test-drb March 2010

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

182 participants
231 discussions

by derschjo＠mail.msu.edu

Recently acquired a VCB02 (thanks again, Ulli!) which I hope to get running in my MicroVAX III. I'm looking for the cable that connects >from the bulkhead to the monitor, keyboard and mouse (my research has revealed this to be referred to as "BC18Z-10" in DEC documentation). I have a compatible keyboard, but I'd like to find a mouse as well... Anyone have one to spare, or know of a decent supplier? Thanks, Josh

14 years, 9 months

SD card on the "obvious" classic bus

by joachim.thiemann＠gmail.com

Hello, with all this talk about SD card for QBUS machines, I was wondering: SD (and SDHC) is easy to interface (if you're not too concerned about speed) and has been attached to pretty much everything under the sun; (well, I guess Jim is still working on the C= version of IEEE-488) so is there anyone making an SD card drive for SCSI? To me that would be a very versatile classic interface; I'd love to have a dead-silent drive for my Amiga, Macs and Sparcs. ST owners would like it too, I'm sure. I know there is one company making SCSI-to-CF interfaces, aimed primarily at old synthesizers (http://www.scsiforsamplers.com/). Unfortunately, the online "search space" is somewhat poisoned due to the fact that most Linux/BSD/whatever OS's use a SCSI emulation to access SD cards - but eyeballing several pages of results I didn't find any SD-to-SCSI devices. I certainly don't have the technical chops to make something like that myself from scratch - but I'd guess a low-speed hack to do it could be accomplished with a Atmel or similar chip with at least 21 IO pins (16 for the SCSI side, 5 for the SD card) but I don't know what kind of line drivers would be needed on the SCSI side. Is anyone aware of such a project in the works? Joe. -- Joachim Thiemann :: http://www.tsp.ece.mcgill.ca/~jthiem

14 years, 9 months

SD card on the "obvious" classic bus

by julianskidmore＠yahoo.com

Hi folks, Joachim Thiemann wrote: > so is there anyone making an SD card drive for SCSI? A good one to look at is: http://www.circuitgeek.com/the-outstanding-avr-based-scsi-ram-disk/ The above project has also been adapted to work with a standard ATA hard disk and Compact Flash. It's an open development project: you can download the source code to the firmware and schematics. His website seems to be down right now though. And there's also this: http://www.reactivedata.com/Products/SCSI_Bridge_Emulators_to_CF/index.php It seems to me that a good route would be to build, say a QBUS card driven by a microcontroller. Given that even an AVR can handle SCSI comms at a hardware level by itself it can probably handle MSCP and a lot of the interface logic. -cheers from julz @P

14 years, 9 months

rare and not-so rare systems available

by useddec＠gmail.com

I collect Zeiss equipment, and almost anything optical made brass. But a Hasselblad...hmmm. Paul On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > At 7:44 PM -0800 3/8/10, David Griffith wrote: > >> I'll take your unwanted Model M keyboards. >> > > Hehehe... I only have two, and they're among the very few Classic Computer > items that I want to keep. > > Is anyone in Oregon looking for Classic Hardware? If so what. I'm looking > to start selling off my collection. Though someone with a nice Leica (with > lenses), or Hasselblad or Large Format Lenses might be able to score a good > trade. > > Yes, this includes rare systems. Except for some PDP-11, VAX, Alpha, and > Commodore gear I think I'm looking to unload most of my classic gear. > > The only computer I use at home any more is my Mac. I just don't have time > or interest in Classic Computers any more. > > Zane > > > > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | >

14 years, 9 months

calculating electricity costs

by brianlanning＠gmail.com

Suppose my power company claims that the charge is $0.02407 per killowatt/hour. If I have a computer (or anything) that draws maybe 100 watts. that should be 0.1kw/h x 0.02407 x 24 hours = 5.7768 cents per day or $1.73 a month. I've been under the impression for quite some time that it costs $20 a month to run a typical modern desktop computer 24 hours a day for a month. I know there are taxes and fees thrown into the power bill. But what's wrong with my math? Was I wrong before or am I wrong now? I got this kw/h price from the power company web site burried in a pdf somewhere. It looked like the right price to me. Maybe the actual charge is much higher? brian

14 years, 9 months

Anyone running RTE-M on an HP 21MX series M, E, or F?

by js＠cimmeri.com

Hi. I'm curious if anyone's got RTE-M booting from mini-cartridge (such as 2645A terminal) or 8" floppy (such as 9885M) for their HP 1000 21MX (eg. 2113E). I'm attempting restoration of a 2113E with the extremely kind assistance of J. David Bryan, and would love to find a bootable primary copy. It would also be great to hear what OSes folks are running on these, and which version they like the best. Thanks very much, John Singleton Rockville, MD.

14 years, 9 months

Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by spedraja＠ono.com

I would be interested. I got one PDP-11/23 PLUS. If someone develops it for one PDP8E I got one too. Regards Sergio 2010/3/10 Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> > There was a thread recently on the comp.sys.dec newsgroup which ended up > with the suggestion from David Riley that he would be prepared to build an > FPGA-based board with a QBUS interface on one side and an SD interface on > the other which anyone could then program to emulate any disk/controller > they like. I have been in touch with him to see how much interest he has > had, because he needs a minimum number of about 10 to make it viable, but > so > far there has only been me and one other person showing an interest. David > reckons they would come to a little over $200 each (possibly less if there > is more interest). David is not yet on cctalk so he agreed to let me > cross-post this to cctalk on his behalf, but I have cc'd him so you can > reply direct. > > Regards > > Rob >

14 years, 9 months

Wirewrap boards update

by cclist＠sydex.com

Steve, it's hard to tell. Are all of these boards used? If not, I may be interested in one. Cutting wire out of one of these is a very tedious job! Anyone have any quick-and-dirty suggestions? Thanks, Chuck

14 years, 9 months

Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk- > bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt > Sent: 10 March 2010 21:49 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Cc: 'David Riley' > Subject: Solid State Disk replacement for RD53, 54, RK05, RL02/02 > > There was a thread recently on the comp.sys.dec newsgroup which ended > up > with the suggestion from David Riley that he would be prepared to build > an > FPGA-based board with a QBUS interface on one side and an SD interface > on > the other which anyone could then program to emulate any > disk/controller > they like. I have been in touch with him to see how much interest he > has > had, because he needs a minimum number of about 10 to make it viable, > but so > far there has only been me and one other person showing an interest. > David > reckons they would come to a little over $200 each (possibly less if > there > is more interest). David is not yet on cctalk so he agreed to let me > cross-post this to cctalk on his behalf, but I have cc'd him so you can > reply direct. > > Regards > > Rob As David is currently unable to post to the list he has asked me to post the following on his behalf: ------------- So it seems there's at least quite a bit of discussion generated about the board. For those curious, here are the major design points (LONG email ahead): - The main QBUS interface (before the buffers) will be an FPGA (Altera Cyclone III EP3C16 at this point, for cost, but the same footprint will fit a 3C25 or 3C40 as well). This FPGA should be large enough to fit even rather complex devices fairly handily (you can make a soft-core 32-bit processor in less than 1k logic elements, and a 3C16 has 16k). This is, of course, assuming you build it all in the FPGA fabric; you don't have to because... - The FPGA will be bolted to the bus (16-bit, of course) of a Freescale MCF5208. This is a ColdFire (68k architecture) which runs at 166 MHz (88 MHz external bus) and also contains a 10/100 Ethernet controller. The controller requires an external PHY, but this is actually an advantage; by connecting the processor's MII to both a real 10/100 PHY and the FPGA, we can provide both RJ45 for straight-up Ethernet connections and build an MII-to-AUI bridge in the FPGA (not a day's work, for sure, but certainly doable). This means you could use this as a replacement DELQA if you have a cable kit for the external AUI connector; connect to thick/thinnet, etc. Alternatively, you could stream hard disk/tape images from a remote file server. Of course, it'll have a handful of serial consoles. In theory, you could make a CPU board with SLUs and all 4 MB RAM out of the FPGA, but this would be an extensive design effort. As to whomever asked for a clock, that should work as well. Anything you can do with a QBUS card can be done on the FPGA, it's just a matter of how much work you want to put into it. :-) I currently have 32 MB RAM and 4 MB flash slated for the processor (the processor should read the FPGA image off the SD card). - My vision for the basic build of the FPGA would actually be to just provide an interrupt-based bus interface for the processor. If the processor defines apertures for the CSRs and uses an ISR to provide the data for the reads and the writes, a 166MHz processor ought to be able to respond quickly enough to make for a fairly speedy card. If that's not enough performance, one can always implement the device in the actual FPGA fabric (if one is good with FPGAs, which can take a while for people who aren't hardware designers). Additionally, we should be able to support multiple "virtual" cards in a single board; the only limitation is the number of apertures that will fit nicely in the FPGA and the overhead of the software running on processor. At least 4 should be easily achievable. A simple DMA controller in the FPGA would go a long way towards making the performance of mass storage acceptable (processor DMAs into FPGA, FPGA DMAs into QBUS, or vice versa). This means that even software-only people should be able to implement the devices in an emulator-like fashion (without excluding the possibility of actual FPGA implementations). - Since the Coldfire is 68k and has excellent GCC support, it can be programmed entirely with Free Software. The actual hardware to program it costs $80 standalone (more or less; depends on who's building it), but most of that is assembly and PCB costs. I could integrate the same hardware onto the board for an additonal $5 or so instead. The FPGA can be programmed entirely with Altera's free (not to be confused with Free) Web Edition version of Quartus, but to program it you need either a) a $75 JTAG cable to program it or b) something running on the ColdFire to program the FPGA image (which will be the default mode on boot). The JTAG cable gives you the advantage of running the FPGA-based logic analyzer. - And of course, yes, it will be a fully open architecture. I'm using KiCAD (FOSS) to do the schematic and layout. Anyone should be able to make the board if they want, but it'll be expensive for small runs. For those of you who think $200 each is in the stratosphere, here's my current (rough) BOM at two different run sizes: Part Description Qty Price at 10 Price at 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------ EP3C16E144C8N FPGA (EQFP-144) 1 26.70 26.70 DP83848 10/100 PHY 1 4.29 3.50 SST39VF3201 2M x 16 NOR flash 1 3.61 3.61 IS43R16160B-6 16M x 16 DDR RAM 1 6.00 5.40 EN5335QI DC-DC converter 3 5.51(16.53) 5.41(16.23) SN74AS641DW Octal bus xcvr 4 4.80(19.20) 4.04(16.16) J0026D21ENL RJ45 w/magnetics 1 4.825 4.825 Assembly aapcb.com, 50 parts 1 47.00 39.80 PCB 4pcb.com 1 72.44 36.26 --------------------------------------------------------------- Total 200.59 152.48 This doesn't include the scads of little resistors and capacitors and a few other cheap parts I'd need to place, which while very cheap may drive the cost of assembly up. The PCB pricing is for a 5.3" x 8.4" board, 1 edge gold fingers, 4 layers, controlled stackup (There are too many high-speed buses on this thing to risk a 2-layer board and no controlled impedance). Eliminating the gold fingers only brings the price down about $10. My $200 figure was a sort of back-of-the envelope calculation (I hadn't made out a detailed costed BOM yet). The cost is still subject to change, and a number of the parts (particularly the MCF5208) are long-lead (14 weeks and no stock anywhere). Most pricing was done at Mouser except for the components I couldn't find there (the PHY and the FPGA, and the RJ45 was cheaper at DK), which came from Digi-Key. This also doesn't include the AUI transceiver buffering, which I haven't yet worked out, and I still haven't 100% finalized the arrangement of the QBUS buffers (as it is, I'll be using transistors for a few of them since the signals don't all fit nicely in the mold of a '245-style transceiver like the 74AS641). Also, someone mentioned nonstandard thickness. As far as I was aware, the boards were 62 mils, but I haven't measured (and couldn't find a reference anywhere, and don't have a micrometer). Anyone know otherwise? In any case, I hope this answers a number of the questions out there. My plan is to implement the basic FPGA hardware mentioned as well as an implementation of the software stack for at least a few of the controller cards I have in my possession. The user end (serial console) of the processor should be able to load board personalities from the SD card as well, so setting up a repository of personalities (if others develop any) would be the way to go there.

14 years, 9 months

calculating electricity costs

by cfox1＠cogeco.ca

At 11:32 AM 3/11/2010, you wrote: >Suppose my power company claims that the charge is $0.02407 per >killowatt/hour. If I have a computer (or anything) that draws maybe 100 >watts. that should be 0.1kw/h x 0.02407 x 24 hours = 5.7768 cents per day >or $1.73 a month. I've been under the impression for quite some time that >it costs $20 a month to run a typical modern desktop computer 24 hours a day >for a month. I know there are taxes and fees thrown into the power bill. >But what's wrong with my math? Was I wrong before or am I wrong now? I got >this kw/h price from the power company web site burried in a pdf somewhere. >It looked like the right price to me. Maybe the actual charge is much >higher? > >brian > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2736 - Release Date: >03/11/10 02:33:00 I don't know how things are where you are located, but in good old Windsor Ontario my electricity bill for an unoccupied apartment was as follows: Electricity: 33.206 kWh @0.058 / kWh $ 1.93 Delivery $ 12.65 Regulatory charges $ 0.46 Debt retirement charges $ 0.22 GST $ 0.77 TOTAL $ 16.03 Cheers Charlie Fox

14 years, 9 months

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test-drb March 2010