test-drb August 2008

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

202 participants
323 discussions

lead-free solder (was: Setting up a VAXstation)

by halarewich＠gmail.com

heres a link to some lead solder http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1290635&cp=2568443.2… Chris On 10/2/07, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > > At 11:37 PM +0100 10/1/07, Tony Duell wrote: > >For the first part, I'd offer to do it for you, but it would be illegal > >to do so. Owing to our totally daft laws, (a) I'd have to use lead-free > >solder, which I don't have, don't trust, and am not set up to use and > > How hard is it to work with lead-free solder, and is it becoming a > problem to get traditional solder in the US? I've been meaning to > pick up a few rolls. As I'm still using a roll purchased in the 80's > from Rat Shack for building a couple things for my VIC-20, I haven't > been going through it that fast. Though I seem to be using it more > often now than. > > >(b) > >it has been said that if an enthusiast (specifically a model engineer, > >but it would apply here too) does jobs for others, then his workshop > >becomes a workplace and is covered by all the daft health-and-safety > >rules that I have no desire to get involved with, and which quite > >honestly, would stop me from getting on with things. > > Does it count as a job if you don't take payment? > > Zane > > > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | >

15 years, 7 months

OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal

by tonym＠compusource.net

I thought some of you might appreciate this... Microsoft is offering for one day only, today, Office Ultimate Edition for $59.95. This has everything in it, I think retail is like $500-600. www.theultimatesteal.com Ya need to have access to an email address at a .EDU though. You enter in the email addy, and it emails a link to the address. Not a bad deal, for excel, access, Word, Ourlook, PowerPoint Got it for my wife, as she is working on her BS at Florida Atlantic They will apparently have Windows Vista Ultimate for $65 at the same site on 9/8/2008 I think the deal ends at midnight, or I think you had to have registered for it, and gotten the email by midnight. Tony

15 years, 7 months

Free Linux and OpenOffice - even if your email address doesn't

by tonym＠compusource.net

>-----Original Message----- >From: David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu >Sent 8/31/2008 6:38:15 PM >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Free Linux and OpenOffice - even if your email address doesn't > >I just chucked out a bunch of Linux CDs from 1993/1994... > >-- >David Griffith I'm probably going to have to do the same thing... I have multitudes of trans-ameritech cd's, not to mention super-old versions of RH, TurboLinux, OpenLinux... Man - are we packrats, or what? Tony

15 years, 7 months

CDC/VAX tapes and drives

by ekklein＠pacbell.net

Got this in the mail but the tape systems aren?t of interest to me: --- Found your name on a website related to antique computers and components.??There are some vintage items at our company that we will be discarding when we move to a new location so I am contacting you to see if you have any interest.? We have reels of tapes and tape drives that can read tapes written on VAX and CDC systems.? We also have cabinets for hanging reels of tapes.? There is other stuff around too like old PC systems and software that we are just beginning to go through.? So let me know what you are interested in.? Also if you are not interested in the tapes or tape drives do you know anyone who is?? I'd rather give them to someone who wants them then to send them to the recycler. --- If you are interested please drop me a line and I?ll forward the contact info. ----- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum - The Vintage Computer Forums marketplace.vintage-computer.com - The Vintage Computer and Gaming Marketplace

15 years, 7 months

IBM 5150 rom: 5700051 at U33 - anyone have this?

by jzg22＠drexel.edu

I'm looking for a specific rom for an IBM 5150 machine: rom 5700051 at location U33. This rom was only used on the very earliest (16-64k MB) 5150 machines. I know Rich Cini has a disassembly of it on his site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/files/PCBios.ASM but does anyone have the original binary image? It can easily be dumped from a working 5150 using a dos boot diskette and the instructions at http://mess.toseciso.org/dumping:dump_bios_using_debug/ The actual chip is an MK36xxx rom, which requires a pulse train on /CE in order to read properly. Some eprom programmers will not read these correctly at all, the first byte will fill the entire rom image because the address is never re-latched. (MK36xxx roms will not read properly without a pulse train of HIGH LOW <read data bus then set next address> HIGH LOW <read data bus then set next address>, etc. IBM loved to use these, for some reason, and only switched to real 2364/23256/2764/27256/etc on the ps/2 machines and the later ATs, and on certain expansion cards such as the Xebec hdd controller on the XT,which uses a 2764 for the z80 rom.) The chip can be read in an incompatible eprom programmer by sticking the chip in some solderless breadboard and wiring it to the rom socket in the following way: programmer A0 through an inverter(7404 will work fine) and connecting to rom /CE programmer A1 to rom A0 programmer A2 to rom A1 etc. Data lines connect directly. read the rom as a 27128, then toss the first(0x00), third(0x02), and every odd(0x0x where x is even) byte thereafter, and keep the rest. other than the /CE change, the mk36xxx is pinout compatible to a 2364, which has a different pinout than a 2764 or 27128 does: +--------------+ A7 |1 +--+ 24| Vcc A6 |2 23| A8 A5 |3 22| A9 A4 |4 21| A12 A3 |5 20| /CE A2 |6 2364 19| A10 A1 |7 18| A11 A0 |8 17| D7 D0 |9 16| D6 D1 |10 15| D5 D2 |11 14| D4 Vss |12 13| D3 +--------------+ P.S. does anyone have an IBM 5100 or other machine in the pre-PC 51xx series? I'm looking for info from those, too. Thanks! -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu(@t)hotmail(d0t)com jzg22(@t)drexel(d0t)edu

15 years, 7 months

Schematics of Atanasoff-Berry Computer logic circuits?

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

> > A multi-stage direct coupled vacuum tube circuit.? Fun. > Yes, be prepared for some fun, in both senses of the word: it is fun to play > around with, but the implemention of tube logic can be problematic or > unreliable, at least in the way the ABC tried to implement both NAND and NOR > gates with resistive input circuitry. > > Atanasoff makes it sounds easy in his paper, but if one reads it closely > it's not quite so, at least as measured by modern standards where one comes > up with a gate design and then simply repeats it ad infinitum. After reviewing the ASM circuit on your web page, it became readily apparent to me that it would likely be a major challenge to fill in the blanks for those missing resistor values and end up with something that actually worked reliably. > The ABC reconstruction and the original required (at least some) hand-picked > resistors in the gate circuits. I bought the excellent book ?The First Computers ? History and Architectures? mainly because of its content on Konrad Zuse?s relay-based machines. However, in its included paper on the reproduction of the ABC, the authors state: ?In building add-subtract modules, we found the circuits very demanding of precise resistor values. We have evidence that Berry hand-selected resistors from bins until he found ones that worked, and we attempted the same tactic. In measuring the characteristics of 10% resistors, we discovered the distribution about the nominal value shown in Fig. 3. (It?s a graph of a bell curve between -10% and 10% with a big notch in the center of the curve). Apparently, the manufacturer had already segregated the resistors close to nominal value. Hence, we found it necessary to use 1% tolerance resistors.? So, here?s a 14 gate, multistage, direct coupled vacuum tube circuit that apparently requires various hand-selected values of 1% resistors to work properly. Whew!!! I think I?m going to start with something a great deal simpler, like a single flip flop or astable multivibrator using an inexpensive 9-pin miniature dual triode at low voltages to see if I can even get that to work. > Some of the issues: > > 1. Tubes can be insufficiently non-linear. Driving between saturation and cutoff >? can take a bit of swing and saturation is soft (curved). > > 2. Plate circuit impedance is high. If the difference between the plate circuit > impedance (lower better) and the grid circuit impedance (higher better) is > ? ? insufficient, then different fan-outs in the logic circuit (loading), and > ? ? varying tube/component characteristics, can pull the logic levels away from > ? ? the design targets and upset everything. > > Going to the low plate voltage is a nice idea from a practical view but I > wonder if it may compound issues of point 2 above. It will reduce the voltage > shift between the plate and grid circuits that needs to be accomplished, but it > may also reduce the voltage swing between the 0/1 logic levels. How it works > out in the balance will be interesting. Thanks for that info and it will be interesting indeed to see if this will work. I was surprised to find nothing on low voltage tube logic when there?s so much on the web about low-voltage tube audio circuits of all kinds. True, tube logic is a fairly esoteric subject with no usefulness beyond that of a novelty, but with all of the audio low voltage stuff, I?d expected some tube enthusiast somewhere to have already done something on the logic side just for the heck of it. > Straying completely away from technical issues, and I'm somewhat loath to > mention this, but the animosity engendered by the early-70s court battle > continues decades later. The somewhat nasty inter-personal battle > found it's way into the Amazon book reviews as recently as 2004. > Another bizarre twist in the ENIAC patent saga on the legal/social side. Yes, I saw that when I went to look at the Amazon entry for Burks' "The First Electronic Computer." Wow, it?s a long-time, knock-down feud for certain. Bill

15 years, 7 months

govliq: 12 HP 7907A disk drives (Ogden, UT)

by legalize＠xmission.com

LOT (20) DISK DRIVES TO INCLUDE: (12) HP 7907A DISK DRIVE UNIT LR28576 (1) MEGA DRIVE ENTERPRISE 8 FIXED/ REMOVABLE DISK DRIVE UNIT (7) PANASONIC KXL-RW21A PORTABLE CD-R/ RW DRIVE FOR USB INTERFACE 6X WRITE/ 4X REWRITE SPEED <http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=1903614&convertTo=USD> As before, if anyone wants these, I'm willing to pick them up from govliq and help you with packing and shipping. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

15 years, 7 months

Stuff to get rid of in Bakersfield California

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I have too much crap in my storage units and I need to get rid of one. I thought I'd be able to sell off this stuff on ebay, but I don't think I have the drive to deal with the volume I've amassed. The highlights here are a Macintosh SE, a Northstar Horizon (missing the lid), several 8-inch floppy drives, assorted S100 cards, and lots of documentation. I need to get rid of this stuff in a week and a half. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

15 years, 7 months

Free Linux and OpenOffice - even if your email address doesn't

by tonym＠compusource.net

-----Original Message----- >From: Tony Duell ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk >Sent 8/31/2008 2:07:39 PM >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Free Linux and OpenOffice - even if your email address doesn't > > We run HP, IBM, Sun, Cisco, and Dell hardware, and I > hardly see > ANY of them giving out schematics. > > I doubt Tony has any DELLs, but I'm fairly sure he has some > HP kit ... an HP Laserjet iirc. > >Actually, I have a _lot_ of HP computers, going right back to their first >desktop computer, the Model 30 calculator (HP9830). I have HP calculators >older than that, of course. > >Heck I use an HP handheld calculator all the time. And yes, I have >schematics. Yes, I have the ROM sources. It doesn't bother me that the >latter are often stamped 'NOMAS -- Not Manufacturer Supported -- >Recipient agrees not to contact the manufacturer' I am quite capable of >reading and understanding them on my own. > > > You'll note he said _he_ wouldn't use anything he couldn't > support himself. He's not saying that you should use the > same approach in the office ... that's not where the important > stuff lives! > >_Escatly_.. > >Let's go back to the comment that started this debate. I make no secret >of the fact that I run linux. I considered what was important _to me_ in >an OS : availability of the source code -- not necessarily open-source, a >source license I could afford would be acceptable; the fact that I prefer >a good CLI to a GUI; that it would run the software I need (a C compiler, >TeX/LaTeX, etc) and so on. And I concluded that linux was the best choice >_for me_ so that's what I run. > >Now, I don't think it's the best choice for everyone. Other people have >different requirements and desires, they end up with a different OS that >suits their needs. So? Waht's the problem? > >IT's the same with many other things. I don;'t suppose many people, >buying a new car, would have the same requirement top-of-the-list as my >father did recently. Namely that the official workshop manual had to be >available. But it was important to us. > >-tony The whole debate started, when I simply notified the list, that anyone who ran Windows, and was in school, or knew someone in school, and had an .edu email address, could get an academic copy of Office 2007 Ultimate for $60. After that, all the Linux/Open-Source bigots came out decrying it. OpenOffice was menetioned as being the be-all end-all and being free, and I promptly downloaded it, installed it, and it wouldn't even open 1/3 of the work my wife did last semester. Now, does that mean it sucks? No. Did I say it sucked? No. But the Zealots took it as such, and kept going from there. I never said you couldn't use Linux+OO in school - I am sure MILLIONS already do. I just made the point that it was NOT the right solution for my wife. She is not exactly, um, computer saavy, and has no desire to be, so for my situation, I saw it best to give here Windows+Office, because working 10-12 hours at the office, and then 4 more VPN'd from home, I REALLY didn't want to add to my load... But the bigots INSISTED... I am in TOTAL agreement with what you say - we run many environments at work, and there are MANY instances where Linux is the ideal solution. We currently have about, oh, let's say 12-18 Linux servers at work, (2) of which are hosting semi-large Oracle databases, on the order of about 40GB, and running on HP Proliant DL380 G3's or G4's (depending on age) and either (6) 72GB or 146GB drives in RAID5, again depending on age. They run fine, work fine, kick the SNOT out of equivalent Windows boxes hosting Oracle, and as you pointed out,I have NEVER had a virus/malware/trojan issue to speak of. And we all know that is NOT the case with Windows boxen! As to TCO, well I don't know what you're getting at, as I just pay yearly fees for the M$ True-Up, and the eTrust AV. Comes up to about $785/year for both. Now, workstations are a bit more, and btw, all ours are NOT the same, depending on age, and the property they are at. I still have Compaq Deskpro EN (P3/800-1000) in the enterprise, HP Workstations, multiple versions of Dell SX and GX-series machines, And Dell/IBM Laptops (mostly Dell Latitudes now, D600/D610/D620/D630, as most TPads have been retired). And most times, I don't get a parts-swapping droid when we call HP/IBM/DELL - we usually get overnighted the bad part, so it's back up and running the next day, assuming next day service on that machine, and assuming not the weekend. The only exceptions are the servers, which come with a 3YR warranty, and we pick up the next day, 24x7 support on those. As I said...my first introduction to free *nix was 386BSD in about '94 or so, followed by Linux, although it was still 2 floppies, and then to FreeBSD, which was the next progression of 386BSD - played a little with Minix, but it was a bit closed-in for me - Linux was gathering steam, and developers were getting strongly behind it, which is when I switched over from *BSD to Linux. Things were happening REALLY fast in the Linux world, and were slowing down in *BSD. And then they started the whole *BSD split-offs I figured it was time to switch over for real. Heck, I think I still have quite a few of the older media around, back when Linux was the "In thing" and was being sold retail in Best Buy / Circuit City / etc.. I CLEARLY remember, before affordable WiFi days, the copy of Corel Linux I bought retail, was about the ONLY operating system, that out-of-the-box, would properly run with those RayCom 2MBit wireless cards. Not Windows, and not other Linux distros - I'm talking OOB, here. And I remember loading that on an HP OmniBook of some sort, Pentium 200 or so, as I recall... ps - forgive the formatting, as this is through my Webmail because my work XP laptop is, surprise, running malware / trojan cleaning apps. Tony

15 years, 8 months

Wanted: System V Release 4 (Intel) OS

by pitlog＠gmail.com

Hi, I've been looking for a set of floppies or better yet, a 150MB QIC tape for SVR4 for the 486 platform. Not having much luck to date, which surprises me. I would have thought there would be plenty of these laying around. I need one with SCSI drivers, and I also need the development system. Willing to pay a reasonable amount. Thanks, Tom

15 years, 8 months

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test-drb August 2008