarantee that they all work. I'm trying to clean out > a parts cabinet and I don't want to throw these away if someone can > use them. I also have a bunch of 27xxx EPROMs. I think they are > mostly 2708s but there are certainly some 2716s and 2732s. I think > there are even a few 27160s. I don't have fancy conductive foam to > ship these in so you'll get a box full of stuff with possibly some > bent pins. Anyone interested? Yes. Location? Peace... Sridhar ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 17:59:45 -0400 From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Lots of TTL chips To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <AANLkTi=n5924C1K10OZFTVPdonUAOn0Wu+CyumNDToSs at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 9/1/10, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> wrote: > Does anyone want a whole slew of 74xxx TTL chips? Yes, especially if you mean TTL vs TTL-LS. I have a use for many TTL parts for PDP-8 repair (7474, 7410, 7420, 7430, 7440 and several others). -ethan ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:11:42 -0700 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7E6D2E.19247.16D104C at cclist.sydex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 1 Sep 2010 at 22:21, Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'm not above "blackbox" reverse engineering if it proves necessary. > Change one byte, see what happens, that sort of thing. ...and then after you've cracked the MFM/RLL/ARLL hard drives, you can tackle the various flavors of ESDI... Fun! --Chuck ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:46:48 -0700 From: jim s <jws at jwsss.com> Subject: Re: OT: Vintage electronics/HAM radio for sale-Costa Mesa, CA To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7E9F98.3080303 at jwsss.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > geoffrey oltmans wrote: >> I wonder why Apple Records let an Apple Computer company alone for so >> long. ;) > Apple computer has better lawyers? I thought that records and a file > would both count as music MEDIA. > > They didn't, but the legal issues have been settled. Jim ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:49:13 -0700 From: jim s <jws at jwsss.com> Subject: Re: WTD -- ST506 style (MFM or RLL) hard drive and controller To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7EA029.9050404 at jwsss.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> Hi guys, >> >> I'm toying with the idea of doing an MFM/RLL hard drive bolt-on for the=20 >> DiscFerret (seeing as the DF hardware is basically done now -- I'm just=20 >> doing a final design check before I send the PCBs off for manufacturing). >> >> Problem is, I don't have a drive to play with. >> >> Does anyone have any or all of the following kicking around? >> >> - MFM or RLL hard drives. I could do with one or two of these;=20 >> anything's good, as long as it has an ST506-style interface (that is,=20 >> straight MFM/RLL with no funny business) and is believed to work. I'm=20 >> ideally aiming for something "of reputable manufacture" -- so not a=20 >> Kalok Octagon! > Alas not. Well, actually, I have a number od such drives, but I have even > more classic computers that use them. So nothing 'spare' > >> - Cable kit for the above. So that's the Data and Control cables --=20 >> edge connector to IDC plug. > Err, the connectors are still avaialble (easily...) So is IDC ribbon > cable. And I assume you own a metalwork vice, since it's so useful for > other things. Which means you could make the cables in less time that > it's taken me to type this. > > >> - MFM/RLL controller to match the drive. Anything goes here -- e.g.=20 >> Western Digital WD100x series, DTC, Omti... as long as I can make it=20 > What do you want as the host computer interface? I am pretty sure I can > find the odd ISA bus one, but what would you use that with? > > -tony > > I have an ST 225 / 238 that I have no particular use for. I'm in Los Angeles. It was a trophy at the local Goodwill Computer works, and I relieved them of it. I don't know where it came from, nor do I have a matching system to run it on at the moment. However it is not going to have priceless data from some system I know of on it, so no data or other attachment to it. Might be nice to drain it, but one has to do what one has to do to develope the first of anything, so wiping it out isn't a real big problem. jim ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:46:25 -0600 From: Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> Subject: Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7F1001.3040100 at brouhaha.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Richard wrote: > Well, when I try to find out information on Spartan 3 FPGA's on > Xilinx's web site, all the web sections have "Automotive" plastered > all over them. > > Perhaps they are just trying to market to that segment. > The Spartan-3 (no alpha suffix) is now an "older" family (as compared to the -3E, -3A, and -6), so yes, they might only be "pushing" the automotive spec parts, but they are still in full production in the standard commercial and industrial grades. Basically to get information for older devices out of the Xilinx web site requires clicking on "all devices" or some such thing. In fact, even the older Spartan-XL and Spartan-2 families are in full production, though they are not recommended for new designs, and you have to use older ("archived") versions of the ISE software to develop for them. (For Spartan-XL, there is no version of ISE that included HDL synthesis, so I definitely recommend against trying to use those for hobbyist development with Verilog or VHDL.) Beyond that, even some of the XC3000 and XC4000 parts are still in production. AFAIK, the only FPGA families that Xilinx have completely discontinued are the original XC2000 series (introduced in 1985), XC5200 series, and XC6200 series. Generally speaking, it only makes sense to use the most recent two generations of FPGAs for new designs, as the newer parts are always more cost-effective than the older ones, thanks largely to Moore's Law. Usually the only reason not to use the very latest (currently Spartan-6) is that the availability is not as good as the previous generation (Spartan-3E, -3A). Eric ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:53:26 -0600 From: Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> Subject: Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7F11A6.5070209 at brouhaha.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed geoffrey oltmans wrote: > Don't some FPGAs have dedicated peripherals on them for specific applications > besides the field programmable parts of the silicon? I can't tell you much about Altera, but some of the dedicated hardware in Xilinx FPGAs have included: * block RAMs, 18 or 36 Kbit, in almost all parts * multipliers or multiply/accumulate blocks in many parts * very high speed (>1Gbps) serial transceivers in some parts * a small amount of logic for traditional PCI, in the Spartan-2 * hardware PCIe endpoint logic in the Spartan-6 and Virtex-6 * hardware DDR SDRAM controller in the Spartan-6 and Virtex-6 * PowerPC processor core in some Virtex-4 and Virtex-5 parts * 10/100/1000 Ethernet MAC in some Virtex-5 and Virtex-6 parts For details, such as which parts have how many of what hardware blocks, you'll have to check the datasheets. Generally they only put in hardware blocks for things that can't be implemented reasonably efficiently in the fabric. I consider the 10/100/1000 Ethernet MAC to be an exception to that rule of thumb. Certainly if you want the kinds of traditional peripherals found in early microcomputers (GPIO, timers, UARTs, video display controllers), those will have to be in the fabric. Eric ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:03:12 -0700 From: Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> Subject: Re: Getting started with programmable logic, was Re: Cray 1 replica To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4C7F13F0.8050004 at brouhaha.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Chuck Guzis wrote: > In the eval kits, the Spartan 6 kits seem to offer a significantly > higher bang-for-the-buck than the Spartan 3 ones. Certainly the Spartan-6 chips are far more cost effective than Spartan-3. For eval boards, I'm not convinced that this is the case yet. There aren't nearly as many inexpensive development boards for the -6 yet. I haven't yet seen any inexpensive Spartan-6 boards that seem comparable to the Digilent Spartan-3E or Spartan-3A boards, in terms of FPGA capacity, on-board peripheral interfaces/connectors, and availability of GPIO pins on connectors. Eric End of cctalk Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3 *************************************

14 years, 3 months

Documentation listed on VCGM

by marvin＠west.net

I just put some documentation up on the Vintage Computer & Gaming Marketplace site: http://marketplace.vintage-computer.com/ These are some of the docs a friend of mine had. Listed right now are the docs for the Western Peripherals TC-120 Nova Tape Controller, Ziatech ZT-7488, and ADDS CONSUL 520/580 Desktop Terminals. Other docs I'll be listing shortly include the ADM-1 Reference Manual (appears to be a copy) and operator's handbook, ADM-2 Maintenance Manual (appears to be a copy) and operator's handbook, and The Operations Manual for the AQ8080Z Microprocessor Analyzer (for use with the Pro-Log 7803.) Later today, I expect to get the HP 9825As checked out and listed (so far, they are in reasonable condition and don't work as I would expect.) Marvin

14 years, 3 months

Collection reduction, part II the sequel

by binarydinosaurs＠gmail.com

On 2 September 2010 15:13, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > At 11:00 AM +0100 9/2/10, Adrian Graham wrote: >> >> I'm guessing there's no interest at all in my Grey Wall given the >> online availability of docs and CDs etc, I've dragged it all between >> houses for 10 years now, maybe it's time to hit the recycler and give >> some of those trees back :) > > You're on the wrong side of the Pond, plus we should have more than a > complete Grey Wall for the library, and we just got an Orange one. Fortunately it's looking like the wall will be saved from the pulpers thanks to Dave Caroline, my little fiches too. There's a few orange manuals too but I'm keeping my RT11 stuff. > Now this makes me wish you were local, not that I'm sure where I'd put one. > ?I haven't had time to verify since moving, but I've a feeling my last one > is dead, or nearly so (ISTR it having started having issues). Bah, I'd not fancy shipping it over the water :/ > This surprises me. ?Sure a MINC isn't the fastest box, but it is definitely > interesting. ?I had one for about two hours, sadly I traded it to Jim > Willing for an external RX02 drive unit. Double bonus with this MINC - it has the external RX02! -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home? computer collection? www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

14 years, 3 months

Cray 1 replica

by ggs＠shiresoft.com

Hi, I just came across this and it's pretty cool. Some has built a somewhat functional 1/10 scale Cray-1 using a Xylinx dev board. Here's the link: http://chrisfenton.com/homebrew-cray-1a/ TTFN - Guy

14 years, 3 months

Lots of TTL chips

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

Does anyone want a whole slew of 74xxx TTL chips? Most are new although I suspect I bought them from some surplus place back in the '70s so I can't guarantee that they all work. I'm trying to clean out a parts cabinet and I don't want to throw these away if someone can use them. I also have a bunch of 27xxx EPROMs. I think they are mostly 2708s but there are certainly some 2716s and 2732s. I think there are even a few 27160s. I don't have fancy conductive foam to ship these in so you'll get a box full of stuff with possibly some bent pins. Anyone interested?

14 years, 3 months

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test-drb September 2010