> thought that 6120's just _weren't available_
I've purchased 6120 chips several times since introducing the SBC6120;
it's never been a problem to get them. There are old IC jobbers out there
that will find anything, for a price. The problem has always been that the
minimum order is 50-100 pieces and several thousands of dollars.
And please, don't everybody start calling old IC jobbers asking for 6120
chips now. A) They won't sell you just one, and b) you'll just make 'em
think 6120 chips are valuable and the prices will go even higher.
Bob
>Are you saying that using a PC for a terminal is required for this board???
An ASCII RS-232 terminal is required, yes. Use any kind you like; it
doesn't have to be a PC.
Bob
Hi,
I have several (different) MO drives -- including
a small jukebox.
But, it seems that most OS's don't have support
for them -- usually the BLOCKSIZE != 512 issue
is the killer.
Amusingly, *Windows* seems to talk to all of them
(but that is my last choice!). I believe Linux
will, as well (but I don't want to run Linux).
[I think I would prefer to get them running
under Solaris or NetBSD]
So, given that these devices have been around for
ages, what was talking to them?
Thanks,
--don
Tony Duell wrote:
How can you possiibly tell me what I enjoy and what I don't? If you don't
like gabbing a soldering iron and 'scope and diving into the logic fine, but
don't try to critisse those of us who do.
-tony
-----------------------------------------------------
Tony, I am not telling you what you enjoy or don't. I was simply commenting
on your many many statements that troubleshooting to a component level is
your belief in the right way to do things. If you feel I was criticizing,
then I apologize for my comments. I was merely saying that I don't
understand why you can't do both: fix old time computers and be intimate
with the latest and greatest. Both are fun. If you are interested in only
one aspect of the hobby, more power to you. It's your life.
As for my likes, yes I use a soldering iron and oscilloscope every day. As
play, I also design using TTL and linear, though usually with a wire wrap
gun instead of solder. For example, I spent last weekend repairing a batch
of HP180 oscilloscopes that had sat in the garage for 20 years.
As far as I know, I have the oldest working computer on this list - built in
1962. Several list members have seen it in operation. Al K is busy
archiving the software and manuals for the benefit of the list. But I also
love my G4's and have ordered a Quad G5. I use a laptop constantly, and see
nothing wrong with playing with the latest offerings from Microsoft. It's
all a big game. Why not play with the entire genre?
Billy
Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"
> >John Allain wrote:
> >>Personally, I don't think continuous duty at all
for anything >10y-o.
>> I do my best work on my IBM 5160; it has gotten
continuous use for
>> nearly two decades.
> My DEC PWS 433au is right at about 10 years and gets
continuous use.
>The idea is if it dies, and nobody can get another,
then you are the one who killed it.
>There are counterarguments I guess, like that CRTs
>and electrolytics need at
>least some periodic duty to keep them up, but for me
>that's actually about 1
>week a year, hardly continuous.
>John A.
Is there a statute against murdering classic puters?
Well there should be! 25 TO LIFE!! LOL LOL LOL.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Dear Friends,
I am a new member to the CCList but have long been a user and
collector of classic computers. At present, I am trying to find a
home for a Digital Equipment Corporation VAX 8700, sporting one
high-density (6250 BPI) tape drive and three disk drives, along with
the the desktop console unit without display. I will be happy
off-list to provide details to the board level on the CPU and, of
course, the model numbers of the peripherals, to anyone interested in
acquiring the system at NO COST save the expense of shipping (or, if
you pick the system up yourself, just the cost of renting the van and
driving to and from Whitewater, WI, to pick it up). The system was
in operation until decommissioned in the early 1990's and is missing
only the "under-the-floor" power interconnect module.
McIntyre Computer Exchange in Michigan has expressed an interest
in acquiring this unit, but I would rather put it in the hands of
collectors who would want to keep it out of a landfill. Please write
back directly to me off-list if you are interested.
Yours, cordially,
Paul Rybski
--
________________________________________
Paul M. Rybski, Ph.D.
Associate Professor and Chair, Dept. of Physics, and
Director, Whitewater Observatory
Goodhue 320
University of WI-Whitewater
Whitewater, WI 53190-1790
Office FAX: (262) 472-5633
Email address: rybskip at uww.edu
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled,
but a fire to be ignited." Plutarch
"He bid them look at the sky and lift their faces
to the stars." Ovid
"To develop the genuine understanding of concepts and theories that
underlie [declarative] knowledge, the college student, no less than
the elementary school child, must engage in deductive and inductive
mental activity coupled with interpretation of personal observation
and experience. Unfortunately, such activity is rarely induced in
passive listeners; but it can be nurtured, developed, and enhanced
in the majority of students, providing it is experientially rooted
and not too rapidly paced, and providing the mind of the learner is
actively engaged."
Arnold Arons (1983)
Does anyone recognize a Z80 assember that would produce listings with
this header on the top of each page:
"LOC OBJ CODE M STMT SOURCE STATEMENT"
The listing in this document I found online matches the source code
format and listing format of the assembler I'm looking for:
http://www.lc80.de/download/lc80-monitor_rom.pdf
I don't just want to assemble some Z80 code, I can find plenty of
assemblers to do that. I want to find one that I can use to exactly
recreate a hardcopy listing of some particular Z80 code without any
changes to the source code format and output listing format.
I'm still trying to hack together a HSD05AA SBB into my VAX 4200 (I know there are better ways to do this, but my budget is about
$20 so getting a SCSI-equipped VAX or DSSI cables are somewhat out of the question).
2 questions:
(1) in the HD50 -> MR cable (BC29R), is it wired 1-1, 2-2 . . . 50-50 ?
(2) Will the StorageWorks stuff operate with a "faked" backplane consisting of power + SCSI signals? I took apart a SBB sled to check the
pinout, and it has some species of PAL in there, not sure how that interfaces with things.
Tony duell wrote:
This is about as sensible as saying that 'pianos and guitars are musical
instruments, if you enjoy playing one you _must_ necessarily enjoy the
other'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy: I don't think I used the word "must" in my comments. But certainly
many musicians enjoying playing both, my youngest daughter included. And I
was talking about using, playing with, understanding, etc. I like a good
tear down as much as the next guy. In fact, this discussion has prodded me
into doing something I've put off for a long time - strip some PCBs I found
with 8ns CMOS static RAMs, 128Kx8. They are surface mount and the small
geometries are a real challenge for my twisted fingers and bifocal eyes.
But I have a project that needs fast memory and the weekend is free.)
Last weekend was at the TRW flea market. Anybody else on the list from the
LA/OC area? Let me know. Maybe we can meet up at the next one. (I scored
a Microtek 9600XL scanner for $40. I've been looking for a wide bed scanner
for months and saw this one on the way out. Put it on an old G4 running OS
8.6 and it came right up. Slow as hell though - you can literally go make a
cup of coffee while it does a full 12"x17" scan. But it will be ideal to
copy a lot of the old A3 size manuals.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Duell: To be honest, I am not a 'computer person'. I don't much enjoy
programming. I'm an electronics/mechanical person. I like tinkering with
hardware, but it computers, radios, cameras, clocks, whatever. So I could
turn your statement round and say 'Well, you enjoy working on your 1962
mainframe, why don't you strip down an M-series Leica. It's all machinery
after all'
-tony
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy: A big difference between us then. I have loved computers since my
very first one, an IBM 650 in 1958. In the Army, I did some mortar tracking
computers so had to work with analogue computers as well as digital.
Programming is like doing puzzles: a little is a lot of fun but a lot is no
fun at all.
Strip a Leica? Well if I can find a cheap one, I might do it. I have done
dozens of MP3 players in the last year, and a Canon and JVC camcorder.
Though it is not so much a tear down as reverse engineering. If the Leica
uses a 1" drive, then I'll definitely put it on the list. Cameras are fun -
I get to buy new tools to work on them.
I like machinery less than computers but still putz around. That's partly
why I specialized in peripherals for the last 30 years. Besides, the super
computers were dying and the minis just weren't as much fun.
But even peripherals can be too much mechanical for me sometimes. Anyone on
the list ever work on an IBM-1311 or CDC 807/808 or CDC 813/814? All of
these featured hydraulic actuators. A face full of warm pressurized
hydraulic fluid is enough to convince even the most die hard GOM that
electronics has advantages. (GOM is how they used to refer to us peripheral
types - Greasy Ol' Mechanics.)
If you like electro-mechanical, then perhaps you share another interest:
Meccano. I always liked Erector sets until I saw my first Meccano set. I
realized then that the US sets were shoddy wanabees. I've been a collector
and user of Meccano since the early 70's, when I first met them. There's
still a #10 set in the hall closet, though it is probably incomplete now.
At the Museum where Al K. works is a beautiful Babbage Difference Engine
built out of Red/Green Meccano. It's a gorgeous piece of machinery - works
of course. I wish I had that much ambition and skill.
Anyone on the list seen it (besides Al)?
Billy
